I feel post patch good eles and guards are very hard to hande against. But good cele/condi signet necro is a hardest counter. Condi abundance, condi transfers, boon converts, good sustainability with lf generation prevails most of the time.
I can just attest that mesmers are utterly broken when it comes to WvWvW roaming.
Already 2 weeks ago I noticed that in fights of 5-10 enemy players mesmers made up half of the enemy force. I read my combat log a lot. Today I haven’t had any other enemy profession damage me, except mesmers + enemy siege golems. The ability to reset fights, chain stuns, do big burst from stealth, mobility with blink + traveler runes is good. Mesmers are right now more broken than thief ever was. When one profession comes as dominant as mesmers are right now, it takes away the diversity from the game.
How to fix this:
Mesmers has access to way too much stuns at moment: mantra of distraction + confounding suggestions (which should have 15 icd or have the stun part removed, it is way too powerful master trait). Signet of domination is a whopping kitten stun with this trait at 1200 range. Luckily very few mesmers use that signet.
Chaotic Interruption has way too much goodies packed into one trait: giving 2 second immobilize, 5 stacks of might, random boon and random condition. The immobilize part should be removed.
Blinding dissipation has no icd and great synergy with ineptitude, allowing blind spam at ease.
Harmonius mantras gives a stacking dmg bonus, which should be removed.
Mesmers have access to too long lasting stealth with Prismatic Understanding and ability to damage from stealth via their clones and phantasms, while NOT getting revealed. The +100% stealth increase from PU trait should be removed and reverted to +1 second.
Mesmers have access to much combat mobility: blink has mere 25 s traited CD and it is a stunbreak as well. Staff #2 has 10 icd random teleport. Not to mention portal, which can change the tide of an entire battle and probably the most powerful utility skill in the game. Yet I do not suggest nerfing portal.
Mesmer has tons of boon stripping, but I am really fine with that, because it fits the profession.
You are tottaly right!!!1
But class need slightly more adjusting.
Autoattacks:
Mesmes autos hit too hard or too fast. Gs aa should have only 1 hit (3 hits is OP). Sword AA inflict condi and remove boon on 3rd attack. No boon striping except trait.
Scepter AA is fine, mb make projectile little slower.
Mantras:
Of course no background recharging. Should have some cast time.
Stealth:
Any phantasm summon should reveal.
Armor and health:
Armor of mesmer class is low so it is ok. But mesmers should have lesser health pool for balance goal (now medium hp pool).
Have much more suggestions, but those above should be done ASAP!!!12
This thread seems to be some type of nerf competition started by fellow thief, oops mesmer OP.
Do you really wrecks good players of other classes on 1×1 servers?
I think you don’t even understand how huge is this nerf . MoD is using not only offensive but defensive too. E.g. to stop thief burst when stunned, prevent interrupt when casting skills like MI or Ether feast, prevent stomp while casting MI,etc.
Personally I’m ok with current state of mesmer. Ppl still handle mesmers in 1×1 duels.
I was meaning the daze goes from 1s to 1/4s so it interrupts but doesn’t give the long lasting daze. Cast time still instant so you can still use it while casting.
Yup, got it wrong.
Anyway this 75% daze duration cut does touch defensive and utulity use of MoD much.
#Power Lock (MoD): Daze foes for 1s, Number of Targets: 5, Radius: 180, Range: 1,200 Make it a 1/4s daze so it keeps it’s interrupt play but nerfs it’s CS interplay with bursting people down. The affected target will be barely stunned and more than capable of being able to dodge the burst if you lead with this.
I think you don’t even understand how huge is this nerf . MoD is using not only offensive but defensive too. E.g. to stop thief burst when stunned, prevent interrupt when casting skills like MI or Ether feast, prevent stomp while casting MI,etc.
Personally I’m ok with current state of mesmer. Ppl still handle mesmers in 1×1 duels.
I can agree with the issue of mesmers summoning phantasms or proccing power lock and keeping stealth. However, wanting to remove that and reduce their stealth uptime just tells me that they want mesmers to be easy kills and are not interested in improving the game at all.
Yup, I appreciate this direction (dmg) much more then previous boring bruiser meta. Even now full zerk should spend much time against good(not just sitting on cleric and eating damage) at dodging\blocking\invuln tanky guard.
False in so many ways. The idea about clones/phantasms/illusions would be able to copy mesmers mimics, and perform same animations as mesmers, which is fairly easy to achieve from programming wise, since mechanics for this are already in the game.
:D
And do same damage as real one, have same health, same combos (hmm, if clone starts shatter should real mesmer blows up? ), same movement patterns, same dodge jumps and LoS, same boons, buffs, mantras, etc. Mb then I would have problems with distinguish real mesmer.
How do you “react”? You can stealth before entering the line of sight of your opponent!
From my experience I usually have ~0.5s till whole burst lands on me. It’ enough most of the time. If I haven’t this time – usully not oneshoted (mesm with maradeur amu). Defensive traits helps. Now when I am aware of mesmer it is another game.
The problem with “predicting” it is that even without traits you can initiate this from 1200 range with no advance warning.
Thef can do the same thing. With less damage though.
I’m not claiming it’s unbeatable, but it’s a very gimmicky, very safe “1+ for 1” tactic that only takes raw mechanics practice to execute.
Idk. I have problems with thieves and shatter mesmers, but can handle them most of the time. I usually still can react to such burst even from invis. + it is still very predictive. MB not ‘raw mechanics practice to execute’.
Also care to elaborate how stealth would be “destroyed”? Good luck manually aiming autoattacks, as you can’t do it in top-down view. AoE isn’t always available, and many gapclosers require a target to cast, so melee cleave will also be severely limited. And as I said the exact animation could be adjusted, for example random “distortion” pulses within 180+ radius, enjoy figuring out the center-of-mass on that before the stealth ends anway.
Emm?..
Ranged skills just as an example of worst case, but… Do you remember that Helseth gs2 thief oneshot without any ‘blurred stealth’. Right use of positioning and camera makes it much easier. Melee attacks (e.g. axe warr, etc), aoe spammers (e.g staff ele, grenade eng,) just would wreck such type of stealth. I had many easy kills when there was a time with only visible damage numbers from invisible opponents.
Such type of stealth loose most of offensive and devensive capabilities.
Good luck with escapes from zergs.
Actually, what if stealth worked like in Starcraft, so you can still see the silhouette of the enemy? Ofc you still can’t target them directly, but at least you see their rough position. Could obviously be tweaked to show only a blurred cloud (where you can’t even make out the number of stealthed players standing next to each other), a blurred silhouette (where you can’t make out specific skill animations, but see they’re doing something), or the full model like we already get for allies.
This destroys stealth pretty much. There are no need to target enemy to inflict damage. Even ranged auto attack still culd be used to hits non-target enemies, with some exceptions like mesmer spartial surge.
Yes, mesmer can do big burst from stealth, but they blows multiple CD’s for it. Stealth, blink, dodge, gs2, shatters, MoD. More damage then thief, but less rate of applcations.
If you have problems with such burst – treat it like thief burst, be predictive.
If you don’t play with ‘cheap’ class – just don’t play such way.
Forget about 10% from signet, but numbers are similar (assuming traits boon duration nerf).
FI would be much more interesting trait if no ICD though with multiple interrupts
Such a detailed, thoughtful explanation as to why, Guang-senpai.
Consider me enlightened.
(No seriously, why?)
- Mesmer has quickness on interrupt, gets increased GS CD with every auto-attack, and a GS skill that interrupts
Whut? GS 5 is not interrupt. It could interrupt if landed correctly. Quicknes usefull for AA spam (crappy on mesm) or combos (gs2 with 0.56s cast time istead 0.75s – gamebreaking?). Thats’ why FI not popular.
Since boon duration applies to SOI’d boons twice (once on initial application, again on spread), you can get triple duration on any boon, meaning the 3s quickness on interrupt you get becomes 9s for everyone else, i.e. almost Time Warp levels.
Whut? “once on initial application, again on spread” – ? Where from you took it? You played mesmer and tested it? Cuz it’s not right. No boon duration reapplication on spreading. Even more – you spread boon with left duration, not with initial duration. 0.5s of might left after signet cast – u spread 0.5s might
Even assuming the 30% boon duration from traits is nerfed, that’s still +45% from equipment alone, or 2.1x total multipler.
Again whut? If no boon duration from traits than it’is only 15% from equipment only (counting trav runes).
Quickness 3s + 15% = 3.45sec. Time to note buff 0.1-0.6s + signet cast time 0.75 ~ 1s+.
So most time u spread quickness for 2-2.5s. Pvp gamebreaking? Doubtful. Pve gamebreaking when bosses have defiant bar?
I’d like to propose the idea to add consumables to pvp. Namely harpy feathers.
I think having on demand stealth on 5s cooldown would really help to add a great deal of versatility to this dull meta.
Is it for pvp? I see pvp amulet, but triumphant dist for pvp? Idk. As I see build heavily oriented for phant damage, but you have only gs berserker power oriented phantasm. MB sw/focus? Cele amu on mesmer?
How you feel it by yorself? Esp TD trait.
Probably it would be good fix, but still minor imo. It emphasize 3rd AA chain hit, while it’s relatively hard to land all 3 hits for me at least (low speed attack, need to chase enemy at melee range on light armor and usually zerk build, etc).How often u successfully land full sw AA cycle from pvp standpoint? For me it mb something like 5% of sw time (not including downed and ressing ppl). Idk, mb some attack speed buff?
Sword melee 3 times dmg of gs max range. And then the cleave makes it 9 times unless they line up.
Not correct.
GS max range damage 0.945 coef, cast time 1.4s, dps = 0.675
Sw hit cycle 0.6 + 0.6 + 1.1 (0.9 if enemy has boon) = 2.3 coef, cast time (full cycle) ~ 2.5s, dps = 0.92 (or 0.84 vs enemy with boon)
So 0.92 / 0.675 = 1.3629 times better. Or sword AA better then max GS AA only by 36% (not counting boons, conditions, sigil procs, etc). Even less sw AA dps If you not managed to go through full AA cycle because most damage attack is 3rd in a row. Only ~15% better for 1st and 2nd attack in sw AA chain if I’m not wrong.
Personally think sword autos need some type of buff.
Not often, but happens. One ranked game nobody said a word, but our shatter(!) mesmer started AFK just because he wasn’t able to kill 1 enemy turret engi. We captured other 2 spots and was leading by 100+ points and he goes AFK and blaming engies because of rage… We ask him to help at other spots, but “I’m not playing when turret engineers in match” And we lost that match…
@echo, The green text comes up with each time I press print screen so I don’t know what you’re trying to get at. If you have to spam print screen in order to get one screenshot then maybe your button is broken? And I acted far worse? Where? The text you see at the top of the chatbox was from before the match started when our ele asked if he could take the home point. That was the text from the match. Yes, all of it. And yes, I saved the screenshot as ‘pathetic’ because that’s what it’s showing. So I’ll ask you what I’ve been asking other when they try to attack me. Your point being?
yes every time you hit the print screen button the green text shows up HOWEVER the FIRST time you hit the printscreen button the green text does not show up in the the screenshot itsself. it only shows up in the following screenshots. The point is you did not take 1 screenshot here. What else is rather interesting is how did you know he was just sitting spamming autoattack while you were busy pveing and watching the ele get 2v1’d? So somewhere within the 8 minutes he got rage quit because of the two things you said to him….why is that hard to believe?
Rofl you can to the forum (of all places) looking for sympathy, when you yourself can’t give it. Suck it up or alt+f4
Mr Sherlock Holmes?
MB 2nd ss after extending chat window?
Though OP was rude but this is not excuses the leaver behavior. He/she harms not only OP but other teammates too. Only one thing I see could be an excuse. Her days.
Still ppl can abuse through minimap drawing and can not be reported. But it’s not an serious issue. Easier way to communicate = easier way to verbal abuse. But in 1st place it is a way to communicate, not to harm other ppl.
It’s just technical issue. Probably it can be solved with low price/effect ratio. Mb some reports counter (at even break point – mute for week), personal banlist, 10-min stored audio, etc.
In game voice has never helped games that had it built in.
If you are really want team communication and team based tools, the solution is obvious and it has nothing to do with Anet.
Wow!
Proofs (for all games with buit-in voice chat)?
I would be pleased to have convenient in-game voice chat tool at the pugs (i.e. unorganized ppl) disposal.
Your proof is all over youtube. Just go look up any FPS with built in voice coms and cringe.
I played FPS with built in VC and had only good experience. If your exp differs – give it a try. Or press mute/ uncheck settings. Mb system like dishonor: you are going to be muted for some time if was reported N times recently.
Don’t afraid cars!
I play the same game as you and I have my own experience with it, I’m allowed an opinion without it being called nonsense. It makes a lot of sense to me.. after all I’m sure there’s some out there who agree with me. Some people in my guild do, one of them is a Mesmer!
Don’t want to insult, but majority of responders clearly aware that you are inexperienced in pvp and new to it. Just bring given tips to practice and/or play mesmer for some time to see how it works. You would learn how to handle mesmers soon.
For years, ANet has nerfed thieves in many different ways but never introduced a punishment for their skills being interrupted. I believe the Thief initiative system is easily misunderstood by other classes and it seems as if the thief simply uses whatever skills he wants when he wants to use them, but this isn’t the case – and ANet clearly has concern for the balance of Thieves when it comes to initiative, cooldowns, and
For me it seems like many thief players try to defend their position through argument “it is a way how it work now, thus should work all time”. It’s not a correct ground to base on. Correct base is balance, build, playstyle diversity, etc. I admit that better to keep current thief playstyle (flexibility through global weapon CD) if u don’t like 5sec cd on 1 weap. skill. But interrupt with PB should punish more. Ini eating (-2 or -3) or other effect (0.5s knockback all classes, etc) should be there. It is not lockdown vs thief. It is PB vs other classes and thief esp.
Compensate what? Fix to mesmer trait? Let’s be honest, even fixed (in way to put thief weapon skills on 5s CD) it doesn’t break thieves and still mediocre. Right now it merely wasted GM trait against thief and somewhat useful against others.
And good CI mesmer isn’t fine against good (sic!) meta thief imo. Have chances, but not fine. There are not too much good thieves though.
Anet makes money on skins. Mb this is a reason? Anet need money sources. But if it is not big deal (spvp skins money wise vs attractiveness of better pvp) I prefer standrt models
Good point but who told them to make all characters the same? Transforming just the asuras into humans would solve the problem. Types of armor, weapons and coloring could have stayed as it was. The only weapons that are op are some legendaries because for necro for example they make all the projectiles look the same
I think for fair pvp skins should standard too. But this idea make sense as intervening step to be realized in practice and unranked imo
Anet makes money on skins. Mb this is a reason? Anet need money sources. But if it is not big deal (spvp skins money wise vs attractiveness of better pvp) I prefer standrt models
I successfully steal enemy mob time to time, if I know enemies are going for it. Just my experience.
You waste time and\or CDs to kill mob, thus in case of decent enemies they can realize this advantage.
Let’s build some model.
There no 50 pont difference for each mob. Let’s see it as shopping: your team spends some resources (ppl time, cds, positions) to buy 25 points per mob. But enemy team (or your team in hypothetical situation with loss 25 points) meanwhile doesn’t waste their resources to buy 0 points. That’s why you can’t sum up actual 25 points gain and potential 25 points loss. Because neutral kills aren’t free, they cost some money (resources). You can do this (sum up) only if enemies spent their resources for 0 points, being AFK for example . But in reality they spend it to buy 2 captured points. What probably leads to loss as I tried to show above (2 points all game > 1 point + neutral farming). In some case enemy team can’t capitalize initial advantage (weak enemies, bad comp, no coordination) and doesn’t able to capture 2 points, but same we can say about neutral – sometimes (often?) u can’t capitalize initial rush because of steal.
I don’t say that your scenario doesn’t work. But in case when both teams are good and coordinated, it is not optimal imo.
Worse situation with ferocity. Taking ferocity can be useful, but in so few cases so better to have a habit to ignore it.
Sorry bro, but it totally l2p issue.
Seems you started pvp recently. Read and use tips above to deal with mesmers. With experience you will distinguish real one subconsciously. Most time consuming task would be mouse movement (or tabbing) to mark mesmer, but not search real one.
Practice arenas shouldn’t keep score at all. As in wins or loss don’t matter, offer no rewards, no track advancement, EXP. Nothing. That way those who want to practice and try different builds, tactics, etc. would be free to do so, without dealing with rank farmers and those who just want to log in and get an easy win.
Its practice. It shouldn’t reward you.
I’m not against, but…
Do you wanna those daily profession guys move to rated arenas?
Consider practice mode like mode for test builds, mechanical skills, off point fun fights, and other frivolous things. Unranked for tactic testing and build. Don’t take practice fights to heart.
case A: you kill your beast, you get 25 points, the enemy 0
case B: the enemy kills your beast. you get 0 points, the enemy 25.
B-A = you: -25; enemy: +25. Total difference = 50
Your math isn’t legit. You sum potential point gain and actual point gain. Don’t overcomplicate it. Farm neutrals by their spawn CD from start of game can possibly lead to disadvantageous positions whole round
You give enemy team possibility to 4 (or less) vs 5 on all 3 spots (it doesn’t restrict only by mid point, they can go for ur close too e.g.) for some time.
I can let you cap mid if it means i get your beast, mine, and then can come and kick you @ss 4v4.
You think it is easy to do?
Ok if we have no reputation in ut eyes – I offer you to look some WTS\ESL. They vry rarely do mob kill at start cause it dangerous and unprofitable (depends from comps though).
I am actually really really mad at the noobs who don’t know math who purposedly ignore Svanir and the chieftain, giving the enemy team a 50 point advantage for each, when it takes literally 3 seconds to kill them with 3 players.
Nothing can win you points as effectively, still people go and rush mid which is going to be contested anyway, and leave your team’s beast open for stealing.
This is the reason I NEVER select the forest, as I hate losing to our team’s not knowing how to count.
And by the way, rangers and power necros even need to go this way when opening, to position properly for lich + what rangers do.
I think you are very wrong.
1. Only 25 points for each.
2. Prepare to
I say again, if it is a close match or right at the start of the match and you have a point neutralized always go for the capture point and the team fight first.
Why? Mb let it be? It’s one thing between others which unexp player sometime will learn. I mean players should try to learn not only mechanical skills, group fights, but map tactics too. Possibly it is good for game? Really idk.
Some math:
“NPC monsters spawn after some time and then after every 3 minutes in the north-western and north-eastern corner. Defeating them grants your team 25 points”
If u kill neutrals by CD they will spawn approx. at 0m, 3m, 6m, 9m, 12m
It equals to 250 points. 1 captured point give 1 point every 2 sec. If match goes for full duration (15m) equals to 15*60/2 = 450 points per match. If we limit duration to 12 min, then 12*60/2 = 360 points.
So you can go for neutrals whenever u want if enemies are weak, but if they able to realize those time handicap or just steal – choose right moments for neutrals
Azuras are just walking meatballs for charrs. So other race too, except sylvari. Silvari are scratching posts.
But azuras has some advantage of size in wvw. Easier to hide in keeps. There are still home server tag above ur character but it placed below relatively other races . Enemy see ur /sleep and start sweeping keep to find you. As charr mesmer me using sometimes transformation to smaller creatures, but this is not convenient.
Edit: almost all thief weapon skills with cast time have a chance to be interrupted -> loose iniative -> should be punished more with PB (imo).
Not sure if this is a language barrier problem or what, but:
Black Powder
Dancing Dagger
Cluster Bomb
Choking Gas
Infiltrator’s Return
Cloak and Dagger
Body Shot
Do NOT use initiative when interrupted.
The rest of the abilities are:
Evasions
Instant, non-interruptable
Heartseeker
Unload
Yeah, my bad, not clarified. I know about this, but decided not to mention this with goal not to overburden thread and not to derail it. I mean interrupted skills should always use ini imo, and as next step – PB should affect this more. But it’s for another topic.
The preceding sentences to the one you quoted stated that the only valid reason to change PB in a thief specific way is to improve the matchup against thieves, since there are already many build choices players can make that are weak against certain matchups. Your response totally ignores this and responds to the sentence fragment as if it stands on its own.
Ok. I don’t think lockdown build utterly hopeless against thief. Lockdown with CI trait has some chances. But PB doesn’t bring anything worthwhile GM trait (from my current point of view) on the table. Neither against thief, nor against other classes. That is why I said I don’t consider PB to be GM trait worthy even if anet would fix it to work with thief. Ok, some traits can be useless against few class builds, but not against whole class (pls don’t remind HiS), while mediocre in general . Just rework trait to not exclude whole class from its field could give some help to this trait.
The only real reason to ask for a power block specific buff against thieves is to improve the matchup against thieves.
Imo mesmer users ask GM trait be worthy. Some ask to remove it at all and bring new. If thief players count Assassin’s Equilibrium as useless and ask for rework – I don’t think other class users would protest till it balanced.
Dude, I’m talking about specific mesmer GM trait called Power Block in topic called “Power Block and Thieves”.
Edit: almost all thief weapon skills with cast time have a chance to be interrupted -> loose iniative -> should be punished more with PB (imo).
Edit2: there are obvious problems with lack of ability to interrupt thief skills, but this thread about PB and that is why we are talking about PB.
Evade duration = activation time in the tooltip, so this is a bug I guess.
Works as intended () ). Tooltip inaccuracy I think. Game hasn’t fractions lesser then 1/4 for tooltips at this moment. Those evade frames window lesser then 1/4 so we have what we have.
Yes it does. It just doesn’t hit any of the meta thief builds. Some people actually use HiS. Against a Thief with HiS, PB interrupt could be a death sentence.
No it doesn’t.
1. If = If. Now all are using withdraw (less than half of classes uses interruptible healing skills…)
2. PB doesn’t affect thief weapons skills. If you interrupt thief weapons skill – thief is loosing initiative spent for this skill (iniative is some type of substitute for usual weapon CDs – with global pool for all skills). PB should aggravate this punishment.
), same movement patterns, same dodge jumps and LoS, same boons, buffs, mantras, etc. Mb then I would have problems with distinguish real mesmer.. What else is rather interesting is how did you know he was just sitting spamming autoattack while you were busy pveing and watching the ele get 2v1’d? So somewhere within the 8 minutes he got rage quit because of the two things you said to him….why is that hard to believe?
