Guild Wars 2

Server crashed, and a majority of people get DC’d mid match, get dishonored and loss of rating. Not cool. : [

Sigmoid.7082:

Its not a thing because
a) its OP
b) the community asked not to have it since its close to dire stats.
c) its OP
d) Mercenary amulet had similar stats but again was op so got removed
e) its OP

Oh no it’s not! Alot of people I’ve seen want to ride on the train as profession/Spec is a design problem, stat amulet access don’t make things OP! /s

XxsdgxX.8109:

Lucentfir.7430:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Told you guys, balancing around the top 1% absolutely never works. (Yes I’m talking about gutting high skill floor classes like Rev and leave alone (even buff) cancer low AF skill floor ones like Zerker, DH)

Enjoy your dead gamemode

And yeah, the rewards are kittening hilarious bad.

It’s not dead because of balance, jeez you sound salty af, it’s dead because they changed the reward system, so the new blood we were getting into PVP was basically cut off, since you can no longer get Ascended Gear easily(You need to have a lot of gold and profession crafting up to 500 now). It translates to not worth the time to many people, nor the headache and toxicity. Now before someone says it was the right decision and true PVPers don’t need PVE rewards, That is a closed and selfish mindset to have. True it’s not needed, for exclusive SPVP players but other players that are invested in Spvp might also play other aspects of the game(Fractals/Raids/PVE/WvW). By having that exclusive game mode player mindset, it’s setting the standard, exclusive Spvp players don’t need nice PVE skins aka dungeon skins, LS skins, etc on reward tracks. You reap what you sow, you don’t want PVERs in your matches enjoy long queues and the slightly less one sided match ups.

Oh so its all about artificial attention to a gamemode (rewards) instead of actual genuine interest and fun. Good job dude.

If you’re wondering why the game mode is dead compared to S5 yes. The people who’ve genuinely enjoyed spvp for a long time, that player pool has always been small(smaller now), hence why we have what we have now, it’s just reverted to the pool of main spvpers, (not to mention pvp is sorta content droughted). Not to say the players that farmed the game mode only for ascended armor (Throwing matches semi afk)weren’t exactly good for the gamemode, but do you really believe every single person that joined because of the rewards initially on S5 didn’t become genuinely interested in Spvp after a bunch of games? Conquest isn’t perceived as a fun game mode at first glance, since the general base of the game mode is to capture and hold objectives nodes, though play it long enough and it starts to grow on you and you start to find enjoyment out of it

The rewards acted more of a push into the water for new players. The people that despised the water(game mode) got out of the water asap(after they got what they came for) while others didn’t think it was so bad and stayed in and they were getting a fun experience and benefiting from it. Though i guess keep thinking balance is the sole cause of S6 queue times being the way they are.

XxsdgxX.8109:

Told you guys, balancing around the top 1% absolutely never works. (Yes I’m talking about gutting high skill floor classes like Rev and leave alone (even buff) cancer low AF skill floor ones like Zerker, DH)

Enjoy your dead gamemode

And yeah, the rewards are kittening hilarious bad.

It’s not dead because of balance, jeez you sound salty af, it’s dead because they changed the reward system, so the new blood we were getting into PVP was basically cut off, since you can no longer get Ascended Gear easily(You need to have a lot of gold and profession crafting up to 500 now). It translates to not worth the time to many people, nor the headache and toxicity. Now before someone says it was the right decision and true PVPers don’t need PVE rewards, That is a closed and selfish mindset to have. True it’s not needed, for exclusive SPVP players but other players that are invested in Spvp might also play other aspects of the game(Fractals/Raids/PVE/WvW). By having that exclusive game mode player mindset, it’s setting the standard, exclusive Spvp players don’t need nice PVE skins aka dungeon skins, LS skins, etc on reward tracks. You reap what you sow, you don’t want PVERs in your matches enjoy long queues and the slightly less one sided match ups.

I think the damage is fine, but I think it needs personally, is not to root you.

A better rework idea I had of Spirit Weapons would be to to have them function like Ventari’s Tablet on Rev. Keep them timed summons but untargetable. When they’re out, you can command them for effects. Spirit Weapons will despawn and go on cooldown if you move too far away from them. They are also affected by your stats. Spirit weapons are stationary and will only move when commanded.

Hammer of Wisdom – Command Hammer – Command your hammer to strike the targeted area knocking down foes and creating a symbol of protection. for 3 seconds. Cd on command skills would be 5s. Tether Range 1200

Sword of Justice – Command Sword - Command your sword to move to the targeted area, dealing damage as it travels (Whirlwind Attack animation). Create a Symbol of Wrath at the end of Sword of Justice’s destination. 5s Tether Range 1200

Bow of Truth – Ranged Ground Targeted Summoning/Command Bow-Command your bow to fire on a targeted area for 4 seconds healing allies and clearing conditions, creating a Symbol of Judgement at that area for the duration of the bow’s channel. 10s CD on command. The bow is stationary once summoned. Tether range 1500.

Shield of the Avenger – Command Shield- Command your shield to move to targeted area and create a Symbol of Faith. When commanded Shield of Avenger will create a bubble that absorbs projectiles for 6s. CD 5s on command. Tether range 1200

They already have the tech to do this since Ventari Rev exists, I think it just mainly needs to be worked on. This will make spirit weapons a lot more fun to play imo.

Cynz.9437:

1) point was, there were stacked dhs pretty much every match
2) someone asked what specs they were running, i answered, simple as it is
3) the problem, once again, is stacked DHs…. they amount of damage and support they bring is just not balanced. Yes, single DH has weakness, the stacked ones not so much. I will just bring warriors as example (which are arguably best bruisers atm), if i stack warriors, not much changes because while they bring great dps and great survival they actually don’t bring no where near as much team support as DHs do and this what i have issue with. If DHs want to dps, let them, but they shouldn’t bring so much team support with them. If they want support, sure, but at costs of damage/point pressure. And as side note, they still have by far better mobility than said warriors on top of it. The lack of trade off is what has been killing pvp since HoT came out.
As far as ele goes, ele doesn’t bring nowhere near as much damage/on point pressure like DH…. i don’t understand how can you even compare.
4) WvW is irrelevant because of food/runes/gear/lack of objectives. Ghost thief is useless in pvp for a reason. My point is, i wish devs would treat traps equally. Because right now DHs traps are by far superior to traps of other classes. And as my point above – there needs to be a trade off. Too much dmg, on point pressure, support and mobility in one spec is never a good combo, not to mention in case of DH a very easy combo to play on top of it, turret engi level easy. There needs to be a trade off, the skill floor needs to be raised. There are 10000 ways to do it, e.g. traps rework.

1)Stacked DHs yet are they all the same build, or is it a result of build variety? Your argument for stacked DH trying to throw the entire profession under the bus as being OP because it’s stacked. In case you didn’t know stacked means more than 2 on one team at a time. So again is it stacked because it’s OP or is it because of build variety?

2)You didn’t answer it simply, you gave me a answer saying rarely full trappers, but burn guard more often than trapper DH, but the regular for you would be between symbolic(point holder) and Medi trapper(DPS). So a variety of 4 different specs possible specs combination, excluding the rare support guard variant I didn’t even bring up.

3)Same as 1, though honestly, I think you’re really over estimating the effectiveness of the support a DH actually brings even when stacked. Outside of a frontal 4s block on high CD with the possibility for traited stab, a ground targeted leap heal with possible 3 condi removal for teammates that you hit(traited) and a few aegis(1 block)? Will these keep my necro from being plowed by the other team’s focus, can this support really replace a ele support?Can you not counter guard blocks with unblockables and SoC with positioning?

Your example with Warrior is poor too, considering that while warriors don’t bring the team support a guardian brings since they’re more of a selfish class by design outside of shouts and banners they bring better lockdown capabilities, compared to DH (Shield Bash, Headbutt, Skullcrack/Skullgrinder, Pommel Bash.)

Your argument is the support DH brings while damage they do is isn’t balanced. The best support is ele, while it very minimal damage, it’s a class that can single handedly keep a entire team alive, while the amounts of DHs stacked as DPS specs is nothing compared to what a single ele can give in support, Ele lacks the damage but essentially can be a immovable object especially against Guardians/Dhs.

The trade off system is moreso just revamped now, considering E-specs are in the system . Tradeoffs will be when there are more E-specs present, if you balance around core and nerf E-specs to core level, when they release another E-spec we’re going to be back to square one, where the new released E-Spec would be the best in slot. Core specs need something else to make them competative against E-specs rather than just trait changes, since that affects Especs too.

4) It is actually relevant considering that WvW is a form of PVP, and in WvW thief traps are far from useless and even considered cheese out there. If stealth did contribute to capture point you’d see more thieves abusing traps. Your scope is really narrow since DH traps aren’t the only ones victim of E-spec skills being better compared to other professions baseline counter part utilities, look at DD Physical utilites compared to Warrior’s. Druid’s Glyphs compared to Eles, Necro and ele shouts compared to Guardian and Warrior shouts, Scrapper gyros to Spirit weapons?

DH has nice damage, good point pressure, okay support, and general mobility is meh but good combat mobility with sword. Your thief bias is showing, the only spec that’s turret engi level of easy to play on DH would be the full trapper build but you decide to throw the whole profession on the same level.

Suggestions for Changes and reworks on sigils

-Stacking Sigils-
These sigils just need the way they gain stacks on change, rather than gaining them on kills, they should grant 1 stack for every successful hit landed. reduce the max stack to 15 stacks, and make each stack last 10s each. Sigils that consume the charges after gaining max charges function like normal.

-On crit/On hit Chance-
Either go by a charge basis, like you gain one charge on hit/crit at X amount of hits activate x sigil effect. Have the charges last 5s each, and once the sigil procs it goes on CD. If not then have it function like Guardian’s passive Virtue of Justice requirement.

-On swap sigils-
They’re fine as is.

-Passive sigils (Agony, Venom etc)
If you want people to really utilize these sigils they’ll need to do more than just duration increase. Something like 20% Duration and 10% effectiveness increase on specific condition. (Example would be like Poison would get a bump from 33% to 43% healing reduction, and does 10% improved damage etc.)

Sigil of Restoration – health of kill is pretty bad for Spvp, should just make it a 10% increase on outgoing healing

Cynz.9437:

Lucentfir.7430:

Cynz.9437:

Kuya.6495:

-Snip-

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Happened a lot to me, was whole reason why i started to play scrapper this season so much. I have been qing a lot with mesmer friend and had to listen pretty much every match his moaning about yet another DH murdering his AI on point.

As far as specs go, it really varies. Full trappers are rare though. I would argue i saw more burn guards than full trappers. Generally majority in my matches were symbols and medi trappers.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Poelala.2830:

Thank you for the compliments but I was referring to mainly how mechanically simple DH is and how that will eventually lead to its downfall because players will inevitably get better. I was not referring to its place currently because it’s in a good, yet unstable spot.

Nah new season will start and again we will have tons of posts proving that avoiding traps is to hard…after five seasons in row dealing with the same build.

GL avoiding layers of invisible traps left on a point by couple DHs, meanwhile while you try to focus one of them in team fight, he rides on group heals, group stab, group protection, group aegis and worst case worst, gets instantly rezzed by buddy DHs.

I really wish DH traps would be designed like thief/ranger traps and DHs wouldn’t have support range of core guardian – maybe then they would realize issue with the spec.

1:) And it happened to me a few times, and i swapped to ele and made their team comp ineffective when i came across it assuming we didn’t have a ele already, good to see you’re picking up something else to help deal with your problem now. Also killing clones is a way to lessen damage output unless he’s thinking DH specifically shouldn’t be able to kill clones on point?

2:) Full trappers are rare but they still appear, it’s a braindead play style like D/D Thief or Ghost thief in WvW except you’re not dealing with perma stealth with DH, you’re dealing with burst AoE.

It varies because DH/Guardian has multiple build paths, and not just one unlike other professions. Unless you’re saying that in every match every DH runs the same build because it’s bork af?

3) Normally you would think this is how it all plays out as you describe but it actually doesn’t, DHs are really squishy without blocks, necromancers ,warriors, and people with unblockables can make minced meat out of a DH trying to Rez. It’s not like revenant where I have infused light on Rezing or just glint heal itself, DH can get sacked by cleave and DPS, and they’re even easier targets when they’re ressing with shield up because you can go behind them and still cleave downed and the DH. I’ve been in that situation before, thinking I could probably get the guy up, but no the other team was smart enough to pop me with CCs and damage and still got the kill while I wasted survival tools trying to get the person up.

Everything else you described can be done by a ele , and done better outside of Aegis and group stab. Group stab is tied to F3 using virtues line, that’s blowing a big CD, unless you’re talking SYG, then you’re probably describing a support shout DH.

4) You actually say that when WvW has ghost thieves even being complained about how bs it is? Rangers don’t use their traps anymore because they used to be throwable from a range, now you have to awkwardly get into melee range as ranged condi class to output low condi damage? If you ask me they should probably make them throwable again and bump up the stacks per pulse. What you say about wishing DH didn’t have access to guard support range doesn’t make sense. If it didn’t it would be a stand alone traitline and weapon just like how if you removed Thief from Daredevil you’d just have daredevil as one traitline, set of skills and staff. Unless you’re willing to clarify what you mean?

Cynz.9437:

Kuya.6495:

I never understood the concept of claiming a class is op because you use it to mow down lower ranks.

I can get on fresh air ele or condi engi and wreck people in gold and unranked too. Doesn’t mean fresh air ele or condi engi is meta or op. The only thing about the number of dh players says is that the class is easy to learn and use.

Except plat/legend was also flooded with DHs (but somehow all DH mains would always ignore my posts when i posted screenshots of 4-5 DH teams from plat/legend queues) and the trend was that teams with most DHs usually won the match. If anything, i don’t understand people that continue to spread fairy tale that DH is OP only in low ranks – DH is broken in high ranks as well due to how profitable it is to stack the said spec, higher ranks also don’t change the fact that DH spec is too rewarding for little to no effort. And once again, there is issue that this very spec carries really bad players from low ranks in high ranks where they actually have to rotate and look at map once in a while but since they don’t belong at those rating they just do a lot of stupid mistakes and drag teams down – have seen it way too many times.

No it wasn’t, it was rare to get stacked DH on a single team, it happens but rarely., my experience from playing in Plat range, a appropriate team comp will beat out a DH stacked comp easy. Especially when you have a support ele and players that aren’t trying to kill themselves by throwing themselves into awful positions. Also you didn’t specify what spec, DH has multiple specs to play from, Symbolic Point Holder, Support, and Medi trapper, Burn DH/Guardian and braindead full Trapper.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Solstace.2514:

Isn’t ele considered a counter to DH? You may have to take that into consideration.

More or less depending on the build and what you understand by counter.

Ele (healbot meta build) has no damage so he might kill really bad thief in 1v1.

Depending on dh build ele can make him useless giving reflects to whole team or make his sad trap burst disappear by pure heal) or just annoying denying any kills from condi.

Funny fact: overpopulation of dh in queues and his return to meta tier was thanks to removal cleric amulet used only by ele^^.

Ele does Counter Guardian, mostly the healer support variation of ele, making them very ineffective in teamfights not to mention the DH has 0 chance of even killing you unless you’re just kitten ing like a idle bot for excessive amounts of time. Burst DHs will eventually get forced off the point, unless they’re symbolic point holders.

Fun Facts: Much needed QoL changes on Sword and Scepter also pushed DH/Guardian back into the meta(Symbols on weapons so they better synergize with Zeal and WoP in Honor, and no more dumb reflectable AA chain.). Along with the removal of Merc and Cleric amulets.

DrDivine.5378:

What’s obnoxious to me is warrior has always been labeled as the starter class, easy to use utilities, easy to pick up and is strong. Even as a warrior main I can agree with that.

but then everyone who plays Dragonhunter will say “It takes real skill UNLIKE WARRIOR” when they just spam traps and kill people with very little thought. It’s so easy to pick up and play and do a lot of damage. I don’t even really play guardian in general but I made one and sometimes I kill people I don’t even focus on. Like they’ll step on my traps or I’ll shoot them with the longbow and then “oh cool, they’re down.”

The matchups are just way too forgiving, outside of tempest DH can really handle most 1v1s and such effectively, there isn’t really class that makes a DH say “Oh no I definitely can’t handle that it’s too strong”

Not true, druids that don’t play bad, as well as Scrappers are things that I say I can’t handle. Warriors that know how to use SoM are very scary, but as said before it could go either way. While both DH and Warrior are easy to play, Warrior is easier just for the fact once they get Berserker mode they can just run into your face without a care in the world since pulsing stability, with other buffs ,and a spammable burst skill that rewards them tier 3 usage of AH and CI. Also I have to admit 6k Headbutts are very Lulzy.

For Mallyx builds originally when it first started out the idea was to copy and manage conditions. That was the idea behind Mallyx and the corruption line, when it was first unveiled. or at least what I originally thought when i saw it. To give back that feel of what Mallyx was originally. As far as Revenants go I kinda want to throw out suggestions.

Pulsating Pestilence- Bump this up from 3 conditions copied to 5 when you legend swap, and also make it copy 1 condition on elite use on a 1s ICD, pulsating elites like EtD will have it pulse. Bump the range from 240 to 300. Reasoning would be it’s a grandmaster trait, most grandmasters need to have a iconic or powerful effect that sorta defines the build you’re making.

Bolstered Anguish - Make the damage modification on this trait affect condition damage as well.

Frigid Precision - In addition to applying chill on crit, chill also applies immobilized for 0.5s. Currently this trait is outdone by proc’d boon removal with confusion aka Spontaneous Destruction, and would offer a nice control aspect in Master tier between more damage from Bolstered Anguish, or boon removal with confusion.

Replenishing Despair - Either remove the internal cooldown and bump up the heal about 200% or keep the ICD and make it heal you for every condition you have on you when you get one applied. Example 1 condition =126 healing, 5 conditions =630. Whatever this trait was intended to do to help survive against conditions, it isn’t doing it.

Diabolical Inferno - Have this trait also apply a unique debuff to enemies that amplify condition damage done to them by 10% for 5s. Sadly it’s just a attempt to improve a bit of Rev support if they decide to go condition damage, Condition Revs will always be outdone until they have Torment do more damage to idling foes in PVE, Rather I’d jsut like them to improve the damage to where it’s not a massive drop in damage if the enemies are not moving but very minor.

Banish Enchantment - Instead of a line passing through, eliminate the line up affect and just make it into a 300 AoE around the target. It’ll be more convenient that way instead of trying to awkwardly line up moving targets to hit with a tab targeted skill.

Azoqu.8917:

Darknicrofia.2604:

After testing GS, its still an inferior melee set compared to sword/focus to pair with LB.

And LB is an inferior ranged weapon to scepter.

Both GS and LB are better in Teamfights imo.

The general thing between S/X vs GS is that S/X has better stick(in-combat mobility) and sustained DPS, and safety utility with offhand defenses. Though the pros of GS is that it has much better cleave and AoE burst than S/X. Not to mention you have another tool to pull people through ToF. Granted though S/X is still probably the safest pick between the two, especially with the blasting light field change, since you get more defenses for sustainability.

IMO since I mained GS on guardian for a long time, they should do the following:

- Bump up the might stacks on the AA chain from 1 stack to 3 stacks for every person hit as well as bumping up the AA damage like 5% on all three skills.

- Whirling Wrath should either lose the movement impairment for using it or at least lessening it.

- Also please, please make it puke whirl projectile finishers like Warrior offhand axe it’s disappointing to only see 1 fire off for using it in like a fire field or dark field.

- Damage of Whirling Wrath was a nice step to fixing the weapon’s niche, but what I’d like to see maybe is having a damage scaling component or a short unique buff tied to how many consecutive hits you land with it, up to like 2% for every hit you land projectile and melee up to a maximum % increase ofc.

-x- Reluctant to suggest this change but making Whirling Wrath reflect or destroy projectiles. I know warrior has wanted this on offhand axe for a long time, maybe it’ll get it too but I think it might help out in choice against S/X setups, but it starts to fill the attack and defense at the same time scheme everyone complains about. Kinda want to hear what anyone else thinks of this.

- Zealous Blade needs to be changed to something else, or they need to really bum up the healing numbers to around 100-150 per hit. Also i never understood why they normalized every damage modifier base of trait tier except this trait. Fiery Wrath itself is in adepth and gains 7% while ZB gets 5%, not only this but even Warrior having a similar trait location in strength Forceful Greatsword provides 10% damage and the ability to generate more might. ZB should also be equalized n the modifier section of the trait.

The most iconic thing about GS is Whirling Wrath, it’s pretty much the weapon’s bread and butter skill for damage, and the only real skill that sets it apart from other guardian weapons.

But you can just trade ascended shards for skins…already.

mrauls.6519:

I could see 25% making sense if Guardian had crazy quickness uptime. It needs to be 75%

I’d rather have more duration once it’s active. 8s will put it in a very nice spot imo. If you put it to 75% Burn guards are just going to be sitting full healed for 6s. Considering the fact that LoW takes account all damage sources including retal. and not just direct damage.

@OP % increase could be good too but making it cleanse Condis when we have Smite Condi on heal? Going a bit overboard basically a possible 5 condi clear on 20s CD, with WoR for another 5, smite condi on another. Seems a bit much imo.

R O C.6574:

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

Taking risk is the point of gaming. It is the heart and soul of playing a “hero.” Sadly, the community has largely taken up the idea of minimizing risk and maximizing gain.. even at the cost of diminishing the game.

This has nothing to do with “the community.” and everything to do with how winning works.

Humans are intelligent and humans will exploit any risk you take. “High risk” only works if your opponent is bad.

No. “High risk” only works if you stick the landing.

By the way, are we calling Mesmer high risk/high reward? I thought they were OP…

When I think high risk, I think Berserker Thief

High risk high reward build, I have said before, Fresh Air ele. In between the lightning procs to air attunement, you have to position ground targeted AoEs into some of your burst combos, manage kiting and manage your defenses well otherwise you’re very much dead. Thief at best is moderate, with on demand disengage on demand, stealth/target drop and damage with less the effort.

High Risk High Reward builds are not competative in the world of Conquest Spvp, maybe in a arena style 1v1s yeah, but most of the time now a days High Risk High Reward builds are something you take to duel servers or WvW roaming for garnering respect for playing something not many people know how to play. This is why we see mostly the safe meta builds in ranked, rather then the risky skillful builds. Because running super duper high risky builds are minimizing your chance for winning the game for your team, since most people look at it in a light where it’s what do you contribute to a team?

Fun fact: If you’re only out for the Ardent Skins the vendor has a special tab for the skins themselves that only costs Ascended Shards of Glory.

While i don’t like the fact they did change how you purchase ascended armor and weapons, but all this change does is inconvenience player’s who do all of Gw2 content(AKA people who like to PVP, but like to do fractals and raids, and WvW) or the people saving their shards trying to decide which alt to put the armor on.

dace.8019:

ANet: Hey, let’s fix those under used aspects of Guardian.
Me: Wait, you’re going to do something about Spirit Weapons?
ANet: Haha, no.

Still, I liked the changes, generally, especially to virtues whose CDs have been ridiculously too high for 4 years.

if I recall recently from a Dev post they said they wanted to do something with Spirit Weapons but they don’t have the resources or the tech atm to do so?

mrauls.6519:

Oh My God F1 feels so wrong

Welcome back to beta Spear of Justice, the only thing different is that it’s still unblockable! Instead of 0.75s cast time and blockable. I had my heart set for 0.5s cast time, but oh well 0.75 is what we get.

JordanJD.3209:

Does damage increase work for condi damage as well?

http://prntscr.com/ebrgde

Also confused why you wouldn’t run sigils of bursting for perma +6% condi damage, and sigils of fire for burns on crit.

No it does not, unless it specifically states. Seeing this is PVP oriented the sigils he uses are for cover condi. If I recall correctly too bursting was 6% of your condition stat, not a 6% damage modifier. Sigil of fire does AoE damage if you proc it. It does not apply burn.

Going out on a hunch but I think we’re starting to approach the border of getting a new Ex-pack unveiling soon. Meaning we’re going to get more elite specs. The system itself is massively power creep’d at the moment considering that every class only has one elite spec atm, which far out weighs core’s spec, except the rare cases in selective parts of the game. Though when the second expansion rolls out we’ll have it more balanced out with the second set of elite specs appearing.

Granted core specs are going to always be slightly behind , due to the fact whatever you do to core, also almost always benefits Elite Specs in a way except for profession mechanics. Example seeing base guard being the better burn guard output with changes to VoJ burn procs. etc. The only way I see bringing up core specs back into the fold of this, is giving them special bonuses for not running a elite spec.

To be fair this balance patch looks more aimed at PVE side of balancing with a bit of Spvp balance thrown in. Not really a full blown SPVP balancing. I mean just look at the changes themselves.

Cynz.9437:

Lucentfir.7430:

Cynz.9437:

@Zenith.7301: you compare core specs to elite specs, ofc elite is broken compared to core….
Mes is still king of disruption, thief was also supposed to be king of stealth, roaming etc. yet their job was given to mes and revs. Anet also gave stealth gyro to scrappers because reasons. Anet also gave revs and scrappers reveal on demand. Where were you when thieves were trash in s1-2?
Mes also have high dps, many chose the condi road because it is safer, provides more for the team and allows you to hold point, thieves don’t have that luxury, just saying.

So you agree elite specs are broken compared to core, yet before that you actually compare core to elite trying to prove that PI needs a nerf while mes shouldn’t get touched by nerfs i assume? Good joke.

I actually would argue that even core rev is still way better than some core specs from original classes.

Also, what would you do if you were 2 pts away from legend division and had 4 thieves on your team that refused to/couldn’t switch? I will tell you what happens in 100% of such cases: people troll, rage and report thief players because they know in most cases such scenario is a loss. Why? Because thief is extreme liability and there are very few good thieves because making class work is everything but easy (compared to safer profs like DHs and co. at least) and yet you are here yelling for thief nerfs.

To be fair with the bolded comment, Thieves are still kings of stealth, still on demand stealth with D/P and it’s just no one wants to take Shadow Arts since it doesn’t help you with conquest node capping and you get dodge spammability with daredevil .

go play core thief, look where that supposed stealth gets you and how much stealth hate there is atm

I’ve actually played Core thief, the only real reveals come from Revenant, which you can predict just by looking at what legend they’re on and even dodge the reveal. The other reveal would come from scrapper but it seems everyone is running Elixir over Gyro. It doesn’t work as well in Conquest because perma stealthing= no cap contribution hence everyone runs DD for dodge spamability, but as I said before they are still kings of stealth it’s just stealth isn’t effective in conquest. If stealth did contribute to caps, you’d see all the stealth camping builds arise.

Cynz.9437:

@Zenith.7301: you compare core specs to elite specs, ofc elite is broken compared to core….
Mes is still king of disruption, thief was also supposed to be king of stealth, roaming etc. yet their job was given to mes and revs. Anet also gave stealth gyro to scrappers because reasons. Anet also gave revs and scrappers reveal on demand. Where were you when thieves were trash in s1-2?
Mes also have high dps, many chose the condi road because it is safer, provides more for the team and allows you to hold point, thieves don’t have that luxury, just saying.

So you agree elite specs are broken compared to core, yet before that you actually compare core to elite trying to prove that PI needs a nerf while mes shouldn’t get touched by nerfs i assume? Good joke.

I actually would argue that even core rev is still way better than some core specs from original classes.

Also, what would you do if you were 2 pts away from legend division and had 4 thieves on your team that refused to/couldn’t switch? I will tell you what happens in 100% of such cases: people troll, rage and report thief players because they know in most cases such scenario is a loss. Why? Because thief is extreme liability and there are very few good thieves because making class work is everything but easy (compared to safer profs like DHs and co. at least) and yet you are here yelling for thief nerfs.

To be fair with the bolded comment, Thieves are still kings of stealth, still on demand stealth with D/P and it’s just no one wants to take Shadow Arts since it doesn’t help you with conquest node capping and you get dodge spammability with daredevil .

Windwalker.7421:

ToF is definitely OPd in the damage it does. There is nothing remotely comparable in the game. DH in general is ruining everything up to Gold tier, and is allowing very low skilled individuals to ride to Gold much much easier then they would on any other class aside from maybe Warrior. (Which any sane person seems to agree is also OPd.)

I don’t mind DHs getting boosts in horizontal ways that promote a healthier and more skill-based play-style, but the current Medi-Trapper is pure EZ mode. And yes I’ve joined the bandwagon many times myself to experience this first hand. It’s pure and simple EZ mode…just button mashing gets you through at least Silver, with absolutely no real clue as to how to play the build. I’m sorry that the skill ceiling is also low, this should be improved as well, but the skill floor MUST be raised!

In the history of this game, many many profession/build combinations have been mutilated that were far less problematic than the Medi-Trapper build is ATM. When you continually see the same profession/build getting both top stats on damage and healing, you know something isn’t right. Those should be two diametrically opposed stats that should almost never go to the same player. DH has way too much healing and group utility for the damage output they do, which of course is also why Medi-Trapper is the meta build that the vast majority of Guardians flock to.

That is not coincidence, that’s called FoTM. (Or season in this case!) And it needs to be toned down.

Talk about salt all you want, we’ll see who is salty tomorrow.

Basically every soldier profession is OP, I got ya. ToF damage is strong, but tbh without it, Guard’s damage is poor, now if they improved weapon sets to do good stand alone damage I’d be on with shaving ToF. Regardless of what happens tomorrow I’m still be playing guard, I’ve been through thick and thin with it. Also ToF damage OP comment, i found this more amusing, wouldn’t call it OP though.

NotASmurf.1725:

Poelala.2830:

NotASmurf.1725:

phokus.8934:

NotASmurf.1725:

DH would be fine if F1 and F3 got nerfed. F1 should either take longer to cast, be on a higher CD, or be blockable. F3 needs a duration decrease, show me one other block in the game that doesn’t need to be channeled and lets you do your full burst while its up.

F1 is fairly easy to dodge in a 1v1,2v2 setting. There’s also a theme of unblockable skills in HoT so that won’t get changed.

F3 is completely fine as it is. Its arc is pretty small so you can still attack them by moving to the side or going behind them. You can’t escape with it (back turned) because it virtually does nothing to stop attacks.

F3 covers everything except attacks from behind (so 75%) and it’s kinda impossible to get behind the DH in 1v1 and 2v2. “you can’t escape with it” that’s not the point of the skill. Nothing should make your nearly invincible while applying the same amount of pressure as always except now unhindered.

All you need to do is set up an aoe, make sure the DH is in it, then port behind him and it’s gg.

That wouldn’t work on trash mobs letalone players.. what keeps the DH from turning around taking maximum 1 hit from the AoE?

F3 makes Dh way more tanky then it should be on a dps build, same problem revenants had before being nerfed into the ground.

When there’s more than one player it’s easy to do since we are talking about conquest. Revenant in Comparison to Guard DPS, pre-nerfed Revenant had much more damage than guardians. Revenant could kill support/Bunker eles by themselves that’s how much damage we’re talking, while most guards will either eternally stalemate or get forced off due to the using up all of their CDs. As for making DH tanky? It’s more so just a illusion of tankiness, without SoC or any blocks for that matter it’s just as squishy af. Things with unblockables will explode you. DH is no where close to tanky as something like Scrapper, or Druid unless you’re aiming to run a point holder build aka Symbolic Menders.

Cynz.9437:

Jake.5279:

too bad most of the complainers are the vast majority of silver and lower tiered players who don’t want to learn the class and its counters and just scream for nerf. Funny thing is, if DH is nerfed even slightly it would spiral completely out of meta as it’s barely hanging in atm.

Lucentfir.7430:

Jake.5279:

too bad most of the complainers are the vast majority of silver and lower tiered players who don’t want to learn the class and its counters and just scream for nerf. Funny thing is, if DH is nerfed even slightly it would spiral completely out of meta as it’s barely hanging in atm.

You forgot a majority of thief players. We’re probably on our way to sit next to Revs assuming anet keeps them where they’re at. Though my hopes are really are just the full trapper build getting neutered for low mid tier, or diminished trap damage on same trap types, to discourage stacking.

plain generalization for the sake of argument without any statistics to back it up

@OP: I can also drop same general statement like you.
“DH is too strong, it’s not weak, it’s not where it needs to be. Nerfing it now would not make it another revenant. There are OP aspects about DH that you can’t outplay beside sheer luck and random dodges.”

What exactly am I setting a argument against? All i said was he forgot to include most thief players? I’ve been here long enough and read through enough post to get a general idea of thief players on these forums, since they practically flock to DH OP threads like a moth to a flame, so i don’t need any statistics to say otherwise.

DH is in a good spot atm until tomorrow maybe, and as I said before full trappers should probably get the bat because that’s a braindead one trick pony build, with too much reward tied to it for killing nubs or classes that lack the tools to handle every trap at one single spot.

@notasmurf While it’s not a block it’s actually better, Obsidian Flesh is all i have to say. Invuln on a lower CD than SoC with free will to act and do what you need to do, with no vulnerable spots. Also blockable spear is horrible, it was blockable back in Beta and it was very unreliable to connect. Slightly more visible wind up time or projectile speed adjustment should be the way to go if you’re wanting something to be done with F1.

Welcome to the world of guardian torch users. It’s been the same for as long as I can remember to hit it consistently used to be a skill back then.

Jake.5279:

too bad most of the complainers are the vast majority of silver and lower tiered players who don’t want to learn the class and its counters and just scream for nerf. Funny thing is, if DH is nerfed even slightly it would spiral completely out of meta as it’s barely hanging in atm.

You forgot a majority of thief players. We’re probably on our way to sit next to Revs assuming anet keeps them where they’re at. Though my hopes are really are just the full trapper build getting neutered for low mid tier, or diminished trap damage on same trap types, to discourage stacking.

I think personally for a master trait, and a class with spammable daze, it could do with a damage nerf. I mean the only other relatable trait next to PI would be Power Block, and that’s a GM trait and has lower damage. Playing on different classes 1 interrupt on most squishy classes=5k and higher, I’m pretty sure I’ve been hit with a 5.2k PI proc on warrior with Yak signet, and no toughness amulet. Also 900 range goes to HS, but can actually also be 1200 range if you factor in traited thief steal aka Slight of Hand..

Ocosh.5843:

Lucentfir.7430:

I’d understand if deflecting shot was tab targeted like true shot, but it’s a skillshot, and heavy light itself is the only reason for it to knockback which is a GM trait. By removing the unblockable affect from DS itself it’ll basically make the weapon unreliable, not being unblockable means it makes it reflectable, destroyable, and a singe block or aegis will nullify it meaning no pierce. And you eliminate the reward of hitting your skill shot via setup pushing through ToF or getting breathing room from people coming into melee range. If you want Rev to actually pressure DH, making phase traversal giving you 2-3s of unblockable attacks will do it. Though I’m curious on how standing still with Shield 5 or throwing up staff 3 is helping you pressure someone.

I had considered the “skillshot” aspect, and it’s a fair point — it’s nice to reward something that requires a little more attention than the normal attack — though the skill demand is somewhat diminished when it’s point-blank range. Still, the fact that the change would make Deflecting Shot less powerful is kind of the point. The question is if this would hamstring DH against other foes.

Look, I’m not trying to start a “my class vs. your class” silly forum argument, so there’s no need to get defensive. I don’t main either class. I can say that because of the Heavy Light change rev shield is essentially dead weight against a DH (actually shield 5’s usefulness is rather limited overall at this point). Mobile blocks, like staff 3 and sword 4, however, allow the rev to stay on top of the target, rather than ceding ground because of traps or symbols (and they also blind and chain into an immob, respectively, but that’s again a case of HoT skills doing everything).

Re: projectile shutdown. It was even worse in earlier seasons. I agree it’s an issue and it’s one reason guardian was a no-show for a couple seasons. I’m not advocating a return to that. If anything, I’d say it highlights the back-and-forth power-creep in the design of HoT skills and weapons. I could certainly be underestimating Deflecting Shot. I was simply suggesting a simple change that could effect a shift in the playing field.

I’m just specifically replying to what you brought up in your post, and it’s aimed against DH vs Revenant specifically. I’m not getting defensive. Though on topic Shield is a dead weight against a DH only? Well i mean you’re standing still when you’re in shield 5, which equals easy targets for anyone with unblockable skills, and skill demand point blank usage, isn’t supposed to get harder with any skill unless you’re directly inside their hitbox and you’re both moving around, or do you have a example to bring up in terms of skillshot that requires more skill the closer your target is?. DS isn’t the only thing that will ruin Revs blocks. Warriors with might signet will ‘can’ you, Necros staff unblockable fear will ‘can’ you as well, and so on and so forth with unblockables.

To answer your question yes it would hamstring the entire longbow playstyle against professions that already bring boats of projectile hate. Which is why I said in the previous post, if you’re aiming for Rev to be a guard worry, then Phase Traversal getting
a X seconds of unblockable attacks instead of just 2 attacks would be the way to go.

I’d understand if deflecting shot was tab targeted like true shot, but it’s a skillshot, and heavy light itself is the only reason for it to knockback which is a GM trait. By removing the unblockable affect from DS itself it’ll basically make the weapon unreliable, not being unblockable means it makes it reflectable, destroyable, and a singe block or aegis will nullify it meaning no pierce. And you eliminate the reward of hitting your skill shot via setup pushing through ToF or getting breathing room from people coming into melee range. If you want Rev to actually pressure DH, making phase traversal giving you 2-3s of unblockable attacks will do it. Though I’m curious on how standing still with Shield 5 or throwing up staff 3 is helping you pressure someone.

Supreme.3164:

kdaddy.5431:

ummm i have the pictures at plat levels of engys and druids hard countering the DH/warrior teams i was on.

Maybe there is a issue when its class stacking which is a match making issue.

You can even see in Helseth and sinds tournament that warrior and DH were not even on most teams.

If anything pray for build diversity, pray for skills never used in PvP to get buffs, pray to dwayna for something positive.

I mean Obindo was in a stalemate in a 1 vs 1 against a ranger running rune of the soldier. I mean alot of people know the counter, the question is are you using it?

Now the problem is apparently just “stacking”….DH is completely balanced…when ele was stacked..the problem was the class and not the stacking, despite people desperately trying to say otherwise.

Did people wise up with years? Was it general hate towards eles and people wanting to see the class being completely neutered?

You’re missing the reason why Eles were a target of being nerfed when comparing it to stacked DHs, you never explained the reasoning for it behind those nerfs beside x profession stacked and then Y profession stacked. People forget how obnoxious the bunker meta was in S1 where first caps=wins and how Cleric Ele in later seasons were pretty much nigh immortal at that time, not only this but they single handedly dragged on teamfights.

S5 Ele is still a mandatory thing if the other side has one, granted it’s not a carry class like warrior or DH or even thief for that matter, but your team has a significant chance of winning group fights and general map dominance after, especially if the opposing side lacks an ele. I can recall many times 3-4 stacked DHs on the opposing side, instead of playing my DH I swap to menders support ele and made all those DHs ‘not very effective’. So despite the nerfs and amulet removal, the build itself is still very strong. DH imo can use tuning as far as low-mid divisions go, so no new first timer DH just insta gibs other players by placing all traps down. However higher tier seems okay for now, though we’ll see what happens Wednesday, and see if a new FotM ez class emerges from the buffs and nerfs coming.

Having a system limit 1 profession per team which is pretty much 5/9. Locking profession like that means if you try to relog on something like ele when your team already has one you won’t get back into the match unless you switch to a profession that your team doesn’t have. I guess it’s asking for too much huh?

The only thing top stat should count towards is more pips for rewards. That is it. If you tie rating to top stat not only are you going to have people trying to push for top stat rather than making the right decisions to win the game, you’ll also be leaving it out as a exploit for people to try and utilize. It’s even proven, giving NA a inch on gaming the system or cheaping it out, they’ll do it. Look at how they game’d the decay system and leaderboards, and p2w matches.

BigKev.1927:

Abelisk.4527:

There are so many great duelists out there, it’s hard to name them all. Kronos, Ash, Raineee, Dicocco, Min, Forsoke, Shadowplane, Mur, Eradan, Helseth, tooooo many GAH

Rain and mur are in my guild. god squad op. Currently 6 of us, and all known relatively well in dueling servers. With that being said, here is my list for duelist on each class which I personally believe are top notch. This is for NA btw

warrior: Rosales lionheart, that guy is a beast. Omnidus is pretty good too
rev: I agree with you on this, ash mistfire is something else on rev
mes: Shadowplane is pretty kitten good
guard: Thermite is probably the best I’ve fought. Kronos isn’t bad either. One of the other guys in the guild called god of oceans is pretty kitten solid, but I don’t really get to fight him since we’re usually playing together
theif: Haise, min, and korno are solid choices. Kraale as well
ranger: a guy named anet pls is really solid. Kraale is also pretty nasty on druid as well
ele: lol

Keep in mind, these are people who come to dueling servers so my list is obviously flawed but yea, these guys are still really kitten good

I’ve fought Rosales way back Pre-HoT, he’s definitely a really good warrior, he’s also the reason even as a guard up to this day I fear competent warriors.

Mur is also a very competent player as I’ve experienced in a duel server. Dicocco is also a top notch ele who’ve I had a blast fighting 1v1 pre-HoT. I’ve fought Naru in a 1v1 tourny before HoT and even during S5, he’s very good.

Shaogin.2679:

Lucentfir.7430:

I’m on the fence between solo and premades, I’m mainly a solo queuer. On one hand it’s true that not all Premades are on coms, but on the other it’s still a advantage. Going into ranked as a premade, ranked is generally a place where you want to maximize your chance of winning the match, so coms is to be expected when you see premades, I really think people are just using the “it’s a team game” argument as a excuse. When you solo queue or duo, you can’t cherry pick the other 3-4 players on your team, while they aren’t cherry picked you still get a team. So technically it’s still a team game just not the type of team forming you want.

Now if Matchmaking balanced team distribution right as in like one team gets a trio queue the other team gets a trio queue as well (3, 1, 1 vs 3, 1,1) I’d be for supporting that. But what I’m guessing people want, is to have premades back to farm solo queuers when they propose team queues be brought back. If people just want to have fun with premades unranked is there, if they want a competative team, well there needs to be tournys or a way to fight other teams like a guild/team queue(With majorly improved rewards or even ascended shards) or setting up scrims with other teams.

Who is wanting mixed queues? Here I thought people wanted a team queue completely separate from solo queue. But you’re probably right, obviously people here want a 5v5 only queue so they can hack the game and farm the players in the completely separate solo queue.

Unranked is a great idea however. How about ranked queue be for 5-man teams only, and solo queue players can have unranked since you guys think it is so great?

If you mean a actual 5v5 premade only queue I’d support that as well, but I recall someone saying the pool size for 5v5 is too small to have it’s own queue. If that’s changed though by all means it has my support to be added in.

I’m on the fence between solo and premades, I’m mainly a solo queuer. On one hand it’s true that not all Premades are on coms, but on the other it’s still a advantage. Going into ranked as a premade, ranked is generally a place where you want to maximize your chance of winning the match, so coms is to be expected when you see premades, I really think people are just using the “it’s a team game” argument as a excuse. When you solo queue or duo, you can’t cherry pick the other 3-4 players on your team, while they aren’t cherry picked you still get a team. So technically it’s still a team game just not the type of team forming you want.

Now if Matchmaking balanced team distribution right as in like one team gets a trio queue the other team gets a trio queue as well (3, 1, 1 vs 3, 1,1) I’d be for supporting that. But what I’m guessing people want, is to have premades back to farm solo queuers when they propose team queues be brought back. If people just want to have fun with premades unranked is there, if they want a competative team, well there needs to be tournys or a way to fight other teams like a guild/team queue(With majorly improved rewards or even ascended shards) or setting up scrims with other teams.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Idk but A mod should lock this, otherwise the DH mains will storm saying that’s dH is still trash tier….

There’s no need for the last bit, most DH mains know we’re actually in a good tier now, just not ESL tier since no ESL. Comments like that last bit make you come across as a salty thief. But yeh, mods should lock this thread.

choovanski.5462:

Zintrothen.1056:

Hunter.4783:

2k damage on Trueshot is a joke…vs classes running viper or other non toughness gear.

two thousand….non crit? A non crit isn’t suppose to hit ridiculously hard. A crit would have done almost 4k in Marauder, and this is against toughness. I’ve seen True Shots hit me for more than that when I run a vitality amulet on any profession. You may want to actually equip a power amulet and see how much damage it does with a crit. True Shot was nerfed because it did far too much damage for such a low CD, and it’s still too good. It just needs a longer CD (6-8 seconds is a good start) though and not a further damage reduction.

you do know that it’s an 8 month old post you’re arguing with right?

I don’t think he does. Especially when this post was made in the era of un-nerfed scrapper, ele and 50% damage reductions on Bulwark Gyro and Phantasmal defender, not including merc amulet and clerics.

There’s more thieves in your match than Warriors and Guardians. It doesn’t help that there’s double thief on the losing side.

King Cephalopod.7942:

I think elite specs were a mistake, and core specs of all classes need worthless traits to be fixed. E.g. Retributive armor.

Nothing is more worthless than Radiant Retaliation. Elite specs are probably going to be balanced around having other E-specs, unlike having the only one we have now. The specs ruined and better’d the game at the same time. On one hand we have power creep, in the other we’d be complaining how there’s no new utilities or traits, and stuck with the same stuff for x amount of years. Adding more available tools to the mix will always complicate things and other tools will grow obsolete.

Instead of converting another condition, perhaps it’d be better if using shouts gave you and your allies resistance when you have PoV on. I would go with Brutaly’s suggestion too, but that’s sorta treading in Warrior’s Shout niche.

Vicariuz.1605:

Zietlogik.6208:

Vicariuz.1605:

LULxDxDxDxDxDxDxD

That’s a lot of hotjoin

Not much else to do when ranked/unranked have never been fulfilling in the slightest and once u get legend theres no point to queue. Old farmboards were just as lame and easily as gamed. i do somewhat miss paid tourny matches tho, at least back then u could tell who was good.

side note, all that hotjoin allowed me to play any class any build, might not be esl, but i get queued against them on the reg xD.

^^^ I pretty much share the same sentiment.

One of my favorite little details about this patch, catching a white mantle woman having a fake conversation with a rich swordsman behind closed doors. It was hilarious. :]

NaXorb.9732:

Lucentfir.7430:

Yes make stealth contribute to point capture, and then let everyone feel the pain of WvW roamers over 4 years, with ghost thieves, and PU condi mesmers. More fuel to the thief nerfbat. Do it Anet. -insert Kappa here-

No one said anything about WvW, I suggested the change to PvP only. Yes, it would be too strong with WvW’s huge nodes, but in PvP’s small ones it should not be a problem,

No what I’m saying is make everyone(People who’ve only ever stuck to Spvp) suffer what has existed in WvW over 4 years, perma stealthing debauchery. You’ll have ghost trapper thieves and PU Mesmers stealth camping all day, It’ll be a problem.

I would rather have a chair emote, to better reflect the different tastes of seatings of the other races, and you won’t have the horribleness of what you have in the Priory classroom.

Yes make stealth contribute to point capture, and then let everyone feel the pain of WvW roamers over 4 years, with ghost thieves, and PU condi mesmers. More fuel to the thief nerfbat. Do it Anet. -insert Kappa here-