Guild Wars 2

Extreme.8350:

Lettuce.2945:

Mesmer is indefensible.

Ofcourse that comes from a faceroll ele player somone wants their free kills back.

Kind of funny because if you actually go through my post history, I actually demanded a lot of ele nerfs and suggested a lot of balance fixes to shave eles down. A list of 8 suggested nerfs actually. 8. See that number? 8. I don’t play my ele as much anymore since patch since it’s “faceroll” as you suggested.

The difference between me and you? I can actually admit what I main (or rather, mained) is faceroll. Now, admit mesmers are faceroll or you’re just trying to “defend” your “faceroll”. Every dominant mesmer I know have admitted it’s faceroll. Aili. Rylock. TAS (Even though I hate him). Tek Esper. The list goes on.

Your blinding dissipation argument is poorly constructed with the shadowshot metaphor. You can actually dodge the shadowshot. BD has NO way to evade it. None. You have to either pop invul, remove the blind, or have immunity to condi in order to counter it. Skillful much? Oh! Let’s not forget! It has no icd! Such skill. Much wow. Such impress. sarcasm off.

The ironic thing? I saw mesmers/eles needed to be nerfed since day one. People have been defending it since I suggested eles needed to be toned down since day one. People are now starting to open their eyes to the truth. Time for you to open yours.

Mesmer is indefensible. Sorry, any good player knows that. Stop trying to deflect from the deserved nerfs. Blinding dissipation needs an icd and not hit even through dodge. Stuns need a rework. Shatter dmg itself needs a rework. PU needs to be nerfed. And mesmers will be in a good spot.

I like how whenever someone suggests a nerf to blinding dissipation, most people ignore it and dance around it. Guess we can tell the real and honest mesmers from the fake ones who want to defend their class. Because top 3 things right now that need to be nerfed is easily blinding dissipation, PU, and mind wrack dmg.

As we already discussed in game, I suggested that using steal should remove 2 condis or using steal bundles should remove 1 condi per use. That might be a nice alternative to what you suggested.

Thieves got kitten pretty badly after this patch compared to the rest of the meta. The problem isn’t that thief got super nerfed but rather didn’t receive that much of a buff compared to the other professions. I do agree they need to revert feline’s grace. Acro thieves had one of the highest skill cap in the game and generally had a lot of counters. But you could outplay said counters. So the fact that they kitten it so hard that it’s unplayable (or not as viable as the meta d/p) is kind of sad.

I don’t mind the new shadow’s embrace nerf. There are workarounds for it. But I think mainly, it’s not the nerf to shadow’s embrace that’s the issue but rather the necessity to nerf other profession traits. For example, elementalist’s blinding ashes + mesmer blinding dissipation. That would help a lot with bringing the other professions in line with thieves.

If anet doesn’t intend to nerf some of the top professions in the meta, then I’m for buffing thieves’ hp slightly. As for our sustain, it’s still good but we’re forced to stealth most of the time under constant pressure. Everything else just hits harder after the patch so it seems like our sustain got nerfed. Not quite. Thieves are truly glassy now.

scerevisiae.1972:

Am having no trouble killing D/F… as long as you have a ranged weapon, they’re very easy to kite, as long as you dodge their key skills (BS, the knockdown).

hard to see D/F ever being a thing.

Can’t tell if serious.

Guys. Just ignore the OP. He lost to my guildie on his “amazing” thief while he was playing soldiers SA against marauders SA (guildie) and got rekt pretty badly. Then he got back on mesmer, and after 3 minutes of realizing he did no pressure at all (since he played badly), he called the fight. And I was on my ranger laughing at him and so was kronos. He told me to duel him (marauders ranger), so I did. Note that he said “I’ll kill your ranger easily”.

Ended up forcing him to perma stealth as a PU rabid mesmer and he, again, called the fight after 3 minutes after getting to 20% hp several times while I felt no pressure hovering above 80% hp the whole time.

This is enough to show that OP has no credibility and is pretty bad. He’s clearly trolling as he already said it himself.

Zelulose.8695:

Lynxer.9374:

No I don’t buy it…a thief out of stealth gets blown up by a crit thief who appears to have possibly already been buffed from the fight on point. That’s discounting the fact that the video was very vague with no indication of anyone’s stats in that scenario.

Actually, let me clarify how it works because it is hard to see me when I burst. (all of my builds are no secret) Basically, you have 20 seconds to kill your enemy from stealth or run away while you use your venoms and signets for might stacking and refuge. If you refuge far enough away they can’t see it coming or pre-target you. Then you run up to the unsuspecting player and make a quick choice. If his reaction time is slow you can sneak attack while stunning/steal/ shadow shot and they die from a certain range. If they have a fast reaction time and you wan’t them to be unable to dodge, run behind them like it is a backstab and do the same thing as if you were further away. When it hits, it will deal 1.5 seconds of stun 19k damage tested vs a zerker warrior. (Only tanks and passive traited characters are safe)

I suggest you retract your post because as I mentioned to you in game, I took a screenshot of you admitting that your post wasn’t serious and it was intended as a “joke” to deflect from the real issue at hand…Which are mesmers and eles.

So you want a nerf when you couldn’t react with blinding powder nor you couldn’t daze steal since you clearly didn’t trait into trickery. You seem like the DA/CS/SA line atm since you’re short on 3 ini. Nor do you have shadowstep and your utilities are pretty bad. You were fully aware of something coming yet you sat outside of stealth? No thief worth their salt just stands around especially against another thief or a great zerk mesmer. You can get 100-0’ed like that. You didn’t dodge at all. Even predictive dodging…nope.

And yes, you are the thief who got downed. It’s your youtube channel name and your other videos have your mesmer “Clergyman” as stated in your signature on top of the youtube name matching your account name… Not sure why you think we’re stupid? Who records himself getting bursted by you then askes you to upload? Why can’t he just upload it himself? So did you basically play on 2 accounts and burst yourself? That would explain a lot actually.

Laraley.7695:

Snip

Confirmed you have nothing to contribute. Thanks for the “worthless” arguments. At least the other guy was constructive and actually seemed knowledgable. Lol’ed at your soothing ice backpedal, going into earth is more active than current DS (your argument being that it’s not active) , and BA is easy to keep track of? You lost all credibility just by saying that. You, on the other hand…Not so much.

Raif.9507:

Edit – You know what, I’m being a little unfair. I’ll post why I think you’re wrong.

snip

Now, lets take your other suggestions as some have a basis of merit.

DS
Now, I will agree, I’m not a fan of the “passive” trait. However, it is in essence a good trait. It doesn’t need much changing because it’s OP, but because the skilled eles don’t like passiveness. You say wait, it counters all condi builds! kitten right it does, for a while. I personally believe that this can be left to the side till a later date because in a team game, if you are a condi and facing DS Elet, then you should do the team thing. Call for help if you’re a home point bunker or just back off till teammates come. 90% isn’t much to get a target down to especially if there is more than one player. Should the game ever really evolve into ESports, this is like counter picking an opponent in LoL (it’s like picking Galio into Katarina). You KNOW that there is a condi Necro on the other team, therefore you want a way to counter it (to an extent) and DS is a great way to go. As an aside, I think it does promote skillful play of a sorts as you do need to maintain 90% health which sometimes (especially in a team brawl) is NOT an easy thing to do. If a whole team is condi, well then that’s a terrible decision.
Frost Aura on crit

No, I have 0 problem with it. Especially since we want to BUFF condis to become at a comparable level to direct damage builds. I think the 20 second cooldown is great actually because again, it’s on a crit which is a chance anyway. Sometimes it will be every 20 seconds, sometimes longer. Plus, it requires taking a decent hit (it is a crit) which will chunk your HP pool.

Blinding Ashes
I think this is in general a terrible trait all around. A non controllable blind? Meh. Your suggestion here is sound. 10 second ICD and make it a per target trait. However, this change isn’t because it’s OP, but because this would be a way better trait as it’s only single target at this time.

Bringing back Soothing Winds
No, not at all. This was a trait that was never taken by any elet, and it was for a REASON. It was negligible and the Air line is (or should be) for damage.

Removing Prot from EC
Nope. This will hurt the burst elet way more than it will the D/D ele. Final Shielding is still a bad.
We need to wait for the final condi damage changes, namely the change to burning. After the burning changes, we will most likely see a very different landscape. And if not, then we move on to the next item that sticks out like a sore thumb. Not that it matters, everything is still up in the air now anyways and will be thrown out the window when HoT actually launches.

The diamond skin suggestion was actually both a nerf and a buff. Let me explain why. It’s a nerf in the sense that you have to actively go in earth to proc resistance for 4 secs. But in the hands of a skilled ele player, that’s actually a buff. Hence why I suggested it to promote more skillful play. Having passive immunity to all condis across attunements above 90% hp…Not a fan of it. The nerf/buff I suggested is actually better and stronger in the right ele’s hands. Can you see it?

Precision to healing trait. Don’t forget that they took out stats out of the traitlines. So it might be worth taking now that your main power/prec/ferocity comes from the runes/amulets at the moment. You’ll still retain most of the burst while losing 1 dmg modifier. I don’t think it’s worth overlooking this trait. Might be better than you think considering the new changes.

I’ll have to agree to disagree on soothing ice. It has too much synergy with a lot of traits in many ways. If you trait into earth, not only does it proc protection, but it also procs a regen and a condi cleanse all FROM ONE TRAIT. Yeah, that doesn’t feel right to me. And it’s rng too. If you want to keep the trait itself as a whole, then I suggest raising the icd to reduce the “sustainability” of eles as a whole since the sustain is pretty good on cele.

Glad we agreed on BA and burning.

As for the might stacking, I’m aware that we could stack might pretty high pre patch but that actually required more self active/awareness of rotations. But right now, they dumbed down the might stacking and that’s what I want to adjust. Again, to promote skillful play.

Again, I have to emphasize that I hope you see the nerf/buff aspect of my DS rework. It can be super strong but requires more active play to pull it off.

Laraley.7695:

snip

1. Doesn’t promote skillful play at all, all you’re doing is raising the ICD, no skill involved sill.
2. Removing 800 heal on cele changes nothing. Either increase the cooldown or reduce the duration of the aura, which imo would be a better solution. *
*3. If this change would go through, it would result in no one using the trait, because it would be extremely weak. Either the health treshold needs to be lower with lower duration of the boon or it has to be spread into all attunements. I don’t think it’s wise to stack all defensive stuff into earth, it becomes too powerful.
5. Again, you’re nerfing something completely irrelevant. That’s not where all the might comes from. Ele with blinding ashes can stack up to 25 with no problem, you would be nerfing a trait that’s already underwhelming compared to the two others.
6. The sustain needs to be shaved down to balance it, there’s no discussion about it. *
7. If you do that, you’re going to make the trait completely bad. A few sec of retal and fury is not going to cut it for a master trait. The vigor is completely useless. The durations either of protection from both EC and EA need to be decreased or better the trait needs to be completely removed and replaced by something useful since the choices in that slot are alredy quite poor.
*snip

So yeah all you want to do is to nerf the traits that has nothing to do with the problem.

It’s funny how you agreed with me without realizing it. I’ll point it out. And you contradicted yourself. You said that eles can stack too much might at this point then said that they stack it a lot especially in the BA line…Which is were the traits that I suggested nerfing so it requires the ele to actively stack might more rather than passively with might on cantrips and using fire skills (since we have to use cantrips a lot anyways..). And that’s just the first step towards toning it down, then we can work on reducing the mights gained from blasts for eles possibly.

Low base survivability but when traited, too strong. Hence…My suggestions to tone down some of “said” traits that are “too strong”. You just said to raise the icd of soothing ice…Which is what I said. Funny guy. The regen portion of it actually syncs with cleanse on regen…It’s not the “800” heal that’s too strong. It’s the rng cleanse. We have enough access to regen as is. Get it? Ok.

The rework to diamond skin would promote more skillful play. Considering the attunement recharge rate is 8 secs if you go in arcana…Procc’ing 4 secs of resistance every time you go in earth is fair while above 75% hp threshold. Considering the sustain on ele, I would say the threshold is good enough. You want to lower it? Then that’s just making it easier for the ele. It will promote more skillful play. You somewhat agreed with me here yet didn’t because you want it passively across all attunements. So it’s confirmed that you do want to be carried by passive play.

The sustain can be somewhat nerfed by what I mentioned. Part of it is because of the rng passive traits contributing to us being able to “sustain”.

Did I ever say blinding ashes was skillful? It never will be, no matter how much you look at it. When you actually pvp, you can’t keep track of when it’ll proc. But the trait itself is too strong at the moment, and if you want to keep the “blind on burn” trait…Then raise the icd to 10 secs per target without completely making it useless. The reason I say per target is that it’ll allow for the fire line eles to have some kind of defense (even if it’s rng) if they tone down the other traits along with this.

EC is useful at the moment if you want to look at it from a “useful” standpoint. It provides more rng boons. (Which is what I don’t like about this trait…the rng). So stop making it out to be completely useless because it isn’t. The retal as well adds to your own dps. We already have enough access to protection hence my suggestion to remove it from this trait specifically. If you want to lower the duration of protection, then say it. Just simply suggest that and modify my suggestion instead of, for the past week or so, saying my ideas “were ridiculous”. Yet you don’t even realize how much you agreed with me just now.

My precision to healing power was a shot in the dark considering some of the fresh air eles that I know talking about how they wanted a bit more sustain. And knowing they trait into air…That’s where the idea came from. I also would play lighting rod marauders d/f sometimes for the lulz. So having some kind of sustain on it would be nice. The damage isn’t the issue anymore since traitlines don’t give stats anymore. Most of your damage actually comes from the amulet. So having a “lack” of damage on marauders/zerk? Yeah, right. No. The damage will still be there despite losing out on ONE damage modifier.

Raif.9507:

Lettuce.2945:

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

Umm.. No. I’ve purposely ignored your threads for a reason and it’s because you propose ridiculous ideas and nerfs that aren’t even on point for what needs to be done.

Even your #8 is so wrong. It was never that way, it was Ferocity based upon your healing power. You’re talking about bringing back Soothing Winds which was a useless trait that was never taken hence it was removed. I could address your 8 points individually, but I’d rather not waste my time nor derail this thread. Pyromancers Pussiance….

For god sake, let the “meta” settle, the patch has been out for all of 13 days.

As I already said multiple times, I’ll duel anyone on NA who questions my skills. Then you’re welcome to apologize afterwards. Multiple people have already dueled me and apologized.

And my balance suggestions were all from discussion with some of the pro eles that I know on NA. We were all in agreement that it would tone down the class that would be balanced.

And how about you tell me why my nerfs are “ridiculous”? Do you encourage passive defense traits based on rng? That’s what it seems like. Are you telling me soothing ice isn’t too strong at the moment in conjunction with cleanse on regen or elemental shielding? Now even d/f eles have access to frost aura. Are you trying to tell me that blinding ashes on a flame legion ele on a 5 sec icd is skillful play? Have you ever tried playing a d/f earth line diamond skin ele vs a condi class? The condi class absolutely has 0 chance of winning. Literally. The hp won’t budge. The 33 sec cd invuls, the 16 sec cd clears on mag wave, the water heals, the cleansing fire…And that’s even if they manage to break diamond skin…Yea, it’s not too strong at the moment. sarcasm. Are you trying to say that we don’t have enough access to protection, because we have some of the best access to it. Why not just remove another rng trait that gives us protection? Are you saying that eles that can maintain 20+ might stacks on their own is balanced when most other classes can’t? HGH engis can. Are you telling me burning is in a good spot right now especially with how easily eles can burn and how easily they can might stack? Are you telling me that my idea to keep ele sustain while toning down those other traits are “ridiculous” considering how eles have one of the lowest armor/hp pool in the game? And no, it was precision to healing power. I can prove it by linking you to multiple forum posts discussing how to raise maximum healing power on eles pre patch and people are all saying “precision to healing trait”. So…If you want to argue with me about that, feel free to do so.

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

Siva Mira.3546:

If you want to talk to the man about his post in this thread then talk just about what he had posted in the this thread but not random thing about him.

This is such a coward action to attack people.

jportell != rossbiddle.

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

Anyways, I already dueled a couple people here who wanted to “test” my skill level and proved it already. If anyone else is interested on NA, let me know so we can move forward to discussing balance. I also won all duels on cele vs stickerhappy and 4-2 on marauders against his cele ranger. So, feel free to msg me in game if you want a demonstration.

StickerHappy.8052:

Wow people here critiquing the thief for missing steals lol. If you were that thief i dont think you would last long in that duel.

Even without pu, that match will be problematic.

Blinding dissipation is super strong when you pair it with distortion, reflects plus stealths.

Also mesmer “mains” fyi the mes was running mental defense, this will. Take the thief a while do a significant burst.

While phants wail at him, shatters with ip so you get on demand blinds on a 12 sec cd aoe, with just the f1’ pair this torch blind and ineptitude, goodluck fighting that mesmer.

That’s kronos. He’s a guildie of mine (leader) and one of the top duelist on NA multiclass. My thief dueled his mesmer a lot for testing purposes to help him theorize a couple builds. My thief has always forced a stalemate with both of us applying pressure on one another. It definitely doesn’t help to fight a mesmer that knows the mechanics of thief inside and out. And even kronos said that mesmers are broken right now along with eles. He wants both of them shaved.

Anyways, to the thieves out there…For dueling purposes…If you want to do well against this build, I suggest swapping over to s/d with d/p instead of shortbow with energy/blood sigil on it. But believe me when I say, this isn’t even his strongest build. His strongest has no PU in it. And Rylock created a super super strong build that is pretty OP in the hands of a knowledgeable mesmer. Almost impossible to beat but can force a draw. And no, it’s not PU. As for s/d, it does better and applies more pressure and more escape mechanics dueling wise. Also allows you to remove blinds easier. Shortbow is still superior in team fights though.

mistsim.2748:

Lettuce.2945:

So what the video shows is that no matter how much the ranger could possibly outplay the ele, as long as the ele does what was done in the video…The ranger stands zero chance even if the ele doesn’t fight back.

but that ranger was such a bad. how is this even a thread?

a thief wouldn’t stand a chance either, yet both the ranger and the thief can spike the d/d ele down when +1’ing the fight. what’s the issue here?

Duel the same ranger in the video then, or duel an ele on your ranger (perhaps mine?). Show us how it’s done. And do you not read? That ranger wasn’t “really” dueling. He was just dps’ing to prove a point. Don’t be dumb. Please. Just don’t be one of those guys.

alain.1659:

For the sake of conversation I will assume that you were not saying come and get me bro, but suggesting to purely demonstrate. But I will test what you said with my guildies. Like I said the burning dmg and blinding ashes are already problematic but lets see if other parts are too or not.

I can demonstrate it to you if you want if you’re on NA. I don’t have any qualms in doing so. I do main an ele, so I feel like it’s a good test.

alain.1659:

Do ele vs necro, interrupt mesmer, warrior and engi. Then we can understand the reality. Rangers are not in a good point nowadays (still better than video). But burning is a problem.

People are trying to tell you that rangers bad play effects things. It is underpowered now so you have to play good with ranger. What you did is like spamming auto attack and shadowshot with thief without other weapon skills. Anyway ele is neither the most bugged nor the most powerful. Pvp is effed altogether with the new patch. There should be some nerfs.

Ps: Interrupt mesmers are reallt a thing now.

Sure. Bring all of the 4 against my ele alain. I’ll demonstrate it to you.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

You guys are clearly really stupid if you can’t comprehend the point of the video. The ranger wasn’t fighting as if he was in a real duel. He was just “pew pewing” FOR THE DAMAGE PURPOSE to dps the ele as a point. Not to fight on an esports level. Ranger wasn’t fighting to his full extent obviously because ele wasn’t fighting back. The POINT WAS, the RANGER can’t DPS THE ELE enough to WIN IN A REAL DUEL ANYWAYS. The ranger would have rotated better in a real duel but that wasn’t the point of the video. It was just a dps test.

I actually thought the community was smarter than this. I guess I thought wrong?

You didn’t understand what several people have been trying to tell you. The pewpewing wasn’t going to do anything, because the ranger played badly without any timing and it shouldn’t really accomplish much anyway. You cannot expect to do some decent damage if all your skills are mindlessly used, that’s a simple fact. Calling others stupid for telling you they do not like your video as it proves nothing – really classy.

I like how you still danced around my last post to you. Answer it.

And you still miss the point. If the ele actually fought back in the full duration of the video…Ranger would have died. That’s the point. No matter how hard the ranger tries, it’s not possible unless the ele is super super bad. Nothing should hard counter a class that much especially if said class is zerk. Now stop being stupidly ignorant of that fact. And stop trying to argue just to argue.

You’re just a flamebaiter. Nothing more.

Elitist.8701:

This is pretty funny and shows the state of balance in this game.

-retired best multiclass NA

Edit: LOL Lettuce just as amusing as he used to be “1v1 me I’ll beat you” and saying Kronos is a “well known PvPer”. There’s a reason FEAR was/is the laughingstock of PvP.

And there’s a reason you get rekt by almost every single member in FEAR 1 v 1. I remember you jumping my ranger in a duel and you dying. Good job. So good. Much wow. Such skill. Not really. Stick to trolling baddies in dueling servers and don’t troll people above your skill level.

Grimreaper.5370:

Lettuce.2945:

Grimreaper.5370:

Lettuce.2945:

Grimreaper.5370:

Here is what I think needs to be done…
8-9 second CD on blinding ashes( Allow a per target cd on blinding ashes instead of an ICD)

Ring of Earth no longer blocks projectiles if it does NOT land on a target

Regen duration slightly reduced (remove regen from soothing ice?)

Burning condition re-scaled across the board

Diamond skin reworked

Obsidian flesh CD slightly increased.

Drakes breath and Fire grab re-scaled so that drakes breath hits less hard and fire grab hits much harder. (its much harder to land a Fire Grab than drakes breath, and right now in some circumstances Drakes Breath hits just as hard as a fire grab if the full channel lands and burns are not cleansed, the CD on drakes breath is also very short while fire grab is a very long CD. It makes more sense to me for being heavily rewarded for landing a fire grab with a burn applied opposed to being heavily rewarded for spamming drakes breath)

…Would also be nice to get something a little more reliable than churning earth, that skill is almost a waste time now with how great the burning condition is. I have never been a fan of Churning Earth.

I would also be up for taking a chunk out of ele sustain if it meant getting back 15 second CD on Ride the Lightning.

The ring of earth suggestion is a bit extreme. D/D eles need something to help against rangers. Especially in wvw. You have to think in terms of the entire game, just not one game mode. I think my suggestions are sufficient and sinject has +1’ed it. Do you +1 it as well?

And you shouldn’t just nerf ele sustain based on one weaponset astro. I know you can think better than this. Rethink that.

Lettuce, the sustain nerf can be taken out of dagger 5 cleansing water to compensate for lowwer CD on RTL.

That will hurt s/d eles though.

Perhaps it would in some cases but in others it would provide them with more kiting capability making them better at escaping sticky situations, correct?

I don’t think asking for a ~10-15% shave on cleansing wave is too much if we receive a 15 sec CD on a mobility skill which used to make this class an amazing roamer.

You know me. I rarely d/d. And even I know this is too much. I’ll be glad to explain as to why in guild chat especially in terms of roaming which I know you don’t do.

Grimreaper.5370:

Lettuce.2945:

Grimreaper.5370:

Here is what I think needs to be done…
8-9 second CD on blinding ashes( Allow a per target cd on blinding ashes instead of an ICD)

Ring of Earth no longer blocks projectiles if it does NOT land on a target

Regen duration slightly reduced (remove regen from soothing ice?)

Burning condition re-scaled across the board

Diamond skin reworked

Obsidian flesh CD slightly increased.

Drakes breath and Fire grab re-scaled so that drakes breath hits less hard and fire grab hits much harder. (its much harder to land a Fire Grab than drakes breath, and right now in some circumstances Drakes Breath hits just as hard as a fire grab if the full channel lands and burns are not cleansed, the CD on drakes breath is also very short while fire grab is a very long CD. It makes more sense to me for being heavily rewarded for landing a fire grab with a burn applied opposed to being heavily rewarded for spamming drakes breath)

…Would also be nice to get something a little more reliable than churning earth, that skill is almost a waste time now with how great the burning condition is. I have never been a fan of Churning Earth.

I would also be up for taking a chunk out of ele sustain if it meant getting back 15 second CD on Ride the Lightning.

The ring of earth suggestion is a bit extreme. D/D eles need something to help against rangers. Especially in wvw. You have to think in terms of the entire game, just not one game mode. I think my suggestions are sufficient and sinject has +1’ed it. Do you +1 it as well?

And you shouldn’t just nerf ele sustain based on one weaponset astro. I know you can think better than this. Rethink that.

Lettuce, the sustain nerf can be taken out of dagger 5 cleansing water to compensate for lowwer CD on RTL.

That will hurt s/d eles though.

Grimreaper.5370:

Here is what I think needs to be done…
8-9 second CD on blinding ashes( Allow a per target cd on blinding ashes instead of an ICD)

Ring of Earth no longer blocks projectiles if it does NOT land on a target

Regen duration slightly reduced (remove regen from soothing ice?)

Burning condition re-scaled across the board

Diamond skin reworked

Obsidian flesh CD slightly increased.

Drakes breath and Fire grab re-scaled so that drakes breath hits less hard and fire grab hits much harder. (its much harder to land a Fire Grab than drakes breath, and right now in some circumstances Drakes Breath hits just as hard as a fire grab if the full channel lands and burns are not cleansed, the CD on drakes breath is also very short while fire grab is a very long CD. It makes more sense to me for being heavily rewarded for landing a fire grab with a burn applied opposed to being heavily rewarded for spamming drakes breath)

…Would also be nice to get something a little more reliable than churning earth, that skill is almost a waste time now with how great the burning condition is. I have never been a fan of Churning Earth.

I would also be up for taking a chunk out of ele sustain if it meant getting back 15 second CD on Ride the Lightning.

The ring of earth suggestion is a bit extreme. D/D eles need something to help against rangers. Especially in wvw. You have to think in terms of the entire game, just not one game mode. I think my suggestions are sufficient and sinject has +1’ed it. Do you +1 it as well?

And you shouldn’t just nerf ele sustain based on one weaponset astro. I know you can think better than this. Rethink that.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

rotten.9753:

Lettuce.2945:

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

With per-target icd? Because otherwise we have this little trait.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

That trait is bugged and scales off toughness right now (which will take at least 6 months to fix it). Besides, air line has nothing to do with sustain and pre-patch it was gain ferocity based on healing power, a candidate to worst trait ever award,

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, a 10s icd on blinding ashes PER target. Forgot about that. Otherwise it would be a pretty weak trait.

And the reason I mentioned the precision or ferocity to healing power was because pre patch, the water line for zerk eles gave healing power so they had some form of sustain especially s/f. But right now, the trait lines doesn’t give any stat boosts, so if you play anything but cele, you’re sitting with 0 healing power unless you take a healing rune. But you lose out on additional damage if you do. So it’s kind of like pick your poison.

So you realize your rework to a trait would be bad, but still want to do it for some unknown reasons? I don’t know if I can facepalm enough.

Is english not a native language of yours? Doesn’t seem to be. Facepalming hard right now to your lack of comprehension. Why can’t your level of comprehension be the same of Sinject’s or grim? Are you just dense? It’s ok if you’re. If you are, we can just ignore you.

You basically only explained why it’s a bad idea, you didn’t say: ‘’Oh, I forgot you cannot get healing power anymore, I take that back.’’

I would strongly suggest you re read my post. Seems like it flew over your head. You clearly failed to comprehend what I said. Do you want me to bold it for you? The part you missed? I’ll be happy to do so.

I did read it. You stated that as a zerker ele you won’t have any healing power, only if you’re celestial, which is surprisingly correct. Your point? Still want it to scale from healing power?

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision or ferocity. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Bolded relevant part for you. Edited the or ferocity part, someone needs to confirm if it’s precision or ferocity. Any more questions or do you need me to guide you through each suggestion?

It was precision and it’s not really relevant.

You know what’s gonna happen if this change would actually go through? Yes, no one will pick it up, it would be a horrible change and all you would accomplish is making all elementalists in pve mad because they actually use this. In pvp, you will most likely take One with Air anyway. Still don’t get why it’s a bad idea?

Nah I would actually take the precision to healing power especially with marauders to prevent people qq’ing about cele eles especially in a 1 v 1 context as a d/f ele. Sorry you want everything ez mode so you’re trying to deflect what actually needs to be reworked. Stone heart? Really? You just want them to nerf the wrong things so ele is basically the same as it is now. I see through you.

Eurantien.4632:

Lettuce.2945:

Eurantien.4632:

That was really painful to watch. Your ranger friend needs to learn how to use his pets properly. Standing in the open like that you could die vs a competent ranger. Though its still in the eles favor.

I wasn’t fighting like I would duel. I was just simply trying to kill the ele. And using melee weapon against an ele especially a fire traited one is just suicide.

You’re free to try to duel my ele on your zerk ranger if you have a NA account. It would probably be a better confirmation anyways.

There is no reason a pet cc should not land on a single target. Since all of them should land and none of them did… Of course the ele was able to survive no problem. If they all landed the ele would be forced to LoS, quite quickly (at least once the stab is gone). This patch, the pets can even have more cc than before. If the ele wants to just kill the ranger though, then of course the ele would win.

You’re joking right? I legit did a immobil + fear + taunt combo…more than once. You’re more than welcome to duel my ele on your ranger since you seem pretty confident you can win as a zerk ranger.

I main an ele and I’m trying to at least rework eles so that the ranger at least has a fighting chance. And you’re….

COMPLAINING?

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

rotten.9753:

Lettuce.2945:

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

With per-target icd? Because otherwise we have this little trait.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

That trait is bugged and scales off toughness right now (which will take at least 6 months to fix it). Besides, air line has nothing to do with sustain and pre-patch it was gain ferocity based on healing power, a candidate to worst trait ever award,

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, a 10s icd on blinding ashes PER target. Forgot about that. Otherwise it would be a pretty weak trait.

And the reason I mentioned the precision or ferocity to healing power was because pre patch, the water line for zerk eles gave healing power so they had some form of sustain especially s/f. But right now, the trait lines doesn’t give any stat boosts, so if you play anything but cele, you’re sitting with 0 healing power unless you take a healing rune. But you lose out on additional damage if you do. So it’s kind of like pick your poison.

So you realize your rework to a trait would be bad, but still want to do it for some unknown reasons? I don’t know if I can facepalm enough.

Is english not a native language of yours? Doesn’t seem to be. Facepalming hard right now to your lack of comprehension. Why can’t your level of comprehension be the same of Sinject’s or grim? Are you just dense? It’s ok if you’re. If you are, we can just ignore you.

You basically only explained why it’s a bad idea, you didn’t say: ‘’Oh, I forgot you cannot get healing power anymore, I take that back.’’

I would strongly suggest you re read my post. Seems like it flew over your head. You clearly failed to comprehend what I said. Do you want me to bold it for you? The part you missed? I’ll be happy to do so.

I did read it. You stated that as a zerker ele you won’t have any healing power, only if you’re celestial, which is surprisingly correct. Your point? Still want it to scale from healing power?

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision or ferocity. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Bolded relevant part for you. Edited the or ferocity part, someone needs to confirm if it’s precision or ferocity. Any more questions or do you need me to guide you through each suggestion?

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

rotten.9753:

Lettuce.2945:

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

With per-target icd? Because otherwise we have this little trait.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

That trait is bugged and scales off toughness right now (which will take at least 6 months to fix it). Besides, air line has nothing to do with sustain and pre-patch it was gain ferocity based on healing power, a candidate to worst trait ever award,

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, a 10s icd on blinding ashes PER target. Forgot about that. Otherwise it would be a pretty weak trait.

And the reason I mentioned the precision or ferocity to healing power was because pre patch, the water line for zerk eles gave healing power so they had some form of sustain especially s/f. But right now, the trait lines doesn’t give any stat boosts, so if you play anything but cele, you’re sitting with 0 healing power unless you take a healing rune. But you lose out on additional damage if you do. So it’s kind of like pick your poison.

So you realize your rework to a trait would be bad, but still want to do it for some unknown reasons? I don’t know if I can facepalm enough.

Is english not a native language of yours? Doesn’t seem to be. Facepalming hard right now to your lack of comprehension. Why can’t your level of comprehension be the same of Sinject’s or grim? Are you just dense? It’s ok if you’re. If you are, we can just ignore you.

You basically only explained why it’s a bad idea, you didn’t say: ‘’Oh, I forgot you cannot get healing power anymore, I take that back.’’

I would strongly suggest you re read my post. Seems like it flew over your head. You clearly failed to comprehend what I said. Do you want me to bold it for you? The part you missed? I’ll be happy to do so.

rotten.9753:

Lettuce.2945:

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

With per-target icd? Because otherwise we have this little trait.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

That trait is bugged and scales off toughness right now (which will take at least 6 months to fix it). Besides, air line has nothing to do with sustain and pre-patch it was gain ferocity based on healing power, a candidate to worst trait ever award,

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, a 10s icd on blinding ashes PER target. Forgot about that. Otherwise it would be a pretty weak trait.

And the reason I mentioned the precision or ferocity to healing power was because pre patch, the water line for zerk eles gave healing power so they had some form of sustain especially s/f. But right now, the trait lines doesn’t give any stat boosts, so if you play anything but cele, you’re sitting with 0 healing power unless you take a healing rune. But you lose out on additional damage if you do. So it’s kind of like pick your poison. Also it would encourage more eles to go a zerkier path and go into air for more build diversity. That’s the main reason I suggested this. To promote more build diversity with various weaponsets instead of the standard s/f or s/d fresh air or d/f lighting rod.

sinject.4607:

Lettuce.2945:

As I already said, I propose a couple changes to the elementalist traits.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

And I think eles will be in a very good spot compared to the rest of the meta, reasonably speaking. Nerfed but not overnerfed to the point of uselessness like some people want.

great post (first time in a while i’ve been able to say this without any irony behind it).

on might stacking: i’ve suggested it in the past but i still think the best solution to nerfing it while still promoting skillful use in team environments is by hard limiting the amount of might you can stack by yourself to 10 stacks. this is still a sizable amount of power/condition damage (+300) but limits the absurdity of certain builds being able to dominate 1v1 fights thanks in part to their shear might stacking ability, which is what elementalist is foremost guilty of. this way, teamplay is still promoted by stacking might as a team but might is still nerfed without it negatively affecting weapon skills/utilities outside of their might stacking functionality.

i think with this nerf in conjecture with many of the nerfs you listed above, ele would be well balanced.

Thanks! Right now, most people are too concerned with immediate easy fixes like 100 nades bugs, and rampage…etc. I’m trying to think in the long term sense how to balance the classes. I don’t care about any “bugs”. They’ll fix it asap. They already said they’ll rework damage/condi damage. So now, I’m just focused on something that’s longer term. Some people just can’t see past 5 feet and that’s pretty sad.

Eurantien.4632:

That was really painful to watch. Your ranger friend needs to learn how to use his pets properly. Standing in the open like that you could die vs a competent ranger. Though its still in the eles favor.

I wasn’t fighting like I would duel. I was just simply trying to kill the ele. And using melee weapon against an ele especially a fire traited one is just suicide.

You’re free to try to duel my ele on your zerk ranger if you have a NA account. It would probably be a better confirmation anyways.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

This is basically propaganda:

1. A fight like this would never happen in a normal 5v5 game because fighting 1v1 on point isn’t what LB rangers are about.
2. It’s common knowledge that rangers aren’t really happy with the state of their class, so it seems you’ve purposefully chosen one of the worst classes right now to “prove” your point.
3. The ranger didn’t play particularly well either. Didn’t even weapon swap or open from stealth (yes in normal games you usually don’t see a ranger/thief/mesmer coming, dueling completely warps the game around this issue).

Now make a video like this against a signet necro or a mesmer and the game will look completely different. This was probably the worst demonstration you could have chosen. Some classes simply are countered harder by some specs than others. This is a fact and will probably never change.

This simply looks like another of those “nerf ele” crusades that we’ve seen every single time ele was viable. They only stopped once they were so unviable that you got flamed for playing one in pvp – and even then some people still asked for nerfs…

I too can make a video playing a Condi ranger against a thief that’s not allowed to weaponswap and doesn’t have any condi cleanses and the result will be that the thief gets owned hard by the evading, condi-spamming bunker ranger. Does this mean ranger is OP? Hell no. It simply means that some specs work better against some other specs, while some work worse.

This is commonly refered to as the METAGAME.

If you’re on NA, I’ll gladly demonstrate how inferior you are. 1 v 1?

Same goes for you Laraley.

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’m worried that bumping this post may be a mistake on my part, but I’ll bite.

In the first video you’ve shown a cele ele with energy runes (majority don’t take these) sustaining against a power ranger at range using only skills one and 2. While it is true that cele eles should usually win that matchup, that video blows that way out of proportion.

In the 2nd video you’ve shown a cele ele defeating 2 guardians, one that was running a weird mace symbol build and one that was probably running 11k hp. Neither could significantly pressure the ele outside of melee range. Cele eles have always outclassed medi guards for that reason.

For the record, I only play about 25% of my matches on ele.

You are trying to blow this perceived imbalance way out of proportion using deceptive videos in dueling servers. Please stop. There are several more pressing balance issues at the moment…..guardians that do 20k burn ticks by pressing one button….burn in general, the nades thing….rampage….shatter mesmers (which will hard counter your ele) There isn’t a shortage of legitimate things to complain about. Pick one of those instead maybe?

I hope you realize that myself and grim, we both mained eles since we started this game. And we are aware that ele is king at the moment. Shatter mesmers don’t hard counter eles anymore especially earth traited ones. It’s an even match up nowadays. (Tbh, I haven’t lost to one yet though).

And the reason the test came on my ranger was that I was dueling a guildie of mine on my ranger versus his ele. And he’s a well known pvper…Kronos Xnm…We both agreed that eles are too strong and at the top of the hill right now. We both want a reasonable nerf. So I was dueling him and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t kill him. So I had a theory that a full zerk ranger wouldn’t be able to dps the ele down to 0 anyways if he rotates right. So hence…the video. So what the video shows is that no matter how much the ranger could possibly outplay the ele, as long as the ele does what was done in the video…The ranger stands zero chance even if the ele doesn’t fight back. Now this is just a small example of what ele does to many professions. Same goes for thieves, necros, guards, rangers, warriors, engineers…I mean, come on. Where do you draw the line?

I have no issues dealing with rampage and 100 nades on my ele especially when I main d/f ele. Do not assume we’re noobs.

My ele even dueled Rytlock, one of the best mesmers in the game…And forced a tie on both fire and earth traitlines (testing both). He can confirm it. Mesmers and Eles are too strong at the moment. Everything else is subpar compared to those 2.

As I already said, I propose a couple changes to the elementalist traits.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

And I think eles will be in a very good spot compared to the rest of the meta, reasonably speaking. Nerfed but not overnerfed to the point of uselessness like some people want.

Sandrox.9524:

Lettuce.2945:

Michael.9517:

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Wasn’t the part where he said acro was stronger than before a dead giveaway that he wasn’t legit?

tho what he posted is sizer build atm.

But the video clearly says…Crit strikes s/d thief. I’m talking about the fact that acro definitely isn’t stronger than before. It got nerfed to oblivion.

The best rotation is to not have a rotation that’s focused on one thing. Fight accordingly to the situation is the secret. Just a small example. See a thief about to stealth from pistol 5? Walk up and pop shocking aura and then use burning speed + lighting flash on the point where he heartseekers and hits you because he’ll 100% be stunned on the spot there while stealthed.

Blinded? Use burning speed on someone who thinks you’re blinded and just before it lands, swap to water to cleanse it and to grab the fury. Small things like that you have to think about and you’ll be fine.

Oxidia.8103:

It seems every class is op on this part of the forum. Well, every class IS op if you don’t know how to play your class. Sorry.

I know how to play 5 classes. I think I’m ok there.

Michael.9517:

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Wasn’t the part where he said acro was stronger than before a dead giveaway that he wasn’t legit?

BlackBeard.2873:

Lettuce, your “demonstration” is just silly. It is a zerker ranger playing like he is a PvE Bearbow ranger – using skills right off CD, not counting any dodges, and just camping longbow. He isn’t even standing at max range to maximize damage, or properly using CC.

Also, the ranger is playing a spec that specializes in +1’ing opponents, while fighting an opponent who is an excellent duelist. Of course the ele who is going through an entire rotation isn’t going to take any damage from a glorified rifle-turret.

That isn’t to say that eles couldn’t use a shave, especially in the sustain from water/arcana. I think the best (first) place to start is cleansing water from evasive-arcana dodge: there is a reason it was nerfed in pvp before. They could remove the healing from the water dodge, and the trait would still be excellent.

I also like the suggestion that soothing ice not grant regen – it makes the trait just another “this is another condi cleanse trait” with an added benefit of reducing power-damage too, as opposed to presenting a real choice. To be honest, I hate that the trait is so passive to begin with.

Also, I think they could undo some of the small buffs done in the past: burning speed doesn’t really need to evade, and there isn’t really a need for a blast on frozen burst.

I think they should reduce the protection durations from elemental attunement and elemental contingency a bit – these two traits are enough for perma-prot without even going into earth or taking armor of earth. Maybe they are about to up the amount of boonstrip a ton, but if not, this is just too much, too easily. Before when eles couldn’t take both ele contingency AND ele attunement, at least they didn’t get perma-prot so easily and swapping to earth was an actual timing thing.

I hate diamond skin because of how passive it is – rework the trait in some way to require having a brain rather than just spamming healing skills to stay above 90% health. It is a stupid trait, that now can be abused because you no longer have to give up water/arcana to get it.

Finally, I think everyone agrees that burning needs to get reduced a decent amount now.

Some of these changes might bring ele out of the stratosphere, but they won’t address the “pigeon-holed into water/arcana” problem. However, I am pretty sure Anet doesn’t have the will to do more extensive work including further nerfing of these sustain traits with simultaneous buffing of weapon-skills and utilities (stronger and/or lower cooldowns) to make the class less rotation-based.

Maybe you should rewatch the video. I actually combo’ed my skills and counted dodges. Watch it from my perspective. I even combo’ed immobil + taunt and fear with a rapid fire chain. It does nothing. I’ve gotten him to 15-20% a few times but he just heals up back with cantrips/regen/water attunement heals/skills. If I went into GS, it’s suicide vs an ele especially with the BA trait. A ranger has to stay ranged vs an ele, but my point was more rather…A zerk ranger’s dps alone isn’t even enough to kill a cele ele because of all the passive defense they have and the regen/prot rotations. Not to mention, I got retal a couple of times on me + burning, so i had to heal up. But mostly, i used my survival skills to keep perma fury up just to keep up the dps. If it was a real duel, a ranger wouldn’t stand a chance nor would most specs vs that set up. I picked ranger because it’s one of the burstier spec with some nice cc’s to prove a point about the passive level of eles now.

I main an ele and always mained it since I started the game. And I was always proud of my level of ele gameplay. But now, I’m not proud anymore. They dumbed down the profession so much that the average monkey could play well on it. Now it’s hard to differentiate the skilled eles from the bad ones. And that’s where my problem with this patch is. They also nerfed acro thieves which had one of the highest skill cap (and highest outplay potential) in the game and pigeonholed thieves into the 60606 build which is also pretty rng in itself. So if they nerf eles a bit, deservedly so, I’ll make do with it because I know I’m skilled enough to embrace the changes. And it’ll reduce the amount of eles out there that think they’re good at all and kittenhem away from the class to play something “easier”. Right now, there’s a plethora of eles since the patch and I can see why. And I’m not proud of it.

And my bearbow does great versus many builds 1 v 1 wise. So it’s not the point here anyways. And I don’t really run zerk rangers at all. It’s either marauders or knights. I just went zerk for the sole purpose of dps as a demonstration.

StickerHappy.8052:

Lettuce.2945:

Also leaving this here. My d/f ele could 1 v 2 as well. It’s too OP at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYO3pyCAdlY

uhmm lettuce can you post clearer videos next time, if you can?
like at least 720p

They’re not my videos.

Also leaving this here. My d/f ele could 1 v 2 as well. It’s too OP at this point.

I’ll just leave this here. Zerk ranger trying to kill the cele ele without the cele ele fighting back. Take note that he’s fire, not earth. And he’s not even d/f. If it was d/f, it woulda been worse. If he fought back, he would have killed the ranger about 5-6 times in the duration of the video. No matter if the ranger outskills the ele, it’s too much a hard counter thanks to the passive rng traits like blinds, soothing ice, burns from flame legion + BA rune. Just look at how often the ranger has to heal and the ele isn’t doing a single thing.

But hey, #Balanced. Let’s nerf stoneheart. (Trollface). Not even using earth traitlines.

Now can we discuss genuine reasonable nerfs?

I propose a raise in the icd of blinding ashes to 10 seconds or so.

A raise to the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

A rework to diamond skin to proc resistance for 4 secs every time you go in earth above 75% health threshold or something of the sort to promote more “skillful” play.

Scale down burning across all professions.

And I think eles will be in a good spot after those things get implemented.

alain.1659:

If in this new meta-era you are losing constantly to elementalist profession, you should change your own class. Because it means that you are neither skilled, nor aware of the environment with it.

Ele’s are the last thing to worry. For the thieves, it is usually the easiest class to slay. Wait for ele to cast, then attack and deal damage like a truck. Easy it is. If it is dagger dagger, initiate, roll back, initiate again at the right time. Celestial amulets are the only option for the ele builds. With marauder/zerker, elementalist’s die too easy. And you are talking about stone heart? If the bloody elementalist stays in the earth attunement it is perfect! No burst, no heal, no condi cleanse, no stun… Too much defense never wins in Gw2 sadly. Timing is the most valuable asset for pvp. Before complaining about something (which is your uttermost right, I am not objecting it) maybe you should ask some advice from someone that uses your profession in the game. That always opens new paths and perspectives.

Maybe you should duel my ele and just see how well you do on your thief because I can promise that you’ll be the one pressured.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Okay so you are simply stating stone heart is OP on paper, you have no real evidence of it being an actual issue. This is not how balance changes should be approached, you need to provide evidence.

Have you ever thought about the fact I might have tried playing with it?

Make a video then, provide evidence that stone heart is imbalanced.

After you make a video it’s balanced. Seriously, these arguments, jeez.

What you just said proves that you live to argue even if it’s invalid. When someone suggests a nerf, they should be the one to provide evidence as to why it deserves a nerf. Otherwise…Nerf isn’t happening. Anet designed stone heart knowing it’s balanced. To prove otherwise, show why IT’S NOT. Now thanks for that statement. I know you just argue for the sake of arguing now. It’s clear as day.

How is that arguing? That’s just asking him the same stupid question he asked me, seems pretty legit to me. And you were the one with the need of repyling to this post to…argue. I don’t have to prove anything to anyone, I’m quite sure I’m allowed to express my opinion and that’s what I did. I don’t really care what you think, though. Yes, ANet designed everything knowing it’s balanced and we have no broken things in the game. Great logic.

You see that? That’s my point flying over your head. Anet designed the game thinking it’s balanced. Otherwise, why would they implement all those changes? When they beta tested the trait changes, they think, oh ok, it’s balanced. But in a live setting, all hell broke loose across all professions including burning. They acknowledged that and are working on it. But you, like the idiot you are, are asking for a nerf to stone heart which in the first place is rarely used by most earth eles…Are asking for a video to support why it’s balanced? Anet implemented it thinking it’s balanced. Other people are telling you, it’s balanced. You’re the only one saying it’s not. Prove it to us…why it’s not. Otherwise, it’ll never get a nerf because you’re the only one complaining about it thus far. Seriously, of all the traits to ask for a nerf…you choose stone heart? That alone just destroys any credibility you have.

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Laraley.7695:

Grimreaper.5370:

Okay so you are simply stating stone heart is OP on paper, you have no real evidence of it being an actual issue. This is not how balance changes should be approached, you need to provide evidence.

Have you ever thought about the fact I might have tried playing with it?

Make a video then, provide evidence that stone heart is imbalanced.

After you make a video it’s balanced. Seriously, these arguments, jeez.

What you just said proves that you live to argue even if it’s invalid. When someone suggests a nerf, they should be the one to provide evidence as to why it deserves a nerf. Otherwise…Nerf isn’t happening. Anet designed stone heart knowing it’s balanced. To prove otherwise, show why IT’S NOT. Now thanks for that statement. I know you just argue for the sake of arguing now. It’s clear as day.

Supreme.3164:

Lettuce.2945:

Supreme.3164:

Lettuce.2945:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.

You’re telling me that you’re fighting a bunker for 5m with a burst class on a point?…
Sorry where the high end pvp scenery starts? Thieves and rangers LB do exactly what they’re supposed to do and they do it well…ever heard about +1 fights?..guess you didn’t ‘cause you still go and 1vs1 a bunker at far for 5m, can’t believe that you’re still going with your baseless claims…

Ele doesn’t fight back for 5m? Thief can’t dps ele?..will you just stop with this absurd crap? Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously while you’re blowing things off like this?

This is from a dueling standpoint. I’m a hardcore duelist. You’ve seen our servers quite often. We even held a gambling server a few times. When I say high end pvp, it’s from a skill standpoint. Perhaps you should have asked me to clarify before spewing garbage. Eles are even stronger in team fights. Did you or did you not watch the double ele abjured comp last ESL?

The question is..are you on the same level of Phantaram?Wakkey?
If the best soccer team wins a major tournament with a 3-4-3 , it doesn’t mean that any team can win using the same set up

Can you prove it that every team that uses 2 eles gain an unfair advantage? No..you can’t! Yours is an assumption, a ridiculous assumption based on the best team in gw2

Eles are even stronger during teamfight?When you get focused by decent players?…just against who are you playing?

Who knows? Quite possibly. And yeah, eles are even stronger during team fights, especially if they provide healing for each other and boons. I thought that much was obvious? Anyways, I’m done arguing. I’ll let anet decide who to listen to. Cry for a nerf, and you might just kill the class if they listen to every nerf you ask for. What I’m trying to do here is to suggest REASONABLE nerfs, instead of baseless nerfs that just renders the class useless.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Grimreaper.5370:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.

The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.

As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.

And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.

Shadow’s embrace got nerfed. It no longer removes blinds. So let’s say, a thief decides to steal + backstab, and he gets blinded, the backstab misses so does the mug because of the blind proc from BA and flame legion. So when mug misses, he can’t leech health. Or let’s say a thief pops basil venom then goes in stealth but ele blinds him, he has to either wait out the long blind, allowing the ele to regain cooldowns…or miss a basil proc intentionally to remove blinds. Thieves don’t have countless ways to deal with blind. They have 2. That’s to intentionally hit them and miss or wait it out. Again, this is from a high level pvp standpoint. So keep that in mind as you’re attempting to argue with me and grim. K? K.

Of course we can’t have a game where thieves can’t kill everyone in 2 seconds straight right? It’s clear that you’re completely biased. And please stop with the “oh I’M PLAYING HIGH LEVEL PVP ALL YOU HEATHENS CANNOT JUDGE ME” because not only have you shown being straight up wrong by other players but it also makes all your arguments weaker.

So what if backstab gets countered by blinding ashes? How about you make a S/D build then. Fresh Air eles get super hard countered by any thief spec at all yet you don’t see them complaining about it. A single spec can’t OMFGOWN every other class and spec in the game. You’ll just have to deal with that.

I’m going to assume you’re average if you think I haven’t tried d/p s/d vs said ele build. And how many times do I have to say I main ele? Right now, eles can OMFGOWN every spec in this game or force a tie 1 v 1 wise. Ele is king.

Supreme.3164:

Lettuce.2945:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lettuce.2945:

Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.

But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.

Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.

I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.

You’re telling me that you’re fighting a bunker for 5m with a burst class on a point?…
Sorry where the high end pvp scenery starts? Thieves and rangers LB do exactly what they’re supposed to do and they do it well…ever heard about +1 fights?..guess you didn’t ‘cause you still go and 1vs1 a bunker at far for 5m, can’t believe that you’re still going with your baseless claims…

Ele doesn’t fight back for 5m? Thief can’t dps ele?..will you just stop with this absurd crap? Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously while you’re blowing things off like this?

This is from a dueling standpoint. I’m a hardcore duelist. You’ve seen our servers quite often. We even held a gambling server a few times. When I say high end pvp, it’s from a skill standpoint. Perhaps you should have asked me to clarify before spewing garbage. Eles are even stronger in team fights. Did you or did you not watch the double ele abjured comp last ESL?