Guild Wars 2

Aza.2105:

Lucentfir.7430:

Aza.2105:

I don’t feel its the end of the world if they nerf it, however there has to be compensations in other areas. Maybe mobility? Or CC? Who knows.

But anything that is perma and spammable is not good for the game.

This is true, though, what I thought that was always offset to balance and reward was that since we’re melee we have to be in range and keep whacking at the person that’s kiting us while taking damage from condi, direct damage and all. They don’t like that the trait is easily accessible that’s fine but there’s a line here. if you move it up into masters or grandmasters minor then you’re pigeonholing guardians into that trait line. If they rework it there’s a great chance they will wreck survivability since selfless daring would give less heals. Funny thing too is this would place Warriors as better sustainer then we are, because the only thing we would have left after nerfing our vigor is protection. and blocks with Aegis. Retaliation was nerfed without compensation for our DPS in the past.

It only feels like the class is being pigeonholed because there is a over reliance upon vigorous precision.

The first thing Anet will have to do is remove the dependency guardian has upon it, then work from there. I felt from the beginning of the game dodging was abused, because of endurance restoration. From the looks of it, other forms of mitigations with cooldowns such as block, evades and protection should of been the main sources of mitigation. With dodge being the last and most powerful form of mitigation, a complete negation of incoming damage when timed right.

From the beginning they should of put the dodge mechanic in check, but they let it go on for a year. Classes doing infinite dodges, heck in pvp people dodge for absolutely no reason at all. Why? Probably because its so easy to recover endurance. If there was no way to recover it and you really only had 2 dodges to use back to back, then I bet people would use it more wisely.

it wouldn’t be a problem if the class didn’t have very low base HP, low mobility, Melee based and reliant on boons. Protection can do wonders for you but it’s not enough to survive with today’s classes, Condis can still eat through it, and with low HP easy to burst unless you spec into honor. Engies, Rangers, Warriors, Mesmers, Necros, Thieves and great eles(current ele) all can kill a guardian with ease. You can go Zerker guardians and win some. But if there’s a vigor change and it gets reworked it’s going to kill the build since you’d die in a heart beat, after two dodges(Even with the blocks after it’s over you’re going to die and it’s a dps loss and pressure is lost from your target.)

it makes sense for mesmer to get the vigor nerfed because for image creation it makes a defensive trait into a very offensive one at the same time creating so many clones to shatter with even though i don’t support nerfing mesmer vigor, it’s something to point out.

More skilled opponents there’s always a reason to dodge, but people who dodge for no reason will die regardless, because it’s easy to count how many times one has dodged and within a window of time you have because they have vigor.

My fear is that they’ll nerf our vigor trait/rework which is vital to survival of the guardian class as a whole, and we’ll easily end up as free kills even more, because we’re easy to kite, we have poor mobility, low HP. Look at it this way we’ll be a melee based Necro without Death shroud, 8k less HP, no soft CC to stick, and meh damage. if it’s supposedly a better change, fine. I’ll play on my warrior for a majority of the time, and let all the other guardians see how much it’s going to hurt the class.

Artaz.3819:

Azure.8670:

and for the record, most of the great thief players stopped playing because of how bad the nerfs are, and a few moved onto Warrior and Engi. go figure

Wrong, it was Thief, then Elementalists, then Mesmer, then Necro, then Warrior.

Now is the time for Guardians! Woohah, DPS increases incoming. I can’t wait.

Don’t hold your breath, those buffs aren’t anything significant only two of them are okay at best. Not including whatever vigor nerf they’re thinking about now :/

Aza.2105:

I don’t feel its the end of the world if they nerf it, however there has to be compensations in other areas. Maybe mobility? Or CC? Who knows.

But anything that is perma and spammable is not good for the game.

This is true, though, what I thought that was always offset to balance and reward was that since we’re melee we have to be in range and keep whacking at the person that’s kiting us while taking damage from condi, direct damage and all. They don’t like that the trait is easily accessible that’s fine but there’s a line here. if you move it up into masters or grandmasters minor then you’re pigeonholing guardians into that trait line. If they rework it there’s a great chance they will wreck survivability since selfless daring would give less heals. Funny thing too is this would place Warriors as better sustainer then we are, because the only thing we would have left after nerfing our vigor is protection. and blocks with Aegis. Retaliation was nerfed without compensation for our DPS in the past.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

If they screw up our access to vigor, I will be kitten ed beyond measure.

Pretty much, I guess they want to gut our survivability, and make us into bunkers that sole position is to buff other.

I rather prefer it remain the way it is because honestly if you ever used hammer or Mace it would be a nerf to those weapons. All this is going to do is make guardians more of a free kill to other classes that kite and condi spam us for a living. I guess Anet’s direction wants us to be buff bots and and characters not being able to hold our own ground. Even though Ele is a better boon bot than Guardian, and they are a receiving nice buffs that will obviously push them far ahead of us. Anet doesn’t care about guardians and lack enthusiasm. As someone who has played the class over 4.5k hours, with every patch i start to play my guards less and less, and soon enough it’s just going to be a nail in the coffin because we’ll be pigeon holed into bunker builds if we obviously want to survive the spamming of range, with lack of soft CC, mobility, and being melee based(ranged weapons outside of PvE blows I’m sorry to say), and build diversity broke. /end overreaction

Please Devs give us a sign or a post you’re actually listening, it feels like you only post once or twice in this sub-forums just for the appearance, and leave us dry with false hope for the class, and disguising buffs as significant changes when they’re not(2 of them are okay at most). Please post more often and give feedback to all us guardian players.

Kyle.3856:

From the ele forums:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Treborlavok.3504:

just like the guardians 5 trait for vigor on crit… its ok for them to have a 10 second single condition cure at adept…?

The Guardian and Mesmer vigor traits are something that were on the table and will be on the table for change in the future. We don’t like those traits being that easily accessible. While they haven’t yet been changed as long as our thoughts don’t change internally they are part of the vigor rework we want to do.

………. Uh oh….

Really…..so on top of having to be a melee fighter class, with the lowest HP, no real mobility and having every other class being able to outrun us you’re going to mess with this trait. Pretending to buff the DPS…yeah….sure…..please clarify Devs what you actually intend to do with the trait….because right now I’m feeling it’s going to impact guardian greatly. i don’t know if I’m overacting or not but that’s really nothing light to take in, that’s pretty heavy.

Hamish.1384:

Sylpheed

Please stop, read lucent’s post as he knows what he’s talking about. If you wanna be a War, reroll.[/quote]

Hmm? Not sure what the problem is I thought this was constructive class discussion did I say something out of line? I don’t know Lucent, nor do I know you, but I know what I’m talking about being as I have played Guardian for over a year and like many have multiple level 80’s (6) and I do WvW with 4 out of the 6 so I can make very solid/sound comparisons between classes. I do have an 80 Warrior and I know exactly what he brings to the table compared to a Guard.[/quote]

I’ve mained Guardian since the the start of the game, more then 4.5k hours on them(I have 2 Guardians). I have a warrior too that i fully geared and I know the class as well. I have about 4 Level 80’s atm. I do WvW with all four of them, though mostly my Warrior or my Zerker Guardian. I know what my Warrior and my Guardian bring to the table in terms of Solo roaming and Small group play. You aren’t the only one :P

Silentstorm.7531:

Judge’s Invention now stuns 3 seconds on impact….If character stun breaks out of it. They receive a slow for another 3 seconds. Call the slow “Burden of Guilt”. See GW2 it’s not hard to come up with something

Can we have that for christmas?

That kinda seems ridiculous. I’d rather have Soft CC on our weapons or a minor trait that applies chill or something so we can actually stick and not everyone can just flee from us(the ones without traveler Runes). JI stun and slow if stun break sounds really OP, at least from my perspective.

Hamish.1384:

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

We don’t really sacrifice that much for a dps build, I run zerkers with 16k HP and find myself being just fine. The only type of warrior I even struggle to fight against is pure regen tank condi warriors in a 1v1 situation, and it just usually draws out into no one dying. If you want to have pure zerkers with the same amount of survivability we currently have + more HP then what’s the point of playing a Warrior? Our DPS spec is viable, and I addressed the need for more soft CC (Which is cripple/chill/snare/etc if you don’t know the terminology). We have a good amount of leaps and blinks and utilities that give movement speed. (Which we won’t need to use if we get more soft CC). You keep saying that we sacrifice too much survivability to go dps spec but most of our needed traits are in the valor / honor lines anyway, and again.. If you want to maintain the survivability we have now with more damage, that’s just broken. There has to be some kind of give and take balance, you can’t have it all.

I would seriously like to know how you have 16K HP in “zerkers”? I assume when you say that, since you did not specify otherwise, that you mean full zerkers, armor, weapons, and trinkets. If you are running a DPS setup, then you don’t have the extra vitality either, so you “should” have about 13,500 HP. Now, as an example, I can run full zerkers with my Warrior, and Im sitting at about 19,500 HP. That’s with nothing traited for vitality, and I guarantee you, I am outdamaging any Guard on the field by about 3 times what they can individually put out. Now, Guardians have burst, yes if spec’d full DPS I can burst a warrior down to about a third of their health in one go.

However, that means everything goes on CD, what happens next is all too familiar for us, they escape – Bulls Charge, Sword #2, GS #3 or #5 whatever you name it. Yes you touched on the fact we need better soft cc, I posted above I think a good fix for our sword #2 and JI to be more efficient they should be area targetable, but you know what, even then a warrior will gain distance on us if they are using the 25% speed trait, unless we are using Traveler Runes. I’ve run a Signet build on a guardian that maximizes vulnerability stacks and Mighty Blow hits hard but the CC you get from our Bane Signet and…the condition damage one is nice but the cast time is too long on them imo.

You also talk about abilities that provide speed, so you are talking about Retreat, and Save Yourselves which are shouts, and if you are running a “Guardian DPS” build you should be using meditations in which case you won’t have either of those on your bar. Can you have DPS with a shout build? Of course you can, but you won’t be able to maximize your burst potential.

I posted above my thoughts about our condition damage being a Guardian only condition not shared with other classes, also someone posted above an idea in the zeal line that converts power to vitality which I think would be a great idea then my idea of giving us base 3500 HP, which BTW still puts us well below that of a Warrior, only one class in the game has less HP then a Guard and that’s Thieves. I think class balance is great, obviously, but ANET needs to address this condition meta, simple fix, add immunity timers. What is the point of condi removal if it gets reapplied instantly, and for a class like us HP is what saves our you know what’s when it comes to conditions, which as pointed out, are second lowest pool in the game. So all that protection we get, don’t mean jack you know what.

I run a zerker meditation build with Traveler Runes. I have about 2 Trinkets that give me vitality, and I’m 25 in honor. So my base HP is around the 15k mark. With food and WvW bonuses I hover around 16k-17k. GS/ S+T Guardian, my burst is insane and I can kill a whole variety of foes such as Condi and zerker mesmers(most of the time) Perplexity Engineers, and Thieves which are easy for me to kill. I only lose really lose if the odds are against me 1v2+(sometimes I win them because I burst down one of them so fast i can move to the other) Though I’d say we need soft CC so some of the other builds don’t have to run traveler runes or go gimmicky Staff+ Retreat builds to just have faster movement speed.

TereuS.1436:

Epic.3950:

TereuS.1436:

dude, really? do you really own a guard and say they dont have speed?

1. staff
   2 shouts

with that you get perma speed

lol. I meant a viable non kittenty way.

mobility is mobility, what’s the problem with that?

staff is one of the best weapons in the game for guardians

Sure Staff is great, it’s one of the best weapons for Zerg, and small group play, but in 1v1s and solo roaming, well it’s not efficient. Also i never pick up retreat, imo the skill isn’t worth a 60-48 sec CD for 20 sec of Swiftness and 1 aegis(unless ofc you’re running with a group/zerg.) The fact that you have to use SY, Retreat and Staff, shows how much we have to sacrifice to get a speed boost compared to other classes :|

Some mobility might be nice, though i think it would be better if we had consistent soft CC so people don’t just walk away with ease. We’ll stay in the fight, and we’ll fight, but we better kitten well make sure others fighting us stay in the fight with us.

There will always be QQ, whether it’s for something being OP and it needs nerfs, or something being UP and needs buffs.

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

Shattered Aegis
As soon as I get in on Monday, I’ll post the damage #s on this and the power scaling. I think a meaning ful discussion about this change is going to require that. One danger here is that big WvW zergs using this could be really powerful, but I will say that the numbers are decent.

Supreme Justice and Kindled Zeal
I feel like there is a build here, but TBH I haven’t gotten it to work in our internal testing yet. This is as good a place as any to talk about stat conversion traits.

Currently they do not convert 100% of a stat because certain stat bonuses such as those from signets do not get converted. For that reason we are being conservative but normalizing all of our conversions to the follow #s for now.
Minor: 5%,7%, and 10% respectively for adept, master and grandmaster.
Major: 7%,10%, and 13% respectively for adept, master, and grandmaster.

I’m not sure this will be enough, but I do not want these traits to be overpowered as I feel they are fairly passive. That being said, I think they are good simple traits and with 12 traits per line it is absolutely fine to have some passive simple to understand traits.

Another thing about this build is that you do not have all of the information you need about this power guardian right now, but I can’t reveal more without spoilers. /tease

Symbol of Swiftness
To clarify the new Symbol of Swiftness will give you 4 seconds of Swiftness every single pulse regardless of if you have swiftness or not. This is a improvement in many situations and a slight loss in the situation where you were using the Symbol as just a one time buff. I think this makes it feel more like a Symbol, which is good. We are still discussing the idea of it being 5 seconds, but there is some danger of that going pretty high with boon duration.

Power guardian vs Condition guardian
I think Dec 10th will see the emergence of the power guardian, but I think that the condition based guardian still has a ways to go. Ultimately this is because it is hard to cover the burning and frankly you need a good reliable second or even third condition that guardians simply do not have right now. I think for those professions lacking that 3rd damage condition we are looking at supplementing them via runes and sigils rather than skills/traits right now but that won’t be something we attempt until the build that follows the Dec 10th build.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a few half spoiler/half teases.

Thanks,

Jon

I’ve had a go with this a power burning build before in Spvp duels a while back, and frankly i thought it it was pretty good, it performed well, even against other guardians and mesmers, hell even necros. It was going Carrion with Soldiers stuff in Spvp. The only thing i really felt lacking with this sort of build is good condi removal(The amount you need with the current meta) and sustain.. There’s a way i gauge damage output, it’s by including all the other sources of damage available to you. There’s a lot of hidden synergy in zeal. it gives 300 power and 30% Condi duration. Kindled Zeal gets about maybe a 200+ increase in Condi Damage, since you have about 2k power already, and you have great access to retal which is also scaled by power, then you have direct damage, which is pretty strong there. Burning as the Devs have said is strong, and it is true, 300+ damage vs 500+ damage, and each ticks per second. The longer the fight goes on the higher the damage of the 500 per tick scales more than the 300 per tick. Then you dip in some retaliation and all of it can add up to a lot, (Direct Damage + Burn Damage(per sec) + Retaliation(Number of hits?)= Possible damage output). So I’ll be in the works of crafting a second set for my offesive based guardian x3

I’m finding this funny, on my second warrior my build fits right along with these changes lol, Hammer Rifle Warrior 0/20/30/0/20. Though playing froma different perspective of other classes and a few rounds of Spvp and WvW, the damage the current Hammer warrior does right now with the trait setup is a bit too high, mixed with Survivability of healing signet+ Adrenal health and Regen boon. If you’re playing against a skilled Warrior who knows what he’s doing, power builds will instantly lose against this. Only thing that might be able to kick them into the dirt is a good DPS specced mesmer, and/or Engineers. Though most of the time over the other classes Warriors win the rest of the encounters. it Takes a heavy and steady stream of DoTs to get them down, that is if you have the sustain to match theirs.

RashanDale.3609:

I Deschain I.4623:

It’s like ANet telling us: “For god’s sake just reroll a guard or warrior already”.

this. so much this. Why do Guardians constantly get buffs? they need to get hit with the nerfbat, hard and often; not buffed…

Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.
Signet of Spite: Removed one bleed.

The kitten? The first one hits Staff way too hard.

Spite 15 – Death into Life. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%

Healing power is kitten, especially for nec. This wont change anything

Curses VIII – Banshee’s Wail. Increase cooldown reduction from 15% to 20%.

The 15% and the extended duration was already good enough. pointless buff.

Curses IV – Weakening Shroud. Increase recharge from 15 to 25.

Welp. Nerfed into uselessness…

Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s.

Oh kittenmit, now it’s pretty obvious that theyre mocking us…decreasing cooldown doesnt do anything as long as the horror itself is still so kittening useless…

Blood Magic 25 – Blood to Power. Decreased health threshold from 90% to 75%. Increase Power from 90 to 120.

Same here. Just remove it already and give us something fun and useful instead…

Are you kidding me? Guardians already got hit hard with the PoV fix. I don’t get how you can complain about guards, they easily get flopped by condi bombs.

just a quick question but will you be able to fix the Searing FLames trait for guardian to actually proc on people with boons and not just proc whenever you apply burning. The buff to this is great but I’d like to see it procs only when the target has a boon on them.

My thoughts on how to buff mending is to change how it works. Nerf the CD to 25-30 seconds, and rework it to remove conditions over a set period of time. 6 Charges, and the stack lasts 6 seconds. No Regen, keep it as a burst heal that would heal for 6-7k, and slightly touch the ratio to balance out the higher base heal. Do you think this would be a good idea for rework or a horrible one?

I find it fine the way it is, honestly they need to give the rip skill a buff, because there’s no reason to pull the sword out of anyone. Either they need to make it apply 2 stacks of Torment upon ripping or a big damage buff boost. Also try timing your condi removal after at least the third or 4th stack appears on you to minimize damage.

I think a reasonable shaving amount for Healing Signet would be about 30-50. The scaling with healing power goes up greatly so it’s still a option for sustain, just not as potent as Healing Surge with full adrenaline. Healing Signet and Adrenal health will still be in a good spot, but it shouldn’t let you shrug off all power damage easily. Hammer builds, in order to balance it and not destroy the hammer build, I would expect they cut 50% to 20%-25% so you actually have to put in some points for Crit chance. Also i doubt they would nerf Warrior’s condi build, at least not by much if anything. being able to tank and deal decent damage? With just condition damage, if they want to nerf warriors for Condi, they have to nerf Engi first, because they have some insane survivability being mobile, while face rolling Conditions.

Irsei.6802:

Lucentfir.7430:

Irsei.6802:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Guardians are fine. I still see more of them in wvw than warriors. Yes warriors and necros are the fotm. What does that always mean. It means they will be nerfed into the ground like every other fotm has been. So just be paitent and warriors will be garbage again when they nerf healing singet and nobody uses it anymore and they mess with the traits so you don’t get everything by taking 1 trait line in warrior.

Have you played alot of MMO’s? All of them have had the golden childs that the devs love….IE the pobcast with class buffs the devs were giddy when they talked about warriors… and the ones who stay black sheep and never get help for years why? Easy they sit back with the attitude “ohh they will get to us” and it never happens class becomes played very little and then the devs go.. why spend time on a class no one plays.. thus it is perma black sheep.

It really shows too, with the races too. Charr are in need of good armor that doesn’t clip or shave mane/remove horns. Anet’s logic is obviously if it’s the least played or it isn’t popular, the way to fix it is to put more work into the popular classes/races, and forget about the less popular ones. The OCT 15 patch was a huge letdown aside from the meditations becoming instant and a fury buff. Purging Flames is okay.

Fury buff is to short to be of any use… now if warriors had a buff like that it would last 3 secs on a 12 sec reuse.. ohh wait they have that on the off hand axe and I read alot of warriors saying its useless..12 sec use timer 3 sec up time and we get a 2 sec up time on a what 20 to 30 sec timer?

20 kitten and 60 sec reuse for a fury that last 1 sec less then warrior get on a weapon! Hello devs you cant see how this is just wrong?

You need at least Save yourselves and some boon duration to make make it better. Though I think from a warrior’s perspective too since I own one, off hand axe may give good fury, but the 5 skill does less damage then axe 1 chain

Irsei.6802:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Guardians are fine. I still see more of them in wvw than warriors. Yes warriors and necros are the fotm. What does that always mean. It means they will be nerfed into the ground like every other fotm has been. So just be paitent and warriors will be garbage again when they nerf healing singet and nobody uses it anymore and they mess with the traits so you don’t get everything by taking 1 trait line in warrior.

Have you played alot of MMO’s? All of them have had the golden childs that the devs love….IE the pobcast with class buffs the devs were giddy when they talked about warriors… and the ones who stay black sheep and never get help for years why? Easy they sit back with the attitude “ohh they will get to us” and it never happens class becomes played very little and then the devs go.. why spend time on a class no one plays.. thus it is perma black sheep.

It really shows too, with the races too. Charr are in need of good armor that doesn’t clip or shave mane/remove horns. Anet’s logic is obviously if it’s the least played or it isn’t popular, the way to fix it is to put more work into the popular classes/races, and forget about the less popular ones. The OCT 15 patch was a huge letdown aside from the meditations becoming instant and a fury buff. Purging Flames is okay.

@harper

Please, first of all i’ll agree healing signet by itself is okay, it’s the fact that it’s combined with Adrenal health and whatever regen boon, that makes it over the top, which is why I suggested in the past to knock down the base and up the ratio high(50 sounds about good imo so it isn’t where it used to be back then). I understand the workings of a warrior because before the Healing signet buff I was already in the works in crafting a build for my warrior that wasn’t fotm and I took the time to analyze. Traitlines, and weapon set ups, and combonations of abilities and overall synergy. I’m already building up a second warrior, to try out Rifle and Hammer build, and experiment with a few other builds.

I wouldn’t be so bothered by this either if it wasn’t for the fact that Warrior don’t really sacrifice anything. if you compare to a guardian(Comparing the two class because they practically are in the same department where they have to be melee) sure they get aegis, protection, and regen, vigor, and virtues, but here’s the thing, that’s what they pay for for having 10k hp base health, which is about 8-9k less than a warrior.

The regen you see from a guardian? it’s invested to survive. All the gimmicks you’re talking about…they’re active defense, and just as well protection. Virtues are pretty weak unless you trait and spec into them. Guardians are one of the few good balance classes in the game. We don’t have good mobility but that’s another trade off for having sustain, and boons, we only have The sustain, and support. Our damage is okay as long as we build for it and sacrifice our survivability . That’s a thing too, we as guardians or any other class for that matter have to sacrifice stats.

TBH Idk why I’m even replying here now, when most of the warrior forum is biased. It. So whatever. All it’s going to boil down too is “Oh you can’t faceroll warrior? L2P noob, Warriors aren’t free kills anymore.” SO i guess enjoy making the same argument over and over again. I’ll just be dealing with Warriors on my Warriors, since it’s a even playing field. I’ll be sure as hell to enjoy the Healing Signet myself on my warriors.

Harper.4173:

Necrotize.2974:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

ANet needs to buff bad players, not nerf heal sig.

And this right here is why nothing is ever agreed upon.
Something is OP or needs to be toned down
People complain and ask for it to be nerfed
People who want it to stay just say everyone who can’t beat it is just bad

Guess anytime something is in need of a buff or a nerf we should just leave it because you know, it was all probably just the player’s skill causing the problem. If that were true though, why would various warriors themselves be calling it over the top? Who cares, skill is all the matters and every class is perfectly balanced and requires the exact same amount of skill to play right?

Because anyone can pretend to be any class they want on the forums.
Pro tip : if people played and knew warrior they wouldn’t be asking for a nerf.

Main spec thieves/eles/whatever who happen to have a warrior are asking for a nerf because you know – they’ve played their war for a good 100 hours farming cof1 – so they must know what they’re talking about – right?

I’m sorry but honest opinion, playing a guardian for over 4.5k hours, and having a warrior(and another one in the making) I wouldn’t mind a slight nerf to Healing Signet. Combined with Adrenal health and whatever regeneration you get(allies or dogged march)you can shrug off a lot of damage unless you’re taking focus fire by people with decent builds. Warriors have the mobility, the sustainability, and the damage in one package, where as compared to my guardian i have to sacrifice damage or sustainability. Another note too is Warrior’s health pool is big enough, to the point they don’t have to spend a single point in vitality meaning it’s care free of the stat.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Lucentfir.7430:

As much as I love this build i feel like I’m at a loss now. The absurd amount of condition spam, and then Hammer Warrior builds bursting me for 4-5k damage with one skill and being able to shrug off anything i throw at them feel demoralizing. Zerker mesmers….thieves…condi .necro and engie pretty much face roll me or eat me alive(espcially in a 1v2). Warriors depending on their build…can do the same. Solo roaming of course is what I’m talking about…so the way it feels, I can’t pressure, but I can easily be pressured all i can do is pretty much stall or try to help the team. zerg play and small groups the build works great still. I was going to build bolt for my guardian too but now I’m starting to second guess it.

It’s a problem with how strong conditions and Warriors are. Condi Engis and Necros, bunker Phantasm/condition Mesmers, and stun-lock Warriors with Healing Signet are all overbalanced (I don’t like the word overpowered…) and it hurts us and most other professions pretty badly. Maybe Thieves and Eles not quite as much, since one can disengage anything and the other has arguably the most condi removal in-game.

For solo play I’ve started running Soldier runes and carrying several types of food: Mango Pie for 2+ Power build opponents, Lemongrass for 2+ opponents where at least one is conditions, and Curry Butternut Squash Soup for 1v1 versus anything. I play a more DPS-oriented build presently and believe in burning people down in 1v1 before they can kill me through attrition with conditions or by, well, being a Warrior.

If you want to build Bolt for a roaming build, it’ll probably be some kind of DPS build meant for taking on 2 opponents at the most, perhaps 3 if they’re all power builds or one of them is particularly squishy or isn’t expecting your burst. Healway’s efficiency is hampered greatly by the strength of condition spam and stun locks right now.

Warriors actually shouldn’t be a big problem on their own, despite stun locks. The trick is to hold your “SY!” and “SYG” for when they actually stun you, then just pop one. DPS after stunbreaks and when you have Stability up. Hammer attacks are highly telegraphed, so spend some time in sPvP and you’ll be able to dodge/blind/block them in no time. They are extremely annoying in pairs though… I fought a stun Warrior and a condition Necro the other day. Wasn’t very fun, but I did pull out a win. Will post the video at some point.

yLoon.5289:

I’ve always hated WvW.
Never like WvW.

Till i tried this build.
And I owned 3 players together which consisted of Mesmer, Necro, and Ranger.

I don’t know how the duck i did that.
But this build works like magic.

Thanks OP!

I’m glad you’re enjoying it.

:)

Xhean.3452:

I was thinking about buying the oh so expensive travelers runes cause they simply seem awesome. What are your thoughts about them for this build?

I don’t like Traveler runes at all. You’re either giving up a lot of Boon duration and Healing power, a lot of potential damage (if playing DPS runes), or condition removal (if running Soldier runes). I know some people like the 25% movement speed, and the Boon duration can help, but the only time I enjoy seeing them on a Guardian is when it’s a 2 Monk/2 Water/2 Traveler setup for Boon dura stacking for 15+ group play.

I just don’t like how much you have to give up for a speed increase. You especially don’t need it with this build considering how mobile the weapons are (minus Hammer) or for zerg play where you have perma-Swiftness.

Hmm yea i’ve been thinking of some more DPS based traitlines for Healway…and i’ve experimented with a few Rune sets like Hoelbrak and such, but i feel like I’m just missing to much healing power. (about 1100+ with Hoelbrak Runes and lemon grass) Though I am running 2 Soldiers rings but everything else clerics. I might go soldiers runes again.

Warriors I don’t even see a point in fighting them when Roaming, they have enough swiftness uptime to just leave and they’re just as tanky as I am with the slow big burst damage to boot on hammer. I think i just might be bad at my guardian then..idk. I don’t think i can kill a decently built warrior or a roaming engie, they just have to much sustain and/or mobility for me to deal with.

Also if you run soilder runes for solo play, what do you do for the missing boon duration and healing power?

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Its so easy to use a warrior that there is actually a hidden difficulty choice when you create a character for PVP/WVW

Hard Mode- Ranger/Engi/Mesmer
Normal Mode-Guardian/Necro/Ele/Thief
Easy Mode- Warrior

Named my warrior “Faceroll Profession” for factual clarity on the description of the class.

Guardian and Ele shoud be put up in hard mode since they have to deal with the most bs of the meta. Necro whould be moved down to easy mode, and Engi to normal mode. Ranger is like in-between normal and hard.

As much as I love this build i feel like I’m at a loss now. The absurd amount of condition spam, and then Hammer Warrior builds bursting me for 4-5k damage with one skill and being able to shrug off anything i throw at them feel demoralizing. Zerker mesmers….thieves…condi .necro and engie pretty much face roll me or eat me alive(espcially in a 1v2). Warriors depending on their build…can do the same. Solo roaming of course is what I’m talking about…so the way it feels, I can’t pressure, but I can easily be pressured all i can do is pretty much stall or try to help the team. zerg play and small groups the build works great still. I was going to build bolt for my guardian too but now I’m starting to second guess it.

Storm.3952:

For a start as far as I know the 6th piece of Rune of Might is still bugged.

I would try to avoid making a build that will work in WvW AND PvE, they’re just too different and you’ll kitten yourself in dungeons trying to use a WvW build.

You’ll find about 10 different views from various people on AH and builds so I won’t bother adding to that! Certainly for PvE there comes a point where you’re adding defence for no reason and just lowering your damage.

If you want to go for an AH type build you could even argue Scholar runes as you’ve got a daft amount of healing. You can’t tank this game so this is a main argument for zerker dps.

Personally I run a Knights+1zerker armour, zerker weapon and trinkets Hammer/Staff build with boon duration runes. But some people hate hammer, love GS or find sword awkward.

Well it’s possible to make a WvW/PVE build, that functions decently in both areas. I run Traveler Runes and zerker gear with meditations. I do great in WvW roaming, PVE wise I roll through dungeons well, with good DPS. The only thing I would argue is, that a lot of people are min max mind set, so that leaves them in areas where they have to choose which build to use in said areas. Also if there’s something I need in the dungeon, like bit more support. I roll with a supporty weapon (Staff, Mace, x/shield)

MercenaryK.4180:

TheGuy.3568:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

People are too wound up after this patch. If you guys want some good comedic relief, go read ranger posts lol.

I never really understand responses like this. What do you want us to compare kitten list and feel better. Still got kitten at the end of day. Play both classes and you got a double serving.

We should complain. It is not a bad thing to let the devs know what we want vs the whole, “I am going to quit!” thing. We let them know on warrior and it might have taken months but they got around to making things better….then OP. Then player rushed in who quit the class and told vets who said things were too strong that they were wrong. And I know that once guardian gets it’s buff the same will happen.Even at the risk of cheese dominating the landscape we must continue to inform the devs of what we do not like. It is for the good of the game.

Once upon a time, years and years ago, the Monks of Guild Wars 1 revolted against their mandatory position as only good for healz. They rebelled and complained, gathered together and refused to provide healz until ANet gave them the attention they wanted and provide for them a solid source of damage. ANet listened.

This sounds exactly like what happened with the Warrior Forums.

Yaki.9563:

Lucentfir.7430:

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

Don’t forget the 0 power to go along with those bleeds and torments that do bad damage because of the low condition damage stat. So yes, that is pretty useless. HS and Adrenal Health only affect the warrior, and barely increase at all with healing power.

You know what’s funny you’re talking to me as if i don’t own one . S/S Longbow, Apot/Celestial mix. Get out of here. I own a warrior, and run a condi bunker spec myself, i make up for more damage through Superior sigil of battle (That 16+ might stack, Combustion Shot, and Savage Leap Fire Shield, and Arching Arrow Blast finisher). Running Shouts? Grab Solider runes Shake it off and shrug it off=2 condi cleanse each(4 in total not including the 2 other shouts). If I want versatility and only support I take up warhorn and Quick breathing, so I at least still have bleeds and burns Or if i really need another Dot , Superior Sigil of Doom for poison. I have no problems killing anything, the only problems I have are other well played Condi Warriors, Good mesmers, and the occasional Engineer. Guardians i run into that aren’t Healway are basically free food for me. Also traited into Healing shouts support wise I get people up faster when they’re downed, which has also been a real life saver in small skirmishes.

I own two guardians, and over 4.5k hours with them in total, so I know the definite weaknesses and strength of my class. Right now the only thing that’s going for us is Regen and protection. You’d be useless for everything outside of boons, and heals, with lower Health pool.. If you’re going the support route.

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

The only things we have going for us now are Vigor and protection. Those are the only things. Staff you’re just a 12 stack of might+ heal. Condi removal is gutted outside PVE, unless you’re running DPS meditation then you have okay Condi removal..

MiLkZz.4789:

1. In the video you were attacking with 2, 1 of them was an autoattacking ranger. Those don’t even count. So you were the only damage dealer.
2. You can see that 1 player already brought the health down for a quit a bit. A bit clever play and you would have been able to kill him.
3. This player would NOT deal any damage back to you, full bunker guards can do this too and even better.
4. The numbers you give are far far off.
5. Me and an other person out of my guild would kill him in 2min or less. hint poinson
6. I’ll just put it here: poison.
7. There ain’t such rune combo that gives you tons of regen, just the regular regen and that stacks in duration, not intensity.
8. Wonder how he did it? Stack healing power as high as you can and get some armor. Done!

One think I’m going to say. If you’re going to be a bunker guard, you need to be active to survive, not stand in one place and /wave like the warrior is doing. Condispamming professions or good zerker mesmers wrecks regen warriors like this, it they run all banners, ..

sorrychief.2563:

Lucentfir.7430:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m all for dueling in specific arenas/ruins/etc but not across all of PvE. Even if you are able to shut off duel request there is still just too much trolling potential. Dueling sharpens your skills and presents a challenge instead of spamming 1 fighting SB. If you want dueling go to your wvw server match up thread and put out an invitation to a fight club.

In towns I can understand no dueling unless there’s a Arena area in it(Black Citadel’s Bane) but honestly PvE Dueling would be great. Let me ask you, when’t the last time you’ve seen a zone just full of people/life not there for event chains or farming? I know i don’t unless it’s for RP stuff. Also this really guts good video potential, where you can fight in great breath taking locations. Spvp duels are pretty meh, everything is gutted there and stat placement is fixed. Also most of the time your gear looks newbie or you don’t have access to it.

You have to earn your gear just as you do in pve.

That’s known but in order to get it you have to go through the extremely ridiculous Rank grind in Spvp and it makes it tedious. I’ve earned a couple some pieces but I won’t be getting no lol cultural pieces until what rank 80 i think? At least in PvE i earn my gear at a more appropriate rate through dungeons or TP and don’t have to wait for a a year to obtain a piece I want through a ranking system. Rank 29 atm.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m all for dueling in specific arenas/ruins/etc but not across all of PvE. Even if you are able to shut off duel request there is still just too much trolling potential. Dueling sharpens your skills and presents a challenge instead of spamming 1 fighting SB. If you want dueling go to your wvw server match up thread and put out an invitation to a fight club.

In towns I can understand no dueling unless there’s a Arena area in it(Black Citadel’s Bane) but honestly PvE Dueling would be great. Let me ask you, when’t the last time you’ve seen a zone just full of people/life not there for event chains or farming? I know i don’t unless it’s for RP stuff. Also this really guts good video potential, where you can fight in great breath taking locations. Spvp duels are pretty meh, everything is gutted there and stat placement is fixed. Also most of the time your gear looks newbie or you don’t have access to it.

Don’t know if I’m willing to give up Purity for Reworked Focused Mind, but if conditions get toned down enough then I will run it normally. Also Traveler Runes are your best friend as a DPS guard. people undermind the condition duration. It benfits a lot of builds. Blinds are slightly longer, burning lasts longer. Boon Duration is well worth it if you run SY, and have 5 in virtues. You’d be surprised by how mobile a Zeker meditaton GS S/T guard with Traveler Runes is. The runes mesh well with a lot of builds.

Zackie.8923:

Lucentfir.7430:

Tarinis.6054:

High survivability, excellent damage, wanted in groups all the time. Really no cons

As a owner of 2 fully geared Guardians and over 4.5k hours on them, they’re very solid for PVE, but then again PVE pretty much any set up works there(Dungeons are pretty meh). SPVP and WvW they have the cons of not being mobile and having to gear and spec a certain way to kill anything above a average player. Most guardians are pigeon hold into a bunker builds. especially in Spvp. If you want to deal damage then you have to gear and spec for it. If you want to survive then you have to do the same, as opposed to other classes. It’s pretty easy to face roll guardians that aren’t exactly healway specced. Especially with Engi, necro and, faceroll condi spam builds or even mesmers.

i am just curious, why do you need to make 2 charr guardians?

I have multiple reasons. One is I do love the guardian class and has been my main class since launch. Two, i don’t like carrying around extra armor sets, and each character I make excels in a specific area the other doesn’t. Three Charr are awesome and all 6 of my characters are charr. I’m a roleplayer to so that should help explain that last bit.

Tarinis.6054:

High survivability, excellent damage, wanted in groups all the time. Really no cons

As a owner of 2 fully geared Guardians and over 4.5k hours on them, they’re very solid for PVE, but then again PVE pretty much any set up works there(Dungeons are pretty meh). SPVP and WvW they have the cons of not being mobile and having to gear and spec a certain way to kill anything above a average player. Most guardians are pigeon hold into a bunker builds. especially in Spvp. If you want to deal damage then you have to gear and spec for it. If you want to survive then you have to do the same, as opposed to other classes. It’s pretty easy to face roll guardians that aren’t exactly healway specced. Especially with Engi, necro and, faceroll condi spam builds or even mesmers.

Yay! So glad I’m going to be effortlessly face rolled by condition stackers again! I really hope you(Anet) actually shave down and bring up CDs on some of these because it’s pretty ridiculous to clear a full bar of conditions and 4-5 seconds later you have a full bar of conditions again. Meaning you can’t clear again until however long your CD is(20-60 sec)

Well i better apply more lube, because Roaming is going to hurt : | have a good match everyone.

For meditation builds this Rune set is pretty good, and for my Zerker meditation guard this rune set is everything i could want in it the most I lost was 50 power and 2-4% crit damage, and i’m still well over 2k power. I tossed in Torch for the nuke and extra DPS (burning, and increased damage on burning foes), and my blinds and burns last longer. The only people i really lose to are face roll Condi Terrormancers.

Though Chris! I understand your view point, though when using healway mindset isn’t about killing things it’s about outlasting and doing a slow stream of damage through block burns, power, and retal. I think this Rune set is more for people who want to get up in other’s faces and keep up with runners using movement signet.

Dindin.2378:

charr took my juuub

The humans took our land.

cobski.6548:

@lucentfir i give it a 7.5/10 great combination of colors but the chest i think is a bit plain but all around its good here’s my first pic of my charrior Glaucus Aurum

Yea Plain chest is the best, if i went with something too flashy then it would have taken away from the whole outfit :P also Flame Shaman, needs to have a more old Shamanny look to retain the theme.

They need to do more changes like this, because now they look like they actually fit instead of every time you put on a helm they’d chop off your horns or shave you mane. The only thing now is to make it so your mane isn’t shaved off every time.

This is pretty much going to be a big buff in my build. 0/10/30/30/0 Condi Warrior(Apot Gear and celestial mix). Pretty flexible, and I get to abuse healing Signet, Adrenal health and Vigorous shouts. I can also take Dogged march for the short term Regen. I take Warhorn for support, though if I don’t want to support anymore I can easily switch it out for Dual swords and replace the warhorn trait with Shrug it off. Paired with Soldier runes, Shake it off and Shrug it off, wipe 2 Conditions each and heal for over 2k, and with Lung Capacity moving down, all my shouts become shorter, even when the Shouts themselves are low CD. i can still kill people pretty easy with good access to burns and bleeds and depending if i want more Damage torment through Dual Swords. If I face someone without high CC or a theif i can switch to spiked armor which also is another form of on top of Condition damage. Get paired with a guardian and you can’t die loololol.

This one is my Elder Flame Legion Shaman(Elementalist). I tried to make everything fit within it’s theme

@king 6/10
Colors are nice, though the armor set is somewhat over used/See it all the time.

Well honestly speaking, when you bring a Ele to face a warrior who’s tanky CC Stunlock, Healing Signet. It’s going to be the Warrior that wins. Ele got a bit overnerfed. In WvW they are the easiest class to kill in WvW, and do little damage(No damage), or A lot and just explode. Telling them to bring Stability and stunbreakers will not help them and M/S, GS is basically a 1-2-3(not the actual buttons for those people thinking that I think that’s the button combination) I win button.

It’s true the buffs may be a bit big, but overall, this is freaking fun. No longer am i faced with Zergy screen lag. Also i recall many people saying small groups and roamers not really making a difference in WvW. Well now they are, and I’ve had some of the most fun fights in those hours. It’s also easier to get the mist defender killer daily done. There is a zerg that comes through the place sometimes but after they just leave to go cap something, and whatever Bloodlust point they capped is easily taken back.

SPvP wise mace is one of the best weapons you can roll if you’re going for a bunker symbol build or a stationary sustain build. Pair it with shield or focus and you can pretty much take on 2-3 people for a while. The whirl finisher is pretty bad i’ll admit but other then that single finisher it’s a good weapon. You have a semi-spamable block which can alway be good for Defender’s Flame or Might of th Protector(Gain might on block) and high uptime on Regen and heals with mace autos. Outside SPvP in PVE it’s still good, in WvW it’s very meh since it’s really open field. The only thing I would change if anything is to have mace’s 3rd hit proc even if it misses. Though It seems to be the downside/punishment for missing the attack and you have to do the chain again to try and hit the third strike again.

Conditions don’t crit and the stat combination inside most Condition Damage, precision trees, are normally for on crit effects, like having 33% chance to inflict a stack of bleeds on crit.

mambastik.8735:

Lucentfir.7430:

It’s good supplement damage and it adds a punishment to your foes when you block. In combination with Retal and Direct damage it can add up a lot. (Has Runes of Guardian on too)

Does Defender’s Flame stack with Rune of the Guardian, meaning 1 block gives 2 seconds of Burn?

It does, i use it on my healway guard.

CptAurellian.9537:

‘sigh’ That build would be junk, since Carrion is a joke compared to Zerker and virtually any trait line is better than points beyond 20 Zeal. Do you now get what I’m talking about?

I have a zerker guardian meditation guardian, and a healway guardian. I’ve experimented with it, also I’m not saying go full Carrion, Carrion armor with Forge Runes is a possibility and your choice of Trinkets which would have some sort of toughness in it. You can also go a narrow path and go 30 in Valor if you want it to be a AH based. There’s multiple paths you can go down. I remember bringing a build like this into duels in Spvp only with meditations. Seemed to do very well. Also as a bonus burning in combination with Retal adds up to a lot. And we do have access to protection to take some hits. I’m talking in a PvP setting though tbh not PvE, burning in itself is also something that helps against ranged kitting when we can’t close in to well on them.