Another thing that really needs to be addressed is give us a proper unavoidable stomp, DS stomp, worm stomp, plague form stomp are all basicaly exploits.
Thief is the apex predator against these classes. Is that a bad thing? Well, no, because you can always bring your own thief to counter the enemies thief. But if the enemies thief is better than yours…then GG.
Well it makes the meta stale and limits the pool of builds that can be played. Its one of the main reasons for the hybrid/bunker meta we have now.
Imo the general thief whine comes from some gimmicky WvW specs that are very good at 1v1 but cant do anything else. The second reason is that it feels really frustraiting if you cant hit someone cause he stealthes or dodges constantly. Thats why you dont see so many whine threads about 1v1 specs of other classes like mesmer, necro or engi. You can at least hit them constantly, if it actually helps you win the fight doesnt matter because they dont feel so helpless if they can at least fight back.
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I find that Necromancer is one of those professions that was designed more with PvP in mind. I’m sure all of the professions were made to have viability in both PvE and PvP, but I feel like certain ones were made to be stronger in one or the other. The changes don’t sound that exciting as of yet, but as someone who spends most of their time in WvW, I like what I’m seeing thus far.
It’s unfortunate we’re so horrible in PvE but I’m thankful that we’re at least very devastating in WvW/PvP. And if the changes are anything like I imagine, we’re only going to get meaner. So while I’m not exactly thrilled it appears we still won’t be very viable in dungeons, I am still happy we could potentially become even stronger in WvW/PvP.
Necromancer is not strong in PvP, how many necros do you see in good teams? Necros lack support, can easily be focused and killed because of the lack of defensive skills. Even the defs openly said in that post that necros lack defense. Class has no real burst compared to other professions so zerker is underperforming. Pointcapping isnt that great because our only way to push people out can be cleansed. Tanking? Engineers, Guardians and Warriors can do it better.
The only place that necromancer have in a player versus player enviroment is mindlessly spam marks and wells into an enemy zerg in WvW and roaming as terrormancer.
So they’re giving more survivability… to a class which didn’t need any more survivability in PvE…
I understand this might be cool for PvP, but it really sounds like they are ignoring all the problems in PvE. Cleave on Dagger autoattack wont do anything, Necros need some form of team support to justify their existence in dungeons.
you can think whatever you want, but you have no idea how much of a pingpong ball you are until you go into wvw or pvp. i’d like to think that is why they’re giving necromancers more survivability. though i’m expecting next to nothing being changed, to be honest. there are specific things we need(mobility) without it, we don’t see an increase in survivability. maybe they’ll surprise me, but they probably won’t.
/cynicism.
Allow healing in death shroud and make the healing/siphon skills usefull. Might be a balance nightmare cause you could create immortal necros that fill one lifebar while exhausting the other one endlesly but right now a whole traitline is useless.
they really need to bring the other trait lines up to par. air is pretty cool on high damage builds, fire is hit or miss, and earth is… well, there’s that stability thing and diamond skin, i guess.
Well the stability trait is counterproductive, it forces you to sit in earth atunement all the time to really benefit from it. Sometimes I dont get what the design decission behind some traits is.
the stability trait only triggers when you attune to earth, not while attuned to it.
Oh i mixed it up with stone heart, which has that problem.
Yes burst is way to high in WvW but the really dangerous specs are those that stack alot of defense and use stacks/guard stacks/might to still get insane damage potential.
honest to goodness, roll a thief and try playing it without using the mobility skills.
tell me how long you last.
all you really need is p/p
Omg P/P haha, you can walk right up to almost any P/P thief and punch his face in. Do you see any P/P thief in PvP or WvW?
I played alot of other mmorpg’s too and their are always some classes that can solo group content. Hell I made my gold in a particular bliz game by soloing 5mans with my mage. I personaly dont have a problem with it, as long as it only happens in PvE I dont care if some professions have an easy time compared to others. Especially if you only need to damage tag enemies in GW2 to get your share of loot.
they really need to bring the other trait lines up to par. air is pretty cool on high damage builds, fire is hit or miss, and earth is… well, there’s that stability thing and diamond skin, i guess.
Well the stability trait is counterproductive, it forces you to sit in earth atunement all the time to really benefit from it. Sometimes I dont get what the design decission behind some traits is.
but it goes back to, “its not one thing”. Its the functionality of our class. With traits, utilities, and weapon skills, they simply don’t match. The class in general needs a rework. Not an overhaul, but definitely some more care and thought.
You could actually say that about any class exept the top dogs, like mesmers and necros are in the same boat just UP right now. Eles got buffed and bam supertanky healingmachines that deal massive damage. Only warriors and guardians seem to be always in a good spot (you can argue about warriors but I guess you know what I mean).
I hope you are going to promote REAL trait diversity for Elementalists in this balance update.
You make it sound like all other profession have diverse options for PvP
fight AI with AI. If they’re gonna make u deal with minions, then instantly drop 2 phantasms on the necro while ur kiting their minions. lmao
The thing is necro pets work without line of sight.
The problem is us thieves are too good. We have been nerfed to the underworld, yet we still manage to win fights. That my friends is showing the mistaken Dev team that we need to be more equalized in their eyes, because they simply dont know like we do.
Solution: start losing. Then buffs will come.
apologies for the rant. At work using the phone. +1 for slacking off.
The problem is that the thief class pushes all other zerker spec out of the meta. Best mobility, best survivabilty and easy to apply burst. Either buff the zerker specs of other classes so they are equaly good or nerf one of those three things. I dont see any chance for a buff bevor one of those two things happen.
Look the problem is that nobody would play EoTM if you remove the rewards and/or make it supereasy to def. I almost exclusivly play WvW nowadays and even I only go to EoTM for the rewards. I use it to level alts or get badges/karma. Seriouly they should call it badgetrain not karmatrain, the amount of badges you get in EoTM for killing guards is insane.
EOTM would be empty in days if you implement that
Necro needs as much def as a guardian, warrior or thief if you spec for melee. Something you are basicaly forced too if you use a power build.
So after some tweaking I run this:
Its really good in small scale too people usually focus you as necro and its really hard to kill you with this build.
any more ideas? powermancer sounds good, though i have no idea what weapons, traits, skills to use.
powermancer sounds like a cheesy 80’ies metal band ^^
Anyone else hopes for a sigil of air/fire nerf in the next patch? It gives burst to specs that shouldnt have burst. Make the cooldown longer, let them share the cooldown or make it so it deals a fixed amount of damage.
Thief is not OP, but the profession was poorly designed.
Mesmer is completly bugged and only really works in 1vX in open fields.
Necro has a completly useless trait line and the advertised attrition based combat doesnt exist.
Ranger pets just dont work.
Looks like a pattern.
Sorry on the phone so I cant make a build but google terrormancer for small scale roaming and WvW powermancer for larger scale stuff.
Mesmer, Thief and Necro will never be balanced their class mechanics and skill set make them either OP or useless.
depends on the engi. turret engi can be dealt with if you have enough cleave, and most engi specs are pretty bad at cleansing condis, so when i play P/D they go down fairly easy.
Dont you love that type of people that flock to “help I need advice against X” threads to show everyone how “good” they are, of course he has no problems beating engineers, even if its one of the hardest classes to beat as thief, just 2pro4u.
god forbid someone give advice to a person asking for advice.
You gave zero advice, you just stated how you personaly have no problem with engineers. The two statements you gave are also pretty questionable. As stated by others a turret eni is one of the worst specs you can encounter as thief and condi bunker engi, like for example sf eles, is one of those few specs that has actually an easy time with P/D condi thieves. He outbleeds you at better range and you cant get a single cloak and dagger of if the engineer knows what he is doing.
depends on the engi. turret engi can be dealt with if you have enough cleave, and most engi specs are pretty bad at cleansing condis, so when i play P/D they go down fairly easy.
Dont you love that type of people that flock to “help I need advice against X” threads to show everyone how “good” they are, of course he has no problems beating engineers, even if its one of the hardest classes to beat as thief, just 2pro4u.
The point here is that guild wars 2 art work for the pets looks nothing like the real creatures themselves.
Can you give us a link?
You need 100% fear duration to get a second tick fear damage
That’s not true. Fear follows the same mechanic as all other conditions, even a 1.1 sec fear can give you 2 ticks.
This is true.
For those that dont know the mechanic works the following way:
The timer for the damage conditions starts with the frist damage condition applied. All the other dmage condition will then use the same timer and they all will tick at the same time.For example:
You apply a 6 second bleed on your enemy. Then at the 1.6 second mark of the bleed you apply a 1.5 second fear with terror. Then the terror will proc at the 2 second and the 3 second mark. So you get 2 ticks even if you only had 1.5 seconds of fear.But generally timing it is rather difficult (but not impossible) and if you dont time it it will normally average out as a probability with 50% (for a 1.5 second fear) for a second tick.
Wow thx!! Means I dont have to make or buy those stupid toxic tuning crystals anymore for my roaming terrormancer build
8) Use the shortbow for immobilizes, cluster bomb spikes to turrets, and to apply poison. It’s easy to apply pressure w auto attacks and CB’s from range while making it easier to dodge grenades.
Uh from a engi perspective here, staying at range with shortbow is a free invitation to bleed/weakness stack the thief at 1200 range. Never do this you will not win a range fight against a condi engi with elixir gun which almost any condi engi uses. He can kite you and outranges you.
About shadow refugee, if the engineer runs grenades the thief hut turns into a free invitation to nuke you. Same applies to bombs if you are close to him, at range its ok cause he needs time to walk to you.
Oh and another thing dont try to do obvious cloak & daggers you get blocked or nuked depending on the spec and kits the engi uses.
Stealth instantly if the engi uses a smoke bomb even if he uses it defensivly. He will most likley use it to stealth and nuke you.
Always assume that your first ambush does no damage so never spend to much initiative in it. Engis have way to many ways to negate damage completly.
The biggest problem for a thief is that you cant play the “force all cooldowns” game against an engineer. A three kit engi has always a burst, def or cc skill off cooldown.
Which type of engineer and in which scenario.
As always make on yourself and learn how the class works is the best answer.
Sorry, I did enter a mini tournament with my guild and the 1 class that beat me was a turret Engineer I believe.
Lol a turret engi, call him an kitten for using a spec that is designed to not die to a single attacker. On the bright side you wont die too if you just stay at range.
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Which type of engineer and in which scenario.
As always make on yourself and learn how the class works is the best answer.
personal taste?
So in WvW I have seen necromancers do well as support, but I was wondering if there is a affective build to kill off the frontline Warriors and Guardians? Meaning straight flat off them as fast as possible at range or med range.
Necros never support, their only job is to kill the enemy zerg with well of corruption and well of suffering. Both are one of the best zerg spells in the whole game.
Well when I say stupidly tanky I mean you can take 220% more punishment than anyone else before dying… but that’s not to say you WON’T die, because, well, with no vigor, evades, blocks, or invulnerabilities, you WILL actually take that punishment, whereas anyone else would just be able to get away and reset the fight.
If only signet of vampirism were decent and worked in death shroud.
For a troll build, death’s embrace is insane. If a zerker downs you and doesnt use blinds/stealth to secure the stomp you can usually down and kill them in downed state.
1)
I really love the concept behind Realm versus Realm.
It just needs adjustments, some stuff is really anoying right now:
2)
- the superiority of the melee train
- Condi minus duration/plus duration buff food
- the stacking of some boons like swiftness or stability
- its easier to attack a keep than defend it
- not all professions are equaly good in WvW, some dont even have a niche
- specs that get over the top with food and stacks (cough hammer warrior cough)
- nike warriors
- the uselessness of conditions in zerk fights
- GWEN
3) Tier 1 EU
4) Never switched servers. Kodash is always the underdog in match ups but its fine as it is.
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As to the “much better ones” you’ve picked. Hemophilia is weak in any PvP content, especially if you already have +80% condition duration. And in this case same applies to Master of Terror. Unless your opponent happens to have lemon grass or melandru runes this trait will increase your fear by just 20%. Not worth the slot imo.
You need 100% fear duration to get a second tick fear damage, I more or less never see any roamer use lemongrass or anything similar.
Their isnt ENOUGH boon striping, corrupting, destroying and stealing in the game, its the reason why those celestial might stacking builds are so good (cough op cough). If even a necromancer cant strip boons faster than a hambow or d/d ele with celestial can apply them than something is wrong.
The problem with the no healing in DS causes a whole trait line (bloodmagic especially the siphon traits) and healing skills like bloodfiend to become useless half the time.
While i agree that simply allowing all healing to work in Ds may be to strong, a change is needed to make the siphon life play style more viable and not so punishing. I think fixing the problems with bloodmagic would give necros the sustain playstyle they supposed to have.
I guess it would be super OP (and I play a necro too) because you could endlessly switch between healthbars but yeah something needs to be done. They are just to scared to give the necro some tankiness/attrition back. In the beta necros could outlast 5 or more people in WvW or slowly kill up to 3 people on point in tPvP. One patch later they basicaly removed or nerfed every tanky skill/trait etc the necro had back than. They never changed it back or adjusted it.
The OP has clearly never played a necro, but I do agree that LF needs a rework. Having ALL your durability come from a 2nd health bar is extremely difficult to balance, especially 1v1: when it’s empty you’re basically a sitting duck, and when it’s full you’re stupidly tanky!
I really think we should get more access to boons and other sustain mechanics, and have life force become just an energy bar that powers DS skills.
Necro is stupidly tanky because the lack of mobility and evasion mechanics.
Necro isnt stupidly tanky, a bunker guardian is stupidly tanky, a shout warrior is stupidly tanky, a regen condi ranger is stupidly tanky. Compared to real tanky specs necro is squishy as hell.
I would actually want ArenaNet to balance out the skill spam that Elementalists and Engineers have access to before they try to give that kind of skill spam out to yet another class. It is bad enough having to deal with two professions that can spam almost twice as many skills as you have access to without adding to that particular problem.
On the other hand, if this was part of a revamp of profession mechanics to bring the number of skills available to all professions to a level comparable with the Elementalist and the Engineer, then I am all for it. Although I could see both Elementalist and Engineer players balking a bit at losing their advantage in the number of skills they can spam.
Thanks.
You have no clue what you are talking about, I actually wrote a long post to explain why more skills doesnt equal better but I deleted it because I guess its a waste of effort.
my suggestion is stop complaining about an issue that isn’t there, and learn to play if you can’t beat bad players.
i’m seriously starting to get kittened off at this flooding of “proposed, balanced thief nerfs” by people that have no idea how the profession works.
The problem is that kittenty players get carried by it, like warrior and guardian, thief is a really easy class which alows you to jump in PvP and do good without much knowledge of the game in general. Try this with the other 5 classes, wont work. So removing all those crutches that make those classes carry bad players is a good thing.
Low risk high rewards builds attract a lot of those pvp heroes thinking they are the best.
Its stupid not to play low risk/high reward if you want to win. Look at any composition of the best teams. They only run low risk/high reward specs.
Maybee make engineers need to load up their kits too while in combat before they can use them and bevor we forget thieves should generate initiative in combat and start with zero.
That’s a very balanced build with great stats. That little furious demise trait can allow for some decent bursts without having to take death perception. Do you feel like you are missing anything? Can you manage being condition spammed?
I think you should exchange 1 point from death to curses to grab ground wells though or if that’s not your thing since I don’t want to argue that again :p, weakening shroud is pretty sweet too considering you have Near to Death— Weakness is a nice condition that necros can provide as opposed to poison and bleed that fly around everywhere. Soul Comprehension is not a bad thing to have, but you’ll get more out of your plague and dagger 4. The thing about “on death” traits is that they are a snowball thing meaning they tend to work the most in fights you’re already winning and you should have tons of LF from SR. If you don’t like your DS is generating fast enough, take vital persistence to slow down decay.
I don’t really think the boon food is worth it. IMO it’s only worth taking when you have enough group boons like on a guardian which spit them out constantly to everyone. Yes, you get more swiftness but you already have pack runes, and you can squeeze a bit more out of FITG, but IMO you’d be best served taking toughness/vit food or -condi food. Also, swiftness is pretty common on zergs, so you don’t need perfect swiftness uptime though I understand that travel on a necro can be pretty painful.
The curses trait is really situational all options are good. Im not 100% sure but afaik soul comprehension gives you life force for dead enemies and allies. I dont think its needed but the buff food + 15% duration from the curses trait line give me 100% fury uptime. Pact runes give 13,5 seconds and furious demise 6,75 seconds. I dont really need minus condi duration food, the on demand 4 (with +% buff duration) stability really help and the self condi clear is enough usually.
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So you want to nerf a trait that isnt very reliable. Hmm. Let me consider. Errr, no. If anything Diamond skin should be somewhere in the range of 80%. Meaning a 20k hp ele would require atleast 4k of direct damage which isnt really hard to do in wvw.
Because the ele will never heal, especially if with an ele
Ok OP here thats what im running right now and it actually works REALLY well.
The idea behind is that the 35% boon duration gives me basicaly perma swiftness with rune of the pack procs and spectral walk (spec walk is 49 sec swiftness alone) and almost perma fury with furious demise and rune of the pack procs.
You also get some nice might stacks with reaper’s might, sigil of strength and rune of the pack. Soul comprehension and near to death give a full death shroud every 7 sec.
Its really tanky with almost 2900 base armor and thx to 50% crit chance with fury it deals actually good damage. You need to have a guardian for stability in your group to run it and the boon duration food is soul bound and a little bit anoying to make and costs a bit if you buy the candy from the market.
On all the pro necros out their what needs to be changed that power builds are valiable in tPvP?
The quickness in wich he spammed 6 ini skills (CnD and smoke field), was amazing, much faster then it is on my thief, wich has 2 traits giving ini. well 3 if you count steal
Look its WvW dont take it to serious, if something feels wrong look through your combat log. You find some really weird exploiters in that mode i fought my share of eles that use dagger/focus offhand skills in the same fight or warriors that can spam hammerstuns without cooldown over the years. Just report them and move on.
Power builds lose massive proportions of their damage when their cooldowns are negated and ranged power builds do weak damage even when they land everything.
Thats completly untrue, I just throw 2 out two examples that I personaly play alot. Fresh air scepter eles have insane burst that is more or less unavoidable because its instant and very good damage sustain. A proper power necro crits for around 3,5k per autoattacck in death shroud at 1200 range and has over 50% crit chance. You can do that every 7 seconds for a long time so it doesnt matter if half the hits are blocked or dodged. Thats without fire/air sigil btw.
About sigils of course you use crit sigils why shouldnt you use them in a power build. Condi specs use condi duration runes, power specs use crit sigils. Condi damage is lower in general, even if you refuse to believe it. Its actually one third lower than what a power spec pushes out with equal stats.
About poison, alot of power builds use sigil of doom too or apply poison with their attacks especially thieves , necros and engis its not something only condi specs can use. Condi clear removes the condi damage completly, speced for it you have ZERO problems with condi pressure from one enemy if you play a necro, guardian, warrior or ele. If you prefer to run full zerker without condi clear its your own fault. Just look at the current meta their isnt a single condi tank in any competitive top team. The only type of condi spec you find are celestial hyprid specs and those usually do more power than condi damage.
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I’m all for down with celestial. It is ridiculously overused.
The problem with celestial imo is that you have to sacrifice nothing. You only lack damage but thats easily compensated by might stacking.