Guild Wars 2

Ceera was arguably the best kitten part of Heart of Thorns.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

-snip-

Pretty sure what he was talking about was the player theories – probably specifically those by Quintus Antonius who had mursaat involved with literally every single theory he ever made – to the point where he claimed mursaat were actually ascended humans, that Lord Ordran was a mursaat, and that mursaat were, effectively, behind every plot in the game.

Tayledras.1604:

The Mursaat coming back is looking more and more like a possibility with the White Mantle resurgence and now this teaser released today.

The teaser shows a stone construct very obviously being powered by a bloodstone shard (and ley-line energy…which seems to be part of the bloodstone…begin speculating).

Could very well be a modified Jade Construct.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jade_construct

First thought was “Barradin Statue rehash” then I saw the base of the Keep Construct (and the name) and thought “Yeah, modified Jade Construct”.

Didn’t see the bloodstone/ley line magic though. Where’d you see that?

Edit: Okay, saw purple-red crystals embedded in it and the golden line of magic as it explodes.

Not sure if those crystals were Bloodstone Shards though – they’re much duller in color, and more reminiscent of the purple crystals of the jade constructs in GW1. I only saw the golden “ley line” line as it exploded, so maybe that was just magic being released as it died?

cptaylor.2670:

It doesn’t look extremely similar, but when I was thinking part of an altar I was thinking about this cinematic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgJC7JK859k

There is no altar there. That’s just the Bloodstone. Nothing more. And there is really no similarity between the two. The inscriptions carved into that Bloodstone and the Ring of Fire Bloodstone (but wholly absent from the Shiverpeak Bloodstone) appears Mursaat/White Mantle in nature and are definitely not like the sharp circles and lines (not runes/inscriptions) of the throne room’s stone.

Sock.2785:

I’m not sure if the seers referred to it as Bloodstone, but, either way, I’m referring to it as Seerstone to differentiate it from the modern bloodstones, which were obtained (and named this way) by King Doric’s plea to the gods.

We don’t know what the Seers called it, but everything referring to the pre-shattered Bloodstone just calls it “the Bloodstone”.

Sock.2785:

“…like when white light passes through a prism and gets separated into its component colors”, with a second prism that makes the light white again.
That was just an analogy (a poor one maybe):

• White light = original magic, Seerstone
• First prism = gods’ intervention
• Component colors = schools of magic, four fragments
• Second prism = Keystone (together with royal blood)

Prism indicates multiple colors. But there is only one color: Red.

There is no prism that you speak of. None at all. There is red, red, red, and more red.

Furthermore, the Bloodstone is crystal. This stone seems to be marble or along those lines.

It’s far more likely that the throne room stone is some trophy from the White Mantle, given that they loved to use marble on all their structures. This would make it plot relevant kitten many apparently want it to be (instead of, y’know, just a cool kitten stone of no importance that some previous king thought “I want that to be behind me when my subjects peer at my gaze; it will show them my awesomeness”), and make it logical to have in the throne room – a show of “this is the remnant of Kryta’s greatest enemies that my family had overthrown, a sign of oppression that I, like my father and his father all the way back to Queen Salma, stand atop of”.

Sock.2785:

I don’t really see how the Keystone is equal in purpose to the others, since the stored magic has been split (divided into four schools) between four of the fragments.

Because magic itself is not the same as the four schools. Because in order to utilize more than one school via tapping the Bloodstones, the Keystone is needed.

Sock.2785:

By keeping the Keystone in the throne room (the throne per se seems to be a red sofa by the way), at the very center of Divinity’s Reach, it will be nicely guarded and hard to reach (unless someone infiltrates the ministry… you know who I mean) – it would be hidden in plain sight.
Also, we are not completely certain that Queen Jennah is the rightful heir to the throne.

There really is no indication that Jennah isn’t a rightful heir. What’s in question is if she’s the only rightful heir. The amulet that has caused everyone to question Jennah’s legitamacy only talks about the next heir to the crown – in other words, it shows who should be crowned should anything happen to Jennah, if the wording is taken at face value. But this isn’t the first mention of another heir being possible – in Chapter 3 of the human personal story, the Order of Whispers contact Ihan mentions that she might not be the “last” heir.

ANYWAYS, as to your reasoning: it makes little sense. In order to unleash magic again, the blood of an heir of King Doric is needed. They are also meant to prevent this from happening. So why would they spend the majority of their time on the very thing that their blood should never touch?

It’s like sleeping next to an adder snake that’s ready to bite you. Not a smart idea.

Not a legendary weapon, you mean. :P

Kamohoali’i is part of real mythology, and I think that’s why Ryouz was asking.

Though Chuka and Champawat and Nevermore don’t have mythological ties like Kamohoali’i, they do have historical reference.

And The Flameseeker Prophecies is an obvious nod to GW1.

Chuka and Champawat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuka_man-eating_tiger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champawat_Tiger

The Bifrost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifrost

Nevermore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raven (Nevermore being a common phrase in the poem The Raven by Edgar Poe).

Sock.2785:

Four of the fragments were obtained from the Seerstone much like when white light passes through a prism and gets separated into its component colors.

…What?

The Bloodstone (I don’t know why you keep calling it Seerstone – it’s always called a Bloodstone) is not prismatic in any way shape or form. All fragments and three larger pieces are a shimmering blood red. There’s no prism or component colors.

Sock.2785:

So what I’m suggesting is that it is different from the other bloodstones, both in its purpose and possibly even in the looks (we still haven’t observed all of the fragments after all).

But we’ve observed three of five and they are identical. As well as all the smaller fragments and shards.

There is no difference in appearance except shape. And the purpose is actually the same. All five pieces’ purpose is to store and separate magic into four forms.

Sock.2785:

Regarding it resembling some kind of altar, if it were the Keystone, I could totally see that for it to work the royal heir must be sacrificed onto it.

If that were the case, why would the royal heir keep that as the throne? That’s beyond stupidity.

They didn’t create the Keystone any more than they created the other four stones. And honestly, nothing says the Keystone is magical – and if it is, which TBH is more likely than not magical, there is no reason to believe the Six Gods imbued it with their own magic.

And even if that did happen – which need I remind is unlikely – nothing indicates that such would alter the coloration of the stone from going dark shimmering red to a still brown/white.

Furthermore, the shape of the throne doesn’t make much sense for it to be the Bloodstone’s keystone. Aside from it being more stone-like than crystalline-like akin to the Bloodstones, the way it’s cut and placed imply that it was carved into cleanly – which the Bloodstones most certainly weren’t given all the jagged spikes we see in all three bloodstones.

Honestly, the likelihood of the throne room stone being a bloodstone is as likely as the Deep Sea Dragon being Abaddon reincarnate.

Upright charr only existed as members of the shaman caste in GW1.

They were unnatural. The natural charr body had a curve to their back – as per Olias’ dialogue:

“Centaurs have a similar bone structure to Charr, actually. Their spine is slightly curved, easy to shatter if one knows just how to strike. I look forward to dealing with them.”

The shaman caste is no more, considered outsiders. This is why the only charr to be mostly upright that you see in GW2 are the Flame Legion shamans. (Note: One of five models that are mostly upright – others include the Igniter, Smoke Shaman, Lava Shaman, and Gaheron).

Just look here and see how many charr are upright compared to those that aren’t

You’ll only see four out of ten models when excluding the unique ones – including unique, it’s just six out of fifteen. And all of them were of the shaman caste or sharing models with them. Not even all spellcasters were upright.

Why do people think that upright charr were super common or something?

Also, NONE of the clipping issues come from their hunched posture, but the existence of tail and horn and the angle of the feet.

There is only one issue I see with the charr biology: the neck is too kitten long. It makes all helmets and hoods look silly on them.

They didn’t put “their kind of magic” in the Bloodstone, however. They just took the magic that was already in the Bloodstone and divided it into four schools – which relate to the most common spellcasting professions (Elementalist, Monk/Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer).

Any magic they might have put into the Bloodstone was from Zhaitan – unknowingly – and would have been prior to dividing the Bloodstone.

Randall Greyston: Fantastic! The human gods not only sundered the seer’s bloodstone here—they increased its power.
Randall Greyston: They pulled the energies of Zhaitan himself, even though they did not know of the sleeping Elder Dragon.
Randall Greyston: They only knew that this was a place of great magical power, and built their godly city here.

The history of the Bloodstone(s), summarized:

It was created less to stop Elder Dragon corruption of magic, and more as a means to save some magic for after the Elder Dragons go to sleep. As per “A Study in Gold:”: “In olden times, when the Dragons stirred, it fell to the Seers to set aside a reservoir of magic for the upcoming drought.”

They filled the Bloodstone with uncorrupted magic. This led to an early ‘starvation’ of the Elder Dragons and, without enough food, forced them into hibernation – best to our knowledge, that is.

The Six Gods later tampered with the Bloodstone – specifically speaking, Abaddon – granting magic to the world. The exact nature isn’t known, but our most latest information says Abaddon gave the Bloodstone itself to some races. This lead to wars, King Doric saw the potential destruction of his people and pleaded with the gods to take back the ‘gift of magic’ and they did so, tampering with it again (at some point, they empowered it by siphoning magic from Zhaitan – not knowing the source of what they were siphoning) and dividing it into five stones (four schools of magic + one keystone needed to reunite the other four pieces).

The mursaat would be affected by the tampering of the bloodstone if they were around, or returned at that point. But only because all of the world’s magic was affected. The situation for the mursaat’s ability to use magic in general is no different than any other races – if an individual went to where the mursaat were at the time of the Exodus, they’d have just as much luck (or lack of) with using magic.

*Does it not seem strange that such a powerful race annihilated themselves in one small battle? *

I don’t get where you got that “small battle” from. The events of Prophecies were a series of battles, followed by entities capable of perfectly countering the mursaat’s magic hunting them down.

The GW1 characters, empowered with methods to bypass their defenses and protect against their offenses, slaughtered hundreds of mursaat to defend Thunderhead Keep/the dwarves and Shining Blade, and hundreds more fighting their way to the Door of Komalie.

This was then followed by the titans – naturally immune to the mursaat’s offenses and defenses – hunting them down on Khilbron’s orders.

This was not a “small battle” – it was a series of large battles, followed by a genocidal hunt.

They were preventing the Flameseeker prophecies from occuring, literally preventing the Titans from destroying everything.

They were hardly trying to prevent the titans from destroying everything. All their lore show that the mursaat are nothing more than selfish kittens who will slaughter entire races to save their own butts.

During the previous dragonrise, they attempted genocide to keep their magic which gave them an advantage against the Elder Dragons, and fled the world with that advantage when they failed that genocide.

During GW1, they slaughtered thousands of Krytans and sent their souls into maddening torment just to prevent a prophecy that only mentioned their race’s destruction (as far as we know, the Flameseeker Prophecies didn’t mention that the titans would destroy the world – after all, they were more devastating than Glint had foreseen ).

In fact, nothing indicates the mursaat knew the threat behind the Door of Komalie would be the titans. After all, all we ever heard about what was behind the Door was: “Seek the flame, for within it lies the power to destroy both good and evil.” as well as various lines of a “time of judgment” happening.

That doesn’t really make sense. We do not see any indication that the Bloodstones are altered based on the type of magic in them – after all, all three Bloodstones we see share the same exact appearance as do the fragments from when the original Bloodstone was broken into five larger pieces. And all of it is a shimmering blood-red.

We don’t have an exact date for when Season 3 begins. Just that it’ll be after raid wing 3 and either with or around the Summer Quarterly Update (which will be in July by all indication). Anet has said that they want to release it with the quarterly update, so third Tuesday of July is most likely IMO.

It isn’t entirely accurate to say the mursaat retained all their magic. Simply put, we don’t know the order of events between when the mursaat fled and when the bloodstone was created.

The theorized order of events in regard to the mursaat and Seers would be:

• The races ally.
• Mursaat develop Spectral Agony and their partial-stepping-into-the-Mists/Spirit Realm magic, they don’t share
• The Seers, becoming desperate, plan to create the Bloodstone
• The mursaat betray the alliance and wage war on the Seers (presumably because they want to keep their magic which makes them effectively invulnerable and overly powerful)
• The Seers develop a defense against Spectral Agony
• The mursaat flee the world fully rather than see the surviving Seers take their magic
• Seers create original Bloodstone.

Keep in mind that this is still theory, it’s just the most logical of it all. We don’t actually know the placement of when the mursaat developed their magic (just that it was before waging war on the seers) or when the seers came up with the plan to make the Bloodstone or when they actually created it. We also don’t know how these events line up with other events – the Forgotten arriving in the world in 1769 BE, the Forgotten freeing Glint, or Glint hiding the races.

But to answer your questions to the best of my abilities and theories:

Since the bloodstones were by result of the gods (and created by seers), is it possible to negate the effects of said bloodstone?/potentially bring the gods back into the fold? (It is an interesting element after all)

The Bloodstone(s) don’t have an active influence on the world, per se. The seers trapped magic within it, and that was it. It held in magic, but didn’t influence any magic it didn’t hold. The Six Gods tampered with it, empowered it, and shattered it thus dividing magic. The exact nature of their tampering is unknown but we know that it led to dividing magic into four schools that could not be interacted with at the same time – but again, the Bloodstone had no effect on magic entering the world from other means (read: hibernating Elder Dragons).

The existence of GW1’s secondary professions was due to higher ambient magic, in retroactive continuity, and in GW2’s time it’s gone to the point where the Bloodstones’ limitations is effectively ignored.

Can the effects of the Bloodstone be negated? Yes and no. Not directly – as far as we know divine resources are needed to create and alter Bloodstones (what divine resources the Seers had is unknown, but we know they had them). But magic that comes from other sources – like hibernating Elder Dragons and along the ley lines – is unaffected by the Bloodstones.

Will the Six Gods return? Unlikely. They left because, to the best of our knowledge, of the results a simple dispute about how to treat magic and followers was (Abaddon). It resulted in reshaped landscapes and deadlier-than-normal wars. They left not because of the Bloodstone’s alteration, but because of the battle with Abaddon. Given they didn’t return with Nightfall, they likely won’t ever return unless forced to – but how to force them to do that is literally unknown.

If the Mursaat do return; would their magic be ‘corrupted?’ by the elder dragons?

When talking about a “race’s magic” it’s less an actual magical energy and more a magical teaching. That is to say, knowledge of certain spells and the ability to cast them.

So… no. There’d be no reason to believe it would be corrupted by the Elder Dragons – they consume and corrupt with magic, but they can’t destroy teachings and knowledge without wiping out all of the sources of those teachings and knowledge (in this case, the mursaat race), and they can’t corrupt the teachings and knowledge itself either (just corrupt users of it).

Would the Mursaat be hive-minded and a pawn of the dragons?

Only if corrupted, like any other race in the world.

Or would they retain the assumed individuality of the race. I would presume the latter, as the Sylvari (a weak race) could resist Modremoth, you’d assume the Mursaat could wholly resist.

The sylvari are purified dragon minions. The mursaat are just a race like the charr, asura, norn, etc. Sylvari are a 100% unique situation.

If a mursaat is corrupted, then they are corrupted – their minds effectively brainwashed/overwritten, their free will gone.

Unless purified in a way like Glint and – by all indication – the seeds of the Pale Tree’s cave (so the Pale Tree, Malyck’s Tree, etc.), then no dragon minion can resist their dragon. The Mordrem Guard are the closest thing to a dragon minion that could resist their dragon – but this seems largely because the sylvari were “descended” from purified dragon champions and/or were tied to the Dream of Dreams (something not innately part of Mordremoth/mordrem kitten many people tend to believe – proof: Malyck & White Stag).

cptaylor.2670:

I think it would be interesting if the real reason they seem to have trouble reviving Lazarus in the raid is because they haven’t found a fitting vessel for his spirit yet. But what if they somehow kidnap Luminate of the Exalted and use her body as the new vessel for Lazzarus?

Lazarus never died. He has his body. They don’t seem to be reviving Lazarus so much as trying to fix what was done to him in GW1 (tampering with his magic/soul).

The Exalted don’t really have bodies either – they are energy encased in metal.

Though if they did give Lazarus (or other mursaat) Exalted-like bodies, we know how to instantly and permanently kill them: tear off the mask!

Animism.9803:

The seers could understandbly be wiped out – at the hands of the more powerful Mursaat.

The mursaat could understandbly be wiped out – at the hands of the more powerful Titans.

It’s not that hard…

While the mursaat had developed a powerful defense and offense against the Elder Dragons and their minions, this powerful weapon was ultimately useless against the titans (and eidolons) and presumably so was their defense (slipping partway into the Mists), as both dealt directly with the nature of the titans (and eidolons).

At the end of GW1, the titans hunted down what mursaat remained after we fought through hundreds of them. Presumably we killed the majority of the mursaat, but Khilbron still sent the titans to finish the job, sending them across the known world.

And keep in mind that the reason the seers were wiped out was because their spectral defense came too late in the war. By the time they had developed it, the race was already mostly gone. Presumably, them creating that spectral defense is what spared the lives of the few remaining seers (and presumably allowed them to then create the Bloodstone).

The Chosen, however, had this and the ability to see the mursaat even when they hid (Gift of True Sight via Ascension). So both the mursaat’s weapon and defense were useless against us in GW1 – the entire purpose of Ascending and finding that Seer in the game, in fact. The titans had both of these abilities naturally, being tormented souls thus already part of the overlapping spirit realm and thus constantly feeling spectral agony of their own.

So it isn’t surprising or odd in the least that the chosen and titans wiped out most of the mursaat.

Animism.9803:

@ Konig. If you don’t take some risks and prioritize elements then you will lose far more potential players than you would current players. More value in the former.

IMO – With all the failures GW2 has had so far (subjective, don’t comment just to disagree), they should be focusing on what made GW1 successful to begin with – A good fantasy story, which was on a tiny budget in comparison.

When I heard GW2 was coming out, I expected epicness round every corner, what I found was disappointing.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t take risks. I’m saying that this is one that WILL have negative impact. Because it’s an extreme version of things already done, and every single one of those things had negative impact.

If you flick a person’s ear and they shout at you, you don’t go punching them in the ear next.

GW1 had more to it than its story – I’ve been replaying it recently and I feel one of the major differences between GW1 and GW2 is not just the story feel, but the gameplay itself. But that’s neither here or there. I don’t think completely reworking the original story and switching the starting/ending areas of one of the player race options will “fix the story”.

Bloodstones are a dark red, so it isn’t that.

Simple fact is that we don’t know what the throne room’s throne backing is made out of – if anything special. I do recall a comment from a dev ages ago that this stone was seen in GW1 but… even after years, no one has a clue what it is.

@Sock: Yes, it is clear that the Keystone was created from the original Bloodstone. To quote:

They smashed the stone into five parts—four equal but opposing stones of magic, and one keystone. Without the keystone, the other four couldn’t be reassembled.

^ From the original Prophecies manuscript. And to prove it’s still accurate:

The gods agreed. They used Doric’s blood to seal the stone (blood + stone = bloodstone) and it broke it into five pieces. They threw them in a big volcano. Of course, it erupted, and spewed them out.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstones_%28book%29

Which mentions the Seers creating the Bloodstone originally.

Five pieces – four schools and one keystone – the Bloodstone was broken into.

And trying to argue that a stone would be different “since it would not be a container of magic” is silly when it comes from the same exact stone. Besides if this stone which shares models with the Bloodstone Shard in Arah is any indication we know what a magicless Bloodstone looks like: black/dark gray. Not white and gold.

To try to argue that it’s a Bloodstone but looks nothing like a Bloodstone is like arguing a duck is, in fact, a chicken.

Further, common theory is that the Ring of Fire bloodstone was the Keystone. Just theory, though, but there’s not really any indication of it being Denial or Destruction (the Maguuma bloodstone is theorized to be Preservation due to the magical qualities of the Maguuma Jungle’s waters – which have weakened just as the bloodstones have – and the Shiverpeak one is theorized to be Aggression due to the necromancer-like aura it gave in the cave system it was found in).

I believe that’s a lot harder to pull off than what you make it sound like. Even LA was never just an overlay during the finale – it was like a dungeon, just open world.

And ArenaNet has said before they don’t want to isolate playerbases via phasing maps, which is what you’re asking them to do. ArenaNet has also said that keeping copies of map – just the environment parts – is a lot of size for the dat and client, and doing such too much would be putting too much stress than they want. Which is why they only first started doing the map changing thing with LA when they rebuilt it (they had no sewers and no trenches so most of the PS maps literally stopped working) – even though there are other maps affected by the LW seasons (namely Kessex Hills).

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

If would be fun each ED is in fact the guardian of a greater power (as seen of The All, each letter is in/near a bigger circle) and by killing them we’re just dooming Tyria \o/

Well, you’re actually not wrong. To all we know, at least.

Each Elder Dragon is tied to a sphere of power, but they are not that sphere of power by all indications – some theorize those spheres of power are in fact spirit realms, others (jotun) tie them to stars. The true identity of the spheres of power is unknown, ultimately, but they don’t seem to be the Elder Dragons themselves.

And killing the Elder Dragons does doom Tyria because it results in too much magic in the world, resulting in the world falling into chaos. We’re seeing the beginning of this happening now, by all indications, with the overflowing ley energies.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I guess my real problem is that it has no way to defend its balloon, whereas the Dragonrender class of ship does. Either way, all I originally wanted was some more info on the military and such Q-Q

Well if you’re expecting an attack from above, wouldn’t having the balloon above you leave it defenseless instead?

Ranlares.2513:

You guys are all arguing one simple point “It would be hard for this to happen so it can’t”

If that’s all you got out of my post, then you didn’t read it.

To simplify, I said:

1. Despite your argument, it is not needed to progress the plot.
2. Assassinating Jennah would be rather odd and hard to pull the story off well (aka what drax said) given past stories. Regardless of subject matter, not doing a story well could make potentially awesome events into pathetically sad ones.
3. It would be too confusing for new players, something ArenaNet avoids like the plague. Remember when Anet took out chapter 7 (greatest fear arc) from the PS? Ever hear the confusion over LA’s appearance in PS versus open world? This would get a worse reaction.
4. No indication Orr is fully cleansed or safe – in fact, indications are otherwise. Therefore, would not make sense storywise.
5. It’s too hard to be worth the effort to ArenaNet. It would also be removing a lot of content – remember the backlash of S1’s temporariness? Or the removal of the greatest fear arc?
6. Your addendum wouldn’t make sense as it isn’t tied to why the gods left.

Ranlares.2513:

I am very aware of the assassination attempts, the fact DR is a starting area, and the fact that many things would have to be redone, i dont see why any of this is relevant in speculation of events that could occur.

It has everything to do with your speculation of events.

Ranlares.2513:

There is a first time for everything, and there needs to be a major chabge to the world i think. Nothing major has ever happened. The biggest thing was one city got reskinned.

Honestly, I think this is too major of a something. I disagree that there “needs” to be a major change, in this sense at least, and I don’t think this would be beneficial at all. Anyone who’s new to the game would be forced into seeing this new version of the personal story and be confused as hell as to why they’re starting the game in the heart of what they’re told to be enemy territory.

I mean, hell, we frequently get confused people asking why the hell LA looks different in the personal story. There were dozens of complaints about the removal of the greatest fear arc. There is ever increasing complaints about the lack of Season 1 story in the game. Just imagine the outrage there would be if ArenaNet ignored all these complaints and did even more things that go to what people are complaining about.

It’d be on par to keeping desert borderlands, as it was at HoT release, as the only WvW borderlands to play in ever.

Ranlares.2513:

I was simply stating something i thought would be cool. Something else that would be cooler? The mysterious deaths of all the leaders of each city. That would cause some fun stuff.

Honestly, I disagree. What is cool isn’t the “what happens” but the “how well it is shown and how much sense it makes”.

LA’s destruction was in of itself cool, but the story for it was utterly ridiculous and full of plot holes and idiot ball carrying. Same with Tower of Nightmares.

Ranlares.2513:

I do not think the white mantle attacking multiple places at once would be much fun, becayse we would get the same events we have now. Every 45 minutes there would be some nonesense attack on some outpost and we defeat them and move and and the story acts like it didnt happen.

And all leaders being assaulted at the same time is different?

Oh, wait, all leaders being killed. Meaning we have no way to stop it, just like what I said. :P

Ranlares.2513:

I simply want something bigger than we have seen, and you guys act like its impossible because they havent done it before lol

No, it’s impossible because the form of what you’re asking is too much work for worth and would incite so much toxicity from the playerbase against ArenaNet – and we’ve seen how they react to negative feedback (they revoke it in any way possible then pretend it doesn’t exist – see retcons done to Scarlet’s background, underwater combat, desert borderlands, etc.), so I doubt they would do what was hated before intentionally.

Erukk.1408:

Doesn’t change the fact that it’s canon on how Ceara got into the colleges though, and that’s really all that matters at the end of the day. Ceara only got into the colleges because a higher ranking asura needed a guinea pig for a grand experiment.

Doesn’t change the fact that she used her “cunning charisma and snake-tongue” to do things that normally wouldn’t be possible.

Erukk.1408:

But please, stop derailing the original thread idea by making us defend the plausibility of some of the segments of Scarlet’s story.

This is a kittening laugh. You and drax brought this up so if anything, you guys derailed the topic. I’ve just been countering the OP and alternative suggestions.

So don’t blame me for the fact that you’ve been derailing the topic – if you want to go into that direction.

Honestly, I’m not sure that a “purified Orr” would look like what people hope. All the buildings would be destroyed still, and the soil would still be full of oil and coral from its long submersion underwater.

All we’d get is clear skies and some regular vegetation strewn across, with fewer risen.

What it seems people want is rebuilt buildings and fixed landscapes – basically a pre-Cataclysm Orr. But that’s not what a purified Orr is.

@narwhalsbend: Keep in mind that GW1 was instanced. Every single zone was an instanced zone, altered based on the furthest progression of any party member, ever since, well, technically ever if you count quests but since Nightfall otherwise.

@Shiren: Those large parts, however, were covered in Arah dungeon – both story (southern and eastern edge, kinda sorta on the second) and explorable (the entire middle). Just look at that_shaman’s historical map where he added the story and explorable dungeons to the open world since they overlay perfectly in size (unlike most dungeons – only four really do that: Caudecus’ Manor, Citadel of Flame, Arah, and Aetherblade Retreat).

1) I fail to see why Jennah’s death is a requirement for the White Mantle plot to become relevant. And besides, lore in the raid wing 2 imply, to me, that the White Mantle are more preparing for an all out war.

More likely we’ll see a simultaneous assault on multiple locations occurring in the open world and in story instances, resulting in catching the Seraph (and presumably the Shining Blade) off guard.

2) It would be veyr weird for Jennah to be assassinated so easily. We’ve already seen three failed assassination attempts on her life. One (Separatists) prevented by her maintaining an impenetrable shield, the second (Scarlet) by her and the Shining Blade putting in an illusionary double, and the third (Kellach) varied a bit depending on your order choice, but iirc two of three were cases of “illusion double”, the third being a Priory device hiding and protecting the subject from risen.

3) Divinity’s Reach won’t ever become enemy territory. For one simple reason: it’s a starter area. People seem to think that Lion’s Arch being destroyed means that anywhere is available for destruction, but if you think about it, ArenaNet almost never alters the starter areas (racial cities + 1-15 zones). When the mordrem assaulted the Grove, we saw no change in the open world, for example.

It would cause huge issues for the first three chapters of the Personal Story for humans too.

4) Orr might have had its cleansing begin just before the end of the Personal Story, now three years ago, but the risen remained a threat and the risen continued to spread corruption – even if in a limited degree. There’s actually no indication that Orr is fully cleansed and all indication points that it is still a hostile territory, in fact.

Besides, we’re already been told that the human claim over Orr is tenuous.

5) Your specific suggestion would entirely kitten up the personal story from beginning to end, in every sense of the concept, and you’d have to rework four zones (in appearance and NPC/event spawning, voice overs, etc.) on top of over 50 story instances and presumably removing a dungeon. It just won’t happen. That’s far to much work for ArenaNet to merit the worth of the plot – which honestly, isn’t that good.

6) The gods left over a thousand years ago, when Orr was well populated. Why would they return now that it’s populated again? Them leaving had nothing to do with Orr, but the fact that they nearly destroyed an entire continent from their infighting and bad decisions.

Erukk.1408:

I’m not sure how her previous dealings with the Dredge before the creation of the MA is somehow lore breaking. They’re an aggressive race, but they aren’t totally without reason on matters, especially considered it was a black market deal. All she would have needed to do was find a shady Dredge willing to part with his iron if the price was right.

I said the dealings in the short story were practically lore-breaking, but she had many resources well before falling to Mordremoth.

You’re beginning to twist what I was saying.

Erukk.1408:

she only got into the Asura colleges because Omadd wanted to study her.

Something which was added after the great amounts of negative feedback.

Erukk.1408:

The only outlier is Asagai, but it wouldn’t take much to spin a story about why a lonely old gladium might want to pass on his skills before he passes.

So the bitter old isolated gladium decided to teach a foreign sylvari instead of a proper charr who would use the lessons well.

I wouldn’t mind them having other groups of individuals that we get to know and work with for different situations.

Nero.8047:

That’s because Sylvari are built regarding to “templates”, human templates even.

The same goes for the Fern Hounds which are built according to canine templates.

in short that would mean that all Sylvari more-or-less look like humans who have existed before.
The weird thing being that Sylvari can alter their physical appearance when exposed to significant emotional/psychological change such as:
#. Turning to Nightmare
#. Being corrupted by Mordremoth.
#. Being Canach.

Canach was hunted down by a series of assassins.

Also, Caithe’s appearance changed due to her killing Wynne after learning the origins of the sylvari race.

I don’t think we see many – or any, actually – sylvari who change in physical appearance due to turning to Nightmare. Only the fern hounds seem to do so.

Those notices tend to appear when you first activate the story step. It usually goes away when you zone or relog. If it doesn’t, try deactivating and reactivating the story step again.

That corn is feeding Cornucopia, the Elder Corn Dragon.

The All shows only 6 bodies of power which are tied to the Elder Dragons. And all historical lore on the previous dragonrise(s) indicate six Elder Dragons.

The question is not “how many Elder Dragons are there” but rather “why did they clump up at Tyria?”

Historical lore actually shows that most of Central Tyria was likely Kralkatorrik’s domain – including Orr, the then Crystal Sea, and Charr Homelands (now called Blood Legion Homelands) and everything inbetween. This coming from: Kralkatorrik bled in the Crystal Sea/Desert in some ancient battle (said in Edge of Destiny), hibernated in the Blood Legion Homelands, and its champion (Glaust) was found in Arah (as indicated in Arah explorable’s Forgotten path).

Only Kralkatorrik and Primordus really show heavy involvement in Tyria in the distant past, and Primordus’ was in the ancient dwarven lore, except for where Zhaitan and Mordremoth fell asleep and the minions they left behind. Jormag had some small informed involvement, again in ancient dwarven lore and in Drakkar’s hibernation location, but that level of involvement seems similar to what Primordus is doing now.

There’s pretty much zero indication that Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and the DSD had any involvement with Central Tyria until they were close to hibernation (and even then, the DSD still had minimal to no involvement). The most involvement in Central Tyria in the past is shown in the fact that they hibernated in Central Tyria, and the previous races knew of them (and they might’ve only known of them due to Glint and them hibernating near Tyria – or far away civilizations the ancient races traded with being wiped out by them, etc.).

Which implies that, for some reason, half of the Elder Dragons went to Central Tyria at the end of the last dragonrise, but prior were far more spread out than we see them in GW2.

I think Thaumanova Reactor explosion may be a good indication of what happens when magic overloads.

In the fractal, we see it create some sort of sapient lightning elemental – not dissimilar to djinn and seems to be a more advanced stage of the ley line coalescences – and in the city itself we see magic turning toxic, causing water bubbles to appear in the air adjacent to a landscape that’s been frozen adjacent to a land that’s had rapid natural growth adjacent to an area that’s been scorched. We see creatures being teleported in an out randomly.

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tell that to the Molten Alliance, Steam creatures, Toxic Alliance, and Aetherblades.

She broke the lore where she couldn’t normally get resources, in order to get resources. Nothing was out of her reach.

I’m strictly talking about Ceara before her contact with Mordremoth and not Scarlet’s lore breaking story afterwards. She only started to make those alliances to more easily gather and create resources after she came into contact with Mordremoth, and he started to push and shape her actions increasingly over time.

If she never came into contact with him, Ceara would probably still be a wandering academic genius with sociopathic tendencies and horrible social skills.

You should check that Season 2 instance again, with her holo recordings.

She created the steam creatures, via “black market dredge” dealings, before undergoing Omadd’s machine.

She also trained under charr, norn, asura, and hylek before that moment too, in lore-breaking Mary Sue manners. Per the short story.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s a valid point there. In hindsight, in fact, it could be only through Mordremoth’s influence that Scarlet got the charisma to pull that off in the first place. The Ceara we saw was no charmer, snake-tongued or otherwise, but if Mordremoth infused her with some of its powers over the mind, then that could explain it. (While Mordremoth mostly focused on sylvari because they were easier targets, that doesn’t bar it from being able to grant Scarlet some form of hypnotism that allowed her to form those unlikely alliances.)

I’m sorry, but convincing an old hostile sniper to teach her weaponry isn’t “charmer, snake-tongued or otherwise”? Convincing the Arcane Council to let her take advanced asura college classes isn’t such either?

Half of her lore breaking and pretty much 85% of her Mary Sue-ness came from her background – before entering Omadd’s machine.

Kossage.9072:

As far as I remember, we still haven’t received a proper explanation for Scarlet’s cryptic line “Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me”.

Given Mordremoth’s mentality, he seems to see himself as necessary for Tyria’s survival. Sees himself as Tyria, to some degree even. This could easily transfer to Scarlet just as it transferred to Faolain.

“Tyria needs me” could be the brainwashed interpretation of “Mordremoth needs me”.

In most fantasy settings, including Tyria, gods are not omnipotent. That kind of labeling with a god really only belongs in monotheistic religions like Christianity.

That said, hard to say. Even if you don’t include Elder Dragons, do you include dragon champions? Most of them are as powerful as small armies. And even then, how do you consider “most powerful”? For example, Palawa Joko is effectively immortal to all knowledge, but he was bested by a mortal warrior – would Turai be “more powerful” here, because he bested Joko in a 1 on 1 duel, or would Joko be more powerful because Turai, despite besting Joko, couldn’t kill him?

Unfortunately, it seems to be for the Black Lion Miniature Merchant. A new tab for Season 1 miniatures. Or at least that’s what everyone on the reddit thread seem to think.

Whether it is or isn’t, well, if it is I’d expect it to be part of the third quarterly update this year which will focus on adding content to the game (I don’t recall if they mentioned it’d be specifically adding new content, or just adding content in general) instead of revamping stuff.

Budman.2934:

im glad they have a poll for this but seriously kill of Kas majory taimi and Brahm maybe Rox to if she continues to coddle Brahms

better yet just get rid of all the Mary sue character’s

i don’t have any hate for these heroes its just that they are really lacking in what any GW1 hero had the person who writes the stories your doing good but it could be better nothing negative just some constrictive criticism

1) The biconics are not mary sue characters. May Sues are defined by a lack of flaws and how everything always goes their way.

Rox got disbarred from joining the Stone Warband – a proper price to pay for disobeying orders. If she were a Mary Sue, then she would not have been punished for disobeying orders.

Braham’s mother died right before his eyes. If he were a Gary Stue, then at the most harmful Eir would have died with him far away.

Marjory nearly died for no fault of her own. That doesn’t happen to Mary Sue characters unless the purpose is to solely act as an excuse for a romance plot – while a kiss with Kasmeer was resulting, the purpose of Marjory nearly dying was, besides an alternative to Marjory actually dying (the original draft), to keep the heavier fighters out of the fight so that the noble girl Kasmeer could stand up and grow as a character. Not to mention the death of Marjory’s sister.

The only character that comes close to a mary sue would be Taimi, really, but this is due to the rating of the game – they can’t bring harm to children without the ESRB folks frothing at the mouth and rating the game Mature, and ArenaNet’s desperately wanting to keep the game rated Teen.

And your criticism, as pointed out by another, is hardly constructive as you never point out any pro and con to your reasoning. You just say “kill off these characters I hate, they’re awful!” That’s just negative comments – I’d hardly call that negative criticism as the other person did.

Unlikely. The Elder Dragons by all indication aren’t acting with the goal of balancing magic – that seems to be more of a side effect of their nature of consuming magic, which is seemingly common among all draconic beings (there are hints that there was a race of dragons in the distant past, beyond even what we saw in Cantha in GW1).

The Elder Dragons were probably once actual beings before becoming eldritch abominations, maybe even indirectly replacing older Elder Dragons like we see Tequatl possibly trying to fill the void Zhaitan had left (so not the same situation as Kormir replacing Abaddon or Grenth replacing Dhuum).

Magic coalescing seems to be more akin to the formation of elementals – which we know form in places of high ambient magical energy – though a lot more powerful. Someone on the forums (think it was Aaron) theorized that this may even be how djinn were made in the distant past.

Killing the Elder Dragons would be harmful, if we don’t find an alternative method of balancing magic, but I would rather take it at face value for what we’ve been told will happen: the world falls into chaos with too much magic, and crumbles into darkness with too little magic.

Fjaeldmark.9043:

I might be remembering this wrong but didn’t Destiny’s Edge come about when Edge of Steel and Dragonspawn’s Destiny fused into a single guild? Maybe they’re doing a similar thing here, two guilds are combining into one and getting a new name in the process.

The name Dragonspawn’s Destiny was only ever made for the announcer at the arena, though the name Destiny’s Edge did come out of the two.

But the biconics weren’t ever their own guild.

Going to quote myself from elsewhere:

But… they have a name.

It’s called Destiny’s Edge.

Also, something I don’t get is why is Taimi included when Caithe and Canach – who were there for killing Mordremoth – not? And if this is about the biconics, then why include Rytlock?

Honestly, I can’t even bring myself to choose any of these names.

• The Unbroken sounds like a name belonging to torture victems or ex-slaves.
• Eternity’s Guard sounds like a group that’s purely defensive – but Destiny’s Edge, born from Dragonborn’s Destiny and Edge of Steel, have always been a purely offensive group.
• Dragon’s Watch fits as their main goal is fighting the Elder Dragons but again, that name sounds defensive rather than offensive – it sounds like they’re a group watching for the rise of dragon activity, a name suited for when the dragons were still a rising threat instead of the current standing threat.

None of the name fits.

I VOTE FOR KEEPING IT DESTINY’S EDGE. The name has meaning, history, and importance to the lore. It fits thematically, as each of the group has ties to the original Destiny’s Edge member, and naming it something new feels like another case of ignoring the foundation of lore that was so present in Season 1. And for goodness sake, include Caithe and Canach in the listings! Stop hating on Caithe! She’s done nothing wrong to you, writers!

Danikat.8537:

The problem with calling them Destiny’s Edge is they’re not Destiny’s Edge and that guild may still exist. It’s a bit uncertain after HoT, but not to the point where it would be ok for a bunch of kids to come along and appropriate the name.

They kind of are.

The Pact Commander is considered a member of Destiny’s Edge and the biconics have done all that the Pact Commander has done to be considered a member of Destiny’s Edge, though in slightly different ways.

• They were mentored, at some point, by a member of Destiny’s Edge – either the Pact Commander, their racial iconic, or both.
• They worked on several missions with at least one member of Destiny’s Edge about random things – working with the Pact Commander against Scarlet, and with the Pact Commander and racial iconic in S2.
• They worked to bring Destiny’s Edge back together – rescuing them from Mordrem, working with Rytlock to do so, and tracking and finding Caithe.

They did it in different ways, but they did everything the Pact Commander did. The Pact Commander is considered a member of Destiny’s Edge… so why aren’t the biconics?

And why is Rytlock considered a member of the biconics now? Yet Caithe and Canach aren’t?

Besides, it isn’t appropriating the name – it’s joining the guild. Apparently people in the gaming community are unaware of the concept of recruitment when it comes to famous small guilds.

Danikat.8537:

I always thought of them as two entirely separate groups that occasionally ran into each other rather than one big group. Really the only things they have in common are working with us and ending up fighting a dragon.

They started as two separate groups. Season 1 was doing a strong job of intentionally making them their own characters with different goals.

Then Season 2 came and the writers just went “kitten that kitten!” and the biconics had the exact same goals as Destiny’s Edge. This became solidfied in Heart of Thorns, especially for Braham and Taimi, and with them working with not one, not two, but three members of Destiny’s Edge: Rytlock, Caithe, and the Pact Commander.

If ArenaNet had originally given them a name at the end of Season 1, then it would make sense to have a second group. But now, with the same goals, same intentions, same everything, it makes no sense.

What started as, throughout Season 1:

“Hi, we’re Destiny’s Edge, and we save Tyria from Elder Dragons!”

“Hi, we’re Destiny’s Orphans, and we do what we want!”

“Hi, I’m the Pact Commander, and I work with both of those groups but not really a member of either one.”

Got turned into, throughout Season 2/HoT:
“Hi, we’re Destiny’s Edge, and we save Tyria from Elder Dragons!”

“Hi, we’re Destiny’s Orphans, and we save Tyria from Elder Dragons!”

“Hi, I’m Rytlock, and this is the Pact Commander. We’re members of both of those groups.”

So why bother with separate groups

What’s next, we come out with the ciconics and make a third group and then we form the Holy Trinity that is three small groups uniting against the Elder Dragons because they have the same goal but different methods?

Danikat.8537:

Likewise DE weren’t there when Rox and Braham defeated the leaders of the Molten Alliance, when Jory and Kas solved Theo Ashford’s murder, when they all joined together to confront Scarlet for the first time or throughout the subsequent fights with her and her minions.

During Season 1, they were what you said. Two different groups that occasionally crossed paths.

Season 2 and Heart of Thorns threw that all out of the window. Just as Destiny’s Edge started as five individuals who had their own accomplishments and banded together to fight a dragon champion (Dragonspawn), and only just happened to eventually lead to combating the Elder Dragons, the biconics were also just some individuals who had their own accomplishments and banded together to fight a dragon champion (Scarlet) and only just happened to eventually lead to combating the Elder Dragons.

They started as two groups, but they became one.

And now, as this one group, they’re getting a new name? Why?

Danikat.8537:

This may be a massive over-simplification but it sounds to me like you think this new group is defined entirely by Rytlock’s presence. As was Destiny’s Edge. So as long as Rytlock is in a group that group is Destiny’s Edge.

It’s a false simplification. I am not saying “it should be Destiny’s Edge because Rytlock is there”. That is part of it, but far from the only reason.

Perhaps this is a better explanation of my line of thought:

1. The Pact Commander was taught by a member of DE, and worked with DE on numerous missions, ultimately bringing down an Elder Dragon with DE.
2. The Pact Commander is called and considered a member of DE because of point 1.
3. The biconics are taught by (a) member(s) of DE, work with members of DE on numerous missions, and ultimately bring down an elder Dragon with DE.
4. The biconics are not called and considered a member of DE despite points 1 and 3.

Why are the biconics being treated as a Group B at this point? There is no reasoning for this, when they are doing the same thing as someone who is now considered the Group A.

If the group formed at the end of Season 1, as was originally planned (read: Destiny’s Orphans), then yes, them being their own group makes sense.

Rytlock being part of this new group name just makes it odder.

The only explanation there really is, is one that doesn’t make sense either: Destiny’s Edge disbands, and they make a new group out of the heroes who fought so hard against Mordremoth – sans Canach and Caithe. Why is it not making sense?

1. Logan and Zojja still live.
2. Pact Commander, Rytlock and Caithe are/should be part of both groups.
3. Biconics could easily just be treated as recruits to Destiny’s Edge, just as the Pact Commander.

For that matter, why is Caithe not mentioned while Rytlock is? Do they intend to keep the distrust of Caithe alive, despite the fact that she did absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for her? Rytlock and the Pact Commander (and probably Canach) should never have found her actions unusual or traitorous in the first place – I really do not hope that ArenaNet doesn’t keep this ridiculous plot concept alive (especially since Bobby Stein acknowledged that people felt that way over Caithe’s “depiction”).

And why is Canach not mentioned? Presumably, only reason would be because he’s still a lap dog of Anise.

Danikat.8537:

But just because one person from a previous guild has joined doesn’t mean both groups are the same guild. Otherwise we may as well use the name of Rox’s old warband, or say we’re all members of the Priory like Marjory.

Not one. Two – which includes the leader.

And it should be three.

Furthermore, unlike your strawman comparisons, most members of the biconics has a tie to Destiny’s Edge – either through lineage (Braham, possibly Rox), or mentorship (Rox and Taimi). Only Marjory and Kasmeer are really the odd men out there.

Erukk.1408:

she doesn’t really have the resources to be able to expand her research like they do.

Tell that to the Molten Alliance, Steam creatures, Toxic Alliance, and Aetherblades.

She broke the lore where she couldn’t normally get resources, in order to get resources. Nothing was out of her reach.

If she needed, she would have imprisoned all six gods and dhuum and menzies to power her reality-altering device that makes everyone a Scarlet Briar copy.

Erukk.1408:

Allying with the Pact would have opened up a lot of connections for her to use, since they would supply the resources for her to conduct experiments and it would put her in touch with experts in their field from all over Tyria.

Why ally with the Pact when she had just stolen their most advanced technologies (read: airships and combat holograms)?

Danikat.8537:

I think this is covered in ‘thematically appropriate potential names’.

Whilst Destiny’s Edge 2.0 (or Edge 2.0/ DE2 etc.) is what players have been calling this group it wouldn’t realistically be what they call themselves.

Here’s the thing…

THIS ISN’T THE NAME FOR THE BICONICS!

This is the naem for RYTLOCK and the biconics minus Canach.

Rytlock, a member of Destiny’s Edge, will also be a member of this new name.

Why?

It makes no sense. If they’re fighting with Destiny’s Edge, why make a brand new name and group? Why not just have them be recruits of Destiny’s Edge? Senior members and junior members?

Danikat.8537:

For one thing it’d be incredibly presumptuous. Destiny’s Edge is probably the most famous guild in Tyria, you’d have a hard time finding anyone who hasn’t heard of them. Even for people who have just killed a dragon declaring yourself to be the continuation of that legacy is a huge statement.

So Rytlock must then become a member of a new group.

Gotcha.

Perfect sense.

Danikat.8537:

But it also seems very disrespectful to the original. With HoT spoilers:a second death in the team and two members seriously injured it does seem like Destiny’s Edge is finished. But that should be for them to decide, not for someone else to say “ok, you guys had your chance, you’re done and we’re taking over now”.

It seems to me that so many people are so focused on the name for the biconics they forget that this name includes Rytlock, and furthermore, seem to forget that recruitment is a thing and that even if the original members of a group die off the group’s name doesn’t change so long as there are any members of it. If it did change, then there wouldn’t be any form of government, religious church, or other organization that would exist for more than a single generation.

Death of members of a group doesn’t mean said group is finished. It means that group goes on a recruitment campaign to get replacements. That is what every normal group does in real life. Only groups intend to be close nit friends don’t do this, and even if you count Destiny’s Edge as such, they still recruit members.

Danikat.8537:

Although also maybe these guys just want to be their own guild instead of being seen as a new version of someone else’s.

And so they have Rytlock join.

Logic!

Yeah, I’m sorry, but no matter what, the “need” of a new name is non-existence. We aren’t talking about biconics. We aren’t talking about people struggling to live up to a famous name.

We’re talking about both iconics and biconics. We’re talking about two groups of people who have done the same deeds. Destiny’s Edge have killed an Elder Dragon, so have the biconics – though three individuals have killed two – and both groups killed half a dozen dragon champions too.

Moonyeti.3296:

I went with Unbroken as it was the least cringey to me. I never really liked Destiny’s Edge as a name either. Really all these names feel a bit like they are a bit forced.

The Unbroken sounds like a name for a group of ex-slaves or torment victim survivors.

To me, it is the most cringing name.

Donari.5237:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/choose-a-name-for-tyrias-heroes/

Also this — they are polling us for a choice of name. I was torn between two of them but did vote on one.

Going to quote myself from reddit:

But… they have a name.

It’s called Destiny’s Edge.

Also, something I don’t get is why is Taimi included when Caithe and Canach – who were there for killing Mordremoth – not? And if this is about the biconics, then why include Rytlock?

Honestly, I can’t even bring myself to choose any of these names.

• The Unbroken sounds like a name belonging to torture victems or ex-slaves.
• Eternity’s Guard sounds like a group that’s purely defensive – but Destiny’s Edge, born from Dragonborn’s Destiny and Edge of Steel, have always been a purely offensive group.
• Dragon’s Watch fits as their main goal is fighting the Elder Dragons but again, that name sounds defensive rather than offensive – it sounds like they’re a group watching for the rise of dragon activity, a name suited for when the dragons were still a rising threat instead of the current standing threat.

None of the name fits.

I VOTE FOR KEEPING IT DESTINY’S EDGE. The name has meaning, history, and importance to the lore. It fits thematically, as each of the group has ties to the original Destiny’s Edge member, and naming it something new feels like another case of ignoring the foundation of lore that was so present in Season 1. And for goodness sake, include Caithe and Canach in the listings! Stop hating on Caithe! She’s done nothing wrong to you, writers!

Edit: And I just want to respond to one line in the blog: “The winning choice will be revealed in the next season of the Living World story.”

Isn’t this a bit late? The voting ends in early July. This means that any and all voice recording for the group’s name either hasn’t been done and won’t be done until after July 8th, or was done with multiple variants. Does this mean that Season 3 isn’t going to be coming for months still?

Going to quote myself from reddit:

But… they have a name.

It’s called Destiny’s Edge.

Also, something I don’t get is why is Taimi included when Caithe and Canach – who were there for killing Mordremoth – not? And if this is about the biconics, then why include Rytlock?

Honestly, I can’t even bring myself to choose any of these names.

• The Unbroken sounds like a name belonging to torture victems or ex-slaves.
• Eternity’s Guard sounds like a group that’s purely defensive – but Destiny’s Edge, born from Dragonborn’s Destiny and Edge of Steel, have always been a purely offensive group.
• Dragon’s Watch fits as their main goal is fighting the Elder Dragons but again, that name sounds defensive rather than offensive – it sounds like they’re a group watching for the rise of dragon activity, a name suited for when the dragons were still a rising threat instead of the current standing threat.

None of the name fits.

I VOTE FOR KEEPING IT DESTINY’S EDGE. The name has meaning, history, and importance to the lore. It fits thematically, as each of the group has ties to the original Destiny’s Edge member, and naming it something new feels like another case of ignoring the foundation of lore that was so present in Season 1. And for goodness sake, include Caithe and Canach in the listings! Stop hating on Caithe! She’s done nothing wrong to you, writers!

Edit: And I just want to respond to one line in the blog: “The winning choice will be revealed in the next season of the Living World story.”

Isn’t this a bit late? The voting ends in early July. This means that any and all voice recording for the group’s name either hasn’t been done and won’t be done until after July 8th, or was done with multiple variants. Does this mean that Season 3 isn’t going to be coming for months still?

That quoted…

They aren’t a 2.0. They were, even if by reputation of deeds alone, effectively recruited into Destiny’s Edge just as the PC was when the PC fought alongside DE and pulled them back together.

Scarlet was a horrid mess of a character. She broke the lore in every sense of the word, with every interaction she had. Her timeline is a mess because ArenaNet’s writers couldn’t settle on how OP they wanted her to be and had to backtrack when they realized they went too far.

She’s dead and resurrection is gone. As far as we know, sylvari don’t even have souls. The only way she could have returned would have been the same method that the mordrem commanders had but thank god they didn’t bring her back in HoT. Would have been cheesier than Trahearne’s death.

Let rotted dog lie.

@Sungak: A note on waypoints and being killed: they don’t resurrect – resurrection isn’t really a thing in GW2 (it was in GW1 but is now something like a lost art). Mechanically, our characters never die – that’s why it’s called “defeated” state instead of dead – lorewise, our character is just unconscious. Whether or not there’s any lore on how unconscious individuals can end up at waypoints is another matter entirely, since all NPCs that use waypoints have to go right underneath them.

Use of waypoints in lore is actually a very good question for a dev to answer. (Bolding for Scott when/if he returns)

Talk to Braham and Marjory at the end of Heart of Thorns. They both talk about “our guild” (the PC and them).

Story wise, the iconics and biconics appear to all now be members of Destiny’s Edge. It happens off-screen and more due to continued grouping up and doing stuff together, like the PC joining Destiny’s Edge (stated such in S2 by the Pale Tree, iirc).

Like Aaron, I can’t think of anything that’d go beyond halfhearted jesting for sake of morale, except for that one asura in his hidden jumping puzzle – but at that position, he’d hardly be able to easily identify you (and one person being insubordinate in a stressful warzone is actually rather surprisingly good).

But the lack of denoting the PC’s ranks is one of the apparent complaints ArenaNet got which led to S2’s and HoT’s overcalling us “boss” and “Commander” (even though we hardly take the role of a person in command of a military operation in HoT).

There’s very little lore on what is eaten in the game – to the point of practically none beyond the odd event (which probably doesn’t even enter the double digets). The closest we’d get is, well, the chef crafting profession, but I wouldn’t take that very literally.

I’d presume that corn is a common food that the grand hero and ultra chef that is our PC doesn’t care about it.

I don’t think Jormag is weak to heat even if he is an “Ice Dragon”. After all, Sons of Svanir use corrupted ice in their firepits without it melting.

Redfeather.6401:

Searing was the result of an extremist sect within the charr, they got a lot of support as they were of course taking advantage of all charr wanting their freaking homeland back!
Yeah, it’s complicated.

Charr originate from east of the Blazeridge. They owned Ascalon for less than a lifetime as it was under the Khan-Ur’s reign that they conquered it, and with the Khan-Ur’s death that humans were able to push the charr so far north as to begin building the Great Northern Wall.

The Searing might have been performed by the Flame Legion’s shamans, but at the time the entire shaman caste which spanned the four legions were the effective rulers – the Flame Legion were just on top because they had the most shamans. It was also something that almost all charr were agreed upon doing – it wasn’t really until Pyre that some doubt and disdain was truly seeded among the non-Flame Legion and non-shaman caste.

If we want to argue “give Ascalon back to its original inhabitants” then we should be giving it back to the grawl, since the only other sapient individuals to live there/near there were Forgotten and dwarves as far as we know – that’s who the charr fought when invading what is now called the Blood Legion Homelands and Ascalon.

MatthewMedina.5419:

I can’t remember how much of this information (if any) was included in my blog post about the alphabets from years ago that is unfortunately no longer available. I’d always intended to follow up on Villem Caragan’s journal on the languages with this information but time just got away from all of us. :-)

None of it was. We learned of charr ideograms from your post on GW1’s wiki, and the blog post only talked about written languages – mainly Ascalonian, Old Krytan, and New Krytan (specifically how New Krytan was derived from Ascalonian and Old Krytan) and why the races all use New Krytan. As for follow-ups – why not have a few books added to Durmand Priory libraries, like the one in Divinity’s Reach?

There was a mention of an anonymous dev talking about the previous dragonrise as the origin of the common language, but it was second-hand the entire time. And it contradicted/called into question some pieces of lore.

Namely: why do the charr call it ‘human’ in The Ecology of the Charr (“the Hrangmer volcano (translated to human, the name means “Jaws of Oblivion”)”) and mention a second name for fahrar as if either name were ‘human’ while the other of their own language? By your explanation, the charr should have been using this language far longer than humans did.

There’s another oddity in your explanation: you say that there were five races sheparded by Glint, but according to lore, didn’t the mursaat (one of the five ancient races always talked about) leave Tyria rather than be hidden by Glint? Or did their betrayal and subsequent departure after hiding with Glint for a while? This is why I asked earlier if we could get a timeline of those events. :I (and as an addendum: wouldn’t the alliance between them have predated Glint hiding them? Or was their entire alliance and plight against the ED done while being hidden by Glint? – again, timeline is needed! Confusing!)

This also leads to the question which Nero asks: how did the modern races learn this language? The centaurs, charr, tengu, krait, etc. and most importantly: humans? I can imagine some races learning from the dwarves or Forgotten, but they never really interacted with the krait as far as we know – or were on friendly terms with charr.