Guild Wars 2

So you’re trying to say that she wasn’t a Secondborn, when she was born in 1308 AE, and the Secondborn were born from 1308 to 1309 AE? She had to be 16 in 1324 or earlier, given that she was 16 as Ceara, and unleashed steam creatures and caused the Thaumanova explosion (early 1325/late 1324) as Scarlet Briar.; being 16 in 1324 would put her at born in 1308 AE, the same year as the older “half” (half in regards to the timespan of their birth, not their numbers) of the Secondborn.

I don’t think your argument can fly, it just doesn’t make sense. Because she was obviously born in the first of two years that the Secondborn were.

It just means that Serimon was one of the earlier Secondborn, or was a Firstborn and is yet to be called a Firstborn (it wouldn’t be surprising given there are three Firstborn we don’t know about, but it would be weird that no one calls him a Firstborn when all Firstborn who’s locations are known are talked about). While it feels unlikely that he was a mender and helping newborn when he himself wasn’t that old, it’s the only logical explanation given what we know of Scarlet Briar.

DarcShriek.5829:

I think Scarlet’s case can be easily explained. Until she entered Omadd’s device, she had the protection of the Dream. Once inside the device, she lost that protection. Similarly, with Aerin, he lacked the protection of the Dream because he was soundless.

This may not be so. Per the discussion in this thread and my calculations on her timeline, it seems that Scarlet encountered the entity (known to be from 1321 to 1323 AE) first several years before entering the machine. So she still had the connections to the Dream at that point.

So the Dream isn’t offering protection. There are no barriers that introduced the entity to Ceara. It might have allowed the entity to get further into her, but it didn’t prevent it.

So given points brought up in this other thread, mainly the apparent timeline of Scarlet’s life, it becomes apparent that her journal from Season 1 predates her going into the machine – as per my calculations given all current information, she had to enter the machine in 1324 AE, when she was 16 (and that she’s a Secondborn).

This is important, as it means Scarlet Briar still had a connection to the Dream when she first came into contact with the entity. Whether or not this entity is Mordremoth, and whether or not this entity is who messed with Aerin, it means that Scarlet – or Ceara at the time – was not akin to Soundless-ness.

Thus being separated from the Dream, or having her “barriers” in her mind broken down has absolutely nothing to do with the entity messing with her.

If the entity Scarlet dealt with is the same as the voice Aerin dealt with, then this means that Aerin, indeed, may not have been Soundless. Perhaps on the way to becoming such given the mantra found, but may not have been one yet. And in either case, if he was Soundless, it is irrelevant – maybe makes him more susceptible, but overall did not prevent him being messed with.

This is very important, because it means that whatever happened to them… the Dream isn’t a preventive measure.

DarcShriek.5829:

I have to place this entry at least 2 years before before she went into Omadd’s device. She had been studying ley lines while a student. It would be surprising that with as much interest as she shows here, it would be years before she actually came into contact with a ley line.

I’m thinking more of a year. Perhaps a little less. Her Steam creature prototypes had to be built in 1324 AE, given the 16 years old comment, and that seems to be her first holo-recording, and given the S1 journal, the one we find here was likely written afterward, thus written after spring of 1323 AE when that first one ended, thus the second journal was writen in later 1323 AE or 1324 AE before her birthday. The recordings would also put her becoming Scarlet Briar at 16 (per the above stated Thaumanova explosion, and the Steam creature incursion into Lornar’s).

Shiren.9532:

How many sylvari in the Secondborn? I vaguely recall the sylvari were born exponentially faster as the generations progressed, but weren’t the Secondborn somewhat limited in number?

We don’t know their numbers – yet – we just have 5 named confirmed members. Ceara would make 6.

Tamias.7059:

Finally, Scarlet’s holo-recording:
-snip-
That’s all I saw in there, although I’m sure it’s possible I missed something.

Just to note, Taimi’s lines were unrelated to the holo-recording except for “I’m here, Scarlet. I’m here.”

The rest just randomly occur as she goes about the room. I remained in there while writing up this thread and she just repeated those things over and over.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

It’s a small point anyway, but I’m not sold that Ceara was secondborn- that would have required Mender Serimon to already be holding that job perhaps as soon as a couple days after he awoke. Seeing as we don’t know how long passed between the secondborn and thirdborn, and that the firstborn (our only point of comparison) are made out to have all awoken within a pretty narrow window, I would guess that Ceara was thirdborn, coming in the same year as the secondborn but with enough time between them for Serimon to progress beyond being a sapling himself.

The oldest Secondborn would be 17 years old by 1325 AE. The youngest would be 16.

She HAS to be a Secondborn, reason being: She was Scarlet Briar after she turned 16. And she was Scarlet Briar in early 1325 AE or late 1324 AE – reason we know this: Steam Incursion meta event and Thaumanova Reactor explosion. She was Scarlet Briar when both happened, and both happened very recently. In 1325 AE, the youngest Secondborn would be 1309 would be 16. So she has t obe in the older half of the Secondborn (those born 6 years after the Firstborn rather than those born 7 years after), so that she would thus be 16 in 1324 AE.

If she turned 16 any sooner, then she would be older than the Secondborn.

And yes, it means that she was “Scarlet Briar” for about 2 years when we met her.

It’s the only way the timeline makes sense. Any other outcome means “ArenaNet flubbed up with this episode alone.” Because even if you ignore all we learned in Season 1, this is the only logical conclusion: she turned 16 sometime in 1324 AE.

Furthermore, the recordings – I realize upon thinking further – have to be based during the time that she was studying under Synergetics, with the Inquest, or under Omadd after her hiding. The timeline doesn’t make sense either way.

But what this means is that the hand-written journal from Season 1 HAD to be finished writing while Scarlet knew of asura technology (she spent ~1 year in each college and several months later in hiding, which would put her at the latest joining the first college in 1322 or 1323 AE, but more likely 1321/1322). Which means her holo-recordings didn’t begin when she first entered the colleges, but sometime after.

It is the only possible way to make sense of this confusion that is her timeline.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Personally, coming away from this- I think we may have been overstating the connection between Scarlet’s insanity and the voices in her head. Between the indication that Ceara was struggling with the entity before going into the machine and the reaffirmation that she didn’t break until Omadd’s experiment, I’m tempted to say that we have no reason to say they’re interlinked at all.

Yeah, I was beginning to think such as well.

My question becomes, however, “when did Ceara first enter Dry Top, and how far west did she go?”

I think this may be suitable evidence to argue that the entity is not Mordremoth after all. At least per the current theorycrafting. According to my calculations in Scarlet’s timeline, she first met the entity while studying under the asura – the entire journal from S1 would take place during her studying Dynamics and Statics (possibly Synergetics at the end too).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Also, how in the Realm of Torment did Marjory find out about the contents of Scarlet’s vision?

I was wondering this as well.

I’m guessing she got the Pale Tree to talk, because other than recordings we never knew of, the Pale Tree would be the only source.

Stooperdale.3560:

What if it isn’t the Pale Tree at the center of Scarlet’s map but the Tower of Nightmares instead?

The fact it’s a white tree-like drawing would argue otherwise.

Whatever the Master is doing, it doesn’t include Glint’s body. The reason why I can say this with absolute certainty is the skill challenge, which says:

“The magical energies of the dragon champion Glint still linger around the wreckage of this garden used by her Zephyrite followers to grow their Aspect crystals from her crystalline remains.”

It sounds like they turned Glint’s body into their “Crystal Garden” (per the skill challenge name) and grow Aspect crystals from her remains – perhaps the Quartz too, given the blue coloring of the crystal. Given the skill challenge, though we don’t actually see anything (shame on you Anet, we know you have crystal models that could have been used for appearance!) it seems to indicate that most of Glint’s body is supposed to be at that skill challenge or just simply dismembered.

Ronin.7381:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In fact, the notion that sylvari can be corrupted by Mordremoth heavily hints that they are not Mordremoth’s minions.

1: Sons of Svanir.
2: The Branded

I think it’s kind of pointless to argue over speculative definitions of minions when if their actions fall in line with said dragon’s wishes, they’re practically doing the bidding regardless.

I’m not sure what your point in listing the Sons of Svanir and the Branded are.

The Branded are Kralkatorrik’s minions. The Sons of Svanir aren’t minions but are fanatics following Jormag.

What does this have to do with me saying that “the fact that Mordremoth may be capable of corrupting sylvari means only that they are susceptible to Mordremoth’s corruption.” exactly?

Ronin.7381:

Actually, in no other instance have we ever seen a corrupted Sylvari. The Nightmare Court would be a prime target but Sylvari are not present in Jormag, Kralks, Prim, or Zhaitan’s forces. The only instance in which we see Zhaitan affecting Sylvari is in the Sylvari village in Kissex Hills where they appear sick. Scarlet was not physically sick, she started out as a curious individual learning what she could about a threat that had no name but spoke to her.

That wasn’t Zhaitan’s actual corruption – we see similar things in Bloodtide Coast with quaggan, where they can get sick and even die but not corrupted.

We know full well what happens when a sylvari is touched by Zhaitan’s or Kralkatorrik’s corruption (as well as general “corrupted by Elder Dragons”):

“While the other races may be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, turned into undead minions or crystalline creatures of the Brand, the sylvari are never turned. Those born of the Pale Tree simply die before the corruption takes hold.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20110815225850/http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/

DarcShriek.5829:

And yet, here you are. your presence here seems to contradict that you’re sick of it.

Being sick of something does not mean that one will avoid it at all costs. It just means they’re tired of seeing it pop up.

Shiren.9532:

Aerin doesn’t consider the Dream a burden. The Soundless might, but Aerin seems very happy to embrace his connection with the Pale Tree and share his experiences with others – so far as he intends to write a journal so that people who can’t Dream will know what he knows. There is no way for the Zephyrites to know for sure what Aerin is doing. If they want him to be Soundless to keep secrets, how would they know he’s not pretending to meditate? It’s completely unenforceable. Sylvari get by fine in the Order of Whispers.

I never said Aerin considers the Dream a burden.

And I don’t think it wouldn’t be un-enforceable. He was clearly highly interested in joining them, so given that personality it seems he’d readily agree to such. Plus there was another sylvari there, and he’d likely be able to tell whether another’s Soundless or not. Though I’m half-speculating on that.

Shiren.9532:

Then why do we never come across sylvari referred to as Soundless outside of the Weeping Isle? Why is Scarlet never refereed to as Soundless? You say one can consider Scarlet Soundless, but no-one ever does.

1) Because those who make themselves known as Soundless stick to that one small community. However, not all Soundless are there, as there is no Firstborn there and the Soundless meditations were begun by a Firstborn.

2) Because people likely don’t know that she was disconnected from the Dream (as we only know it due to the short story and some interviews)? And also if they do know such (which would really be limited to Vorpp, Pale Tree, the biconics, and the PC if that) they likely either wouldn’t tarnish the Soundless community or consider her of the usually peaceful Soundless community.

3) Just because no NPC considers such, doesn’t mean it can’t be considered.

Point 3: Scarlet and the ley lines
Though we see stuff about ley lines in what have been calling a drawing of the Realm of Torment (the characters call it a sylvari’s view of Tyria, mapping the ley lines, with the Pale Tree in the center of it all – I doubt it, personally, on both accounts) with the hologram recorder though, she only mentions ley line study after becoming Scarlet Briar.

This – as well as her buying a room in Prosperity after becoming Scarlet, with her inquisitions on the ley line beneath the mines – indicates to me that all her interest in those came from the entity, and it may be possible that as Ceara, she never had an interest in them.

Point 4: The Coffin with Tentacles
This is another thing that intrigues me. What was the purpose of this apparent “coffin” that had tentacles coming out of it? A prison for Mordremoth? A bio-engineered cyberminion of Mordremoth’s? An imprisoned kraken? Hard to say. But looking at the diagram, my thoughts went to Rata Sum with that cube shape.

So I took my time to look thoroughly through the room at the end of the episode and there were some things that grabbed my attention interestingly. Most coming from the holoprojector, and focus around two things: Scarlet’s age, and Scarlet’s interactions with the entity.

Point 1: Scarlet’s Age
Firstly, regarding Scarlet’s age, the holoprojector has a recording which says the following:

“Today I am sixteen cycles old, and to celebrate, I’ve been testing my first steam portal with steam minotaurs. The last batch actually made it in one piece.”

And just preceding such is:

“I’ve landed a lab assistant position with Omadd, an intelligent but overly gentle asura. I should be able to wrap him around my little finger.”

According to previous knowledge (learned during Tower of Nightmares’ aftermath), Omadd was the one who got Scarlet into the colleges, so one can presume that the mention of being a lab assistant preludes her joining the colleges. What’s interesting to note is that the written diary mentions that she will stop writing – take into consideration the diary from Season 1 which ends with 1323 AE, this means that she was younger than 16 by that point. However, she’s 16 before becoming Scarlet Briar – which we know for certain due to the Thaumanova situation to occur before 1325 AE. This means that the recordings of at least the first to until she says “I have seen the Eternal Alchemy.” is within that 2 year timespan – presuming that there is no oversight. (Side note: though the holograms in A Study in Scarlet include stuff that was pre-renaming herself, unlike this hologram she keeps the same tone and name throughout, which I will get to later as it is something else that caught my interest).

Now, as the sylvari Firstborn were born in 1302 AE, and the Secondborn born 6-7 years later (thus 1308-1309 AE). Well, 16 years before 1325 AE is 1309 AE and 16 years prior to 1323 AE is 1307 AE.

This means that Scarlet Briar is a Secondborn. And the “I am sixteen years old now” bit happened in either 1324 or 1325 AE – the latter unlikely given Thaumanova and how many lines there are before she becomes Scarlet Briar. And even then, it is after she becomes Scarlet Briar that she becomes interested in ley lines (also more on this later).

This means that Scarlet was most likely born in the first of the two years of Secondborn, but after Mender Serimon. Interesting that this has never actually been brought up.

Something interesting to note, however, is the fully lack of mention of nightmares or a voice in her head in the holo-recordings, indicating that maybe there was an oversight with that mention of no more written diaries.

And this said though, it should be noted that she only went to Prosperity after becoming Scarlet Briar, which itself is interesting too, given Aerin and the theory of Mordy’s corruption being a distance thing with plants (or at least sylvari). Makes me wonder where Omadd’s machine was.

Point 2: Scarlet’s Voice – Ceara versus Scarlet Briar
Perhaps the most fascinating thing to me about hte hologram is that she begins with a cheerful (and not the mockingly cheerful we’re used to) voice and the hologram is named Ceara. However, halfway through, with the line “I have seen the Eternal Alchemy.” the recordings change. The name goes to Scarlet Briar, and her voice becomes menacing – and distorted, which I find to be the weirdest part.

To go off of the first side note above: her name is always Scarlet Briar and her voice always menacing in A Study in Scarlet for those holograms, meaning that those holograms are not recordings of the time, but recollections of Scarlet Briar – reenactments done for her recordings. Perhaps a ploy to remind herself who she is with that encroaching voice in her head?

During Season 1 when we first got her diary, there was note in the voice change, and said that it was important. It seems that they’re keeping up with that as we delve further into her history.

The distortion I find intriging, and I wonder what caused it. If we subscribe to the “entity is Mordremoth and Scarlet was his corrupted into his champion” then one could argue it was distorted because it’s _magi_tech, and she was unknowingly consuming some of the magic in it, making it function at less than optimal amounts.

@BrotherBelial: The risen remained a threat despite Zhaitan’s death, so any “Overgrown” as Mordremoth’s minions seem to be called will remain as well. Same with Icebrood, Destroyers, Branded, and whatever the DSD’s minion will be.

Why couldn’t Aerin have become Soundless? The Zephyrites are all about secrecy, and we are told that the Dream has no knowledge of the Zephyr Sanctum and the Zephyrites when they first visit despite there being a Zephyrite sylvari! Furthermore, it was said during Aerin’s many dialogues by a Zephyrite that it is customary for new passengers who join them to leave their burdens behind – and to them, the Dream may constitute as a burden as well as a security leak. So enforcing sylvari to undergo Soundless-ness is not out of the realm of likeliness.

Furthermore, the Soundless is more than just a group – becoming Soundless is literally part of removing oneself from the Dream, so yes, one can consider Scarlet a Soundless – but one that was made Soundless against her own will (well, arguably so – as she did leave the Pale Tree’s protection willingly, and this may have been the act of her losing her ties to the Dream, whether she realized it would or not).

But just because Aerin acts one way before the trip doesn’t mean that he didn’t change on the ship. In fact, we know he changed on the ship – it was during the travel that Aerin went insane, according to the Master of Peace.

And regarding that Zephyrite sylvari of generic naming… who’s to say he wasn’t turned by Mordremoth or whatever turned Aerin insane as well? We haven’t seen a sylvari Zephyrite since the ship crashed! No body nor NPC! In fact, Aerin is the only sylvari seen in all of Dry Top, I believe.

Yes, they were red thorns and that’s where Ceara got her new name – and she even thought she was those red thorns (so caught up in herself she was), though that may be true it may also be an entering into dragon minion hive mind stuff. cough

Angel McCoy.1832:

In our minds, this is your PC’s story. Just because you can watch your spouse go through their dramas, and you accompany your spouse to the grocery store, doesn’t mean it’s your spouse’s story that you’re living.

Wait… are you saying… that Trahearne is our character’s spouse?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Personal Story spoilers

hide spoiler

Bottom line is that, at the beginning of the Pact (almost 2 years ago in-game time), you were “The Commander.” After Zhaitan was killed, the Pact continued on and you went off into the world to do stuff. At that point, other commanders were brought on, and you become “A Commander.” And you became a commander who had lots of other things to do besides running an army that was repairing, preparing, and stocking up for the next big battle with the Elder Dragons. We could not build a story on that alone, not a good one that made sense, not considering where we want the story to take you. Any time anyone calls you “The Commander” now, it’s someone being nostalgic. It’s perhaps more correct to say you were “The First Commander.” That helps us explain why you’ve been running around the world saving people as opposed to being locked in a war room with Trahearn. I’ll see what I can do to get this explanation into the game.

Hmmm…

Firstly, we see at least two Commanders of the Pact in the initial release alone. One’s in Citadel of Flame explorable (Commander Suma), and one is in Frostgorge Sound (Commander Wik Tailbiter). There’s also a Commander (charr, vigil armor) in southern Timberline Falls, but there’s no Commander rank in the Vigil so that leads one to believe… Pact (ironically, all “Commanders” that are with or near Pact forces are charr and Vigil). So players by all appearances were always a Commander from the get go – to those who paid attention.

Secondly, I disagree that “repairing, preparing, and stocking up for the next big battle with the Elder Dragons” cannot deliver a good storyline. This is what all of Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age: Origins pretty much are. The primary course of the story is about you building up your forces by solving local problems while fighting some forefront threat, before you end up being ready and take out the background threat.

This is, in fact, how most stories that revolve around some world-ending threat go. Most of the plot is about building up forces and fighting someone who isn’t actually the big bad and you know he/she isn’t, and then after beating that someone you can finally go after the big bad in a climatic battle.

And interestingly enough, those are greatly acclaimed games there. And personally? Amongst my favorite.

Thirdly, a huge problem with what you said here is that it is never even brought up that we left the Pact. In fact, in Flame and Frost when you first meet Rox, if you talk to Smodur he says, and I quote: “What’s a commander of the Pact doing here? I thought you had dragons to fight.”

There was no “I’m going on leave.” There was no “good job, Commander, now go have some well deserved R&R.” Or anything of the like. Just a vanishing act. Most militaries would consider this deserting and execute the deserter. Tyria sure is lenient!

Angel McCoy.1832:

RyuDragnier.9476:

About those last spoilers Angel, have you thought that maybe you should make it so there are multiple fronts, and that the pact is also hot on the heels of the other elder dragons?

We have lots of conversations here about the many places we could take the story, and ultimately, it comes down to what we think would be the most fun. We can only make so much content, so we have to carefully choose which content we make.

If we split our attention to two storylines, then neither one gets our full attention.

We, like you, want the most bang for your buck!

I don’t think Ryu was saying to split the storyline, but rather to have it stated in-game – perhaps shown in-game – that the Pact is fighting on multiple fronts – in the Far Shiverpeaks, in the Dragonbrand close to the Crystal Desert, and elsewhere that dragon minions can be found.

Angel McCoy.1832:

We felt it was important to allow you to customize your PC and in doing so, we gave up some of the opportunity to customize the story to every single PC in the game in every single moment of the game. Instead, we try to bring you moments where you are singled out with customized text in conversations (which you may not even always notice because you don’t see the other options).

Okay, this downright sounds contradictory to me. You want to allow customization to the PCs, but part of that is customizing the story. And you give the establishment for these via the biography options (and later choices)! You have shown you can do these.

But after the Personal Story, you stop that, and only customize the story for what you mentioned second in the quote: singled out lines and dialogues that folks may not even realize are differentiations.

What happened to the story divergences like choosing which Order has the best plan for invading further into Orr? Or choosing what your greatest fear is and having that decide a storyline?

Sounds to me like either you don’t want to continue doing such, because it’s obviously more work, or you just can’t for some reason you don’t want to share (or can’t and maintain the rather silly biweekly update set-up).

Honestly, I would take story divergences or obvious minor story alterations far, far more than I would take more lines from the Player Character. Even if it’s something as adding in a certain charr warband that just so happens to be charr PCs’ warbands.

And bring back the personality system and make it more powerful. Those subtle occasional lines that pop up only if you’re of a certain personality were lovely traits… and now they don’t pop up anymore. Why? Why remove it? Why cease using it?

Angel McCoy.1832:

Our original thought was that you would add the personality to the words when you heard them in your head. We still know you will do that, but we’re now more comfortable with having your PC say things that commit to an idea or a knowledge or a thought that you the player might not have had. Our goal is to increase immersion and make you feel more like it’s your PC’s story.

To me, those who care about unique PCs with unique personalities and unique backgrounds would see the main storyline as either altered from its delivered version (to match what’s in their character as per their own vision but still following the storyline), or like me consider “not my fanon’s involvement”.

Those who don’t, will not care whether the PC’s saying things matches their ‘head canon’ (as I’ve heard some call such) because they don’t have such.

Angel McCoy.1832:

If every single person in this fantasy world knew your name and knew that YOU were the one at the forefront of killing Zhaitan, then it wouldn’t be very realistic.

Zhaitan was killed. Confirmed.

;)

However, an action so much as killing Zhaitan – I think anyone who isn’t a hermit would know the name of Zhaitan’s killer after 2 years. The face? No, not really. They may know a description, but not a face. But name? Yes.

To me, that’s what would be realistic. The tales would be exaggerated, but it would be known.

To quote an NPC in Nightfall:

“Your name is growing beyond your stature, hero. I thought you would be fifteen feet tall!”

That’s kind of what I would expect.

math.6843:

well vines dont flash purple…

Apparently big ones do.

Mordremoth had scales in the cinematic, so it’s unlikely that he’s made of vegetation too. Unless they do the same as with Zhaitan’s appearance changing, but that was meant to represent what our player characters thought Zhaitan would look like, while the cinematic that shows Mordremoth is meant to show the players something that their characters don’t know or see. (According to devs in two separate spots).

Furthermore, “purple” had been explained to be used to define evil. And we see purple in the more corrupted places of Orr, specifically Desmina Hallows and Arah.

Most likely, those purple vines are just cases of “stronger corruption” by Mordremoth.

lorddavito.2395:

Weird thing about that vine (Orangensaft) posted, I’ve seen it aswell.. and every creature around it that gets close gets the same effect as the mobs in the Thermanova reactor..

If you’re talking about the non-plant creatures there, then they’ve been like that since release. Toxal Bog is full of a spill of Thaumanova’s chaos magic explosion, in part thanks to the Inquest lab just north of it which houses Thaumanova’s energy core (it’s a skill challenge).

E is human. Male. Yeah… Not Evon.

It’s clearly Edair.

Or Faren.

Or most likely, imo, the Master of Peace. Yus.

Tamias.7059:

I did read your (first) post in full; you just hadn’t posted your second reply at the time I started writing mine. I also wasn’t insinuating that you didn’t know anything about wiki documentation; I was addressing Bobby (or whoever cared to read my post) at that point. But yeah, every response where I’m not sagely agreeing with you is probably due to petty rivalry (on my part, of course). Gosh, how embarrassing for me to have gotten so riled up in my reply.

I know how fast you can reply. I find it hard to believe you took that long to reply and missed my second post. And you never changed the direction of who you’re responding to, your entire post looks like you’re talking to me. So of course I’ll take it as if you’re addressing me rather than Bobby (or whoever else cared to read your post). And I never said you had to agree with me, let alone “sagely” so. This post of your insulting sarcasm was in your previous post when I read it. It’s tiresome and rather pathetic to read.

It was only at the last paragraph that it began to appear like you were addressing Bobby, which is why I didn’t quote it. Your very first sentence was responding to me, saying I’m not telling the truth, and explaining that it’s “just not on the wiki” as if you’re trying to correct me.

I could have just quoted this:

This just isn’t true. The problem isn’t that there’s no lore in events. The problem is just that it’s all gone undocumented. Look at this wiki page. If you looked at that, you’d think that there’s no dialogue worth documenting associated with that event; there isn’t even a dialogue section on that page. But in fact, dialogue for this event does exist, and what’s more, it contains a fair amount of lore.

and my reply to your would be fully accurate and the same.

They are acting individually. But this doesn’t mean they’re rivals.

That’s really all we know for certain. We don’t see them attacking each other actively, but we know that minions that happen to wander near each other will fight to the death like when they meet any other living being. We know they function individually and don’t have a hierarchy, but this doesn’t mean they’re not friendly.

The only in-game case of dragon minions interacting with each other is Crucible of Eternity, but here they’re all under the control of Subject Alpha who was corrupted by the energies of five Elder Dragons (and control those five dragons’ minions). So that’s not a proper example for that.

Trahearne didn’t get all the credit, however. He got some of it, but you still got the majority of it.

Tamias.7059:

This just isn’t true. The problem isn’t that there’s no lore in events. The problem is just that it’s all gone undocumented. Look at this wiki page. If you looked at that, you’d think that there’s no dialogue worth documenting associated with that event; there isn’t even a dialogue section on that page. But in fact, dialogue for this event does exist, and what’s more, it contains a fair amount of lore. We learn about the Festival of Lights and a little more about Doric, and in subsequent events we finally learn more about Malchor, and we see him somehow staving off dragon corruption (these dialogues are on the wiki now, but for the first year and a half since launch they weren’t).

There’s a lot of ambient dialogue that contains lore that just hasn’t been documented, because it triggers unreliably and, more importantly, doesn’t appear in the chat box. Nearly all of the ambient dialogue in the Labyrinthine Cliffs was like this, and as a wiki editor I can tell you it made it extremely difficult to document :P In fact, it was only with the help of Project Eavesdrop that I didn’t go crazy trying to get all of the pre-Festival of the Four Winds dialogue onto the wiki! Another example is Kessex Haven; more dialogue that has been in the game since release but has only just made it onto the wiki. There’s some incredibly intriguing stuff in there, such as rumours of mountains in Giant’s Passage mysteriously rumbling, and tense centaur relations with Lion’s Arch (which hasn’t been documented yet). These are just the two examples that I’ve gone out of my way to look for, but I’m sure there are many more locations with just as much depth.

If you weren’t so apparently caught up in being a petty rival with me, you’d realize that I wasn’t talking about the wiki’s documentation but the actual dialogue in-game.

And if you had actually read my post in full and not just to a point where you can logically deduce a false outcome of my post as you always do whenever you argue with me in said petty rivalry, you’d realize that I mentioned the event you used as an example of one of the very few event chains that do provide lore.

I am well aware of each bit you mention, but so few of those are in actual events! MOST events’ voiced lines don’t provide any lore. There are some, but a significantly insignificant amount of events in the grand scale of things. There is lore in them, but not in the lines themselves, and you can easily replace the current lines with generic lines and not lose a single thing for most events.

Your obvious lack of reading my post in full is downright insulting. And it is further insulting to insinuate that I know nothing or little of wiki documentation and the game’s lore, despite the fact that you so obviously do as we’ve had not-too-friendly interactions over the years regarding such topics. You know that I know this, and you know that I know that you know this. To say otherwise either proves you’re incredibly forgetful, or you’re being an kitten through feigning ignorance.

We’re in the Wastes, technically speaking, and we must go through the Wastes to reach the actual jungle part of the Maguuma Jungle (well, reach other other part of the jungle part – it makes a C shape with the Tarnished Coast being the southeastern lip).

The description only said that in the Heart of Abaddon, Abaddon was imprisoned with waterfalls of pure torment continuously flowing on him for the past 1,000 years.

Given the entire nature of the Realm of Torment, it seems likely that it was part of the location, and not something designed solely by the gods. But either can be so, and regardless nothing says it has changed. 8D

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Realm-of-Torment-Likeness/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/s2/Spoiler-Realm-of-torment-reference/first

In short, to quote myself from both threads:

The issue is that the idea of an alchemy circle being used to map out the Mists predates that – in Prophecies and Factions’ backgrounds you could sometime see some faint alchemy circle – it was brought up once what this was, and the response was Lord Odran’s map of the Mists. It should be noted that there were three total designs seen in GW1 – one of which was the Realm of Torment map, and the third was a dual disjointed half-circle (in that there were two “half-circles” which are a bit messed up and not lined up to each other) used in the background of some Nightfall stuff.

In at least the synergetics intro choice, you can see an alchemy circle much like this, and the description led to the circle that surrounds the tree drawing fits as well.

Maps of the Mists, the “maps” of Eternal Alchemy, and what appears to be a mapping of what surrounds the Pale Tree… all appear very similar.

For those who don’t know what I speak of in all this:

• Original Prophecies Alchemy Circle
• Nightfall Alchemy Circle
• Realm of Torment world map

And here’s one of a few old discussions on that alchemy circle after being told what it truly is.

I’ll have to actually go make a new character to get the circles in the asura intro cinematic. But this is all irrelevant to talking about Mordremoth’s corruption of Soundless.

Though it does make an interesting furthering of the Dream and the Mists’ potential ties.

If the drawing was the Realm of Torment, that’d put the Pale Tree at the center of it – which would lorewise be the Heart of Abaddon, the deepest and most central part of the Realm of Torment in which Abaddon was imprisoned for 1,000 years, and on top of that, was put in constant ultimate torment for all that time. Which would mean the Pale Tree would also be in constant pain and agony… and that doesn’t seem the case.

To me, Zin, you’re blindly defending that sylvari are dragon minions.

There’s a very huge difference between “the sylvari are dragon minions” and “the sylvari are vulnerable to only one dragon’s corruption.”

In fact, the notion that sylvari can be corrupted by Mordremoth heavily hints that they are not Mordremoth’s minions. Freed or not. Because Kralkatorrik couldn’t re-corrupt Glint, by all appearances (when asked to Jeff and Ree what becomes of Glint’s ‘baby,’ they outright said it’s unknown if it can be corrupted, and iirc, hint to Glint being not re-corruptable by Kralkatorrik).

As drax says, all we have seen says one thing:

Mordremoth knows how to bypass or remove whatever keeps sylvari from being corruptible.

Just to clarify my point above: I’m not saying all events should have generic dialogue. Rather, I’m saying that if it isn’t obviously unique in feel and flavor and lore, it should be generic to save up on costs so that there can be more unique ones.

Example: my most memorable event chains are the ones revolving around Webb and Broil Cane – why? Because they have their own fully unique storyline to them. But events like the dozen ‘defend x camp from the centaurs’? They feel so similar that the fact that they have so similar-but-different lines is a bit jarring, because it feels like wasted money to give a sense of uniqueness to something that’s just not unique.

In all of the game, there are only six event (chains) that have kept to me: the two above, the one around the Dragon’s Eye, the one in Aurora’s Remains, and the chains at the Temples of Dwayna and Lyssa. The reason being is that out of all the events throughout the game, those give the most story or lore, and don’t feel like generic events. The Dragon’s Eye one barely makes it, and it only sticks to my memory due to the lore behind it, not for the unique voice acting lines (unlike the other five).

BobbyStein.2315:

For you, the game should be about the PC at the expense of the open world content and ambience. For me, and for Guild Wars 2, it’s about the world as a whole since it’s a cooperative, shared environment. Neither approach is wrong, but we decided to put more of our resources into bringing the world to life. I don’t regret that at all.

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, it’s the reality of game development. You have limited budget and time to work with, so scope must be adjusted to fit. Features must be prioritized, and sometimes that means cutting content or systems.

While I get that there’s a limit with budget and time, I feel that you’re skipping the crux of the issue.

Go out, play the game, listen to the dialogue there is.

Now tell me, how much lore and story do you get out of those events? Those hours upon hours of voice acted lines in all those events? In all honesty, there are so very little lore in the events of the game, and most – if not all – of it comes from text box dialogue! That’s just downright silly to me.

If I were running that and saw how events were having no true context given in the spoken dialogue, I’d re-use generic line for NPCs of similar race and gender. Get 10-15 voice actors, one or so sessions (depending on how much one can get done in a session), and just record a bunch of generic lines – from “follow me” to “defend me” and so forth. And you have the dialogue for thousands of events – with no quality loss to the current set up of events. The sad thing is, most events already have generic sounding lines, but it’s an obviously different recording each time. While that is great for widespread immersion – NPCs don’t sound exactly the same everywhere one goes – it reduces one from the more story-related voice recording.

Already the system you have up forces lore related dialogue in events to be in text boxes. For example, most Orr events just talk about “finding a relic” but we never find out what the relic is or anything of the like. Only the beginning and ending voiced lines really need to be unique – and this is only to provide lore. And even then, not all have to be 100% unique. But that’s what you do. And like I said, it’s great for immersion, but then you lose your ability to go after the more story-focused lines. You lose your ability to actually let the players hear the lore of the game, and instead you force them to talk to the NPC in the middle of an event to read about the lore. And in sadly most cases, very little at that.

Now, I’m not saying “voice PCs” – instead, I’m saying “use generic lines for non-story/lore-giving stuff, because they’re practically all the same anyways.” And you can even alter tones and whatnot to have the same recorded line work for multiple NPCs (even races) and still sound different enough.

Honestly, I don’t care if the PC is voiced or not. Though I would have preferred them not-voiced from the get go except conditional lines, and having the tone for those chooseable amongst a set, and give the PC a dialogue tree – much like Dragon Age: Origins overall.

BobbyStein.2315:

What sort of stories would you like to see?

While I do not agree to the… vehemency of Thalador’s post, I have to agree with his intention in terms of the direction of story.

The first two chapters of the personal story, as well as the fourth chapter (the first one with your mentor – before going to the racial sympathies) were the most unique storylines in Guild Wars 2 to date. Arguably the dungeon story modes too.

Aside from those, which focus on subterfuge, underhanded plots, personal battles, and other such things, all we get are “dragons causing mass destruction! dragons causing death! dragons! dragons! DRAGONS!”

Or supplement “Dragons” with “Scarlet” or “Karka” or “Alliances”.

Canach’s plot is arguably the most unique of the Living Story’s plots.

But compared to GW1? Even that appears the same with different flavors.

I think when we finally leave Tyria, there will be a chance at a new kind of storyline. But it seems like the intention is to go through the major dragons first, which will be all the same overarching kind of story.

But in Tyria, the Orders have such a minor role in what makes them unique (most of their roles is related to the Pact in the players’ eye) that there really doesn’t seem like much point to them. Sure, in lore they’re distinctively different, but this isn’t really portrayed to the players.

Which is where I think the crux of the issue is: portrayal to the players. This was one of Scarlet Briar and her alliance’s biggest downfalls in most players’ views – how she was delivered and how much information we, the players, got at each update. This seems to have improved a bit with Season 2 – hard to say with only one sample – but compared to GW1 this is incredibly pathetic, to be blunt. Just look at all those events in the world. Thousands of events, and how much of them give worthwhile story and plot? Barely a few. All those in Orr talk about relics and artifacts and knowledge… but we never see or are told anything about this stuff. We are given a bunch of points of interests, but know next to nothing about the history of these places – take the Zaishen Anthanium. Why were the Zaishen there? What was the places purpose? Why is there a statue of Grenth and coffins there instead of a statue of Balthazar? And for crying out loud what are those researcher asura looking for? We never learn. We’re never even given a hint to it.

And with Season 1, all the “we won’t tell you” was defined for the reason of “we’re saving it for later”. Yeah, sure, later when everyone grows tired of getting jack and kitten for lore and story and those who care for such leave. Guild Wars 2, now: “there’s stuff happening, but you barely know any of it!” Guild Wars 2, 5 years from now: “and THIS is the revelation you waited 6 years for!” That’s what it views to me like we’re getting when we’re told “it’s a story for later.”

I get that development takes time but honestly, it really feels like ArenaNet is intentionally putting out as little content as possible, given how much GW1 gave and made for money, and how successful GW2 was at launch with selling. And given how we’ve heard nothing about Jeff and Ree for the past 2 years now, in terms of what they’re working on – other than the novel Sea of Sorrows for Ree, that is.

And I’m getting into a tangent now, but it’s all frustrating.

What do I want to see with storytelling? Pretty much what Thalador wants to see, really. Variety. And actual lore delivery. Not breadcrumbs spread over the years. That’s not interesting – it may be in the short run, but people grow tired and forget things eventually, and we’ll just waltz away to more interesting games. Like most of [Lore] has.

Well, usually, humans don’t live 250 years. And we have no reason to believe Evennia is one of those exceptions.

As Kalavier said, each race (and engineers) all get unique dialogues here and there.

Charr tend to get unique lines with Rox, knowing about the charr system that other races don’t. Norn tend to get unique lines with Braham. Sylvari have gotten unique responses (and lines) from Kasmeer’s anti-sylvari mentions in the past (and in this update, they recognized the Soundless mantra according to Aaron).

Jaken.6801:

I personally do not want to be their leader. I want to be on the same level as them, as a band of adventurers (if i have to be, its not like i have a choice)… what are your thoughts?
Do you like being their “boss”?

I think it makes sense from both a story version and a development version.

In the latter, they need to call you something. So it’s either “boss” or “leader”, using a title like “Dragonslayer” (used in final Victory or Death instance) or “Commander” (which we haven’t done much as anyways), or going with general “you”. I personally do not want to be called “hey you” by those I work with constantly.

In the former, we have more experience than the others. We defeated Zhaitan and an Ancient Karka (and then some) before we even met the others, and when Scarlet reared her ugly head, we were there for it all. We have the experience in adventuring and dealing with the big bads that they lack. So they look to the PC for advice, because the PC knows what’s what in the general sense now.

When the game started, we were underlings, basically, beneath Destiny’s Edge. Now, with Zhaitan’s defeat, we’re on par to Destiny’s Edge members and the biconics are under us.

So yes, I do like being “the boss” just because it makes complete literary sense.

As I said elsewhere on this topic:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The issue is that the idea of an alchemy circle being used to map out the Mists predates that – in Prophecies and Factions’ backgrounds you could sometime see some faint alchemy circle – it was brought up once what this was, and the response was Lord Odran’s map of the Mists. It should be noted that there were three total designs seen in GW1 – one of which was the Realm of Torment map, and the third was a dual disjointed half-circle (in that there were two “half-circles” which are a bit messed up and not lined up to each other) used in the background of some Nightfall stuff.

In at least the synergetics intro choice, you can see an alchemy circle much like this, and the description led to the circle that surrounds the tree drawing fits as well.

Maps of the Mists, the “maps” of Eternal Alchemy, and what appears to be a mapping of what surrounds the Pale Tree… all appear very similar.

For those who don’t know what I speak of in all this:

• Original Prophecies Alchemy Circle
• Nightfall Alchemy Circle
• Realm of Torment world map

And here’s one of a few old discussions on that alchemy circle after being told what it truly is.

I’ll have to actually go make a new character to get the circles in the asura intro cinematic. But this is all irrelevant to talking about Mordremoth’s corruption of Soundless.

Though it does make an interesting furthering of the Dream and the Mists’ potential ties.

I wouldn’t expect much of the RoT overall, but this does seem to be an overarching background concept going on.

If the drawing was the Realm of Torment, that’d put the Pale Tree at the center of it – which would lorewise be the Heart of Abaddon, the deepest and most central part of the Realm of Torment in which Abaddon was imprisoned for 1,000 years, and on top of that, was put in constant ultimate torment for all that time. Which would mean the Pale Tree would also be in constant pain and agony… and that doesn’t seem the case.

Made this post in another thread that related that drawing to the Realm of Torment map (which incidentally, Mickey posted a modified version in this thread ):

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t get how you jump to “Her protection is tied to Scarlet’s picture of what she thinks is the Eternal Alchemy but is infact the Realm of Torment….”

Specifically the “but is infact the Realm of Torment”. I believe you’re referring to the drawing of a tree in the center of a circle, yes? And you’re taking said circle to be the world map of the Realm of Torment as seen in Nightfall?

The issue is that the idea of an alchemy circle being used to map out the Mists predates that – in Prophecies and Factions’ backgrounds you could sometime see some faint alchemy circle – it was brought up once what this was, and the response was Lord Odran’s map of the Mists. It should be noted that there were three total designs seen in GW1 – one of which was the Realm of Torment map, and the third was a dual disjointed half-circle (in that there were two “half-circles” which are a bit messed up and not lined up to each other) used in the background of some Nightfall stuff.

In at least the synergetics intro choice, you can see an alchemy circle much like this, and the description led to the circle that surrounds the tree drawing fits as well.

Maps of the Mists, the “maps” of Eternal Alchemy, and what appears to be a mapping of what surrounds the Pale Tree… all appear very similar.

For those who don’t know what I speak of in all this:

• Original Prophecies Alchemy Circle
• Nightfall Alchemy Circle
• Realm of Torment world map

And here’s one of a few old discussions on that alchemy circle after being told what it truly is.

I’ll have to actually go make a new character to get the circles in the asura intro cinematic. But this is all irrelevant to talking about Mordremoth’s corruption of Soundless.

Though it does make an interesting furthering of the Dream and the Mists’ potential ties.

I wouldn’t expect much of the RoT overall, but this does seem to be an overarching background concept going on.

If the drawing was the Realm of Torment, that’d put the Pale Tree at the center of it – which would lorewise be the Heart of Abaddon, the deepest and most central part of the Realm of Torment in which Abaddon was imprisoned for 1,000 years, and on top of that, was put in constant ultimate torment for all that time. Which would mean the Pale Tree would also be in constant pain and agony… and that doesn’t seem the case.

To the OP’s connection of the thorned vines with the giant insectoid bodyparts… well, I think that speaks of itself. Those things are according to the gw.dat the body parts of ancient gods of insectoid beings.

Erukk.1408:

The devs didn’t just say Abaddon was dead. They said his storyline was entirely over. His fractal, even if they made, wouldn’t have added anything since it would have only been basically a flashback.

They said both, actually. They had to kill Abaddon off, even if they didn’t want to (Jeff Grubb wanted a redemption story going), so that they can close the storyline.

Because of an obvious note that there’s a 50/50 chance we’ll see something go down at a place that was of semi-relevance already in Season 1?

Honestly, if you’re doing such a dance over that, you must dance a lot. :P

Why would pre-fall Abaddon try to bring about Nightfall?

Nightfall was, in essence, Abaddon escaping his prison that he spent 1,000 years in ultimate torment in. We really don’t know what Abaddon’s views were pre-fall, and may have been noble but disagreeing greatly about the release of magic. It all depends on the sources you look at for how Abaddon is painted. But with no prison to escape, no Realm of Torment to overlap with Tyria, and in truth, no reason to even do that in the first place.

I don’t get how you jump to “Her protection is tied to Scarlet’s picture of what she thinks is the Eternal Alchemy but is infact the Realm of Torment….”

Specifically the “but is infact the Realm of Torment”. I believe you’re referring to the drawing of a tree in the center of a circle, yes? And you’re taking said circle to be the world map of the Realm of Torment as seen in Nightfall?

The issue is that the idea of an alchemy circle being used to map out the Mists predates that – in Prophecies and Factions’ backgrounds you could sometime see some faint alchemy circle – it was brought up once what this was, and the response was Lord Odran’s map of the Mists. It should be noted that there were three total designs seen in GW1 – one of which was the Realm of Torment map, and the third was a dual disjointed half-circle (in that there were two “half-circles” which are a bit messed up and not lined up to each other) used in the background of some Nightfall stuff.

In at least the synergetics intro choice, you can see an alchemy circle much like this, and the description led to the circle that surrounds the tree drawing fits as well.

Maps of the Mists, the “maps” of Eternal Alchemy, and what appears to be a mapping of what surrounds the Pale Tree… all appear very similar.

For those who don’t know what I speak of in all this:

• Original Prophecies Alchemy Circle
• Nightfall Alchemy Circle
• Realm of Torment world map

And here’s one of a few old discussions on that alchemy circle after being told what it truly is.

I’ll have to actually go make a new character to get the circles in the asura intro cinematic. But this is all irrelevant to talking about Mordremoth’s corruption of Soundless.

Though it does make an interesting furthering of the Dream and the Mists’ potential ties.

Belinda was first seen in game during Escape from Lion’s Arch at Kessex Hills.

And bandits are actively allied with centaurs in Harathi Hinterlands too.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Right now any new characters made on an account that already has the episode unlocked on a character will not have access to that episode.

Bold is the issue there buddy. Season 2 is for level 80 characters only, new characters start out as level 2 after the tutorial. You’ll get access to Season 2 on new characters after they become level 80.

Scarlet felt that joy while ignoring, but before she actually crossed the threshold. She was still under the Pale Tree’s protection at that time.

So was Aerin, by all indication.

To be honest, nothing says that the Infinity Ball storyline deals with a fractal (or fractals). “Memories in the Mists” and “Fractals of the Mists” can be entirely different things yet very similar.

I take the “memories in the Mists” thing to be more akin to the vision during A Light in the Darkness. But then again, that in itself could be a form of Fractal! But unlikely. Maybe? Too little information!

But as we see with Dessa, normal fractal beings cannot easily leave their Fractal. Or is Dessa just a unique situation? And per Dessa, fractal beings are known to respawn (this is not just mechanics, it is lore!) as the fractal “resets” itself.

It’s not implied. It’s outright stated by the devs (specifically Angel McCoy) that the Elder Dragons leak out magic when asleep.

That is indeed interesting. Had only seen it on human. Going to have to go through on my sylvari for sure.

Tanith.5264:

Now, here’s the thing. Minutes before the update dropped yesterday, my guild leader noticed that an Anet employee (I believe the guy is a play tester) was visiting Kessex Hills. As this was not the map everyone else was parking their characters in, he wondered right away what our Anet friend was doing there. He said, “There must be something new there too.”

You know that ArenaNet plays the game too, right? Maybe that employee was just doing PS in the area, or felt like mapping that map, or some other such stuff.

Because the soonest something will happen there… is in 2 weeks.

There was more than one peaceful centaur in the Maguuma.

It’s actually the Player Character who presumes Aerin is a Soundless, this being due to the note left about him leaving the Pale Tree and his voice becoming sole in the cacophony.

Unlike what Aaron said, this is not a Soundless mantre per se, but it is very similar to their ideology. Hence the connection made. But that connection is never proven true.

This said, when he joined the Zephyrites one of the dialogues was him asking a Zephyrite where to put his belongings and she replied that it is customary for those joining for the first time leave their burdens on the ground – to which Aerin replied that he would “leave [his] gear and burdens on the dock.”

Combine this with the existence of another Zephyrite sylvari (generic named) and a sylvari mentioning that there’s no knowledge of the Zephyr Sanctum in the Dream of Dreams, and it seems like sylvari must become Soundless to join them (hence leaving burdens behind – the burden of memories and their racial connection).

Elesh.6192:

“I shall record every moment in my journal so that even those who can’t access the Dream know the ~joy~ I’m experiencing.”

Where have we heard of this before?

The Pale Tree’s voice was faint and distant, but it snapped Ceara back to viewing the tree from a distance.
" If you are not one with what you were born to be, you are lost. Worse, you are dangerous."

~~Sheer joy surged through Ceara.~~

“Dangerous, you say? Her thoughts boomed loud as thunder across the void. So be it.”

I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Either these two realized something likewise euphoric, or the same joy was a byproduct of Draconic corruption?

You’re making a connection between Aerin and Scarlet… on the fact that they enjoyed getting what they wanted?

Yeah… a huge amount of sylvari feel joy, throughout the game.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Elder Dragons were stated to have their minions kill the minions of other Elder Dragons….

Mordremoth may be seeking to kill off his rivals….

False.

What was stated is that if dragon minions cross, they’ll attack each other like they’ll attack any other. But elsewhere it’s been stated that the Elder Dragons just don’t care if a few of their weaker minions get killed or even kill each other (this analogy used for the Sons of Svanir killing off female norn icebrood – “oh look, the black ants are killing the red ants” to use Jeff Grubb’s words). And the Elder Dragons are never called rivals, just said they’re not working together. This can mean a bunch of things, really.

Ranael.6423:

Is it not a bit to soon to say that Aerin bad moves means Mordremoth activity? I mean Canach did bad thing without (apparently) being influenced by a dragon…
What I think is Aerin did what he did through avidity of power because apparently that is where it started between Master of Peace and him.

Aerin…

1. Went crazy while aboard the Zephyrite Ship.
2. Started talking to a voice in his head, akin to Scarlet.
3. Claimed to be leaving the Pale Tree, akin to Scarlet.
4. Left a note about a leader falling, not all that different than Scarlet’s attacks on the leaders of the world too, come to think of it.

There’s a lot of similarities between Scarlet and Aerin – though as Taimi said, Scarlet was methodical, Aerin was rampant.

Ranael.6423:

I don’t know how Master of Peace’s voice sounds in other language but in french it sounds quite suspicious. Maybe a voice is no proof of anything but his lines are also quite strange. To me He is going to be someone we are going to fight.

His tone sounded a lot like Jurah from Nightfall to me, when we first hear him speak. It’s that mysterious figurehead who’s good but seems shady kind of voice.

Stooperdale.3560:

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

The wording was “those born of the Pale Tree” die when touched by corruption, rather than becoming corrupted.

lordkrall.7241:

zwierz.9012:

There is also a nice slip up with steam creatures themselves. In season 1 it was stated, that Scarlet reverse engineered the steam machines, while in season 2 the story tells us she has created them.

Bit of a contradiction, I’d say.

Was it stated by Scarlet herself though? As far as I remember it was just ASSUMED to be the case, never confirmed directly by Scarlet.

Indeed. It was just assumed by the Priory at the Marionette that Scarlet reversed engineered the Steam creatures. Why? Because she’s a master of reverse engineering, they said.

It wasn’t undeniable fact, just another case where NPCs can be wrong.

Jaken.6801:

But how does that steam creatures fit in?
If we take the asuran future prediction alternatative universe stuff into account, then that would mean that Scarlet created the steam creatures for our alter ego from the future to conquer their world?

zwierz.9012:

It was assumed, not stated as a certainty, but if Scarlet created them, then Asura PS doesn’t make any sense.

The asura storyline with the Infinity Ball was explained to be taking from a possible future that is nothing more than a memory in the Mists – something non-existent.

Meaning that somewhere, in some of the multiple Tyrias we know to exist, there is the potential future that, instead of Scarlet, the steam creatures were built by an asura ‘student’ of Zojja.

wouw.5837:

But what about the artifacts the vabbian prince found (can’t remember which one) and Balthek, are they still canon?

They’re mentioned in-game, so yes. But nothing says that either came from what would have been Utopia.

And you’re thinking of a scroll that Mehtu the Wise’s men found on an island before said island disappeared without a trace.

Faolain – and the other Courtiers to be honest – act nothing like Ceara and Aerin, to be perfectly honest. So if the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s corruption, then Aerin and Ceara were corrupted in an entirely different – and more powerful given that the Nightmare Court still seek to kill the Elder Dragons – way.

The facts presented in this update regarding the relation between Mordremoth and sylvari:

1. The hylek Explorer Amoxtil mentions the vines baring resemblance to the Nightmare Court’s influence that she’s used to seeing in Caledon Forest, but she hasn’t seen any of the Courtiers around.
2. Aerin and Scarlet Briar are the only known sylvari to have ventured so far west (except perhaps some members of the Sinister Triad, given the presence of Inquest and bandits, and you’re able to ask said hylek about the Sinister Triad, though she mentions that she’s heard naught of such).
3. Aerin is considered to be a Soundless by the PC (this does not mean it is true by the way!), and fell into insanity via split personality-esque complex, much like Scarlet (both in that she disconnected herself from the Dream like Soundless, and she had voices in her head).

So it seems to me that, given all evidence (the above and that which we’ve always known), the following is the situation:
Firstly, the Nightmare is indeed Mordremoth’s corruption, though what’s odd is that unlike all other Elder Dragons, he has no known active champion (unless Faolain or the Shadow of the Dragon count). Without Courtier presence we see thorned vines (not dissimilar to those the Nightmare Court grow), and “Overgrown” Husks and Hounds that share models with Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds.

Secondly, rather than “sylvari are dragon minions” it seems that sylvari – perhaps due to being plants – are susceptible to Mordremoth’s corruption based on proximity and lack of ties to the Dream of Dreams. I argue proximity due to the other Soundless being peaceful, and lack of ties to the Dream because that’s the only shared connection beyond location that Aerin and Ceara hold (also this prevents PCs and NPCs of relevance from becoming susceptible by proximity). Said corruption does not seem to change any physical appearance, however, but changes their personality (which matches the Nightmare Court’s case).

Still though, it should be noted that although incredibly likely, we don’t know if those vines and Overgrown Husks/Hounds are Mordremoth’s doing yet – or if there is a faction of the Nightmare Court (Sinister Triaaaad) around, and they messed with Aerin’s head. We’ll see next update for sure, and I’m guessing it’s the former but honestly? Hoping for the later.