Guardians and necros in general, water eles, warriors that spec for it. Engis and Focus eles have tons of utility to counter conditions because almost all condi specs are ranged in the current meta. Bunker rangers can basicaly ignore condi pressure from one enemy. Do I need to continue? People just dont know when to back of, like having 7stacks of bleed and burning on them and think “oh im over 50% hp it will be fine”…
… and because we are here in the ele forum, the typical celestial D/D meta build can easily deal with condi pressure. If you run zerker staff in WvW and get spammed to death by bleeds etc. its not the fault of condition damage its because your spec isnt usefull outside of zerg Vs. zerg.
I dont think they will allow healing in DS beside some tiny exeptions because they dont want necros to heal full in DS. It would turn necros into sustain monsters and the defs seem to not want that.
thief is the ultimate “all or nothing” profession. either we kill really fast, or we’re dead meat. either we completely null the damage coming to us, or we’re dead.
Looks at P/D condi… laughs
P/D is extra vulnerable on team fights because it sacrifices mobility/evasion and relies on stealthing often. different tool, same principle: avoid damage altogether.
Very far from the truth. I believe of all of the weapon sets available to the thief, P/D is the most mobile. I run it for the sole purpose of its rather astonishing mobility and effectiveness in 1vmany situations due to the sheer effectiveness of CnD’s detarget and the mobility/disengage at a very low cost SS offers.
Pd is not vulnerable in team fights has higher survivability. Its bad for my team comps coz it doesn’t bring enough dps, almost everything about pd is selfish. What happens in even egagements is pd thief team gets wipe coz pd thiefs isn’t bringing much to the team but pd thief survives.
SS for mobility is so situational and its not good mobility. Esp if your versing people that aren’t brain dead who are constantly kiting you and keep you at range.
He is right, theirs a reason why that cheesy spec isnt played in tPvP by good teams. The mobility thing is also true, just try to fight a good ranger or engi that keeps you at 1200 range constantly. P/D just happens to be good against alot of the easy mode specs “cough” warrior “cough” that run around in WvW right now.
The problem with condition builds is the damage they can dish out fast while being tanky, the very same problem current warrior power builds have. And regarding conditions thats caused by ignoring armor only relying on one and a half stat.
Oh believe me you are not dishing out damage fast as condi necro compared to other builds/classes and only thieves and engis cant counter-build condi specs. Eles, guardians and to some extend warriors can build, especially in WvW with the minus condi duration food, so that they are basicaly immune to conditions and still deal tons of damage. With zerker thieves backstabbing for 10k and more on 3k armor condition builds are the best way to counter that.
Build a hp buffer, get minus condi duration food and dont play a engi or thief and you can deal with condi bunker specs. Bevor you say omg its unfair that those two classes cant deal with condi necros keep in mind that a condi necro can basicaly go to the toilet when a diamond skin ele or a condi removal focused guardian jumps on them because a necro cant even escape.
Like seriously why do people whine so much about meta builds like celestial or condi bunker specs. Saying those builds are lame or unfair. Thats basicaly like saying that the winner of a car race is lame and unfair because he has the best car / best team.
Not using the best horse you have available for a horse race and than complaining that you cant win is rather childish.
They really need to rework the healing aspect of the necromancer. In beta the necro was a sustain monster and one beta patch later they removed tons of heal/defense stuff from the class. Since that patch all heal traits are useless and a whole aspect of the class doesnt work. They never tried to tweak it and rebalance the attrition, life steal aspect of the class they just completly threw it into the trashcan to rot.
P/D is extra vulnerable on team fights because it sacrifices mobility/evasion and relies on stealthing often. different tool, same principle: avoid damage altogether.
P/D is near invunerable againt alot of specs in 1v1 it sacrifices mobility/evasion and relies on stealthing often. different tool, same principle: avoid damage altogether.
Just waiting for the, “the game isnt build around 1v1” argument but if you draw that card I dont want to hear condi tank or turret engi complains from thiefs too.
just because you saw the flaw in your own argument and called it out doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
people keep treating duels and 1v1s as the standard of balancing when it’s painfully obvious that the game is not meant for that.
I pointed out the flaw in your argument and now you are going to spam random straw man arguments? You said that thieves always have to kill targets fast or are dead. Your argument made it sound like its always the case. I did nothing else than show you a common thief build that contradicts your absolute statement. You couldnt argue with it so you posted some random words about how P/D condi is weak in teamfights and how it sacrifices typical thief atributes to archive it. Which has nothing to do with my statement that P/D is exactly the opposite of kill fast or be killed. Seriously…
As for the MMO vs. the MOBA, you can’t really separate the argument between the two, because the fact is that GW2 sPvP was marketed as an eSport. An eSport, by definition, is meant to be highly competitive among the most elite players. You can’t have elite players if it doesn’t take time, hard work, and dedication to master the game and you have ample opportunity to beat a veteran player from Day 1. Casual gamers are not competitive; eSports gamers are. You can’t try to appeal to two polar opposite crowds, because all you’re left with is a mess, as you can see with GW2’s current sPvP.
I think its healthy for mmo’s to have a more casual PvP mode. I know everyone crys about how Bliz handles WoW PvP but they did a pretty good job at giving people a casual orientated capture the flag or hold the point mode and a super serious 3v3 arena. Newbies usually cry how completly broken frost mages are in WoW and how they can win 1v3 in arena mode. Good players know that in a serious match frost mages get focused 24/7 and its actually a very frustraiting job to do and do well.
In the more casual modes newbies can learn how to actually counter specs like that and its not the end of the world if they die while trying. GW2 basically has no casual PvP mode because WvW doesnt count. I mean how can anybody, for example, learn how to counter warriors when they can stack CC reduction to a point where it doesnt affect them at all.
P/D is extra vulnerable on team fights because it sacrifices mobility/evasion and relies on stealthing often. different tool, same principle: avoid damage altogether.
P/D is near invunerable againt alot of specs in 1v1 it sacrifices mobility/evasion and relies on stealthing often. different tool, same principle: avoid damage altogether.
Just waiting for the, “the game isnt build around 1v1” argument but if you draw that card I dont want to hear condi tank or turret engi complains from thiefs too.
WvW roaming on a necro can become dull when your opponent flees, but then again personally i count those fights as victory. Even as a thief its pointless to chase most warriors and, to some extend, elementalists.
Well yeah I stoped roaming on my condi necro it might be super efficient but you are threated like you have a infectious plague everthing beside diamond skin eles avoids you at any cost 1v1.
Taking condition builds into the equation is nuts because conditions currently throw any balancing out of the window the smaller the amount of participating players is in sPvP and WvW.
Its not nuts they are just part of the meta, they arent even the most used specs. You see way more celestial eles/engis/warriors and zerker thieves, which are all meta builds, than condi bunkers.
Do you know why I personaly roam with condi specs in WvW? Because I dont want to get 2 hit by warriors after I used all my dodges. With a zerker build I would be a sitting duck when I cant dodge anymore and they pop all their stance to keyboard smash me to death. I personaly enjoy power necro way more than condi for example but its just suicidal to use it as roamer in the current meta.
thief is the ultimate “all or nothing” profession. either we kill really fast, or we’re dead meat. either we completely null the damage coming to us, or we’re dead.
So you successfully eliminated a thief´s squishyness by sacrificing damage AND mobility, which is part of attition. outside of a duel anyone would walk away.
Thats how roaming with necro works… everyone walks away with 30% hp
Thief has too much mobility? Did you know a Thief that doesn’t stealth as much is all about positioning on a situational basis, otherwise we are dead meat?
I was fighting a necro on my necro and i got feared while fearing him which feared him which feared me and he could still fear me with his fear…. but it feared him , so i guess necros are balanced.
Translation: DS#3 procs nightmare, which procs reaper prot, which procs reaper prot, he the uses his ds#3 but it also procs my nightmare
…and than you proceed to throw conditions at each others like playing table tennis
And when someone says that they have 400 or 300 employees they probably have 5 of them working as a balance team.
That would not be a problem because a balance team does not need to be big to be good, they dont code it, they dont make graphics and models they just balance it.
For all we know maybee they are good at what they are doing but balance has such a low priority in the production pipeline or they are forced to only release stuff every 6 month with the rest of the game. The slow update cycle is the real problem here because even really good balance teams basically adjust stuff more or less randomly to tweak it right, you can never really know what happens if you alter a number in such a complex system.
QQ my passive easymode build got countered pls nerf so I don’t have to think when I play.
All rabid and dire do is make your already easy wins against virtually every other build in the game go a little faster. Condi hate exists, try thinking about how to fight it instead of just stacking more condi then crying when it doesn’t work.
QQ passive easy mode diamond skin build complains about easy mode. Also their is no difference between stacking condi and stacking normal damage. Condi damage is acctually easier to negate if you dont play a engineer.
TL’DR:
Yes, veterans need a clear advantage. But this advantage should be as small as you can make it (while still existing clearly), so that any mistake a veteran makes can quickly (not rarely, the crucial point!) result in a win for a rookie.
Theirs no competitive game on computer or reality that works that way. Experience and trained reflexes > all.
People call thieves spammy because they can spam ONE gimmick over and over, aka blind blind blind or evade evade evade or stealth stealth stealth depending on the build. Every thief spec that is actually used relies on one single gimmick to function. That makes them completly OP against any build that cant deal with that specific gimmick and completly useless against any build that can completly ignore that gimmick.
People here always claim that thieves dont need to play in skill rotations because they can use whatever skill they want but in reality thats not true its the most predictable class beside warriors because the situation forces them to use specific skills. If you know the thief spec you know exactly what the thief does at any time in a 1v1 situation because every thief spec is so tunnel visioned to function around one gimmick that you actually have zero freedom how to play and thats why they are so spammy.
It seriously nerfs the ability to automaticaly stomp people in a blindfield.
Who uses blind to stomp when anybody and their mom can stop you because you’re out in the open? Use stealth stomp and completely prevent anybody from stopping you. It won’t end the complaints sir, it won’t.
Stealth stomp is countered by aoe cc like reaper’s mark or one of the engi pushbacks, black powder isnt.
1. Press Death Shroud.
2. Cast Life Blast. One single hit within 600 will take an ele with 2.8k armor below 90%, even if you are full condi.
3. Cast terror and/or load your condi’s.
The only back and forth you should have is trying to do this while water attunement is on lockout.
In the mean time, sit down and think about how weak almost every class is in the game when up against a condi necro. You hard counter everyone. Allah forbid someone hard counters you back.
IT HARDCOUNTERS an entire profession (power necros is a joke right now) and telling people they should crazy outplay a diamond skin ele because yes forcing him to lock water WHEN HE DOES NOT NEED TO HEAL ANYTHING because of no condition applied is almost impossible. The elementalist on the other side does not need to do anything, especially with condi reduction food in WvW.
I made a long pause and now D/D eles seem almost invincible when I use a terrormancer. Any tips? Especially with diamond skin I do zero damage, cant apply any CC, it feels totaly hopeless.
-The only few builds that works on thieves are spammy builds. We searched for anything else but nobody found because there is nothing else.
Than make them less spammy, honestly you could reduce the dodge, stealth or blind spam by 30% and those builds would work exactly the same in PvP. The only difference would be that you could not spam those skills anymore. You would have to actually counterplay enemies and use those defense skills at the right moment. Those spam builds carry players to a higher ranking as they should be because the spam closes holes in their defense skills. For example I play alot engineer pvp and if I fight a good player that doesnt track enemy cooldowns its usually a thief. You wont find it on any other professions, even good thieves usually have no clue of all the cooldown timers because they automatically dodge, dodge, dodge or blind, blind, blind no matter what the enemy does. Another thing that hints at that problem is that you usually only find whine threads about condi necros and engis in the thief forum. The reason is because those builds can spam their damage even more than the thief can spam his defense so they eventually down in damage.
If people would actually read they would understand that he wants a way to punish those skills, so they are not brainafk to use. Guardians, warriors and thieves have to much access to skills that are to easy to use because you cant counterplay it. Like punishing warriors in the next patch for F1 skill spamming, their should be a option to counter play gap closers on thieves.
Warriors need to get rid of their stupid brainless easy skills, hurrddurr one button long immunities, hurr durr one button strong damage skills. Get them on the same level as the other classes.
And are hands down the best class at picking off other DPS at the back of a fight, got some staff ele giving you grief in the backline? If you have a top notch thief player go put him on that staff ele. They can chase well when the target is low and they can stomp in stealth, they can stomp in a bind field, hell they can stomp with shadow step.
Assuming everyone is decent at their class they can only pick off eles in the backline that sit in the wrong attunment. A necro justactivates deathshroud an laughs while the thief gets aoe’s to death, the odd engi or ranger in the backline will CC him. So they cant really do anything, a mesmer, ranger or engineer is way better at sniping people in the backline because they dont have to go in melee range. How often do you see thief stomps work in zerg vs zerg fights? Even inn the most unorganised groups everyone spams shadow refugee with aoe when it appears.
Everything that makes a build less spammy is a good thing. Thief has way to many spam builds nowadays. Stealthspam, blindspam, dodgespam. Spammable stuff removes alot of skill from a build. For example the dodgespamming thief build isnt that strong because you can dodge every important enemy skill, its because you randomly dodge all that dangerous instant cast skills that you shouldnt be able to dodge at all.
I’d certainly not say OP, it’s clearly BiS for some builds like DD/engi but that doesn’t make it broken. Other build types still want soldiers/clerics/zerk and celestial isn’t competing with those.
The damage output of some celestial specs is way to high because of might stacking. Strength sigils and celestial together are broken.
Wait til balance patch day, theirs a high chance that they will nerf the stats on celestial gear because it makes many might stacking specs to forgiving
The problem with fixing the necro is that the only forum with as many cobwebs in it is the WvW forum.
The problem with necro is that a D/D ele is way more tanky, has actually defensive cooldowns, more cc and damage than a necro. So why even consider using a necro in PvP
The risk reward is not equal on all classes, thats the reason why we see warriors and guardians on every team.
There is a need for different risk:reward ratios in this game.
Firstly, you need to have something that is low risk with decent reward as an entry way for new players. Otherwise you’ll see PvP dwindle to just the same people because anyone new gets stomped by the pros instantly.
Secondly, some people crave to play high risk with high reward. You can’t just take that away “because balance”.
Thirdly, an equal risk:reward ratio has nothing to do with inter-class balance. After all, how do you decide who wins when you have a low risk:low reward spec, such as a tank, against a high risk:high reward build such as a glass cannon? Based on just that one parameter, you can’t do kitten.
Did you read my post? The problem isnt mediocre risk/decent reward versus high risk/high reward its that some professions offer high reward/low risk compared to the other classes.
Very high sustain through regen, decent damage output and overall tankiness. If you think about it warriors are closer to what i had expected of the necro class when I made my first one more than a year ago.
The risk reward is not equal on all classes, thats the reason why we see warriors and guardians on every team.
Have you ever played against a kittenty warrior? I havent, because their are no really kittenty warriors. You can kitten up with every class and be completly useless exept warrior, even if you push random buttons you are at least doing something good for the teamfight.
Warriors, guardians and to some extend thieves reward you way to much for the risk you have to take to play them. Its ok if mmorpg’s have difficult and easy classes but the gap is way to big in GW2. Guards are so popular not only because they are so good at supporting it is because they are reliable, its hard to kitten up with a guardian. The risk/reward balance heads way to much in the reward direction. Same with thieves, the reason why we see almost only thieves as zerker roamers is because its less risky to use a thief. Their are some exceptions like D/D eles and might stacking engis BUT they work because of celestial gear and why do they work with that type of gear because it offers alot more defense than other gear with the same amount of damage output. So in the end its a risk/reward problem again.
TL/DR
Make warriors, guardians and thieves as risky to play as the other 5 classes.
I dont know if im alone with my oppinion but for it feels like supertanky warriors that can also dish out alot of damage + tons of o-kitten buttons and buff food/traits/runes reducing conditions to almost zero kinda make zerging shallow?
Wouldnt it require more tactics and thinking? Right now melee trains are to dominant in my oppinion, to durable and dish out to much damage at the same time. If you stick to together you can survive much greater forces as wari/guardian melee train. The whole depth of zerging right now is “hug the commander”.
At least add a hardcap to how much boon time you can stack in WvW, especially stability.
I’d rather have a protracted battle with a SA thief than watch a S/S LB dire stat heal-on-shout warrior drool all over his keyboard and beat pretty much anyone.
Yeah exactly a thief no matter which spec needs to actually think to win fights, some specific WvW warrior specs can basicaly smash their head against the keyboard.
