Guild Wars 2

@Fungalfoot:
These are just balances to make the Necromancer less reliant on passive procs and playstyle and promote more counterplay.
It’s not that bad ATM.

They claimed they should be changing Sigils fuctions, in a week they’re going to release a patch note.
Do anybody knows anything else?

PS: So with Dhuumfire not working with crits, all the build is going to shift, we should switch to Dire stats(hoping they will put it in PVP) and throw away superior sigil of Earth.

The “smart” thing is that We cannot use Dhuumfire in the start of the fight, yet conditionmancer is kitten developing LF, this locks out both Dhuumfire and Terror.

The problem is… Nerfing Minions’ HP and giving nothing back for balance?
Yet we have no backfire for losing minions and they go down pretty easily on Aoes..
Now people gonna take them down more easily.
Just reduce their cooldowns, for kitten sake.

Vampiric Master was good in bunker builds, just kittens were using Blood traits in aggressive builds…

AlexEBT.7240:

…

1) Backstab doesn’t hit like a truck just in a fantomatic signet build.

2) I thank you, but I don’t play just Necro, and I still am not here asking a strategy to counter this problem.

Would you please argue without these ignorance declarations please?

The problem is this kind of mechanic has no counterplay, AND toughness ain’t gonna help with a Thieves; they will hit hard with whatever spell even if you have 2000 Toughness, when they can go around with 900 Toughness managing their surv with multiple dodges, evades and stealths.

The fact the survivability of the Thief is reduced while playing with this build doesn’t really matters. In a teamfight it’s enough if they go for an istantshot attack on the focused target, after that he wasted all his Defensive cooldowns, to achieve a sure kill, then the Thief can stealth and reset the fight, giving an huge advantage to his team.
It’s a too much imbalanced situation.
And be honest. Just bad Thieves gonna get shotted given their frailty, it’s a matter of using smartly your tools.
Just stop climbing mirrors and declare what’s real.

Tastes are tastes, but really… this thread …

@Rym:
The Siphoning Fear can be a nice idea, but I see it better on Blood Tree, the idea about feeding on the opponent’s terror feels cool. Maybe making it a special heal passing through DS.

Your suggestion about Demonic Flesh sounds nice, like some kind of empowered Spiteful Spirit (good times from GW1), but I see it as too much op. And for sure it’s a defensive trait, I don’t see it fitting Spite tree, maybe it can stay in Soul Reaping tree.

I don’t agree with Animator’s Vigor. As said multiple times by more people, minors shouldn’t force people on taking minions, also it would be too much situational for it to proc on Jagged Horrors’ death, it would work mainly on a “sacrifical” build and as Dalanor said I don’t think MMs would need more vigor.

1) It’s just a nice trait as it is now;
2) Developers stated they want to keep under control our LF generation, so the way you suggested to modify it would be too much OP; PS: there’s “Gluttony” which increases the LF generation.
3) Soul Marks totally sucks;
4) We are costantly discussing about traits on this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Traitworks/page/3#post3497059
There you can check other’s players opinions.

Why don’t we bring this on Profession Balance subforum?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance

@Dalanor: First of all I invite you on dropping this aggressive attitude.
Second, I considered this…

In PVP nobody takes it.

..on the basis that most of the “competitive”(builds that work in Tpvp not Spvp) powerbuilds in PVP don’t run more than 10-15 trait points in Curse if not going full berserk… Usually who runs a 30/20/XXX build in PVP generally does it for Lich Form, losing a lot of survival chances and getting melted in half a second. Correct me if I’m not right.
Third, all of those things you mentioned are meant to work the same, and that explanation was seen by the PVE point of view, actually you don’t have so many problems developing LF in PVE, and the costant AOE doesn’t hit like a Well of Suffering (not mentioning the lenght of the Daze for obvious means). As we stated multiple times, it’s not a lifechanger trait, but because it has no competition it’s fine.

Dalanor.5387:

Luke.4562:

PS: Anierna.6918 in a post on this page suggested to bring in Death Shiver from Death Magic tree to make it have a better interaction with power builds which would run with the Curse tree. What about to replace it with Banshee’s Wail?

Just nope, all of my nope. Banshee’s wail is in a really good place.

Id’ see Banshee’s Wail as Spiteful Talisman on an Adept slot, btw.
An offhand weapon shouldn’t be that high on a trait line imho.
20 trait points to get in PVE a better uptime on Locust Swarm?
In PVP nobody takes it.

spoj.9672:

Chilling darkness is a defensive trait

Both defense and offense, remember it locks out the cooldowns.

Well then what about demolishing Chilling Darkness, putting Banshee’s Wail on Adept Tier(more accessible for both PVP and PVE) and moving Death Shiver on Master tier?
I think every PVE power build would rather then a LF boost on command through Locust Swarm than some 1% LF with a 33% chances on a crit.

Another 1 week on Curse Tree? Isn’t that too much?

Anyway It’s not easy to decide where it’s better Spectral Attunement have moved to.
I’d prefer not to move it.
In its actual place it’s easy to take and has no big competition with other Master Traits for Condition builds (probably people will take Master of Corruption instead of it) . We assume that Spectral skills are taken mainly in PVP.
By the last analysis (regarding Soul Reaping tree) I suggested to move Mark of Revival to replace Fear of Death, or to move and merge the unwanted Soul Marks: in this way we have two potential free Master trait slots which Spectral Attunement could fit in. But what about the rivalry with other traits? It would be a PVP-only trait, for Power builds it can compete with Unyelding Blast, Pact of Midnight and Near to Death, for Condition build it would be outshaded by the obvious Master of Terror.

Imho we can’t make a real decision until we have a clear vision of all the possibilities.
An idea would be making a great analysis of all 5 trees, declaring clearly which Trait needs to be replaced or moved, so we can make decisions by considering all the environment.

Reaper Precision would become more useful if the procrate would be raised to 100% each crit.

Chilling Darkness would need a full rework, maybe becoming a GrandMaster trait similiar to Dhuumfire (It’s just a raw idea).

Enfleeble would just need a buff to Weakness duration, I can’t agree merging it with Withering Precision: they nerfed it because the duration of weakness with the boost from Spite tree and the interaction with Near to Death would make it’s uptime too much high. So just bring it up from 2 seconds to 3-4.

PS: Anierna.6918 in a post on this page suggested to bring in Death Shiver from Death Magic tree to make it have a better interaction with power builds which would run with the Curse tree. What about to replace Banshee’s Wail with it?

Atm every spell wich needs an Aoe marker to cast is disabled underwater, for obvious mechanic design flaw (exception made for signet of undeath, can’t say why), so Lich would need a good redesign in skills.
Anyway what do we have now it’s pretty decent, and underwater fights aren’t that frequent, so it’s not a priority.

PS:

Bhawb.7408:

underwater rigging

The rig it’s the skeleton of the model, made for animation purposes; you’re mistaking it with “underwater animations”, usually once you have a rig for a model you can use it for whatever animation, so actually in a Video Game they don’t have to make another rig for underwater animations.

Agree, but it hasn’t to be written in stone, it just should be an overall guide. Imho the precedence must be given to the build variety.
What should be considered when pondering about traits are the chances for them belonging to a PVE or a PVP build, and eventually to one build or another (example: as for Curse Tree, it’s both used by Powermancers and Condimancers), always keeping in consideration those traits which potentially outshade others.
So the balance should be done essentially having in mind MORE defined builds.

Molch.2078:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBdiRUymRb4sBDHA this.

Not really.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA

Balefire.7592:

Well, the one week survey period is complete. The survey will continue to accept responses, but as far as discussion is concerned, I feel like this is sufficient data to more forward. I finally got Google Forms working right, so here is the link for the data overview.

Do any of these results surprise you?
I was surprised by how many people would like to see Banshee’s Wail and Spectral Attunement moved elsewhere. In particular, the “move” slice is the biggest slice for Spectral Attunement. Also, I’m surprised how many people are happy with where Target the Weak currently sits, both in strength and in location.

Well, there were trolls answering the poll and people which didn’t analize Traits properly (for example not considering the actual and the potential opportunities for multiple builds). Answering “terrible” and “subpar” on Terror…
I can’t understand the overall appreciation for Lingering Curse wich as being a Grand Master is subpar compared to other Master traits like Axe Training, or people claiming to move and merge Spectral Attunement when it’s the ONLY trait that helps the Curse line and Conditionmancers with LF..
Same for Banshee Wail, by the moment it’s the only choice for powermancer in Master tier.
MEH

Consider to interpretate the graphics putting together the positive votes (Alright, Great, OP) and compare them with negative votes (Terrible Subpar).

I just say. Warrior player.

Monoman.2068:

I hope a lot of you never get into game design… I second your opinion OP even as a necromancer myself.

I could care less if other classes have cheesy animations on powerful skills. I don’t want the class I enjoy playing dropping down to the same level.

So with your declaration you’re asking for your own “skill pride” that Necromancer and other players have drop -not at, but..- down UNDER that level?
Well yes, nerf again the staff. Because of a senseless rant.

Why not giving a different name and a gradient color to Mesmer’s clones etc.? Because that’s what you’re asking for.

“HEYA dudes! I’m dropping my Putrid Mark just right HERE! Please be careful, to get me and play some Pong with my face you’ve to get around it or dodgeroll it, or pop Berserker Stance and walk over my little orchard carelessly, We’ll play again in 30 seconds!” /drops trousers…
-Warrior, 1 second of indecision- -Necromancer 15 seconds of chainStun-

That’s fine knowing something is going on.
But I won’t dislike going on with this theorycraft discussion about traits, we can still find good ideas and know better the general hopinion about them.

Hard counter profession players ranting more about the countered profession.

Is this the DoorMat’s profession subforum? Are my bristles too much long? Shall i have to flatten myself more?

THIS is Absurd.

Nada, Vampire Necro is still a dream.

In Pve we aren’t the best class (effectively we are not in a good position), but there are some Powerbuilds viable.
Death Shroud dps based builds, mostly dagger builds. 30/25/0/0/15 or 30/10/0/0/30 are some of the most common builds, revolving around Close to Death, Deathly Perception, Unyelding Blast and Target the Weak.

In Pvp atm we’re enough competitive, even if we have hard counters and some great weaknesses.
One of the most OP builds we have it’s the Dhuumfire Terrormancer 30/20/0/0/20, revolving around Terror, Dhuumfire and condition spikes. Minion Mancer has become a pseudo-meta build even if it didn’t receive big buffs for Pvp in the last 12 months. Even here Powerbuilds revolving around Deathly Perception became more used.
The meta adapted on the diffusion of bunker builds and condition spam builds, so expect to see a lot of condition hate.

Can’t say about Wvw.

Rarnark.5623:

22k Backstabs don’t happen in pvp.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg

Ask Nemesis also.

Also when a warrior has berserker stance on it is visible under his name

Alright.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Mark_of_Blood.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Chilblains_symbol.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Putrid_Mark.jpg

Enjoy yourself discovering them, effectivley, they’re really big and visible on the ground more than a tiny little icon under your name. I’d say in this situation it’s easier keeping the eyes on your target and the surroundings than 20 minutes on his healthbar checking for his cooldowns..

And more, a 3 months Warrior player which enters the Necro subforum with arrogant attitude that wants to win easier in PVP when his class totally counters Necromancer..
Come on!

Bhawb.7408:

He’s asking for casting animations, which is important. Readability is huge for this game, and staff is a big problem in this area.

This would happen only during an engage, when the Necromancer starts yet to set marks on the ground as an opener; unskilled Necros gonna spam every mark, experienced one will wait to land those more important for the best situation. It wouldn’t totally matter during the fight, when the Warrior would stick in melee range and the Necro would drop the marks directly on his face.

So imho it’s worthless, it’s just a rant because he met a troll or a more skilled Necromancer that made him understand his mediocrity.

Rarnark.5623:

Dodging Mark of Blood only to get hit by Chillbains right after is getting really old. Dodging the right marks can mean the difference between life and death when fighting a necromancer and having absolutely no way to tell what mark the necro is using is unacceptable. This needs to be a priority in the next balance patch.

You’re right! It’s unacceptable!

I’d like to see a huge colored animation when Thieves gonna backstab 5-22k you…

Or when a Warrior decides to pop Berserker Stance and dance on your Marks.

It’s life. You have to adapt.

I don’t agree about Siphoned Power, it should get buffed (threshold raised to 50-75%) or totally deleted, not put into Curse line.

Talking about Death Shiver it’s not a bad idea… anyway, if putting it into the Curse line, consider this: it would be avialable only to ONE kind of power build, the 30/20/XXX (I’m not considering ofc powerbuilds which doesn’t put points into Spite for obvious motivations).

The problem would be to decide if it’s better getting some better trait instead of it or making it avialable by putting it into Curse*, Soul Reaping or Spite lines.

• Because in Curse Master tier, as you stated there are no other better counterparts for powerbuilds.

1) Take away Soul Marks (it’s awful, 12% LF spamming 4 marks on a 8-15-40seconds cooldown) and get Vital Persistence, by the moment you make the most damage in DS it’s essential in PVE.

2) By the moment you don’t have Minion Master (cooldown reduction) or Death Nova, it’s advisable to take away Bone Minions or Flesh Wurm and take Shadow Fiend for LF generation. Just my hopinion.

Stop crying about Elementalists, they’ve been OP and good meta for a lot of time.. They would need a buff ofc, but come on, you’re getting yourself ridicle.

It’s a Ninjanerf then..
__________________

We surely need some placeholder Trait, tell me what about this idea:
Bleeds stacks are converted to corruption/decadence condition, which can be applied to unanimated objects (Or maybe to both unanimated objects and classic targets, just increasing the damage, if considering this as a GrandMaster Trait).
It would help conditionmancers in PVE and make em more peculiar.

I’m considering this by the moment if Terror will become a GrandMaster (and eventually Lingering Curse will go into Master tier), then its purpose would be for PVP, then in subsitution of Whithering Precision this could be a good trait for PVE.

And what about some trait to make conditions and minions work together?
maybe a Master or Adept which should make minion explode on death spraying bones and applying bleedings to nearbie opponents? More like Death Nova, but more accessible. Wouldn’t it be nice?

And what about objects and unanimated things?
What if Necromancer’s bleeds would be translated to a “Decadence” or “Corruption” conditon on them to solve the problem?
To match the change or to emphasize it, ANET can implement it through Curse traits maybe.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Note: mark of revival should activate when the res starts, not when it ends.
It’s why this trait isn’t used.. at all.. ever.. by anyone..anywhere..

Are you totally sure it works as you described?
Since the last time I used it some months ago it was proccing just when starting the ress.

Please stay close to the topic’s argument and remember to answer this questionary from Baelfire.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LXSuuzq2Pf95MSClCzTCvgUoBbYm71I7xmrVo9zaFTQ/viewform

Bhawb.7408:

Actually, that’s a good point, it really isn’t amazing except when using a scepter, and even then is a bit meh.

What if they buffed it to be similar to Axe Training, but scepter-version? So it also reduces the CDs of scepter skills, in addition to the auto attack buff (which honestly is the biggest thing of using a scepter).

I like it, improved damage and cooldown reduction on scepter would really be a nice overhaul for this trait.

Bhawb.7408:

XI – Lingering Curse – with the way this trait currently works (it only affects scepter 1 base durations, nothing else), it isn’t worth a GM trait. It literally just increases the duration of a single chain of skills. Swap it with Terror.

I agree with your post, but are we sure that after bringing LC to a Master tier it would be taken anyway? It’s still not that useful, it’s a slight increase in dps, it’s a decent filler, but in PVE it would be outshadowed by Master of Corruption, eventually other traits.. in PVP it’s ofc outshaded by Spectral Attunement.
I think it would be better a damage increase buff instead of the duration.. Or anything else..

Please don’t flame on this thread.

Balefire.7592:

Survey Link.

Come on people, click the link and give your most sober opinion.

It has always been like this. Since September 2012. Welcome to Necromancer.

spoj.9672:

Well then you have obviously missed meta power build for organised groups. :P

ps. trash* not thrash.

Probably, but it doesn’t justify this trait. By the moment it’s thrash and people are used to try these filler traits since September 2012.

It’s totally outshaded by Spectral Attunement, Focused Rituals, Reaper precision, even Weakening Shroud in some power builds.

It’s not subjective.

Balefire.7592:

Survey Link.

Come on people, click the link and give your most sober opinion.

Dalanor.5387:

Masters are more focused on the stats that the line gives, thats why Banshee’s wail makes sense. A power build will go in this line, just alone for the extra precision and maybe Target the weak

I still havn’t seen any meta or decent powerbuild taking Banshee’s Wail. In PVE it’s thrash, in PVP you have still better choices.
If it would stay on adept tier, it would make sense.

In my hopinion the minions siphoning would be reliable on a tanky build, by the moment you are running berserk gear, their healings wouldn’t be that effective, they won’t save you from a nuke. Just an opinion.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA
Minors:
Barbed precision is fine; Furious Demise is awesome for both Condi and Power builds; Target the Weak is nice in PVE for Power builds, but it has less synergy with condition damage based builds.

Majors:
I) Toxic Landing: Somehow decent, easy to get. I’m neutral, it’s too much situational, but doesn’t give any problem of trait selection by the moment this tree has a lot of good traits between Adept and Master.
It’s a Runner trait, often used un WVW. Maybe merge or work it with Speed of Shadows in Soul Reaping treeline?

II) Hemophilia: It’s both averagely decent and not that good, in PVP that’s because conditions are easily and often dispelled, in PVE it’s ok, but bleeds duration are hindered by the bleeding cap.. (and if we keep in mind that conditions can’t deal with objects…). Maybe change it to make Bleeds deal more damage.

III) Chilling Darkness: Extremely situational. I don’t agree with situational inefficent traits and spells. It needs a change.

IV) Weakening Shroud: It used to be an awesome trait, it’s still fine, but the Weakness should be raised to 3 seconds duration.

V) Reaper’s Precision: Somehow decent, nice for Power/crit based builds, mostly used in PVE.

VI) Focused Rituals: Nice trait, good accessibility, but essentially it doesn’t feel that good inside Curse Tree. I’d see it better in Blood Tree substituting Dagger Traits.

VII) Master of Corruption: Averagely decent, not so much used, Imho there are better choices in PVP which competes with it. It works fine with Corrupt Boon in PVP and Epidemic in PVE.

VIII) Banshee Wail: Master trait involving the Horn which is often a weapon used by general Power builds or glass cannon Power builds? It should be replaced.

IX) Terror: One of the best traits for Condimancer, maybe it deserves its golden place in the Grandmaster Trait slots.

X) Spectral Attunement: Another good trait which is nice here because it helps the condition builds which lack LF to get some of it. No change.

XI) Lingering Curse: A filler trait, the logic here is similiar to Hemophilia; the problem here is this trait is so average that in most builds which get Curse Tree traits, the Grandmaster Trait is totally avoided.
It just makes your bleeds, poisons and cripples from the wand last more (can’t say if this applies to conditions applied while in DS).
Average.

XII) Whithering Precision: Once it was useful, but since ANET put a so long ICD this trait has become totally thrash. Same logic with Lingering Curse: people avoid spending the last 5 points in curse line if not for taking Master traits.
Thrash. It needs a rework. It could be a nice support/condition bunker trait.

Balefire.7592:

Survey Link.

Come on people, click the link and give your most sober opinion.

keloorie.6085:

What is the shade? I started the game pretty late so I dont know anything about it, seems like everyone want it back though

Shade Soul Reaping Minor Prevent knocked back, knocked down, launched, slowed or stunned while in Death Shroud.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits

A minor trait from the old BETA.

2. Spectral Attunement: Spectral skills have longer durations and grant life force on use. What is this trait even doing here??? This isn’t a curse…it’s a deathshroud buff!

ATM Spectral Attunement is involved with Spectral Skills, not Death Shroud.

Minors good in Death? Not really.

Shrouded Removal bad? Not really.

The Foot in the Grave role is really good, the problem it’s too much high on the Tree and it would need some change.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Flesh-Golem/first#post1113258

It would be extremely cool if they would subsitute those sick Jagged Horrors with something undead Karka Hatchling alike.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Karka_Hatchling

Ok, but please keep posting and keeping your threads up; keep some big thread to summarize the others, so that we can get more visibility (we aren’t spamming).

Soul Vision: Staff Major Your staff attacks will track their targets.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits
What about something like this as a placeholder for Adept/Master? It would FINALLY hit the target and give almost sure LF every cast. I would get it instead of whatever buff at it’s projectile speed.

Balefire.7592:

Luke.4562:

Shall we go on discussing other Trees?

Does everyone feel like we’ve reached a consensus on things?
Many people have mentioned that they would like to see some traits scrapped/merged, and I’m interested in seeing what you’d want to see in their place.

People doesn’t seem interested in talking about it, those who answered gave their idea about it. Maybe starting with another tree would have renewed the interest for this thread.
I can’t really say what to suggest to put instead of almost 4 traits which need to be substituted. It’s a hole too much big to fill. Without some approval from the Staff it’s an hard job. It would be nice if they would brainstorm some of their ideas with us.

-MATTER of FACTS:
We are pretty sure people want to get Strenght of Undeath boosted to a reasonable standard and Shade instead of Foot in the Grave.

-IDEA#1:
Maybe we can merge Soul Marks with Staff Mastery with no boosts and totally replace Fear of Death with Mark of Revival.. Then we should find a replacement for Fear of Death…
But then what to put instead of Soul Marks? We should maybe lurk into some discarded BETA trait or make something that would be worth taking in builds which doesn’t use Master of Terror and Near to Death to allow more build variety. (Master of Terror is often used in PVP by terror builds and usually by powermancers, in PVE it’s situational; Near to Death is occasionally used in power builds in both PVP and PVE -Furious Demise and Fury uptime, Weakening Shroud and Weakness uptime, or Shrouded Removal, atm sucks badly for Deathly Invigoration-).

They would be 2 Master Traits to be worked.

-IDEA#2:
Or maybe move Foot in the Grave to Master Trait and modify it to give stability after Death Shroud or something similiar, by the moment it would compete with Near to Death with 20 Trait Points and their combo wouldn’t be taken without spending 30 points in Soul Reaping and discarding a Grand Master Trait.

PS: in this situation nobody would aim for the FitG+NtD combo because alone the new FitG would be a weaker replacement for Shade which would be anyway valuable and avialable in whatever build. More build variety allowed!

What do you think about it?

-IDEA#3
By the moment we have some “free slots” in 2 Master Traits and 2 Adept Traits, what about putting inside some Traits to help those builds which often doesn’t put traits in Soul Reaping to create more build variety?
We can propose to put in something to help Minion Masters or Condimancers, or maybe Wells..

Something like… “When in Death Shroud” your wells generate x% LF"…
“When Minions Dies (both death by steel or sacrifice) they give x% LF”…
“Your dots gives periodical x% LF”… (consider combos with Epidemic to balance it)

Shall we go on discussing other Trees?

1. New Spells, Weapons, Traits overhaul, new Meta (Nothing over the opportunity to try new builds and spells keeps me playing atm).

2. More efforts on the classes’ balance, less on developing the Living World.

3. Faster and more frequent addressing of problems in the class balance.

4. New Weapons and Armors skins (hoping in some decent designer). NO RECOLOR, NO RECYCLING OLD MESHES.

5. Lowering the necessity for Grinding and Farming.

Leeto.1570:

Seems lots of players like kitten but only minionmancer likes to take 5 monster kittens at same time. Horrible build, who would want game to play the game for you.

Come on, drop this predjudice of “petting zoo”, “ai plays the game for you”, it’s dumb and wrong.
You’re just damaging your “intelligence”.

MMM let’s imagine what the deterrent could be. If the target break through the area it gets 20 stacks of torment, or 15 seconds immobilize, or 25 vulnerability. >_>
Woah the idea of the 5-8 seconds inside the cage or 15 seconds immobilize sounds funny!
>.<