Guild Wars 2

With the incoming changes to Town clothing being allI have a few questions. Question one, for those of us who bought multiple of the same item such as the Khaki Shorts, and other outfits, will they all be transformed into tonics, or is it going to be infinite withdraw from the wardrobe.(in this case having whatever multiple of said town clothing becomes redundant?) If that’s the case is there going to be a chance fore refund?

Second question, will these tonics allow you to hide the certain pieces?, and will there be any hope of mix and matching?(for original single pieces and sets of town clothing.) Also will these tonics be timed to wear off and put on a CD like the Watchwork Tonic?

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how this could fit into a complete build really.

Anyone have ideas yet?

3k hp is nice, but it’s about the complete picture.

I see people saying they use full honor tree without shouts… what are you doing then?

I’m just curious, some are saying they see it as something really good, what are you seeing that the rest of us aren’t? What is the build and direction you see it going?

Everything I can think of by simply going through the honor tree will solve the issues where guardian needs more health /shrug.

It fits, it’s decent, it just gives others who run more selfish builds a option. Honor is good for sustain/survivablity.I know i grab Superior Aria in the line because i run Save yourselves. If you want Selfless Daring, and Vigor. Two handed Weapon CD trait is also good for those who run GS, or Hammer.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Lucentfir.7430:

Snip

All those virtue effects also benefit yourself, but as with honor their primary usage is in support. Not to mention you ironically mentioned more pure-support traits than survivability in honor, and -fyi- increasing the survivability of your allies is still support.
Saying honor is more about survivability is like saying healers in mmorpgs are more about survivability than support because they can heal themselves.

Honor is Survival/Support line., Virtues is a Pure Support Line.
Honor=Vitality+Healing Power=Grounds of Survival
Virtues=Reduced Virtue Cooldows+Boon Duration=Pure Support

Most think primarily support because trait access to reduced shouts and PoV, which translates to support. Selfless Daring is good for solo, and Vigorous precision is good for more dodge, which is also good solo. The fact the honor line provides sustain which also benefits allies=sustain and support tied into one.

The trait line is also geared towards Symbols(Symbol-Larger/Longer/Heal) which are dual benefit for Support and AoE damage/Coverage/Healing(writ of the merciful). Not everyone plays Support bunker. Many a times if you do go down honor, there’s no reason to put 30 in full, because the Grandmasters are geared toward Support/shouts. What Anet did here was give a option for more survivablity(3k HP means more room for errors, or recovery) for selfish builds, that don’t use shouts or only use one. It’s for Duelers and roamers is wvw. It makes sense in the line, because it gives more Vitality, on top of the 300 you gain just by going 30 into honor any other line it wouldn’t make sense. Also this isn’t the only grandmaster we’re gettingWe’re getting 4 more. :/

Bash.7291:

Lucentfir.7430:

Edit: AGAIN…Honor is not a support line, it’s a survival line. Support line is Virtues.

Uh…
larger symbols = more chance for boons on party
longer symbols = more boons for party
symbol healing = heals both you and allies
Selfless daring = heals for you and allies
EM = might for you and allies
Pure of voice = condition removal for you, and allies
Shout cooldown= more boons, for you and allies
Battle presence = does NOTHING for the guardian, but gives passive aoe healing to allies.

Notice how almost every single trait in the line helps everyone? Both virtues AND honor are support lines.

The survivability line is valor, with things like meditation healing, AH, Extra toughness, more aegis (minor traits) toughness with shield, Purity.

Supporting with boons is a guardian mechanic.

Vigorous Precision- Vigor on Crit(More dodges=More Survivablity)
Selfless Daring- Heal on dodge roll (Heals you and allies=more survivablity and support)
Larger Symbol/Longer Symbols- More support true but also has the benefit of covering more Area for pulse ticks, and a additional tick or two.
Symbol healing(Writ of the Merciful)- More Healing for symbol builds, to stack with Regen and VoR, still considered Survival and support.
EM- Support not going to argue.
Superior Aria- For shout builds, which are inherently support abilities by nature. Boons=more survival(Protection, Regen, Stability, Vigor)
Pure of Voice=Support, no matter how you look at it it’s a support grandmaster(with condition conversion for shout builds.)
Battle Presence- Support again, though passing along VoR passive to your allies which increases survivablity of allies.

If you want to get technical Honor is a Survival/Support line, with the most benefit for survival. You get Vitality, and healing power, which both boost survivablity. People who say the new trait doesn’t make sense don’t know it actually does make sense in the line, it’s just a plain/boring selfish trait .

Virtues is a pure support line.

Inspired Virtues- Boons to you and your allies when you activate a virtue (Might, Regen, Protection)
Virtue or Retribution-Retaliation on Virtue activation
Master of Consecrations- Cooldowns on consecrations, and they last longer.
Indomitable Courage-Stability on VoC use.
Absolute Resolution- Improved VoR, and removes 3 Conditions from allies around you
Shielded Mind- Stunbreak on VoC
Elite Focus- This one is a toss up to be honest(no one really uses this aside from a zergling guard maybe) more duration on Tomes, Tome of Wrath for Offensive Support, Tome of Courage for Defensive support.

Virtue Recharge- Boon Duration points.
^ That’s all about support.

Edit: Also Valor is a Survival line? It’s a DPS/Survival line.
Meditation- Selfish survival burst healing, with DPS attached to it (Smite Condition, JI)
AH- Selfish Boon Healing
Defender’s Flame- DPS through burning on blacks
Focused Mind- Improved burst capabilites with fury access
Retributive Armor- more precision=more crit procs

It’s for people that don’t want to get blown up in a instant against condition damage, such as meditation builds. who run one to no shouts. PVE it’s trash, Spvp is meh, you’re bunker if you want to be comptative so PoV is better. WvW zerging Pure of voice, WvW solo roaming and dueling it has it’s uses.

Edit: AGAIN…Honor is not a support line, it’s a survival line. Support line is Virtues.

Want to make it a little better add -condition duration(10-20% sounds reasonable) to the 3k health trait, or make it active mitigation meaning you’d have to do things to have that -condition duration.

Tbh i think it’s a okay trait. it may be boring and very plain, but we have 4 other new grandmasters we don’t know about, and we don’t know what other traits they’re changing. Before I’d have no reason to spec 30 in Honor when running a DPS meditation build, but with this I will. Either a toss up between virtue activation boons, or 3k free health for me.

Edit: Also Honor isn’t a support line, Honor is a survival line, with symbol traits and enhancing shouts. The two grandmasters in honor are just support based, Force of Will will be more of a selfish trait for roamers and duelers. The Support line is Virtues, i mean look at the minors!?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

I will say this, I don’t play a bunker play style I play a Damage hybrid spec, that is all i will say, and how I’m finding it good.

Necros don’t have issues with damage. We aren’t at the top of the various classes, but we get the job done. They do have issues in PvE (what necros are great at isn’t useful in PvE) and on the defensive front, though. They are probably the worst class for sustain, which is sad, considering they are supposed to be the attrition profession.

Which is where life leech is pretty good in the build I run. More damage and the benefit of sustain with that damage, and DS+Piles of soft CC. Not to mention lingering damage from conditions.

I will say this, I don’t play a bunker play style I play a Damage hybrid spec, that is all i will say, and how I’m finding it good.

The LS takes place a year later after Zhaitan’s defeat.

@Drarnor Then play a thief life leech thief, you think it’s miles better then. Steal is entirely dependent on the class you’re playing against, (and are quite frankly hard to hit on moving opponents aside from the fear stolen from necro. Siphons that are missed on a thief are more crippling to their build, because kitten on venoms untraited? Where’s your damage going to come from? Forever dodge? +15 points in Acrobatics? 20 points in Shadow arts for leeching venoms?35 points right there. Carrying . Where’s your sustain going to be coming from, where’s your condition removal? You pick Sig of Malice and you won’t have evade on Withdraw. Take roll for initiative, One slot used, take spider venom, that’s a second slot used. third slot? Whatever you say it is.

So this is what you bar is going to look like?

Heal-Signet of Malice/Withdraw
Slot 1- Roll for Initiative(60s/Stunbreak)
Slot 2-Shadow Step?(60s/Stunbreak)
Slot 3 -Venom Skill(45s)
Elite-Basilisk Venom(45s)

I don’t see a weapon skill in Theif’s kitten nal that does life leech, compared to necro’s dagger, a signet designed to leech. Take venoms and you’ll lack stunbreakers(if you want RfI go ahead and take it for it’s 60s cd) you’re going to be doing much of nothing with the build you proposed,(no sustain, very very poor condition removal, lack of good stunbreaks, bad damage. situational CC, low HP, No direct damage mitigation.)

Enlighten me, and show me a good Vampire Thief build, and how it would work against real people that have at least mild knowledge of the game. and not AI opponents. Otherwise you’re just cherry picking for your arguments to say why Life leech on thief is vastly superior to life leech on necro.

The disengaging part, if a thief tries to leave they either blow all their initiative to get away, or they use Shadow Step. They have kitten poor movement speed without signet, or Consistent Swiftness Access(Dodge roll swiftness does not count), or Fleet of Shadows while in stealth.

Necro is better already better and leaching then a majority of the professions by far.

@LastDay I use Sigils, runes and food, and it all adds up decently. Food Life Steal food isn’t effected by healing power, but Vamp signet, and Sigil of Blood are. Life Siphon is great when you need more HP(More procs with Blood Sigil, Food, and Vamperisim even with the ICD)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Also someone saying a lifesteal build for thief is better than Necro life leech?The only realistic way life leech thief would be possible is if they built for venoms(Most of them on a kitten CD) which is mainly played for as a support build. Thieves won’t have any way to help mitigate damage to sustain with that leech(lowest Base HP, and no protection, DS, or blocks, or control Conditions/CC), and there’s Cooldown for your traited leeches(however long the CD is on Venoms) So i don’t think it would be better than a necro who was built to leech.

Consider the following: Leeching Venoms gives a base heal of 325+20% of Healing Power. At the minimum 200 healing power to get the trait, that is 345 healing (and at least 350 damage) per venom hit. That means to equal the healing from a single venom stack, a necro with Vampiric must successfully hit 11 times.

The lowest number of charges a non-elite venom has is 2, so by activating one skill and hitting twice, you get 22 times the effect of necro life stealing from traits.

Spider Venom alone lets the thief siphon the same amount of health kitten hits from Vampiric. If a necro can even land 55 hits in that 45 second time period, he’s doing well, but a thief can boost those numbers drastically by investing in healing power or equipping more venoms, or just traiting venoms further.

Thieves do, however, have excellent access to control conditions (much like necros) and tons of evades plus stealth access. Having less base health is a weakness, but they have superior methods of not getting hit in the first place (which is better than reducing the damage taken) as well as being capable of restoring their health far faster.

So yes, Thieves can create better siphon builds than necros can. One trait and Spider Venom is all that’s necessary to out-do a necro, and they have significantly further that they can boost it. Each additional trait for venoms increases the ability much further than each additional siphoning trait.

Again Vampiric by itself is terriable, you have to combine it with other things to make it potent(Runes/Food/Sigils/Weapons), Theives don’t have tons of evades unless you’re running D/D, S/D or SB. Venoms are easily expended/negated by blocks blinds and dodge(So it’s possible to not get a tick of leech at all while consuming the charges). Control conditions, i mean initiate wise such on weapon sets, and profession mechanics (DS, for necro).

Necro will be able to sustain better then Thief since it has they have DS, which can absorb blows. On paper it appears that way, but in practice it plays out a whole lot differently.

Ah, no matter what class I’m off and about playing and discovering, I love my guardians to death. Guardian will always be my main profession, and that won’t ever change. Purely balanced, and very fun to play.

<3 Guardian

zapv.8051:

Lucentfir.7430:

First bolded why are you using theives as a basis mobility, when THeives are supposed to be slippery, and warriors are mobile melee tanks(Atm with GS). If you want mobility lose it’d be only fair to take away some of the soft CC necros possess to balance it out.

Life leech by Itself is blantly terrible true, but if there’s one thing I’ve known in this game, it’s that you have to combine and mix things. the all the little things add up to make a big impact. Life leech would be way too strong if they buffed it significantly, since it ignores armor and protection, and gives you the benefit of heal for the damage caused.

Second bolded, you’re kinda unclear here, not making a lot of sense. I’ve tested my build and it works splendidly, in a bunch of duels, and Necro’s main weakness is CC chain(Warrior is the culprit with hammer and/or mace/shield), and at least for me, Zerker phantasm mesmers to a certain extent. I’d say you’re ignorant though, i don’t know how much exploring you’ve done, but I know i’ve explored and tested a lot of runes, sigils, gear and trait setups, to get a good build of life leech for me. Also i recall seeing Chapman’s post playing a Leech necro, not sure what game mode, but he probabaly has found something that works nicely for him like I have :P

As far as being as mobile as thieves, I’m illustrating a point. Giving necros a short range teleport isn’t going to make them as mobile as other classes, but it will give them at least a real mobility skills which they sorely lack now.

You said it yourself, life leech is blatantly terrible. My second point was that necros have to put themselves in harms way to get 80hps while out of death shroud. They must be in range and attacking to get that dps and hps. That requires investment in 3 traits and 20 points into blood magic. Other classes get 100hps or more on much less stringent conditions. I think of backpack regenerator or adrenal health as examples where both of those are one simple trait. Some would argue that it’s also 80dps but 80dps is a really low addition when other classes get 20% damage boosts to their weapons sets. Simply put when comparing life siphoning to other similar skills it is bad. Other classes get better healing traits and better damage traits for less investment.

Also, I have gone through armor sets and builds with knights, soldiers, zerkers, rabid, carrion, clerics, dire and rampagers on my necro. I still own 6 armor sets, and have tried many times in wvw, and pve to make vampiric builds work. The problem is, without food it’s a waste. With food you don’t even need to be a necromancer to make it work. If life siphons are going to be a necromancer feature, they need to make it a feature instead of leaving it in the currently horrendous state it is in.

You misundersstand, I said life leech Is terrible by itself. The Damage portion of life leech is powerful supplement damage, that comes with the benefit of sustain. Also at least 15 in blood magic is needed for a decent life leech build(20% more Siphoning and on hit leech in small doses. Vampiric Precision isn’t needed unless you’re determined to just have every bit you can get your hands on. Also the per hit leech, is also effective for AoE and bounce abilities. Backpack Regenerator restricts you to using kits and it’s purely passive(It hinders flow because it requires you to be in a kit, so if you wanted to use rifle or pistol skills you would lose it)

Also someone saying a lifesteal build for thief is better than Necro life leech?The only realistic way life leech thief would be possible is if they built for venoms(Most of them on a kitten CD) which is mainly played for as a support build. Thieves won’t have any way to help mitigate damage to sustain with that leech(lowest Base HP, and no protection, DS, or blocks, or control Conditions/CC), and there’s Cooldown for your traited leeches(however long the CD is on Venoms) So i don’t think it would be better than a necro who was built to leech.

I’m all for buffing necro leeching, just only buffing it mildly, but not outrageously over the top.(100 hp per hit on blood magic 15 point minor would be stupid powerful) You want more mobility go ahead, just tone down their control condition output a bit to balance it out. Healing in DS would be nice but only by a small percentage of the heal of the whole amount you heal for, with how easy it is to regain life force.

Muchacho.2390:

Lucentfir.7430:

Tbh Necros are already scary when you’re a melee based character a condition spam engineer. Giving them mobility or a bag full of stability would be over the top. I’d agree with maybe one or two skills giving short term mobility (3-4 sec). ecro already has great boon contol, and has a crap ton of control effects, and condition transfers. necro might not be mobile, but it’s dangerous if you face a well built/ well played one(unless you’re a well played warrior running zerkerstance, melandru runes, and lemongrass food).

Also Life leech is powerful(I run a build around leeching), it’s just not OP, where people can face roll heal and win. And Healing through Death shourd would be nice, I would prefer at least 10%-20% maximum to allow healing in Death Shroud. necros are great, just need to explore more into it more. Faceroll Condition builds are the norm when facing stance hammer warriors who are equally faceroll with hammer or mace.

Only melee necros need probably a better mobility but saying life leech is powerful is a bad joke. Until they allow the life leech traits to work in ds (well technically they work but you dont get the heals) , they will continue to suck and even then, i am not sure if it will be enough.
I mean what kind of game design is it that allows one class mechanic to negate a other more ore less class mechanic…

And since when are condi engies melee based?

That’s a typo, going to fix it up. Also it is powerful, if you mix it with other things, but by itself nope.

zapv.8051:

Lucentfir.7430:

Tbh Necros are already scary when you’re a melee based character a condition spam engineer. Giving them mobility or a bag full of stability would be over the top. I’d agree with maybe one or two skills giving short term mobility (3-4 sec). ecro already has great boon contol, and has a crap ton of control effects, and condition transfers. necro might not be mobile, but it’s dangerous if you face a well built/ well played one(unless you’re a well played warrior running zerkerstance, melandru runes, and lemongrass food).

Also Life leech is powerful(I run a build around leeching), it’s just not OP, where people can face roll heal and win. And Healing through Death shourd would be nice, I would prefer at least 10%-20% maximum to allow healing in Death Shroud. necros are great, just need to explore more into it more. Faceroll Condition builds are the norm when facing stance hammer warriors who are equally faceroll with hammer or mace.

I don’t think one movement skill is going to put necros anywhere close to warriors, or thieves.

Your second point shows how little knowledge you have about the class. Life steel is blatantly terrible. Vampiric and Vampiric precision are literally 80 health per second for hitting a foe. That means you must be actively putting yourself in harms way to do 80 damage per second. Two complete tanks, with zero stats in power would do more damage than that to you.

First bolded why are you using theives as a basis mobility, when THeives are supposed to be slippery, and warriors are mobile melee tanks(Atm with GS). If you want mobility lose it’d be only fair to take away some of the soft CC necros possess to balance it out.

Life leech by Itself is blantly terrible true, but if there’s one thing I’ve known in this game, it’s that you have to combine and mix things. the all the little things add up to make a big impact. Life leech would be way too strong if they buffed it significantly, since it ignores armor and protection, and gives you the benefit of heal for the damage caused.

Second bolded, you’re kinda unclear here, not making a lot of sense. I’ve tested my build and it works splendidly, in a bunch of duels, and Necro’s main weakness is CC chain(Warrior is the culprit with hammer and/or mace/shield), and at least for me, Zerker phantasm mesmers to a certain extent. I’d say you’re ignorant though, i don’t know how much exploring you’ve done, but I know i’ve explored and tested a lot of runes, sigils, gear and trait setups, to get a good build of life leech for me. Also i recall seeing Chapman’s post playing a Leech necro, not sure what game mode, but he probabaly has found something that works nicely for him like I have :P

1v1 situations on my warrior, I’ve met people who can kill my warrior(Skilled people who know their class most of the time) Play against a decent necro and you’ll find yourself thumped, because your conditions get transfered back to you. I’ve been running a similar build for quite sometime now. Good Stealth Power Phantasm Mesmers, will also give you a run for your money.

Tbh Necros are already scary when you’re a melee based character, or a condition spam engineer(Condition flips). Giving them mobility or a bag full of stability would be over the top. I’d agree with maybe one or two skills giving short term mobility (3-4 sec). ecro already has great boon contol, and has a crap ton of control effects, and condition transfers. necro might not be mobile, but can be dangerous if you face a well built/ well played one(unless you’re a well played warrior running zerkerstance, melandru runes, and lemongrass food).

Also Life leech is powerful(I run a build around leeching), it’s just not OP, where people can face roll heal and win. And Healing through Death shourd would be nice, I would prefer at least 10%-20% maximum to allow healing in Death Shroud. necros are great, just need to explore more into it more. Faceroll Condition builds are the norm when facing stance hammer warriors who are equally faceroll with hammer or mace.

Amins.3710:

Stability is not necessary for small roaming and getting stomps.

As Buran stated, and to add a few others:

- Aegis Stomp
- Blind Stomp
- Banish + JI Stomp
- Focus Stomp (block)

…. there’s 4, just off the top of my head.

Mediation w/ Rune Speed + Sword/Focus + GS – > Ton’s of mobility.

You will become a master ambient finder. And if you don’t, you’ll continue to die.

Lucentfir is correct in one aspect though: Fighting 1v2’s against equally skilled players is not going to result in positive outcomes, more often than not.

I made a typo xD on the stability part. it isn’t necessary to have stability for roaming, the two stunbreakers should be enough to get you out of most sticky stun situations.

Razor.6392:

Lucentfir.7430:

Razor.6392:

TheSwede.9512:

Compare to the Elementalist Trait which also Increases Damage to Bleeding targets as well.

There’s your answer.

Rofl.

CONDI ELE SO OP MANG

MUST HAVE TRAIT 10/10 WOULD GO 30 IN EARTH

Post like this lead me to believe soon enough Ele players, will have the old Warrior attitude, that the warrior sub forum had. The cycle is repeating itself.

How so, mr. heavy player? Condition elementalist isn’t remotely viable, not even in pve. I found it laughable how that warrior fanboy brought up that random trait in his defense as if it was supposed to mean anything, or as if any decent ele used it.

Edit: just noticed that he also called necro’s fear a “dot”.

Well the posting style is what makes me say this, reminds me when Warriors were underpowered compared to the other classes. It’s already known Condition elementalist isn’t optimal, and I’ve infact tried out a condition based Ele with Dire and Carrion with 30 in earth(I switched afterwards to something more bursty damage). I think the point he was trying to get to was there was a additional effect attached to the bleed trait. As far as Fear goes with necro, if they Have Terror int heir specs it basically turns Fear into another DoT

Razor.6392:

TheSwede.9512:

Compare to the Elementalist Trait which also Increases Damage to Bleeding targets as well.

There’s your answer.

Rofl.

CONDI ELE SO OP MANG

MUST HAVE TRAIT 10/10 WOULD GO 30 IN EARTH

Post like this lead me to believe soon enough Ele players, will have the old Warrior attitude, that the warrior sub forum had. The cycle is repeating itself.

Compared to other skills, Warrior’s only Sources of bleeds come from sword 1, Rifle 1, and LB 5 and on crit minor trait in arms traitline.

I will admit eles have a awful time stacking bleeds, outside of Scepter, but their burning application is one of the best. They lack a third damaging condition, that would make them very potent(i’ve faced eles running perplexity before and it can bet pretty brutal, due to all the healing capablities they have access too, if you’re melee playstyle.) I think the only thing Ele needs to be good for a condition build is for them to get easier access to bleeding, or to speed up the Attack speed on earth autos (Scepter Earth 1, and Dagger, Earth 1) and probably bump up the bleed from 1 stack to three stacks of bleed on Earth Dagger 2

Necros have a crap ton of bleeds in their set and Scepter chain has all damaging conditions tied to it (2 Stacks of Bleeds, and Poison), Scepter two also bleeds, and if you run off hand Dagger Enfeebling blood. At least 5+ in curses on crit bleed stacks. They also have torment tied into DS. Depedning on the build Necros also have burning, and even more damage tied into it when they have Terror.

Most of the bleeds other classes have, have it at ranged, able to apply it safely. Sword bleeds are melee. it all boils down to usability and play in game. Also Confusion access requires 20 in strength so you’ll either be sacrificing off-hand sword for Sheild(Lose torment for Shield stance, and Shield Bash for Confusion application), or you’ll be sacrificing Longbow, so you can use hammer. Either way you’ll lose out on condition application

Hambow- Confusion, Burning, 6 Stack of bleeds(not reliable and only one time stacking) (No Torment, no good stacking bleed ramp ups)

S+Sh/LB- Bleeds(reliable stacking),Burning, Confusion(1 time access with shield bash that requires interrupt) (Not worth the 20 point investment for confusion, no torment),

Hammer/ S+Sh- Bleeds(reliable application), Confusion(decent application through interrupts), (no torment, no burning,)

Hammer/ Dual Sword – Bleeds(Reliable Application), Torment, Confusion(Hammer Interrupts only unless you take Physical utilites or rampage) (No burning)

Stability isn’t exactly necessary, for all builds, but two stunbreakers should be enough unless you’re facing two ham warriors, or dedicated CC builds. Most of the time in 1v2s when i encounter something like this if you know the enemy doesn’t have much access to CC or has already used them up. Check your HP and make sure you have enough for the stomp(pop virtues too like courage to deny single hit CC, and gain protection if you have 5 in virtues), if not either beat the downed with autos and other skills or pressure the next person. If the other guy tries to rez then, it’s a opportune time to cleave and DPS them both, if you have High DPS is should be really high pressure. Though note, if you’re 1v2ing people that play decently, or are around your skill level you won’t win those encounters.

Edit; Fixed typo

Flissy.4093:

Warriors are dependent on bleeds for condition damage. They have very limited access to other conditions, so to make things fair the Warrior’s “only” condition is buffed.

I don’t see why you can scream OP in comparison to a Necro – Put a condition Necro against a condition Warrior of equal skill and the Necro will win all day long.

^This, a pure Condi Warrior will get wrecked by a necro as long as they aren’t really bad. Just transfer all those bleed stacks back at the warrior and watch him fall apart. I’ve had it done to me before in the past.

coglin.1867:

insanemaniac.2456:

no. not worth my time.

suffice to say, you arent looking at what people actually use. an across the board comparison is not applicable. as an example, saying 100 power = 11.7% rifle dps increase is pure ********

Interesting. It is not worth your time to offer a fact….that suggest you are aware that your speaking out of perception and not reality. As far as your accusation about whether or not I am looking at what people are saying, why would I listen to what they are saying when most of them are doing as you do, and basing statements on assumption and not actual facts. And if my numbers are wrong about rifle, I challenge you to post your damage numbers of the 4 rifle skills that do damage, before and after the +100 power food. If you like, I will assist you in the math to turn your findings to a percentage. Your logic process is interesting though. I offer you a fact, you retort with a profanity. That doesn’t aid your argument much.

Lucentfir on the other hand offers some reason to a perspective. The flip side to what your saying Lucentfir, is when a power builds uses the odd condition they have on weapons here and there, or other applications with with sigils or runes to bury cripples, chills, immobilizes, and vulnerability to to make you unable to escape some of their ridiculously hard hitting direct damage attacks. Just pointing out that to a certain extent, that it works both ways.

*To be honest though, as I see it, the “covering conditions” argument doesn’t mean much, because with +50% duration, the conditions have to stay on the entire time to even come close to the damage of direct damage builds. *

The only time power builds dish out ridiculous damage is they’re packing Zerker gear. Packing some zerker gear means they gave up some defense for more offense meaning they’re much squishier. CC conditions on melee classes are needed to keep up with Kiters, if melee classes did not have any sort of Soft CC/snare, or very limited access to it (cough Guardian) you would be kited around to no end.

The arguement about the cover conditions. Cover conditions protect the damaging conditions so they aren’t cleared off as easy, the longer they last the more difficult it is to clear off something like poison…or burning, 10 stacks of bleeds. Not only that but most soft CC cover conditions will impair your ability to pressure the person hitting you with conditions.

On a full Condi damage build

Bleeds: 127.5 per stack with 1700 Condition damage(1s Tick stacking intensity)
Poison: well over 254 with 1700 Condition damage (1s Tick)
Burning: 753 per tick with 1700 Condition Damage(1s Tick)
(not going to include the others just the the most easily accessed )

50% Duration increase across all conditions is a huge buff in it’s damage, and control. And a stack of these easy to apply damaging conditions can add up to 2k a second just make sure you tag them with it and forget about it. Players are not AI mobs with Vet or champion health. The norm is 20k+ damage you have to do.

Now Power builds, you have to be consistently hitting your target to get the damage in, and for every second you don’’t hit, the DPS you inflicted shrinks(Passive Regen, or low CD heal) in actually pvp scene it’s common for people to kite or avoid heavy hits, and the only way to get those hits in is if you keep up with them through Soft CC and such, and a pure power build you will shrug of most of the damage if you’re good it does if you’re good. Lets not forget to mention sacrificing between defensive stats and offensive stats., The only counter to conditions is to remove them, but most removes have a somewhat lengthy CD. And whatever -Condition duration and passive regen can allow.

Tim.6450:

I find it funny that people can find a adept +50% bleed duration trait in a condition trait line, the most normal thing in the world while +40% condition food is one of the most hated things in the community.

As an extra illustration: those 10 trait points spend are less then 2 sigils and six runes from a bleed build point of view. (take sigil of accuracy and earth, 2* runes of the centaur, 2* runes of the afflicted and 2* runes of the krait).

40% across all conditions compared to 50% on one condition. Also Adept trait comparing to food. Necro and Engi condition overload :/. Runes are also being changed so you can’t mix and match them as effectively(You’ll probabaly be able to mix and match still, just more limited options.)

@Colglin- here’s a thing though play a soldier’s power based build vs a Condi Dire build with 40% Condi duration (50% if you take Toxic Sharpening stone, Focus Crystal, or maintenance oil) duration increase on all conditions means long lasting cover conditions, higher stacks on stacking damage conditions, and longer damage tick time on duration damage conditions. Power builds get mitigated by : Protection, Dodges(if you have conditions on you, you’ll still have the damage ticking), Weakness, and Armor. Conditions eat through tougness(no effect), and the only way to keep up with condi application is to get condition removal (which has medium to high CD), And you have to reliably hit to get your damage in on power builds, which usually requires setup…..Then we look at Condition based builds again and see how easy it is to reapply the conditions again.

Redscope.6215:

Black Box.9312:

The way I see it is that it’s really more the principle than anything else. Things like this and Dogged March just give the impression that warriors are supposed to have easier access to skill and trait modifications than other classes, which leaves them more room to incorporate more different elements into a given build.

There’s a big difference between having a class that’s easy to learn and a class that’s easy to excel with, and Anet seems to be unaware of this when it comes to their balancing of the warrior.

Their addition of Dogged March is a shining example of how they misunderstood the issue, and continue to.

The problem with balance is ranged condi application and kiting. Its an issue that permeates GW2, yet they considered it to be a warrior-only issue. So they gave the war tools to combat condis (Cleansing Ire and Dogged March) while leaving everyone else in the stagnate pool of ‘kite+condi or die’.

What they should do is remove the regen from DM, remove the adrenaline on hit of CI, and allow Vitality (the stat, not the base HP) to combat incoming condition damage in a way similar to Toughness.

Reasoning: burst condi removal is good. Burst condi removal with an OP method of generating Adrenaline is bad. Duration reduction of cc condi application is good. Reduction of soft-cc with an unneeded increase in survivability is bad.

TBH idk, i think Cleansing Ire, Adrenaline gain is good where it is. it used to be it’s own trait before. When you play a melee class,, how will you make use of Cleansing Ire when you can’t hit anything with the absurd amount of Lockdown conditions. There’s also the condition that you have to hit your burst to clear conditions too, so anything that isn’t Hammer or LB gets screwed over. I would not mind the removal of Regen on dogged march.

CptAurellian.9537:

xFireize.6318:

Someone posted this ~5 hours ago and got deleted.

There were at least two threads here, as well as a bunch on the other class forums.

For the changes … well, nothing I’d care about. Torch stays useless unless they massively increase #5’s DPS, Zeal is not worth going into for more than II and VII and EM might become a funny gimmick, but nothing else. 5 seconds duration and 240 radius aren’t worth 20 points in Honor, unfortunately.

In PVE it’s not that effective true, however in WvW for roaming, and duels Torch is very very good for DPS builds. Torch 5 Damage is situational effective, like when someone is kiting you and you’re not that much in range yet to hit them with sword or mace. Also helpful for those D/P theives that think you’ll come into Black Powder(blind field) to hit them.

Edit:

Harbinger.8637:

Torch is subpar in PvE because Cleansing Flame is a dps loss for the most part. However PvP/WvW is a different story. Zealot’s Flame hits extremely hard and fast, it’s great for spike damage. Cleansing Flame does decent damage, and now they are making it even more viable with the condition removing. Another thing people fail to realize is the short CDs torch has even untraited.

^this pretty much.

If these proposed changes to give Retalation a ICD is a possible thought or change that could be made soon, you better buff up the scaling, and buff up the base to compensate. it’s already pretty weak outside of zerging, and nerfing it by giving it a ICD without compensation would make this boon pretty useless. Doing a % of damage dealt to you would be OP(This is better for a unique utility skill).

just a quick add in here, but on top of the nerf to Retaliation Damage (33%) it was also nerfed in stacks and was only allowed to be stacked up to 5 times.

Ryld.1340:

So why exactly are you complaining? You know for a fact then that Ele needs the vigor trait more then Mesmer/Guardian.

I have no idea what specific game modes most of your posts are reffering to but perhaps post which game types you’re referring too, if you plan to post after this one?

@Ryld- Just because eles need vigor atm does not mean it would need it more then a guardian or mesmer(maybe, I don’t play mesmer), vigor for guardian is what makes the guardian sustainable through selfless daring, and he kind of needs to dodge, a lot.

@Kyon- Most eles will always put 30 in Arcana for the boon duration, Evasive Arcana and the boon pumping with attunement swap(D/D, Staff support), and you use warrior as a comparison even though he doesn’t have access to protection :|

@Ozii – i’m not going to argue about the trait anymore, but I will say it’s really not a critical choice, for a 10 point trait, you’ll either pick up Blasting Staff, or Renewing stamina(Staff builds), but other builds would probably just pick up Renewing Stamina anyways(unless it’s full Arcane Build). Though point is proven, let’s ust leave Renewing stamina alone.

@Anyone else saying Guardians have blocks.
We have blocks because we have lowest HP, and poor mobility, almost no access to soft CC. All of our blocks only block one hit (Except for Shelter(30 sec on heal 2 second duration) and Focus5(3 hit-kitten CD) And the CDs on are blocks are 30-90s. So yeah…Guardians kind of need vigor like ele does to survive. (outside of the Spvp)

@Mblech it wasn’t aout helping guardian in the first place, it was about vigor access on classes, and why ele got to keep their’s unchanged despite their multiple access to vigor. My intentions aren’t to nerf ele, but merely a question why they got to keep it..

Also in this thread, this kind of reminds me about the Warrior’s HS and how it’s what’s keeping them afloat.

/end of thread for me(most likely).

Well just be glad you’ve never came across rabbits that have levels…

oZii.2864:

Lucentfir.7430:

I find it funny how my post gets called a mindless statement, when it’s a legitimate question. Everyone got touchy and defensive about the subject of ele’s vigor on crit. I asked the question because it was stated by a Dev. Anet wanted to change vigor across the board, because they don’t like permanent vigor in the game. Yet they say that they leave Ele’s vigor intact which contradicts their reasoning .

Let me help you out since you didn’t take the time to Read about you beloved Guardians vigor and EXACTLY what the Devs said.

Karl McLain.5604:

Profession Changes
Guardian:
_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. We’ve also made a few minor adjustments to healing skills to make them more reliable._

• Litany of Wrath: Reduced the cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second.
  • Vigorous Precision: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.**
• Healing Breeze: This ability has been re-scaled so that the guardian receives 50% of the heal near the start of the heal and then heals for 10% for 5 ticks to the caster and up to 5 allies in the cone.

Mesmer:
_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. Based on your feedback, we decided to revert our proposed change to Deceptive Evasion._

• Critical Infusion: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Illusion of Drowning: Changed skill from a multi-hit to a single-hit, increasing damage to compensate.

_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with LOW TRAIT INVESTMENTS

Now does this echo the reasons given in this thread by multiple people on why Renewing stamina is not getting nerfed (Again).

Renewing stamina was nerfed already along time ago. Bountiful thief was nerfed Already. This round it is 5 point trait investment vigor i.e. Guardian and Mesmer.

Are we still going to play victim?

Alright you got me there somewhat, but it’s still stated in the bold, it’s not only 5 point low investment traits, it’s means overall access to vigor. And no one is playing victim lol. Everyone in this thread got as touchy as a warrior player about HS. Again let me make myself clear before someone else decides to think i want Ele nerfed, or their vigor trait nerfed, this was a simple question and about vigor access and comparing it to something that is supposedly getting nerfed. As previous your post states I kind of agree I might of kittened up here and should of made this topic a discussion about Vigor and endurance access in general/Dodging to much. Sorry everyone if this post came off the wrong way.

@Ozii- Also I Play my ele from time to time and explored him a bit and playing The Traditional D/D bunker, to a condi spec, 30 in Arcana, is normally Evasive Arcana, Elemental Attunement, and Renewing Stamina, the only one that really contests for me is Windbourne Daggers if i want 25% movement speed.. Also not lying i do have a Ele

Narei.1643:

A blood/vamp necro in general in this game is very limited , i was excited like you all with the signet in the beginning… however leeching on hit or from hit does not gain more leech with healing power only activating it does. I’m glad someone posted a complaint about this silly healing skill. I would very much like Blood Renewal from GW1 to be brought into GW2 instead of this vamp sig.

Blood Renewal(GW1)-
Enchantment Spell. For 7 seconds, you gain +3…5…6 Health regeneration. When Blood Renewal ends, you gain 40…160…190 Health.

of course scaled into gw2 maybe like…

Blood Renewal – Gain Blood Renewal Buff gains 1% HP regen. When Buff ends, gain ~4-5k- ish HP, 1/4 cast time , 30 sec CD. Going Death Shroud while buff is activated will cancel this effect.

Idea for leeching in general (dagger and vamp sig) – give necros with healing power integrated.. and can nerf how much the activation healing it gives by giving us weakness or something if used.

Vampire Sig complaint- the cast time is kittened. being a vamp build in this game , trying to activate the signet and you miss, “Miss” cool down on the signet and die because you do not have a self casted heal. The healing skill is crap. The leech does nothing much and the activation can be dodged. so someone could kill you easily just by dodging your vamp sig.

The idea i got from gw1 is that a necro has masochistic strategies especially with signets. self inflict to inflict on others.

You still get the heal, but if they dodge it they won’t get the mark over their head. for you to siphon more health. if you’re solely relying on Signet of Vamprisim for your only source of healing, then yes it blows chunks, and you’re better off with CC.

I find it funny how my post gets called a mindless statement, when it’s a legitimate question. Everyone got touchy and defensive about the subject of ele’s vigor on crit. I asked the question because it was stated by a Dev. Anet wanted to change vigor across the board, because they don’t like permanent vigor in the game. Yet they say that they leave Ele’s vigor intact which contradicts their reasoning . This wasn’t a my guard got nerfed so nerf ele post, no where did I even say nerf ele, everyone is just implying and being touchy.

Also getting vigor for 5 points in a mandatory line, yeah we get it for free, but it’s our only access to it out of one utility skill and conversion(PoV or CoP chill to vigor). Now look at ele, they have a crap ton of vigor access, scepter builds have the Phoenix with condi clear(vigor on weapon skills!), Cantrips give regeneration and vigor(They’re reducing AoE’s CD along with Mist Form’s), and other passive trait that increase Endurance regeneration. That is another supporting reason I asked.

My only hope is that when these changes hit, it only hits Spvp, guardians already have enough problems out of Spvp, lack of poor mobility and Soft CC access, making them really easy to kite, or just letting the foe leave when they want too.

@Kyon: Maybe eles should cry “give us the highest armor and low CD boon skills too to make it fair”.

I find this funny, highest armor means nothing unless you’re trying to stack it over 3k, and eles already great access to protection(most D/D eles), lolololololol low CD boon skills(You’re getting the CD reduced on Cantrips anyway upcoming balance patch), even though eles can pump out a lot more boons then a shout guardian already, but okay whatever makes sense.

Dalanor.5387:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Just look at the base values pls.
Even if you heal that much with the active, due to the higher CD of the signet it’s still a hp/s loss.
CC is an overall good heal, even without conditions.
But you can’t be convinienced, roll with signet.

Again, in actual play/combat, it’s better then it appears, the heal is fine for me because it’s not my only source of gaining health back. I’ve been rolling signet for a while now and brought it into duels. The only problems I have are against Thieves and Mesmers zerkers, and some variations of Ele, everything else I can beat with ease with smart play. it has damage utility, light team support, and leech. Let it be clear the build I run is built for roaming/dueling in WvW.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Did you know Blood Fiend also scales with Bloodthirst? Did you know the aftercast on the Signet means you cannot claim more than 4 stacks unless you already have Locust Swarm/WoS/WoC running and hitting your target? Did you know the health/second and DPS from the minion are higher than the signet? Even after armor and protection mitigation, it still has better damage than the mere armor ignoring 26.66 DPS you get from the traited signet. Yes, it really is that low (200 damage/stack, 4 stacks claimed, 28 second cooldown, 1.25 second cast, .75 second aftercast delay for 30 seconds total between uses. 800/30=26.66). The Fiend deals triple that amount with no traits.

And you can never have too many condition removals.

As an aside, both Consume Conditions and Blood Fiend are better against CC-heavy opponents. Consume Conditions because you only have to avoid CC for its cast and not 5 seconds after, Blood Fiend because it doesn’t care what CC gets thrown on you.

You really can’t even build around the signet. The ICD’s kill any potential use it has outside of massive boss event or against flat-out terrible players. Even for its supposed “party support” role, it gets way outdone by Well of Blood,which heals for far more and can be traited to do more than just healing.

I know those facts, and I still find SoV a lot more useful, for the way i play my build. SoV Active damage portion hits for 341 for me, and heals for 568 per strike. it’ll only hit for 200ish if you’re running a build with tons of condition damage with little to no power. And I use most of the lifesteal stuff in my build: Lifesteal Food, Blood Sigil, Leeching stack on heal, SoV active. So I’m not completely reliant on the heal skill to keep me up

The way SoV works for me promotes more okittengressive play style. Comparing Blood Fiend to SoV, Blood Fiend is passive play, and the 900-1000 every 3 sec isn’t anything to to go wow about. If it dies you’re out of a heal for 20s. If you even run Blood Fiend outside of a MM build, you’re setting yourself up for failure by not taking CC.

Well of Blood makes you stationary and again promotes a passive defensive play, which isn’t good for the way my build is played. Plus it would require me to take Wells Reduced cd to not make the CD suck, and 10 in Death magic if I want to slap on a pitiful 3s of protection on well use and a useless minor trait for creating jagged horrors. Traits and Slots that could be used for other useful things.

CC- Good alternate heal if i just want to use it for anti conditions, but requires me to get loaded with conditions if i want to make full use of the heal.
BF-Useless and bad outside of MM Build,
WoB- Good when traited for reduced CD, but makes me stationary if i was to get the most use out of it, and requires allies to stand in the well to get benefit of the skill.
SoV- Good for my build, bad for all the other, promotes a aggressive play on my part,

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blood Fiend stays put once it’s in range, so it’s easy to make it so no AoE or cleave hits you both. On top of that, avoiding Blood Fiend’s attacks entirely require an active defense every 3 seconds it’s up while the signet active requires far less (5 seconds of avoidance every 30 seconds, traited).

Regardless of your build, I can guarantee you would be better off running Blood Fiend or Consume Conditions. SoV is just that bad.

Consume Conditions is just for condition clear, and as i said before blood fiend is better used by Minionmancer/Zookeeper builds. The passive on SoV is okay for me(though I think I would appreciate at least it to heal for 450 health when struck with the 1s ICD) , especially when i combine it with other things, to make it better. I don’t need Consume Condition since I have good transfers. Also tested Blood fiend, and I don’t feel it’s as useful to me as SoV. The Siphon damage on Blood fiend may heal for 900, but it only hits for 200 every 3 seconds. Placing a signet on someone and striking them with dagger AA’s or life siphon generates a lot of life and gives a decent damage boost. Did you know that SoV’s Siphon damage isn’t minigated by armor? And most siphons in general?" Untraited Signet isn’t worth using, but when traited it actually becomes okayish when you build around the skill. Most of the new heals released were made (even though some of them needs tweaking) for niche builds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…

I have Signet traited, so i get it at 28 seconed cooldown with three stacks of might. It has possible damage attached to it(I have to hit them) and heals for about 500ish per hits on a ICD (1s) The passive is alright when you have have things like regen, other lifesteal, Dagger 2. it all adds up. Blood Fiend is useless for my build because it will die to quickly against a good player and you won’t have a heal until it’s off CD, Blood Fiend fits better with a Minion master build since you can trait for it to be more survivable and lower it’s CD.

Untraited Blood Fiend has 20 second cooldown, approximately 16k health, and an average of 300 hp/second (actual healing, not damage mitigation like the signet) that you can continue to gain while kiting while constantly dealing damage. If they focus on the blood fiend, that’s about 16k of “healing” you got from them focusing it down instead of you. Plus, the sacrifice scales twice as well with healing power as the signet. Even in a heavy siphoning build, the blood fiend does better, and since that’s the worst heal we have otherwise…

Again it’s reliant on AI and it doesn’t exactly have good survivability, and the siphon can be dodged. AoE and cleave exist, so it’s not hard to kill the blood fiend and damage you.. I don’t keep SoV for the passive I use it when i need it and when I’m about to AA with dagger. The Siphon Healing from Blood Fiend dows not scale with healing power, and Taste of death may be 1.0 Ratio, but that’s 1k extra healing with 1k healing power. SoV I can heal for much more(with 410 Healing power i heal for 568 per strike) and deal better damage. This stuff is better in practice than math tbh. SoV works for my build best and I’ve built around it, it really does compliment with what I’ve built for, a lot better than blood fiend. Blood Fiend Should stay with MM builds, and Consum Condition for regular cookie cutters, and Wells for support well builds.

Dalanor.5387:

He plays on TC.

Just curious what that’s supposed to mean.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…

I have Signet traited, so i get it at 28 seconed cooldown with three stacks of might. It has possible damage attached to it(I have to hit them) and heals for about 500ish per hits on a ICD (1s) The passive is alright when you have have things like regen, other lifesteal, Dagger 2. it all adds up. Blood Fiend is useless for my build because it will die to quickly against a good player and you won’t have a heal until it’s off CD, Blood Fiend fits better with a Minion master build since you can trait for it to be more survivable and lower it’s CD.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

I’ve actually found purpose for SoV in my build, and it works pretty kitten well for me at least. I’ve made a build revolving around life stealing, and supplement damage. I think it’s alright for right now. The way to survive is being active and to control your opponents(One of the powerful aspects of a Necromancer!) It isn’t for every build, and but it works, people prefer Consume Conditions for the condi clear and greater heal.

You may find Blood Fiend works better for your build. Bloodthirst even works with its attack, and the cooldown is shorter. Provides pretty decent sustain as long as its up, you just have to keep an eye on it.

Blood Fiend is useless for my build, and I don’t like having to depend on AI for my leeching heal, which also can be killed just as easy. I run at least 20 in Blood magic, so I’ve already picked up Blood Thirst. Also i don’t run a faceroll full condition damage build FYI

I’ve actually found purpose for SoV in my build, and it works pretty kitten well for me at least. I’ve made a build revolving around life stealing, and supplement damage. I think it’s alright for right now. The way to survive is being active and to control your opponents(One of the powerful aspects of a Necromancer!) It isn’t for every build, and but it works, people prefer Consume Conditions for the condi clear and greater heal.

@Black Teagan maybe but I’m not comparing nerfs, nor do i want to give the other classes nerfs. Though Theives have stealth(indirect survivablity since you can still be bombed by AoE or predicted) and alot more access to evades and mobility skills, you don’t have other access to vigor and endurance gain(Dagger restores endurance on AA chain, Vigor On heal trait, Feline’s Grace, and Bountiful thief that gives about 10s on Vigor and boon steal)

The point is Ele has a lot of traits and utilities that help with endurance regeneration and access to regeneration to essentially have permanent vigor. To why it’s staying the same is what makes me wonder. The nerf to the five point traits would be justifiable if we had other sources of Endurance Regeneration, but for guardians it is the only trait they have that gives them vigor, outside of a utility skill Save Yourselves, and the randomness condi to boon conversion of PoV and CoP(Chill to Vigor).

-edit- I’m not going to go into mesmer because i don’t know enough aside from built one for Spvp phantasm trolling. I do play WvW as well and I just hope vigor changes roll out only effect Spvp, since Guardians already suffer from lack of things.

-

True though, but i still don’t get how Anet says they don’t like Permanent Vigor in their game, yet they allow it to remain on one class to have such access. From a Guardian main standpoint we stand with ele for lowest HP tier, our ranged weapons are pretty bad. We don’t have good mobility, nor do we have things that let us stick efficiently to other classes well. So we only have pretty good survivability. Bunker guardians won’t probably feel hit to much but the offensive based ones will, and there’s already limited choice builds with Guardian(Meditations/Healway Support/RHS build) the change to guards vigor will make them less survivable, on top of lowest HP, melee based, and already giving up survivability.

Edit: If anything Anet just please make this change split for only Spvp.

Just a quick question…..but why exactly does Ele get to keep their Vigor Trait ICD at 5 seconds, while Guardians and Mesmer(I can understand mesmer a bit) get their vigor nerfed? I just kind of noticed this when i was playing around on my ele. Eles have more than one way to gain vigor, and traits that give them more endurance regeneration. This is not a post about nerfing eles or anything. I’m just curious about this.

I’ve been constantly tweaking a build to work around SoV and I’m actually getting the feel it’s a good heal when traited, most of the new heals are aimed for specialty builds rather then generally good in all builds. Compared to Consusme conditions it looks like a better heal by far. Though i like the face that it gives 3 Stacks of might, (Signet trait) and a siphon heal. Pair this with Regen sources and life steal things and this show it can have synergy as well as team support. Solowise it adds a bit of kick to your damage output(non full condi builds) as well as flat damage mitigation per sec if hit(ICD 1 sec). More testing and crafting must take place before a final verdict is made.

Honestly speaking, there’s nothing really at all impressive here. Most roaming Necromancers always have the Dhummfire Terror spec, that can instagib most classes in seconds.

Burnfall.9573:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Devs,

Now that two of the best Mesmer players, Helseth and Sensotix, have quit playing Mesmer in favor of thief, are you going to recognize the “Apex Predator” problem you have created?

For clarification I am not saying Helseth and Sensotix are the best, simply among the best.

edit:
Helseth quitting Mesmer: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/500201131
Sensotix quitting Mesmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3e9eHHjfaQ

Thief= no effort class

Thief= low-skill class.

Thief= cheap design with cheap alternative mechanics and tools.

Profits= unlimited access to stealth, stability, highest single damage, conditioner removal, critics, boon stripping, teleporting, health, resetting fights, survivability, invisibility, invulnerability, invincibility….everything you can imagine.

Seriously ask yourself,

why work for hard labor, when you can work for cheap labor and get better profit ?

I’ve actually picked up on a theif…it’s a lot harder then it looks. Then again i’m a frontline/melee main. The thing with thief is that it’s really strong vs idle ranged characters(and ranged in general). With my Guardian i don’t have much problems with them uless they’re really good or they use P/D and kite me to death.

if you build for damage you’re fragile, even with stealth, and it only takes cleave and AoE, to get you down (Damage specs). Conditions also can destroy thieves, since their condi removal is either a combination of things like :Hide in Shadows(heal ,30 sec CD, removes poison, burning, and bleed.), Lyssa Runes, Shadow’s Embrace(Shadow Arts Trait, removes 1 upon stealth activation, and 1 every 3 seconds in stealth), and Shadowstep(3 on returning to original position). Sword also has condition removal on Shadow Return but you’ll often end up in a bad position if used poorly.

Boon steals are only if they spec for it via Trickery line, unlimited stealth isn’t as bad as it used to be. D/P based builds can do the combo up to two or so times without being revealed before going dry on Initiative(unless they combo it with a utility skill like Shadow Refuge.)

Point is though Thief is harder to use/manage against better opponents. You want to complain about stealth go look at Stealth based mesmer builds that stay safe while they let Phantasms wreck you. (Torch stealth. Veil, mass invis.) or the condition based clone death inflicts conditions(You’ll never die to one unless you keep killing clones/getting shattered.).