Guild Wars 2

NevirSayDie.6235:

Of course, the patch notes said base damage had been increased, which turned out to not be true. This was a bug fix patch, though, and a base damage increase is nothing but a gigantic buff. If that’s coming at all, it will be in the Feb/Mar balance update.

tl;dr—engineers are about 1/3 fixed and we’re already becoming a force to be reckoned with. Thanks for the progress, devs—keep it coming!

What kind of reasoning is this?
Surely, if something is in the patch notes, it should be in the game as well…

You’re going out of your way to find an excuse for the devs here.

If the idea was to implement this later in februari or march, than it should NOT be in the patch notes of januari!

If something is in the patch notes, and it doesn’t work EXACTLY as described when the patch is live, than it is officially a bug.
No other way around it.

It’s in the notes, it must be in the game.
All else is excuses…

•Fixed a bug that could cause rectangular skills to fail to hit the correct targets.

could this be a flamethrower? Or what exactly is considered a ‘rectangular’ attack?

ok, now that was funny…
Oh, and you might need help, or therapy, or something to do with your time.
But it was funny, it really was

I’m against this suggestion for one reason only:

cooldown!

Currently kits have no cooldown on swapping, or 1 sec at most.
This means I can swap from one ability to the other like crazy.

The moment kits become ‘weapons’ they will almost certain also inherit the standard weapon swap cooldown.
I don’t want this. More: it would utterly ruin my engineer for me.

Kits need better scaling, and a LOT of fixes… but that doesn’t mean I would solve this by making them ‘weapons’.

I would simply let Juggernaut trait work on Elixir Gun as well, instead of only Flamethrower.
The 6 stacks of might baseline would make up for any low damage…

And to get really crazy: why not let EG #4 have either an imobilize so the damage hits.
Or: even stronger option: let the jump break immobilize, even stun…
Not a single kit has a stun breaker after all.

The dev’s were very vague about the whole aoe nerfing business… so it’s simply too soon to tell.

To answer your question: no one knows, maybe not even the devs yet…

That would be very nice indeed.
The packs get on my nerves sometimes, and other times they seem fitting. So a toggle would be a simple solution.

since the last patch it works yes.
Before it didn’t.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Elixir Gun’s ultimate trait is Kit Refinement. Dual Super Elixirs is just plain awesome. Trait for healing power and you heal about 10k hp in 10 seconds, AoE.

Hard to pass that up if you want support.

Kit refinement is a trait for all kits, about the only decent one we have that works on all.
By no means was it designed to be stronger for Elixir Gun than for other kits.

And 10 k in 10 seconds? before the ‘fix’ perhaps. Now it does nowhere near that.
With zero healing power I think it heals about 175 per tick or something, and healing power scales baaaad.
So even when doubled up with Kit Refinement I doubt you reach 1k per second.
And if you do, you have sacrificed ALL versatility for healing, you can’t have any damage left.

But this aside, my main point is: a wonderfull trait like Kit Refinement is not enough to say it’s the EG’s ‘ultimate’ trait, sorry.
There has to be something more, like Grenadier, Elixir-Infused Bombs and indeed Juggernaut.

How long do you wait?
These overcharge abilities of turrets have a sloooow ‘loading’ time before the ability is active.

Might be that.

Choops.3710:

Tool Kit might be a little OP, but I agree, I see no reason why it should’t work with EG, after all, FT and EG share the same trait line.

the problem with Tool Kit is that the dev’s made it clear they found many bunker builds too strong.
Not that engineers are the strongest bunkers, but I’m sure that would be the first thing that crosses their mind: Tank Cat + Juggernaut = nogo.

Januari 28 th, another big patch in februari at the maximum.
That’s about as long as I intend to wait for significant fixes and changes.

They already said they would be focusing on bugfixes, so now’s the time (months late).
I just hope it’s not going to be another list of silly stuff coupled to mostly promises…

I’m not only waiting on engineer fixes by the way, this is also where they might introduce new pvp modes and WvW updates.

It better be…

The biggest problem is that we don’t have real versatility either…

Every decent engineer build should be able to do at least 2 or 3 different aspects of the game very well, without being the best at it.
But the simple combination of fullfilling different roles should make us very strong. Without swapping traits, gear or anything, or even leaving combat.

If our damage is nerfed because of versatility, than our defenses should work on more than ‘only’ elixirs or ‘only’ this or that kit.
Our healing across the board should be stronger, our support should be more reliable without random procs and weak effects on long cooldowns.

Currently engineers pay a price for more than just damage: we pay a price in healing or support too, compared to what other professions can do.
This is wrong: if damage is lower, we should shine at all else ALL THE TIME. That is true versatility in this game.

Engineers should be the ones that do the lowest damage of the group, but it’s them that kept the others alive, tanked the boss, kited the adds and cleared all conditions and nasty effects more than any other in the group.
They swapped from melee to aoe and back in a split second, and helped getting the targets down everywhere without ever topping any ‘meter’.

The current engineer is the one doing the weaker healing, the unreliable support and the poor damage.
And to do either of these decent, he had to dedicate his entire build and traits for that one singular role!

Every decent engineer build is extremely single purpose, not any of the good builds is the least bit more versatile than other professions!
What’s going on dev’s?

It worries me that most engineers have already excepted that the FT has low damage unless you do all sorts of things to stack might with it.

This is supposed to be a workaround untill the damage gets adjusted and fixed, not ‘the only way to use the Flamethrower’.

It takes away all versatility in a Flamethrower build, just to get those might stacks.
The fact that the dev’s design the engineer like that while still claiming engineer damage is low because of this non-existing versatility, really worries me.

The option of static discharge is at least something else than might stacking. It opens a bit more options for versatility at least. Not sure if I would call it a real ‘versatile’ build though. Not that it has to be… but it points at the flaw in the reasoning of the devs.

If we have to pull tricks to make the Flamethrower damage good, than that build should also be extremely versatile.
If it’s not versatile, than why didn’t it get good damage without those tricks in the first place?

This is an unlikely and unrealistic suggestion, in the sense that it will probably never happen.
Still I would like to propose it, because to me, it does make sense!

Let the Trait Juggernaut work on more kits than just the Flamethrower.

1. First obvious candidate is the Elixir Gun.
We have 2 important traits working on BOTH Flamethrower as Elixir Gun (25% cd reduction, 15% more damage)
And suddenly Juggernaut only works on Flamethrower? So where is the ’ultimate ’trait for Elixir Gun?

EG could use the boost of 6 or 7 might stacks in terms of damage, it really could.
Especially since the trait for 15% more damage works on white damage (power based) while EG mostly uses… condition damage. Which is NOT boosted by the 15% trait it seems.

Also: EG is a support kit, having some extra protection by means of 200 toughness wouldn’t be overkill.

2. Another slightly less obvious candidate is the Tool Kit.
It’s a tanking, defensive, melee kit that hits on power… so why not add 200 toughness and a few might stacks?
Or would that be to logical?

3. Med Kit is used when in trouble, the 200 toughness could help there, but I don’t see it as obvious as the EG or TK.

4. Bombs can be traited to heal so they don’t deserve another Grandmaster Trait probably.
Grenades were deemed to be too strong, so no way they are getting 6 stacks of might added
Let alone 200 toughness for a ranged kit.

So my suggestion:
Let Juggernaut work for Elixir Gun, and perhaps also for Tool Kit.

Vellius.7912:

Well, she could have used Elixir-S, then also had the trait: Self-Regulating Defenses, and finally been using Vampirism Rune set (basically gives you Mist Form at like 10%-25% hp). I “think” that they are all the same buff and probably stack in duration.

That would be Elixir-S (x2), and Mist Form= ~10 seconds?

Its something you could look into in the sPvP zone, though.

theoretically yes, but if I read the OP I gather all these options had been covered already…

Most likely the immune to condition damage below 25%, seems cleared now.
Especially since he was using mostly condition damage on the ‘immune’ target.

By the way: other channeled abilities can be used the same.
Like simple flamethrower #1 or the already mentioned Prybar, they won’t interrupt either. The BIG difference is of course that the Static Shield is a block and makes sense to combine with all these abilities.
Not every other channeled ability has good uses like that.

Did I simply miss it, or did you leave out Stomp?

As an Asura Elixir S bugs the crap out of me, so I see my static shield as a poor man’s Elixir S…

But I’ll admit most of the time I get the timing all wrong.
Much has to do with the fact big WvW fights tend to bug out and lag a bit. And that’s where I use the shield the most.
Guess I’ll have to practice in Orr a bit more on that

What’s there to nerf about Kit Refinement?
The fact that it’s one of the rare engineer traits that is actually… versatile?

CriSPeH.8512:

Kimbald.2697:

SD should target your target, and jump from there… always.
And if no target: pick nearest enemy and jump from that one instead.

I really can not understand the reasoning behind letting the lightning ‘act’ like the spell that procs it.
Totally uncalled for.

My guess would be they didn’t intend for it to be that way but its more a consequence of lazy implementation. Like instead of adding a separate Lightning atk they just tacked on an extra effect to skills.

sad, but most likely true…

same here: on my Asura it basically means I never use Elixir S, not even the traited proc one…

Incredibly annoying!

I would actually hate the fact that we need yet ANOTHER trait to make pistols good…
This would make the trait almost mandatory for pistols again.

Fully traited, a pistol still has less range, less direct damage and less utility than untraited rifle. If compared to fully traited rifle, it’s far worse.

Pistol traits are weak as they are. Even coated bullets should increase the range at least.

Don’t get me wrong: I do welcome traits working on different levels instead of ‘just’ this or that kit, this or that damage ability.
In that regard, the suggestion is good.

But far better for me would be to:
- improve pistols untraited
- improve the existing pistols trait

Sporadicus.1028:

(Note: You might wanna read this aloud in the voice of the most awesome MONSTER TRUCK ADVERTISEMENT ANNOUNCER!!!!)

If you’re a Charr, you could be a 4-kit engie and wield an awesome CHARRZOOKA!

You’d have your stun-break getaway ability and be able to shoot out MONSTER ROCKETS OF DOOM!

Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Watch as you ’nade them into submission then humiliate them with a SUPER ROCKET BARRAGE!

Seriously, the only thing devs can do to make the Charrzooka more awesome is to substitute one of the attacks (not sure which one) with a baseball swinging CHARRZOOKA TO THE FACE!!!

So. . . . end the announcer talk . . . Charrzooka anyone?

the one and only reason I’m considering making a flee bugged furry coated engineer…

SD should target your target, and jump from there… always.
And if no target: pick nearest enemy and jump from that one instead.

I really can not understand the reasoning behind letting the lightning ‘act’ like the spell that procs it.
Totally uncalled for.

Ok, looks like you’re having fun

I’m on Piken too and mainly doing WvW, I’ll come looking for you some day, just to find another engineer goofing around…

I’m using a form of what you call ‘the Troll’ build.
Because elixir S is glitchy for me, I often use EG or FT instead of that.
So med-kit; Bombs; Tool Kit and EG or FT.
Bit different traits though.

as a small asura, elixir S bugs out for me.
It’s terribly annoying to use it. My character sort of glitches and I barely can do anything smoothly.

Kit refinement procs when stunned, simply because you can swap kits when stunned.
This and the use of Flamethrower #5 blind when stunned, is what I see as my ‘poor man’s stunbreaker’ when using 4 kits.

I often use the odd runes of Grenth with that: swap to med kit and get an aoe chill proc, than swap to other kits for kit refinement procs:
- cripple – bleed them since I always use Tool Kit
- put down a weak bomb or a fire aoe and try to use FT #5
- aoe heal yourself and remove conditions if you swap to Elixir Gun

And use some defensive swapping sigil if you can spare it. Like another chill or something.
The kit swapping counts as weapon swap, so you’ll get at least 1 proc of the sigil (most have 10 ssec cooldown).

It’s not a bullet proof strategy, but it does save you to some extend.

My current set-up
- Med Kit
- Tool Kit
- Bomb Kit
- Flamethrower OR Elixir Gun

Chickenshoes.6250:

nevirsay has it all right on everything.

I would like to re-iterate that flamethrower is junk. I found the secret to always making it hit. You’re supposed to hold the camera button in the direction you want to shoot while walking around. The flame particles themselves are complete nonsense for show. That doesn’t make the flamer worth it though For less effort you could just work on turning your rifle into a bullet hose ’cuz it has better range.

I would just like to help clarify what the kit refinement actually does (although I never take it over speedy kits. Where isn’t permanent sprint useful?)

Toolkit kit refinement is totally useful. Look at your box of nails skill, try it once or twice on some mobs. It’s a stacking AoE cripple kitten Kit-refinement on toolkit means you spam nails everywhere you go (10 second cooldown.) Anything that’s had 2 boxes of nails under them isn’t going anywhere fast. Very useful in PvP.

Med-kit refinement just makes a loud, weak blast with no radius. You can spam it for some flashy effects, but it isn’t going to help you with anything.

Flametrower kit-refinement has a “fireblast.” It’s a weak burn over an insultingly small radius, but what I’ve found is that it also cleans a condition off of you.

Bomb-kit drops a bomb. What else is there to say?

Grenades drop a barrage of grenades around you, and Elixir Gun drop a Super Elixir that cures a condition and stacks healing with everything else that heals at the moment (even itself if you use #5 for the real Super Elixir).
EG Super Elixir is probably one of the most usefull procs from Kit Refinement.

to add to this:

You can swap kits when stunned, this also means kit refinement is working…

So when stunned you can swap eny kit you have and get every Kit refinement proc.
Usefull combo’s:
-Tool kit and cripple the one near you
- Elixir Gun and clear a condition and get minor healing going. EG tool belt regen is usable when stunned too if I’m not mistaken.
- Flamethrower and aoe him slightly, and even more usefull: hit #5 for blind wich can be used while stunned too!
- Bomb or grenade and hit with some aoe again.

Kit Refinement is extremely usefull if you’re running without a stunbreaker!

aydenunited.5729:

Terrahero.9358:

mifbifgiggle.6713:

probably 1v1s. get the right build and you simply won’t lose.

Funny, thats what some Eles say. And Necro’s. And Mesmers. And Guardians. And Thieves. And Rangers. And Warriors.

We cant all not lose. And with the distinct lack of proper damage, weaker support, lack of Stability, i dont think its the Engineer.
A necro would tear you a few new ones without a doubt. Making your damage even worst, and denying you all your boons.

We have just as much “do not die” ability than any other profession. 2 second reflect + 3 second block + 3 second block +3 second invulnerable + 3 second invulnerable at 25% life + utility heal off of CD at 25% life + 4-6 dodges in a row if spec’d the right way, Elixir R to rez yourself even if you don’t make it through the first two minutes of fighting.

Now say, vs. 1v2 and 1v3, other professions do better at us weathering several attackers, but 1v1, we’re in the same boat as anyone else.

so we have:
-shield and pistol
- tool kit
- traits in alchemy
- traits in tools
- traits in inventions
- elixir S
- elixir R

sure, you’ll live.
But what are you killing in this imaginary build?
1 v 1 is still about killing the other too…

This touches upon the real issue with engineers: we can not be versatile, we always build for one thing or another. In your example it’s a build for bunkering, tanking. It has no damage left that is competetive at all. Not with what you are listing.

All of these are available in spvp.
So go to the Mists, equip what you want to test and either jump down from a height or go attack a profession npc.

If you filter out what you use at any given time, it’s easy to see the green numbers of Dolyak, Backpack Regeneration, elixir-infused bombs, any given boon etc…

Short answer: as mentioned, they stack

Trying out variations of the Tankcat, but I guess I been doing that forever since I have always use the Toolkit and a more defensive build.

It’s nice to see a fun build like this that is actually more defensive in basis. Most fun builds are based upon high damage first.
And I have to say the Tank cat has become more popular than expected. It’s a household engineer build for a while now. A good positive note among all the doom and gloom

start by checking out the Tankcat build. It’s based on Tool Kit with p/s and so on.
Might be something, it’s fun. The main thread on that shouldn’t be far down, page 1 or 2 here most likely. (Tankcat – prybar some faces…)

Of course there is also a sticky with builds, defenitely worth checking out.

Very happy to read all these other playstyles, aside grenades.

Our guild is working on balling up in zerg vs zerg, and following the commander wherever he may dodge or run.

Grenades are extremely tricky to aim well in the midst of all that. They are more a thing to do from the sides or the back.
Using them in the middle works fine, but les so when you actually have to follow someone instead of going your own path.

Bombs with their combo fields and the knockback, perhaps even the healing, seem like a more workable kit to use in that rolling ball of guildies.

tip: go to Wiki, search pistols, bottom of the page: click ‘galery of pistols’.
Not all, but at least a lot of pictures there.

Other sites have galeries as well I’m sure.

Bit impossible to suggest something without having any clue about your taste or preferences.

I’ll give it a blind shot:

the pistol from the Order of Whispers looks pretty cool to me.

blurps.2340:

The big advantage of grenades is, that they’re equally useful in pretty much all ZvsZ situations. Some of the fancier builds like healing bombs aren’t of much use when you’re stuck on a wall defending a fortress for example. Even popular stuff like Tankcat could work fine for roaming groups looking to pick off stragglers or flip supply camps, but will not help with some of the things you’ll probably want to do quite regularly when running with the Zerg.

so much for versatility… right?

My biggest issue with grenades is that they are crap if not spending 30 points on grenadier. The 25 point vulnerability stacking is part of the issue as well.
Grenades without those 2 traits simply don’t do enough damage to warrant equipping at all!
How sad is that: if not spending 30 points on it, don’t equip the kit… what kind of reasoning is this for a kit??? Aren’t these supposed to be options?
They might as well remove grenades and make the grenadier trait open up the grenade kit entirely.
Leveling aside, grenades untraited are simply not done. Extremely NON-versatile design there.

I could settle for a healing bomb build, or Tankcat with sacrificing one slot to grenades.
I can NOT however create a build that spends 30 points on grenadier and still has enough traits to make the rest of the build work…

Preacher.9526:

When in a Zerg Im usually dropping nades on their front/mid lines. Pretty much the same for choke points and siege/siege defense.

Only time I really swap to Rifle is while roaming when I need some extra control. When in smaller battles I still stick with my nades… but im usually pegging them face to face.

I havent used the tool kit since changing over all my gear to maximize my deeps : / I did enjoy it when geared for a it more survivability.

This is what I reckon that most do.
But I can’t be sure of course, especially after the grenade nerf and the sigils coming into play.

Hence this post: to see what people actually do in zergs these days.
Still grenades mostly, or loads of other things as well?

Sporadicus.1028:

I would say toolkit is very helpful in ZvZ because you are one more person with a pull. Once you pull, you can hit them with Prybar and (if you use pistols) #3 static shot to add confusion to their current problems. You can also run in, toss your ranged attacks, and run out with a block to protect yourself.

I always have tool kit, even before it was buffed

But have you ever pulled someone who didn’t dodge the very moment.
I do pull- dodge to go with their dodge – prybar these days mostly.

I do feel this tactic requires something better than single target Tool Kit though, to make it worth using.

Good option at least.
And defenitely less boring than grenade spam.

Sporadicus.1028:

I never said there was a point to cycling through 3 kits. I would definitely not advise using 3 kits at all. You have no getaway skills to protect yourself.

For this very reason I’ve been suggesting to give our kits finally some stunbreakers and built-in blast finishers.

Engineers are supposed to be ‘versatile’ but we lose slots simply by needing stun breakers, boons or condition removal…
Neither kits nor turrets are good enough to fill those elements. And they should be…

Having only stunbreakers in elixirs and gadgets is not enough.
Gadgets are ‘fun’ but there simply isn’t real room for them in any build that is supposed to be versatile.

Silver Chopper.4506:

@ Sporadicus: – So the engie is the master of all spam? And what is the point of cycling through 3 kits to unload all the skills if they don’t do more damage per second than the warrior autoattack?

good point about the damage, we don’t do more damage by rotating.

We can sometimes do other things though:

for example going from Bomb #3 to Tool Kit #3 to pistol #3 will put up a lot of confusion just by rotating.
The issue here is: a build involving both bombs as tool kit, while using pistols… is likely to be a build that is missing several traits OR it has to be a bunker healing-bomb build and the confusuion will be weak anyhow…

You can find more examples of combo’s across kits and weapons, but each time you’ll hit some issues in either the build, the stats, or the effect simply being weaker than other’s simple skill spam.

What do you all prefer to do in zerg vs zerg fights?

It all depends on your own zerg of course. If you’re in a guild zerg, than you might focus on combo fields, or on support.
You might be the grenade spammer in the back, or the bomb-healer up front.
Maybe the glassy static discharge burster hitting the focus target, or the condition pistol shooter.

I have mostly used grenades with grenadier so far. Something about the range and the conditions like blind and chill, make this a very strong zerg option.

Pistols I’m not sure of. Fully traited they seem like a very good ranged option, but they seem underwhelming for all those points spend as well.

Anyhow: discuss what you prefer using in big zerg fights.
Organised or as random.

Would love to go in blasting flamethrower but come across major issues with it. Maybe others do this to more succes. Do tell!

One of the saving graces of tool belt skills is that they are always accessible, no matter what kit you equip.
Your suggestion would take that away, I’m afraid.

Your ‘solution’ for static discharge isn’t very workable. It would force people out of kit swapping, just like the loss of toolbelt skills would do.

Kits are mostly decent despite their flaws, because you can constantly swap.
Both your tool belt loss, as the static discharge change would work against swapping. You would have to micrimanage your tool belt skills even more.
I agree we need to make improvements, but I wouldn’t take this route to do it.

As for the general base of yuor suggestion:
do you really think we will be allowed to have the #1 -5 abilities of TWO sets at the same time?
Rifle PLUS flamethrower #1-5 at once?
Or any other weapon + kit combo?
Not going to happen I’m afraid.

Several condition damage traits rely on procs per crit.
If you have those in your build, the precision is pretty much needed or those traits are wasted.

Of course this doesn’t mean you can’t get your precision from jewelry of course.

Power is walways a good damage stat, even for pistols. But not better than precision if your build needs the crit procs.

Toughness versus vitality: not relevant to your damage, both have benefits and depend a bit on your entire build to see what would help you the most.
If you lack condition removal for example, than vitality can be good. If you lack stunbreaker, you might want higher toughness.
Not rules set in stone, at all.

Make your damage on precision versus power, and get toughness or vitality as it comes with either of these…

My guess, allthough I have not enough info on build and other gear: get precision – cond damage for p/p

RaynStargaze.6510:

Kimbald.2697:

Of course grenades have issues in pvp, I already mentioned they weren’t good for spvp.
In WvW however they are still godsend

stopped reading here..
WvW =/= pvp

where did I say it was?
You stopped reading because I mention WvW and you conclude for some reason that I say pvp = WvW?
I don’t say that… I simply say WvW does exist, just like pve for that matter, and that in those parts of the game grenades are still pretty usefull.

The very lines you quote show that I make a distinction between the two, and I find grenades usefull in one and weak in the other!

The fact that you only care for pvp (if that is the case) doesn’t mean you should try to insult me at every turn.
Get over yourself already.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Kimbaldthekitten.2697:

Personally I’m not waiting on even MORE reasons to use grenades over other skills…
They already have:
- highest damage of all kits (bombs might beat them but their range will make sure they don’t overall)
- longest reach of ANY engineer ability
- best aoe mechanic
- fastest vulnerability stacking we have acces to

grenades are terrile in pvp – dmg is a joke ( i can out damage grenade kit with rifle or Flamethrower even on non moving targets) – range is irrelevant due to flight duration + scatter – aoe is very small long range you wont hit 3/3 ever unless your target is huge even if you aim perfectly – ranger much better suited for vuln stacking in team fights cuz its basically instant

+ you need to waste 30 points in expl + 1 utility slot just to make them viable as a main weapon at all…

pve – no one gives a crap about kittenty gw2 pve

You actually bother to rewrite my nametag just to insult me over some opinion on grenades?
Dam, that’s pretty pathetic…

On topic:

you don’t care about pve? Fair enough, how is that relevant? Others do, i’m sure.

Of course grenades have issues in pvp, I already mentioned they weren’t good for spvp.
In WvW however they are still godsend against zergs and for sieges. And zergs and sieges still form the larger part of WvW, like it or not.

If your flamethrower outdamages grenades, than I assume you compare both fully traited.
Flamethrower has issues of it’s own. I really doubt flamethrower beats grenades as much as you claim.

Flamethrower needs even more than just 30 points and a utility slot to even compare. It needs at least 50 points and 1 grandmaster and 2 other traits dedicated to it.

Rifle #1 might do more than Grenades #1 now of course, but all other riffle options are more suited for close combat, not ranged.

I’m not saying grenades are all that great, in fact: I don’t like them at all.
But they still are the strongest kit we have in anything but spvp, sadly enough.

Damage aside, in which I agree on the poor state of several kit skills, I would suggest the following:

- FT #2 is now a blast finisher and explodes on impact (OR has a detonate function)

- FT #5 is a smoke field

- EG #4 is now a blast finisher too OR it immobilizes or criples at least.
alternative idea: EG #4 is now a stun breaker

- EG #1 pierces from Juggernaut trait. This would be so strong it makes the FT-EG combo an incredible base for a versatile build.

- EG #2 flies faster, and in a more direct line. Simple as that.

Bug fixes I don’t discuss, they should simply happen first.

I don’t want a nerf for grenades by the way, they are usefull as they are.
My biggest issue with them is that you have to specc 30 points for grenadier, before they become good.
Wich is harsh, since we have no other 1500 option, let alone another real aoe.
Grenades should be baseline almost as strong as they are now traited.
The difference now is HUGE!

Mostly I want significant buffs to the other kits to make them just as usefull in group settings. Adding blast finishers would be one way to to do that. Adding stun breakers to several kits would be another…

They should reduce almost every cooldown related to the turrets first.

The overcharge abilities have a too long cooldown, and what’s worse: they proc their effect on a way too long cooldown as well.
For example: who relies on the healing turret overcharge to remove conditions? Seriously: who relies on that?

The toolbelt skills often have a too long cooldown as well.

Reduce the cooldowns and you get more turret effects, which makes them more usefull.
And you get more fields because of that as well, because they would proc their overcharge effect on a faster rate as well.

Personally I’m not waiting on even MORE reasons to use grenades over other skills…
They already have:
- highest damage of all kits (bombs might beat them but their range will make sure they don’t overall)
- longest reach of ANY engineer ability
- best aoe mechanic
- fastest vulnerability stacking we have acces to

If you add ranged blast finishers to grenades, we are stuck with them forever, in any group build imaginable I fear. (GROUP is the key word here, in spvp smaller fights they would still not be optimal)

How about this:

make Flamethrower #2 a blast finisher?
make Elixir Gun #4 a blast finisher (like rocket boots is)

Giving grenades a blast finisher at 1500 range would make them obligatory in almost everything.

I’m totally against limiting kits to one

My engineer is build upon using kits for versatility.
But the suggestion of having kits in the utility slots, without tool belts (in the given system, NOT in the current one) would be a good compromise of course.