Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

I still like the idea of being able to unlock the currently unavailable weapons for your characters (with unique skills, of course), and think this could potentially be done in more interesting ways than simply equipping and learning the skills. (Profession specific weapons should stay the same.) Say for example a mesmer wants to learn to use a longbow. It’s possible that, perhaps, he could do so perhaps by beating a certain dungeon boss in the game, by completing an event chain leading to a boss that uses the long bow, … I don’t know, something creative. Of course, even the current ‘equip and use’ would be nice, but the potential to take it a little further for weapons not in your professions core group is there.

Would give them an excuse to add trainer npc into the game, perhaps with their own series of quests and tasks. Would help change up the maps a bit, and give us some new things to do. Said npcs could also eventually serve the double role of giving us the ability to train new weapon skill sets for our core weapons via more quests, tasks, etc when/if the dev’s develop more skills. Opens up some interesting options. Heck maybe the npc is some well known local hero that we have to go hunt up and ‘convince’ to train us to begin with.

Sytherek.7689:

Too much complexity drives non-forum players away. My wife, for example, has a lot going on in Real Life, and just doesn’t want to play a game that is more lifestyle than recreation.

Casuals are important, too.

Agreed. I’m a casual player myself, so I completely understand. If something seems so big and overwhelming, you get the immediate feeling that there is just ‘too much to do’ and therefore will never get it done, so why bother.

Malchior.5042:

Rin.1046:

I would mix them into one choice is as follows:
— Hero Recognition and Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions as well as unique skins, follwers and rewards, which would all be unlocked through progression in a title or faction.

As you gain rank in your chosen faction, or in a title, you unlock ways to increase your hero’s power (through diversification) and focus your hero’s identity (through skins and extra weapon options).

Sorry if this is technically 2 choices, but I feel they could be so closely linked they can easily be treated as one.

I’ve been stunned at Rin’s interpretation of the different features, and I must say, this is the approach I would like to see.

Hero Recognition based on Order choice, Player Housing, Guild Halls, etc…that could branch into further Diversification and Performance through new skills, events, challenges, etc…

So based on the above mix of Chris’ original categories, I’d say Hero Recognition/Sociopolitical development could set a solid framework for the different skills, events, and challenges that we’re all eager to see as well.

It’s an interesting perspective. Technically following his (her?) line of thinking, all 3 areas could be closely interlinked. One leading to another, back and forth, based on action and reaction:

A guild leader must lead her followers on an epic quest to liberate and then rebuild a guild hall; which in turn opens up a small instanced map where guild members could then not only build their guild hall, but individual housing. Which could then turn around an offer unique skins and rewards to show off.

Prob not the best or most detailed thought, but something that comes to mind, and presents options from all 3 categories in a single scenario. In some instances, it might be easier to develop things in tandem, where as in others its easier to build one set as the foundation, and then the additional options on top of it. Just depends on how they choose to develop.

VOLKON.1290:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VOLKON.1290:

-snip-

I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD

There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.

I’d rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed. If overwhelmed, you can always catch your breath and get caught up.

True, much rather ‘over’ than ‘under.’

lordkrall.7241:

Well you can’t claim that ArenaNet aren’t good at making people interested at least

The fact that this was tweeted would also suggest that we might have a big blogpost incoming with more information about the first half of this year.

I hope Colin gives us a new blog post sometime mid-January with things they are working towards in the next 6 months. A ‘state of development’ rather than “expectations” like the last 2 blog posts. This way no one gets grumpy if they miss their deadline, and I still get to find out what they are working on and what may come to us patient boys and girls in the future. (All good things to those who wait kinda thing)

VOLKON.1290:

Looks like they’ll be dragon out the secret for awhile yet.

That was just… so wrong…

VOLKON.1290:

-snip-

I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD

There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.

Vol.7601:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

A full expansion for free?

Edit: No srsly, now they have me curious. Meh, we’ll see what the year brings, it’s only just begun after all..

But the thing that many GW2 fail to realize is that we already get that. It’s called Living Story :P

It’s just that Living Story gives you new content every 2 weeks while an expansion you need to wait more than a year to get content all at once.

You know that, and I know that, but most people just don’t get it. It’s just too ‘different’ for their comfort zone I guess… I try to make no judgements.

I’m thinking we get to see some new maps brought back to life from the original GW. Maybe we will get to go to the Crystal Desert after all and deal with the dragon there ;S

Crystal Desert would be nice to see. Could also be the opening of some more of the Maguuma Jungle (wastes now?) and the confirmation of a jungle dragon and subsequent story. Technically either would be considered ‘expansion’ type content as it would progress the personal story (in theory).

It’s interesting that we all jump to the ‘new region and dragon’ theory though. Let’s try thinking outside the box, what else might be noteworthy enough to make them start chittering about it?

A full expansion for free?

Edit: No srsly, now they have me curious. Meh, we’ll see what the year brings, it’s only just begun after all..

Since you essentially broke the various suggestions into 3 broad categories, Chris, I’d probably have to say “Sociopolitical Diversification” would probably be my top interest as well as it would theoretically encompass things like guild halls, new quests, new zones, etc. Probably covers a lot of the things in my suggestions list.

Have to say though, that “Role Diversification” would be hot on the heels for second. As much as I like to look nice, I enjoy simply playing more, and more things to fiddle with would be awesome.

The addition of a single tier does not a treadmill make. It does set the precedent for a treadmill; however, they have assured us that they do not want to fall into that trap. That does not mean that there will ‘never’ be a new tier, but I think we can be reasonably assured that there won’t be one anytime soon. Still, there is hope after the VP CDI that they take our plight to heart and tell us that ascended is the plateau, and tiers stop there. We’ll see.

Yes, ascended gear takes no little amount of effort to obtain; however, it’s also not necessary. You can do WvW in exotics. You can do fractals with just the trinkets you presently have. Everything in PvE can be done in rares (I know, I’ve done it, several times).

I do agree that this tier goes against Colin’s statement that all players should easily have BiS gear by lvl 80; however, that’s because we asked for it. Maybe not you or me specifically, but when this game launched, it was loud and clear (especially on here) that another ‘harder’ tier of armor was desired. Exotics were “laughably easy” to get, which displeased a very large group of players. Obviously the voices crying ‘no more gear tiers’ were not loud enough, and were drowned out by the louder majority in this instance.

cesmode.4257:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky.

The fact that it required an official arenanet created forum thread under the umbrella power of the CDI, for them to have an “aha” moment and realize that we would like more ways to acquire ascended than crafting…angers me. No, change that..it just frustrates me. I am dumbfounded that they, again, could not see this coming. It seems that very little future planning goes on when they make decisions because something like this is a no brainer. Either they didn’t see it coming, or they knew it but didn’t give us alternatives because they thought they knew better. Either way, it leaves many frustrated players in their wake.

Same thing happened with the initial rollout of fractals and being player-gated. They said they quickly realized the error of their ways, that they had created a system that was player gated and were already discussing remediation solutions. Me, being a simple minded player, saw this as a problem as soon as the patch released, yet they as developers had months to work on it.

QA?

Edit: I tried to make sure that this response was not attacking any one person or persons(in order to avoid it being removed and getting infracted). But the point needs to be heard…it is curious that the developer has an “aha” moment after we point things out to them immediately after release of said content.

The devs see a broader picture than we do, and have certain goals that they want to game to achieve. Those things influence why they do certain things….like making the points character bound in WvW rather than account bound for example. To them, it made perfect sense. However, to us players it made no sense. Different perspectives and approaches is all. Just because they come to the conclusion after the fact that their initial view was wrong does not mean that they can just flip a switch and fix it. MMOs are intricate puzzles of code and even simple things should require rigorous integration testing.

While it true that two heads are better than one, it is also true that no team will ever be able to see all the perspectives. There will always be someone else that has one that they didn’t think up.

I don’t think it took they CDI to make them have their aha moment. I’m sure they’d had it, after the flood of posts and the vocalness of the players in game. However, the CDI did give them a localized, easily managed version of gripes and suggested fixes in addition to whatever their own thoughts had been, and gave them the very visible ability to respond to the players (which is also something we’ve hollered for). Essentially killed 2 birds with one stone.

Kevan.8912:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

These things have been brought up, and discussed to death in the CDI and Chris has acknowledged that we have been heard. The ball is in Anet’s court now. Let’s give them some time to hash it out and see what they decide.

i hope they’ll really think about what we’re saying here at ANet.
but it’s extremely unlikely they’ll go back to what used to be.
i’ll eagerly wait for any kind of news. but with no concrete hopes.
i really loved gw2. waited for it to be launched and read every single preview from known websites in 2012.
i never even thought about of whining on this forum…until everything i liked in gw2 was changed.
really really hope in any sign of change, and until then i won’t log in

Ascended isn’t going away. That much we know. However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky. I expect it to be superbly expensive in order to be on par with crafting cost, but I’m ok with that. We’ll see what they decide.

So, I’m coming rather late to the party, but’ I’d like to attempt to get my thoughts in here as well.

Rebuild HoM, or build something similar in our home instance (mentioned this in another thread previously)
- Show off our armors
- Show off our titles, maybe have trophies like GW1
- Show off legendary pieces
- Show off minis

More new in-game armor skins for collecting. Not just gloves, or shoulders, or a back piece, but whole sets. Things like Vabbian or FoW that are ‘prestige’ armor skins.

Additionally, some type of character wardrobe for easy storage of extra armor sets.

A PvE locker for skin unlocking. If I earned ‘Mad Memories’ and want to use it’s skin on 2 characters, I should have that option. Additionally, if I purchased an armor set from store, I should be able to use that skin on more than one character, just like we could with costumes in GW1.

More skills for diversity:
- Skill quests for new utility skills
- Signet of capture to gain new elites from special champs
- Unlockable new skill ‘sets’ for existing weapon thru special training or quests

Account bound dye. Some of us would be more willing to play ‘collector’ of the 400+ dye colors if these were account bound. It might also make crafting the unidentified a little more desirable. Additionally, it makes the dye system more alt friendly.

More titles!
- Race and Order reputation titles. Tie some skills to them, similar to GWEN.
- ‘Pact’ title track which allows us to become a member of all 3 orders instead of just 1
- “People know me” 2.0. Give title hunters a reason to hunt titles, and a way to show it off

Someone else mentioned the story mode and dungeon books from GW1. I like that idea and would like to see again. Dungeon books would fit, and could earn a chunk of a selected dungeon token type based on completion %. Maybe region books? (Someone else mentioned region achievements, which I thought were neat) Could be used to gain racial reputation, and maybe earn things like waypoint cost reduction.

Personality choices should mean something. How npc’s react to me, and some of my unique character phrases could be adjusted based on my character’s personality.

Hench or Heroes for instanced content. I know a lot of people don’t like them, but there many that do, and many that may never experience things like dungeons or fractals without them. These should be unlocked and acquired via quests like Nightfall. IE gain Rox as a usable hero after you complete her quest chain and mini mission to gain her entry into Ritlock’s Warband or some such.

Return hexes to the game, and hex removal. Would add another layer to the play. Perhaps make hexes stack duration to help deal with multiple same skill hex users in large scale fights.

Additional options for guild growth, more ways to obtain guild commendations/merits for smaller guilds, etc. I don’t have anything specific in mind, I’m open to ideas, but I’d just like to see more for guilds, to make them more worthwhile. I see too many people in game talk about how pointless it is to be in a guild because you get no specific benefits.

Return of ‘zaishen’ dailies
- Vigil bounty: Go find and kill ‘x’ champ
- Priory expedition: Help such and such with ‘x’ mini dungeon or JP
- Whisper’s mission: Complete ‘x’ path of ‘y’ dungeon
- Pact extermination: Track and kill ‘x’ world boss

I’ve been playing since the head start as well (was in the betas but we won’t count those) and I don’t have the issues the OP has. I have 4 characters to 80, 6 more all over the boars, and 2 more planned after I get those 6 done. I’m doing dungeons, I’m doing fractals, I AP hunt, I’m still working on leveling crafting to 500 (though I’m in no hurry), I’ve even jumped in and annoyed ppl in WvW. I’ve actually spent the last week and half on the game every day for 10+ hours (holiday vacation, it was so wonderful). Loving every minute of it.

Perhaps the difference between the OP and myself is the approach to the game play? I’ve done the world completion too (although not all on the same character) and I still enjoy re-exploring the zones. As I’ve pointed out, I do a lot of the things the OP has done, but they’ve not lost their ‘sparkle’ for me as yet.

Perhaps it is simple due to overplay and rushing? Don’t know honestly, but OP if you’re burnt out (and by everything you’ve said, that’s pretty much exactly what you are) then just take a break. It will all be here later when you feel refreshed and want to come back. Maybe just take a break until the feature update in a couple of months, then see if anything in it sparks your interest.

I still play GW1 on occasion, although I haven’t logged in for over a month now. Was thinking I might this weekend though. An old fashioned FoW run sounds fun. =)

I think I’m sitting at about 125g atm. Plus lots and lots of materials. I would probably have a heck of a lot more gold but anytime I get over 100 I tend to shuffle it over to my husband, who never seems to have much gold. (Think he’s back up to about 40g atm). I’ve easily mailed him 100g over the past month…30g just the other day for some crafting…

Only Ascended strikes me as any real ‘grind’ when it comes to gear in GW2, as it requires laurels, crafting, and special materials that you can’t even get unless you seek them out on a lvl 80. With some tweaking of acquisition (both to materials, and to overall ascended options), and to the general time gating, I think there might be less ‘grind pressure’ to this tier. These things have been brought up, and discussed to death in the CDI and Chris has acknowledged that we have been heard. The ball is in Anet’s court now. Let’s give them some time to hash it out and see what they decide.

Exotic has some minor grind to it, no matter what option to go with: crafting, dungeoning, temple, or straight out buying it off the auction house. However, most of that ‘grind’ is hidden in the normal play since we acquire the materials along the way as we level, and as such we don’t take note of it as much.

Outside of these two tiers, there really is no gear grind of note. Usable, decent armor seems to drop like rain for me when I play, and leveling the crafting is very easy so long as I gather as I go. Additionally, since events are a necessity of leveling, I wrack up karma as well, which gives me another means of acquiring gear as I level. The only reason I would fail to keep a character’s armor and weapons ‘up to date’ as I play would simply be due to laziness on my part.

zenleto.6179:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

zenleto.6179:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wait…. wasn’t one of the biggest complaints about fractals, previously, that it wasn’t account bound when it came to fractal level? (As such, making it not “alt friendly”)

Now it is….and it’s an issue?

kitten ed if they do, kitten ed it they don’t….

There’s a difference between “friendly for your alts” and “friendly to the player of alts”.

Stripping away individual character progression, which Anet is doing slowly but surely, might be making some players giddy with joy with all the account-bound stuff that’s been introduced but for people who want their characters to be completely separate from each other then its another nail.

I’m very aware of the difference. I did touch on it in a post further down..

Well, excuse me…

I was more putting it out there for general consumption than aiming it at you in particular. I should have put something in the post to that effect.

I wasn’t grumping at you. I was simply letting you know. =)

CoRtex.2157:

Draknar.5748:

Aeonblade.8709:

P2Bequal. That’s a new one for P2W I haven’t heard before. Whatever you would need to call it friend

Winning implies one person being better off than another…

or do you define winning differently than every other English speaking person?

If everyone ends up equal, then there are no winners.

You’re right, but it’s just stupid if you can give money to be equal, it basicly makes every legendary, or whatever, worthless. One could be playing for 6 months to get his legendary & someone else could buy it in 10min. Some people are just richer than other people in real life. It makes playing the game feel less rewarding, you’re better off not playing it, make some real life money and buy your stuff, because it’s faster.

I’m not going to argue that being able to purchase a legendary using cash → gems → gold devalues it. It does make it less prestigious to have one. Still doesn’t make that person any better than any other person though…

shiny! (sorry, channeling skritt there…)

fun

expansive

zenleto.6179:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wait…. wasn’t one of the biggest complaints about fractals, previously, that it wasn’t account bound when it came to fractal level? (As such, making it not “alt friendly”)

Now it is….and it’s an issue?

kitten ed if they do, kitten ed it they don’t….

There’s a difference between “friendly for your alts” and “friendly to the player of alts”.

Stripping away individual character progression, which Anet is doing slowly but surely, might be making some players giddy with joy with all the account-bound stuff that’s been introduced but for people who want their characters to be completely separate from each other then its another nail.

I’m very aware of the difference. I did touch on it in a post further down..

azizul.8469:

once you’re able to bring 7 heroes, it turns to a single player experience….

There has always been the ability to make it a single player experience, hench have been there since the dawn of the game. Now, yes heroes had better ai and customizable skill bars, but many people played and beat the game with hench long before heroes were granted to us in nightfall….

JustTrogdor.7892:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Well, the category is ‘expansion or update’ and it doesn’t specify that it has to be perm.

Either way I find it odd that the most highly acclaimed GW2 ‘update’ isn’t really GW2 but an 8bit side game. I’ll dig up my NES if I want to play those types of games.

shrug

All rewards are opinion based. You don’t necessarily have to agree. Its just like critics and movies. The critics give it a C, you go see it, like it, to you it gets an A.

Well, the category is ‘expansion or update’ and it doesn’t specify that it has to be perm.

I have to agree with that one. A lot of work went into the SAB patch(es), and is very deserving of recognition.

LHound.8964:

VOLKON.1290:

You win GW2 if you’re having fun. It’s that simple.

^ Exactly this.

rofl @ attachment

Delvoire.8930:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Sadly this beauty doesn’t have a name.

But my ears, she has made me laugh many times.

Lol. Your Old Man Asura looks like a creeper in these screengrabs haha.

For me it would be Rox, Braham and Job/Hobo/Ho-Ho-O-Tron.

I despise every Quaggan NPC.

Cooo but Quaggan likes you. Quaggan more than likes you….

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Heh, what pressure? I decided to take a more relaxed approach with this expansion and just stuck with lfr and whatever else I found fun. Haven’t felt pressured otherwise. I do feel pressure in this game though, mainly feeling forced to log in and rush through temporary content in order to experience it all and collect my AP.

I wanted to be able to play with my guild mates, so I had to ‘catch up.’ There was no way around playing that catch up, and they didn’t enjoy ‘coming down’ to my level because they’d already done it. It offered no challenge.

GW2 doesn’t create the same feeling for me. I don’t have to ‘catch up’ (in gear) to access content. Hell, if I want to run my sorry lvl 20 toon to Orr, I can…although it might result in some expensive repairs. If I want to take that lvl 20 through CM with a guild group, I can. Nothing is barred to me because my gear rating wasn’t ‘xyz’, like it was in WoW.

Additionally, going back to lower level areas can still be enjoyable, since we’re not one shoting everything. Admitted, downscaling does still need some work, more so now with the addition of ascended gear.

Aeonblade.8709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aeonblade.8709:

Also, yes GW2 has a pretty steep gear grind. I was able to gear myself out much faster in WoW than I am in GW2. But GW2 doesn’t pressure me nearly as much as WoW did to get the gear. Yea, it would be nice and really helpful to have full ascended, but at the end of the day, the game leaves it up to you, and doesn’t restrict you from anything but Fractals. GW2 is more casual friendly than almost any game out there, sans the ascended gear tier.

See, I had the exact opposite experience when it came to being geared in WoW. Additionally, there really weren’t as many options available for looks, at least to me. Several that I ended up interested in for transmuting purposes where no longer available or people did not bother doing that content. Complete and utter nightmare. I did definitely feel the gear pressure, which ruined my play. Always working for something that negates all the time I put in previously…because I couldn’t play the game otherwise… yeah, no thanks.

While GW2 does have the ascended bullkitten, I feel no pressure to obtain it. Oh, I;m sure I will eventually, but it’s not like I locked out of anything even if I never do. This I like immensely. Hopefully, they will take the suggestions and opinions in the CDI to heart and give us additional means of acquisition (outside of crafting, like via karma or dungeons), which will make a lot of people happy.

In all honesty, the only real reason it takes so little time to gear up in WoW now is because of the Looking for Raid feature. Works just like a dungeon queue, and get free epics. But the pressure to move beyond LFR into Heroic mode and get better loot got old fast. I think most people are tired of the treadmills. If it had been the WoW of Cata, sure it would have taken a lot longer.

Yeah, I didn’t make it past Cata… I made to Cata and threw in the towel.

Corpus Christi.2057:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Corpus Christi.2057:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Well, de facto, you are wrong. A pioneer of the theory behind “reasonable discussion” ( something we do here, on the forums – hence why I asked you whether you understood what the forums are about ), Aristotle, clearly states in “Rhetoric” that a prerequiste for a sound discussion is a statement that involves three elements: pathos, ethos and logos. Logos element is what you would call a “reasonable” or “evidencing” part.

Cheers

fo·rum noun \?fo?r-?m\
: a meeting at which a subject can be discussed

: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject

Yet, no where in the definition of a forum is “reasonable” discussion a given. It is assumed, but not technically required.

While it is true that nothing is solved without reasonable, rational conversation, that does not mean that all conversations are. Or that all participants will adhere to such. It is only an assumption on your part

Cheers

Well, you are wrong, again. In “Rhetoric”, Aristotle clearly dwells on the second part of the definition you have given us here – that of “discussing a matter/issue etc.”. And indeed, the requirement ( not an assumption ) is an argument including “logos”, i.e. reasonable part.

It is always a rewarding exercise to get to know the works of such great minds like that of Aristotle.

Best regards

Which is a work based on the art of persuasion. While it is true that it’s principles and theories can be applied to typical conversation, the average person is not going to be acquainted with such. To the average person, a typical conversation is not a form of art, as “Rhetoric” turns it into. Your point is moot, as we are not dancing this conversation based on the theories and principles of Aristotle. We are not having a philosophical debate here…

Most people would likely simply write you off as not worth their time, educated or otherwise, throwing around such things. You know what they say about people that drop names and use big words simply for the sake of using them…

This time you are right. Most people would likely simply write me off here as, just like you put it nicely, they are not acquainted with such things that go beyond their Harry Potter books or alikes. Therefore, I am extremely thankful for this conversation that you have pleased me with. You wouldn’t believe how difficult it is to find anyone here who would go beyond the usual “you are stupid, I know better” stuff.

Thanks again and enjoy your evening!

Not a problem =)

It’s fun to have an actual conversation with someone on occasion, and sates my need to argue (win, lose, or otherwise). Of course, the first time you dropped ‘Aristotle’ into the conversation, I laughed so hard I cried. You probably lost 90% of people right there.

Still, I’m going to go bother someone else for the time being… Still got 4 hours of work left…. ^.^;

Aeonblade.8709:

Also, yes GW2 has a pretty steep gear grind. I was able to gear myself out much faster in WoW than I am in GW2. But GW2 doesn’t pressure me nearly as much as WoW did to get the gear. Yea, it would be nice and really helpful to have full ascended, but at the end of the day, the game leaves it up to you, and doesn’t restrict you from anything but Fractals. GW2 is more casual friendly than almost any game out there, sans the ascended gear tier.

See, I had the exact opposite experience when it came to being geared in WoW. Additionally, there really weren’t as many options available for looks, at least to me. Several that I ended up interested in for transmuting purposes where no longer available or people did not bother doing that content. Complete and utter nightmare. I did definitely feel the gear pressure, which ruined my play. Always working for something that negates all the time I put in previously…because I couldn’t play the game otherwise… yeah, no thanks.

While GW2 does have the ascended bullkitten, I feel no pressure to obtain it. Oh, I;m sure I will eventually, but it’s not like I locked out of anything even if I never do. This I like immensely. Hopefully, they will take the suggestions and opinions in the CDI to heart and give us additional means of acquisition (outside of crafting, like via karma or dungeons), which will make a lot of people happy.

Betcha I’m on the whines list….

chuckle

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You pay for access and quality service. Maybe if everyone here in GW2 paid $5 or $10 a month, we’d get something better than Scarlet and temporary content.

chuckle

WoW players pay a sub and they got Pandaria…. you saw how well that ‘quality’ content went over. Like a lead brick… I don’t think I’ve heard anything good about that expansion.

Corpus Christi.2057:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Well, de facto, you are wrong. A pioneer of the theory behind “reasonable discussion” ( something we do here, on the forums – hence why I asked you whether you understood what the forums are about ), Aristotle, clearly states in “Rhetoric” that a prerequiste for a sound discussion is a statement that involves three elements: pathos, ethos and logos. Logos element is what you would call a “reasonable” or “evidencing” part.

Cheers

fo·rum noun \?fo?r-?m\
: a meeting at which a subject can be discussed

: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject

Yet, no where in the definition of a forum is “reasonable” discussion a given. It is assumed, but not technically required.

While it is true that nothing is solved without reasonable, rational conversation, that does not mean that all conversations are. Or that all participants will adhere to such. It is only an assumption on your part

Cheers

Well, you are wrong, again. In “Rhetoric”, Aristotle clearly dwells on the second part of the definition you have given us here – that of “discussing a matter/issue etc.”. And indeed, the requirement ( not an assumption ) is an argument including “logos”, i.e. reasonable part.

It is always a rewarding exercise to get to know the works of such great minds like that of Aristotle.

Best regards

Which is a work based on the art of persuasion. While it is true that it’s principles and theories can be applied to typical conversation, the average person is not going to be acquainted with such. To the average person, a typical conversation is not a form of art, as “Rhetoric” turns it into. Your point is moot, as we are not dancing this conversation based on the theories and principles of Aristotle. We are not having a philosophical debate here…

Most people would likely simply write you off as not worth their time, educated or otherwise, throwing around such things. You know what they say about people that drop names and use big words simply for the sake of using them…

Corpus Christi.2057:

Well, de facto, you are wrong. A pioneer of the theory behind “reasonable discussion” ( something we do here, on the forums – hence why I asked you whether you understood what the forums are about ), Aristotle, clearly states in “Rhetoric” that a prerequiste for a sound discussion is a statement that involves three elements: pathos, ethos and logos. Logos element is what you would call a “reasonable” or “evidencing” part.

Cheers

fo·rum noun \?fo?r-?m\
: a meeting at which a subject can be discussed

: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject

Yet, no where in the definition of a forum is “reasonable” discussion a given. It is assumed, but not technically required.

While it is true that nothing is solved without reasonable, rational conversation, that does not mean that all conversations are. Or that all participants will adhere to such. It is only an assumption on your part

Cheers

Estriella Faerie.4029:

It’s even less alt-friendly than it was before.
With the changes they made, with the required AR being much higher (as it can’t always be dodged with skill like before, and some instabilities just spam agony every 10s), you can’t come in fractals with an alt if he doesn’t have a full stuff with AR (ascended weapon or a few ascended armor pieces), which cost so much that most alts can’t have. So you can’t use alts in higher fractals anymore.

I wouldn’t say this is quite the same thing…

People wanted it so you could level fractals once, so any character could jump in at w/e max level had been built. We were given what was asked for.

The issue with not having alts geared is something else entirely. The suggestion of making agony resist account bound (similarly to MF) has been made ( I think), but I don’t think it should be as would cause simply that many more issues with the whole ascended debacle.

Romo.3709:

That depended on personal perspective. People complained about fractal level not being account bound because they didn’t want to waste time leveling their alts. I’ve had 3 toons at level 49, where I leveled each and every one of them by putting time and hard work into them. Now that was also taken away in favor of being on equal footing.
People that put work into multiple characters were not complaining about level not being account bound, people that had one toon at high level and didn’t feel like doing fractals all over again on different toons complained.

I suppose. But it still stands…. kitten ed it they do, kitten ed it they don’t.

There is no ‘right’ solution for this issue…

There are people like you, who want to build each character. It’s gives them a sense of progression and achievement. Each character is its own “individual”…

Then there are others that want it account bound because they want to be able to freely switch. “I want to play my mesmer today” “I want to play my necro today” and so on. To them, it is a hassle to progress each individually because they don’t view it the same way. Each character is merely a “costume”…

Considering the changes that were implemented, I am going to assume that those like you are the minority. Doesn’t make it fair, but what can Anet really do? They have to keep the majority happy for obvious reasons. Anet is a business after all.

Corpus Christi.2057:

There are two things: opinions and facts/pieces of evidence.

His opinion is based ( I can only hope so, but seeing his level of reasoning it is doubtful ) on some facts/pieces of evidence.
When I said he is wrong I meant that his opinion is not sustained with appropriate evidence, something that I have shown above.

Cheers

No one every said opinions had to be reasonable. … or even based in fact for that matter. One would hope that a person would have some general information on which to base their opinion; however it’s not technically a prerequisite. Which is why its an opinion, and not a statement of fact.

Wait…. wasn’t one of the biggest complaints about fractals, previously, that it wasn’t account bound when it came to fractal level? (As such, making it not “alt friendly”)

Now it is….and it’s an issue?

kitten ed if they do, kitten ed it they don’t….

Flash.6912:

Lanfear, I suggest we just ignored that guy Corpus Christi. I just explained everything in details how GW3 will beat GW2. Anymore argument would be meaningless. Everyone thinks they are right on internet nowaday.

Normally I would, but I just feel like being argumentative today, and since I’m ‘techincally’ working, I can’t log in and bait the troll in LA right now…

Corpus Christi.2057:

So far, he has been wrong,

Wrong, only by your views. By his views they are valid, and correct. Opinions, by their very nature are neither right or wrong, because they are personal. They are based on personal views and experiences. They can be changed, with additional knowledge, but they are not wrong. Thus why each opinion is different, because we are all different. Even those with opinions that agree, they are not identical.

Aeonblade.8709:

What you say is generally true, I’m not advocating ignoring your friends or ignoring reviews of the game. But personally, I have found it better to listen to these people, and the reviews, and then make my own decision going forward. Something that doesn’t work for even my best of friends may be the perfect game for me. I’ve had far too many reviews and people tell me something is awful and when I go to try it for myself, it turns it that it was much better than they were willing to admit.

I just advocate keeping an open mind on something till I try it myself. I have had better experiences making my own decisions of what my interests should be. But never discount your friends

chuckle

You’ll never see me argue against being open minded. Being open minded is what brought my husband and myself to GW1 to begin with.

Corpus Christi.2057:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Corpus Christi.2057:

My question, therefore, still remains. On what basis did the other guy claim “GW2 can only be beaten by GW3”?
I’m waiting.

Which begs the question… does it matter? Considering it’s only his opinion, why’s it matter?

You are posting your words on a “forum”. Do you know the definition of the word “forum”? It’s opinions all over the place. So no, it does not beg the question at all. I am, obviously, interested in what he meant by that statement.

Yes, I’m well aware of what a forum is, what it is for, and that there are opinions every where. You could be less insulting.

And yet if it did not matter, you wouldn’t be so perturbed by his lack of answer. For many people, other’s opinions do not matter, thus why I ask if it mattered to you, and in the same breath you answered the why – because you’re interested in his thoughts. Though, by your tone, not genuinely so. Nothing he can or would say would be sufficient, you’re only ‘interested’ so you can pick it apart to point out how he is wrong.

Aeonblade.8709:

So, heresay and rumors. Wait until you get your hands on a game before you start bashing it for it’s decisions. The decisions were made for a reason. And the reason they haven’t released videos detailing every little facet of the game is because it’s still a closed beta, like it or not.

Come on guys, we know better than to judge a book by it’s cover at this point. If we did that no one would of ever played WoW, GW2, or any MMO because of what “some dude that I know said this thing.”

Personally, I’m gonna withhold any kind of judgement till release day, both for WildStar and ESO. But to say GW2 has nothing to worry about from either of these games is silly. Elder Scrolls IP alone is worth more than everything ANet has ever done. Do not underestimate the power of 10s of millions of fans. Will ESO suck at release? Who knows. But make the judgement for yourself, and think for yourself when the time comes.

Taking the opinions of people you know personally into consideration may be relying on heresay, but generally it’s at least valid, first hand information.

It’s true that we shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but is that not what we do with every mmo? Do we not go out and seek out reviews, and videos, etc prior to trying any game to see what others are saying, in order to help us to determine whether or not we want to invest the funds to even bother trying it to begin with?

Corpus Christi.2057:

My question, therefore, still remains. On what basis did the other guy claim “GW2 can only be beaten by GW3”?
I’m waiting.

Which begs the question… does it matter? Considering it’s only his opinion, why’s it matter?

Corpus Christi.2057:

Flash.6912:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Flash.6912:

The only game that can beat GW2 is GW3.

In terms of what?

Number of active players? There are better games.

Number of awards they game got? There is a better game in 2013, and it’s called Blade&Soul.

Story? There is a better game – GW1.

Quality over quantity? GW2 is the example that puts quantity over quality, i.e. bi-weekly LS updates that are just terrible quality-wise.

So, please, do share your wisdom with us.

There is no way Blade & Soul better than GW2. Blade & Soul is hardcore cash shop pay to win style w/ super OP items.

Well, it’s a fact. A guy posted a link somewhere in the other thread. I haven’t played the game myself but from what I’ve seen, it indeed won loads of awards.
But again, please, explain what you mean by the statement “GW2 can be beaten only by GW3”. I’m still curious.

Winning loads of awards doesn’t really mean much, honestly. It’s all based on the personal preferences of the judges involved. It’s no different than a critic rating a movie or a restaurant.

Personally, I know I’ve been to several movies that critics gave poor ratings and felt they were great. Thoroughly enjoyed myself. The same for a few restaurants that were given poor reviews by local critics (and even family members).

It’s all personal opinion, and as such, will vary from person to person. You don’t like GW2, some of us do. To each their own.

Aeonblade.8709:

…What? I’m assuming you haven’t played the ESO beta… Anet needs to get their butts in overdrive before April.

I have not, but I know 3 people that have.

1 is a guildie that I’ve known for about 5 years…
2 others I work with irl

They were not impressed….

Valanga.5942:

But don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to whiteknight ESO in any way possible, just stating that selling the game for already death before release, when it will most likely be a hit at least on the first couple of months is definitely dumb.

Meh, this is common for any mmo. It happened for gw2, it happened for gw1, hell it happened for wow’s pandaria expansion. Having any type of “positive” outlook seems to be blasphemy.

On the other hand, i’m on Wildstar beta right now and i can tell that the game will probably starts slow and grow up in numbers.

I’ve looked at wildstar. its too cartoon like for me. i played wow for a little while and even that bothered me. maybe im too picky when it comes to graphics. but graphics and story are big things for me.

GW1 is still my baby when it comes to story. Love those cinematics…. Wish other MMOs did more of that sort of thing.. If i wanted to read walls of text, I’d just go read a kitten book.

This game isn’t about dungeons though. It’s about being in the open world. Playing together is just as encouraged:
- no grouping required to play together, you and your 8 friends can do everything together. no leaving the odd-man out because you have too many for the allotted party size
- no kill stealing
- no node stealing
- jump in at will events

Playing together is still straight forward… you run around and do things together. However, in the open world there is no necessarily single correct way to go about the play. Unlike in a dungeon where there is only a single path that must happen in a linear fashion.

There is much less in the way of ‘hand holding’ in this game. Nothing that says ‘go here, do this. now do this. now go here’ in any hard fashion, which bothers a lot of people.

Depends on where you bought it from and how you bought. If you purchased the box, some stores have a price guarantee, that if you find it at a lower cost within a set amount of time, they’ll match it and give you the difference back. Even some online purchases will do this… All you can do it check

Valanga.5942:

nexxe.7081:

ESO is terrible. Believe me. That game will crash harder than Swtor did.

Except is not. The game definitely need at least one more year of working on before being ready to launch… However, GW2 too launched way before it was ready (it still isn’t, lol.), so i don’t see why ESO should go worse than GW2.
Besides, ESO will sell a lot of copies because of the name, lots of people will buy it without even thinking twice because it’s the new Elder Scrolls… If it will manage to hold the people in game, that’s another story… But i’m sure not even the whitest of the white knigts actually believe that 3.5 milions of GW2 buyers are still playing the game, right?

Yes, it will probably sell a lot of copies because of the name. Doesn’t mean it will retain those people though. Only time will tell.

Still, that is not first time I have heard such a statement (that eso is terrible), and from people that were in the betas none the less. I had actually considered giving ESO a try myself (the previews looked gorgeous), but my guildie (who I swear plays any game he can get his hands on) was telling me about it. He was in the beta, and since he knows what I tend to enjoy playing, he was telling me to give it a pass. Its not what it’s hyped to be, which bummed me out.