I agree with the op that this is a major problem for new players. I don’t think there is an easy way to fix this problem.
Easy fix: ditch these asinine achievements. No one was really dying to have them before last tuesday, and no one will miss them.
No,game needs to feel alive exactly for new players so that they can see it.Do you have idea how many games i quit just cause i didn’t find any1 on the starting zones?First thing you get to think when there are no players in starting zones is,game is dead – uninstall.
Really? I’d think “Oh, people are probably in higher level areas. Good, that gives me space to get into this thing at my own pace.”
GW2 has placed itself outside of the theme park vs. sandbox consideration.
It’s a petting zoo now.
The concept of players going out of their way to gain rewards is not at all foreign to this game. Dungeons, world bosses, PvP, wvw, puzzles all have rewards that require players to go out of their way to gain them.
Sure, and that’s fine. The problem isn’t in what’s offered now though, but what was taken away: a trickle of free AP that required no effort other than just playing any old content. Ironically, while taking that away, they added log in rewards that require even less effort.
Plus, even in the previous daily system, it was only the pve only people who would just happen upon their dailies.
And now, that’s more or less the case for WvW people. Who’d have thought?
You know, it wasn’t too long ago that people were complaining that this game was too easy. Now you’re complaining that it’s too hard.
I’m doing no such thing. I’m complaining that the dailies have become annoying as hell and getting rewards has become even easier because of the kittened log in reward.
Actually, you were complaining that the dailies took more effort than they did before when they took no effort. That is the same as complaining about the game being too hard.
No, that’s not the same.
What is it with people not realizing that “too hard” and “more effort” are not synonynous? The concepts aren’t even related. “Too hard” refers to difficulty level. “Effort” doesn’t.
Sure, the new ones are a load off the backs of AP grinders, but they require full attention and very specific side-tracks to finish them…
What did I do today?
o Mining some ore in Frostgorge Sound and my home instance. Specific side-tracking: I had to choose Hoelbrak for my home instance instead of Divinity’s Reach, which I normally do (which in itself is weird because my main is a Norn).
o Did the bell choir as an activity. Specific side-tracking: None. I would have done that anyway -for wintersday and because I like it.
o Did the kyhlo-pvp farm with my level 10 elementalist once (about 7 minutes). Specific side-tracking: yes. I had not much time, otherwise I would have played wvw instead and automatically fulfilled an achievement or four.
Full attention? Not really. Very specific side-track? Yes, somewhat (pvp).
But I had accidentally done even more than 3 daily achievements with it (my kyhlo farm led to two achievements, sorry…). Besides the 10 AP I got also orichalcum ore and other ore from the mining (other rewards were more or less ignorable).
All in all, from my point of view it was easy as heck and the “specific side-tracking” was about the same I have to do when after an hour of normal play the 5 dailies of old weren’t completed. Because that happened, too. It is not that ALL old daily achievements were ready to be completed while playing normally (story dungeon completer, fractal completer and such spring to mind).
On a side-note: Some time later I did Claw of Jormag. Yes, because it was in the daily list. No, I did not felt side-tracked. I had already gotten my 10 AP but I thought: hm, good idea. Haven’t done it in a long time. In that case the new system worked as intended, I think.
Weird, I just did a round of Bell Choir and it didn’t count as a daily activity.
But more to the point: so one random day didn’t require a lot of inconvenient side-tracking. That’s luck, not a refutation of my complaint.
If I look at the daily 12 for myself today:
Activity: Oh, okay, let’s see what’s up this fine morning. Southsun Survival, are you kidding me? Most boring thing ever, pass. (If Bell Choir had counted for me, I wouldn’t have had to comment on this one.)
Claw of Jormag: Huh, I wont be online anymore 100 minutes from now. Pass.
Caledon Forest Events: Yeah, sure, easy. And utterly stupid and not even tangentially something I would consider doing today. After completing it 9 times, I have no desire to visit content like this on a level 80.
Shiverpeaks Miner: Quickly and easily done, but not something I would be doing today as I have no plans to play in the Shiverpeaks.
All 4 WvW: WvW isn’t interesting this time of day. I’m never much inclined to play it anyway.
All 4 PvP: Haven’t done that in ages, and there’s a reason for that. It didn’t do anything for me.
That’s 12 things I have no interest in doing. And I would like to know why Bell Choir didn’t register for me while it did for you.
The concept of players going out of their way to gain rewards is not at all foreign to this game. Dungeons, world bosses, PvP, wvw, puzzles all have rewards that require players to go out of their way to gain them.
Sure, and that’s fine. The problem isn’t in what’s offered now though, but what was taken away: a trickle of free AP that required no effort other than just playing any old content. Ironically, while taking that away, they added log in rewards that require even less effort.
Plus, even in the previous daily system, it was only the pve only people who would just happen upon their dailies.
And now, that’s more or less the case for WvW people. Who’d have thought?
You know, it wasn’t too long ago that people were complaining that this game was too easy. Now you’re complaining that it’s too hard.
I’m doing no such thing. I’m complaining that the dailies have become annoying as hell and getting rewards has become even easier because of the kittened log in reward.
(edited by Manasa Devi.7958)
The concept of players going out of their way to gain rewards is not at all foreign to this game. Dungeons, world bosses, PvP, wvw, puzzles all have rewards that require players to go out of their way to gain them.
Sure, and that’s fine. The problem isn’t in what’s offered now though, but what was taken away: a trickle of free AP that required no effort other than just playing any old content. Ironically, while taking that away, they added log in rewards that require even less effort.
Plus, even in the previous daily system, it was only the pve only people who would just happen upon their dailies.
And now, that’s more or less the case for WvW people. Who’d have thought?
I do note the complaints seem to be for the Daily Achievements so maybe the rewards aren’t part of their problem?
One issue I’ve seen pop up in this thread is the following:
People used to be able to go do whatever they wanted, and get some AP for the dailies they serendipitously finished while doing so, and they could easily finish off their dailies at the end of their playing session if they didn’t get at least 5 of them. This doesn’t work with the new ones.
Sure, the new ones are a load off the backs of AP grinders, but they require full attention and very specific side-tracks to finish them, and that’s not seen as an attractive substitute to the people who weren’t obsessing over maximizing AP gain, but just happy to see a little AP accrue from the dailies. Then there’s the fact that the PvE ones kind of make you feel like you’re a dog doing tricks for a treat.
But they didn’t make them harder. Easier even. Just more inconvenient. And if there’s 2 things I don’t want my games to be, it’s easy and filled with inconveniences.
These are the next unfortunate step in the hollowing out of the game.
They made it harder to complete the daily now that you have to specific locations and not just as you play. They made it easier and quicker to get 10 AP in one day.
You use the word ‘harder’ where I use the word ‘inconvenient’. I only use your word to describe difficulty levels, as do most people I would guess.
But they didn’t make them harder. Easier even. Just more inconvenient. And if there’s 2 things I don’t want my games to be, it’s easy and filled with inconveniences.
These are the next unfortunate step in the hollowing out of the game.
Now that Laurels are tied to simply logging in, the Daily Tasks can go back to the purpose ANet would prefer of them: getting players to explore the world, play new aspects of the game, etc, etc.
Doomed to fail. People will soon find the fastest, most convenient way to take down their 3 and just return to their prefered way of playing 5 minutes later. Not even that long if they have fast rigs. It won’t be long until these ‘achievements’ are inconveniences one suffers through for some AP. They already were that from the get-go for a great many players. What then? Another revamp?
All you get for doing all 3 is Achievement Points. And well, you should have to Achieve something to get Achievement Points. Doing the Daily without any EXTRA effort is not Achieving something.
I don’t consider the vast majority of the new ‘achievements’ something worthy of the english language meaning of that word. Or are we talking ironically?
Why are the WvW dailies not as ridiculously specific as the PvE and PvP ones?
Play WvW and you’ll see why.
I have played it in the past, and I don‘t see why. WvW dailies are more or less automatically completed by just having a bit of a go at the game mode. This used to be true for PvE, but isn‘t anymore. It‘s a baffling discrepancy. And then there’s the profession-specific ones in PvP that also restrict easy completion a lot.
It seems to me like a stealthy attempt to promote WvW.
Why are the WvW dailies not as ridiculously specific as the PvE and PvP ones?
Sorry, I guess I totally misunderstood this conversation where you state you have no interest in the activities and the rewards of the dailys and only enjoyed completing the daily efficiently.
If you think that attempting to do something as efficiently as one can is exactly the same as “check things off a generalized list”, yeah, I can see the confusion. Glad to set you straight.
f all you played for was to check things off a generalized list while doing things you particularly don’t have a interest in or enjoy…. then yah the game is ruined for you.
I didn’t, and if you read anything I actually wrote, you would realize that.
Create your own dailies then and track them on a piece of paper. If you use the dailies from before the update, it’d be as if nothing has changed for you.
Or maybe find a game that does the game design for me, so I don’t have to and can just play, hmm?
That too if you absolutely need a game to have some system to track accomplishments specifically to your style of gameplay rather than feeling accomplished for what you accomplished and enjoying any enjoyment from said accomplishments.
I don’t need any of that. The sad truth is, it has been all that’s left for a while. What I need is a game that hasn’t been hollowed out to the point that I can only enjoy it through self imposed challenges.
Once again, you can still do the activities and get the rewards the exact same way as the old dailies, which means that even if you somehow did enjoy them only as a combination of factors rather than as the individual action or reward (which, again, is completely irrational) you can still combine those factors and achieve your same level of enjoyment which makes your entire complaint INVALID.
That makes no sense at all. How can I do something that’s no longer present in the game? Make it up myself? Are you completely separated from reality? How about I don’t log in at all anymore and do it all in my head?
I’m understanding the issue quite well. People irrationally dislike change because stasis is familiar and things that are not familiar generate an irrational fear impulse (as a survival mechanic). In order to justify their irrational fear of change, people come up with ridiculous statements (such as “I enjoy only the specific combination of task and reward, and only when it is presented on the screen.”).
I enjoyed the challenge of tackling them as efficiently as I could. Your failure to appreciate the possible value of that to another person speaks volumes of you, and your armchair psychology ramblings have no bearing on me at all, they only add to those volumes. Such ugly, ugly volumes. Yuck.
Don’t worry, after a few weeks the new system will become familiar and your irrational fear will subside (at least until the next patch causes change).
There’s nothing to become familiar with. Simple, inane spelled-out tasks, hardly fitting to challenge even a 4 year old.
People are incredibly predictable, and you are no exception.
Wait, what? Oh, more patronizing drivel, how predictable.
So you are just here to complain for the sake of complaining? You were already unsatisfied with the game before the update. The only thing you said you enjoyed was the tick of the daily in the old system…. not in the game itself…
The “tick of the daily in the old system” was part of the game, was it not?
Create your own dailies then and track them on a piece of paper. If you use the dailies from before the update, it’d be as if nothing has changed for you.
Or maybe find a game that does the game design for me, so I don’t have to and can just play, hmm?
Please cease these mediocre complaints, really, dailies are stupid easy to do.
Exactly! That stupidity is unforgivable. Why would I want to play a game that presents me with such stupidity?
No one enjoyed dailies. No one.
I did. You lose.
They either enjoyed the activity involved (killing enemies, harvesting plants, etc.) which they are still free to do, or they enjoyed the reward, which is now given to them simply for logging in.
Don’t care about the reward, don’t particularly cared about the activities involved with them. I killed enough monsters in this game. I enjoyed figuring out how to do them efficiently. Well, lately the answer to that was “spend 30 minutes in Silverwastes” so the fun had begun to fade before this update.
Nothing is stopping you from doing the old daily activities and absolutely nothing at all is stopping you from getting the old daily rewards.
Lack of interest in the specific activities is stopping me.
This means that your sudden lack of enjoyment is completely irrational.
The only irrational thing on display here is your utter failure to realize that not all people are like you, and some enjoy different things than you. You’re either severely lacking in empathy, or maybe you should get out more.
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So what’s all the fuss about? Simple: something many people enjoyed was removed, and replaced with something they enjoy less. No amount of arguments or counter-arguments are going to have any bearing on that simple truth.
The game has become less enjoyable for some people, and they will post about it here. Their arguments are unassailable. They are right, because their experience is the only one that matters. Your reasons for liking this better are just as important to them as a raindrop falling in a faraway land. Maybe less so, if they enjoy rain.
I’m not being sarcastic here, this is just the essence of what happened. ANet hollowed out the game some more.
Speaking for myself, these new dailies and log on rewards have the effect of disincentivizing me from playing. I’m one of those players who just logged in for dailies, for lack of content I consider worth (re-)playing. Doing the dailies was a game in and of itself for me. I’d add the ones I’d consider doing to the watchlist, and then looked at the watchlist to find the best place I could go to, and the best thing I could be doing to finish at least 5 of them. Very often, while I was doing my dailies this way, things would happen to make me play other things. Guildies wanting to do something, running into players, being reminded of something and thinking “let’s have a go at that for old times sake.”
What no incarnation of the dailies ever did is offer me any incentive to go do something I have no interest in doing in the first place. PvP, WvW, not a snowball’s chance in hell. Tried both and decided they weren’t for me. A measly extra reward isn’t going to change my mind.
And now, these dailies… They don’t engage me at all. They’re simply terrible. Am I expected to feel the urge to play some more after spending 5 minutes on the painfully inane tasks of gathering a few nodes in one specific area and clicking on a vista I’ve already visited with most of my characters, in another specific area? The ridiculous pointlessness of the tasks combined with the lack of my own personal mini-game of figuring out how to do 5 dailies at the same time doesn’t accomplish anything other than to make me wonder what I still like about the game.
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On most days when there was a daily fractal achievement, I’d do a round of fractals. Just open the LFG and find a party at any level, didn’t care what. That was the only time I still played fractals after doing them so often I got bored with them. I did it because there was the incentive of +1 AP.
Today, I didn’t do the daily fractal achievement. There was no incentive because I already got the max AP for the day doing infantile stuff like chopping trees, clicking a vista and buying some liquid world XP that I will consume at such a time when there’s a WvW daily for leveling up world rank, if those still exists. That day I’ll have to do very little else for my dailies.
Well done, your new daily system disincentivized me from doing something I would have done under the old system.
The only reason people don’t like the new dailies is because you need to do effort on them. Previously no one really cared because dailies didn’t entail anything.
Effort? Are you kidding?
Events in Queensdale, using the mystic forge, gathering 4 plant nodes. Effort? Wow…
The problem is that they’re too specific. I’d rather have to do 10 events anywhere than 4 in kittening Queensdale. I’d rather gather 50 plants anywhere than 4 in Maguuma.
This isn’t about effort, the effort involved is ridiculously tiny, verging on the non-existant. The problem is the ridiculous specificness and inanity of the achievements. I’ve never felt as stupid for playing a game as when I was doing the entirely brainless ‘effort’ of gathering my 4 plants in Maguuma. This new thing is infantile.
Now excuse me while I go click on a vista in Ascalon.
games have us playing different characters all the time.
Interesting point. GW2 always did that. I could always log off and log in as a different character.
With this content, it doesn’t anymore. When I pick a different character, I’m still playing Caithe. What a terrible step back, reducing my stable of different characters to a single character with a single skill set and a single playing experience.
One thing I don’t understand about what I learned of Caithe’s memories. Why did she just stand around dancing for almost an hour somewhere up a cliff while centaurs were patrolling around Faolain’s trampled corpse?
The last few days I’ve seen a great many people advertizing to sell portal access to badges on the LFG tool, sometimes dozens at a time. As if the horribly bugged LFG tool isn’t useless enough as it is at the moment, even without the sales spam.
If only the events leading up to the breach were interesting. I didn’t even get through the end of the first week of the zone’s existence before getting bored with them.
I just pity those poor mordrem champions running around with half bladders. Their lives must be hell.
It does explain the Thrasher’s extreme spillage.
I feel the same as the OP. For me, GW2’s replay value is primarily found in the different playing experiences offered by different professions. There’s none of that in this release, unfortunately. I’ve played 2 characters through Seeds of Truth and my interest is already waning, whereas I stayed happily engaged playing 8 characters through most of the earlier episodes.
Having said that, it doesn’t really help that I don’t enjoy the excessive movement found on Caithe’s skillset and that I loathe the character of Caithe. (This episode only strengthened that, by the way.)
Several problems:
- Finding people who are also interested in doing the story 8 times. I don’t know any.
- Finding a subset among those people who want to do it as Caithe so I don’t have to. Won’t be easy I bet.
- Getting over my aversion of standing around doing nothing while people click through dialogue options when I’m not the instance owner.
Designing content with terrible replay value defeats the purpose of making these instances repeatable to begin with.
It’s story, the story is key here, not the gameplay. The replay value of story is as good as it gets for reading a book three four or in your case 7 times. I mean, you say it as if you want the story to fully encorporate “replay value” and not let story run it’s natural course just because it might be the same story over for 7 times? Might as well make fully random story every time you go through it because that would make perfect sense using that argument.
I couldn’t give half a wag of a dead dogs tail about the story. I can’t stomach Destiny’s Edge, suffering through their infantile bickering and horribly clichéd reconciliation while doing the story mode dungeons has put me off those characters forever.
I’m in it for the gameplay. GW2 is a game, its first consideration should be the quality of its gameplay. And especially when going for replay value, story is a secondary consideration. Why do you think people complain about having to sit through dialogue again and again when going for the achievements in these LS instances? Once you know the story, there’s no value to that at all anymore for repeated playthroughs.
- Finding people who are also interested in doing the story 8 times. I don’t know any.
- Finding a subset among those people who want to do it as Caithe so I don’t have to. Won’t be easy I bet.
While I prefer to play the story instances with my own group of friends, this isn’t always possible, so I resort to LFG sometimes. I have had absolutely NO problems at all finding groups to run story or achievements with. I haven’t even had to create the LFG listings myself as in most cases I just joined existing ones. So, I think you “bet” wrong, and you should give it a chance and actually try it before making a judgement there.
- Getting over my aversion of standing around doing nothing while people click through dialogue options when I’m not the instance owner.
I can’t help you with that.
Talk to me 3-9 months from now, that’s when I’ll want to do those instances on other characters.
I cringe at the idea of doing this 7 more times, whereas I enjoyed playing previous story instances with different professions.
Can always play with a friend…
Several problems:
- Finding people who are also interested in doing the story 8 times. I don’t know any.
- Finding a subset among those people who want to do it as Caithe so I don’t have to. Won’t be easy I bet.
- Getting over my aversion of standing around doing nothing while people click through dialogue options when I’m not the instance owner.
Designing content with terrible replay value defeats the purpose of making these instances repeatable to begin with.
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This kills the replay value for me.
I have brought 8 characters most of the way through season 2 (some are 1 or 2 chapters behind). Now, I’m looking forward to all of them being reduced to the same character with the same skills that’ll give me the exact same playing experience.
I cringe at the idea of doing this 7 more times, whereas I enjoyed playing previous story instances with different professions.
And to be honest, I didn’t even like playing with Caithe’s skills the first time.
Crash to desktop upon entering the area, as soon as the loading screen changes back to game view.
Our guild has the same problem.
I don’t think this boss is a step forward in boss design at all. It just rattles off predetermined moves and most of its attacks don’t even target the player, they just blanket the area. As such, it’s hardly even interactive. Just learn its moves and kill it. I prefer my fights to feature opponents that interact with the player.
Yep, I’m in the same boat. I have crests coming out of my ears, but I just know that as soon as I spend them on glove boxes, they’ll start dropping for me. I can’t seem to get lucky with fang extraction either, so I’m in no hurry yet to get the other two gloves anyway.
I’d spend the Crests. While the Glove chests CAN drop from Lost Bandit Chests and the Greater Nightmare Pod, the drop rate is low enough that it feels as rare as getting an Exotic drop. If more Glove chests drop for you, you can always salvage them for Ectos.
I bought one Glove chest over the weekend. That brings me to 2/3. I should have the third by the end of this week by doing PvP.
Better to save them if you’re in no rush. You wouldn’t want to spend the crests on the gloves and then get a chest while farming for more. We have four armor pieces being introduced to us over the next two updates. You can be certain that it’ll require much more farming.
I did actually get a glove box just now. Yay! Saved 1,000 crests!
So what’s the OP saying? A labyrinth/maze is no longer a labyrinth/maze if there is a map of it in existence that one can freely chose whether or not to look at? Or am I missing something? Because if that’s the message, it’s nonsense.
Yep, I’m in the same boat. I have crests coming out of my ears, but I just know that as soon as I spend them on glove boxes, they’ll start dropping for me. I can’t seem to get lucky with fang extraction either, so I’m in no hurry yet to get the other two gloves anyway.
I’ll quote myself, a post I made in that error 7-11-3-191-101 thread:
I just had another typical 7:11:3:191:101 error.
Guild functionality working? Check!
Can I still join parties? Check!
Can I still use the tradepost? Check!
Can I still receive and participate in all chat channels? Check!
Is my location in the guild roster shown as “Unknown”? Check!
Does the actual game no longer respond? Check!
Will I spend a good few minutes under these circumstances before the game kicks me? Check!
Is this in any way similar to what you’re experiencing?
I hear the hamsters that go in the wheels will be available in the gem shop soon.
I have only one bone to pick with the labyrinth: it’s boring as hell. Even slightly more boring than what happens in the rest of the zone when there’s no breach event in progress. Who’d have thought the war against an elder dragon could be so boring. Yawn.
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I spent a minute or 2 there, used the key I got from succeeding at the breach event at the chest in the center, got the achievement and some forgettable loot. Won’t be back.
The main benefit of having multiple characters is that you can play with multiple characters. There are side benefits, like cashing in on things that are time-gated per character instead of per account.
I thought it was boring. Running around doing all kinds of convoluted things to make a bar in the GUI go from full to empty while a lumbering mess of polygons is trying ineffectually to get in my way now and again, that doesn’t feel like a boss fight to me. On the bright side, it didn’t take long.
I just had another typical 7:11:3:191:101 error.
Guild functionality working? Check!
Can I still join parties? Check!
Can I still use the tradepost? Check!
Can I still receive and participate in all chat channels? Check!
Is my location in the guild roster shown as “Unknown”? Check!
Does the actual game no longer respond? Check!
Will I spend a good few minutes under these circumstances before the game kicks me? Check!
They are boring. They’re all full of the stuff that I got with the previous chest and I’ll just put that stuff with the previous stuff in my storage. Slowly growing stacks of stuff I never use. I’m closing in on 25 boxes o’fun.
Well, since this is apparently a joke thread, let me be the first to answer with the ever-popular and mandatory “new players” one-liner.
“Patches happening at early hours are too complicated to deal with for new players, so they patch closer to the evening.”