Guild Wars 2

Can anyone make a video for this bug, upload it on YT and slap it on the Class Balance? We’ll keep bumping it to the agony.

Scepter? Can’t guess why not Axe at this point-

@Yamedo:
I don’t agree so much on that point, you’re showing the Wellmancer as an OP viable spec, but…

• Wells can hit an amount of max 5 targets per hit. So that “10 thing in your well” isn’t that correct.
• The only well that can really sustain you when tanking is Well of Blood. Paired with Ritual of Protection.
  Consider you can hit a max of 5 targets in aoe situations siphoning about 100 hps for tick on an average duration of 5-6 seconds popping all coldowns (once in 30-40 seconds). You’ll be gaining in an arc of 5 seconds (raw duration of our wells, excluded WoB) a total minimum of 500 (1 target) to 2500 (5 targets) health for each well you pop. 2000 (1 tar) _ 10000 (5 tars) hps MAX once every 30-40 seconds during the 5-6-7 seconds of the combo duration.
  Paired with protection and regeneration can be a nice amount, but..
  1) it doesn’t synergize with DS; 2) it heavily scales on the amount of enemies you have around and the damage they deal to you.
• The fact that you’re the only one surviving is because maybe all other players are running Berserker gear or Knights? Just askin.

PS: I tend to consider as all AoEs that Vampiric Rituals would proc on a maximum of 5 targets, can’t really say if it doesn’t have restrictions as other aoes.

Welcome the “OPkittenefacerollpettingzoo” (irony) Minion Master since end of 2012 (not irony).
Some improvements to the AI have been done, but this flaw still persists.

Usually you have to land almost 2 autoattacks so that Minions start attacking, but this won’t happen every time, kittening all your timing.

But yes, this is pointless by the moment people cry out loud MM is op, so a DECENT fix isn’t needed. Again irony?

@Andele:
I didn’t say it’s a bad trait, I said its not THAT good trait.
It’s good in 1v1, but when you have XvX situations Minions gonna draw whatever they can draw, so essentially a single AoE can wipe away Fetid Consumption effect easily.
It’s still better than the passive removals of Guardians and Hunters.

@RashanDale:

Just consider the sum between positive and negative attributes.
The fact that 36% of people who answered the poll thought it was Alright or Great testify that they didn’t think and know enough before answering.

What I’m surprised to see it’s the result on Fetid Consumption.
Nobody made a research to discover the tooltip is uncorrect, that the Minion draws condition from nearby allies.. It’s not a bad trait but it’s NOT THAT good.

The real problem is anyway nobody seems to care that much about discussing and updating their knowledge about the general tree… So we see those results regarding Full of Life & Co… Anyway… I don’t blame them, this should be ANET’s work..

Come on please!
Let those queer anime/manga-ish things outta here.

Wait the March big update to decide.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA
Siphon and Wells :
Actually the only use for Vampiric Rituals is to increase the siphon from wells: they procs Vampiric and Vampiric Rituals (eventually Vampiric Precision) bringing a raw income of 40+65 (and eventually +40 on crits) siphon life; a total of 105_145 health and damage per second on each well (110 _170 with Bloodthirst).
Remember that Well of Blood lasts 10 seconds, Well of Suffering 6 seconds, all other wells 5 seconds (max 4 wells in the bar) on a 35-50 second of cooldown (28 – 40 with Ritual Mastery).
Plus we have to consider the proc of Vampiric and Vampiric Precision (40 _ 80) from autoattacks and Locusts Swarm. And eventually procs from Sigils and Regeneration effects.

Imho the work ANET made on this is a total mess balanced around the max health income in the most extreme good situation.

In Pve it’s “somehow-decent” (it would be ""SOMEHOW"-ok" if Siphoning would be allowed under DS), but in Pvp it’s totally lackluster, nobody would stand in the wells waiting to get every hit.. the max you can hope is the well to tick 2 times and there you’re wasting 30 trait points for 200 siphoned damages on a 30-40 seconds cooldown.

So imho Vampiric Rituals it’s actually TRASH and doesn’t even deserve it’s GrandMaster trait slot. Maybe ger rid of Quickening Thirst and move it on Master trait.. maybe merging with Ritual Mastery.. meh I still think it would be TRASH.

Siphon and Minions:
The real beast is Vampiric Master which is really good with a siphon of 60-80 on hit for every Minion. It can have more uptime and more reliability.
Well it’s still not good as Healing Signet, because it needs other spells, traits and good situation to work with…

Siphon restyle option:
I think Siphoning should need a tweak and a restyle, to go along this path: raising DPS as an alternative to the Spite line and allow good sustain as it should. This can be the real way of getting attrition and build variety.
Starting by removing all the mandatory siphoning from minors and reworking them on a Master/GrandMaster trait.
Ending by allowing healings or siphons under DS.
This way I see siphoning as a good tool for Bunker builds with high sustain or a sustain tool for powerbuilds. Can’t say for condi builds.

Potential alternative mechanics:
Better than the actual situation, in which you can potentially siphon with no restriction a ridicle amount of life, and better than managing and trying to balance a siphon based on a casual proc and an internal cooldown, I’d see it better working like Signet of Vampirism, like “every time you use this spell or procs this effect your target gets marked (or you gain a buff that allows you to..), you siphon life for X times on this target” for a decent amount, similiar to Chill of Death.
Maybe proccing on a % of life? Or with more control entering in DS? Or maybe on Fear application? (I remember a good idea from someone on this forum allowing Siphoning Fears -it would fit for condition builds maybe-)… Or using a signet? Or applying a condition (immobilize for instance)?

The point is there aren’t anymore team games where skilled players carry the game.
In this Event noob players will 100% carry down the team and experienced players too.

They should allow more experienced players to carry the game for those who can’t.

Cmon people, answer the poll and if you have some nice idea let’s make some brainstorming!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1UTbrWPoLJjy8Iy6H7OWFScNhPIUj1zEnqLDDKslzxm4/viewform

The REAL PROBLEM is this design is awesome on 2d, but when they turn it into 3d it’s disappointing.
We really have 1-2-3 nice pieces of armor among, let’s say, 12 sets? The others are just too much silly or average.
http://www.pinterest.com/gioxnostr/hyojin-ahn/

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

…

“sPVP” says it all.

Anyway, the point, we’re talking about a feature of ours (Siphoning) which hasn’t been developed properly, has no sinergy with the class and nobody is caring for it.
It’s not about giving healing under DS to Dhuumfire builds. So you can stop trembling.

That’s why I suggested to make it a GrandMaster trait.

The right chance would be a GrandMaster trait allowing healings under DS.
Or a balanced combination, maybe a 100% of siphons and a 50% of other healings.
It would fit and make potentially competitive bunker builds and promote build variety.

The real point is Siphoning as it works now isn’t eally worth, it should need a smart rework; it doesn’t boost the Dps that much and gives some low sustain which works in Pve when you can stay after a target for prolonged time.

Acandis.3250:

I’m ok with the 5s duration, it promotes coordination and intelligence in order to use it to its maximum potential.

It gives too much occasions to the opponent to decide what to do to neutralize it.
One thing is balance and counterplay, another is totally give the freedom of choice to your opponent.
Atm no experienced player uses it.

@Bull Zooker:
Ops, I modified multiple times my post before deciding to avoid an useless discussion and removing it.
We’re in, let’s dance then.

I had this feeling, by reading your thread, its shape and some word, it seemed to taste snob and inquisitive.
If it’s not then have my apologies.
If you are here simply for sharing experience and to make a constructive talkabout, you’re welcome.

Contextualize your point.
You’re throwing things in a generic way arranging them with no context.

SPvp isn’t competitive PVP, in PVE our dps and utilities are subpar.

What’s the meaning of this thread?

Why not? Substitute that creeping Dagger#2 with something like…
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vampiric_Bite

“Leap at your target and steal some life”.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA

This will be an hard discussion, because most of this line never worked properly so we can’t say where we should aim for.

Minors:

• Full of Life: I’d just say “check this”:
  http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation
• Vampiric: Low values, scaling bad (does it scale?), doesn’t work under Death Shroud. Imho it’s terrible. It does seem like Guardian’s Zealous Blade (Zeal VII). Healing for 25 each hit.. What? It’s a bad standalone minor trait, it needs the interaction with other Major Traits to work.
• Blood to power: Situational, in PVP it’s not good, with healing in Death Shroud it would still have some hope.
  …Increase damage for every Bleeding stack on the target maybe?…

Majors:

• Dagger Mastery: 20% on Dagger Cooldown, the only good thing i see in it is the interaction with Deathly Swarm. 1 Trait for 1 skill?
• Bloodthirst: Can’t really say, maybe it’s because of this that Anet won’t boost Siphoning.. JUst tested, it’s effect is scarce, worthless.
• Mark of Evasion: A somehow nice Adept trait working finely with Sigil of Energy in somehow bunker builds. It’s not the ideal trait because of our lack of Vigor.
• Ritual of Life: This is actually nice in Pve and was really nice before when it didn’t have an ICD, when ressing multiple players with Signet of Undeath.
• Vampiric Precision: Siphon MORE life if you land a crit. Does it have an hidden ICD? The amount is still laughable and I don’t see it viable in PVP.
• Transfusion: A nice tool, but unluckly is totally supportive, you don’t gain any benefit from it. For instance I’d rather Mark of Evasion over this trait.
• Ritual Mastery: The wells CD will still be too long, maybe it needs to get merged with other traits?
• Deathly Invigoration: This trait is a waste. Low scaling for low effect. Spamming and wasting DS cooldown for more sustain each 10 seconds?
• Quickening Thirst: This trait is a waste. Wasting 20 traitpoints in Blood to get an increase in movespeed? I could consider it if it was an Adept trait, anyway I’d see it better get scrapped.
• Fetid Consumption: Really nice trait, a pity its Tooltip doesn’t say that it works for every ally nearby so in large scale fights it’s gonna suck badly.
  PS: If this trait allow minions to draw conditions from each other, then with just a combo field applying conditions this traits makes an autogoal, wasting every proc and totally neutralizing his own effect.
• Vampiric Rituals: This trait is a waste as GrandMaster. Maybe make wells apply Immobilize on each tick. Or totally scrap it away. Better.

Comments: Work In Progress..

Thinking about the goal of this tree, it has Vitality and Healing, traits needed by bunkers, supports (I don’t know of any good Necromancer Supportive build, correct me if I’m wrong), and those “dudes” who needs more survivability and sustain (probably in PVE). But again, in PVE it’s promoted the high dps and in Blood there aren’t traits raising properly your dps..

Siphons can actually increase the dps, by not that much. Around 40-50 per proc.
We do siphon on average criticals (if it has no icd), on autoattacks and generic hits, with minions OR wells.
So while autoattaking or channeling Life Siphon we can have Locust Swarm, each of the Wells or Minions and every our critical strike proccing a siphon, so potentially 5-6 sustained siphoning sources, which will damage and heal for 40 units.
It’s not that much, even running a berserker gear the whole dps will be subpair.

The sustain with protection from Ritual of Protection, the life gain from Life Siphon, Healing Well and Regeneration isn’t bad, but it would be somehow viable only in PVE.

Thinking about Vampiric, it’s similiar to Reanimator, if you go down this traitline you’re forced on having this tool, which is an active/sustain tool, usually required by aggressive builds - it would be-, which is not the only goal of this tree. If anyone wants to go for a supportive role now has this trait which doesn’t help.
Imho the Vampiric and Siphoning traits should be more strong and just a choice between the major traits.

Once in GW1 the Blood spells over being known for the siphon effects (direct or indirect throug terrible Hexes), were also really good because of their supportive role, remember Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, increasing the group DPS or allowing them siphoning (similiar to Signet of Vampirism), or Blood is Power, Blood Ritual allowing energy regeneration on teammates..
-cough This can be a nice idea to allow us Vigor. cough-

Can anyone remember the BiP battery build?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battery

AND to make feel this line more needed, it would need a GrandMaster trait allowing healing under DS, so to make it a staple for Bunker and DS builds. [“Revenant”-like]

What about Erasing totally Dhuumfire and bringing back Spiteful Spirit from GW1?
“Your Life Blast apply stacks of Confusion” lol

Karl McLain.5604:

Profession Changes

Necromancer: …

As other good Necromancers pointed out you’re balancing the whole Necromancer around Dhuumfire.

• This new balance makes Dhuumfire more skill dependant (this is a good way), but at the same time you’re focussing all our cartridges on Death Shroud (this isn’t the good way).
  The point is simple. Give more accessibility to Death Shroud (for example to Condition specs) if you want to go down this path, anyway there’s yet the 10 seconds cooldown on DS punishing the Necro for a bad use of it.. *1
  (This is to avoid situations in which with 0% Life Force half of our skills and capabilities would be locked out)

• Elseway check the Lopez thread.

• Another point, you’re nerfing Minion Master basing on the “feedback” you got on the forums. Is the problem MM is too much passive? Reduce Minion’s actual DPS (not their addictional utility with Vampiric Master) and promote active play by increasing the effects and the damage on their active skills, Combo Finishers.. their cooldowns are fairly long, so…

*1 And don’t forget the vital bug that locks our utilities (and healing too) for 1+ second when getting out of DS..

Whew. your point is good, then go and make a constructive answer on that thread

I’m not complaining about anything, it was just to make people realize to go and quote our better flag carriers.

Anyway how do you see Vampiric Master scaling with Healing Power? We can’t see the percentage of scaling, so we can’t make a precise assumption, but what gear setup would this change push us to? What options does it allow to us?
Is that just an indirect nerf to force us into taking other stats in pvp?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Feature-Build-Balance-Preview

Necromancer:
One of our goals with the past few balance updates has been to add counterplay to various skills that lacked telegraphs. With necromancer, we’re changing the way that Dhuumfire is activated – allowing players the opportunity to react. This will also allow the necromancer to carefully plan their burning application. We’ve also adjusted some values for Minion Master builds based on player feedback.
-Putrid Explosion: This ability is no longer unblockable.
-Training of the Master: Reduced the damage increase to minions from 30% to 25%.
-Dhuumfire: This trait has been changed so that it will make Life Blast inflict 3 seconds of burning with a 10 second recharge.
-Vampiric Master: Reduced the effectiveness of this trait by 10%. The healing portion of this trait will now scale with the necromancer’s healing power stat.

To your attention.

Ahaha wtf is this thread?
I sign for Brando!

Loving dudes playing by just some months going raiding on the other professions’ forums just to start flamewars.
Leaps would be needed only on dagger.

+1

Death into Life can actually be useful just on PVE Minion Mancer builds focused on maxing healing power to support the team.. Which atm is heresy.
A 7% boost from MAX 2000 power it’s 140 Healing power. Which isnt’ anyway that useful. And anyway our healings wouldn’t still be that impressive.

Spiteful Marks would be “good” if raised to almost 30-40% given the Marks cooldown and improving both the DD and the Condition damage, but then again, which build would use it? We must reason about their viability in defined builds, not about the trait as good by itself alone.

Spiteful Removal and Parasitic Bond are BAD because of more requirement to make it proc: I’m not really sure about it, but it requires that YOU land a kill on something. It’s even bad in WVW because you can’t have it procced by allied kills. The requirement is HARD to achieve, the reward is forgettable. And anyway, Parasitic Bond won’t heal you under DS. These would be good traits on an assassin class like Thief, not on Necromancer. It totally goes away from our objective.

While Spite line is yet useful for more builds (Powerbuilds, Conditionmancer in PVP, MinionMancer) it feels like the real problem with this tree is that it’s the only tree for Necromancer that garants a relevant DPS increase (for both the passive Power and Close to Death * ), so it’s mandatory in both PVE and PVP to maximize your damage; and don’t forget all traits to increase the direct damage are on this tree.
This forces a lot of builds into it, while the minors on other trees seems to be just a support to it.
I’d like to see with a potential change to Strenght of Undeath (Soul Reaping minor) if this would change.
After that, it would be nice if as other classes, the Damage traits would be split on the other trees too. Maybe it would give less dependency on Spite line to raise the dps and allow more build variety.

.* Elseway I don’t think anybody would take this trait line. They should solve this problem with passive stats bound to each tree.

Waiting for the next Trait line!

@VodCom: Other locations are the Priory’s, Vigil’s and Whisper’s Seats.
@shasha: Primordius is already awaken.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus

Agree, the Pale Tree is way much similiar to Glint.

Can’t say why all of this remembers me something like this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/d/d7/%22Varesh%22_wallpaper.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Varesh_Ossa

and this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/4/4e/%22Shiro%22_wallpaper.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shiro_Tagachi

All great characters driven mad by demons and gods.

I was thinking about Withering Precision in the Curse tree. It’s another trait balanced around the interaction with other spells and traits, it add 4-5 seconds each 20 seconds to a rotation of skills that garants a good uptime on weakness:
Chillblains + Putrid Mark combo field, then Weakening Shroud, Enfleebling Blood.
At this point it’s better nerfing a single trait than other 4 spells (even if they nerfed them a bit yet -they hit Weakening Shroud and Putrid Mark which wwas proccing 2 blast combo-).
Imho these talents should be really good to exhist as standalone or totally deleted, they don’t have any mean of exhistance.

If you think about it, these multiple interaction were made to make a potential synergy, but they’re limiting it instead of allowing it. They should remove all these “Boon Duration” and “Condition Duration” base stats from the traitlines just to start.

Top Exaggerated thread.
It’s obvious that ANET team doesn’t seem to have the right ideas about Necromancer, but is it a public attitude or the reality? We know for sure they are really slow on developing and they should have given precedence to the balance since Beta.
There’s no need to make social and media tantrum to get something you can’t have (about a game? Really?).

Just adapt to it or move on something else, after all this game isn’t your life.

Once in PVP (before June 2013 patch) it was meta, they badly nerfed it because of it.

We need more help here, we’re still in time to make ANET notice our necessities before the end of the Living World Season!

Answer the poll, give a try to brainstorm on the traits with us!

Spite poll

Every nerd wants his “skill” to be recognized.
Are you playing for fun or playing for your ego?

Bhawb.7408:

…

To your attention

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-patch-on-the-21st-of-January-a-hoax/first#post3530343

Josh Davis.6015:
To clear up the confusion, the balance updates will be in the next feature build – a build that adds features to the game. The next feature build will take place after the Living World season has finished. Today’s update added another chapter to the Living World story arc.
Here’s a quote from Colin’s blog post last year on the subject:

Due to the size and scope of the final four story releases in season one, the next round of major features will be bundled together into a large “feature only” release that will come after the first season of the Living World 2014 has finished. Once the story has completed, we’ll go into much greater detail on what’s to follow, but for now we want to focus on making sure our last four episodes shine.

The above is what we were referring to on the livestream with ‘feature build’. As I mentioned in my post on the PvP forums earlier today, previewing something on Friday and releasing it on the next Tuesday would give us an incredibly small amount of time to react to feedback – and that wouldn’t be fair to you.

I wasn’t claiming something strange, what I wrote was an assumption made about this post.

Cm’on people lets make this again!

Balefire.7592:

Spite poll

Anyway, it seems that ANET wants to give precedence to the Living History, so I assume for the next 2-3 months they won’t add any balance patch, so imho we can discuss, find some solution and propose them to ANET through the Class Balance Forum in time, we have plenty of it.

Yay, this is the thread from the guy who went in the Necromancer forum with bullying attitude declaring “tell me this or I’m gonna check it myself” like if there was an hidden fraud.

Till June 2012 the Necromancer was mocked as a bad class in PVP.
Then Dhuumfire.
Now you declare this?
Yes, Necromancer is strong, but I’m sorry for you, experienced players are going to totally deny you what you mentioned here as a proof.

Epic whine thread, Mr. Angry Inspector.

This sounds so tragic..
What d’you say? Join experienced players on other threads or wait the patch to test it before doing all this mess?

Chill and Torment need DeathShroud. And if you have no Life Force, no Chill and Torment. (Chill from Staff.. it’s a bit intricate spamming conditions from staff and then switch to scepter just for LF)
Anyway, enough with this offtopic.

Balefire.7592:

Spite poll

@ArmageddonAsh: with that noobs won’t have to sit autoattack scepter to win matches. And I welcome it.
The real deterrent here is that if you want to burst you’ll have to pop Death Shroud, involving the necessity for LF and eventually making you a possible focus when your DS-used for the burst- ends potentially leaving you with less defenses.

Here the real problem as Lopez said, is focusing too many tools on the Death Shroud, so making you more weak in the start of a fight and overall if you can’t develop LF properly.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA

Minors:
Parasitic Bond with an ICD of 5 seconds is a somehow decent minor trait in both PVP and PVE. The problem I see here it’s not really a Spite trait, it doesn’t fit with the role of the tree but with the “Spite” word AND it doesn’t work under Death Shroud.
Death into Life is just out of his place and discording with the role of the tree.
Siphoned Power as it is now it’s just trash, getting 5 seconds of Might when people are focusfiring you it’s totally situational and underpowered.

Majors:
I) Death’s Embrace: Downed traits must be scrapped. Never took this and never will I.
II) Spiteful Talisman: It’s fine on an Adept slot. I’d like the focus would be more useful..
III) Spiteful Removal: On death trait with 10 seconds CDR, too much situational, not reliable. I barely never considered taking this into a build.
V) Spiteful Spirit: Too much scarce. I used this just as a filler trait with no better options. It doesn’t deserve the name of one of the strongest GW1 skills.
VII) Spiteful Marks: Worst major trait of this tree. It have to be increased to at least 25%-30% damage increase given the fact Marks have long cooldowns and low damage (both Direct Damage and Condition Damage) or be totally removed and merged. This can be a valuable trait for Condition based buildsin PVP, but the staff isn’t enough strong to deserve a trait like this.
XII) Dhuumfire: The noob&FOTM-metabuild-abuser carrier. With the incoming patch it will have what it deserves.
The only problem with the changes is explained by Lopez in this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Too-much-placed-on-Death-Shroud

This line is over all good, but it has the worst Minors and Adept traits among all the trait lines.

After 10 and more years of online base capping multiplayers, people still don’t want to do it and rathers zerging mid and losing repeatedly the game.

I’m not complaining people wich need to learn.
I’m complaining those which can’t and don’t want to get better and keep on hindering his/her teammates.

This game is too much hard for some people, you can’t sell space shuttles to cavemen.

It’s because of Stability.

Foot in the Grave and Weakening Shroud.
The others are less important.

And think that once in GW1 just 1 Necromancer was enough to have that many minions (before they capped to 10).
Glorious moments!

“This night we go into Sorrow Furnace, LF Minion Mancer!”

So it would be a smart decision to take it away.
Move Foot in the Grave to Master in the place occupied by Near to Death and bring back Shade instead of it, YAY!

@thanatosryback:
If you take some time to read the back posts..
We discussed about it and get to the point that Banshee Veil is a actually the only viable choice for Powerbuilds going into Curse tree, and Spectral Attunement is a good choice because it helps condition builds with LF, which they’re not good at developing.
It’s not a matter of absolutes, some traits are mixed to allow more build diversity, some traits are really good, some are the only choice.
If they’re good traits, think carefully of the build using them, not where they should stay.
_________________

What about going on with the discussion on the remaining trees?

@Fungalfoot
Ok, but don’t take it personally.
Probably some guy from ANET is rolling his face on the top of the ladderboard with his Hambowrrior. I can’t do anything about it.

They think the vessel of the anti condi meta is the Warrior which Healing Signet consist in a basic neutralization of the condition damage. So if it’s part of their Condition Nerf Project, they can’t make it useless for it.

Energy and Geomancy.