Guild Wars 2

stof.9341:

2600 armor is average. Btw, always show your armor stat and not toughness. Toughness itself is worthless.

“2600 armor is average” yay we should all go bunker in Pvp then.
A poor excuse to justify that damage
I’ll make you notice another thing: these Thieves go in pvp with 900 toughness and still have more surv than an “average 2600 armor” (1600+toughness) carrier.

This is what i got today. Necromacers are definetly OP. (irony)

This is probably the keyboard most Thieves are running with.
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/90658/usb_nuke_button_1.jpg

I’d like to remember you one thing, from 8-9 months ago.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg

That mix is what i want to know. There should be a precise theorycrafting after it.
There are particular pieces which offer more CritDamage while sacrifying less points in other stats

Gnat.9405:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLt4dD93pU

I checked this video yet. I thank you, but it’s outdated, it is a bit old, i was looking for something which came out after the last 2 patches (in which the build i’m talking about got some modifies).
Over that it’s exactly what i don’t want to do: going with full berserk gear.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, i’m going to keep your hints in mind.

I got interested in this build and I’d like to try it for Pve, maybe for Fractals.
Since i didn’t found updated guides around, I’m here to seek some advice.

Can anybody experienced link me some online guide or tell me about the gear matter?
I heard that usually it is played full P/P/CritD (Berserk), but it can be played with P/P/T (Knight) gear too, mixing pieces and/or gems or trinkets with CritDamage to gain better survivability without sacrifing too much dps. I’d like to understand the details and which Jewlery it’s better to acquire.

If anybody can help, thanks.

A Mesmer complaining a Necromancer OMG.
Really where are moderators? This is INFORMATION POLLUTION given by a player who can’t measure the OPness of all classes and push to nerf the one he’s in rage with…
Come on, is there anybody who can stop all this absurd thread?

This is ESRB 13+ you can’t give attention to people which aren’t even able to understand the circumstances!

Check this.
Imo above all the fail design gear in the game, this is the best anyone can get for the Necromancer.

Wraith Masque;
Arah Chest and Shoulders;
Human Cultural Tier3 Bracers;
Cof Leggins;
Dredge Boots.

Some moderator should put an end to some people’s possibility of polluting the public information.

Phantaram.1265:

Caffynated.5713:

I felt like necro was mostly OK before this patch. They were the strongest class in game by a small margin, but they had some strong counters. Their lack of mobility was made up for with their great built in survivability even in a glass cannon spec. They could melt you if you didn’t focus fire them, but they couldn’t handle being trained or chain CC’d.

Now, they have just as much damage (terror nerf isn’t even equivalent to 1 stack of bleeding) but we’re juggernauts in death shroud with life force coming out of our ears.

The one major drawback to dhuumfire + terror specs was their poor life force generation. It kept them in check by limiting their ability to use death shroud for attack and defense. The buff to base mark size freed up the points needed to get soul marks (and of course the bonus spectral armor) and coupled with the increased life force generation from spectrals, dhuumfire glass cannons now have an abundance of life force. Couple that with the bug fix to DS ability to soak damage, and it has more than doubled the survivability of a “glass” cannon that was already fairly stout to begin with.

I think this is a pretty accurate analyzation of what has happened between the last 2 patches. +1 Caffynated!

Not really, by the moment that build could generate enough Life Force through Spectral Traits in both Soul Reaping and Curse trees + Spirit Walk and Spectral Wall.

That spec format could just testify that the build and the mechanics weren’t working with logic or synergy.

jmatb.6307:

Lack of mobility? Lack of mobility? Spectral walk, spectral grasp, DS 2, focus 5, Signet of Spite, Golem Charge, ….

Really I dream every night of me riding my Flesh Golem ordering a charge to my other minions and all together rush victorious into the enemies..

Sorry to the OP, but by the moment “we” are heavily offtopic, I couldn’t hold this one.

jmatb.6307:

Poison doesn’t affect res? Fearing people trying to res them doesn’t work? >>

Don’t change your cards, ignorance is ignorance. Bear with it.

jmatb.6307:

Marks can be spammed from 1200 range for condi cleaving downed players. You can be running to another point and spamming the attacks behind you as you run to do that. It’s stupid.

Marks doesn’t affect directly downed players COFFF! COFF!!

Bhawb.7408:

We all know how balanced League of Legends was at launch.

It’s not a good excuse.
Recent modus operandi of most of the game companies it’s not really shiny.

The point is: they released the game uncomplete, they took too much time to think on how to balance it, now that they are in hurry to make it presentable for the E-game tournament, they meet all the problems they left unsolved.

They’re in hurry, their aim now is to make the possible to somehow “balance” the pvp, so the pve gonna suffer it no matter what.
Probably they will promise to rebalance it after the tournament.

It’s bad management and bad design since the beginning.

The more, by reading the other thread is understandable how much they have low knowledge of ingame situations and how much they rely on the forum public opinions.

BTW It’s not strange or bad that they discuss on the pvp section, they can avoid more spam from less skilled players.

Please make different sets for every character.

It’s not easy reaching a compromise to have an effective keybind for every class a player can have.
For example i’d like to keybind the Ranger’s pet action to the mouseweel, but the mouseweel isn’t a precise enough key to manage DeathShroud on the Necromancer or whatever Stance-Like skill.

It would be better if it would be allowed different keybinds to different characters.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

Maroah.8607:

I wouldn’t say that most of these are nerfs. It depends on the situation and build. In some cases these are buffs, in some they are not.

Damage taken while in death shroud will now overflow to the necromancer’s health pool if the damage taken is greater than the remaining life force.
If you take a look at Wiki there’s a note that says
“Taking falling damage while in Death Shroud will drain life force. Any excess falling damage is negated, allowing any necromancer to fall from heights normally deadly”.

This might still be untouched after the patch.
The change might only be affected by damage from enemies.

I’d love this to be true, but i agree with the others that anets reason to nerf it was accessing unfinished/whatever areas. i never had any profit from jumping to an unreachable place and had to port my way back, so i don’t see any problem.

using 11% DS as a shield might seem OP if we could jump in and out of DS at any time, but with a 10s CD (7s traited) doesn’t seem stronger than blocks or vigor (don’t know their uptime on other professions though). plus with addiotional dodges from vigor you’re blocking EVERYTHING for the time of the dodge and not just a single hit ..

Because Mesmers teleporting a whole team isn’t OP yay. Simply smart.

Demonic Flesh, i had the same idea, btw the claws of the Flesh Golem must be avoided as the whole model sucks.

Hammer? Greatsword? Greataxe?

N e c r o m a n c e r.

It is not a kittened Death Knight. It’s not a soldier.

Over that, Necromancer’s spells with weapons should involve magic, not close quarter combat like dagger, axe and similiars.

I’d rather seeing him carrying some kind of Artifacts or spiritual or fleshy weapons in the form of an Engineer or Ritualist gadgets.

If I cannot laugh and cannot flame, i cannot make a constructive answer!

Misplaced textures, rofl

Lightsbane.9012:

in a perfect world, what would you have your necromancer’s name be?

Specify the details for the “perfect world” because there are more level of decence and attinence for names: there are some people who prefer to make original realistic fantasy Rpg names, others quick-easy placeholder names which Pvpers are used to take, leaked-names from exhistent characters from public domains which are used by fans without imagination, etc..

It’s not needed all that intelligence to understand the whole specialization hasn’t even a concept, the fact you’re saying it’s strong is a distortion of yours, by the moment it’s not competitive at all.

Aggravating with a thread like this? Feeling bad for Anet? Anet should feel bad after releasing an incomplete game without even working about concepts and making all specialization avialable. Yeah “L2p”, all that solves around this phrase. I’d say L2 spend your time with something that has more quality than this.

I can’t realize how such people don’t understand the point and defend themself blindly after the “L2P” and claiming skill… Bah.

Offering and explaining the reality with the words of a disillusioned player isn’t “Complaining in every minion thread”.

Diffusing misinformation and hiding Anet error’s isn’t a correct thing to do.
Time is precious.

@Bhwab: Please stop claiming Minions are ok, they totally lack design and if you give this kind of feedback, then Anet won’t never fix them as they should be.

Bunker builds working great? What about the advantage of Flesh Wurm?
You’re saying some correct things and exagerating others in a wrong manner.

@CrossFire: Consider this. The MM isn’t indipendent, has a lot of flaws, in both Pvp and Pve. It is bad designed, what you see is the result of a randomic experiment from Anet with placeholder skills and traits.

Some players having fun in playing them (some to show their skill, some for dedication) will say that you can do marvelous things with Minions, but that’s not pretty correct.
Organizing with your team to make a Minion Mancer viable means wasting a lot of time and having competent team-mates (and however the result is not reliable * ). That’s not a thing that every Necromancer who wants to run Minions can do. That’s not how Minion Master should work.

The only thing that makes the Minion Mancer resilient is the fact that you are forced in bringing 20-30 points in Death (200/300 more toughness + related gear).

I’d suggest you 1 thing. Dont play minion builds in Pve, don’t waste moneys and time building a Minion Mancer equipment, as at the moment it’s not competitive.
(I made the mistake long time ago and had to remake another equipment for conditionmancer, thus wasting a lot of time and effort)

* In most games and mechanics, adapting a whole team to a particular design option (Minion Master in this situation) works ONLY if that option is a win-card. A pity MM isn’t that card. That’s why in Pvp compositions matter the most the classes which have a better balance and that occasionally are indipendent.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

they still rely on a lot of personal skill to pull it off compared to other “easier” builds like wells and such.

It’s not a matter of skill.
It’s not a matter of difficulty.
It’s a matter of bad design.
It’s a matter of enjoying playing with broken stuff.

When pigs will gonna fly, then yes, necro will be Op.

I’d say Necromancer OP when we will be able to go around in berserker gear and survive like mesmers and thieves do abitually.
The trade in dealing so many damages with no mobility, escape mechanisms and lack of design is fair as it’s now.

It was predictable by the way with a team which releases an incomplete game and waits 10 months to review the basis of its investiment.

That’s why it would be better if they would redesign the Minions.
The actual Minion system is flawed and compromised.
Trying to patching the actual system could end in a waste of effort and a dead end.

Bas.7406:

My input is simple. Minions will never be in the “Meta” so to speak simply because top players hate AI determining a kill. They may be viable, but they will always suffer in team fights for multiple reasons.

The AI from illusions and turrets then? They should just modify minions so the AI wouldn’t interfere too much. For example giving them some kind of threath not just depending on their target focus.

Bas.7406:

Necromancers who face MM in a team fight can stack conditions on a minion and then use it to spread conditions without ever worrying about it being cleansed.

Once there was this spell http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Verata%27s_Sacrifice.jpg

Bas.7406:

MM die easily to any class with strong aoe. Once the minions are dead, you lose a significant portion of your ability to survive.

Once there was this spell http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jagged_Bones

Bas.7406:

This means that an MM really can only be the back point defender or you have to drop full MM (which is always best). the problem is the Necromancers doesn’t have the ability or mobility to push far point and then retreat to back point as engineers, thieves, elementalists, Mesmers, and rangers do.

They could work talents like Protection of the Horde giving movement speed, solving the problem of mobility of Minion Mancer without buffing the other specs

Bas.7406:

This means in team fights is where the necromancer is strongest and minions are exposed because they can be taken down, used as ways to project damage onto other teammembers without an out, and they are single target 1v1 destroyers, but thieves, Mesmers, and warriors all do it faster which in tournament pvp is more importants so AOE pressure from condi necros, and ridiculous damage from power necros are more necessary to teams.

That’s why they should implement a backfire system like Tainted Shackles: which is giving the opponent an opportunity of choice with an opportune threath; the backfire should work like this: destroying the pets would mean increasinging the pressure on the opponent self or giving buffs to the Necromancer itself, maybe multiple quantities of Life Force, Might Stacks, some aoe Dispelling effect, some conditions, like Torment or a prolonged Poison condition on the opponent.. Not like the actual Death Nova which is just ridicle.

This way it should synergize better with the overall design.

PS: Another thing regarding Shadow Fiend. Its utility, even with a lower cooldown would be useless in pvp, there isn’t space in the build for a single spammabile single target blind (which we yet have on dagger #4). It should be better if the blind would be aoe or maybe creating a smaller Darkness Well. (What i suggest, anyway, it’s to delete it definetly and put in a more useful minion, with a different utility)

Great, really thanks for sharing your experience and being so clear, it’s a priceless thing in this period

Hi there, in your opinion what are between your builds those which you consider part of the actual metagame and thus more viable in tPvp?

Cempa.5619:

Those builds are for sPvP and the Ranger ones are all melee/condition. The best advice any one can give you is experiment…All the builds that got nErfed were discovered over many hours and much gold spent experimenting…

Thanks for the advice, but i have to point that i’m actually looking more for tPvp competitive builds, that’s why i’m asking about the Meta. The Meta consists on the most viable build, those most competitive, which works better and are played as the top in the competitive environment.
About the experimenting, it’s better sharing informations with other players, so anyone can avoid worthless or lackluster Traits or build (gaining more time) and focus more on what works better.

It would be a total nerf. Reducing the number of conditions removed but not reducing his cooldown it’s a clear fail.
Simply compare it with Deadly Swarm whichactually does the same thing.

bezim bezec.8635:

jubskie.3152:

This might be what you’re looking for:

http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/1glsqs/metapro_builds_list/

These are the builds that pro teams use during tournies/scrims.

…those ranger builds are considered the ‘meta?’ lol. Maybe this is one of the main reasons why so many rangers are complaining about how the class sucks compared to others.

What is it with rangers and their incompetance and making an interesting and effective pvp build?? Alot of these builds in this thread just don’t make much sense and have alot of ‘loose ends’. I guess this comes from lack of experience while playing other classes though.

Thanks for the “incompetent” title. I need more experience with Ranger, it’s not my main class, but i have not that much time to waste on refining a build, and i’m not playing it to prove anything to anyone, i’d like just to learn some competitive builds to play on pair with other classes.

I’d like to know which builds you pointed at are considered senseless and with ‘loose ends’.
Maybe provide an average list of the builds you consider actual avialable metagame

jubskie.3152:

This might be what you’re looking for:

http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/1glsqs/metapro_builds_list/

These are the builds that pro teams use during tournies/scrims.

Yay that’s what i’ve been looking for; a pity it’s not updated to the latest patch, by the way it’s a nice reference!
Thank you for the help.

I congratulate with you for all the dedication you’ve put in (I stopped long time ago doing this kind of things).

I’d like to say something i noticed.
1) The changes you proposed are nice to make the spec slightly more viable, but after that it still needs a lot of work to become a meta-viable spec.
2) One problem with the Minions is that they aren’t useful like other utilities. Example, check the Wells: you can bring them in builds which aren’t forced into taking traits regarding wells and they still perform good. Minions (excluded the Golem and somehow the Wurm) are way too much dependant from Traits and Death Traits specifically. They have no real utility in other specs.
It’s like they cannot perform without determinate Traits. Note that too: Wells and some other spells aren’t dependant from traits because their related traits usually works on the cooldown, they doesn’t modify the spell itself that much.
3) Minions are presented as a special characteristic of Necromancer, but they have no synergy with Death Shroud, nor Conditions, nor Pressure, nor Life Force generation.
4) The design of the mechanic; the fact that they are an use-and-forget walking turret isn’t that great. They have no passive nice effects.
5) You didn’t mention the problems with Reanimator and Protection of the Horde being usel&ss both in whatever Death build not bringing minions and whatever Minion Master build.
I feel the Jagged Horror as a placeholder… it’s again a design flaw.
6) Vampiric Master. I don’t feel it’s that good. If minions would be near 8-9 and permament it would be somehow decent. As it is now it’s not worth a Master Trait.

Good Luck, and hope your message will reach the Staff.

“Thief QQing, buy toughness, nerf necro, blablah, more nonsenses…”

I leave you trolls in the hands of a Moderator.

Alright, so the situation is this. Thanks for the feedback, i’ll insist on finding something viable for the metagame.

Do the same thread about Thieves and Mesmers.
Trollthread..

So, can anybody write anything?
I don’t think there isn’t a single build which is more competitive in Pvp..

Obvious it should go in a minion build.
Why Good?
300/second isn’t really correct, most minions have different attack speed and frequency.
My own siphoning from vampiric is about 40 per hit and I can get more healings than Vampiric Master with just Mark of Blood.
Over the fact that, as i wrote earlier, the pets won’t be hitting the target every time..
In a Pve contest the healing won’t save the master from aoe or huge damages, in Pvp contest it becomes even less useful.
Consider the spike from a Thief or a Mesmer. 18k hps go down in few seconds. This trait doesn’t offer any sustain even to a bunker build..

With this the Blood Tree seems to be useless for a good 85%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vampiric_Master

“Minion attacks would heal you for 79 per hit without Bloodthirst and 114 with Bloodthirst.”

I confirm the wiki’s version, i tested it.

It’s a poor to ridicle quantity, considering the fact there are multiple difficulties for the pets to costantly hit the target.
It doesn’t scale with Healing Power, it doesn’t scale with minion’s damage, to me it seems totally strange nobody ever blamed about it.

I’d like to hear more opinions.

Thanks for the hint, by the way i’d rather having a list of the actual meta builds: there on the sticky post you can find old, more for pve, Wvw and more personal builds, it’s not exactly what i’m looking for.

I’d like to understand what’s rolling on the actual metagame.

I’d like to get a summary of the most competitive and avialable builds at the moment in Pvp (p/tPvp maybe, not Wvw).
If anybody with some experience would like to share some of his experience, it would be kindly accepted.

I yet checked a Trapper Condition build similiar to this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAnfVjEVx11VWWo2Bi2DKZeMxeYIH9IXhRNhUA-TkAimUN5ay0ksJbTjKWLMrA

I’ve seen around some Condition Bunker running around which i’m interested in.

Thanks for the attention.

The double source of bursting through Terror and Burn is nice, but even with 1600 Toughness and 18k Hps the Necromancer with this build is tremendously squishy.

The problems are the same as ever. Low mobility, scarce Life Force generation, dependancy from Life Force, impossibilty to open a fight, easy to nuke down, just 18k hps (don’t tell me Death Shroud offers a valuable hp pool because of the LF problems; it’s not reliable as it is now).
I’d rather some pvp trinkets giving Vitality, Precision and Cond Damage more than Toughness.
I’d like to possibly speccing into Blood to have Vitality and some Trait which should synergyze with Contidions….. (Maybe taking away Transfusion and Deathly Invigoration which are imo just thrash). Don’t mention Mark of Evasion because isn’t that useful for the build.

So essentially you just have to sit back, wait for teammates to open the fight, try to survive spikes, make your team babysit you.
The damage is nice, but like this the Necromancer has no survivability. I see Thieves and Mesmers going around in Berserker gear having more survivability…
Noobs die easily, but experienced players gonna give serious problems.

Confirmed, the Staff 4 removes just 3 conditions from the Necromancer.

@Solandri.9640:
Atm I am able to read(!) and I knew it ressed the pet, and i know too that i had to re-kill the pet. I did whatever was needed to kill the pet/ interrupting the ranger.
Didn’t expect the bug was yet reported.
To everyone: I understand it’s an hard period for Rangers, so keep your mood safe and clean, no need to be acid and unpleasant. This is not a whine.

Note: Moderation for this post wasn’t necessary, it isn’t offensive at all, and people who reported it should really think about themselves.

Fuzzion.2504:

Come to WvW where none of these problems exist.

WvW isn’t Pvp.

It depends on the scenario.
I see Flesh of the Master mandatory only in a full minion build.
Flesh Golem is, even considering his flaws, the best overall elite for generic situations, while Plague is just situational and Lich Form is mainly for bossfights with power builds.

So yes, you can and should run it in general pve even without Flesh of the Master.