Guild Wars 2

Plok.5873:

That class seems congenial to the Borg, adding other classes distinctiveness to their own to achieve perfection.

You’re talking about the engineer? This thread is about guardians and rangers, not engineers.

All the ways I made gold before are either removed or nerfed, except for TP flipping, but honestly that’s not how I want to play the game plus I simply don’t have the time for that anymore with my current schedule.

I used to do dungeons for gold, but that got nerfed.

I used to do Silverwastes for gold, but that got boring and nerfed with the new event system.

I used to farm Trick or Treat bags in Rata Sum, but that got nerfed.

Then I farmed ToT bags in Bloodtide Coast, but this also got nerfed.

Then I did the Halloween PvP reward track for ToT bags, but that track got removed.

Then I remembered that gathering flax seeds was a good way to make gold… except it isn’t anymore (they dropped to 8 silver a piece).

So, how the hell do I make gold now? And why are all the ways I used to make gold getting removed or nerfed?

I usually don’t like people who complain about “play how you want to play”… but seriously though, what happened to “play how you want to play”?

Nike.2631:

Paffus Piffus.9430:

False sense of pride in not ‘feeding the evil flippers’.

Its not false pride to recognize that the TP is a competitive environment. If the only thing that matters to a player is get it cheaply then by all means follow that muse. Do it the cheapest way you can. But recognize that sometimes when you’re staring at an Endless Batwing Tonic you want but can’t afford, you had a hand in arming the person who is setting that price.

You really don’t understand economics at all, do you?

You think people who sell stuff on the TP just make up a price out of thin air? Sure, that’s how it goes initially when an item is new. But quickly more people will get the item and the price will slowly drop until it stabilizes. The amount it stabilizes on depends on the supply and demand of the item. Flippers have very little control over this (if any at all). The only party that can control the TP prices at a whim is Anet.

Nike.2631:

Shoe.5821:

@Nike: even if you view this as a better method for you – even though its extremely expensive – surely you must recognize that the general population will be using the TP if its cheaper than crafting.

Then they were already well served. Because you’ve been able to buy your way to a precursor since launch.

How is this hard to grasp? The new system is not a coupon. It’s not a discount ticket. It’s just a way to go about your business and eventually get a precursor without relying on RNG or handing cash to other people who relied on RNG.

Or you can go about your business and eventually get a precursor FASTER by simply buying one from the TP once you’ve accumulated enough gold.

I mean there isn’t any law that states you HAVE to grind for gold to get a precursor from the TP. Grinding is merely the fastest way to get gold. But since literally anything in this game gives you gold or materials to sell (except for WvW) you can literally go about your business, play how you wan to play, and eventually get enough gold to buy a cheaper precursor from the TP.

Why waste twice as much time and gold on crafting one? Because you don’t want to give the person who sells the pre your gold? Is that really your only reason? Or do you have another, less silly reason?

Feniks.6842:

Lucas: you want things as efficiently as possible, and that’s fine. However, precursor crafting was never meant to be equal to time/gold*rng chance to the other methods of obtaining it despite your claim that it was (list the source where Anet said precursor crafting was not going to be more expensive than MF/TP before you call them liars).

Some people like to do things for fun/a sense of accomplishment rather than doing it as efficiently as possible: it is for those people the collection is for. If you feel that the collection is not fun for you then just ignore it. And because it was/is meant to be a more expensive way of obtaining it you won’t ever find it fun.

The source is the live stream where they first talked about the pre collection (how it actually works) during Twitchcon I believe.

And you people literally keep bringing up the same counter arguments that really aren’t counter arguments at all.

All these arguments have been debunked countless of times so stop bringing these up:

1) “But precursor hunting was never supposed to be cheaper than buying them from the TP!”

Pre hunting wasn’t supposed to be more expensive either. Pre hunting takes a lot of time and dedication already, so why would it also require a big gold sink? A gold sink that’s actually bigger than the cost of the pre on the TP? That doesn’t make any sense no matter how you look at it.

2) “But it’s not about the cost, it’s about the fun! It’s about offering a method of obtaining a pre that’s less dull than farming for gold!”

And yet that’s NOT what pre crafting offers. Because of the huge cost of crafting your pre on top of the huge time sink, you’re still gonna have to grind for gold to get all your materials to craft your pre. In fact you’re gonna have to grind MORE gold because pre crafting is more expensive!

3) “But pre crafting doesn’t have to be expensive! I can just gather the materials instead of buying them from the TP!”

You could always do that, even before pre crafting was a thing. Just gather materials, sell them on the TP and use the gold earned from that to buy a precursor from the TP. That’s how I got most of my precursors myself way before pre crafting was a thing and even now it’s a better, much cheaper method of getting a precursor than crafting it yourself. I mean, why waste 1000g worth of mats on The Chosen if you can sell the mats, get 1000g, buy The Chosen for 470g on the TP and save yourself 530g?

4) “But you just want everything as fast as possible and as cheap as possible! But some people actually like the journey! Precursor crafting was for them, not for you!”

False. I like a good quest or journey as much as the next person. In fact I vastly prefer going on an epic quest over simply farming gold. But how epic is the pre crafting quest really? Half of the time you’re finishing collections, and the other half of the time you’re still grinding for mats or gold to buy the mats. This would be all good if pre crafting was a cheaper method of obtaining a pre, but it isn’t. It is in fact more expensive! Is the “epic quest” (e.g. finishing collections and grinding for mats) really worth it to justify the higher cost and higher time-sink?

^
Next time someone brings up one of these old and debunked arguments, I’m just gonna copy-paste this list. Maybe I’ll expand the list when new non-arguments pop up.

DavyMcB.1603:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

DavyMcB.1603:

Not one bit. The mastery option only promised to give guaranteed access to the precursors. Nothing less, nothing more.

I don’t care what was promised. What I care about is that crafting a pre is more expensive than buying one from the TP, which is bad and nonsensical design.

Check my post above yours and answer my question:

Crafting a legendary is cheaper than buying one from the TP (which is good and sensible design), why should it be any different for precursors?

DavyMcB.1603:

It is for the people who want to find mats along the way instead of farming raw golds to buy precursors.

You could always do that. You still can even without needing the masteries. The fact of the matter is that you’d be better off not bothering with the precursor crafting masteries and collections and instead sell all your mats that you’d otherwise use to craft your precursor, then use the gold from those sold mats to buy a cheaper pre from the TP.

I said it before and I’ll say it again:

Why would I use those mats I need to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

So I’ll say it again: as it is now, precursor crafting is a complete waste of time and money. You’re literally wasting time and gold if you’re crafting your own precursor: that is not an opinion, that is a fact. Which means precursor crafting as it is now is poorly designed.

DavyMcB.1603:

Plus, the mastery was designed for the whole system not a single buyer’s perspective. In the eye of the system, the RNG elements of the generation of precursors were removed at the cost of something, in this case gold if you want to cheese through it by purchasing mats or time if you want to farm them yourselves. The system compensates for the loss of RNG with increased needs for golds/time. It only makes sense.

No, it doesn’t make sense. It would make sense if crafting the precursor took the amount of time or gold equivalent to getting one from the TP. It doesn’t make sense at all to make precursor crafting more time-consuming AND more expensive than getting one from the TP.

DavyMcB.1603:

You only look at the golds you have to pay. That’s just one element of the whole equation.

And that one element of the equation is already more than the cost of getting a pre from the TP. The fact that you also have to do a lot of collections and chores on top of it only makes it worse.

You don’t even understand how basic economics works and you refuse to lol Trying to explain to you is a waste of time.

You’re the one who doesn’t even understand basic economics and basic common logic on top of that. And you refuse to listen to reason. lol. Trying to explain basic logic to you is a waste of time.

Obtena.7952:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

If crafting a legendary yourself was more expensive than buying one from the TP, would you craft it yourself or just simply buy it from the TP?

…

Why should it be any different for precursors?

Because the implementation for crafted precursors was not about giving cheaper options. It was about a guaranteed approach to getting a precursor.

You said that like 5 times already. But that doesn’t answer my question at all.

Crafting a legendary yourself is cheaper than buying one directly from the TP (which makes sense). Why should it be any different for precursors? How does it make sense that precursor crafting is twice as expensive as getting one from the TP? It doesn’t.

DavyMcB.1603:

Not one bit. The mastery option only promised to give guaranteed access to the precursors. Nothing less, nothing more.

I don’t care what was promised. What I care about is that crafting a pre is more expensive than buying one from the TP, which is bad and nonsensical design.

Check my post above yours and answer my question:

Crafting a legendary is cheaper than buying one from the TP (which is good and sensible design), why should it be any different for precursors?

DavyMcB.1603:

It is for the people who want to find mats along the way instead of farming raw golds to buy precursors.

You could always do that. You still can even without needing the masteries. The fact of the matter is that you’d be better off not bothering with the precursor crafting masteries and collections and instead sell all your mats that you’d otherwise use to craft your precursor, then use the gold from those sold mats to buy a cheaper pre from the TP.

I said it before and I’ll say it again:

Why would I use those mats I need to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

So I’ll say it again: as it is now, precursor crafting is a complete waste of time and money. You’re literally wasting time and gold if you’re crafting your own precursor: that is not an opinion, that is a fact. Which means precursor crafting as it is now is poorly designed.

DavyMcB.1603:

Plus, the mastery was designed for the whole system not a single buyer’s perspective. In the eye of the system, the RNG elements of the generation of precursors were removed at the cost of something, in this case gold if you want to cheese through it by purchasing mats or time if you want to farm them yourselves. The system compensates for the loss of RNG with increased needs for golds/time. It only makes sense.

No, it doesn’t make sense. It would make sense if crafting the precursor took the amount of time or gold equivalent to getting one from the TP. It doesn’t make sense at all to make precursor crafting more time-consuming AND more expensive than getting one from the TP.

DavyMcB.1603:

You only look at the golds you have to pay. That’s just one element of the whole equation.

And that one element of the equation is already more than the cost of getting a pre from the TP. The fact that you also have to do a lot of collections and chores on top of it only makes it worse.

Question to all of you who defend the current prices of pre crafting:

If crafting a legendary yourself was more expensive than buying one from the TP, would you craft it yourself or just simply buy it from the TP?

Right now, crafting a legendary yourself is roughly ~1000g cheaper than buying one directly from the TP.

For example, crafting the Flameseeker Prophecies will cost you at most 1566g. Buying one from the TP would cost you 2990g. So crafting The Flameseeker Prophecies is 1424g cheaper than buying one directly from the TP. As it should be.

If you want a legendary, you can either go for the cheap but time-consuming method (crafting it yourself) or for the expensive method: buying it from the TP.

Why should it be any different for precursors?

DavyMcB.1603:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

DavyMcB.1603:

A much expected misconception. Prec crafting is there so people can have guaranteed access to legend wpns. It opens up an option for people to farm and finds mats by themselves without having to go to the eternal bore fest of silver waste. The system was NOT there to make precursors cheaper.

Can people please STOP with this straw man argument? Nobody here is saying that precursors should be cheaper. We’re saying precursor CRAFTING should be cheaper than it is now, because as it stands now, you’re gonna have to pay twice as much to craft a pre as opposed to just buying one from the TP.

For pre crafting to be a viable alternative, the amount of investment it takes should be roughly equal to the amount of investment that it takes to farm gold to buy one from the TP. Right now, that is not the case. Which is a problem.

You’re reiterating exactly what I was addressing in my reply. Do walk through your line of reasoning again.

“We’re not asking for precursors to be cheaper but we’re asking for precursor crafting to be cheaper”

You really can’t see what’s wrong with that sentence?

I knew you were gonna straw-man me, which is why I edited my post to make it absolutely clear what I meant, but it seems you already replied to it before the edit went through.

So I’ll say it again:

We’re not asking for precursors to be cheaper, we’re asking for precursor crafting to be cheaper than it is now.

I’d be perfectly fine if precursor crafting had roughly the same cost to it as buying one from the TP. But as it stands now, pre crafting is actually more expensive than buying one from the TP (almost twice as expensive in some cases!), which in my opinion is absolutely stupid and does not make me want to touch pre crafting at all.

I bought The Chosen yesterday for 470g. Saved myself ~500g that way, because crafting it would have costed me ~1000g.

You don’t see anything wrong with that? You don’t see how that’s incredibly dumb?

DavyMcB.1603:

A much expected misconception. Prec crafting is there so people can have guaranteed access to legend wpns. It opens up an option for people to farm and finds mats by themselves without having to go to the eternal bore fest of silver waste. The system was NOT there to make precursors cheaper.

Can people please STOP with this straw man argument? Nobody here is saying that precursors should be cheaper. We’re saying precursor CRAFTING should be cheaper than it is now, because as it stands now, you’re gonna have to pay twice as much to craft a pre as opposed to just buying one from the TP.

For pre crafting to be a viable alternative, the amount of investment it takes should be roughly equal to the amount of investment that it takes to farm gold to buy one from the TP. Right now, that is not the case. Which is a problem.

I can’t believe that I’m actually on the same side as Ohoni for once. In fact for once he’s making a ton of sense!

Who would have known this day would come?

(J/k dude, I have no hard feelings despite our rather heated debate on raids back then.)

Feniks.6842:

Why would you play a video game and try and get any gold if you can just work for a few hours and buy gems?

Who says I don’t? With the extremely strong gems-to-gold conversion lately it’s actually quite appealing to just work 2 hours extra and buy myself 4000 gems to convert that to ~1000g.

That said, I don’t see how this is at all relevant to the discussion at hand. So let me return to you a question of my own, one I already asked but one you haven’t answered yet:

Why would you spend more time and gold on a precursor (through pre crafting) if you can also spend less time and gold on a precursor (through MF or TP)?

Feniks.6842:

Is the answer not because you want to have fun? Yes, straight up gold farming would be faster than crafting a precursor, but not everyone likes to do the same thing every day over and over again.

Pre crafting hasn’t changed a thing in that regard. You’re still gonna have to farm for gold and do other chores on top of that to craft your pre.

That said, I do think pre crafting is a step in the right direction. It’s better than farming The Silverwastes all day long, that’s for sure. But as it is now, I have to ask: why would I waste my gold on crafting a pre if I can also sell my mats and by a cheaper pre from the TP?

I simply can’t justify wasting my gold on crafting a pre when buying one is cheaper. Having fun doing the “quest” and collections is not enough of a justification for me. I can do plenty of fun new quests and collections in HoT without wasting my hard-earned gold.

Feniks.6842:

And thát’s who the precursor-crafting is for: the people who want to slowly work towards their precursor, without doing the same content over and over, and without being rng-dependant. It is for the people who enjoy questing, and for those that have no idea what to do in the game anymore as the thought of gold farming is not appealing to them, and for those who prefer the idea of getting it themselves rather than paying someone else for it, and for those who dislike the mystic toilet.

Questing is fun. Completing collections is fun (to some). But gathering 90 deldrimore steel ingots? Is that fun? Does anyone really think having to craft 90 frikkin deldrimore steel ingots or farming gold to buy them is fun?

With how pre-crafting is now, you’re not gonna get away from farming. You’ll only be questing and doing collections half the time, and you’re still gonna have to farm insane amounts of gold/mats the other half of the time. In fact, by the looks of it, you’re gonna have to farm MORE to finish your crafted pre.

Feniks.6842:

It is NOT meant to make precursors any cheaper: this was even stated by Anet when they first revealed precursor crafting.

But it wasn’t meant to be more expensive than buying a precursor either. Anet said that too. They literally said that crafting a pre is gonna cost SOME gold but you’re not gonna have to farm insane amounts of gold just to get your pre. I guess they lied.

Feniks.6842:

Clearly you want a precursor, and you want it as cheap and fast as possible: that’s cool, no biggie, it seems precursor crafting is not for you, and the mystic forge and the tp are more your thing. But there are people who DO enjoy the questing and collecting: I hope you can understand that sentiment.

No, you’re completely wrong.

I’ve already crafted 6 legendaries and I’m working on my 7th (already got the pre for it, bought it from the TP ofcourse). Obtaining precursors has never been an issue for me.

That said, I actually looked forward to precursor crafting, because surprise surprise, I love questing and collecting too!

But I can’t really justify spending twice as much gold on crafting a pre. I just can’t rationalize doing it. In my opinion spending twice as much on a precursor than necessary is just absolutely stupid. I’m not gonna pay 500g just to enjoy the precursor hunt. I have enough other stuff in HoT to entertain myself with.

Feniks.6842:

(tl;dr: just cut down to the chase and say you feel precursors in general are overpriced, which is a different discussion)

But I DON’T think precursors in general are overpriced. I think precursor CRAFTING is overpriced.

Norrec.2713:

The funny thing is… when HoT first released, Precursors were cheaper to craft than they were to buy. So the entire original argument is invalidated.

The only reason that its so high right now is that EVERYONE is trying to get their precursor as soon as possible, so its pushed the price of the mats up so much. Which, in turn, will push up the price of precursors on the TP. If you really wanted to craft it for less, you should have been one of the first ones to craft it. Now that you’re not, either wait for a few months till everyone finishes crafting theirs and the craze dies down and buy the materials for cheaper, or join the crowd and pay more.

There is no way for ANet to control the market (they can influence it, yes, but they can’t directly control it), so obviously they can’t adjust the recipe every time the cost of crafting a precursor goes higher than the cost to buy it outright.

Precursors were never cheaper to craft. One of my guildies ragequit crafting his pre when he saw he had to craft 90 deldrimore steel ingots (on top of a whole bunch of other mats) for the final stage of his pre crafting.

90 frikkin deldrimore steel ingots! Even then it would have costed him 900g and 3 months to craft them himself or 1350g if he would buy them from the TP.

That alone is already more than the price of a complete precursor on the TP!

Darknicrofia.2604:

you currently don’t get map completion rewards on characters that have 100% tyria completion.

known bug, needed to be fixed like a week ago.

Well that’s just great. Good I know this in advance. I’ll stay away from completing any HoT maps on my guardian (my main) until this is fixed. Thanks for warning me.

Nike.2631:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Let me enlighten you:

Let me enlighten you. I know perfectly well how precursor generation works. Been here for years. If there were a VENDOR offering precursors for 500 gold I’d buy in a heartbeat because that takes 100% of that mud coin out of the system.

Given the option to work a little harder (and I have level 500 crafters in all professions so I’m quite capable of fabricating the ascended mats from their basest, cheapest components) to NOT push 90% of that money into the hands of another player, I’m willing to pay a modest premium.

Frankly I’d sooner be the person dumping yellows/oranges into the mystic forge over buying a precursor. Because buying other people’s risk rarely is a good deal in the long run and I expect to be here a few years more.

I don’t understand that sentiment at all, but even so, why would you waste 1000g or more on precursor crafting (not to mention the time it takes to finish the masteries and collections) when it’s a lot easier and cheaper to generate a pre yourself through the MF (by using lvl 70 exotics, dungeon exotics or crafting your own rares)?

Nike.2631:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

And once again you’re completely missing the point.

Because of the insane amount of mats needed to craft a precursor, you’re literally better off buying a pre from the TP. I don’t get how you don’t understand this/ But let me spell it out once more:

Lets say I’d need 1000g worth of mats to craft The Chosen, and instead of buying the mats from the TP I’d farm and gather all of them myself.

So here I am, farmed and gathered my butt off. Now I have mats with a total value of 1000g in my bank and I didn’t spend a single dime for it. All is good right? Nope! Not all is good! Because here is the problem:

Why would I use those mats to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

And again your focus is on the TP as if its a place everyone WANTS to be.

What’s terrifying is how much people hate “those evil flippers”, and yet are so incredibly EAGER to give them 500g to screw you over with again in the future.

Utilizing 1,000g worth of mats to reach a goal while NOT give 500g to your economic pvp opponent is entirely worth it to some people.

Not feeding your enemy is hardly ‘stupid’. It’s fiercely gratifying in fact.

LMAO really? Your counter argument is that you rather waste 500g than giving it to “those evil flippers”?

Let me enlighten you:

The people currently generating precursors through the Mystic Toilet aren’t necessarily flippers. There is a variety of people who generate precursors through the MF and none of them are “evil” or doing anything unethical.

There are people who farm dungeons, use their dungeon tokens to get exotic weapons and throw those in the MF to generate precursors and other sell-able exotics.

There are people who gather materials to craft rare weapons, they throw those in the MF and generate precursors and other sell-able exotics with it.

Then there are people who realize that you can easily generate a precursor for ~600g if you place buy orders on the mats needed to craft rares, then use those mats you bought for cheap from the TP to craft those rares, then use those rares to generate precursors. The reason why not everyone does this to make mad profit is because it’s not a 100% guaranteed way that you’ll get that precursor after spending 600g on mats, but do this long and often enough and eventually you will average out to ~600g per precursor, which means on average you’ll make 400g profit per precursor generated and sold on the TP.

^
These 3 methods, these methods are where most of the precursors on the TP come from. I don’t see how any of these practices are unethical nor do I see why anyone would rather waste their hard-earned mats and gold on the overpriced precursor crafting as opposed to just buying one from the TP or using one of the above methods to get a pre from the MF yourself.

Paffus Piffus.9430:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Paffus Piffus.9430:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Nike.2631:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

When gathering the materials needed for precursor crafting takes a lot more time than farming for gold to buy one off the TP, then there is no reason to bother with the precursor crafting. Just farm gold and buy a pre from the TP.

Oh for pitty’s sake. You CANNOT say “oh, just farm the gold” and then be kittened off about the price being asked by people who actually generated the mats!

Someone has to actually put the real goods with actual value into the system. People generating piles of trash gold need to recognize they are the ones causing the mudflation.

When the sum total of the materials’ value needed to craft a precursor is higher than the price of the precursor on the TP, then there is no reason to bother with precursor crafting. Just sell your mats and buy a pre from the TP.

…and watch the prices climb to equilibrium…

Precursor crafting as it is right now is literally a waste of time and money.

No. BUYING the mats is a waste of time. Being able to realistically produce a precursor without feeding coin to your economic pvp opponents is priceless. Literally.

And once again you’re completely missing the point.

Because of the insane amount of mats needed to craft a precursor, you’re literally better off buying a pre from the TP. I don’t get how you don’t understand this/ But let me spell it out once more:

Lets say I’d need 1000g worth of mats to craft The Chosen, and instead of buying the mats from the TP I’d farm and gather all of them myself.

So here I am, farmed and gathered my butt off. Now I have mats with a total value of 1000g in my bank and I didn’t spend a single dime for it. All is good right? Nope! Not all is good! Because here is the problem:

Why would I use those mats to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

So I’ll say it again: as it is now, precursor crafting is a complete waste of time and money.

The last 6 lines of your post are something I cannot see how anyone can logically argue with.

You mean the last 6 lines of my post don’t make sense? How so? What part doesn’t make sense to you? I explained it pretty clearly. But I’m willing to explain it once again if I have to. I’m a patient man.

Haha you misread what I posted, I was actually saying that is an extremely sensible way to put it and I cannot see how anyone can present a logical argument against that statement.

Ah I see! I misunderstood what you said then!

Glad to see someone else in here sees how incredibly wack and out of touch the precursor crafting requirements are right now.

Paffus Piffus.9430:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Nike.2631:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

When gathering the materials needed for precursor crafting takes a lot more time than farming for gold to buy one off the TP, then there is no reason to bother with the precursor crafting. Just farm gold and buy a pre from the TP.

Oh for pitty’s sake. You CANNOT say “oh, just farm the gold” and then be kittened off about the price being asked by people who actually generated the mats!

Someone has to actually put the real goods with actual value into the system. People generating piles of trash gold need to recognize they are the ones causing the mudflation.

When the sum total of the materials’ value needed to craft a precursor is higher than the price of the precursor on the TP, then there is no reason to bother with precursor crafting. Just sell your mats and buy a pre from the TP.

…and watch the prices climb to equilibrium…

Precursor crafting as it is right now is literally a waste of time and money.

No. BUYING the mats is a waste of time. Being able to realistically produce a precursor without feeding coin to your economic pvp opponents is priceless. Literally.

And once again you’re completely missing the point.

Because of the insane amount of mats needed to craft a precursor, you’re literally better off buying a pre from the TP. I don’t get how you don’t understand this/ But let me spell it out once more:

Lets say I’d need 1000g worth of mats to craft The Chosen, and instead of buying the mats from the TP I’d farm and gather all of them myself.

So here I am, farmed and gathered my butt off. Now I have mats with a total value of 1000g in my bank and I didn’t spend a single dime for it. All is good right? Nope! Not all is good! Because here is the problem:

Why would I use those mats to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

So I’ll say it again: as it is now, precursor crafting is a complete waste of time and money.

The last 6 lines of your post are something I cannot see how anyone can logically argue with.

You mean the last 6 lines of my post don’t make sense? How so? What part doesn’t make sense to you? I explained it pretty clearly. But I’m willing to explain it once again if I have to. I’m a patient man.

displacedTitan.6897:

Do people think the precursors on the trading post appear by accident?

There are three ways to get precursors in this game.

Random drops – SUPER rare and represent only a small amount of the precursors on the TP. If this was the only way to generate them they would be an order of magnitude more expensive.

Mystic Forge RNG – Gambling with 4 rares and hoping you hit one. This is consistent for the entire playerbase but as an individual you can lose thousands of gold and never get one. This is where the majority of precursors come from on the TP and what sets the market price. This RNG factor is also what ANET removed with the new method.

Precursor Collections – Completing events and gathering/buying mats. This method is 100% SURE THING to generate a precursor. That was ANets stated objective, NOT to cheapen them, NOT to be the most optimal. They wanted to remove RNG and sustain the value of the materials that go into both rares AND now into this new method.

Stop pretending like the precursors on the marketplace come from nowhere. If you think the new method is crap, feel free to RNG your way into a precursor or just buy one from the TP.

It doesn’t matter where precursors come from, they are there and they won’t be going anywhere. As long as precursors on the TP exist, crafting a precursor will always be a waste of time and money. You’d be better off using that time and/or money to farm for gold and buy that precursor from the TP. And that won’t change until Anet decides to bring the costs of crafting a precursor on par with the TP value.

But hey, if you want to waste your time and gold on the pointless endeavor of crafting a precursor then be my guest. If you like spending more time and more gold on crafting a precursor instead of buying one, I won’t be stopping you.

Me? I’ll be more careful with my mats and gold and not waste it on an expensive, time-consuming and ultimately pointless endeavor.

Nike.2631:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

When gathering the materials needed for precursor crafting takes a lot more time than farming for gold to buy one off the TP, then there is no reason to bother with the precursor crafting. Just farm gold and buy a pre from the TP.

Oh for pitty’s sake. You CANNOT say “oh, just farm the gold” and then be kittened off about the price being asked by people who actually generated the mats!

Someone has to actually put the real goods with actual value into the system. People generating piles of trash gold need to recognize they are the ones causing the mudflation.

When the sum total of the materials’ value needed to craft a precursor is higher than the price of the precursor on the TP, then there is no reason to bother with precursor crafting. Just sell your mats and buy a pre from the TP.

…and watch the prices climb to equilibrium…

Precursor crafting as it is right now is literally a waste of time and money.

No. BUYING the mats is a waste of time. Being able to realistically produce a precursor without feeding coin to your economic pvp opponents is priceless. Literally.

And once again you’re completely missing the point.

Because of the insane amount of mats needed to craft a precursor, you’re literally better off buying a pre from the TP. I don’t get how you don’t understand this/ But let me spell it out once more:

Lets say I’d need 1000g worth of mats to craft The Chosen, and instead of buying the mats from the TP I’d farm and gather all of them myself.

So here I am, farmed and gathered my butt off. Now I have mats with a total value of 1000g in my bank and I didn’t spend a single dime for it. All is good right? Nope! Not all is good! Because here is the problem:

Why would I use those mats to craft The Chosen, if I could also sell them, turn them into 1000g liquid gold, the buy The Chosen from the TP for 500g and actually have an additional 500g to spare? I’d be frikkin stupid to waste my 1000g worth of mats on crafting The Chosen if I could just sell my mats and get The Chosen cheaper!

So I’ll say it again: as it is now, precursor crafting is a complete waste of time and money.

displacedTitan.6897:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

People who say “you can just gather the mats instead of buying them from the TP” are completely missing the point. Materials have value too. They either take time to gather or cost gold to buy.

When gathering the materials needed for precursor crafting takes a lot more time than farming for gold to buy one off the TP, then there is no reason to bother with the precursor crafting. Just farm gold and buy a pre from the TP.

When the sum total of the materials’ value needed to craft a precursor is higher than the price of the precursor on the TP, then there is no reason to bother with precursor crafting. Just sell your mats and buy a pre from the TP.

What is your point?

Crafting the precursors is supposed to be an alternative method, not a replacement method. Is that so hard to understand? ANet considers the price of precursors to be healthy right now, clearly, so they made sure to not kill the market by making the crafted ones cheaper.

If you think its a waste to use the crafting method then save the gold and buy it from TP.

Crafting a precursor is more time-consuming AND more expensive than buying a pre from the TP, which makes it an NONVIABLE alternate method. Is that so hard to understand?

Unless you like to work more and pay more for the same pre, there is absolutely zero reason to bother with pre crafting. You’d be better off farming gold and/or selling your materials and using that gold to buy a pre from the TP, as I already explained and spelled out in my previous post.

For precursor crafting to be a VIABLE alternative method, 1 of these 2 requirements have to be met:

1) Precursor crafting should be a longer but cheaper process than farming gold to buy one from the TP.

or:

2) Precursor crafting should be a faster but more expensive process than farming gold to buy one from the TP.

Right now, precursor crafting is a longer and more expensive process than simply farming gold to buy one from the TP, which makes it an nonviable alternative method and simply a waste of time and money.

Hey I know I’m kinda late to the party, busy week and all. But I wanted to say THANK YOU to Anet for listening to their fanbase and lowering the HP needed for the elite specs to 250.

250 seems like a good and fair balance and it gives people options to choose how they want to unlock their elite spec, either by 100% completing vanilla Tyria or by playing HoT, instead of having to do both (though if I’m not mistaken central Tyria only gives you ~214 HP so you still need to do some HoT for your elite spec, but that’s fine!).

It’s also a good change for the altoholics among us (myself included, I have a character for each class!). Getting 250 HP on all my characters will still take me a lot of time but that’s fine, at least it won’t be such an insane grind anymore as it was going to be back when elite specs costed 400 HP.

So once again, THANK YOU ANET! Thanks for listening to your fans!

People who say “you can just gather the mats instead of buying them from the TP” are completely missing the point. Materials have value too. They either take time to gather or cost gold to buy.

When gathering the materials needed for precursor crafting takes a lot more time than farming for gold to buy one off the TP, then there is no reason to bother with the precursor crafting. Just farm gold and buy a pre from the TP.

When the sum total of the materials’ value needed to craft a precursor is higher than the price of the precursor on the TP, then there is no reason to bother with precursor crafting. Just sell your mats and buy a pre from the TP.

Precursor crafting as it is right now is literally a waste of time and money.

captaincrash.6528:

Yeah this blows, elite specs had a level of prestige to it, something to work towards, have mastered your character to get.

Now you can complete the old content and basically have it finished. Zzz.

Prestige? Yeah right. Grinding and waiting for other players to group up with to steamroll the hero challenge champions is not prestige.

With the elite specs costing 250 HP, you’re still gonna need to do at least 4 hero challenges in HoT to get the elite spec done.

But for many people it’s gonna take a lot more than that. Not everyone has 100% completion on every single character. I dare say most people don’t have 100% map completion on every single character.

Having to do 100% map completion in central Tyria (plus 4 hero challenges in HoT) or having to do 50% map completion in HoT is a perfectly reasonable requirement for the elite specializations.

Being forced to go 100% map completion + 50% HoT completion, or 100% HoT completion on every single character to be able to use the elite specs was just too much.

Hawken if you think the people complaining about the insane requirement to fully unlock the elite spec are in the minority than you really haven’t been paying attention.

People were indifferent about the insane 400 HP requirements at best, and infuriated about it at worst. I’ve actually not seen a single person who actually truly enjoyed grinding 400 HPs for each and every single character they play. You are in fact the first and only person I’ve seen who states that he likes the grind.

Besides, the biggest problem wasn’t even the fact that we had to grind 400 HP. The biggest problem was the fact that it was impossible to explore HoT with the new elite spec (unless you already had 100% map completion in central Tyria, in that case you can explore 50% of HoT with your new elite spec). Most people who complained about the elite spec implementation complained about that, the fact that they wouldn’t be able to enjoy the new elite spec while exploring HoT.

Alright I’ll quickly debunk your points OP:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

Sure, we don’t NEED the elite specs to play through HoT, but it would definitely be a lot of fun to be able to play through HoT with the elite specs. A lot of people looked forward to exploring the jungle on their new elite specs and are incredibly dissapointed that they’re not able to do that. By the time you can finally fully enjoy your elite spec, you’ll already be done exploring 100% of all the new HoT maps, or 50% if you have 100% map completion in central Tyria (which most of us have on 1 or 2 characters, but certainly not all).

HoT is already fun the way it is (to me at least), but it would be EVEN MORE fun if we could explore HoT while playing our new elite specs.

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

It’s only “elite” in name. The elite specs aren’t actually better than any of the core specs.

Also, no one said they want the elite specs to be easy to acquire (at least not that I’m aware of). We just think that it shouldn’t be the case that we have to complete HoT 100% on each and every character just to unlock our elite specs (or 100% central Tyria + 50% HoT to unlock our elite spec). Almost nobody thinks that is fun.

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

Which is fine, but why do we have to do it 9 times if we want to be able to enjoy all the elite specs? How is that fun?

Up until now, GW2 has been an incredibly alt-friendly game. This changed when the NPE was released which forced us to do map completion on each and every single alt in order to unlock all their traits. This was received very poorly and the backlash was huge. Anet realized their mistake and fixed it a few months ago.

Now HoT is released and they once again make the exact same mistake with unlocking the elite specializations, and again they get the exact same backlash they got after the NPE release. You’d think Anet would have learned from their mistakes. Clearly they haven’t.

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

On most classes you do.

Sure, some elite specs can perfectly be used with only a part of the traits and utilities unlocked (dragonhunter and reaper seem to be perfectly playable and viable with only half of it unlocked), but most elite specs are incredibly kitten and completely useless until you unlock their grandmaster traits (daredevil comes to mind).

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

I’m indifferent about this. I don’t mind that unlocking the elite specs is character-bound, but I also wouldn’t mind if it became account-bound.

What I do mind is the amount of work it takes to fully unlock an elite spec and the fact that I won’t be able to fully enjoy the elite specs until I’ve already finished exploring 100% of all the new HoT maps.

I think characters that have 100% map completion in central Tyria should already have enough hero points to fully unlock their elite spec, while characters without 100% map completion in central Tyria should be able have their elite spec fully unlocked after completing 50% of the new HoT content.

(TL;DR version at the bottom.)

As a game developer in training and avid GW2 fan, I’d like to give my 2 cents on this:

But first, I want to congratulate Colin and the GW2 dev team on this amazing expansion release. In my experience, this has been one of the smoothest xpac releases I’ve ever seen and so far I’m having tons of fun in HoT. I think HoT is an amazing expansion and this deserves to be said.

However, that does not mean HoT is without flaws and the most obvious and jarring flaw is the way elite specializations and hero points are implemented.

What I think is wrong with the current implementation of the elite specs and hero points (TL;DR version at the bottom):

Personally, when I’m playing the game and reading this thread, I’m having incredible deja vu. The complaints I have seen about the implementation of elite specs and hero points are incredibly familiar. Does anyone remember the initial implementation of the NPE (New Player Experience)? If not, I suggest you type in “NPE” in the search bar on this forum and read the threads that come up. Notice the similarities? I do.

The biggest problem with the NPE was that unlocking all your traits and completing your character became an incredible grind. People were essentially forced to do map completion on each and every character in order to unlock all their traits. Doing map completion and unlocking your traits once is fun, doing it twice is fine, doing it 3 times becomes an annoyance, doing it 8 times (once for each class) becomes an incredibly boring and obnoxious grind.

Anet realized their mistake with the NPE and eventually changed it. Now you can unlock all your core specializations by simply getting your character to level 80. A lot of people were very happy with that change.

In comes HoT and what do we see? The exact same issues that the NPE had are once again back in HoT. If we want to fully unlock our elite specs, we’re once again forced to go through a grind very similar to the NPE trait-unlock grind that people hated to much.

I’m quite baffled that Anet seemingly hasn’t learned a thing after the NPE debacle.

I’ll say again what I said about the NPE: I’m not particularly bothered that we have to play through 50% of HoT to fully unlock our elite specializations (or 100% if you don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria). The content is fun and I’m having a blast doing it. But being forced to go through 100% of HoT (or 100% of central Tyria + 50% of HoT) on each and every single character to unlock their elite specializations is a problem. That quickly becomes a bothersome grind that most people simply don’t enjoy doing.

On top of that, there is the feeling of disappointment that I won’t be able to explore the HoT maps while playing my elite specializations, at least not on my characters that don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria. By the time I have my elite specializations unlocked on those characters, I’ll already be done with exploring all the new HoT maps.

TL;DR version:

The issues we’re facing now with the elite specializations and how they are unlocked is almost identical to the issues we faced with unlocking our traits after the release of the NPE.

The amount of work that goes into fully unlocking an elite specialization quickly becomes a bothersome grind when you have multiple characters that you want to unlock your elite spec on.

On top of that there is the feeling of disappointment that we won’t be able to explore the new HoT maps while playing our elite specializations. By the time we have our elite specs fully unlocked, we’re already pretty much done with exploring the new HoT maps. This seems to have disappointed a lot of players, myself included.

Tuthan.3250:

If you haven’t noticed, they already had a theme color for HoT, it’s green.

if you haven’t noticed, the OP is playing a pun on the ‘hot pink’ dye, which is an actual dye in the game.

Seriously, am I the only one so far in this thread who got the OP’s joke?

Ok I Did It.2854:

If any of you plan on doing a raid, you can bet you WILL be running the Elite, there is no way Anet is going to spend all this time promoting these new Elite Specs for them to sit idle and unused, they will make content that forces you to use the Elite or you wont get past it,

It may not be in the first few raids, but by this time next year it will be near mandatory to run the Elite.

The only one that I will even look at will be the Mesmer, and that’s only for sPvP, everything else just looks boring to me, I Main was a necro and the Elite spec was horrible I hated it.

I don’t see how. Dragonhunter for example brings absolutely nothing new to the team that isn’t already covered by the core guardian or other core specs.

Same for daredevil. I can see the daredevil being good for condition thief builds, but again; it doesn’t bring anything new to the team that isn’t already covered by the other classes.

Same for pretty much every single elite spec except for druid. I can see druids becoming mandatory for content that needs a dedicated healer. But even then I think a skillful guardian could pull off a shared roll of both tank and healer at the same time without the need for a druid as dedicated healer.

Classes I’m definitely gonna use the elite trait line on most of the time:

- Revenant
- Mesmer
- Necromancer

Classes that I’ll sometimes use the elite spec on when the situation needs it:

- Ranger (if I wanna be the healer in a raid)
- Elementalist (again, if I wanna be the healer in a raid)
- Warrior (if I feel like playing a condi warrior)
- Thief (I’m not sure about daredevil but it might have some potential)
- Engineer (same as thief)

Classes that I’m never gonna use elite specs on because their elite specs are garbage:

- Guardian

I can kinda see where the OP is coming from. I think he worded it poorly but I do get his point.

I do want to see the core classes getting some fancy new stuff that doesn’t need you to go into an elite spec trait line. For example stuff like the new elite shout and new elite signet that the guardians got (granted, we got them instead of the elite tomes that we used to have but still).

Absolutely no problem Saiyan as I happen to play on the NA servers as well.

Oh yeah very important question: Do you play on the EU or the NA servers?

This is awesome! Thanks man!

I consider myself an intermediate player who got the basics down and knows basic rotations, but I know for a fact that there is still a lot of room for improvement in my play.

I main bunker guard and shoutbow warrior, but I play almost any class and eventually I’d like to get decent at all of them.

I’d love to play with you and discuss strategies with you. I have some PvPing guildies who are likely also interested. I’ll definitely send you a PM or ingame message one of these days. You’re always welcome to join our guild’s Teamspeak. I’ll send you our TS3 info as well.

When I feel comfortable enough with my level of skill then I’ll definitely return the favor by also teaching new players.

Cheers mate!

kdaddy.5431:

Grover.8753:

I’ve recently gotten into PvP quite a bit and have been enjoying it a lot. I play Unranked because I figure since I am not a hardcore pvp’er it’s more appropriate. Having teams built through random selection going against each other in some fun “head-to-head” versus because I know I’ll encounter others at my current skill level. At least that’s what I thought it was.

Don’t bust my kiTTeNs just yet though. Playing with one or two friends I can understand and think that is fine. But going up against a full guild pre-made team is not fun at all. It’s actually makes the PvP in this game feel like complete “stuff that comes out your bottom.” Especially when you team is full randoms. This makes it so there is ZERO room for casual PvP’ers.

What I don’t under stand is why it’s set up to allow full guild pre-made teams into unranked PvP. There’s no enjoyable experience in that selection any it makes the battle completely one sided. This needs to be kept in Custom Arena and Ranked PvP if they hope to maintain an enjoyable gaming experience. Take a cue from GW1 where syncing in PvP could actually get you banned. So say your “salty” and "QQ"’s but its the truth and I’m sure plenty of people know what I’m talking about but won’t say anything.

I recently saw my old team, they were full 5 and on TS and i was on a 2-1-1-1-1 i and i solo qued. We won as pugs so i dont know how you MMR this. .

OFCOURSE YOU WON! You had 6 people on your team! That is 1 man extra!

J/k, I’m just joking about the fact you typed one ‘1’ too many.

Or just bring back Solo Queue and Team Queue (both versions ranked and unranked). Problem solved.

That said, I do think Team Queue should only be for 5 men pre-mades. I don’t want to be forced into Team Queue without a complete team.

glaphen.5230:

mistsim.2748:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

Yeah and high level premade vs premade makes up like 1% of all PvP games and the rest are screwed over by not having their personal support shout bunker butt slave.

I play Shoutbow Warrior and Bunker Guardian all the time, even when I queue solo, unless someone else in my team already runs shoutbow/bunker.

But if I ever get thrown in the same team as you, I’ll deliberately switch to a non-supportive class so you can rage some more about how OP burning and burn guards are.

glaphen.5230:

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago.

Again, PvP is a team effort. You’re likely not the only person on the point (if you are, you’re doing it wrong).

Shadow Refuge is super useful. The single most useful skill in the thief’s kitten nal. Any thief without it is deliberately gimping himself and the team.

Shadow Refuge can be used to safely res allies, it can be used to secure stomps from either yourself or your allies and it can be used as a last-resort escape mechanism when you and your team are getting overpowered.

Escape and live to try another day is better than dying.

glaphen.5230:

Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you.

Running Skelk instead of Withdraw won’t get you killed, not with this build, unless you’re really really bad.

It will definitely keep you and your team alive. Not only is it a better heal than Withdraw (for this build), it also does damage to the opponents, something Withdraw doesn’t do.

If you want to play a venom share thief, Skelk is the way to go.

glaphen.5230:

Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them,

Maybe YOU won’t stand a chance against them, but any competent player will. The weakness of a burn guard is heavy condi pressure. This build provides that. Burn guards should pose no treat to you on this build if you’re any good.

glaphen.5230:

You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons.

No, you severely overestimate them. Thieves Guild is garbage. Basilisk Venom is so much more useful. It screws with your enemies’ rotations, locks enemies down, it can prevent stomps, it can prevent runaways, it steals health and heals you (and allies) and it gives you might.

What does Thieves Guild give you in comparison? Two crappy A.I. companions with mediocre health and terrible DPS on a crappy 180 sec cooldown.

We all know the A.I. in this game is garbage. Good players who know how to make proper use of Basilisk Venom will always take Basilisk Venom over Thieves Guild.

glaphen.5230:

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth.

Says who?

glaphen.5230:

Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better.

Skelk venom gives you more healing with 0 healing power than Withdraw does with a Clerics amulet.

Also you’re being selfish and not realizing PvP is a team effort. Skelk Venom with Venomous Aura is incredibly good and supportive to the team, which is part of the job of the bunker: supporting the team.

Besides, in this condi-heavy meta, the more healing, the better (unless you have to sacrifice something really good for it, which Withdrawal isn’t).

glaphen.5230:

No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share.

With the improved build I linked you, you’’ll totally stand a chance against burn guards. You’ll kill them with ease.

glaphen.5230:

Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment.

It helps keeping the conditions off you and increasing your own condi pressure. Feel free to swap out the Intelligence sigil for something else if you feel you don’t need it.

glaphen.5230:

Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

Feel free to pick Spider Venom over Ice Drake Venom if you think it’s better. To me both are equally good. I like Ice Drake because it screws with the mobility and rotations of your opponents, which to me is more useful than another poison apply.

Skale Venom is definitely a must though. The Krait runes only give you 1 stack of torment when you use your Basilisk Venom and the sigil gives only 1 stack too. That alone simply isn’t enough.

Skale Venom doesn’t just give torment, it also gives vulnerability. It’s pretty much the best venom the thief has if you ask me.

But honestly, this build that I just linked will work fine with Spider + Ice too if that’s what you wanna roll with.

Seriously, try this build I linked out, pick the venoms you prefer, make sure you DEFINITELY bring Skelk and Basilisk venom, and you’ll see how much better you’ll do against the current condi-meta.

I mean, if you can have a 61% win ratio with a useless Clerics thief build, imagine how much you’ll win with an actual proper and useful build!

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

That’s on my main account with 1000+ matches played on it.

I’ll take a screenshot of my alt account the next time I log in so you can see it.

Also, I improved your build for you and made it up to date so it will be useful again in the current meta. With this you’ll be absolutely demolishing burn guards: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV6YnMJCVNhNNBePB8PhDYiynGnxIy7hg4H0JQAsbA-TZBHABAcRASqMQZPAAR2fQ4jAAA

You’re welcome.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

You sure it’s not you with the horrible understanding of PvP. I win most of my matches still so I’m pretty sure I know how to PvP.

Yes, I’m sure.

And come back to me when you played more than 89 matches in the current PvP meta. Let’s see what win ratio will be then.

I mean I also win 70% of all my matches on my alt account with less than 100 matches played on it. That doesn’t mean jack. It just means my MMR on that account is still low and this I’m still grouped up with the newbies and bad players. Same thing is true for you.

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

All they need to do is change the “win as x class” daily to “win a match.”

Yeah and make it specifically: “win a match in unranked or ranked arena”.

No.

We already get a better solution when HoT releases.

Why 8v8? Why not 5v5?

trytonianYeti.4389:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Proof?

-15 char filler-

WOW YOU ARE A FRAUD!!!

That screenie has been heavily tampered with using editing software. You can’t fool me.

He is lying. Those aren’t his stats. Stop wasting your time with this guy. He appears to be lonely and just want to waste your time giving him attention.

Ok people, compare his statistics to your in-game version and you will notice that his chart is smaller. Also, the background of the numbers are fuzzy. Not only that, isn’kitten weird coincidence that two of his record stats are exactly the same???

I’m not sure about that. He could be a fraud. I certainly want to think he’s a fraud because I can’t imagine someone with such a terrible build and such terribly bad understanding of PvP winning 40 out of 59 matches, but it seems to be the case.

The reason his Ranked stats and Solo Queue stats are the same is because after they changed Solo Queue + Team Queue to Unranked + Ranked, all the Solo and Team Queue stats got carried over to the new Ranked stats.

Considering this guy only ever played Solo Queue and hasn’t played Ranked Queue since the change, it makes sense that his Solo Queue and Ranked Queue stats are the same.