Guild Wars 2

Dont talk about pve balance till they add some sort of AI in the game plz …….
You cant balance something not finished XD

When half of them are plain useless yes, when there is counterplay due to the CD i suggest, and when attunement CD still works, yes
Kit provide one bar but full of usefull skills, without drawback.

Am i the only one laughting when someone use as argument “ele has too many weapon skill” ?
Dude we sure have the most, and we also have a lot of useless ones, and ridiculous cooldown.
Clearly, Merging conjure weapon into one utility “conjurer mode”, andsacrifying one utility slot for having acces, to a sort of, weapon swap isnt OP.
To be sure it’s not OP, make the “conjurer mode” last 15sec and the ability to leave conjurer mode only popping at the last 5sec.
Understand: When you attune to conjurer mode, the “drop button” start on a 10cd"
This way, there is a trade off for entering conjurer mode, locking you out of your regular weapon skills.
It balances conjurer with kit. Kit are stronger mechanicaly, but provide less skills.

• ignoring this kitten discution started by someone not playing the class *

When i first read this change, i didnt understand why.
Then came the engi part’s patch
And everything become clear

Adrenal Implant: Endurance regeneration is increased by 50%.

This trait has been useless since release since endurance regen cap is +100%
Now you can add this now-OP trait with vigor to get to the cap.

How this worked at Anet

“-GUYS!! Engi have one useless trait! It’s a cataclysm!!! we need to power creep the class to the 8th heaven!!!
- Make it synergyze with by nerfing vigor!
-Genius!!
- but … wait, that would nerf ele ….
- 2bird one shot! gg team
"
as i say about Anet way to release balance patch:

This ain’t a good patch if it doesn’t nerf ele

When YOU apply an aura to YOUSELF

Stop dreaming bro ^^

https://imgflip.com/i/n2duo

D/D as viable in PVE than before

Top in pvp (DF is taken into consideration right now and might surpass it)

In WVW, viable only in roaming … and can be used in FP but less efficient thant thief and mesmer in this sniping role.

Especially with the condi spamm powercreep made to engi. If you ever 1V1 this in roaming, you’re dead

In zerg, DD ele (and ele in general) is not viable in MT since rock solid over-nerf. It already was not popular due to the ridiculous radius, but without stability, ele provide NOTHING over a guard (stab) and a warrior (dispell) (both provide more obviously, but if it has to be summed up, that’s it ^^).

By the way, warrior got buffed @DanAlcedo

Power build runs with lower armor and health than condi, you can’t possibly says that condi require more skill to be played. The place for error is way bigger.
Just look how many kitten -condi build you see in roaming and how many power build.

Blob is another issue. The dispell spamm is stronger than the condi spamm. It can’t be solved since you take MT with pure AOE cleanse and that one cleanse remove all the stacks. Game design make dispell stronger than condi in large scale. That’s all. That might be poor, but that’s how it is.

nacario.9417:

@Mattmatt.4962 I wonder what makes you think GS has “insane mobility”.

Swoop: 1K1 gap closer, 12sec cd, even warrior’s rush is weaker (and since the end is litteraly a “leap” its faster than a rush)

Sword have a bit less range but greater evade frame (cause yes, swoop even include an evade frame

“GS switch”. Well, it’s not like there’s no disadvantage to the ranger doing this. First off, suddenly he loses his ranged advantage. Second, it is powered by the most utterly telegraphed move in the entire game.

Disavantage of going melee when your opponent finnaly closed gap after you bumped him with your lb forcing him to dodge and/or use all his gap closer ? GS is very strong contrary to what you seems to say. Maul might have a great activation (dont complain about it unless you want to become the ennemy of warrior) but you need dodge to be able to dodge it, remember that you had to use some to close the gap with the ranger. Or you can also use your daze to prevent ennemi to block or blindyou and land it ? :x

About the range, i’m not complaining about the high use, every class can (even tho only the ranger has such a ridiculous AA dps at 1K2+ range). I’m complaining about the bug with the travel time of arrow. Try to AA in a perfectly plane area, you’ll see you can hit further than the tooltip. You totally skiped that part, no worry accidently forgetting argument that you can’t contest is normal in an argument ^^

EDIT:
forgot this:

Point is I can mash buttons, and kill people, and it’s really just as mindless.

Every class have to some extend “masshing button”, but ranger do not need, it just have to target and press 2, the AA will do the rest
Kappa

I remember ragin a lot about this change cause kitten -condi build rules in roaming wvw ^^
It’s kinda old tho, so i assume it would be easier to test it out instead of looking for the patch post

OMG do you even read me ??? Do you just R E A D ?

where did i waste my attunement cd ? quote me and show me where plz
You can’t cause i said that if you need to use your water skill (only attunement that must be “sacrified” for a full use of fresh air and a full fire blast combo) you can CHOOSE to use them. The cost is either one less use of fresh air (water into earth without passing by air), either one less fire field blast (saving a dodge roll is nice, especially with the vigor nerf)

sirrrock.7940:

if you go into earth and get the 20% damage reduction trait in melee

It’s 10% now

If i’m not mistaken, didnt they changed condi damage so that if you land a damaging condi that last lets say 3sec1/4, it would tick 4times but the 4th tick would be weaker ? ^^

I dont 100% agree about trait, i think we can create decent build with only water OR arcane. I’m not entirely satisfied with trait change, but it a step in the right direction.

On the otherhand, i totally support you for the remaining. ele need a lot of rework to its skill (weapon, utilities and elite)

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Mattmatt.4962:

PS: we will have to start use “00111” instead of “00666” … i just got used to 6 over 30 :’(

Or use EWA
F: fire
R: air
E: earth
W: water
A: arcane

Might work for ele, but for other class ? Does the first letter never collide with another ? Plus it would mean we have to learn the name of other class’s name … meh :o

OFC it does, i’m just explaining why it isnt as strong as it seems: because it doesnt negate it for other attunement. And explaining it would be certainly op if it was negating it (for other attunement).

If Ele got buffed, its probably the class that got buffed the less.

As i said in another topic, trait change are fine (not perfect to me), but we need a rework to a lot of skill (weapon, utilities and elite) for the ele to be in a nice spot

It seems we’re still pretty much pigeon holded into arcana water, but the 3other spec are kinda viable. But I think build with only one of those currently mandatory lines can become possible.
That less us with only Fire Air Earth remaining, and i heard some player want to use it.
I think we might see more different build than the current 00266, even if it ends in xxx66, that’s better than nothing

PS: we will have to start use “00111” instead of “00666” … i just got used to 6 over 30 :’(

If fresh air were to be; in addition, negating cd the 1,5sec cd on swap, you could use every single needed cd + chain combo blast + sit in air for like 3-5sec while other attunement are recharging … are you sure you’re an “ele for a kitten long time” ? That’s freaking OP, lightning whip is the best AA. In the current set up, you HAVE TO sit a bit in some attunement, using sometimes weak AA. Fresh air enables you to CHOOSE! between, using standard roation with higher dps (only lightning whip as AA and lightning strike), or using a standard rotation and use needed water skill (2, 5 and EvaA).
Choice = less predictable = good for DD ele.
Its good for scepter too, cause it will never be locked with stupid AAs due to the old 5sec icd

CETheLucid.3964:

Raif.9507:

Uhh… they did remove ele from the meta at that time.

I’ll have to take your word for it then?

Raif.9507:

This isn’t one of the best buffs ele has gotten.

We disagree.

So according to you, the best buff ele received were a deserved nerf to the thief and a stat enhancement for a certain stuff (that everyone can enjoy). Definitely “ele” buff Kappa
If you buff/nerf ele by in fact not touching ele, that’s maybe the proof that ele is badly designed

It’s definitely stronger than before, but not that much due to the CD on other attunement when attuning to air. That’s what prevent you of a perfect roation Fire Air Water Air Earth Air with the might stack combo and possibility to use Water EA. It would be a bit OP i think if we could do that, aka if Fresh air negated the 1,5 cd on every attunement when swapping

I’m not using soothing disruption. I feel like having to use my defense cd (cantrip) for cleansing while i can cleanse with my water attunement is silly. And now that attunement’s cd is 8,5 (assumling AR, but that’s not a kittenumption ^^) it’s way better than soothing disrution when talking about dispell

Hate the ninja edit ^^

As i said, there is counter play to stone heart. And its pretty easy by the way: just wait for the ele to leave earth. Unless you’re running condi scepter, earth AA sucks pretty well ^^

You said if yourself: “IF you get busted”. Mesmer shouldnt be able to burst you if you play well. For theThief, if you manage swap to earth before he backstab you from stealth, gg

You also said it: its a matter of taste, i won’t be running it, you will, fine.
But i’m using both math and “in reality” fact, while you’re permanantly assuming that you’ll be in earth while beeing bursted. That’s just what i want to point out

Trait change are “fine” i guess.

On my mind, they should swap Aquatic Benevolence with Soothing Power, nerf soothing power to +100%, add to aquatic benevolance +100% to soothing mist.
A bit silly since now taking adept minor means taking master and gm (but we still see this kind of thing for every class so not really an issue). But at least it solves the issue of ele beeing forced to kitteneless trait when running low healing power.

For air, Bolt to the heart beeing a mere copy of executionner is meh

For fire, i dont like the fact that auto cleansing fire compete with burning precision, it remove all form of defense in fire since you need burning precision to synergyze with Blinding ashe, who need by the way to be ICD per target (and maybe nerf the ICD if it become per target)

What really sucks is the total lack of rework to weapon and utility skills
scepter’s AA
RTL
Staff in general
Elite
etc.

If you’re teaming up with a shoutbow, you might consider giving up cleansing water since the warrior could make up for the little loss of cleanse.

Both those class have more than decent damage, and if you mix their support, its pretty insane. I think this duo can face tank 2V3 maybe 2V4 at mid point while maybe beeing able to get a kill (or at least a down)

But that’s 4K over … nothing
For 1sec cast time, its worth

DD:
Pop fire ring while switching to air
proc lighting strike, use lighting whip
Switch to water during the 2nd lightning whip (let’s say we’re currently at 2 sec on fire field duration (1,5sec from lightning whip + human’s slow)
Frozen burst for blast finisher.
Assuming we got a crit out of frozen burst or lightning whip,
Switch to air, once again 2lightning whip (or one if you plan to blast the field with EA) (we’re at 4sec)
switch to earth during the operation (AA or dodge)
I think you have enough time to pull out one more blast like 4 or 5.

Need to be tested out tho
If you can perform a perfect rotation while procing 3lightning strike, its pretty good (3 cause after earth you go to air and enjoy beeing able to use lightning whip instead of any other crappy AA ^^)

You wont be able to use Fresh air if you need to use Water EA for cleanse/heal cause the fire field wont last enough for the earth blast.
Promote choice in gameplay #skill

Jekkt.6045:

the 4k heal of the signet won’t keep you alive if you get bursted so i would take stone heart over written in stone very time.

That’s why SoR is the most used healing skill in DD PVP: it can’t save you from burst. Kappa

ArchonWing.9480:

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t know. Try standing in a meteor storm and lava font as full glass and see what happens. It’s technically 1200 range but the radius increases the reach.

You can walk out of a meteor shower or lava font (not to mention meteor shower has an insane cast time). Landing combos with a staff ele is 10 times harder than clicking on a target and pressing a button. Eles also don’t have a 2000 range 6-second reveal which essentially shuts down one of thieves’ only modes of escape/survival (stealth).

Oh, you mean those aren’t instant killers if you avoid them? Because anything can kill if you make no effort to evade them.

You can walk out of ele’s aoe and you’ll end up with way more health than if you got AA-ed by a ranger. Wasting dodge for AA …. AUTO ATTACK … skill 1 is just plain kittened (same goes for power necro in shroud of lich but that’s out topic)

AA shouldnt kill you in 2sec. AA should pressure to neglect sustain like regeneration or passiv heals

ArchonWing.9480:

MethaneGas.8357:

ArchonWing.9480:

If you get killed by a single player when you’re a thief in the open, it is always your fault unless they are hacking.

The only problem is that WvW is not 1v1. You will be roaming / fighting and sure, you can handle certain situations but when a ranger (like in the video) comes along, click on you from miles away, pushes a button and you die… it surely is thrilling that you got so out-skilled.

I find the “miles away” thing to be incredibly disingenuous. They have which is 300 more than the projectiles of most classes. And if you are distracted, a lot of classes can guarantee you die.

No it’s not 300. Ranger can perform 2K range (for instanc elook at the video linked. All spell are touching the thief while beeing supposedly out of range (red line under the skills)
Why ? Cause projectile doesnt have a travel distance survivability, but a travel TIME survivability. When Anet buffed velocity, they didnt nerfed time survivability accordilingly. Making projectile going further than described in the tooltip. Add to this the fact that you can be higher than your target, you reach the 2K range AA 4K damage ….
Dare tell me there is counter play to this. Gap closer ? Get bumped. dodge roll ? Get killed by the GS switch.

The fact that almost all sort 1V2 are winnable if you’re quite skilled EXEPT ones including one or 2 ranger tells a lot.
I won a 1V2 including a ranger ONCE! Because he was with the worst thief ever (i was focusing the ranger, the thief managed to die to my PBAOE that were aimed to the ranger…. )

ArchonWing.9480:

If 3 people are distracted on one guy, I can hit something like lich form and faceroll them all. Nobody outskilled anyone; it’s just how the game works.

So that your basic AA hit as hard than an ult AA is balanced according to you ? …. no comment

ArchonWing.9480:

And again, it’s just silly to use someone on a wall as an example of any form of balance. You usually aren’t winning a fight vs someone on top of a wall unless you pull them down. It means very little when you take in account game design.

“on a wall” is just an exemple, its very common to be fighting while roaming, then suddenly a wild ranger appears (cause of insane mobility on GS or Sword) and destroy you from 2K range.
You can see a blob running at you due to the “mass” effect, but a mere loner in a 360° radius …….

With the guardian getting reinforced F2, and warshout getting buffed, i dont think you’ll see a meta damage switch in wvw

Signet of restoration often competed with Ether renewal.

While ether renewal is getting nerfed (CD increase AND Cantrip trait competing with cleansing wave) SoR is getting a buff with written in stone. I mean, you get CDR in addition to the maintain of the passiv.
Stone earth force you into earth, do you really want to camp earth ? ruin your rotation ? Beeing outplayed by a thief that just have to wait for you to leave earth ?
Or have a better sustain and keep outplaying the burst build by actively mitigating them.
I dont even mention how strong air and earth signet are. Yes 3sec root on 20sec cd is nice especially when it gives you 180 permanant bonus armor

That’s why i added a translation bro ^^

00666 written in stone

Signet of restoration, earth and air, flash
(fire instead of flash if you want somesort of condi build and no mobility / no combo like Churning flash)

Thanks me latter. Signet build far from dead. I tend to say its the new meta tank cele ele

.

Fire aura is garbage till they fix the condi reduction. So fire embrace was obviously garbage+ you get one free fire aura from attuning to fire which is way stronger than fire embrace. I see potential in 60066 auramancer support ele (might lack some dispell, but couple it with a shoutbow #gg)

Ele got nerfed cause it didnt get upped.
I agree with you, nothing changed for ele, while other class got power creeped to heaven.
Not even to mention nerf to vigor which is one more indirect nerf to ele cause its the class with the highest uptime and who needs it the most

Ride the Lightning: Movement speed adjustments no longer affect the intended travel distance.

Translation:
Go kitten yourself, we wont revert the unjustified nerf, that would be balancing ele

Sadrien.3470:

Timelord.8190:

D/D ele is now garbage, i hardly even play it anymore in WvW and i hardly see anyone else play it. So many undeserved nerfs.

LoL anyone who plays dd ele in apvp will tell you the exact opposite. Almost every team runs a dd ele because they are so strong.

He’s talking about WVW!!!
DD was very strong in MT, now unviable due to rock solid nerf. It’s nice in FP, but far weaker than mesmer and thief so why would you take a less efficient class ? Melee in BL is obviously not possible.
So yes, DD is just non existant in large scale figths

Yes it is, it has no damage, lock you out of you weapon skill for ??? Mobility … GG

No SAB anymore, but i’m still stacking 6stack of baubles, and assume its rather low stacking compared to some player

And they have to make SAB back one day … and probably make it permanant.

rotten.9753:

Laraley.7695:

It’s not like anyone will bother to even spawn fgs now.

And the “buff” to fiery rush was that it ignores moving impairing conditions. Huehue. Fgs will not even be a mobility gimmick after this change. Good job there.

Dont forget that you also loose benefit of swiftness on fiery rush …. benefit that was needed for it to really bring you far away

They said they wanted to nerf FGS mobility niche, seems they managed. GG Anet, now we have 3elite with not a single use

Jski.6180:

Look you can do a side by side compilation to all the skill in the game and you will find some are stronger then others BUT a skill compared alone dose not give you the full ideal of what going on. The ele class has a lot of movement even with out the skill RtL it also plays very different then the war class.

Where are those skills you’re talking about ? Burning speed ? Plz, the range is so short it cannot be considered as a real moovement skill.
Flash ? Blink and Shadow step are better (ignoring the fact that flash does damage) (for the first one, shorter cooldown and soon longer range, for the second, slightly longer cd but longer range and is double)

Nerfing them if they’re used to run away is ok, nerfing them if its blocked evaded blinded isn’t. Fix RTL and nerf rush and other kitten

Can you see the difference when you’re wearing the helmet ?

http://anniversaire-magique.com/files/2013/04/Dumbo-hq.png

Fuzzion.2504:

Mattmatt.4962:

snip

I spoke to a dev about this. He said that their focus is to shift away from spike damage and have longer lasting fights.

Wait whaaaaaaat ? XD
They power creep mesmer and thief burst to gokitten heaven but their purpose is to make longer fight ? …..
My day is starting rather nicely ^^

The best assumption we can make:

Trait currently give 1400 stat points

We know all start are getting upped by 50 (since healing power, férocity and condi are 0base, i assume they’re not considered)

1400- 50×4 (power,preci,vita, thoug)
=
1200
meaning equipement should get 1200 stat worth
on a full celstial build, that would imply
That would mean 200 per stat.
So you get 250 vitality instead of 300.

If you go for a non celestial stuff with hp, you’ll get kinda a lot of HP, if you go for full zerk, you’re screwed x)

i really dont see why you’re all so salty. Balance is about drawback for having something strong. We have a draw back, i’m still looking for the something strong.
(note: this “something strong” must have conterplay obviously … or active skillfull play)

Since we dont have mechanics to compensate for the drawback of low armor/hp, i assume trait are the thing i’m looking for.
In its current state, BTTH is stronger than is brother “+20% when below 50%HP” cause even if the health treshold is a bit lower, it’s adept and not a GM. Making it , imo, stronger.

Why are we the only remaining class with a trait granting perma vigor ? Why EleA despite beeing GM worthy was adept, is now master and will be minor ?
Those example are clearly above the average trait from other class. And that’s a way to balance Ele.

Sure i’d rather have an active mechanic not tied to trait, and have weaker trait (to be on par with other class), but till we don’t, our trait have to be “OP”

Am i the only one thinking that having ele’s trait “equal to other class trait” isnt fair ? I mean, ele’s trait should be stornger to make up for low hp/armor

Rework diamond skin:
Aura grant condi immu (forgot the name x) ) for the duration

Stone earth need a rework too, but i couldnt come up with something good.
My proposed change to Lingering element (reminder: make only the LAST attunement linger but until it get overwritten) would make it too strong in my mind.

Buff rock solid. It was a decent trait till stability got hammer nerfed.
Make it 3stack or a stability pulse for 3-5sec when attuning to earth (kinda OP i think), can’t come up with something balanced here

Dadnir.5038:

Mattmatt.4962:

1K healing on 2sec cd is no heal ???

You forgot : 1k healing every 2sec, yes but with max healing power! since someone pointed that a 1200 healing power was needed for the trait to have the strenght shown.
I feel it a bit frightening but that’s my point of view.

I havent watch the stream, did the rev shown was in something like full cleric ?
The trait increasing outgoing heal do not affect what show the tooltip so it doesnt matter the trait.

Nope, automatic upgrad doesnt solve the gold issue. Free upgrade solve it, dont mess up everything

No one here complained about gold free upgrad, a lot did about automatic upgrad

1K healing on 2sec cd is no heal ???

Its a bit weaker than traditionnal heal, but beeing AOE, its supper strong (and let’s not forget you get another one with your 2nd legend)

And with such a low cd, runes that trigger on heall are kinda strong: dwayna for instance

I’m way more concerned about all the crappy trait the spec get. The Ele community is complaining about aquatic benevolence beeing minor, and they give it to rev with half the major beeing of the same stupid kind. Hopefuly there is 3strong trait and there each in a different tier (if it has been the ele, they all would have been GM XD ), the issue with only one good choice in every tier is that there is no choice ^^’