Guild Wars 2

Yamsandjams.3267:

Tharjax.9068:

Maybe I am missing something but to me it seems the descriptions in this game are very vague. Nowhere in the Airblast description does it say “Extends Burning for 2 seconds”

It says “Burning 2 sec (# Damage)” How is someone new suppose to automatically know what it actually means?

And that can also mean that I could be interpreting more things differently then they actually mean.

ArenaNet should offer an option that either turns on and off descriptive skills that say what each skill actually does. I for one cannot stand vagueness especially when you need to theory craft.

This has been a concern for quite awhile.

ArenaNet has stated that they want to spend the next update (or the one after the next) focusing a lot on tidying up tooltips, and making them more accurate and informative. There’s been some rather inaccurate, misleading, or non-sensical things around since launch, so hopefully they’ll follow through and clean a lot of them up.

I think part of the delay is that they’ve just been going through a tedious process of figuring out all the numbers they need to track so that the tooltips will properly reflect the necessary information.

So we’ll have to wait and see, but hopefully not too long.

This is the main practical point in all this theoretical nonsense.
Next patch won’t bring big changes, but it should indeed be a clean-up patch.
Let’s hope this will be one of the things they clean up.
Because let’s face it: that tooltip does suggest it gives a new 2 seconds of burning, while it doesn’t…

The main fear is: how much time can they spend on this clean-up? Because frankly: they have a ton of it to do.

nakoda.4213:

/shrug

people who don’t vote complain about politics too. i suppose this is no different.

/p

It is VERY different.

This is a commercially sold game.
We buy it.
In that game, by common game design, there are tooltips to explain what each button does.If the devs change an ability in that game, it is THEIR job to adjust the tooltip.
It is not our responsability to check if the tooltip is in fact still accurate.

You compare this to voting in a democracy?
You think this is the same as taking up political responsability?
You sincerely argue that it is the same principle to vote and be politically aware as it is to read old patch notes to see if any tooltip is wrong?

Seriously, step back a moment, put things in perspective.

This is both a commercial product, and an ‘honest’ product in the sense that we can trust that in-game information is actually correct about how things work in that game.

In politics their is no other guarantee than checking and double-checking sources, comparing opinions, hoping no information is held back.

How you can argue one is the same as the other is beyond me.
And mostly it shows me how you go way out of your way to defend something that is very simply… an oversight of the developpers.

Their is no ‘responsability’ a gamer should have to correct tooltips the developpers forgot to adjust, or simply wrote misleading.

Patch notes changed an ability? Good, now go and change the tooltip so your product is up to date again.
Plain and simple.

Voting? Democracy?
For real?
it’s a game… it has small bit of text about what the little gamy thingies do.

edit: I should add this:
Nakoda, I still respect your engineer skills a lot, and I don’t mind anyone disagreeing with me. But on this matter, you’re losing the perspective.
Taking up responsability is very important to me as well in life.
Just not when it comes to tooltips in a game I bought… than it’s their job to make them correct, not mine

Yamsandjams.3267:

Kamahl.3621:

MrForz.1953:

It’s funny, Rocket Boots gets you to do all of that, and even if it removed anything that affects your mobility, it will still be there to destroy your immense knockback and move 3 feet before the removal, and end up with Step 6.

Except then you’d be using rocket boots, and immediately feel really bad about your life choices.

Although gaining the ability to set people on fire by kicking them is better than some of my life choices…

the toolbelt of Rocket Boots is actually pretty darn good indeed.
It’s the self stun of the skill itself basically that seems the issue.
Remove that, and all the rest sorts itself out.

It’s the dev’s responsability to update the tooltips to the latest patchnotes… not the other way around for us to double check the tooltips with all the patchnotes there ever were.

I find the reasoning that it is ‘our responsability’ to compare tooltips to old patch notes extremely odd.

This is a computer game: you buy it, install it. You log in and you try to figure out how everything works IN THE GAME.
How? By reading tooltips for example.

Flame blast happens to be one of those tooltips that don’t cover what is said in the patchnotes.
This is not whining, it’s pointing at the fact that the people working on this game slipped up on this one.

If a patch note is not reflected in the game, the designers did it wrong… not us!

Nice idea.
An alternative would be to let EG#3 work on the caster as well… It’s not like that ability can’t do with a boost.
So it stays inside the kit, you need to swap, but at least you get an extra removal there.
Your suggestion is better, but maybe they don’t want another removal that can be used when not swapping to the actual kit.

Healing turret toolbelt could remove a condition as well on use. Would help a bit on the turrets dying fast when you need that condition removal.
Not to mention the overcharge has it’s own tricky timer.

To add to the current example of someone joining this game:

when you join a new game, you do NOT read old patchnotes to see what each button does.
You read the bloody tooltip!
That’s what it’s there for.

nakoda.4213:

apparently it does. anet does not have a good track record of QA control.

look, i get that it is frustrating, but at this point, the mewling is less productive than being level headed and recognizing anet’s patterns.

you still have the responsibility of keeping apprised of the patch notes, that is what they are there for. patch notes are not some monthly present from dad when he comes home from some business trip. they are the legal representation of what you can expect from this game as per your EULA, snapshots in time for investors and bean counters.

“Game content likely to change.” Patch noes are the most current game content, and the patches (and their respective notes) are cumulative, not independent from one another.

People have complained about this kittene for 14 years now and it still hasn’t changed, but what gets me is that people complain as though this is some new, jagged, deep bleeding wound of pestilent insult from the developers. it isn’t. you have not been harmed.

get over it.

Nakoda… in all fairness: a game like this should have clear tooltips.
it’s the product they deliver.

They have tooltips.
Tooltips are USELESS if not clear!
So it’s their job to make them clear.
If they are not clear, than they failed at delivering tooltips in the first place. Than they simply added some useless flavor text that helps nobody for real.

The fact that other games had poor tooltips as well, is no excuse for this company no to deliver a finished product. Because poor tooltips are just that: the lack of time invested in writing and updating them.

Smaller games may have issues following all the tooltips up, but a game with this revenue should have someone going over them each patch.

Your whole argument holds some ground, but the bottom line is: in a game this big a tooltip should be clear.
No ifs, buts or ands…

People have a right to point at the bad tooltips.
This company is too big to need you to jump in their defense for a what is a minor investment from their part.

shockwave.1764:

Kimbald.2697:

Shockwave what do you mean?

On detonate, the turret explodes and knocks enemies back.
So how else do you want it to effect the detonate?

I persoanlly think turrets should have this baseline and always knock back on detonation. but that’s another discussion.

As far as the trait goes: it does what it should do: kb on detonate…

It does? I just tested it on a dummy and when i detonated the turret it didn’t knock it back?

it works for me.

What dummy are you testing on? Often the dummies instantly port back to their circle.
Or the ‘dodge training dummies’ can’t be knocked back at all (or damaged…).
Just curious, since I tested it a minute before writing this, in the Mists too, and it works.

Shockwave what do you mean?

On detonate, the turret explodes and knocks enemies back.
So how else do you want it to effect the detonate?

I persoanlly think turrets should have this baseline and always knock back on detonation. but that’s another discussion.

As far as the trait goes: it does what it should do: kb on detonate…

the answer must lie in the other toolbelt skills.

If at 25% both your heal skills as your other toolbelt skills reset, than we can assume that both worked at the same.
This would mean that both are on cooldown from that point on, which would be the reason why you don’t get a new refresh next moment you get below 25%.

So when you tested this, how did your other toolbelt skills behave? Did they reset on the first time below 25% as well?

I should test it clearly myself, but often I have both traits in my build (0/30/20/0/20 as a bit of an odd build). I think I always had all skills reset: so both the med kit heals as the other toolbelt skills.
So from my memory I think both traits work at the very same moment, putting both on cooldown from there on.

tigirius.9014:

I find that most of the AOE’s on engineers are nerfed, it’s just weird it’s like the class that is supposed to have AOE’s to deal with multiple enemies efficiency is being artificially stumped by people who see it as perfectly fine that a warrior runs dungeons by himself.

What is this hate they have for this class I wonder because they certainly don’t treat it with respect.

I don’t even know if it’s nerfed as such.
I sincerely have no clue if Rocket Turret was aoe before.

My issue is that I read the tooltips and try to figure out what they mean.
Some say it was aoe before, ok fair enough. Than it got changed because I’m not seeing any aoe now.
Not in the Mists at least. I haven’t found mobs in pve that:
a. stand close enough to be in less than 120 range (240 is 120 to both sides…)
b. have no other effects on them so i can clearly see what hits them or not (so a WvW zerg isn’t good for that )

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

Those seem not unreasonable to ask for.

They are when you consider what other classes have. Elementalists have a skill very similar to what you’re looking for: Lightning Flash.

But Lightning Flash has a 45 second cooldown versus Rocket Boot’s 30, isn’t a Blast finisher, and doesn’t have a toolbelt skill that additionally burns targets for 5 seconds.

You have to be mindful that given everything else the Engineer has, Rocket Boots is a very effective escape tool.

Smoke Bomb -> Rocket Boots sends you back 900 range and puts you in stealth. It’s saved me many times in WvW.

I think it’s reasonable to request the removal of the knockdown in the skill, but asking that it’s a targeted skill is a bit much. We already have Jump Shot, which is probably one of the most ridiculous Leap skills in the game and literally breaks Jumping Puzzles.

I don’t ask for it to be targeted actually.

- no self stun seems not too much to ask for.
- I would like it to go forward instead of backward myself, but that’s personal preference and doesn’t change it’s effectiveness.
- and the bit about jumping higher changes nothing, except that it would fail less. Very often my jump only goes a very small distance. This coul help to avoid that. Technical fix, not making it ‘better’.

nakoda.4213:

target standing on X

overcharge rocket fires

a) target moves 239 from X; rocket hits. knockdown
or
b) target moves 241 from X; rocket misses.

R X——H——-H———H——H—-240 M M M … etc

maybe? speculation.

Yup, that would be my most likely guess.

Henge.3907:

I remember the overcharge hitting 2-3 enemies in close proximity. Havnt played him thatmuch since the 30th breaking the traits I use. 240 is not big at all. That’s 120 on each side of the target, which is a little less than the warriors rifle butt attack

glue bomb (Bomb Kit #5) is 240 radius too, untraited.
If I use that, I cripple the dummies around.
The Rocket turret however, does not…

Same spot, same radius, same dummies.
Even the exact same first target as I drop the Rocket Turret right on the dummy I’m standing inside of (Turrets seem to take closest target, no matter what you do…).
Glue bomb goes aoe, turret does not…

I think the main difference is this:

those other professions can escape with one button or a simple combo.
While engineers can only escape by using longer button combo’s.

Can we escape? Yes.
Can we do it as easy as ‘others’? No.

And in the end: as mentioned your chasers often have too many gap closers… they WILL catch up to you unless they simply stop bothering.

But in WvW that is the main mechanic of escaping: outrunning them till they stop bothering.
Think most ‘escapes’ boil down to that.
Engineers can do this, if we are good on the combo’s.

Tuomir.1830:

I like rocket boots, it’s an escape move that kicks in the instant you use it (even in air!). Sure, I get knocked down too, but having a second stun breaker is not so bad when you get tool belt skills for both. But, having it lift you just a bit higher would be nice, so that it would actually work uphill, too.

am I reading this correct?
A second stunbreaker just to deal with Rocket Boots itself?
Are you serious about this being even remotely ‘acceptable’?

I agree it should jump higher, but it simply should not knock you down. At all…
There is no reason for it. Gadgets are weak for reasons like this.

No self-knockdown.
Jump higher to avoid terrain.
Maybe jump forward (personal preference).

Those seem not unreasonable to ask for.

The most likely answer is indeed that the 240 radius is the margin the rocket can miss it’s target, but still knock that one target down.

Odd mechanic, if that is the case. But I can’t think of any other option indeed. Not while remaining sensible and logical about it.
But it’s the first time I see a tooltip actually having extra information just because the dam ability has a large missing error build-in.

All in all Rocket Turret needs a cooldown reduction, and perhaps a flight speed increase on a long distance… the rest is ok of course.
It’s still a turret, all the weaknesses remain

johnsonade.9547:

Nah it’s not a mistake, to the OP. The missile AoE only affects a single target, but the usefulness is that, even if that slow missile doesn’t hit dead center, the AoE explosion will knock a target down if they are in that 240 ring. This makes up for the slowness of the attack’s speed. I wouldn’t mind that AoE hitting multiple targets though. I’d consider that a buff rather than a fix.

In the Mists the aoe dummies are closer to each other than 240 range.
The overcharge rocket only knocks down one each time, even if I put it smack in the middle of the pack.

I would consider your theory acceptable as a mechanic, but it doesn’t seem to work that way…

LameFox.6349:

Somebody probably just pressed 0 by accident. What they meant to convey was that if you hit between the target’s feet, you’ll probably set at least one boot on fire! :o

one foot out of two???

That’s less rng than engineers ever had!

Soon.5240:

I would stick with the current gear. Until you improve as a player, your going to probably get your heinie waxed – no matter what you do. Your current gear is certainly viable. And nothing motivates more than getting curb stomped. It’s happened to us all at one time or anther.

this is very true of course, but let’s not foget his gear has no vitality and no toughness, at all…
Depending on his build, this could be extreme glass canon… which isn’t the best place to start on an engineer I think.

His build should fill in the gaps he lacks in defenses.
Somehow I fear he hasn’t taken many defensive traits at all

Talbin.8305:

Ugh… well, regardless… once they fix all the turret traits (someday???) I’ll probably still slot rocket turret. There are few things cooler than watching the slow arcing rocket head towards a immobilized opponent! Id say it rivals the awesome of sending everyone flying with Big Ol’ Bomb.

I’m not even arguing if it’s worth it as single target.
Granted the cooldown is waaaay too long, but the effect is good indeed.

But it can not be that the tooltip lists 240 radius, and the effect is single target.
This simply can not be correct together!

Either they never updated the tooltip after they changed their minds making it single target, or it simply is bugged and doesn’t work.

One of these has to be true.
And both hint at the same: sloppy engineer design again!

sounds like a plausible solution indeed:
hey, rocket turret aoe is a bit hard to implement.
Oh, just make it a single target aoe…

I really wonder what that 240 radius is for?
If your target is more than 240 away from where the rocket would hit, it doesn’t get hit?

It’s either bugged as hell, or it’s an utter design mess where they mixed up several ideas and forgot to streamline it all.
Either option is really bad press for engineer design… again.

Rifle would scale best with that power of your build.
But since your main concern is staying alive, I think the shield is an extremely good option.

They are different playstyles, not much to say about those weapons except: go to the Mists or pve and try them…

You will miss the crit if you go full pvt.
But as long as your damage source is scaling best with power, you will still hurt things.
For example: I can see pvt working great with a bomb build, even with healing bombs (without extra +healing gear that is).

Another option is: replace one piece with pvt at the time, untill you feel you live longer.
That way you can keep the max ammount of crit at that point. Don’t just ‘replace all’.

all in all a full power-vitality-toughness set up is certainly usable.
of course you’ll feel the damage difference, but power by itself hits like a truck without critting, given you use the corect weapons.

Tool kit for example, bombs, rifle as mentioned, flamethrower as well. They are all mostly power based.

Seras.5702:

So if you want party wide healing, grab the turret. Self healing, grab the kit. Elixir H is really only good for HGH and for less clunky, straightforward mechanics.

seems like the conclusion indeed.

one thing about the med kit though: since it is a kit, any healing aside the bandage self big heal, also takes you out of combat. You are not doing anything except healing.
Your enemy is not stopped or damaged in any way as long as you remain in that kit.

only your toolbelt skills and runes could change that.

For instance a traited tool kit would give you a crippling throw wrench to slow opponents with.
Runes of grenth will proc a chill when you swap to the Med Kit, effectively lowering the damage any melee can do to you, as well as limiting their movement.
Lots of examples.

Med kit healing also takes longer to use: dropping bandages and running over them takes a few seconds to get them all.

Med Kit is a slightly different way of fighting. Perhaps that is why it is allowed to be the biggest self-heal.

Nilix.2170:

Option 2. The tooltip shows a flat cdr but actually using the skill gives something different. Bandage Self says 14, but when you use it the cooldown timer starts at 15.

I’ll test a bit myself, but I’m not arguing it wasn’t different than the tooltip.
I simply never counted the actual seconds, I just took the tooltip counter for granted.

Odd bug, where the tooltip counts different than the actual timer.
Ususally the tooltip counter itself is wrong as well on these timer bugs.

Pannonica.5378:

lunyboy, are you able to repair non supply crate turrets with throw wrench?

throw wrench does not work for me.

It may be that only the numbers don’t show up, but outside of WvW the numbers do show up if I throw wrench over the turrets.
In the Mists, the numbers show up as well.
So my guess is that it doesn’t work at all in WvW.

This is most likely not new at all… just reporting it because it seems broken:

Rocket turret has some misleading tooltips, like so many other of our skills.

The normal attack says that damages enemies in a 240 radius at 1200 distance.

240 radius… think about it.

For me that means it should damage in an aoe circle of 240 radius where it lands. Right?
Wrong.
In the Mists, at the bunch of golems for aoe testing, it hits ONLY ONE DUMMY.

Now the overcharge:
240 radius again.
The tooltip even mentions ‘explosive rockets’.
‘Explosive’ is another hint at aoe, right?
Wrong.
A single target again.

What is this devs?
is this intended, or is it a bug?

And if it is intended: what the hell is that 240 radius about?

This is most likely not new at all… just reporting it because it seems broken:

Rocket turret has some misleading tooltips, like so many other of our skills.

The normal attack says that damages enemies in a 240 radius at 1200 distance.

240 radius… think about it.

For me that means it should damage in an aoe circle of 240 radius where it lands. Right?
Wrong.
In the Mists, at the bunch of golems for aoe testing, it hits ONLY ONE DUMMY.

Now the overcharge:
240 radius again.
The tooltip even mentions ‘explosive rockets’.
‘Explosive’ is another hint at aoe, right?
Wrong.
A single target again.

What is this devs?
is this intended, or is it a bug?

And if it is intended: what the hell is that 240 radius about?

Disciple.8024:

Zeebok, yes the 2nd ability counts as an explosion. you activate it once and just when it passes through the enemy you activate it again and it explodes (you get damage from it passing through and the blast).

what on earth are you basing this on?
Is this pure speculation?
Have you even remotely tested this before putting it out as truth?

My own tests clearly show that the trait does NOT increase FT#2 by any means!
This is easy to do: go to the Mists, put 20 points in Explosives and test with or without selecting this very trait.

It does NOT make the slightest difference at all.

Please test things before explaining how they are true.
or show me tests that prove that am doing it wrong.
I might be missing something, but in the Mists that trait does nothing on the flamethrower…

edit: it also does not give any bleeding proc with that trait, or any vulnerability with the 25 point trait.
It simply is NOT counted as an explosion… like so many other skills are not counted.
It’s just a misleading tooltip, we have plenty of those.

Yamsandjams.3267:

AsmallChicken.9634:

You should also take into account that putting points into Tools reduces Med Kit F1 heal cd. So at 30 in tools, Med Kit should see a 30% increase in overall healing.

Actually, the toolbelt recharge rate isn’t a linear reduction, or at least this has been reported to not be the case (I haven’t tested it personally).

That is, having 30 points in tools should not give you 30% off the cooldowns for your toolbelt skills. The formula may be something like:

CD / (1 + (TCR / 100))

where CD is the skill cooldown, and TCR is the toolbelt cooldown reduction from the tools tree.

So 30 points in tools for a 20s CD (medkit F1) would give

20 / (1 + (30 / 100)) = 15.38s

in contrast to a flat 30% reduction which would give 14s cooldown for the same skill.

Again, I haven’t personally tested this, but this has been reported to be the case.

20 points in Tools give me a 16 bandage self (or Throw wrench which is on the same cooldown).
30 points give me a 14 second cooldown.

looks like a pretty flat reduction to me, straightforward simple deduction of 20 or 30% from 20 seconds.

So:
1. either it is wrong what you heard
2. or you heard right, but the tooltip in game lists a wrong number since it lists that exact flat reduction.

This is an extremely nice piece of work you did there.
I think I was the one in that ‘other thread’ presenting some simple comparison numbers between leaving out and detonating. It was nowhere near as accurate or complete as what you did.
Others filled in, and slowly we were seeing the full picture.

You skipped all that and just handed the full picture on a silver platter

Grackleflint.4956:

Would a trait that allowed you to keep your turret Toolbelt skills available while your turrets are deployed be interesting to anyone? Call it something like “Refined Turrets.”

This would lock you out of your blast finishers, but it might be an interesting and useful change.

not a bad idea, but please not ANOTHER turret trait…
Not your fault, but turrets already have too many traits, and in general they are pretty weak at that too.

Accelerant-packed turrets should simply be baseline, every turret should knockback on detonating.
Just like your idea should be baseline. At least the availability of the toolbelt. Detonating should simply replace picking up or something. If detonated: lower cooldown, if destroyed by others: full cooldown.

A full turret trait build requires 20/0/30/0/10 or even 20/0/30/0/20 if you want the toolkit repair to be better…
Not all traits are as usefull, but it’s insane that you would create a turret build, and still can’t pick up all turret traits for it. Simply because you need some personal defense or dps as well…
Those builds leaving nothing for the engineer as traits

emikochan.8504:

I still think picking up a turret should reset the cooldown completely or down to 5 seconds.

Something that can’t move really needs to be much tougher in this game.

as others have suggested: the cooldown should keep running in the background and picking up the turret should simply lower that cooldown as now.

For example: if you pick up after 10 seconds, than it’s 5 seconds more till you can deploy again.
But if you pick up after 15 seconds, you can deploy immediately.

This way it can not be abused to get even shorter cooldown than 15 seconds, but at the same time you do not get a NEW cooldown as you pick up.

If you detonate immediately: 20 seconds wait.
If you detonate after 5 seconds: 15 second wait.
Anything over 20 seconds: you can immediately deploy again after detonating.

Another thread suggested this, and it’s so simple and effective.
It puzzles me why they insist on punishing us with this lack of mobility for turrets.

Turrets have a cooldown, they don’t need another added on destruction, that makes no sense at all.
Just let the cooldown count from deploying, and base all the rest on that moment.

Nice contributions, and it’s very weird what this all leads to:

1. leaving out the turret is not only the worst healing method, it is also impossible because of turret being destroyed

2. detonating is always better than leaving it out

3. Picking up the turret, the very things the devs gave as reason for the change… ends up being the BEST use of the turret

Anyone else slightly baffled?

edit: and the odd thing is that the turret got a LOT better, but somehow it’s not working as intended just yet.

Actually Nillix and Vereen, even if the turret would live longer, it would still be better to detonate.
I think you are both wrong and a bit quick to put my comment down.

I made a full comparison of detonating versus leaving it out in another thread.
It’s more than you account for:

you have to calculate the fact you are not using the toolbelt skill when it’s left out. on a 20 second timer that’s a big loss.
No aoe heal from the detonate in the water field. So you have to use another blast finisher that might be needed for another thing.
And very important: NO self heal from deploying the turret each time, that’s half the heal lost each 20 seconds!
Of course it’s more than the heals: when leaving the turret out you can not move!
Detonating = mobile. Leaving the turret = stationary.

Conclusion is: for self heal detonating is always better, but if you have a group with lots of blast finishers in a STATIONARY fight than leaving it out can be better.

I agree that the turret weakness is an extremely BIG issue.
But don’t think that’s the only reason to detonate it immediately.

Even when comparing heal per heal, cooldown against cooldown… it’s still better to detonate. And this is very odd, since it’s the opposite of what the devs wanted to achieve.
Even when you ignore the incredibly poor survival of the turret.

Turret weaknes could well be the worst of these issues, but you’re wrong claiming that we shouldn’t detonate if this was fixed.

emikochan.8504:

Arenanet said they didn’t like that people weren’t using the turret and instantly picking it up, so nerfing the instant effect makes sense.

but the new Healing Turret is actually better if detonated immediately.
So they sort of missed their goal there.

And let’s be frank about it: we did NOT pick up our turret before, as the dev said… we detonated it!
This proves they been theorycrafting instead of experiencing first hand.

You know, when all is said and done about Elixir S, the main thing they failed to do this patch is:

when nerfing Elixir S, they should have buffed the gadgets. ..
Those have stunbreakers but they need work.
The devs even ADMITTED the gadgets need improvement.

This was the time to improve them: when they nerfed Elixir S somewhat in utility.

Not doing this at this moment was a bad call. Engineers can’t be hearing ‘later’ on everything.
Gadgets should have happened now.

Than we would have lost some, but gained some for other builds… engineers need more of that.
Things like Healing Turret to open up more options.
Gadgets were perfect for this patch.

Think he means when it IS multiplicative, than the order in which each trait is counted actually matters. Or it could matter, depending on what is calculated.

If the traits work additively, than the order doesn’t matter of course.

Velron.3729:

I have not once had my turret die before I could drop it, get the additional cleanse on the very first tick, then detonate it. (in WvW and tPVP)

skill lag in Wvw worries me since it’s 3 button presses to compute. Other than that I think it’s doable indeed, unless under extreme aoe.

Tolmos.8395:

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5600 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret overload: 2600 heal every 20 seconds, 3 second regen, condition removal, no buff

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff.

And that isn’t even comparing the thrown elixir vs the healing turret toolbelt.

Without traits, the Elixir H still, IMO, comes out ahead. With traits, there is no question.

Not arguing the value of elixir H here, but your info on healing turret is only half of it:

- deploy turret: 2520 heal plus 3 sec regen
- overcharge: another 2520 AOE plus 5 seconds regen plus 2 cleanses
And a very important water field for 5 seconds (seems 3 but should be 5…)
Overcharge is on 15 seconds if turret is left out.
- detonate: 1200 something AOE heal in that water field, other blast finishers will do too.
- Tool belt skill: regen and water field now on 25 seconds.

That’s a lot more than you describe in your post.
Even if you don’t detonate, that’s still a lot more. Especially on a 15 seconds overcharge.

Elixir H is good, not saying it isn’t.
But you’re still not getting the comparison right I believe

CriSPeH.8512:

KR is just a niche trait for single Kit users.
I recently tried a P/P HGH condition build with Medkit+ B,C,S thinking I would use KR for the Magnetic Shield.

It works okay if you only think of it as more of a RNG effect that will happen sometimes while you are fighting. Having more than one kit makes this even more so.

not saying it’s bad that way, but would you seriously take it over speedy kits, deployable turrets or static discharge, or even speedy gadgets depending on the build?

I can imagine taking it over dropping a flamethrower when downed, not over any of the others. Given that at least one of those should benefit any particualr build more.

Clip.6845:

The worst thing about RB is, it doesnt make you immune to immobilize, so when an enemy applies it again mid-air, you basically just stunned yourself without moving out of range. It would be a great skill if it garanteed a 1500 range distance no matter what happens after you activate it. That way I wouldn’t mind the selfstun.

yup, a stunbreaker that knocks you down when you use it, should at least be reliable enough to ALWAYS move you the full distance, no matter what.

And they could add something like a small cripple, immobilize or knockdown to the nearest opponent.
That would make it more usefull in an offensive way too. As well as giving you time to get up…

Phil.6123:

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

I have 2 criteria for the turret to stay out:

1. do I have to move?

2. will the turret take any aoe damage at all, or get any aggro?

Usually both questions are answered by yes, meaning that I can NOT afford to leave the turret out.
Turrets need better aoe protection, and they need a better timing mechanic so that when picked up after their normal cooldown time you can immediately deploy again.
Not when detonated, just when picked up.

Just on the stomping: I see a big difference between being able to stop one player from preventing the stomp (blind) or just those in melee (FT #5 blind, and simular mechanics… and being totally unstoppable no matter what anyone does. Not the downed, not his rezzers, not the zerg rolling over you can stop an engineer from stomping with elixir S.

Others have such abilities too, but I wouldn’t compare the more limited ones like a melee blind or stability (even though this one has very little counters when stomping, at least you could theoretically down him).

It’s not the most important discussion, but I was simply a bit surprised they let this aspect of elixir S be, while removing less outcome deciding mechanics.
Just an observation, not in the range of being broken or really OP.

Clip.6845:

speed is capped at 133% with 100% = out of combat speed.
Good thing about slick shoes is, it will get you up to that cap even when chilled :p

this is it I guess.
Cap at 133% and the usefullness of the shoes lies in negating slow effects.

For this the shoes have a too long cooldown, but that’s a general gadget issue of course.

Still: ele’s have it better than engineers I think, in general WvW or pvp use.
And we got nerfed on elixir S because they got nerfed.

It’s odd to see the reasoning go from ele’s to engineers, but if we pull it through from engineers to warriors, we suddenly are being unreasonable and comparing apples to oranges.

You know what I saw elixir S being most powerfull for? Video after video of engineer pvp?
An unstoppable stomper!
I actually wondered each time: how long are the devs going to allow unstoppable stomping?

The healing, or proccing of on heal runes, or the cleanses I personally see as less OP than unstoppable stomping.

Funny, seems that’s the one thing they consider ok about elixir S

First test: out of combat I run the same distance with 5 seconds of swiftness as I do with 5 seconds of Slick shoes toolbelt.

So out of combat it’s not faster than that 33% of swiftness, or at least not by any noticable margin.

I end up at the same spot wih each run, either on swiftness or on the slick shoes.
And they don’t stack, which wasn’t expected as no speed buffs stack.

second test: in combat I seem to get slightly further with slick shoes than with swiftness.
Still: it’s not double or anywhere near that, it’s like 1/5 further at best… and even than.

Brinson.7289:

It doesn’t give swiftness.
It makes you run at +100% and ignores frost\cripple.
Outside of combat this isn’t very noticeable. Once you start fighting something; use it to run away to get a really big lead before activating swiftness or use it to catch up to a kiter.

his point is that it’s not 100% as the tooltip says. He’s not saying it gives swiftness, he’s asking why it’s not faster than when he uses swiftness…

I can’t confirm if it is less than 100% or not, will try to test this but have no idea at this point.

With or without the timer, the 20 second cooldown is simply too long for me.
Even when using just a single kit, I can’t convince myself that this trait would be better than the other option traits as Speedy Kits, or Static Discharge.

The timer is a nice idea, but if I have to wait 20 seconds for a 2 second effect, I’m not too bothered about the timing anyhow. I swap kits way way faster than that.
And if that timer shows up, I should be so lucky that I than need the effect my kit is giving me.
If I don’t need it yet… I will have swapped to a kit the next seconds anyhow, because that is how kit builds play. I need certain kit skills a lot more than I could need the weak KR effect at any given time. I’m not going to postpone a heal, or a FT knockback or blind, or a EG jump back, or a Tool Kit block… for whatever small effect KR might give me later on if I don’t waste the proc that very moment!
So nope: that timer doesn’t add much if I swap kits a lot: I can’t decide to wait when I see it, so I can get some desired proc from a certain kit. I need to swap to a kit for a normal kit skill way more than this thing.

As for the timer itself: the icon is a bit small but once you learn to notice it, it seems clear enough. Tested a bit in the Mists, but no way I’m taking that trait again.
Too little effect for the cooldown, and if using multiple kits the shared cooldown makes it totally not worth it over the alternatives.

Would have loved that little timer after the previous change though.
Or a seperate icon for each kit cooldown before that change…

Halo.1679:

I messed around with a turret spec last night in WvW and PVE. Turrets are still too weak, but its possible to throw down healing turret and 3 others, overcharge it, then blow up all 4 in the water field for some really good aoe heals. Really helps when everyone has to fall back if you have some set up in the background, the stragglers get some nice heals and blows back the advancing enemy.

Also, I had lots of fun dropping turrets behind me when running from large groups of people. I can just imagine the thoughts of my opponents as I keep detonating accelerant packed turrets in their path

isn’t this basically a healing turret and using the others as mines on long cooldowns?

If turrets are considered viable because we can only blow them up before they die anyhow… than something is seriously wrong in my book.

In the scenario you describe, any one turret should be replaced by throw mine for added boon stripping, and the other skill slot for Bomb Kit for BoB and added fields from the bombs.
The main issue with this would be: why trait accelerant packed turrets just for healing turret?
Picking up this trait makes people feel like they should use more turrets.
But in what you describe, the exact same build would be better of with throw mine and bomb kit. As it happens: the trait before Accelerant packed turrets could increase botht their ranges to something way better than a turret detonate anyhow.

Turrets need changes so they can be used in big fights WITHOUT having to be detonated the first second!
90% less aoe damage or something, as long as direct attacks can take them out, aoe should not.