The last thing to note is that I always avoid taking desperate decoy. It can and will get you killed, by proccing as you use an attack and causing you to get revealed at a really awkward moment. I always take phantasmal fury instead, purely because desperate decoy will kill you.
Had similar problems. After patch seems any illusion summoning skill (both weapon and utility) except decoy force you to start auto attack (if aa is switched on at your skill bar). So after I switched off aa and accustomed to go defensive at low HP desperate decoy helps me much in outnumbered situations (not always ofc). Though this decision has minuses too: when you manually use 1st gs attack you should wait its’s whole duration before you start cast gs2 or gs4. Though you can stow weapon before use of these skills to stop gs1 channeling.
I have a feeling this explains a LOT of the shenanigans I’ve had going on. 16k HP hits 50% often enough that it breaking my casts and knocking be back a step probably is one of my biggest issues. Thank you!
Description of this trait is wrong now. It procs only if you have been hitted by non-lethal blow while under 25% of max HP
North camp has a good spot behind bench (bench near supply boxes, it counts as obstacle). At NE you can gather all npc by kiting behind east log piles. For NW there is a ltl tricky place at wooden pillar (usually I run/jump around it to lure veteran scouts). Sometimes I port directly spot to prevent dodge clone generation.
Interesting idea with stomping but I would still prefer shattered concentration for myself as been suggested. Tried evasive mirror too but it conflicts with my reflexes when outnumbered – dodge into stealth. If got hit by channeled attack = insta reveal. Though you have another experience probably.
As for the backstab comment, you would be surprised what stacking ontop of your clone will do, as a thief will target you in haste before his stealth runs out and if he has the clone targeted then avoided a 9k backstab which happens roughly 70% of the time.
Hmm. I usually target through “target nearest” then tabbing to real one while running to enemy for backstab. I think I never missed real mesmer. Though stacking mb good sometimes because of more shatter fodder when thief opens on you.
Btw how do you utilize furious interruption?
So you are talking about wvw (perplexity/PU)? Idk.
In pvp I don’t feel OP of mesmer. Even when playing vs CS/PU mesmers (even if I don’t use neither of those traits). Its my personal exp ofc.
I know. That’s why I said on paper. No Mesmer runs Null Field and Arcane Thievery at the same time. If they run either at all. The point is that Mesmers get a decent amount of boonrips from Shattered Concentration, GS3, Sword 1 with very little investment. Necro absolutely needs PoC and SoS to have decent rips, both being traits that require you to invest a lot more to be good than Shattered Concentration. Without these investments Necro has worse boonrip capabilities.
Sword 1? Really? GS3 with 1 boon removal?
Only Shattered Concentration is somehow relevant. Though with tendency of illusions to die very fast is more likely you would mostly 2-4 boons been removed through shatter combo. Vigor nerf hits DE fueling hard.
Necros are more reliable at boon ripping imho.
Yep, I can wait till ele right out of water and out of dodges, but they then can defense themselves with earth, kiting, evading, while water is refreshing, etc. And ofc talking about good eles. In recent duels vs not very experienced cele d/d won with score like 19/20, though it took so much time…
It just seems easy to me to work around their rotations.
Mb. Haven’t much exp as ele.
Just I have another experience vs good d/d cele eles.
If I recall correctly even at esl matches thieves and mesmers just leave enemy cele eles on a spot if 1vs1 because of it is just a waste of time. They only do +1 vs eles.
I have played mes since launch. i play it across all 3 game modes. ankitten ot wrong, i run condi shatter in spvp at least 5 days a week, and often several matches in a row. i know exactly and precisely what i can do, each and every time, consitantly. i can open with scepter 3, followed by torch 5, and usually 1 more attack, before my stealth wears off.
i use that extra sec or 2 to get behind my opponent. consitantly.
i do this every single day, sometimes multiple times per match.
if its working as intended then it needs a hard nerf. otherwise its bugged.
Very strange. Any landed attack with physical damage part (if not missed/evaded/ distorted/etc) immediately cause reveal.
Mb you just miss/ auto cansel sc3 (by changing face direction of your character – it goes ful cd, though not hitted target even once). Torch 5 doesn’t do direct physical damage, thus don’t break your stealth. Sc 1 can progress in AA chain even without target and not very fast projectile (you can keep stealth till projectile flying to target ~0.1-0.5s).
Anyway any successfully landed physical attack (sc1, sc2-2, sc3, etc) cause reaveal. You can check it easily on golems as being said.
the fuk?
Am I saying I’m good or bad vs ele? You did though. Asking u bring vids to 1) see it if wasn’t just words; 2) l2p if you do really handle them well.
If you haven’t videos and don’t wish to makethem – just say it. I can live with it.
I haven’t vids.
Thief cryed mesmer OP and has too much damage before mesmer dps was nerfed recently , now crying mesmer has too much survivability? Still not able to kill mesmers?
However, if you stow your heal you can essentially get a 2second reflection (counted before cancelling the heal). I know it shows the tooltip as saying 1 1/4 but im getting a 2second reflection anyway able to before casting the heal off.
From my exp mirror’s cast time matches to tooltip’s 1.25s You can compare to mass invis cast bar (1.75). MI takes longer time to cast then mirror. Though you are still reflecting additional 0.75 s when mirror cast is finished. Canceling mirror leads to immediately stop of reflecting feature. Usual reflect uptime with stow weapon ~0.8-1s from my exp.
DaShi.1368, don’t take to heart. MMR is just MMR. It is not an insult in this context. Probably my MMR is low (not doing pvp consistently). But even at low mmr matches, at hj, at angz I meet decent players (as I can estimate). Neither good mesmers 1shots me (reflectory use of save skill), neither me 1shots full hp good players. Not using dom line though.
MB there some need for fix/nerf. Idk. Though haven’t met those 1,5 hours with class faceroll OP mesmers. Ofc if you are spamming or channeling not covered skills, don’t pay attention to environment , not positioning and los well, etc you would have problems.
Witch of thieves’ utilities are interruptible on reaction? Caltrops? Power block was almost useless against thief, even if u was able to land interrupt. Weapon skills were totally immune to PB. Yes, u loose some initiative, but because of interrupt, not PB trait.
I would actually say most thief/mesmer duels on the same skill level were 50/50 much like a thief vs thief or mesmer v mesmer battle. Though this is 1on1s and very top tier PvP.
You are wrong.
It is well known that starting from some level of experience thief statistically beats mesmer of equal skill even 1vs1 (prepatch I mean). It’s is from my personal and mesm community experience (afaik) . If you want refer to ESL authorities – Helseth, Supercutie stated the same. E. g. Supercutie guide: http://bit.ly/SupcutieGuide , p 3.10 – Class Specific Matchups.
You forgot necros. They are at worse position at healing covering .
Hunter shot high telegraphed? Emm? It is hardly could be reflected on reaction. Anyway if troubled with reflect/dodges use it on thing that cant reflect/dodge – clones, pets, stunned, structures, builds w/o reflects etc.
Though I agree that healing interrupt should be more common thing
Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.
I mostly play zerk staff ele but I also go scepter/focus or d/d if I have to. So far, no matter the weapons, mesmers have a very easy time. I’m proud when I kill any mesmer at all or just have a very long exchange before I either die or I need to bail.
Yep, you are 1 of easiest matchups for shatter mesmer (zerker staff). Prepatch and post.
Personally I even don’t notice CS mesmers lands on me that ‘5-6 stuns chain’. Mb 1 or 2. Not more usually cause they are dead. Probably most of them are FOTM jumpers.
I don’t understand this ‘most classes’
Only class have problem with interruptible heal is necro. Though necro (with condi transfer and lf sustaun) is at good spot right now and is most dangerous class for most condi/hybrid builds. Necro still can los. It is not utulity skill though. Every other class can cover heal or have no need to cover it. As ranger u has 10-12s CD for stealth skill. Or just use healing spring (pretty good skill with leap combos).
Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class
Don’t use it right immediately after stealth if have problems with wave. Mesmer could not only gs5 you, but diversion too. You have 2-2.5s after stealth starts for reposition
WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).
Again – 3s with minor trait (+1s). As I said I always prefer to steal vs mesmer. Ecto is a best stolen item. What is wrong with getting to close range?
Steal is counterable? No cast time = no animations for react. Only if very good at predicting it.
I already admitted that after patch it is easier to kill bad thieves. But good ones are still hard for me.
You know “stability” boon (cowered with other boons or just pulsing)?
Mesmer’s instant stealth skills:
1. Decoy (can be done when stunned)
2. The prestige (can not be done when stunned, need torch)
Thieves instant stealth skill:
1. Blinding powder (can be done when stunned),
2. Hidden thief trait (can be done when stunned, need trait ofc)
Both can cast stealth skills with cast time or combos from stealth.
Mesmer bursts works at melee or almost melee range. Mesmer can initiate burst from distance. Thief can too.
Do not playing with cs right now. Have no big problems vs cs shatter neither on mesmer, nor thief. Idk, mb hadn’t meet good cs shatters. I eat most part of stealthed combo burst, but usually manage to escape and burst back.
Though cs is banned now on angz server, didn’t notice big problems with it when it was allowed (mb just coincidence).
Played pug round as a thief right now. Enemy had 2 mesmers with cs. They couldn’t burst me even together. Kept them busy and contesting point most time of the round through the kiting and los.
I m not good thief, pretty mediocre probably. But know some basics.
I almost never do detarget steal for stealth against mesmer (not hard combo though). Ecto is best stolen item (double best if traited) + boon ripping +daze/ interrupt. Steal on clone kills clone (usualy mug is traited).
You claim that Shadow Refuge is the ultimate counterable stealth ability, but whoops, you forgot that you can’t pull a thief out of stealth if you’re not an enginee
Emm?
Though it is easy to dodge gs5 or pull if have endurance
Blinding powder with minor trait 4s (decoy 6s with major trait).
Nah, just suggesting you played against bad thieves probably. Which are not using los like fanatics.
Yes it is easier to kill bad thieves now. Some of them probably rerolling to mesmer. I don’t care tbh. About good ones – not so sure. Plus condi thieves can be pretty hard to handle.
There is no class that has enough stunbreaks to keep up with our six chained stuns with CS and background mantra recharge. Moreover, stun from stealth does not even cause reveal! And apart from that, where is the question of dodging when you’re stunned?
Stunbreaks, invulns etc are precious, few, and far between. They simply don’t keep up with the frequency of damage bursts and stuns available to mesmers post-patch.
And of course, our stealth has no counter. Stealth skills are insta cast and take no set up – unlike thieves where everyone knows ways to disrupt the famous BP+HS combo. And even if they can’t, they know where the thief is for a few seconds while they stack stealth.
Where is the setup for using “The Pledge”? Or “Decoy”? You can even chain Mass invis while your other stealth is about to run out and your opponent has no way of knowing.
Counterplay. The idea is to have counterplay. Thief stealth has counterplay. Mesmer stealth does not. Thief burst also has a lot more counterplay than mesmer burst – at least you know the thief has got to be close to you to Backstab. A mesmer can burst from distance. After stunning of course.
You know “stability” boon (cowered with other boons or just pulsing)?
Mesmer’s instant stealth skills:
1. Decoy (can be done when stunned)
2. The prestige (can not be done when stunned, need torch)
Thieves instant stealth skill:
1. Blinding powder (can be done when stunned),
2. Hidden thief trait (can be done when stunned, need trait ofc)
Both can cast stealth skills with cast time or combos from stealth.
Mesmer bursts works at melee or almost melee range. Mesmer can initiate burst from distance. Thief can too.
Do not playing with cs right now. Have no big problems vs cs shatter neither on mesmer, nor thief. Idk, mb hadn’t meet good cs shatters. I eat most part of stealthed combo burst, but usually manage to escape and burst back.
Though cs is banned now on angz server, didn’t notice big problems with it when it was allowed (mb just coincidence).
Mb you are right. Just got bored by standard lockdown and want to try something new.
Have a feeling like necros can reach very good LF sustain after patch.
Playing hybrid rampager gs/sc+torch nearly 2 weeks. Blink, decoy and MoD with 2 charges (without Domination line). Most of time I spend both mantra charges for healing skill interrupt and diversion on ds4. Blind through shatter doesn’t help me much. Necros just transfers shatter condies (Deathly Swarm, Plague Signet, Putrid Mark are not affected by blind). Anyway not much skills that should/could be blinded on reaction. Biggest problem is necro LF generation for me. I can successfully interrupt him 3-4 times in a row but still not manage to dps enough to burn through LF.
I m talking about about good necros only (meet like 3-4 such necros and most of them probabably cele/condy with some vampiric traits) , wich knows how to land marks on invisible foe, manage LF, don’t panic when rooted , etc.
Yup, prepatch it was easy encounter for me. Shatter for damage, interrupt heals, some controls – done. But now feels like can’t dps fast enough to deplete both hp and lf pool. Yes, I can reflect ds 1st skill few secs, but it doesn’t changes things (not big dmg for condi necro build anyway).
And that instant Plague Signet (utility skill + trait sometimes) boon converts and condo transfer…
