Guild Wars 2

I’ve fought a couple of troll Shadow Arts thieves using this rune in PvP dueling arenas myself. If you have no idea that birds hit that hard get ready to get rekt.

Thanks for the fast replies

ZilentNight.5089:

Kyon, can i be your friend? Btw its my birthday today, I wudn’t mind a gift. What a coincidence huh?

Go take 1st place this week for JQ first!

Hi,

I know people can get banned for sending huge amounts of gold by mail. What I’m wondering is if I can get banned by sending expensive items by mail, more specifically a precursor weapon.

Me and my friends are planning to send someone a precursor weapon as a birthday gift. Do we risk getting banned by doing that?

Thanks

Sorry, I should have elaborated when I said SA but Smekla and Black Teagan already elaborated it. I meant the “common builds that revolve around SA” which usually have decent amount of condi clears.

As for skull crack warriors, maybe I should have said D/P + SB specifically. That thief build had the advantages of stealth, blinds, and mobility against skull crack warriors who usually have GS + Mace/Shield.

That or I’ve probably watched Docmed and Caed make random warriors their playthings too many times.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Please just ask this question.

If stealth is terrible broken and the class is OP how then:

1.- Why people we see A LOT MORE owarrios and guardians than any class in WvW if thief is that good?

In terms of zerging, yes you’ll mostly see guardians and warriors because they can survive. In terms of solo roaming and ganking? Thieves are undeniably the best class there is.

2.- Why a thief in SPVP since a long time is not even one of the top 5 profession to select in a professional match?

Thief is not a top class in high tier PvP? Please watch more “professional matches” and see the answer for yourself whether they’re top dogs or not

3.- Why thief is one of the most rejected professions with rangers at moment of creating a party for example to fractals.

This is a case of elitism by pugs. On a side note, thieves are essential on organized/semi-organized speed run dungeon groups (usually Arah, CM, TA) because of how stealth gives the party the ability to skip through mobs.

4.- Why Every single profession when played by a good player and meta build can defeat a thief very easily, and they have say and made videos of that, look for 1v1 duels of top players in youtube with different professions.

Please do not even try referring to youtube videos. It has so many factors that are usually left out. People usually just put in the “good stuff” and leave out the “Bad stuff” aka parts where they get outplayed by others. So the video consists of player X killing 10 different players. But how many deaths did he get before he got those 10 kills?

Do you think is fun to us that a warrior constantly stuns us?
Do you think is fun that a pu mesmer disappears 70% of the fight and still they are able to hit with phantoms?
Do you think is fun that is almost impossible to us to kill a spam engi running like a rabbit?

I find this very ironic.

If you’re a thief and you’re having problems fighting against a skull crack warrior, you really should review your own playstyle.

You complain about PU mesmers abusing stealth. Isn’t that what thieves do as well?

How to counter a condi classes? Use the Shadow Arts traits

Now let’s get back to topic about Backstab Damage

SoLeciTO.3490:

Fortus.6175 as i see for your record in the forum, you really hate thieves.

It seems you use more the forum to complain about thieves than actually playing and learning mechanics.

I have also several screen shots of kill shot with a lot more than 13k in a cool range use.
I have also videos on youtube of elementalist 1 shooting people with the cool combo.
I hgave also videos of PU mesmer laughing of 4 people triying to kill something they don’t see plus 5 clones hitting them constantly.
I have also videos of warriors with . . . well a lot of warrios.

The problem as i can see it, is that you haven’t learn the simple mechanics of a thief in this years.

Why i say that, because dueling in the wind mill in wvw and playing SPVP i have found professions like guardians, kitten engis (hate them), and well of course warriors, that a thief can not simple kill when well played.

I will not tell you that i’m a pro thief, but i know every single build and rotation of my profession and i have almost 80% of my time in this game wasted on duels and roaming; with that said i can bet my account that almost every profession played on their maximum expression thieves are on bottom.

Trust me man . . . i don’t want to be rude when i say this . . but is a L2P issue.

While it’s undeniable that he has a special hate for thieves, IMO those who compare Kill Shot to Backstab can’t tell others to L2P. The risk/reward between the 2 skills are simply like heaven and earth. If you can’t tell why, you really shouldn’t tell others to L2P

On a side note, I still see a lot of thieves in denial of how stealth as a mechanic is broken. Even top tier thief and non-thief players loathe thieves who goes deep into Shadow Arts trait line (which focuses on stealth mechanic).

I don’t understand why people discredit him so much. Sure, Daphoenix is not the best Elementalist out there. He doesn’t even play anymore. Sure, everyone can claim they can beat a guy who played in the past meta but IIRC it was him who popularized Boon Duration on Eles. It was him who popularized the 0/10/0/30/30 build. It was him who popularized the now common Elementalist skill chaining and might stacking combos.

It was thanks to him that eles got popular in the first place. You can say it’s thanks to him also that eles were nerfed to the ground. But you should blame Anet for over-nerfing the class. He taught hundreds and thousands of people how to play Elementalist.

People can discredit and insult him however they want but the fact will remain that no matter what D/D build you run now, it will always be a deviation of the build he popularized.

Regardless if he was able to kill people or not, it was Daphoenix who made D/D famous and we can at least credit him that. We can even say that most D/D builds today originated from his build.

rhodoc.2381:

As a staff player, a dev said staff ele got stronk. But there was nothing about staff in patch notes. I might be missing a batch of notes.

In short, it is same kitten as before for me. The only thing which keeps me playing as ele is “Fresh Air” which i strongly dont want it to be exist like Diamond Skin.

I think he’s referring to Aquatic Benevolence and/or Lightning Rod. Maybe we just haven’t discovered what specific build he was referring to.

One thing I know despite people disagreeing, Blinding Ashes is definitely good for 1v1s (and I kitten hope they increase the blind target to 3 to make it viable in team fights). Aquatic Benevolence is a solid skill for cleric builds.

PvP is filled with new players below rank 20. Don’t take it seriously when people say “This build/class is so strong now” because chances are they are playing against newbies who are still learning.

Blinding Ashes – Really Good in 1v1 except against petting zoos and mesmers.

Lightning Rod – I use it on my Staff Ele. I’m not exactly sure if it’s making an impact. There are times when I think that Tempest Defense is still better with the bonus damage against KD’ed enemies.

Stone Heart – This is the trait I’m most excited about YET I haven’t really tested builds on this. I’ve been enjoying playing with Aquatic Benevolence.

Aquatic Benevolence – Sure, this trait is useless for solo players but it’s really awesome in teamplay. I think there will now be at least 1 or 2 Cleric DD Elementalists in GvG fights.

Elemental Contingency – Wut?

Necros shouldn’t really have any problems with eles as they’re still the same pre-patch in terms of survivability and condi cleanses. Just spam your conditions as soon as they leave Water Attunement and get ready to interrupt Ether Renewal.

I have yet to try dueling a necro using Blinding Ashes though. I’m not sure if it’ll work since going 6 max into fire means less points for Water and Arcana.

Only Burning Speed (Evasion Frame), Water Trident (Regen), and Armor of Earth (CD Reduction) were buffed in PvE that increases survivability. On the other hand, dungeon mobs got nerfed so it became really easy.

If you weren’t using either of the skills mentioned above, it’s probably you’ve improved as an ele

Pre-patch Dragon’s Tooth will still be activated even if you don’t finish the cast animation. After the patch they changed it so that it will cancel

It’s either you got too used to canceling the animation or it really is a bug in case you weren’t canceling it mid-animation pre-patch. IIRC it’s somewhere in the patch notes

I like DD more than Staff with Aquatic Benevolence. I run a standard full clerics from Armor to Trinkets. 0/0/2/6/6 with monk runes. Sigils are either Benevolence/Energy/Renewal. You’ll have roughly 1.4k Healing Power and your Cleansing Wave + Water EA should heal somewhere about 4k+ on your allies. You also have healing Ripple and Sigil of Renewal which is pretty good. You’ll have around 13k HP and 2.7k Armor. Switch to water + EA dodge should pretty much heal half of your HP

The only problem you’ll encounter as a healbot is that your heals have pretty much small radius. You’ll probably also melt to condi bursts since you have very low HP.

I love going full clerics DD with a 0/0/2/6/6 build in WvW. Sigil of Benevolence with Sigil of Renewal. All the heals in the world. The only disadvantage it has is the healing radius compared to a healer guardian’s.

Did Aquatic Benevolence make Eles strong individually? No, everything is the same pre-patch. But with a decent group who knows their roles it’s very fun.

If Eles are still this good after a month, we can say the buffs worked out for us. I’m hitting Dragon’s Tooth and Fire Grab a lot now in PvP so I’m still convinced that PvP is still filled with PvE players that just want the Reward Tracks.

Wintel.4873:

ens.9854:

To follow up, I did some quick hotjoin tests with a maximum healing effectiveness build.

With 25 stacks of benev, aquatic B, and monk runes
soothing mist ~220hp/s on teammates
regeneration ~450hp/s on teammates

these are… pretty high numbers (like 1.7 healing signets?), this is not even mentioning the burst heals/blast finishers, or even staff autoattack

edit: soothing mist + battle presence + regen + healing signet #thedream

Noooo stop doing this, you’re going to convince everyone that Ele’s are the best healers and then our meta will be forever doomed to being healing slaves :S

Better be best at something than be best at nothing

But lol, Eles were known as “Blind Bots” in GW1, we’ll be “Heal Bots” in GW2!

OneManArmy.9732:

Vash Past.4385:

How do I ‘get the stars to align’ to do 14k with one hit with my Ele?(Who has no invisibility mechanic and less armor). Oh that’s right, I can’t.

phoenix+electric discharge+arcane wave,blast+fire/air sigils+lightning flash+air2 scepter +rtl= 20-25k in 1sec.

But it’s not “One Hit” and it consists of using multiple high CD skills unlike thief burst. That burst you mentioned has a 40 second cooldown because of LF and requires you to do it perfectly and crit *every single skill *to get to that 20k damage you claim. I’m not even sure if it will reach 20-25k damage against medium/heavy armor classes.

Compare it to the requirement of just being in stealth and hitting your target from his back or his sides. IMO they should rework Backstab. Make it hit 2x Damage on literal “Backstabs” and 1.75x Damage on “sidestabs”.

If you are zerging, you might find Sigil of Renewal useless because it has a 300 AoE radius. If you’re playing staff you’ll usually be in the backlines and Sigil of Renewal’s radius won’t be of much help to your zerg.

I strongly suggest Sigil of Restoration as your 2nd sigil especially if you’re having problems with retaliation.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Restoration

You’ll mostly be in Fire and Water in PvE because these 2 are mostly the only ones you need. I only switch to Earth for control and might stacking and Air for swiftness and Static Field.

In PvP or WvW you’ll find yourself switching a lot more because you will need to adapt to your current situation.

oZii.2864:

The ele builds didn’t really change much its the celestial ammy and might stacking. They still play the same and I am willing to bet the other classes still do it better. Ele won’t get in the meta just because it can might stack and sustain with celestial ammy not if it’s the standard builds people are running. There are classes that still do it better for the roles available.

Im not saying it’s not in a better place it is but the core is still there. So sure you can might stack up to 25 run around and do better as in better then before. When it comes to top meta I don’t think it will cut it because it can’t break in just because it can stack might well now. Thief will still be top damage and isn’t that all that might is really? So why take a might stacking ele? There is no reason to.

Agreed. Main reasons why people seem Ele is OP right now especially in PvP:

1. Many people are still trying out and learning new builds.
2. There has been a huge influx of “Newbies” and players who mainly play PvE because of the Balthazar rewards. If you check out hotjoin you’ll see a lot of people below r20. Sure, you beat them 1v2 or 1v3 but their skill level is very low.
3. Ele players are used to being trashed around by the meta. Now that they’re arguably on the same level as other classes, they find themselves OP

Even solo queues pop now within 5 seconds after you queue which doesn’t normally happen pre-patch. Let’s just calm down and wait for a few more weeks then we can really tell if Ele is OP (which I believe isn’t)

oZii.2864:

LordByron.8369:

Already did >.> only doubt i have is:
Sigil of air or sigil of strength?

Air IMO scales straight from power according to wiki the base damage is 955 (1.1 scaling). I’ve seen 1600 damage from it before.

Agreed. I think Battle + Air would be better for bursty might stacking builds.

zilcho.7624:

Fresh Air is still our most viable PvP build, I think. But you need to play it differently now, with the crit damage nerfs.

So far, I’ve had the most success with 0/30/0/10/30 combined with Vigor stacking. With the new 30 point Arcana trait, you can really keep Vigor up. Between dodge and blind, you can 1v1 pretty well.

All that said, ele is still garbage tier. You’ll still get blown apart. And this patch failed to fix us. We might be just a tiny bit better, but it is negligible.

Wasn’t Crit Damage in PvP remain unchanged?

It works just fine for me.

Naevius.3185:

Light version (unconfirmed):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Creator_Zee

Confirmed. This is the Light version

I know it’s too early too assume but I’ll do it anyway.

D/D Support/Bunker Ele is now somewhat comparable to a Support/Bunker Guardian.

You share less boons but the burst healing you offer is incomparable.

It’s day 1, many people are trying out new builds both PvP players and PvE players. If you check their PvP ranks most of the players in PvP today were below 20, at least in my case.

Only thing I really find ridiculous is the new Runes of Balthazar.

Will Anet give refunds to players who bought multiple skins of the same type?

Example, I have a warrior and a guardian and I bought both of them a set of Heavy Phalanx Armor. Now that skins are “account bound” I believe those people who bought multiple skins of the same type deserve a compensation.

Not sure if they just failed to update it. IIRC the old Rune of Monk 6th bonus gives an AoE Aegis when you use an elite skill. It makes more sense if they just failed to update the wiki properly

Anet, please. Make it 3 targets.

Tried it on a friendly match vs hambow. The “random” blinds annoyed the hell out of him

Sigil of Hydromancy does damage and if I’m not mistaken it scales on Power and crits too.

Talonblaze.3175:

Evilek.5690:

Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.

Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.

Kill shot
Damage Level 1 damage: 869 (2.25)?
Damage Level 2 damage: 1,063 (2.75)?
Damage Level 3 damage: 1,256 (3.25)?

Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?

Your logic is really wrong

So is yours apparently. You might get 6 seconds off Killshot’s CD if you trait fully into Discipline. It’s 9 without.

All the other things you mentioned are utilities that can be used by any build. Very few run Rifle to begin with (I’m likely one of the few). You need to build for KS to be even half effective.

Also it roots you for almost 2 seconds. Completely exposed and vulnerable. Doing any other action breaks it. Which, also puts it on cooldown.
Also you making it seem like Warriors spam Killshot every time its off cooldown is only if they have the adrenaline for it too.

It’s MUCH easier to land a Backstab than a Killshot ever will be and its much easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative. Also KS is much easier to dodge too. I’m not even counting you being able to stealth for Backstab either.

Exactly what I was trying to point out. And you don’t even need to be a signet thief to deal massive Backstab damage.

BTW if you’re having problems killing warriors as a thief, maybe you should rethink how you play your class. Thief is one of the few classes that have a big advantage against warriors unless they run.

And what Logic is wrong? Backstab’s logic is wrong. It’s called Backstab because you need to hit your target from the back to deal 2x damage but apparently hitting them from the sides will also net you 2x damage.

Well, I’ll definitely at least try Stone Heart staff bunker in PvP with x/x/30/x/x. I’ll stay in earth and spam #1 for weakness and watch then hit me for puny direct damage just for the lulz. Of course I’ll still most probably melt against Engis and Necros

Someone from Anet previously mentioned in another player’s Twitch stream that he believes that the Ele nerfs went overboard. Take note, he also stated that Elementalists will most probably get buffed if they are still in the bottom tier in PvP after the April 15th patch. He said they want to see how the new changes would work out with the Elementalist first but he’s all in for Elementalis buffs in general.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!

He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!

All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.

Not I

Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”

’That’s it in a nutshell’

I have never been hit by ANYTHING for that much, nor have I hit anything that high, not even an up-leveled light armor character. I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth before and a 15k killshot. Never a backstab.

As an almost full glass build, with 25 Bloodlust stacks, 5 Applied Strength stacks, and 25 might from guardians empowering (which probably brings me to around 4,000 total Attack rating), I can hit about 12k-15k on a tower claimer NPC in WvW depending on how much vulnerability my guild’s necro puts on him. Take away the 25 stacks of might and I hit about 9k backstab on the claimer.

Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.

You’re either making it up, or the people you talk to in your guild are making it up to upset you.

Might stacking Signet thieves easily hit 10k~12k Backstabs against glassy elementalists in PvP. It should be more broken in WvW.

Churning Earth has 3.25s casting time. Kill Shot has 1.75s casting time. Backstab has .25s casting time. All skills deal massive damage but only backstab can be used repeatedly and accurately in a short span of time.

PU Mesmer is like the cheapest build to play in 1v1 scenarios. I don’t think I even have 200 hrs on my mesmer but I can “easily” beat experienced players not because I’m good but because the build has a very low skill cap. Of course I lose from time to time but it’s more likely because I messed up big time.

I can’t even imagine why someone who has 1000 hours of play time and good knowledge of every class would bother playing PU unless they’re just trolling.

1. The easiest to fight is as an Ele would be a pure Condi PU with Scepter/Torch and Staff. Get Diamond skin, always maintain your HP above 90% which should be easy because staff and scepter has very poor physical damage.

2. If you know they lack condi removal, it would be best to use a tanky chill-mentalist build. Take GoEP, Sigil of Hydromancy, and maybe Elemental Surge + Arcane Power. Try to apply chill before they go into stealth so you can just can cleave your skills and you know you’ll hit them unless they waste a blink.

Relentless.7023:

They are really strong in PvP because of the size of the points. Foefire they lose a little bit of that advantage at mid, which is why those fights last forever.

Don’t let people like O Eggs or Reevzy fool you it’s not an intelligent playstyle it’s just APM benefitting from the way Anet designed the game.

Shots fired. I agree with you that Engi becomes easy to play and the PvP map should be given a lot of credit. But if you actually watch OE’s playstyle you’ll know he’s using skills for a purpose, not just spamming like most other Engineers do.

Maybe they should put Reveal debuff on certain skills for every class, probably the lesser used skills. One example I could think of which makes sense the most is Engineer’s Utility Goggles.

hooma.9642:

Kyon.9735:

hooma.9642:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

The sigil change is a slight buff to every class, which is a lesser buff for ele and engi, and a slightly bigger buff to warriors, simply because they are removing the shared cooldown for on-swap sigils. The nerf on killstack sigils affects ele and engi more than anyone else because they use half of their sigils instead of one of four.
If you’re too stupid to understand that, it’s your own fault and you should stop posting in this thread.
The only arguments against compensating ele and engi in some way for this change are that the change is either not significant enough to merit compensation, or that other classes need to be buffed past ele and engi. I think Burnfall is the only person on this entire forum that thinks that other classes need to be buffed past ele further.

if u would play pvp u would see thats not a problem at all with your stacking sigills. also the on-swap sigills only buffing warrior if they really really really really swap weapons every 5 secs.

I mainly play PvP now. How is it not a problem at all?

cause u could never ever unequip in pvp. so the update bring nothing new. the max-amount of sigill with or without stacking is still the same. 4 vs 2

all what will change in pvp is the removing of the icd. but to be honest that will result in lowered effects of sigill to avoid stacking.

thats why it doesnt matter if some class has 4 different sigills available or only 2.

You are only taking into account when both Ele/Engi and Warrior/All other classes take in On-Swap Sigils. Yes, they are 4 is to 2 regarding on-swap sigils.

Now how about when both classes decide to take a stacking sigil? Now it becomes 3 is to 1 for on-swap sigils unless Anet would require Warrior/Etc to have stacking sigils on both weapon sets.

I don’t want to be mean but this is very simple math and logic.

I think we shouldn’t be comparing the Damage between Power and Condi because the result is obvious. What should be discussed here is how easy it is to play Condi builds compared to Power builds. What should be compared is the risk/reward between the two builds.

Of course, I think we should be in a mutual agreement that HamBow shouldn’t be put into discussion because it is a fact that it is a broken build.

Terrahero.9358:

Kyon.9735:

Aberrant.6749:

Kyon.9735:

Aberrant.6749:

Inaccurate… damage wise you need power/pre/crit dmg Vs. Cond/Pre/cond duration.

Depending on class the pre is extremely important. The burn from IP on eng is a large part of their damage. The classes that don’t have these sorts of things have other issues such as not being able to apply enough conditions to prevent cleansing.

The toughness/vit is needed more with a cond class because you need to be able to stay alive while the dot’s tick and be able to re-apply them as they are cleansed. Should those two stats be given for free on all armors as well? No, because you have similar tradeoffs with both power and cond.

Crit damage applies to all damage regardless while condition duration needs to hit the next 1s mark to do anything at all.

Damage wise power does more damage than conditions, but conds get other control benefits instead.

Seems pretty well balanced to me as is and I use both power and cond builds on a daily basis.

PvP-wise, most condi players especially engis don’t even take condi duration runes. It’s only “needed” in WvW because people use -Condi Duration food.

With the ease of applying conditions, all you need to do is apply a condi and go defensive as you watch your target waste his cleanses then you will simply reapply them again and go defensive.

Look at the PvP trinkets. Soldier, Barbarian, and Valkyrie amulets will never be fully utilized because it will always lack Precision or Crit Damage stat. Rabid, Carrion, and Settler however are deadly as they are even without Condi Duration or Precision.

PvP wise often they do. Getting +50% burn duration on Eng is huge. It’s not uncommon for an eng to take a sigil for +10% burning to hit that with traits + runes. Nightmare runes are common amongst many cond builds. It’s also a consideration when you’re building your trait-lines.

It’s not just spam conds then go defensive. That only works at lower stuff/hotjoin. There are so many ways that conds can get wiped/reduced/avoided it’s not even funny. You need to apply/reapply them at the right times to get the effects you need when you need them.

Conds also take longer Vs. Direct damage. In PvP this translates into longer times needed to kill & cap/decap points which translates into score.

If you don’t have pre you’re not getting the on crit procs. If you don’t have duration they’ll fall off faster due to reduction (again lower damage).

Still not seeing any problems.

So you say Condi Duration is a “needed” stat yet there are no trinkets that offer +condi duration which probably proves +condi duration is not considered a primary stat. Even without +Condi Duration, condis are very deadly in PvP.

And yes, from time to time you’ll find people running Nightmare Runes or Sigil of Smoldering but most of the time you’d see people use Runes of Adventurer or Sigil of Battle (especially on engis). The +Condi Duration bonus from traits are more than enough.

There are weapons with condition duration.

Its not an easy stat t come by, but it most certainly detracts from the total budget a player has to spend. (weapons + armor + trinkets + runes + sigils).

Runes spend on getting one thing are not being spend to get another. If i get condition duration from runes, i am not getting crit damage.

We were talking about PvP so I only mentioned trinkets. Let’s face it, cheesy builds in PvP are way cheesier in WvW because of Food and Gear optimization. Just look at the +Condi Duration food. It buffs both Offensive (Bleed, Burn, etc) and Defensive/Snare conditions (Immobilize, Cripple, Weakness, Chill) on top of giving you +70 condition damage. No Power based Food will give you both Offensive and Defensive bonuses in a single effect.

IMO the real reason why players take +40% condi duration food is that it buffs your offensive and defensive condis on top of +70 Condition Damage. The other reason is that many players use -40% condi duration food and it gives you a really big advantage against players who don’t use that food.

hooma.9642:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

The sigil change is a slight buff to every class, which is a lesser buff for ele and engi, and a slightly bigger buff to warriors, simply because they are removing the shared cooldown for on-swap sigils. The nerf on killstack sigils affects ele and engi more than anyone else because they use half of their sigils instead of one of four.
If you’re too stupid to understand that, it’s your own fault and you should stop posting in this thread.
The only arguments against compensating ele and engi in some way for this change are that the change is either not significant enough to merit compensation, or that other classes need to be buffed past ele and engi. I think Burnfall is the only person on this entire forum that thinks that other classes need to be buffed past ele further.

if u would play pvp u would see thats not a problem at all with your stacking sigills. also the on-swap sigills only buffing warrior if they really really really really swap weapons every 5 secs.

I mainly play PvP now. How is it not a problem at all?

Aberrant.6749:

Kyon.9735:

Aberrant.6749:

Inaccurate… damage wise you need power/pre/crit dmg Vs. Cond/Pre/cond duration.

Depending on class the pre is extremely important. The burn from IP on eng is a large part of their damage. The classes that don’t have these sorts of things have other issues such as not being able to apply enough conditions to prevent cleansing.

The toughness/vit is needed more with a cond class because you need to be able to stay alive while the dot’s tick and be able to re-apply them as they are cleansed. Should those two stats be given for free on all armors as well? No, because you have similar tradeoffs with both power and cond.

Crit damage applies to all damage regardless while condition duration needs to hit the next 1s mark to do anything at all.

Damage wise power does more damage than conditions, but conds get other control benefits instead.

Seems pretty well balanced to me as is and I use both power and cond builds on a daily basis.

PvP-wise, most condi players especially engis don’t even take condi duration runes. It’s only “needed” in WvW because people use -Condi Duration food.

With the ease of applying conditions, all you need to do is apply a condi and go defensive as you watch your target waste his cleanses then you will simply reapply them again and go defensive.

Look at the PvP trinkets. Soldier, Barbarian, and Valkyrie amulets will never be fully utilized because it will always lack Precision or Crit Damage stat. Rabid, Carrion, and Settler however are deadly as they are even without Condi Duration or Precision.

PvP wise often they do. Getting +50% burn duration on Eng is huge. It’s not uncommon for an eng to take a sigil for +10% burning to hit that with traits + runes. Nightmare runes are common amongst many cond builds. It’s also a consideration when you’re building your trait-lines.

It’s not just spam conds then go defensive. That only works at lower stuff/hotjoin. There are so many ways that conds can get wiped/reduced/avoided it’s not even funny. You need to apply/reapply them at the right times to get the effects you need when you need them.

Conds also take longer Vs. Direct damage. In PvP this translates into longer times needed to kill & cap/decap points which translates into score.

If you don’t have pre you’re not getting the on crit procs. If you don’t have duration they’ll fall off faster due to reduction (again lower damage).

Still not seeing any problems.

So you say Condi Duration is a “needed” stat yet there are no trinkets that offer +condi duration which probably proves +condi duration is not considered a primary stat. Even without +Condi Duration, condis are very deadly in PvP.

And yes, from time to time you’ll find people running Nightmare Runes or Sigil of Smoldering but most of the time you’d see people use Runes of Adventurer or Sigil of Battle (especially on engis). The +Condi Duration bonus from traits are more than enough.

This “fix” is needed. I main an Ele and I acknowledge how ridiculous this is in PvP. Your opponents will just say “wtf I’m getting 3k+ crits out of nowhere” before they notice the falling meteors and randomly run away from what they think is the AoE.

With this “fix”, sure Eles can consider this a nerf now that they’ll probably land MS a lot less than before. But let’s hope this will open Anet’s eyes that Eles shouldn’t depend on “bugs” to be viable.

Aberrant.6749:

Inaccurate… damage wise you need power/pre/crit dmg Vs. Cond/Pre/cond duration.

Depending on class the pre is extremely important. The burn from IP on eng is a large part of their damage. The classes that don’t have these sorts of things have other issues such as not being able to apply enough conditions to prevent cleansing.

The toughness/vit is needed more with a cond class because you need to be able to stay alive while the dot’s tick and be able to re-apply them as they are cleansed. Should those two stats be given for free on all armors as well? No, because you have similar tradeoffs with both power and cond.

Crit damage applies to all damage regardless while condition duration needs to hit the next 1s mark to do anything at all.

Damage wise power does more damage than conditions, but conds get other control benefits instead.

Seems pretty well balanced to me as is and I use both power and cond builds on a daily basis.

PvP-wise, most condi players especially engis don’t even take condi duration runes. It’s only “needed” in WvW because people use -Condi Duration food.

With the ease of applying conditions, all you need to do is apply a condi and go defensive as you watch your target waste his cleanses then you will simply reapply them again and go defensive.

Look at the PvP trinkets. Soldier, Barbarian, and Valkyrie amulets will never be fully utilized because it will always lack Precision or Crit Damage stat. Rabid, Carrion, and Settler however are deadly as they are even without Condi Duration or Precision.

hooma.9642:

Broscience.8412:

The problem is the stacking sigils and we have every right to qq about it since this change is not fair at all. All classes with weapon swap can make use of 3 sigils in one set if they run a stacking sigil, opposed to eles and engis which can only utilize 2 sigils at all times.

which is exactly the same like before.

so all other classes should start to qq cause they only has 2 weaponsets?

honestly stop comparing bits of a complex system against each other. this mindset makes me sick.

The difference is that all other classes had fewer options before and can’t proc more than 1 on-swap sigil at a time.

Do you want to use an offensive sigil like Sigil of Battle or a defensive one like Sigil of Energy? Back then they had to choose. But now, you can get both on one weapon set and put your stacking sigil on another while Eles and Engis are stuck with just 1 on-swap sigil if they choose to get a stacking sigil.

This is my biggest woe when playing a classic glass 0/30/10/0/30 glass S/F Elementalist in PvP. With Zerker amulet and Runes of Ogre, you’ll have roughly 14k HP and the total damage of this thief combo over 15k. My fault here was I failed to recognize that there was a thief lurking around. What was not my fault was that I died without any chance to react.

Some people may say it’s just L2P, but IMO there’s no L2P when you die against a pre-cast CnD + Steal into Backstab combo with Basilisk Venom.

What I’m trying to point out is that even though Mesmer and Necro are in lowest Armor tier, they still have medium/high HP. Guardians have the lowest HP but they have High Armor. If this happened to a glass guardian/necro/mesmer, they’ll pretty much have some amount of HP left to be able to pop defensive skills.

I’m well aware that Elementalists, especially Focus Off-hand, has decent amount of active defenses but they’re pretty much useless if you don’t get the chance to activate them.

If you compare Elementalist damage to other classes in zerk gear, they’re pretty much equal aside from Meteor Storm + Tornado combo.

I’d prefer if we can control when they use their skills. I’d sure love the on-demand heal and chill AoE field from Water elemental, protection and stun from Earth, swiftness and stun on Air, might and cripple from Fire.