Guild Wars 2

Grimreaper.5370:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Grimreaper.5370:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.

The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.

As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.

And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.

I don’t really play a Thief but I’m under the impression the only way to remove a blind is with withdraw (if its traited) to remove 1 condition, and hope the blind was the condition removed. A thief isn’t going to want to attack you from stealth if they are blinded. Thieves only remove damaging conditions now with their stealth condition removal. Perhaps if withdraw removed 2 conditions when traited, blinding ashes wouldn’t be such an issue for thieves.

They lose out boonstrip on steal if they trait for withdraw which is an issue versus eles. So sadly, it still wouldn’t work.

Laraley.7695:

Wow, you guys amaze me.

First of all, I didn’t suggest the nerf because I lost to a stone heart ele, but simply because I think it’s too strong. Apparently that’s just way too difficult for you to understand. I wasn’t crying about anything, I was simply stating my opinion. You are the ones insulting me for it. I’m sorry but I don’t think that swaping to earth is a skilled play. With stone heart, on top of that protection and if you position yourself well also with Geomancer’s defense and there you go, you’ll be taking very little damage. All that comes from just pressing one button and moving yourself. The reason this trait is partially passive is the fact every average ele will learn the basic rotations and then perform them, going to earth included. Now this average ele will have 33% damage reduction and no critical hits incoming just because he managed to swap to earth. Great job, so skilled. While he might not getting bursted down, there most likely will be damage prevented without him even realizing it.

Second of all, I’m not crying about anything, I’m simply stating what I think. I haven’t figured out it’s such an issue for people like you, I apologize. I suggest no reading what I say if it makes you so mad.

Third of all, I didn’t do any mistake. That’s just you assuming I had to lose to a d/d ele with Stone heart to think it’s too strong. Well, newsflash. People have different opinions, you might as well accept that. No one owned me, now it might be a shocking for you, but I actually made my own opinion. I understand that’s very difficult concept for you to understand, but yeah it happens, sorry.

@Lettuce: It think it’s quite hilarious you call yourself a pro ele, when you snaped on me saying I do not know how a trait works when in fact it was you not knowing how it works currently, arguing and saying you even tested it and still didn’t know it’s bugged. Made my day.

After all, there’s not a point in talking to any of you. All you do is calling me skilless without having any reason to do, just because my opinion differs from you, assuming things without even thinking why there was some things said. Well, enjoy doing that, I’m going to keep my opnion, I’m entitled to it.

I’ll gladly duel you. Do you accept?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Grimreaper.5370:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.

The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.

As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.

And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.

Shadow’s embrace got nerfed. It no longer removes blinds. So let’s say, a thief decides to steal + backstab, and he gets blinded, the backstab misses so does the mug because of the blind proc from BA and flame legion. So when mug misses, he can’t leech health. Or let’s say a thief pops basil venom then goes in stealth but ele blinds him, he has to either wait out the long blind, allowing the ele to regain cooldowns…or miss a basil proc intentionally to remove blinds. Thieves don’t have countless ways to deal with blind. They have 2. That’s to intentionally hit them and miss or wait it out. Again, this is from a high level pvp standpoint. So keep that in mind as you’re attempting to argue with me and grim. K? K.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine. And who said I was defending eles? Did I or did I not suggest a couple nerfs and did I not use my ranger as an example to how OP ele is and how OP blinding ashes was? I fought that same thief on his ele on my ranger and he didn’t fight back for the full 5 minutes while in blinding ashes…And I couldn’t kill him as a zerk ranger. My dps wasn’t even enough. The perma protection rotations and the blinds and the burns. Hell, even when he did nothing, he forced me to heal a couple times because he got me to HALF HP DOING NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.

At this point, I just feel like you’re just someone who wants to argue/complain for the sake of arguing. You suggest no constructive feedbacks that is based on logic and skilled gameplay. You seem like an average amateur ele that only understands how the trait works but not how to play one properly. A know it all that knows nothing. Ironic, no? And you keep glancing over what grim and I are saying. Here’s an idea.

READ WHAT WE ACTUALLY SAY and stop saying we’re defending our classes. We’re actually discussing a couple ways to nerf eles without nerfing it into oblivion which is what you’re trying to do right now with your baseless assumptions and criticisms which is clearly evident from your suggestion to nerf stone heart which is RARELY USED. Leave the discussion to the pro eles, please, k? K.

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Laraley.7695:

Roxanne.6140:

I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on

Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.

Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.

I’m not talking about the amulet at all.

“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”

Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?

Ok, look. Celestial d/d ele was good before the patch, survability was great, damage was okay. By the buffs ele got, celestial ele gained the most. Now it has free EA, whole earth line with powerful traits or fire line with crazy damage. Both survability and damage of the specs got a nice boost. If you look at fresh air, it didn’t really gain that much, condi ele actually saw some nerfs. So out of all these specs cele ele got the most out of it.

Bolded the quote from you. You complained about the lack of having EA in the build (having to choose between one of them)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/No-more-Elemental-Attunement-Evasive-Arcana/first

That’s you complaining about it. Now you get it, you complain about it? You’re focused on the wrong things. You want to nerf cele ammy (yes, you complained about it as grimreaper pointed out). Have you actually tried pvping or dueling on marauders amulet? The traitlines no longer give healing power, so playing a zerk ele has pretty much no sustain, especially in 1 v 2. You’ll just get instantly bursted by a good player. Celestial is pretty much our only option at this point with all of the power creep, so no…Leave the amulet alone. Burning needs to be scaled down per stack. Right now the amount is just simply too high especially with the might stacking capabilities of eles. And I saw your nerf suggestions. It was kittened as hell.

Stone heart promotes passive play? You have to actively time when to go into earth and then burst accordingly. See a stealthed mirror blade headed towards you which means an incoming shatter…swap to earth. No good ele will just sit in earth and a GOOD ELE would actively time it. So it would reward the ele who times it optimally over an ele who just rotates randomly and not realizing some of the bursts he’s blocking…It’s an active defensive trait…Leave it as it is. As for diamond skin, I do agree with warlord sikari on it (ronpierce) about the suggested changes. Blinding ashes IS the true definition of passive play/defense…So at least you got that right…They need to raise the icd to 10 secs or 12. Right now, it really screws with thieves. It’s a 100% hard counter assuming both players are equally skilled especially if the ele uses flame legion runes. I also tested with my guildie yesterday who’s actually another skilled ele…I got on my ranger and I had a theory that even with a zerker amulet (me using it), I wouldn’t even be able to kill him with him not even fighting back. My theory was correct. I spent 5 minutes trying to get him to 0 health while he forced me to heal a a bunch of times because of the blinding ashes + burn procs. He just walked around healing and rotating protection. So I think soothing ice needs to be adjusted a bit. As of now, it’s a perma protection build. So even if I out played him on ranger, I wouldn’t be able to kill him anyways if he just rotated properly. It’s the traits that needs the rework. And you’re focusing on the wrong ones. Stone heart is passive? PUHLEASE. Soothing ice, blinding ashes, and diamond skin are the top 3 for me that needs some adjustments along with burning damage. Then I think ele will be in the right spot. And if they trait into earth, their main role is to bunker. So you can’t complain if they bunker properly because that’s intended (assuming they make the adjustments as suggested). If they trait into fire, they can do a bit more of a burst while sacrificing some survivability. So I think that fits the role perfectly for each traitline.

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Grimreaper.5370:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

PistolWhip.2697:

Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.

I’m up for the cage.

As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.

I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.

Re read the 150 power trait. K? K. You’re a funny guy. Cried about both EA’s being moved to GM, did not see the possibility of how OP ele would be if we were allowed to trait into 3 lines…(When I called it way back then…) and bam…You’re asking for a nerf. Oh how quickly you flip flop.

Lol @ him complaining about 150 power minor, not even understanding how it works.

Uhh, the minor says “Gain 150 Power while in Fire Attunement.”
Am I missing something? This trait doesn’t work like Soothing Mist AFAIK, so it’s not supposed to actually carry over.

It’s bugged atm. You gain 150 in each + 150 in fire. Just people who do not know how the trait works currently telling others they have no clue, quite normal on forums.

No it doesn’t work like that. It’s in fire only. Swap out of fire, your power goes down 150.

Laraley.7695:

PistolWhip.2697:

Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.

I’m up for the cage.

As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.

I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.

Re read the 150 power trait. K? K. You’re a funny guy. Cried about both EA’s being moved to GM, did not see the possibility of how OP ele would be if we were allowed to trait into 3 lines…(When I called it way back then…) and bam…You’re asking for a nerf. Oh how quickly you flip flop.

Yup Haru, I’m getting the same stuff right now. There goes our roaming plan :<.

Amonatory.2453:

Lettuce.2945:

Amonatory.2453:

Honestly, I think this was a terrible change. Sure it helps thieves who could never tell when their steal was on CD, but in all seriousness am I the only one who finds it annoying to have to bind another key after playing the class for so long just so i can use my stolen ability? This is literally the only thing I don’t like about the patch and thieves. Every person that ive talked to has said its an annoyance/nuisance, like id absolutely love for a revert lmao.

Thanks for the laugh. 10/10 would read again.

Man, you must be on these forums everyday. I will make another if you truly enjoyed this bud.

Please do. It’s a good laugh. Last person I expected to hear that “struggles” with 1 more button on a thief.

BFMV.3198:

Also just realized blind does not get removed either.

Look Arenanet, you had no reason to make shadow’s embrace as crap as it is now. Right now, all it takes is an immobilize or a blind and we have no way to remove apart from shadowstep if we run P/D or D/D.

Unless we use withdraw and the new trait, but I like Hide in Shadows.

Please revert this

No way to remove a blind? Just intentionally hit someone so the blind goes away? Rofl.

AegisRunestone.8672:

Yes, I play a thief. I have a level 80 dagger/dagger and shortbow thief. We got buffed and nerfed. More nerfed than buffed IMO. But going nuts over it isn’t going to solve anything, especially since the patch is a day old.

Edit: I forgot to mention… did you look at Haste? Remember when it took away all endurance when used, and made endurance regen at 50%? Yeah, it doesn’t do that anymore. Haste gives 6 secs of quickness, 6 secs of fury, and it breaks stun. We have gotten buffs, I mentioned a couple in the first post.

Regardless, as I stated before, I do think we got nerfed more than buffed.

Pretty sure he was referring to the fact that panic strikes has been around for quite some time. It’s nothing new.

Amonatory.2453:

Honestly, I think this was a terrible change. Sure it helps thieves who could never tell when their steal was on CD, but in all seriousness am I the only one who finds it annoying to have to bind another key after playing the class for so long just so i can use my stolen ability? This is literally the only thing I don’t like about the patch and thieves. Every person that ive talked to has said its an annoyance/nuisance, like id absolutely love for a revert lmao.

Thanks for the laugh. 10/10 would read again.

That LoS spot when your steal had invalid path was nice. takes note for future reference/use

Raif.9507:

Lettuce.2945:

The amount of QQ’ing is just simply hilarious. Here’s an idea. Maybe don’t take my word for it. But let’s ACTUALLY WAIT until the patch hits before crying about “nerfs”. You realize every profession’s reveal so far has gotten one extra F skill like mesmer f5, warrior f2…etc. Maybe we’ll actually get a weapon swap option or another attunement type. Just stop crying about stupid kitten. As I’ve said many times in other threads, I’ve been messing around with not using elemental attunement trait to stimulate what it would be like (even though we’re getting another full trait line….) and I have to say…I do just fine. I actually win 90-95% of my duels still as ZERKER ele. Sounds like a l2p issue to me if you can’t even simply wait for the patch to hit and adapt.

That’s the worst logic ever. There are problems one can easily see with the trait choices they devs have made right now. There are significant nerfs to the current playstyles, current damage and survivability. Why “wait” for the patch when we can avert having to wait a few months for them to “fix” the stuff they broke by bringing it to their attention NOW. And your L2P argument is just stupid and doesn’t add anything to the discussion. Either put forward your build, your opponents, your information or don’t include that argument. Also, just because you win NOW means nothing due to the massive trait overhauals the lines will see that will make most current builds less powerful and less useful all the while increasing the power and utility of other classes builds. The trait powercreep is real in other classes, while we are regressing. And unless Tempest includes some massive mobility (it probably won’t due to not wanting to compete with thieves), massive damage (most likely won’t because it’s melee so will have to include blocks or damage reductions so we can just live) then yes. We will complain, we will put forth information on how the Karl McClain (spelling, sorry) is gimping the class with making certain things choices all the while ripping from the class necessary defenses and power boosts in the name of “build diversity” but just makes Arcana or Water more mandatory. This isn’t the first time this has happened, every time they try to make Arcana or Water less mandatory, it just ends up becoming more mandatory.

Xillllix.3485:

Give me one example where they listened to elementalist-players feedback about the elementalist.

All they listen to is other classes complaining about the ele and then nerf us down.

You could buff the staff auto-attack projectile speed by 200% and it still wouldn’t be OP. What about water 1 auto-attack on staff, they sure made certain nobody would ever use that.

But but but… it heals! /sarcasm

I would love other reasons to go into anything but Arcana, however with the proposed changes to traits, there IS no compelling reason to go anywhere else. The answer to removing the dependence of elementalists on Arcana and Water is not to make these terrible, but to make the other lines better.

I stand by making Elemental Attunement baseline as a solo trait with the GM being AoE and reworking traits that are easily overwritten like One with Air and Zephyrs Speed. If Air had a trait that did something like on crit gain a shield equal to a % of the damage done I would definitely think of speccing into Air. As it is now, with all the damage being ripped from Air, with Fresh Air becoming much weaker and really disliking the idea of getting hit as a burst ele to proc shocking aura… I think I’ll pass.

Also, since the instant damage is an issue, why not add a slight cast time to the lightning strike from Air Scepter 2 and making it cast from the player? Style Sorcerer Lightning Bolt from SW:TOR? Gives it a casting animation so that it can be dodged.

Try actually dueling without elemental attunement on a zerker amulet running standard 00266. It really IS A L2P issue. As for your comment, “If i win now, it doesn’t change with patch”. Yes it does, I get way more tankier in patch. If you honestly can’t see that now, then ele really isn’t the class for you.

The amount of QQ’ing is just simply hilarious. Here’s an idea. Maybe don’t take my word for it. But let’s ACTUALLY WAIT until the patch hits before crying about “nerfs”. You realize every profession’s reveal so far has gotten one extra F skill like mesmer f5, warrior f2…etc. Maybe we’ll actually get a weapon swap option or another attunement type. Just stop crying about stupid kitten. As I’ve said many times in other threads, I’ve been messing around with not using elemental attunement trait to stimulate what it would be like (even though we’re getting another full trait line….) and I have to say…I do just fine. I actually win 90-95% of my duels still as ZERKER ele. Sounds like a l2p issue to me if you can’t even simply wait for the patch to hit and adapt.

I’ve been dueling without elemental attunement trait as zerker ele as an experiment and I can tell you this, I do fine. I win 95% of my duels still. Sure, I lost just because I didn’t have it or was a glassy spec. But here’s the thing, I reminded myself about the 600 range dmg reduction trait…It’ll make it easier. Not to mention the soothing ice trait that gives frost aura (If the icd is somewhat reasonable, it’s fair) and such. I seriously think you guys should start practicing pvping without the trait and get the feel for it now so when the patch hits, you won’t be so reliant on it. Sure, elemental contingency is like a bad rng version of EAT but hey, it has a 10s icd and you can somewhat figure out a pattern with it to the point where you can start controlling which random buffs you get from the rotations.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Lolololololol. My condi cleanses will actually be way better than ever. If you truly cannot see how strong the builds will be, then maybe ele isn’t for you. Me and a few guildies already can see how strong the new 00666 ele will be. I’m sorry, but it might be best for you to be one of those folks that waits until the patch hits and hop on the new meta train when someone figures it out for you and posts a build on metabattle.

Strongly recommend you stop whining until the patch actually hits.

Velimere.7685:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

I’ll enjoy laughing at you guys for not realizing how to compensate for the choice between elemental attunement and evasive arcana and the “nerf” to boon duration. Like I said, I already have 2 builds ready that will be crazy strong. Why should I reward people who can’t think for themselves? It amuses me to see the amount of QQ’s instead of oh…Actually thinking?

oEnvy.3064:

eatkimchi.7316:

oEnvy.3064:

Resilience of Shadows
So yeah. That old thing that gave you might in stealth is gone, but it has been replaced by this. Take 50% less damage in stealth do I need to explain how OP that is?

This needs to be changed back to being a grandmaster major trait or nerf the %. Currently running it in WvW havoc/roaming and its just way better than shadow rejuv. It also applies to allies and stacks with protection(lol?) making it VERY strong in organized groups.
Having SA thieves with resilience + rejuv is almost game breaking and if these changes go through, expect the QQ posts about SA thieves to go up.

100% this. Honestly I think the whole idea of 60606 thieves to be OP. Considering you don’t lose offensive stats anymore, critical strikes is useless. So thieves in pvp won’t really get punished for running SA anymore. Also yeah, Shadow Rejuv + Resilience is 100% broken. SA was already OP.

Since you can go 60066 thief acro…Here’s an idea since they somewhat nerfed endurance regen on dodge…You can actually use rune of the adventure instead of the standard strength or pack runes. It’s actually a power/condi rune as well. And you use signet of agility anyways and fury from steal. Your crit rate will still be fine, no need for pack rune fury as much.

Every time you heal, you get 100% endurance regen and also…Don’t forget improv has a chance to recharge withdraw. I think that will be the new meta, rune of adventure panic acro thief.

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

You guys gotta be joking if you think this nerfs d/d or d/f eles. I main an ele, and I can tell you this, I’m excited for it. I already have a couple builds in mind.

Zephyra.4709:

Immortal.3647:

i have to puke when i see your skillbar

It’s funny watching others puke when I puke on them with my cancer turrets. Oh my the salty orphan tears do flow, indeed.

That awkward moment when your tears start flowing after the turret nerf.

All the turret engineers trying to defend their classes by calling others bad for not knowing how to deal with them. And asking for a reason. Here, let me tell you a reason. On one hand, you have a completely bad player with relatively no pvp skills playing a turret engineer because it’s a crutch/carry defending a point…Then on the other hand, you have a high skilled player in pvp, any profession/class that isn’t stupid like a turret engineer or shout bow….They go to said point with the turret engineer…Most likely, they’re just going to ignore that turret engineer and focus on capping the other 2 points.

Why?

Because, no matter how much the second player outclasses the turret engineer in terms of skill…It’s STILL GOING TO TAKE A FREAKING LONG TIME TO KILL SAID ENGINEER. You literally need 2-3 people to quickly kill the turret engineer which takes away from the team capping/defending the other points. Why should a build reward bad players? No. This is a well deserved nerf.

Now make no mistakes, I don’t mind 1 v 1ing a turret engineer but it just takes too long and it’s just annoying. No class should ever be this annoying.

All the bad players coming here to defend Turret engis. Guess we know who relies on them and who doesn’t.

Just another rng element anet decided to invis patch.

Thaddeus.4891:

It’s not dumb guys. Before the patch if you were to use a teleport to a place where you can’t teleport, then your skill would enter in cooldown, but you would stay in place.

Now if you can’t teleport you don’t waste your skill for nothing.

Please, with all due respect, refrain from posting until you’ve read the entire post in its entirety. I’m specifically talking about “Target too close” when you’re literally a few inches away from the target. It’s not a place “where you can’t teleport”. It’s quite very well in the visual pathway…

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

I’ve seen this on other target teleport skills too; often when I’m teleporting down from above them.

I was checking patch notes in the last 3 patches. The only thing that was mentioned was a change in a valid pathway. Which makes sense to a certain degree, like, not going through walls and such. But when I’m right next to the player and I can’t steal? What the kitten? (I actually typed kitten). Makes zero sense at all.

Since the patch about a week ago, has anyone noticed “Target too close” for steal? Is this even intended? If so…why? It’s dumb. Like…Literally…Does it matter? It makes sense if they’re too far, but too close? It can really screw with some of the combos.

My guild went roaming a couple days ago. Just 6 of us. We were on FABL. We went to north camp. Guess what we found there? 3 superior AC’s, 4 ballistas, and 2 normal AC’s, upgraded camp, and about 20 people.

Guess what happened? You lost the camp against 6 people without a single one of us dying after about 30 minutes of fighting. Can you spell

O U T P L A Y E D.

Personally I don’t care about sieges. It’s just even funnier if you get wiped like I mentioned above. Because honestly…That’s pretty sad if you can’t kill a single member of 6 people with 20 people + upgraded camp + all those sieges and we haven’t even used one siege at all. I like sieges because it makes people overconfident hence their downfall. At the end of the day, skillful and coordinated players will always trump sieges and mindless blobs.

Packit.2953:

FA run’s fat which is why they are destroying tier 2. Yaks bend is a siegehumping server, SoS could use more guilds to balance out tier 2.

Yaks is a siegehumping server? My guild went roaming a couple days ago. Just 6 of us. We were on FABL. We went to north camp. Guess what we found there? 3 superior AC’s, 4 ballistas, and 2 normal AC’s, upgraded camp, and about 20 people.

Guess what happened? You lost the camp against 6 people without a single one of us dying after about 30 minutes of fighting. Can you spell

O U T P L A Y E D.

Mal.1670:

I was in FEAR’s 1v1 arena last night watching a duel in mid when all of a sudden this thief just randomly starts attacking me. No message, no bow, nothing. I run away and tell him to stop but this idiot doesn’t get it. When I respawned he did the same thing over and over again. I told the arena admin about it but he didn’t do anything, and no one stepped in to take him down like people usually do for trolls. Wth? Eventually he left, but not even five minutes later this zerk mesmer starts doing the same freaking thing. He even went to kill me when I was dueling someone else. I even killed him a few times but he just got angrier which is just hilariously sad.

Jesus Christ what the hell is wrong with these kids? Do the rest of you have to put up with this kitten every time you’re in a 1v1 custom arena? I thought people who played this game were old enough to comprehend how it works but apparently not. This crap is absolutely ridiculous. What’s the point of trying to mess around in custom pvp if people don’t even man up and deal with these idiot trolls?

I giggled. The reason why I giggled? Ok, I’m one of the admins of the FEAR arena. I just added your name to my friends list and lo and behold…I got your char’s name. Obviously I can’t post your char’s name on forums but…Want to know what’s so funny? I remembered you.

I’ve been watching you in spectate for about 30 minutes or so. Whenever someone was dueling, and they were about to die, you would go in refuge then proceed over to finish the loser off then run off like nothing happened. You also tried to gank people in their duels from stealth. You’re just one of those trolls that cries “troll” when you got what you deserved for trolling in the first place. So I just told the owner to ban you which was rightfully done. Now, I apologize that you’re kitten about it. Maybe this’ll serve as a lesson to not troll arenas especially when admins/owner is watching you. That’s why I didn’t do anything about it. Because you were THE TROLL.

Now stop trying to discredit the FEAR arena. Everyone knows already that if there’s a couple FEAR members in there, we always kill the trolls or ban them if the owner’s on. Nice try, move on.

“Ele or Thief” = thread title. Post question “Ele or Mesmer”. Surely you understand my slight confusion. But I highly recommend playing both equally and play a zerker version of both builds. Then when you swap to a more bunkerish build on ele, it drastically improves your survivability because you better understand the positioning and rotations (because you learned how to survive on a zerker set up). I wouldn’t recommend going the meta cele ele to start. You can run the meta traits but go zerk ammy for a while.

I disagree with OP. I enjoy outnumbered fights with my 3-4 man roaming comp. We usually beat groups of 8-15’s depending on how bad they are. Granted, we have an OP roaming composition but we’re designed for outnumbered situations. If being outnumbered is a constant issue for you, then may I suggest changing builds or professions with your group to accommodate for that said situation?

Ballads.2509:

Lettuce.2945:

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bdm-WvaMtI

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

This is a joke right? Video shows you 3 man vrs 6-10 of the worst players ever. Both their play and WvW ranks show this must be one of the first times they have played wvw. There are almost no complaints of the stab changes in small settings like this but rather the complaints are when both sides has 20+.
Irrelevant video is irrelevant.

Thanks for proving that you didn’t even watch vid. “Video shows you 3 man vs 6-10 of worse players ever”.

It’s 6 v 20. :P I believe I specifically said that as well. Obvious troll is obvious troll. And kasteros…Stay a pve hero. Or back up those words and duel any one of us in our guild. You’ll get rekt 100-0 by every single one of us.

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lettuce.2945:

After seeing the OP complain about literally every single thing in dueling servers from thieves to “vanishing” pin downs when he shoots it into Elementalist swirling winds, not realizing it destroys projectiles…To lag and “living in the middle of nowhere”…I had a strong feeling I would see a post by this same said person complaining on forums…

Lo and behold! Boy, was I right…

Can you go a day without complaining about something? Seriously, you’re already garnering a reputation on dueling servers as “The complainer”. You literally have an excuse every duel. Just say “GF” and move onto the next one. God.

Oh look, it’s the guy who lies about what happened!

There were no winds, no dodges, no blocks, the Pin Down fired directly into the ground TWICE in a row the second fight. Oh, and after I won the first fight they said “I’ll play for real now” and “I haven’t played Ele in six months.” Yes, the guy who QQ’d about “excuses” literally started off with excuses.

Oh they also spam messaged me. They. Sent. Me. Messages. With. One. Word. Per. PM. Till. I. Got. Annoyed. Of. The. Beeping, and eventually blocked him.

Also, it’s pretty well known in those servers that “Old Man Burr” is a persona. Most find it pretty funny. A group of us are refining our builds or simply enjoy playing bad builds because it’s funny, Meanwhile you get mad about EVERYTHING, gank, and then you do the very thing you complain about.

Anyways, I’m not here to throw mud, so just like in game, I’ll be ignoring you now.

You lost three times in a row to a zerker ele after I said I’ll play for real. You started to QQ about “vanishing” pin downs, how I was cele when I was zerker…Etc. You always complain about every thing in every duel. Even when I’m not dueling you, I’ve seen you complain to everyone every time you lose a duel. It’s always some kind of excuse. And I just mentioned that I didn’t play ele for 6 months to add salt to your wound. It wasn’t a form of QQ. I was insulting you for losing to a zerker ele that hasn’t played on it in 6 months. Let that sink in.

No, seriously, learn how to say gf even after you lose and do another duel. Instead of writing paragraphs about why you lost. You seem to have this notion that “bugs” only happens to you and you only. You talked kitten to my guildie for beating you on his thief and how he was a something to do with a woman’s sensitive area…Then he hopped on his warrior and dueled you mirror spec…What happened? You lost 3 times in a row. You got humbled real quick.

And you blocked me after like 20 minutes of talking to me about why you lost without me responding. When you finally realized I wasn’t responding to you because I thought it was immature…You said “Ok, I’m done with you. Blocked”. As if I was even talking to you L O L. You went on a monologue for 20 minutes like an idiot then tell me you’re done with me? Ok kiddo. Ok.

After seeing the OP complain about literally every single thing in dueling servers from thieves to “vanishing” pin downs when he shoots it into Elementalist swirling winds, not realizing it destroys projectiles…To lag and “living in the middle of nowhere”…I had a strong feeling I would see a post by this same said person complaining on forums…

Lo and behold! Boy, was I right…

Can you go a day without complaining about something? Seriously, you’re already garnering a reputation on dueling servers as “The complainer”. You literally have an excuse every duel. Just say “GF” and move onto the next one. God.

Aaron.2413:

Ostricheggs.3742:

no kitten you do backpack.

For the record any mention of that is under NDA.

Not like I’m in it though

LOL… Couple of things..

A. Hugh isn’t grouches assistant lol, he is the main PvP designer and creator of stronghold

B. There is no beta…. I knew you would bite because ur paranoid

C. I’m 17, I can’t legally sign a NDA …..

D. WoW just WoW, Your one salty gentleman

You are one sexy stud. You must be a real chick magnet with that face. /sarcasm. No, 4reals. This is an accurate portrayal of your face.
(-__-)

Timelord.8190:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVy-zLUq6g

Couldn’t stop laughing. GG.

Jasher.6580:

Lettuce.2945:

Best at what? Team pvp? Probably. Thief? No.

If you don’t think Magic Toker is the best Thief then all I have to say to you is this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

I’ll just leave this here.

D/D and P/P. giggles

And @Elitist, maybe you need to learn to read. I said the following (Which I will repeat since it went over your head the first time) Toker – Best team pvper? Probably. Best thief? No.

Jasher.6580:

I understand why people are trying to do this… Nevertheless, players need to understand that Magic Toker is a member of that team.

Playing against Magic Toker only accomplishes one thing…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

-

He is the best. Incoming haters who wish they were as good as him.

Best at what? Team pvp? Probably. Thief? No.

Jana.6831:

Zero Day.2594:

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against roamers… Just I, myself, can’t do it compared to everything I’m losing by staying in a zerg.
From time to time I still do a couple sPvP matches, that’s as small-scale I can go. (Though I tend to focus on other things then 1v1’ing or 1vX in sPvP)

X.x Revenant might make me come back to WvW’ing, considering it’s already beefier than a thief by having medium HP and heavy armor… but yeah, have to see when it comes out really.

You got me wrong: I’m not telling you to go roaming, I was rather thinking aloud as I’m still quite a bit sad that I can’t do what I used to do.
I’m not excited about the extension at all – in my opinion it would be better to adress current issues and not adding tons of new ones to make things worse. With that I mean balance and not just balance between thieves and other classes but in general. I don’t mind being the underdog but if the only chance is to outskill each and every other player it’s kind of meh. And also some other stuff which is wrong with GW2 at the moment, in my opinion – I’d rather have that solved than a shiny new expansion.
And I honestly don’t care about anything but thief – and I knew it from the moment I first used death blossom

Death blossom? Yup, zerger thief all right.

My roaming build has nearly 2.8k power, 2.7k armor, 38% crit rate, 195% crit dmg, 16.8-17.1k hp depending on world bonus and is a SA thief. So I think you could do better than those stats. IP sucks.

Y’all arguing about who the best dueler is when the answer has already been answered. This player has won 3 out of 4 1 v 1 officiated (3k gold per tourney) tournaments and didn’t make it to the last one because of exams.

Btw, Triggerless is back for whoever mentioned him.

Stealth off AI’s or downed players or people that you know rarely dodge. It’s about adapting.

Crapgame.6519:

Lettuce.2945:

Try it.

Lettuce – let it go. Outside looking in he isn’t really picking an argument with you. Just debating based on his play and understanding. At the end of the day agree to disagree. No harm, no foul.

Players that aren’t willing to try things out will never improve. So his loss. I did say it first here. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a meta shift to that soon.

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t actually run LB at all in PvP, nor was I trying to bash lettuce (despite what he seems to think!) I just think it’s really important to look at a build honestly enough to judge whether your spot is better filled by someone running a more conventional build or even a different profession. Usually the meta builds are the meta for a very good reason.

I have no doubt I could 1v1 someone while running lettuce’s build, but I still wouldn’t run it on a team slot.

Try it.

Fluffball.8307:

Lettuce.2945:

Like I said, I’m more than glad to demonstrate how good the build is. You can use your glass ranger or condi ranger against it. The spike is nearly the same as a glass ranger. I don’t know why you are too stubborn to even try it out in real pvp. Everyone’s said the same thing to me, then tried it and ends up using it themselves for tpvp.

I’m not talking about dueling, I’m talking about PvP. I guess to simplify this question, what are you bringing that an ele doesn’t do significantly better?

What are you bringing to the table being a full glass ranger other than being downstate food? No, seriously, try it out. I already said it twice now. I’ll say it one more time. I have a friend who has over 3k hours on ranger. He tried my build and is now using it in tpvp and called it his favorite build for zerker. So…Try it before you knock it. If you have questions, play it and see it answered. You are welcome for the build though. Now stop arguing with me and try it.

Fluffball.8307:

Lettuce.2945:

It’s about clears and such. The build was made in the sense of being in an outnumbered fight. You could be super DPS but if you don’t trait for clears and such…It’s hard to stay alive when you are focused. We both know how much people hate rangers. Amirite?

Sure I get what you’re doing. You have to ask yourself if a half bunker ranger with low spike potential and no AoE is a better slot than a celestial ele or something though, which has both more damage and more sustain.

Glass LBs are popular because they out spike most other builds currently being run, and condi rangers are significantly tankier than your build.

I think you’d be better off taking a celestial amulet and using axe/dagger on swap or something like that, using the LB just for opportunity support like if you were holding home on foefire and moved to support mid from the cliff. Although the arrows wouldn’t land consistently from that distance without RtW.

Like I said, I’m more than glad to demonstrate how good the build is. You can use your glass ranger or condi ranger against it. The spike is nearly the same as a glass ranger. I don’t know why you are too stubborn to even try it out in real pvp. Everyone’s said the same thing to me, then tried it and ends up using it themselves for tpvp.