Guild Wars 2

Dual.8953:

Burnfall.9573:

It is not called “Hate” it’s called Resentment.

Thief Resentment in General.

Favoritism of Thief class is the cause of Resentment.

Arena net; the Parent of the classes, is Responsible of Playing Favorites.

And Yes!

It will never go away until Arena net avoid playing Favorites.

To Acknowledge, Accept, and Treat every class as Unique.

Favourite my backside. Thieves are only good for roaming in world v world and world completion and pretty much suck at everything else. You want favourite, get a load of Guardians. They’re good in pretty much all situations.

Guardians are requested for parties in all modes, unlike thieves who are almost ever requested for anything.

Don’t bother, He just doesn’t have a fraking idea of what he’s talking about.

If thieves are favourite in something is in recieving nerfs and getting their class mechanics messed almost to the point of uselesness.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Thief is blatantly overpowered in WvW, but little more than a minor annoyance in PvP. I would go as far as to say many things in PvP require a buff when considering a Thief.

Then, it’s obvious that WvW is bad designed, and that’s not thief’s fault.

Stop asking for thief nerfs and ask for a better WvW.

I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about it. It’s a lottery. You don’t say things like:

“Hey! I bought a lot of lottery numbers!!! I’m supporting the lottery system!!! I DEMAND a prize!!!!”

or

“I have been buying lottery tickets for the past 30 years and this guy -who never buys lotto- finds a lost ticket on the street and it turns to be a prized number!!!! INJUSTICE!!!! I DEMAND my prize!!!!!!”

All lottery systems are based on human expectations. Yes, you may WANT the item, but you have a very low chance of getting it, and astronomically low chances if you don’t buy tickets… Yet, there’s always winners and losers.

Nobody is cheating you but yourselves. NCsoft is not saying you: “if you buy tickets you’ll get the skins”, but “… you MAY get the skins”. It’s the intensity of your cravings (collecting, exclusiveness, coolness) what dictates how many tickets are you willing to buy for those chances. As simply as that.

Cravings fall into the group of human NEEDS. You WANT it because you NEED it, whether you like it not. NCsoft knows your weakness, and implements a lottery system for you. The only thing to blame here is your own human nature.

You are weak. Admit it, embrace it, and stop whinning about it. In a lottery system, there will be always very few winners and millions of losers. If you can’t stand feeling like a loser, don’t play in first place.

The system is implemented because it works… in other words, people are buying chests. The forums only become the crying place of those who can’t stand their bad luck, or those who can’t acknowledge that all the blame fall on themselves.

BTW, your ‘boycott’ and ‘No more money’ and ‘Will stop playing’ threats are void, or even laughable in some cases. You can’t boycott the system because you don’t have the means to do so. ‘No more money on chests’ threat is void, since it’s entirely optional and absolutely not required for a full game experience, and ‘Will stop playing’ argument… Well… the game has no subscription fee, you’re free to come and go whenever you see fit.

9 slashes? Count better…

Personally, I’d like for Body shot the possibility of ‘charging’ it for a more potent shot.

Thus, just pressing the button gets you the actual body shot. But If you hold it for 2-3 seconds, you’d get a more potent version (+damage? +vuln. stacks?) and a blast finisher centered around you.

Well, it’s called LAST refuge for a reason…

You won’t live to put another one

Numot.3965:

Because unless they decide to give them cool downs this problem is going to never go away, it will just shift to another skill if and when it gets buffed. Strong skills need more prohibitive cost, otherwise they will used repetitively for max gain.

Thief weapon-skills are meant to be used repetitively for max gain.

That’s the whole frakin point of the initative system.

1- Do the enemy has boons?
2- If Enemyboon=yes then use Lacernous strike, goto 1.
3- If Enemyboon=no then use next maxgain weapon skill.

Olterin Fire.5960:

Personal suggestion on how the skill could conceivably be changed to work at least semi-fluidly: soft cap of 1200 game units, hard cap 1800 game units. With the soft cap being as it is now (although I’d love for it to return to the original functionality, and I think it wouldn’t be (as) ‘game-breaking’ as it was before any changes), and the hard cap meaning that if you moved more than 1800 game units from the original location, the skill would reset to Infiltrator’s Strike (I think this would at least reduce the disorientation possibilities). Thoughts?

I like this suggestion, but this is because I’d like more ‘gap-closing’ functionality on IS. However, many other people just want to keep it as a ‘get out of jail and take me home across the seven seas’ card, which is not entirely bad, but I think it constrains too much the skill’s versatility.

Oh! , we have a new local troll, welcome to the thief forums. You can find kitten pomade on the left shelf, and thief strawmans on the closet for your ventings, insults, disdain, and overall feelings of superiority.

Rearding the topic, mobs usually face you all time when fightin them, so, just before stealthing, take note of their facing and use it as a reference for the backstab. If you are going to start from stealth, wait until they move to make sure wich side is their front. (Most mobs only move forward)

Anyways, backstab has a certain degree of tolerance with the angle. You don’t have to be exactly at 180º form their front to kick it in.

I’m eager to check how much time will it take for people to begin exploiting it to bypass walls and gates…

Much like they exploited Super Adventure Box ‘Max Zoom lock’ to fire siege/arrowcarts at incredible angles.

That’s what happens when you try to fix something that was like that for a reason which the own developers forgot.

Now they have to fix the reason why they made SR unlimited in first place… ROFL

I agree !!! It’s about time to end this obvious abuse and brokeness !!!!

Shadow return should be instantly cancelled as soon as you move futher than 1200 range from the ‘anchor’ and revert to Infiltrator Strike.

That would theach those abusers to use the skill properly.

Edit: typo

Usually a tough choice. Using it as a diversion usually doesn’t pay off unless you are severely outnumbered.

Agaisnt one or 2 opponents it’s usually better learning to dodge inside the circle.

Do you see a mesmer?… Is he carrying a Greatsword?… Is he smiling?… He wants to use illusionary Wave on your Shadow Refuge !!!!!

Better be prepared

sorrow.2364:

Kyrion.2749:

Yeah please, do the math and do yourself a favor.

Oh! and I forgot ‘Black Powder’ which is = ‘Stand motionless just auto-shooting (with the all-known famous and powerful pistol autoattack) because you don’t have initiative for anything else’. And of course, you will still eat those AoEs and ranged attacks.

PD: The part about ‘powerful pistol auto-attack’ was irony…. just in case.

There is quite a long post about math, you should check it out.

Who said you should use Black Powder with pistol mainhand?

I assumed, since we were talking about DPS comparisons between WAR and THF. D/P is not usually seen in dungeons, because:
- The stealth chain is more expensive than D/D or S/D and takes a bit longer to perform, thus, less backstabs per minute = less DPS.
- Having to use Heartseeker to stealth in order to get your backstabs is contraproducent DPS-wise on bosses at +25% life.
- The dual skill is not used much, since monsters don’t kite you… they come to you!!!, thus, making it very situational at best.
- And of course, the blind field is useless on bosses, albeit somehow decent vs trash mobs. Anyways, if you’re spamming Black Powder, you’ll scarcely have initative to do anything else, including the needed heartseekers for stealth.

P/P is more common in dungeons than D/P because you have ‘Unload’, which is not spectacular to begin with, but at least is ranged and safer for the thief.

Yeah please, do the math and do yourself a favor.

Oh! and I forgot ‘Black Powder’ which is = ‘Stand motionless just auto-shooting (with the all-known famous and powerful pistol autoattack) because you don’t have initiative for anything else’. And of course, you will still eat those AoEs and ranged attacks.

PD: The part about ‘powerful pistol auto-attack’ was irony…. just in case.

sorrow.2364:

Avoiding damage doesn’t necessarily means dodging.
Guess what, thieves can do damage while evading!
It is called Pistol Whip, Flanking Strike and CnD+Backstab chain (since Stealth is almost invulnerability in PvE).
Oh, they can also do damage while blinding your melee enemy with Black Powder!

So you think no Thief charge to monsters screaming “I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!”? Yeah, you’re probably right.
They usually scream “’I’M THE UBAH THIEEEEF!!!! UUURGHH!!!!” when they are charging mindlessly to monsters.

Pistol Whip = Nerfed to same damage (if not less) than autoattack, eats initiative. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

Flanking strike = The evade part is movement, so you are not attacking… Exactly the same as if you dodged. Lacernous Strike hits for about the same as the #3 autoattack, so again, you lose DPS against a sustained auto-attack chain. Besides, if you main-hand sword, you already lost the DPS race against a warrior.

CnD & BS = Ha ha, Quite on the contrary. Stealth is anything but invulnerability in PvE. To begin with, to sustain the C&D+BS chain you are in stealth like… 0.5 seconds, since you want to BS as soon as possible to keep high DPS. If you remain in stealth, the mob won’t target you, true, but surprise!! surprise!! you won’t do any damage as long as you stay on stealth. Furthermore, unlike players, mobs are smarter and keep doing their attack routine, regardless of seeing you or not, and you will eat all their AoE attacks, and attacks aimed to teammates if you are close, stealthed or not. In PvE, and specially in dungeons, Stealth is only an anti-aggro tool at the cost of ZERO DPS.

Since many people have difficulties to grasp the concept, here is a quick, easy to figure chart:

STEALTH —-———— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DON’T do damage
INVULNERABILTY—— MOBS don’t do damage —- YOU DO damage

sorrow.2364:

DanH.5879:

i would also like to know the answer .

The answer is simple as daylight.
Thieves are different from warrior.
People take time to understand this simple thing and run dungeon on Thief just like it was a Warrior, they fail hard and harder, to the point they created prejudices like “Thief is bad in PvE”, “Thieves are squishy” and “Warriors are better”. Those are bullkittens.

Play your thief as it is supposed to be played. Dodge damage instead of just swinging your sword and forget about it, that’s all.

Nosense. No one who plays a thief charges to monsters screaming ’I’M THE UBAH WAARRIAHHH!!!! UUURGHH!!!!’ Nobody does that. That’s nothing more than another of those prejudices spread mostly by thief haters.

However, you are right in only one thing: thieves are different from warriors, Yes, they have to dodge in combat and disengage from time to time to stay alive.

While dodging/disengaging they are not attacking, thus, not DPS.

So, even if in the ‘DPS-meter’ thieves were remotely close to warriors in the theory (which is highly arguable), in practice, they will end up doing less overall DPS anyways, because they suffer much more ‘time-outs’ from dodges, stealths, and disengages. A simple as that.

If thieves had more base damage to compensate for the extra time-out or if they could keep doing damage while evading, then, we could truly start speaking about DPS equality in dungeons.

DeWolfe.2174:

^ I’ll agree with you on that Funset. Out of 8 professions, the other 7 have to make a special build to counter one? That right there shows reasoning for my question.

Many professions have to make special builds to counter others. Thieves are not an exception. They too require especial builds to take down (to have a chance of) bunker elementalists, guardians, etc etc… Contrary to the popular (ignorant) belief, the ‘general’ glass cannon backstab build is only able to reliably take down upleveled and noo… err… ‘begginers’.

If this is, “Uhg. Another Thief cry post.” that validates my point. You said “another” as in there must be more to many other post. Signifying an issues for many. You also said “Crying” which signifies that this one profession infuriates the other 7, right. Thus, should my question then be, how is making players cry a good thing? Aren’t they just going to stop playing?

Oh I see, so deleting a popular playstyle that is requested in every MMO should be the wiser and better choice for the company.
And about crying… you know what a vocal minority is, right?

For “Get some anti stealth traps in wvw.” So the other 7 have to spend to counter one? Meanwhile, that one already has a cost advantage by not having to pay for armor repair as often. How is that good or remotely fair for the other 7 classes?

As fair as having one dedicated trap that specifically counters that one class, I suppose. When I see anti-clone/minion/pet traps, or anti-protection/healing traps, I’ll be open to further debate about fairness.
And about having a reapir cost advantage, maybe those other professions that don’t die in first place (even in the middle of an enemy zerg) should be able to illustrate further on the subject.

Every way I look at it, it’s appears to be a very selfish decision to have this class in the game. It seems to only exist to be a constant thorn in peoples sides. What I can’t understand is, how is that good for a game? How is this supposed to create greater enjoyment for the majority of players? Morally, why even reward playing the label of thief with such abilities? Shouldn’t the cost come to them to reinforce the societal standards of crime doesn’t pay!

You don’t like thieves, point taken. Many other players do, you should take the point.

Night Fiend.1942:

Thieves are great for applying conditions and boons with the proper group setup. With our spammable blast finisher, we can give a group 25 stacks of might within seconds, or apply mass vulnerability or blind.

Call me extravagant… but I like to play killing monsters, not circles on the floor…

I guess it has to do something with the change made for WvsW so that screens couldn’t destroy certain siege projectiles.

Big Tom should had the ‘special projectile’ switch ‘enabled’ by default, thus, things get messed up automatically, as always, and one of our few utilities that are worthy for dungeon play is rendered totally useless.

Thanks God that thieves have an easy time finding groups for high-lvl dungeons…. Oh wait….

You are a bit late for the alpha testing phase…

Well firstly, as other have said, if the thief got away from you easily, you don’t in fact outplayed him.

It seems that you found a resilient enough build (bunker) able to withstand damage from a typical thief assault. So… What do you expect the thief to do?

“Ok, this ranger is hard as a nail… I barely touch him with my attacks, while he keeps maiming me with theirs…. However, I will stay here to the death, taking repair costs and giving him badges because he deserves to kill me”

Don’t get offence, but you are bit naive.

That said, the best way to pin down a thief are stuns (dazing also works) and knockdows. Cripple and inmobilize are usually pretty irrelevant to thieves, unless you catch them in a severe skill cooldown.

However, your truly best chance to catch a thief is luring him into thinking that they can still win the battle. If the thief throws everything at you at barely dents you 10% of your life, he will lose interest and disengage. And you won’t be able to catch him, since most of his defensive abilities will be ready. But if you manage to take wounds and play like if you were about to die (even if you are not, because you know you can quickly heal or prevent death easily) the thief will stay no matter what to go for the kill. That is how you truly outplay a thief.

As long as he thinks he has chance, he will stay. Keep your life about the same level as him, and he won’t run.

Many people already suggested the same modification.

I’m more of the opinion that steal should give thieves not one, but 2 especific skills related to the stolen profession/mob (F2 & F3) and let thieves choose which one to use (using one will discard the other). That way, we could introduce more control or support options for thieves, without touching the already existing skills.

Also, many of the ‘steal traits’ should be merged with the existing minor traits, and be more evenly distributed across the different trait lines, thus, freeing space for some new major traits.

Finally, a slight reduction on steal cooldown would be perfect.

At that point, I fell from my bed, and awakened.

So, if I understood well… let’s sacrifice Shadow Refuge to the whinners, turning it into a useless ability. That way, you placate the QQers, aaand… It doesn’t affect your gameplay in the slightest, since you already have all the perma-stealth you want on demand with the D/P set…

Yeah, nice try.

No, actually… it wasn’t…

The ULTIMATE and REAL Anti-Heal Trap…. Not some sissy condition.

Let’s see what happens when they introduce the ‘Anti-Heal Trap’. Oh man… That day will be glorious in the history of MMORPGs…

My money is on Warriors and Rangers…

Don’t forget to unlock ‘Caltrops’ ASAP. You’ll notice night & day difference when dealing with multiple opponents.

‘Dagger Storm’ should be also high priority for multiple targets, so save those skill points to unlock it right when it becomes available.

I’d say that trying to connect ‘10 backstabs’ in a row and failing all of them is enough punishment for the thief

Furthermore, if we are going to introduce ‘pathethic failures’ for thieves, let’s be ambitious and introduce them for all classes as well, like warrior rifles spontaneously exploding for overcharging them with kill-shots…. ranger pets turning on their masters for recieving excessive damage and suicide orders… elementalist’s gear degrading and breaking due to quick changes in temperature form coldness to heat…. undead minions out of necro’s control attacking their own team… Malfunctioning engineer turrets that heal enemies… an so on.

I the thief doesn’t touch you, you shouldn’t have any clue about his position.

He also cannot be in stealth indefinitely. He has given time window (3-4 seconds) to stab you, whether he succeeds or not. In fact, you only need to dodge at the end of that window, since he will use the first 2-3 seconds to position in your back. 10 backstabs in a row is a gross exaggeration… 3 maybe, in the best of cases, with all favorable circumstances.

It is assumed that the academy of thieves teaches them the basics of how to handle a dagger without tripping, farting or stabbing themselves with it.

The good news is that with the new anti-stealth fields, ‘Last Refuge’ will finally stop killing us.

Suck it up, Last refuge!!!!! haha!!!

Not really fond of the already ultra-limited selection of legendaries for thieves, so I’m saving up for future expansions.

If I find myself with a surplus of components, I may consider Bolt… The Dreamer is too girly for my taste… giant zippos not really attract me as a fighting weapon, and I’ll probably end up blowing my head after a prolonged session of Quip usage.

The difference is that most of those thieves are expressing their concerns in a correct, educate, and valid fashion, whereas you are only trolling and satisfying your personal vendetta against thieves.

Volrath.1473:

The magic of “Free to play”. I am playing Gw2 and Neverwinter… imagine that!

Yep, the magic… I find myself playing more and more Neverwinter and less and less GW2…

If it weren’t for the black (Neverwinter) vs white (GW2) background on the forums, I truly could not tell apart in which forum I am.

There are exactly… I mean EXACTLY the same threads on them:

“Thief is OP… Trickster rogue is OP… Nerf Stealth… Stealth is OP…. Rogues have too much damage…. Rogues have too much survivabiltiy… You only see rogues in PvP…. Nerf this class… Nerf… Nerf… Nerf…. Nerf…. Narf… Nurf… Nirf… Norf….”

I think it’s to prevent from killing yourself by activating the signet at very low HP… Thus, losing the precision bonus, which means losing the extra HP, which means instadown.

Bacon Please.8407:

you just got boon hate, stealth reverted back to 3 seconds, and all your signets reworked. You focus all on the bad

You mean like thief-haters focus all on the good?

bhagwad.4281:

Suralin.3947:

bhagwad.4281:

Suralin.3947:

bhagwad.4281:

Many thieves don’t “get” why people hate stealth. Hope this thought experiment will illustrate why.

Thought experiment: Remove stealth and change it to invulnerability instead. Who will complain?

1. Thieves often claim that they have no defense and so they require stealth to survive. So giving them invulnerability for the same duration will solve all their complaints right? Everything remains as before. Invulnerability is lost on dealing damage and provides a water tight defense

Question for thieves: Would you be willing to swap stealth for invulnerability?
Same question for non thieves: Would you prefer to fight an invulnerable thief rather than a stealthed thief:

Prediction: Thieves would prefer stealth over invulnerability. Non thieves would prefer to fight invulnerable thieves rather than stealthed vulnerable ones.

YES! Invulnerability for 3s would be awesome. Invulnerability for 10s for placing down SR? I place it down and me and 4 others are now invulnerable, dancing while you place useless AoE and then we prance down the yellow brick road…

What’s the point? You lose invul as soon as you make an attack. So you’re not doing any damage either. Nor are you capping anything.

Would like more responses from non thief players though…

The point is, you just went from “Hard to kill” thief to “Impossible to Kill” thief.

I’ll find a way don’t worry . I would prefer to fight invulnerable thieves as opposed to stealthed ones. That way I can keep an eye on them.

You are estimating your chances under the erroneous assumption that invulnerable thieves would play/fight like stealthed ones.

LF4M thiefs Fractal 5000+. No noobs. NO WARRIORS!!! NO GAURDIANS!!!

OMG!! revert again the 3s reveal revert!!!!

Auesis.7301:

… I would say Thief is the best underwater fighter in the whole game…

… I would say Thief is the best underwater TANK in the whole game…

A slight difference, but still a difference.

Underwater combat is, in general, pretty unpolished for thieves. Available utility and elite skills are pretty lacking… And combat skills are pretty weak or even work against you… like for example, Tow Line… which essentially works as a reversed Scorpion Wire… including the part in that you are CCed and unable to move or use skills after being pulled to your opponent.

But since people can spam ‘Shadow assault’ and become an almost useless invulnerable immobile twirl of mediocre single-target damage, everything seems fine.

At least until someone with float/sink arrives, then, the party is over…

I was kicked once in middle dungeon and the reason was that I was using Shortbow… Because you know, all thieves are expected to use dual daggers on all mobs or else they are not doing any significant damage at all. Go figure…

Some people are just stupid and/or ignorant, period… Or maybe is that WoW damaged their fragile, infantile brains beyond the point of recovery… Who knows…

In any case, if a group starts kicking classes because they need a special configuration, they are not precisely skilled to begin with, and it has an high % chance of failure on any non-controlled environment.

I fail to see how this is a exclusive thief abuse.

Also I fail to percieve that said ‘infestation’ of thieves… More than Eles, Guardians, or Warriors for example.

Seems to me a simple case of biased hate towards thieves, and that you percieve about them only what you want to percieve.

What they do matters to me, and to a lot of people actually. I cry when I have reasons to cry, the same as you will cry when they ‘touch’ YOUR playstyle or your combos.

I will adapt if they leave me no choice, of course, but the forums are a tool to express our concerns. And I’m not paying a susbscription, true, but I’m sure Anet have an interest in keeping a happy playerbase in order to buy their future expansions.

andyMak.6985:

4s reveal has not affected me at all i find i dont get time to pull out a full rotation at all when in WvW, i think i get lag and they’re not as close as i think they are as i will backstab and they will dodge or stun me or it will constantly say miss miss miss

i am glad they didn’t do the reveal without attacking, this makes me happy

thank you Anet

I’m glad that the revealed nerf didn’t affect you at all. In fact, all thieves already know that the revealed nerf didn’t affect WvsW at all, nor sPvP.

But that’s the whole frakin’ point.

Yes, thieves know that all PvPers are inmensely happy because the “nerf” DID NOTHING AT ALL to them. Yes, thieves know that PvPers will do anything at their hand to prevent a ‘revert’ or a ‘another fix’ that affects them… from expressing their happiness with the patch, to ridiculize post from people that show discontent.

However, you must understand that other people like to play PvE, you know, that thing that comprises the other 80% game’s content, and this patch actually had a very noticeable impact on their gameplay.

So, I’m glad for you, truly I am. But now, how about getting some tweaks here and there in order to make EVERY THIEF happy?

Arganthium.5638:

… All a thief would have to do is draw a warrior out from its banners, and then proceed to chop the warr to pieces.

Actually, all a thief should have to do now is to carry the warrior’s banners.

I’m sure they can.

Straegen.2938:

Another repeated thread on the subject.

Yep, like stealth threads.

Here, Anet, I will help you:

General

• Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack against human players or their pets/summons. It still remains at 3 seconds when coming out from attacking NPCs.

TAH DAH!!!!!