Guild Wars 2

You know DH could stand to take a few nerfs. Symbol Damage on one-handers going down, Shaving a second or a second in a half could of Shield of Courage could help too, though Anet is probably going to nerf traps more. Also I’ve gotten around playing base guardian again, and find Wings of Resolve being shorter CD than actual traited Virtue of Resolve a bit iffy. Design was said DH was supposed to be a selfish spec. In short if they’re going to hold true to what was expected, i’d say the active effects of virtues should be selfish, Wings of Resolve should only affect yourself, as well as Shield of Courage. But you know this is only assuming that everything else remains the same in terms of amulets. I’ll bet if you put something equivalent to Dire or Merc amulet in the mode you’ll find necro back inside the meta, and a flood of condi chornos, and condi zerkers. You can say all you want about how badly designed you think DH is, but don’t think other classes are designed any better.

Thief players saying we have too many passives, there’s only 2, Valorous Defense, which is 1 block at 50% and Hunter’s Determination which I think should really go. Bringing in passives of virtues, they’re more used for their actives instead of their passives, unless you’re saying they make such a major impact with, 2s of burn every 5 stirkes, 87-108 healing every second, or 1 aegis every 30-40s. And complaining about instants? Kinda like Steal on thieves, Shadowstep and attacks from stealth? Or Charged Mesmer Mantras? Pretty sure we’re not the only class with instant abilities.

When will we be able to get this set available to WvW players. Any time soon? Perhaps there’s a secret way to unlock them?

I want to see how OP DH is when you add both Merc amulet and Cleric amulet back to SPVP.

I’m too burnt out to reply to threads like this and it’s posters appropriately atm. Zelulose seems to be saying everything about guard is OP and needs to be nerfed to the point any half decent thief can roll over them, to where they’re a liability over any other class, because supposedly they have better everything in one kit and it’s skillless. Despite outside the realm of thief and guard there are 7 other classes that exist.

@Fay, well i mean if you get hooked I don’t think it would make sense to dodge something that’s already connected to you.

@Yasha basically want it to be as kittencorpion Wire. Okay.

TheDevice.2751:

Lucentfir.7430:

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

Here comes another guardian…

Do you even play guardian? LB3 can actually change elevation during its course.

Yeah, one is ranged and the other is melee. So what? Whats your actual point there though. Finish the thought.

Guard LB3 Multi-hit unblockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while destroying incoming projectiles and blinding everone it hits and has a 10 second cooldown. Now think of all the other skills used by a guardian, all the other skills on the LB etc.

Necro GS5 Multi-hit blockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while chilling them. Has a 30 second cooldown. (also gets really buggy when determining the FREAKING PATHING (lol) when using action camera. Why does the Gaurds LB3 get to have the freedom of ground targeting. Why not also make it work the same way as GS5?)

So yeah, I still think its obviously bs.

BTW: you’re talking about CC’ing multiple enemies every 10 seconds which is UNBLOCKABLE. I mean whatever I’m loving it right now playing DH lol. But please, continue your defense. Not like you and the other guards weren’t complaining about them being underpowered a while ago.

How did you know guards were underpowered, if I may ask? You did think they were underpowered right? I’d like to hear your explanation.

And, I edit because I have a tendency to want to add something or find that I mispelled a word. Not really sure what you were trying to suggest in that comment.

I am a guardian main true, but I dive into other classes as well, I have perspective. You’re obviously not getting what I’m saying. Go ahead and use Deflecting Shot on someone standing on higher elevation, like in Khylo, because obviously it will move up the wall like you seem to say it does. The only time it will actually move over any wall is if you can jump over that wall yourself, if terrain pathing allows it.

Your discussion is based on 2 entirely different playstyles and and weapon function. A better comparison would be if you were comparing Ranger’s Point Blank Shot with DH’s Deflecting shot if you’re trying to compare things.

How I know guard’s were underperforming? Self explanatory. Anyone who played in S1-S3 would know of all the things present around those times. Cleric Babysitter Ele, Merc amulet for condi classes meaning Reaper and Condi chrono galore stat survivablity and damage, Longbow 5 changed, True Shot nerfed. Not to mention there was no synergy between traits and one handed weapons(Sword/Scepter) at that time.

I mistaken your BTW as a edit, but it’s still a hint of what you’re really trying to say.

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Zintrothen.1056:

This is such a typical thief thread. OP posts that thieves are OP. Thieves come in and defend, claiming that they are OP in absolutely no way.

News flash! Everyone is OP! Including thieves. Just because you’re “weaker” than everyone else does not mean that you are not OP and that you’re build doesn’t have faceroll skills. Condi thief is absolutely the most unskilled build in the game. However, D/P is still more versatile for conquest and is therefore a better build overall. It also happens to take more skill to play. In fact, I think it’s one of the most skill based builds in the game. The contrast between power and condi thief is mind blowing. One is the hardest and one is the easiest.

So dear thieves, quit acting like you’re weak. Just like you’re telling everyone else to L2P, tell yourself that. Of course you’re going to have a hard time against good players. Good players tend to do that.

So pretty much like every single class that defends their class from stupid nerf threads?

Look at all threads about nerfing classes, look how vehemently that guards defend their low skill floor build, Condi Wars, and Mesmers all defend tooth and nail from stupid nerf threads and their answer is always L2P. Nice try though

Then no idea why people will throw L2P at other people against their class, but gets salty when they get thrown a L2P comment themselves.

Kuya.6495:

This thread reminds me so much of dh whine threads

Simply buff thieves with some QoL things that give them more build options, and then you have the recreated DH whine threads, but with thief, or they’ll turn into warriors and say everything is fine, once they get something outrageous. Like true one shot backstabs.

Tissitra.4153:

Lucentfir.7430:

Tbh, you can bring up total amount of healing calculations and all, but it doesn’t mean squat, due to various variables in fight that can occur in a fight, and most of it looks likes it’s using these skills off cooldown the instant you get them. Wings of Resolve is not instant, and sometimes even a mistake using over renewed focus when being heavily pressured, getting randomly CC’d mid leap or dying mid leap happens more than you think. This is what I think should happen because I main this class, and I play other classes as well.

-Remove Hunter’s Determination – This passive trait is just…kinda way too strong for a passive on CC’d trait proc. -Damage/Daze(traited)/1-5x Aegis/Stability, this alone shuts down so many openers and just flips it on whoever opens. It needs to be replaced.

-1-H Symbols – They could use a small damage shave, so it’s more in line with their cooldowns. Compare to GS/Longbow/Hammer.

Traps – In general i’d like to see something like Shadow Trap from thief. A active portion of the skill. Popping it early gives reduced cooldown, or gives another beneficial effect. Doing this will also stop the doubling down of setting traps down, and getting double use after CDs get back up

Test of Faith – Remove the initial damage, add about 10-20% more damage to crossing the line. Beta ToF didn’t have initial damage on proc before. getting knocked into it or pulled should be rewarding since you’re expending cooldowns to do so. If possible, fix shadowsteps so you don’t take damage for porting out or into it.

Purification- A small 5-10% shave should do it well. Shaving this though i’d like to see things like Litany of Wrath buffed longer duration and higher percentage Damage to Heal ratio, so we have a alternative heal, next to shelter for DPSers. Though shouldn’t be needed if the trap changes happen.

Light’s Judgement – It’s the only trap not ever used, even against stealth class it’s pretty bad. Either buffing to longer duration of reveal, or pulsing blind and immobilize.

- Agree about Hunter’s determination – though not remove, but just longer cooldown
- You point out that actual healing in combat is different from the ideal numbers. That’s true, but it’s true for EVERY profession. I would make the point that if the total healing available to DH in the ideal case is three times what you get on thief or ele in the ideal case, then you would expect this proportion to be about the same in non-ideal cases. More so if you factor in that the TOTAL cast time of ALL the skills that heal a DH outside of renewed focus (which grants invuln. while casting) is actually just 1,5 seconds (0,5 seconds purification, 1 sec wings of resolve, rest instacast).
- Here is how a 10% shave to purification would change the sustain of the symbolic build: The healing in the course of 30 seconds would go down from 30k on average to 29k on average. This is just to point out that if this is the only change in sustain, then IN TOTAL the healing would go down only by about 3%. Whichever way you interpret this number is up to you, but I don’t think it would be practically noticeable.

Longer Cooldown seems to be a quicker fix for this though it’ll still be a problem of stopping initiations in it’s tracks. Healing is different in many cases. DH for example I have to use the skill and make sure I use said skill properly, otherwise I’m left with less condi clear or no stunbreak. Compare to Engi and Warrior now, engi’s sustain wasn’t tied to any real CDs. their sustain stems from Regen mixed with Rapid Regeneration, elixer gun, boons and Bulwark Gyro. This was back in S2 and S3. Warrior Sustain pretty high now too. can easily reach 900 HPS and about 1k if you get dogged march to proc or another source of regen. But that sustain is tied to hitting burst skills which isn’t too hard considering Berserker mode burst skills can be quite spammable. There’s a reason why previous seasons a scrapper could just bully a DH off the point easily you know despite heals.

This is also another thing I don’t get either, you’re comparing thief and elementalist healing capabilities with a guardian when they’re all entirely different concepts, and the only thing comparable in your argument is the health pool. They’re nothing alike, Thieves can dodge about 6-7 times in a row, and access to invis which drops targeting which can be much better in some cases than a block. Ele’s healing in the past seasons, healing affected the entire team, not just themselves. They could keep people alive and prolong the fight for a long time not to mention dish out projectile hate easily.

Take into consideration that base Purification is 30s CD untraited. tuning it 10% tunes it to around a 7.7k heal in total(forgetting the regen), from 8.6k heal. That puts it under our other bigger heal Sigent of Resolve. for about 8.1k, 35s untraited. It would definitely be noticeable to those who use Focus Mastery over Smiter’s Boon.

Olba.5376:

Lahmia.2193:

Final Thrust seems like classic Anet thematics over practicality. Sword is a condi weapon and Final Thrust just doesn’t fit in. Give it a Feast of Corruption overhaul.

Sword actually functions pretty well regardless of your build. Final Thrust has a very high damage modifier and the mobility from Savage Leap is awesome. Sword can also function as a hybrid if you opt for Viper stats, as that’ll give you good condi damage while maintaining decent power for Final Thrust.

Personally, I had been waiting for something like Viper’s so that Sword could reach its full potential.

This is true though i still think sword should get a bit of a direct damage buff on the Autos, to give it a more threatening punch if you want to focus more on the power side. I think offhand sword needs help though still, Impale/Rip need to either provide benefits for ripping the blade out of someone, or Rip needs a bigger direct damage buff or additional stacks of torment.

Tbh, you can bring up total amount of healing calculations and all, but it doesn’t mean squat, due to various variables in fight that can occur in a fight, and most of it looks likes it’s using these skills off cooldown the instant you get them. Wings of Resolve is not instant, and sometimes even a mistake using over renewed focus when being heavily pressured, getting randomly CC’d mid leap or dying mid leap happens more than you think. This is what I think should happen because I main this class, and I play other classes as well.

-Remove Hunter’s Determination – This passive trait is just…kinda way too strong for a passive on CC’d trait proc. -Damage/Daze(traited)/1-5x Aegis/Stability, this alone shuts down so many openers and just flips it on whoever opens. It needs to be replaced.

-1-H Symbols – They could use a small damage shave, so it’s more in line with their cooldowns. Compare to GS/Longbow/Hammer.

Traps – In general i’d like to see something like Shadow Trap from thief. A active portion of the skill. Popping it early gives reduced cooldown, or gives another beneficial effect. Doing this will also stop the doubling down of setting traps down, and getting double use after CDs get back up

Test of Faith – Remove the initial damage, add about 10-20% more damage to crossing the line. Beta ToF didn’t have initial damage on proc before. getting knocked into it or pulled should be rewarding since you’re expending cooldowns to do so. If possible, fix shadowsteps so you don’t take damage for porting out or into it.

Purification- A small 5-10% shave should do it well. Shaving this though i’d like to see things like Litany of Wrath buffed longer duration and higher percentage Damage to Heal ratio, so we have a alternative heal, next to shelter for DPSers. Though shouldn’t be needed if the trap changes happen.

Light’s Judgement – It’s the only trap not ever used, even against stealth class it’s pretty bad. Either buffing to longer duration of reveal, or pulsing blind and immobilize.

Kind of hoping in addition to bleed on the third chain, they up the power damage on both sword and offhand sword. I long for the days when it had Final thrust on the end chain :<. I want to see Impale→ Rip get buffed too, it sort of needs it.

I think what probably has to go, after thinking about it a long while is Hunter’s Determination. It’s a big contributing offender of skilless play, not to mention it does too much for a passive on CC’d proc. You stunbreak, you leave a trap, that damages and dazes and gives stability. On top of that it does provide aegis up to 5 you can pick up, From what I can see it straight out denies CC openers for a long time. The trait needs to be replaced with something else.

Traps need to start cooldown on trigger. Giving them a manual activation with some added benefits like shorter cooldown, or lingering AoE damage or boons would help out a bit for compensation.

mrauls.6519:

Lucentfir.7430:

Shelter is fine where it is, though Litany of Wrath could use either higher base heal value or a higher %Damage conversion to heal. or maybe 1-2 seconds more on its duration. it had its niche pre-DH, and the thing going for it was the lower CD, than Shelter, but with Purification in the picture there’s almost no point.

Shelter only gets used by some Guardians in PvE. I think it needs to be reworked. The CD should be low (as in 20 seconds) or it should give you a boon. Or shoot, make it so we can attack while blocking…

I normally swap to Shelter, if I’m not traiting for traps(Piercing Light and Hunter’s Determination), or if there’s Double Power Rev on the other side. If you want to at least fix shelter, Shelter needs to front load the heal on use rather towards the end. That way if random unblockable rupt lands, you still get the heal, but you lose your block and have it go on full CD as always. Or they can jsut reverse it, and make it not go on full CD if it gets interrupted. What I really want to see made better is Litany of Wrath, that needs a bit of love.

Shelter is fine where it is, though Litany of Wrath could use either higher base heal value or a higher %Damage conversion to heal. or maybe 1-2 seconds more on its duration. it had its niche pre-DH, and the thing going for it was the lower CD, than Shelter, but with Purification in the picture there’s almost no point.

TheDevice.2751:

Opc.4718:

The damage stats is quite misleading, the amount of damage you do is going to be doubled or tripled when you fight against anyone with AI pets, especially MM necros and mesmers.

Why is there always an excuse? A guard can do 2x the damage he showed and probably all the guards on forums will come and say “well, erm. actually its because blah blah”

No other prof can get away with it but guards can? Nah man. Tired of DH/burn guards ruining this entire season. 100-0 nearly anyone while blocking everything their way.

If there’s pets/AI numbers are obviously going to go through the roof in the stats category, since the new one hander symbols are pretty frequent. You’re hitting 5 targets a lot of the time, since it’s lingering AoE, especially with the Writ of Persistence trait in honor to last longer, adding trap AoE. The only guards that can 100-0 someone are trapper guards, and normally insta gib happens when you get eaten by Dragon’s Maw on top of 2 other traps without any blocks or mitigation.

Tissitra.4153:

Aeolus.3615:

We actually need to press a button for a “Passive block” ?… that needs to be timed against a heavy skill?

So that is a passive that 2 Automatic auto atacks can resolve…

The only passive guardian has a block it is the 40/30 sec on virtue… all others are active and need to be timmed againt certain skills.

Guardian/DH w/ob locks dies faster than a thief, guardian is a squishy class due its low health and heavy armro is just arround 7%-10% damage reduction , reason it needs the blocks to feel sturdier.

Go play as a mace/shield shout build and tell me how many matches u can win, or tank really awfull bad players.

Yeah of course DH just DESPERATELY needs to be able to heal fro 20k every 30 seconds and have more blocks/invuln than everyone else. And surely the only reason you see everyone and their mother playing it is simply that people pity it so much…

When you put it that way, I can say the same thing about other professions, like a thief desperately needing to dodge several times in a row, not including evades on weapon sets, blinds and shadowsteps with nearly unmatched mobility and stealth to boot to get out of almost any situation if it turns sour and you’re better elsewhere. I can go on about other classes but it’d have to list it all.

The reason everyone is playing it because everyone is hoping on the bandwagon like they normally do thanks to metabattle, some aspects of DH are overtuned, namely one hander symbol damage and possibly traited purification. With those QoL changes they brought down Ele and tuned Scrapper which were our counters. which brings us into the meta now.

Well it’s certainly is offensive, though, it’s pretty much a yolo build , without honor+ Menders, or without valor medi heals, you’re going to flop under pressure, especially in Melee, since your set is double melee it becomes even more of a problem since you’re running exuberance over travelers, and everything is a lengthy CD on your bar.

Suggestions – If you really want to run that, i’d say try longbow over greatsword, or Scepter Shield. and swap out those exuberence runes for Travelers or Pack, otherwise you won’t be able to keep up or even kite well for that matter without any sustain.

Zelulose.8695:

I have been a 1 year ranger main 2 year mesmer main and now am a guardian main. Mesmer is still strong yet I can waste every other class on mesmer litterally almost full hp (which is not ok) except maybe verses a bunker scrapper which stalemates 1 vs 1. Guardian however is a fast loss it is like going from god mode vs every class to weak on my main. Here is the irony. I swap to my guardian re-duel and win (Note I am using tourny builds during these duels).

Now playing what I feel is a decent guardian. I have Identified the sole problem with guardian. It is not their damage, their healing, their condition removal, any of that. It is 100% their casting speed. Meditations are instant and so is judgment.

I hope this proves insightful as to the issue. Right now guardian is the only class that can dish out 10k damage in utilities and passives instantly. This does not include weapon skills. This is not a damage issue ignore the number. It is the instant cast time. and unblockable nature of the daze/damage of Test of Faith. Smite condition is also instant. If these had a cast time they couldn’t be used instantly and simultaneously. This is the core issue with guardian not the damage. Simultaneous casting. They have the ability to use all their utilities while using a weapon skill without waiting or interrupting cast times. It would be ok if this was purely defensive but it is not. It is offensive. A very good guardian can near one shot 17k hp players with this kind of syncing of utilities. I am talking very specifically about the symbol/medi/trapper.

The best way to fix guardian is to simply give their utilities 1/4 second cast times each and allow players to block the f1 skill. (or telegraph it better because it is very fast) note that right now spear of justice pierces and is unblock-able so as soon as a player uses a duration block it is basically a free hit or free block disruption. Regardless, they need the following:

1. An actual cast time on utilities
2. A longer react-able f1 skill so players can react.

The reason it seems like guardians is strong is that players can’t counter play an instant skill Dodge is useless verses that. Especially when they are unblock-able. If they cannot react to it. They cannot dodge it. They can only get lucky. This is bad for competitive pvp as it takes skill from the game. This is why mesmer shatters were given 1/4 CD after shattering so they cannot quad shatter. Also it is telegraphed by clones running at you.

Again Players cannot counter play instant offensive skills .

There was a time where Smite Condi did have a cast time, frankly no one really ever used it. Then they changed it to instant cast which was all for the better. Back in HoT beta Test of Faith didn’t have a initial damage proc or a target cap nor did it have boons. Spear of justice used to be slow and blockable, it would almost never land and really unreliable.

sinject.4607:

-Text-

1. No where did I state i wanted all traps nerfed , if you read the OP he wants 5s arm time on DH Traps, or in his form of idea of changes. From the looks of your post you think it’s a rational idea, since someone else tries to discredit him and it’s suddenly a lame post. I’m baffled any decent player could think that would be a rational change. Even if it meant operating with the way other traps function, which also further proves my point of balance bias. You’d be willing to let those other traps fall more into garbage just because the you want a class nerfed.

2. So I’m guessing every single DH runs Shield and Honor. There’s no other variation that would swap out weapon sets, or use different traitlines like virtues, or zeal, or even radiance. So they always have 5 applications of aegis at hand. Okay it’s clearly the symbol build you’re after.

3. Your idea of reworking traps, like nuking it to 4k on use, and 4k on active, and you only get that 4k if they actually get damaged by it, that would make it the wonkiest hit or miss heal next to Arcane Brilliance. I’m perfectly fine with a shave to Purification though. Other things things towards working to fixing traps would be like fixing porting out of ToF so you don’t get hit as if you walked across it. Giving Traps a activate button, so you can’t just pop a new one after the set ones activates if it came off CD. Hunter’s Determination and Fragments of Faith getting a small cast time can work too while retaining its stun break like Well of Power does.

sinject.4607:

Lucentfir.7430:

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

Even though this is a fine example of the false equivalency fallacy I’m 100% okay with this considering neither Druid nor Daredevil will ever use our absolutely horrible traps.

in fact you could give Druid/Daredevil traps a century long cooldown and it would have zero effect on how often they’re used, because nobody is using them in first place lmao.

how do you even have that much time invested and not already know this?

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

650 × 5 different unique sources of Aegis (activated once each) = 3.2k

3/10 attempt come back to me when you’re willing to address the actual imbalances of DH and not just stammering out “b-but people are complaining about traps” even though there’s validity in much of these arguments as well considering the inherent balance dynamic of traps in Conquest and how this was clearly disregarded in their design.

what you’re committing here is called the straw man fallacy.

please look up the basic logical fallacies before posting further. this goes out to all DH posters.

Then why do you bring the matter of the OP being discredited or argued against for having 8k hours on guard and calling it a lame, I have 8,6k hours on my main class ,can prove it and discuss rational balancing? Moving on I know not many or even any of the traps are used on thief and ranger right now but you just further the point of biased balancing. You’re willing to back up a ridiculous change which would globally affect all utility skills just to nerf what DH has because “lol thief traps and ranger traps aren’t even used anyway lol!”

3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1),
That is what you typed out, FYI aegis stack in duration not stacks and if this is in reference towards Fragments of Faith, you have to walk over them to pick them up, and you can only pick them up if you don’t have aegis, not to mention if you lost aegis on top of one you would have to walk back over it because it won’t register if you do. You’re not guaranteed to pick up all 5 every single time.

I’ve seen various posts of complaints, people are complaining about one shots while the others are complaining about on point pressure from Symbols, and sustain on blocks and heals. I’ve already said I’m expecting some damage tuning on one hander symbols and other shavings but you seem to be on rather promoting some very outrageous changes rather then having rational balance discussion, and again you make it hard to take you seriously, with the way you post.

Furious.1283:

Why would this bother you? It’s just a title, it means nothing.

Be as it may, you still had to make the effort to play the games to reach Legend, even if you were carried by MMR or grinded all the way to legend with x amount of games previous seasons. On anets part, its a bug because they had some weird coding that didn’t allow them to implement this season’s title in which left progression on previous season, when last season’s should be historic. It ruins the prestige, and if there’s anything that Spvp has that any sort of prestige right now its the titles. It’s just like the GWAMM title issue before.

sinject.4607:

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

When i go DPS orientated with GS longbow, Soaring Devastation is quite good if you’re not going to be running more than 1-2 traps with that being, it’s great on full medi builds if you decide to roll that way, oftentimes if you can land double symbol (Longbow 3→ WoR→ GS 4→WW) You can decimate people who got caught by the combo, especially running in zeal, and with the immob from WoR they’ll have to sit in it unless they cleanse it fast enough or pop a good bit of defensive measures.

sinject.4607:

Drafigo.4690:

Bud I have to say that your list is garbage especially coming from a guy that only plays Thief! I absolutely hate playing with guys that only play thief! Being honest here, most have no clue how to play SPvP! Most have no clue how to do anything but they started playing it because stealthers are always the best.

I completely disagree with your DH list!

issues with Guarding are not there traps its that alot of their other skills are not so good. For example I wish they would make spirit weapons much better and work them over. Guarding has really for the most part no speed unless you kitten your self somewhere else. There are issues with most of the classes in this game but you list is mainly a list of stuff you cant beat so lets cry and shout nerf!

Vote Vermin Supreme 2016, Why not we get a free pony!

im just gonna ignore DH posters. you guys are the most inane and self-obsessive players in the game and add nothing but “DEAR GOD PLEASE DONT NERF PURIFICATION” to every conversation about balance.

you can fight it all you want, DH’s healing isnt gonna go unchecked.

See its post like these that make people not take you seriously, on top of being someone who plays thief(since it could be seen as biased hate against your hard counter.) Also don’t act like thief players or any other X profession players are any better. Everyone sounds the same when discussing about class balancing. With the bold comment above, they’d have to check druid, and scrapper sustain, and don’t think thief evades paired with mobility and stealth is perfectly fine either in that case.

Henrik.7560:

Don’t even try to defend your stupid class lol, yeah you have all your traps on the point so we can easily dodge them, but guess what ! your traps are ready to be used again so after we dodge first lock bam goes second lot, so i dodge out of it, – 2 dodges, all endurance gone. oh no but then i’m pull into it, knocked back out and dead. however, if i manage to successfully get thus far, and land some decent burst, they don’t die. they’ll get to 5% hp then heal all the way.
I have played DH this season to see for myself, it’s easy win win win, I want a fun meta, not an easy path to legend.

I and other players have played DH for all 4 seasons and probably longer, where were you during these 3 seasons when it was so easy peasy to legend? Hitching a ride on X meta profession? The only thing that’s changed really is F2 getting a much needed baseline, and symbols on 1 hander weapons, which is pretty much QoL for base guard. , and another amplifying reason is there’s rarely any tempests now. Though it isn’t hard to see the newer symbols might need to be tuned a bit and with the way everyone else is complaining, purification and other traps are probably going to get shaved too.

Swink.5172:

Okej cool kids.

FYI prob way better then you at dodging. That is however not the topic. Just you kids acting up with assumptions. Leave that off the table please.

Guardians are, IMO completly wrong designed and stupid. I guess you two both play guardians, you quite fit the profile. Compared to what they do they hurt way to much, they have way to much block, stability, invulnerability and condi cleanse. They dont really do much for the output that they have. Just a class for stoners that are too high to press buttons.

Again, rework it!

You probably haven’t touched a guardian before the patch that gave base guard QoL changes. I can’t really trust your opinion or agree with it because your post just says too much of X and everything about Guardian is OP, worse designed class ever. And you don’t offer anything other than the words rework, or how to rework leaving your post pointless, nor are you bringing up any other awfully designed classes? I’m starting to think some people are fortifying their salt levels.

Cynz.9437:

afrocrusade.4253:

Daredevil: Passive evades need time cut down. When a condi d/d DD comes at you mashing 3, dodging repeatedly, and pops his signet to just dodge more, then dodges even more with signet, it’s absolutely stupid. There is no way to fight that.

Or: Vault spam and bound spam on point. Easy.

xD oh my sides

I mean Thief does have 1 passive evade but it’s in a traitline that isn’t used alot!

Warrior -

Rousing Resilience is fine where it is since it requires you to be hard CC’d and breaking the stun with a stunbreak to work, and losing cleansing ire means that you’ll have lower Adrenaline gain, unless you hit your Headbutts, which is another thing that synergies with Outbreak or another stunbreak to proc Rousing Resilience.

Arc Divider – Mixed feelings on this one though Arc Divider can be blocked dodged and blinded like other burst skills.

Guardian

Symbols – I’m already predicting some small damage nerfs to sword symbol, though not entirely sure about Smite/Symbol of Punishment.

Purification – Might get a bit of a shaved, though making a heal you can dodge kinda sounds meh. probably forcing people back to shelter because of how unreliable it would be.

Aegis Access – You’ll need to specify exactly what access to aegis you mean, Fragments of Faith? Mace/Shield? The only real passive aegis application is Valorous Defense, and Hunter’s Determination, Virtue of Courage passive is hardly around long enough to get a proc before the active is used.

Renewed Focus is fine where it is.

Druid – The only thing that might be a candidate for nerfs are the the pets like Bristleback and Smokescale. That’s about it.

Daredevil –
2 changes I can think of if you want ideas.

Dash – Getting a ICD on condi removal of impairing conditions, ICD about 3-5s. Though giving them 5% more on the damage reduction.

Bound being classified as a in air.

I know I’ve been featured in some videos, most recent one I can recall was one of Jebro’s videos top plays vid? Some ranger carrying with rez leading to my team flopping in the end.

To be honest this ranking thread and most other will be inaccurate or carry some type of profession bias, skillcap is going to be rated on build more than the profession. Thief should be around mid tier when they have Daredevil slotted. If you want to know what a real high skill cap build is, it’d probably be a Fresh Air Ele.

Anet if you can, please can you adjust the guild hall maps to use WvW or SPVP settings in the arena. Retal and Confusion hit for 33% more (Even more because it uses old un-nerfed Retal and Confusion values.), I think it also uses PvE pet health for ranger pets(Unsure of mesmer clones and similar AI). Just a bit of QoL for duels and other activites in the guild hall, and also to make it accurate to gauge and test builds for WvW, be it roaming or whatever you’re testing said PvP centric build.

Cecilia.5179:

How was this not a thing last season? They didn’t even buff the traps.

Because Eles got taken out of the meta thanks to nerfs on their healing support and cleric amulet removal.

Kuya.6495:

I think it’s great that so many people wana bandwagon trap DH. Means i can just waltz in with my bunker guard and knock them off the point while they wonder what to do.

You know what feels good? Seeing that full trap guard with Procession of Blades, as a Zeal support bruiser DH, knowing he’s probably going to kill himself from team wide retal. I know I’ve made it happen before.

Kuya.6495:

With all the complaining, it’s very likely traps are gonna get the axe. Fortunately, nerfing traps is the best compromise since most of the good DH specs aren’t using dragon’s maw or procession of blades, so most guards probably wouldn’t care that much.

Yeah, plus our class got some much needed quality of life things with the recent patch. ToF is probably getting touched again, and Light of judgment Will be as useless as ever. The only thing people use Procession of Blades for is PvE content for additional DPS, Dragon’s Maw is mainly for the Break bar and not so much the damage, probably won’t matter.

Since trapper DH appears to be deemed skillless, and everyone and their mother is throwing a muck about it, I’m predicting what will happen next nerf patch.

-Traps -

Test of Faith – Probably going to get another damage shave or a CD increase, or given a cast time.

Dragon’s Maw – Either a straight up damage shave or they’re going to split the damage to be overtime.(Even though it’s not used over RF for serious players.)

Purification – They’re probably going to shave the heal on trigger a bit.

-Trait-
Piercing Light – They’ll add a ICD of 2-5s and mess with the consistency of on demand daze chains.

The V.8759:

Ubik.8315:

I don’t even see many DH’s running with longbow anymore. Not to mention deflecting shot has a pretty obvious and slow projectile that you can either dodge or strafe away from.

Imagine using a block. You dodging then would be just as useless as letting it hit you. The skill has a 1/4s cast time, almost instantly. You can’t just strafe that far unless you are 900+ range away.

Skills like Magnet (which is unblockable pull) actually need a long cast time and have a much higher cooldown. Same goes for basilisk venom etc.

You compare A GM trait tied to Deflecting shot and compare it to Magnet Pull and Bask Venom having long cast times and mediocre CDs? Those CCs are tab target or applied if successfully landing a hit. Where as Deflecting Shot is a legitimate skillshot, where you have to actually aim and fire. The projectile moves slow, can neutralize the knockback with stability and can miss if blinded. It’s a skillshot, it deserves to be a good unblockable CC when traited especially with a GM slot tied to have a knockback. Deflecting Shot also has it’s problems as well either with terrain, or something else since there have been some times It’ll look like it dead on hits a person but doesn’t register it leaving them unaffected by the skill.

Darknicrofia.2604:

mrauls.6519:

the KB is unreliable now.

that’s where the skill cap comes from.

separates the mediocre guardians from the gosu ones

This is true, it is a -Skillshot- After all. I also love the fact that I can knockback at any range if it hits, and more than 1 target. Though i will miss the JI Trueshot Knockback combo :<.

Milan.9035:

JTGuevara.9018:

I can’t believe there are people defending condis.

Conditions are not only strong themselves, with sigils they’re even stronger. HoT traits ESPECIALLY make them stronger. Added on top of that, with some builds you can spike them instantly as if you were playing a power build. Warrior mace primal burst is a good example. Conditions can be mitigated through resistance and regen, but resistance can be stripped and regen is just worthless. Cleansing only works once and in the blink of an eye, they’re reapplied. There’s barely, if any, a reliable counter or a method of immunity against them. Before anyone responds, yes, I know about condi conversions and skills like defiant stance, but that’s it. Conditions don’t have a reliable counter to them.

Power builds on the other hand, can be….blocked, blinded, inflicted with weakness, mitigated with protection, invuln AND negation . I mean come on! It’s out of control! There’s a LOT of condi BS right now. Nobody can deny it.

Stupid posts like this really kitten me off.

You are saying condi attacks cant be blinded or blocked???

Lets see the differences….

Vs power you got weakness and protection

Vs condi you got reaistance and cleanse

Looks fair to me….

If youfail to avoid an attack and get hit. vs power you get full damage, if its condi you get time after to deal with the damage.

Spvp, Conditions are supposedly fine, because anet’s idea of balancing is removing amulets. Where as in WvW, things like Trailblazer and dire exist along with food and perplexity runes.

Most Power Specs have to sacrifice defensive stats in order to do acceptable damage. And that full damage gets cut down to really small portions When people have decent toughness, + Protection/% damage mitgation, Weakness. a form of good regeneration. For instance, If I crit(Which is RNG) for say 4k on a attack against someone with protection, that gets knocked down to 2680. Even less if you have weakness and it procs on the crit for a glancing blow, so against weakness and protection the result of your crit 1340 total. Not very much is it? Also zerker/ power classes like that are squishy against the same type of build(maybe aside from scrapper). So factor in blocks, and and other active and passive defense, your damage becomes trivial.

Condi damage, ignores armor, there’s 5 possible sources of damage, Torment, Bleed, Confusion, Burn, Poison. it really only takes one one stat to make work, duration is to make it even sticker increasing in DPS. If you say it needs crit, you only need crit if you have traits that apply a additional stack of said condition. Condition removal is fine but it’s not as reliable, depending on the number of conditions present. if you have 5 conditions on you, and you have a cleanse that only removes 2 at a time, you’re not guaranteed to remove the conditions you want to remove, and most condition cleanses that clear a large amount normally have a moderate or high Cooldown. Yeah resistance exists, but it’s only really seen on Revs and Warriors, and even then it’s strip able. Revs resistance also comes with a high energy cost. Conditions will never do 0 damage just because you can cleanse them, they will always do damage, because if you’re clearing them the instant you get them on you, then you’re not going to be able to remove them when they pile on to get big stacks. Outside of condi clear and resistance, there’s only DD dash that reduces it by 10%, Scrapper’s Adaptive armor which is 20% i think, and Jalis Elite which is 50% for 6s. That’s it. More classes should either get access to resistance or buff condition clearing, or allow more things like protection and weakness to affect condition ticks, or add a stat to reduce condition duration or damage on you. Before you say Vitality is there, know that Vitality also helps against power as well, while toughness does not affect conditions whatsoever.

Indeed, they should nerf True Shot by another 20% and shave All traps DPS by 7 more percent. Also you didn’t read it I guess but uh, there’s a number of times it’ll trigger knock down before disappearing, which is 10, cause wvw things.

If you’re running Glint, Off Hand Axe is required most of the time, I couldn’t really catch up to someone running away from me with ports with just Mallyx Leap, since the energy cost is hefty per use. If you run Shiro though you should keep up just fine, though you’re more vulnerable to getting bursted if you aren’t too careful since no Glint Heal.

Darknicrofia.2604:

what to hear a joke?

symbols

spirit weapons

You forgot 50-75% of Consecrations. Also symbols are actually decent if you can pull off a immob or if someone is that aggressive to mad dog you and fight in them. Another joke is Radiant Retaliation.

In truth though things that will probably help Guardian would be nerfs to other classes, (Projectile hate, passive procs) or some deep revamp into core traits, because alot of core guardian traits don’t make too much sense or the choices are just really underwealming.

Spirit Weapons will always be pretty bad aside from maybe spirit shield (PVE). Due to being Timed AI with lengthy Cooldown, if it were me to come up with a idea for them, i’d make Spirit Weapons a consistent effect skill, like Elementalist Glyph of Elemental Power, that’ll summon a graphic of said spirit weapon attack animation. when you attack, activating variety of effects depending on said spirit weapon utility.

Concecrations, need a bit of something to help it, either reducing the cooldown by a large amount and making a few of them mobile (Hallowed Ground, Sanctuary)
cast able utilities on yourself. Another would be to have them spawn appropriate symbol types on creation so they at least have some Synergy with Zeal and Honor, if Writ of Persistence isn’t going to be changed.

Then general changes, Sword end of Auto Attack chain not being projectiles. Retaliation needs to be something useful!

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

I thought the quote had become a meme now, in anycase I’m not being serious with that post. I’d much rather gets some sort of 25% movement speed trait, or swiftness without having to slot into shouts or using staff.

Scrapper could use a shave to the damage portion since it’s bloated with short CD dual defensive offensive skills that hit hard, either that or they might tune the defensive bits more. Just not enough to completely neuter the class.

Condi Chrono is fine, in spvp sure, since they booted Merc amulet out, so now it’s either wanderer’s or vipers. WvW wise though, where you can have dire and such, it’s probably the most easy face rolly build to play, and win fights with, probably next to a variation of Condi thief that is 90% of the time in evade frames.

Warrior is probably gunna get a slight shave on AH, which is fine, since it’s still over 100% better than the old AH. Skullgrinder is probably going to have its stacks or duration shaved.

Well got to legend now, 96 Games played, 70 won. Out of Sapphire I played a support DH build I cooked up. Breezed into Ruby. Swapped from guard to necro, a bit of engi and ele for achievements for the last of the wings. Had a small hiccup due to net conking out breaking my win streak with at least 2 desertions. Broke out of ruby. Diamond after achievements were done, just hopped back onto my support DH build, hit a small bump after T2, for a few back and forth matches, then afterwards I just had a ride for a 10 win streak I think into the last tier of diamond, then lost a game or two, got the last of the pips to hit legend just now.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAT8en8ABlChFdCuCB8Dhl5BT++1/GgVNgrUAA7IUEqCA-TpBFAB9XGAgDCABHBgi2fQgHAACXAAA

Build I was running, isn’t a great duelist, though it has some really good support. Providing blocks, some heals, team wide condition clear, stability(SYG) Retal, and turning people into mini PbAoE damage bombs. Protective Reviver for clutch rezing along with Fragments of Faith being a instant daze for you to pop with added stability, or just using SYG to get stab for safe stomps.

Just take, Retreat, Save Yourselves, and staff and you’re good!

Darknicrofia.2604:

you want to combine a blocking animation with JI for burst…?

am i being trolled here?

Well I mean it’s possible, with lingering AoEs and being attacked from ranged but running tatgets? Yeah…probably not.

What I find funny is that people make it seem like shaving adrenal health will make it worse than per-change AH, when shaving each stack by 30 to 50 points would still be a significant buff over old AH. Just because of how you get the healing, and having it tick every second instead of every 3 seconds. Also if there was one thing I worried about facing in 1v1s it was a good warrior like dedicated warrior main, not FotM wagon jumpers.

A sign of when things are over tuned or too rewarding and safe to play is when there’s a huge influx of players suddenly playing X class. From observation large flocks of players will move to the easiest and most rewarding builds, that gets posted/shared. But hey anet we’ll see, most here I noticed don’t like finding that middle ground of balance it’s either nerfing to garbage or overturning and arguing to keep it that way, l2p.

I’ve been using Travelers since they were changed to 25% speed, they’re the best QoL especially when guard used to have to run double melee. WvW definitely Travelers, SPVP it’s goes to say pack gives you muuuccch more in-combat offense efficency. Travelers gives you better mobility for getting around better and generally not having to worry about getting swiftness or having it expire.

Anet pls, Rev is still OP, where is the 20% nerf to True Shot and Mighty Blow?