Guild Wars 2

Runamok.9638:

Hopefully you mentioned something about the placement too, I have seen lots of SF failapults built in that tunnel way to close to WC. In range of AC/bali/counter cata fire range or suicide dive bombable. I hear on TS that SF building catas in Dredge and my response is always, is it kitten placement again? LOL

Not that we don’t do lots of stupid kitten ourselves, especially me, I do lots of stupid kitten.

-brotha

Funny you mention that…Last night we had two of our newer commanders build siege along the road coming from SM to Green Keep, to assault WC…I had been on my necro Dhuum bombing some people (trying to get to 30k kills this week), when I looked back and saw 2-3 catas /ACs/various ballistas all set up….

Once I explained to them the invulnerable wall issue on that side of the tower, we all laughed about it…I fully expected to get flamed on the forums about it too, until ET peoples rushed that siege to kill it right about the time the gate went down. As the red circle went up in WC I seen the last bit of siege get killed….I thought it was a pretty funny exchange of failing moments.

Runamok.9638:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Runamok.9638:

You SF guys can’t fool me. You sit around LA spamming whenever you get to play ET. I have seen it. Rallying all of your Fairweather’s with your calls to join the pvdough glory through the promised megazergs.

I was impressed SF with your scouting commitment at Anz..Spel…Mendons afterwe took them out yesterday morning. Thankful AR helped us reset after you wiped us at lords. I wish we would have defended our 1/3 better once you gathered the megazerg of revenge. But that’s on me…I won’t let it be so cakewalkish next time….shakes fist

-brotha

You guys had a couple of good size zergs yesterday, large enough that my group and another decided to pull off of AR and give you a little love.

Also that was a funny moment when your guys were outside the dredge tunnel entrance at WC (we owned it at that time), and left the 2-3 cata operators alone, we came through the tunnel and had the cata’s down before your guys knew what hit them.

Something I preach to our people on a daily basis, “stay with the siege, protect the siege”…People still gonna run up to the wall and mess around for no good reason.

I was commanding for a few hours. It seems our forces had lots of ebb in flow in terms of size. I really wanted to keep Anz from upgrading to give us breathing room and XP for my underleveled asura.

Yah I dropped those cats and was one of the guys on them that got face smashed. I was calling for folks to come back and sit in the tunnel. Wasn’t tagged up at that time tho. I knew it was comin… Properly defended that tunnel is one of my favoritest farming spots in the game. Our folks wanted to go fight onesie twosies on in front of the tower instead.

-brotha

Well maybe it was a good learning moment for them, I even think I mentioned it in say chat about not staying with siege and the said consequences…

Just like when you got point-blank catas on a keep wall, soon as that first wall goes down: people go apekitten and start running through the breach like its time to cap the keep, and there I stand with my 3-4 cata operators looking like an kitten….Drives me crazy every time lol….

Runamok.9638:

You SF guys can’t fool me. You sit around LA spamming whenever you get to play ET. I have seen it. Rallying all of your Fairweather’s with your calls to join the pvdough glory through the promised megazergs.

I was impressed SF with your scouting commitment at Anz..Spel…Mendons afterwe took them out yesterday morning. Thankful AR helped us reset after you wiped us at lords. I wish we would have defended our 1/3 better once you gathered the megazerg of revenge. But that’s on me…I won’t let it be so cakewalkish next time….shakes fist

-brotha

You guys had a couple of good size zergs yesterday, large enough that my group and another decided to pull off of AR and give you a little love.

Also that was a funny moment when your guys were outside the dredge tunnel entrance at WC (we owned it at that time), and left the 2-3 cata operators alone, we came through the tunnel and had the cata’s down before your guys knew what hit them.

Something I preach to our people on a daily basis, “stay with the siege, protect the siege”…People still gonna run up to the wall and mess around for no good reason.

Steve Whitley.8359:

trust me man… AR has done MUCH worse on our way up… we kept their keep, built a waypoint there and camped there for days on end, never moved on. most of these people who are raging about what’s going on now weren’t around then and are just upset because they’re new and want to actually just play. Looking back now, its not a very nice thing to do and if I had a do-over i wouldn’t do it again (different times, different scoring system, you know…).

from what i’ve seen SF eventually does move on. its not like you have numbers to keep people everywhere at once (not a dig, just battlefield logistics). I wouldn’t worry about people raging on the forums. next week will be a new week, and there will still be a wvw. Hopefully AR has given you guys something fun to play against, even if it’s been at our spawn, you’ve given us some exciting fights (I know personally its been pretty exciting trying to keep stuff from getting capped at night when i play, we’ve won some we’ve lost some, but that is what it is all about).

I hope for your server that you are a commander or at the very least a vocal leader…Because you sir, seem to have a handle on reality, and get “it”.

lordkrall.7241:

And why would your day be more valuable than another players day?
Not everyone lives in the same timezone. There is always night somewhere.

Does not have anything to do with time of day….At least not what I said, (not sure if you were replying to me) has to do with population variances. That is a 24/7 issue in badly rolled matches. Blowouts due to population disparities are not good for WvW, they are not good for ANET, they aren’t good for the losers or the winners.

Also from ANET:

“This is not saying that we are against any adjustment to scoring, or against developing another mechanic to improve the capping system. This is simply saying that we will not be changing WvW based on some players’ idea of off time hours.”

That is what I am hoping for…

I am becoming more and more inclined to lean toward the idea that many have had of limiting/capping the PPT earned so that it adjusts with population scaling.

My only major hesitation, would be manipulation of the system.

Banzie.5248:

SF, Get out of T8, Come show IoJ some loving. Promise not to break you guys again with the other server ;P

I lol’d (seriously).

Sanguinius.4809:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Sanguinius.4809:

if being the last 8-10 ppl on yer server actually trying to wvw participate makes you a die-hard(in your case you make it imply try-hard) then idk what you expect those few to do.

So I say 8-10 die-hards you consistently have on EB (which is impressive, you could have just quit wvw for the week like HoD used to do) cant do everything for you, and you take it as a slight that i am super secretly insinuating they are try-hards?

Lady I don’t know who broke your heart up there before your fall from grace, but don’t come across so jaded so early on in this love affair, you will be here for a while so its best to get a lay of the land before turning into a drama-mama.

lol i love how you accuse me of drama yet you see no problem with jumping right in and contributing by replying and callin me out. im pretty sure there is a word for that. rhymes with democracy. lol your attitude sucks and you cant admit making a jab at our few remaining defenders. the entire tone of your message did NOT imply you admiring these “try-hards” and on top of that you NOW added an additional phrase"(which is impressive, you could have just quit wvw for the week like HoD used to do)" to take the sting out of the message as if it was there all along? . if you wanna say it was a completely neutral message and attitude then i kitten guess mayn. lol im done with this convo ty for the input tho.

Calm down toots, like I said at the time of the posting, you had legitimately 8-10 on EB trying to defend. I said “die-hard” you said I meant “try-hard”, you seem to be a professor of literature; seeing as how you can derive my tone from a few lines of text. Secondly, are you crazy? I mean really? I only ask because:
[IRONY]“lol i love how you accuse me of drama yet you see no problem with jumping right in and contributing by replying and callin me out. im pretty sure there is a word for that. rhymes with democracy.” [/IRONY] So basically you are saying it is ok for you to spout off whatever you want, just not OK for me to take exception and/or reply to it?

You can ask around, I do not have any problem speaking my mind, and if I wanted to say something negative: I would have just said it.

Atistheso.4657:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Atistheso.4657:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thorson.9218:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thorson.9218:

So, SF, what are you looking for in this match?

Friday….

So….you aren’t going to play until Friday, you’re going to spawn camp us ’till Friday, what?

Friday hoping that we get a better roll, you guys put up a good fight, but we can’t get better fighting the same people/outmanned people every week.

It breeds bad habits on our side…people think WvW is just run to a tower, throw 2 rams, cap it, move to the next.

Then we move up and it gets harder, they quit. So we need to keep getting better, not PVgate all week.

Just a random suggestion but why don’t you try to split your forces when the 2 other servers are outmanned ? this way you would have more challenging fights on different sides of the map instead of moving in a giant ball that run through everything because you have 3 times more people. There are a few hours in the day when we (ET) can put a fight against your zerg but most of the time it’s just like this. Honestly over the last 2 weeks I really had the feeling that sf was enjoying rolling over people who can’t do anything more than fighting fights that are a little challenging.

We like to not really have more than 2 commanders on a map at once, which usually ends up as being 1 commander.

We do try to split the zerg, because I really hate trying to finish off Blue keep, and have people crying out for Anzalas being attacked…

I favor the “zone-approach”, having a commander at each 1/3 zoning it off, with a 3rd havoc group roaming to support either. Just always dont have the people for that.

Well in this matchup you do have the people for it but you just don’t do it. So to us it looks like the majority of sf only want to roll over smaller armies rather than to have a fair fight. I say the majority because I’ve often seen VS fighting on their own apart from the main zerg, and they are not afraid to fight with equal numbers or even with a number disadvantage.
The rest of sf however won’t fight if they don’t have at least twice the numbers. It’s ridiculous how many times we took Anz and Mendon totally undefended while sf was busy attacking blue keep with 50 people against 10 defenders.

“Having the people” does not always mean “having the numbers”. Sometimes I am the only commander, sometimes other commanders are the only commander.

You have rarely taken anything without us knowing, We usually try to keep scouts at Anz/Speld/Mend/Dredge (the “ET side”) while we are pushing Blue. Couple of times we have let Anz go because it was paper and we were flipping a T3 blue tower/keep etc. A few times you guys were able to get Mendons from us before we could get there….

In the end, while I like the above posted strategy, I also want our people to get used to zerging up, because when we face the DH/IoJ/DR/NSP/HoD’s of the world we will need our 50 man zergs again.

Eventually…Hopefully…We kind find some middle ground and get the “best of both worlds”.

Atistheso.4657:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thorson.9218:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thorson.9218:

So, SF, what are you looking for in this match?

Friday….

So….you aren’t going to play until Friday, you’re going to spawn camp us ’till Friday, what?

Friday hoping that we get a better roll, you guys put up a good fight, but we can’t get better fighting the same people/outmanned people every week.

It breeds bad habits on our side…people think WvW is just run to a tower, throw 2 rams, cap it, move to the next.

Then we move up and it gets harder, they quit. So we need to keep getting better, not PVgate all week.

Just a random suggestion but why don’t you try to split your forces when the 2 other servers are outmanned ? this way you would have more challenging fights on different sides of the map instead of moving in a giant ball that run through everything because you have 3 times more people. There are a few hours in the day when we (ET) can put a fight against your zerg but most of the time it’s just like this. Honestly over the last 2 weeks I really had the feeling that sf was enjoying rolling over people who can’t do anything more than fighting fights that are a little challenging.

We like to not really have more than 2 commanders on a map at once, which usually ends up as being 1 commander.

We do try to split the zerg, because I really hate trying to finish off Blue keep, and have people crying out for Anzalas being attacked…

I favor the “zone-approach”, having a commander at each 1/3 zoning it off, with a 3rd havoc group roaming to support either. Just always dont have the people for that.

katz.8376:

most of them are rubbing me the wrong way

cough cough cough…

:P

Thorson.9218:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thorson.9218:

So, SF, what are you looking for in this match?

Friday….

So….you aren’t going to play until Friday, you’re going to spawn camp us ’till Friday, what?

Friday hoping that we get a better roll, you guys put up a good fight, but we can’t get better fighting the same people/outmanned people every week.

It breeds bad habits on our side…people think WvW is just run to a tower, throw 2 rams, cap it, move to the next.

Then we move up and it gets harder, they quit. So we need to keep getting better, not PVgate all week.

Thorson.9218:

So, SF, what are you looking for in this match?

Friday….

HatSimulator.9362:

This thread just shows what kittens SF really are. We get it, we cant take a keep with 60 vs 30.

MEEEEEEEEEEEEOW.

We gonna have to build an Ark, theres bound to be a flood

Sanguinius.4809:

if being the last 8-10 ppl on yer server actually trying to wvw participate makes you a die-hard(in your case you make it imply try-hard) then idk what you expect those few to do.

So I say 8-10 die-hards you consistently have on EB (which is impressive, you could have just quit wvw for the week like HoD used to do) cant do everything for you, and you take it as a slight that i am super secretly insinuating they are try-hards?

Lady I don’t know who broke your heart up there before your fall from grace, but don’t come across so jaded so early on in this love affair, you will be here for a while so its best to get a lay of the land before turning into a drama-mama.

Sanguinius.4809:

lol nothin but arrogance from our SF counterparts looks like. and ET thinking we dont know anything about big zergz. looks like these guys dont know anything about us Anvil. let us illuminate them. : )

ORlly?

Navnn.1980:

GG ET, thanks for the free badges and the 5+ golems you jus gave us at garrison in ARBL. I guess u cant take back your borderlands oviously cause ya all scared off getting wiped by SF. So thanks in advance for the badges you will give us in ARBL the rest of the week.

Opc.4718:

Next item on my agenda, SF and ET, please stop wiping yourself and your golems on our garry doors thanks. Or at least have the decency to come at the same time so we can clean you off in one go.

/endrage

yeah bunch of sf arrogance there….typical “sinking ship” server, always laying the blame at the foot of another….Might be time to look inward AR, the 8-10 die-hards you have been fielding on EB all morning can’t do everything for you.

Oh man….New people….Looks at ET, sup bro.

I see AR thinks they got some forum warriors….Don’t make me dust off my old armor bro….I am at least level 60 Infractals now…

ET keep up the good fights……AR, I look forward to both of you guys to keep posting!

Blinder.6798:

Why haven’t I seen [Rally Bait] tags yet?

TOOOO long of a tag….(I really tried…)

You all make good points, but the one thing I can tell you:

I have played in lower tiers predominantly, NSP, ET, SF…I have alt accounts on BG and JQ…Again, the resounding agreement from the majority of lower tier players is that:“we do not want your free transfers”.

If you come here, come because you want to be here, not because you can “take a vacation” from the zergs of T1/2/3….

That is why most of us are against free transfers, and the other major reason is the aforementioned issue of T8s, going to T7s, which in effect further demolishes the T8 servers.

Fight night was meh…ET had about 5-6 peeps there, SF around 4-5, FC-0….Pretty sad to see no FC presence, Silent from [Yarr] was there at the very beginning but I am guessing he found some roaming to do since there was all of 3 people there at the start.

General rule of thumb, if SF outnumbers you at fight night, then you are slipping…kitten doesn’t really have a lot of “fight-nighters”, and that is also the night that they do PVE stuff.

My groups will sometimes set up siege, and if we have to move and leave a team there to finish the cap, we just tap the gate a bit. It gives you full credit most of the time. (Even when it doesn’t something is better than nothing).

There are other times when I have tapped nothing, and stood in the circle and got nothing (SM and some other random keeps). Tapping the gate for a bit is your best bet IMO.

Aeros.2046:

What he’s saying is Devon knows WvW is the trap that keeps players playing GW2. However, his boss is still enamored with this “living world” thing, and so he is forced to mention every meeting time that the majority of the player population is invariably in WvW at any point in time. They all say “that’s nice devon” But players killing players? We don’t need that kind of barbarism in our art project.

I have a feeling that you are so spot on that it is scary…ANET has always been Mickey Mouse about this sort of thing, wanted to accommodate casual players more than a hardcore player base that keeps a game in service.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

VS, stop apologizing and making up with the other servers. I was getting my popcorn ready. I have been disappointed all week how short and drama free it was. Pancakez come back and chest thump some more.

Let’s do it. Where are you Paxa?

Now now Belle, if we are calling in reinforcements from HoD, don’t make me call our lord Flappy in to line you out….

:P

As if Flappy EVER posts in the forums. I dare you. I double dog dare you.

Me and some others have coaxed him out of his wittle shell a few times during HoD matchups.

OmegaArts.1029:

Hello guys…Probably dont know me but I am Aerolynn. A Guild Leader and Commander in VS. Pancakez doesn’t think before he speaks most of the time and I do feel his comments where out of line and unnecessary. We don’t need to prove to anyone that we can fight battles out manned. The actions will speak for themselves.

The good people of Sorrows Furnace have welcomed our guild with opens arms since day one. They are all wonderful people and I enjoy working with everyone. Pancakez wont admit it but when we are fighting ET or FC no one is really paying that much attention to what guild is where. In the enemy’s eyes its all the same. We have won some fights out manned but we have also lost our fair share of battles.

I ask that no other VS members partake in these arguments of zerg size or who beat who with what army. Its pointless and just gives the speakers ( and in that sense the guild) a bad image. Lets be professional here guys.

No worries Aero, FC/ET/SF has been trolling each other for as long as I can remember (that’s what family does right?)…Like I said before, you guys have been awesome, not just another high tier guild here to farm badges. You help out every chance you get, and have contributed greatly in the short time you have been here.

Tell Pancakes not to sweat it, like I said before, being the new folks makes you an easy target (forum trolling wise) down here on the lower tiers where everyone knows everyone. I know SF used to give Agg and VK hell every chance we got.

TL/DR: I love VS and will be your rally bait anytime

Also FIGHT NIGHT TONIGHT, ET BL from what I read, don’t be scary ET/FC/SF, come get embarrassed like the rest of us.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

VS, stop apologizing and making up with the other servers. I was getting my popcorn ready. I have been disappointed all week how short and drama free it was. Pancakez come back and chest thump some more.

Let’s do it. Where are you Paxa?

Now now Belle, if we are calling in reinforcements from HoD, don’t make me call our lord Flappy in to line you out….

:P

Avatar of Belle.9623:

King Amadaeus.8619:

tom.7468:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I do not think they should. Because what you get on free transfers is people with nothing invested. So if they show up, don’t mesh well with the community, then they just hop to another server….Or worse drama builds, and everyone suffers.

Before transfer cost i never saw this ever and the server i had the most fun on was actually vabbi one of the lowest ranked ones. I have been to several servers. The community on every server I’ve been to was great except for vizunah square which i was only on 3 days because i didn’t understand anything.
You don’t have to mesh well with the community to follow a commander and kill enemy players.

Can’t speak to the Euro side of things, but I know on NA, T8 had a few “high-tier” guilds move down to them, and they all lasted on average about a month, maybe 2…This was in large part (from what I have been told) due to the fact that they wanted to run “alone” with only their guild(s), and in the end did not mesh well with the overall community.

There will always of course be exceptions, but just because what you perceive to be the idea of the game is to " follow a commander and kill enemy players", does not mean that these people will think the same.

I disagree with why the high tiers left. It’s not because of how they got along with the community. It’s because T8 was a much different kind of WvW and they didn’t find it as challenging or fun. At least that was my personal experience.

I was just operating on what I was told, I was not there (had long since been on SF by then), and until this past week SF has yet to receive any of these higher tier guild groups. I do remember that VK said up front they weren’t staying.

tom.7468:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I do not think they should. Because what you get on free transfers is people with nothing invested. So if they show up, don’t mesh well with the community, then they just hop to another server….Or worse drama builds, and everyone suffers.

Before transfer cost i never saw this ever and the server i had the most fun on was actually vabbi one of the lowest ranked ones. I have been to several servers. The community on every server I’ve been to was great except for vizunah square which i was only on 3 days because i didn’t understand anything.
You don’t have to mesh well with the community to follow a commander and kill enemy players.

Can’t speak to the Euro side of things, but I know on NA, T8 had a few “high-tier” guilds move down to them, and they all lasted on average about a month, maybe 2…This was in large part (from what I have been told) due to the fact that they wanted to run “alone” with only their guild(s), and in the end did not mesh well with the overall community.

There will always of course be exceptions, but just because what you perceive to be the idea of the game is to " follow a commander and kill enemy players", does not mean that these people will think the same.

Truthfully, might not be the answer you want, but aside from quitting your only real answer NA-side is: T8 servers. Less people = less zergs, and the zergs that we do get can be moved around as their is usually only 1-2 beyond reset night.

Like Belle said T1 is not for you…I had an alt account on BG and now have one on JQ, and while I do not play a ton, I have yet to see hardly any small scale fights.

The Euro server idea sounds like it may be an option, but I would be wary…Not sure just how much the “meta” can really be that different, but it may…The problem is that you have just about as many people saying “euro” as you do people saying “t1”, so obviously no one can be trusted…. lol

styx.7294:

Kaineng aside, as soon as they allowed it last time you had guilds movin from tier 8 to tier 7 (such as Mend). I don’t really know if any of the low WvW population servers were helped by this last time. I think just about all of the higher tier guilds ended up moving back eventually.

Spot on…All the movement will actually be from 8’s to 7’s or something along those lines….And all those savior guilds that came down last time, realized it is just as easy to get zerged by 50 people on T8 as it is on T1, it just doesn’t happen 24/7 on T8 like it does on T1. They also realized you are more likley to attract PUGs to your group when there are less people per capita on the map.

katz.8376:

we got the same lack of respect from Agg. then they ran some of our pugs off a cliff for the express purpose of killing them.

Wait how did they do that?

DevonCarver.5370:

Sooner than you might think, but not nearly as soon as we would like. That’s as much as I can say.

It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma….

Halloween.

I actually want LESS waxpaper (wxp), that way when one of my “Scouts” whips you, you feel even dumber….

Also, if I see a high rank I immediately target these people, as I believe they are try-hards that farm rank and are probably better at PVdooring, capping camps, repairing walls, than PVP.

katz.8376:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

…You guys do kill us sometimes, but I will say 95% of the time we wipe, we only have about 13-17 VS members, I don’t count the rest, nor do I care if they’re with us, as they’re mostly rally bait and actually helping you guys…

and i suddenly lost all respect for you guys

and any SF with half a brain and a modicum of self-worth should do the same

/sad

Yeah I am not at all in love with the comments myself, especially coming from new people etc….

But I can say (while I have yet to “run” with these guys) they have always been more than happy to lend support to us (commanders, and the PUGs) whenever we call them.

I just think he was being honest about the situation and in the heat of the moment chose some harsh wording, from what I have seen of them they are generally nice people that enjoy the game.

Same thing happened when the VK’s, Agg’s, and FoE’s came down to T8, everyone jumped on everything they said and tried to rip any and all credibility from them every chance they got. It is just something that happens when you are the new kids on the block. (queue subsequent quote with NKOTB youtube link). 9/10 if people are forum warring you, as a server or guild, you are likely doing something right.

5-man v 20-man, the 5 can hit only “5/five” of the 20-man, while the 20 can hit all 5/five of the 5-man. So in essence the 5-man is penalized, and the 20-man is rewarded. Of course skill, coordination, build-synergy, all affect the final outcome, but this is the basis on what builds 20-30-40-50…etc zergs.

But when you start to think of things in this way, you start to realize why people just zerg up (again because it gives a REAL advantage), this entire game’s meta right now is built around a technological limitation in ANET’s hardware. (5-man AoE cap, because without the cap their servers would melt)

So in that sense things can only change (as far as I see it), if 1 of 2 things happens.

1. ANET finds a way to remove the AoE cap. (not likely)
2. Players take the initiative to run in smaller groups. (Less likely than the previous)

Not sure if they could hear it or not…But then again I don’t run the sound on in this game, usually just VoiP and blaring music…

I do not think they should. Because what you get on free transfers is people with nothing invested. So if they show up, don’t mesh well with the community, then they just hop to another server….Or worse drama builds, and everyone suffers.

I think the best method is the one we have now, which is that if people DO want to transfer they have to come up with the “jack” to make that happen. Which means, at some level, they at least have something invested in the transfer.

It is best (again in my opinion), to let lower tiers learn to work with what they have, rather than give them mass transfers, and then if/when said transfers move one, those servers plummet even farther since they were relying on a false sense of security.

Insane Pancakez.9182:

You should all know that they flock in when there is a fight near them, they don’t do that much though……I don’t count the rest, nor do I care if they’re with us, as they’re mostly rally bait and actually helping you guys.

VS getting borderline PAXA-ey already??? Errbody knows my high-horse is the highest around here!

In all seriousness, you guys (ET/FC) just need to think of VS as a PAXA group that actually cares. IE: they run around looking for fights (mainly looking for fights where they are outmanned) and that is their thing, but unlike PAXA they don’t mind doing so while helping our commanders out. (wiping an attacking force, defending a breach, running a supply train to a gate, etc)

-Your Little Poneh

Aeros.2046:

You guys really don’t get how hard it actually is to release a new map. They have to make sure there are no shenanigans, like a jump that gets you around the Keeps Wall, or kittened places where you can put Arrow Carts/Trebs, and so on.

You realize you can still jump into Jerrifers all day long right???

They should just follow the rest of their model to this point and release it and let us find the bugs…At least then their “hotfix” patches would be kicking us out of WvW for WvW-related stuff not because some NPC is wearing the wrong clothes or whatever ridiculous PVE shenanigans are occuring….

You guys are all operating under the assumption that they actually care about anything other than PVE.

Daemonne.5018:

From what I recall, I would have to say your thoughts on ET being mostly “militia” would stem from all the guild exodus’ we’ve seen.
Decent guilds would come, wreck face, get called out for heading up HUGE zergs, then move on to another server in either frustration or because the call for server stacking had come across and they felt like joining.
Unless things have changed since I’ve taken a break, ET does not have the “guild presence” en masse as other servers do.

No offense taken or given King, just my thoughts on the subject as usual :-)

No offense taken bro, you sound spot on as well. One thing I can say for certain is without organized guilds running groups/events/raids (whatever), then WvW is an uphill battle for any server on any tier.

Not sure if I read it right, but were you saying people on ET were calling out their own people for leading large zergs??? If so that is crazy, right now or before, on any T8 server I would take a zerg because at the least it means people are playing. If there is a zerg roaming then I know I can do things like small man fights, roam solo etc, and not have to worry about being spawn-camped 24-7.

Just making a post so pg2 will activate….Carry on ….

That made my day…

katz.8376:

Jakare.6807:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Tonight we ran about 18 players and got our kitten handed to us a few times by a 40-50 man zerg on ET. In that footage my guild was about 23 of us and we pretty much killed your zergs alone.

40-50 man zerg on ET

Aha. What.

i know… that’s a pretty good question… i’ve only seen that many of us together once or twice. usually we’re lucky to top 30

From my experience large numbers on low tier servers almost always starts with guild groups. PUGs will gravitate to them, and then you get the 30-50 mans. FC has some impressive coordination, but when I see their largest groups coming at me its usually many of the same tag(s), with just as many pugs sprinkled in.

I love fighting FC because they don’t back down, they ball up and push, it is something I am trying to ignite in our own server identity. We got the zergball (stack up, might up, blah blah) mentality, but we don’t have the “all or nothing” drive just yet, but hopefully it will come. When that first wave of DPS/stun or whatever hits us we tend to lose the “stack” and get spread out. ET rarely stacks (only from what I have saw, again not trying to be negative), but your spread out groups further break apart when pushed.

ET by in large still seems like a militia (random groups with little “built-in” cohesion), I do not say that to be negative, so please take no offense, you guys are still fighting so that says something. A few times over the weekend I would have my guys/gals stack up on me, and I could tell right away by the ET response what type of group you guys had. SF is like ET in terms of organization at times, it all just comes with time and repetition.

FC was the first T8 server to really start with the zergball tactics, I remember I used to come across WZ in the dredge practicing on it way back in the glicko ghetto days. Then came the VK guys and it kinda steamrolled from there.

Jesse.4631:

Now FC’s turn! xD wow wheres sf tonight?

Its the same song and dance, I tried to explain this to you guys back in the old T8 days…You have always had opportunity, but (back then) the meta was to sit around and whine about number disparity’s, which in large part only occur during NA primetime during the weekdays(beyond reset weekend).

This is the reason why many of us back then, were very wary about moving beyond the T8/T7 range, because we had been on during those times trying to move all of 10 people to defend an objective.

Berk.8561:

Aquilus.9423:

Obviously I can’t speak for my entire server, but every time I’ve been on, our Commanders(or at least the ones I see) are actively directing us away from ET and in our voip channel, they’re telling us to leave ET alone and focus on DR.

Tonight, while I was on WvW in EBG, we spent quite a bit of time fighting off a small SF zerg turning over stuff in our third of EBG instead of attacking DR and I see plenty of red popping up on our borderlands throughout the day.

As a former ET, and the person that started the whole Big brother, middle brother, little brother craze…I feel that I should point out a couple of things here…

1. SF is meh right now…As always they (the mindless masses not the organized hardcore wvw’ers) flow the path of least resistance.
2. The idea is, and has been proven by ET this week, that either DR or SF is gonna control your 1/3 of EB at varying times of the day. Because of a dwindle in WvW interest, DR has fielded superior numbers this week in comparison to SF. SO, they have been fairly capable of defending their 1/3 if we pushed it, and still capping ET’s 1/3 nearly simultaneously.
3. 90% of people on SF understand the situation on ET, but in a 3-way match we can’t attack our self, so it is kind of expected that ET is gonna get hit somewhat.
4. Someone above on SF mentioned that we have been saying on voip to leave ET be, and that is correct. Hell a few times over the weekend we even went and flipped ET’s T3 towers on EB that had been controlled by DR, then promptly left them so that they could be taken back by ET.
5. The downside of the 3-way match is pretty much always one of these issues: Servers 1&2 are doubleteaming 3 because 3 can’t maintain its holdings, servers 2 & 3 are working against server 1 because server 1 is severely overpowered, or some variation of the two.

irishhaf.1692:

Whats funny is seeing small man groups wanting the ability to bust zergs with impunity

Opportunity, not necessarily ability…Again, it is not only about smaller groups vs zergs…

Euryon.9248:

BTW, even though I find the argument that a 5-man group should be able to wipe a 30-man zerg a bit silly and unrealistic, I would like to see the 5-man AoE cap lifted or expanded if possible, and I do think the downed mechanic is very flawed, at least in PvP. If ANet can bring themselves to rethink those specific implementations, and this gives a very good 5-man group a chance to win a battle against a poorly-led group 3 times their size, then I would applaud that. I’m just not holding my breath, as it seems the cap is a practical rather than an idealistic issue, and they do seem married to their downed state implementation. I really wish there was a straightforward way to eliminate that in PvP situations, though.

Well said and you are right, the AoE cap is a technical issue of sorts…Technical in the sense that if they raised it their server would catch on fire. The AoE cakitten trictly due to server load issues according to our WvW rep.

Shademehr.1397:

It looks to me that you’re saying a five man group, just because they individually have a higher proficiency at the game, should always be able to defeat a much larger force. ALWAYS. That’s just crazy, imo.

No not always. As far as my engagement in this conversation goes, I really think you make some good points but also have a “can’t see the forest for the trees” in your logic. Because of certain game mechanics proficiency often has less to do with the outcome than anything else.

First off, you are right, numbers likely win out. 5v20 or 5v30 doesnt really matter, often the outcome is the same. My gripe (I will let PAXA and others differentiate for themselves) is that the 20 people are rewarded due to ANETs 5-man AoE cap, for running in a larger group. (Same could be said if a 20-man met up with a 40-man, then a 40v60, etc, has nothing to do with the actual numbers, its more about the ratios in terms of 5-man increments)

With that being said, skill has little to do with it more often than not. When you take into account the AoE cap, coupled with the downed state shenanigans, you can start to see how larger group play is encourage/rewarded/popular.

It is very easy for folks to sit back and say “well 5v20, pfft the 20 should win”….But when you analyze it you quickly realize, ok how could the 5 ever win? Well the 5-man can only hit 5/20 at a time, while the 20 can hit all 5 of the 5-man. So essentially the 5-man has to wipe the 20-man four times over (again 5 at a time), and that is not even taking into account whether or not the 20 are ressing each other.

Like I said I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I hear people talking of “zerg-mentality”, “broken mechanics”, “rewarding/encouraging zerging”, I often think of an example like this. Because of the game’s mechanics it makes zerg busting exponentially more difficult.

The same applies to roaming, I can jump into a group of 8-10 people, now it isn’t very smart but it has been known to happen. Same problem again, I am hitting 5 of the 8-10 people, while ALL of them are hitting me.

If you are reading all of this thinking/saying “well dummy you cant go 1v10 or 5v20”, then that (again to me), is what most of us are talking about in how this game, its culture, and its mechanics discourage smaller groups, and encourage zerg-style ones.

Shademehr.1397:

Balanced in what sense? By allowing five people to “zerg bust” twenty-five people? I’d wager that isn’t quite the definition of “balanced”.

It would be balanced if that 5 could hit that 25 with all of their skills, it would if those 25 weren’t counting on their buddies to help them up when their glassy selves inevitably hit the ground 3 times in one engagement…Just because you have 25 people doesn’t mean you should win against 5…You should probably be better than those 5 people to actually win, and on the other side if those 5 are better than your 25 they should win, whereas now they have to be exponentially better because they have to overcome AoE caps, rezzers, etc. You just think the QQing and nerf-crying is bad in this game now, if they ever find a way to increase the AoE cap without frying their servers it will be goodnight sweet prince….