Guild Wars 2

Sounds like a pure PvP sigil, nobody would use it in PvE and in WvW theirs enough condi clean already so its not needed.

Kyuubi.2640:

In terms of being skillful, it requires more skill to play an ele than most of the classes. There’s just not a lot of passive builds you can play with ele that will help the noobs. So lets not dumb the class down more. Thats why I dislike people complaining about stuff like, this or ice bow, LMAO. Its whatever, some people are good at gaming and some aren’t, just surprised how much Anet has dumb down this game since launch. The cheese is so strong nowadays…..

Im not saying that they should nerf fresh air builds but I made a long pause, almost a year, made an ele for PvP and the only build that I could handle after such a long pause was fresh air.

Docherty.8372:

But, like I tell new Thieves – bait the rolls, dodge the interrupts – they can’t keep it up forever – they’re playing with cooldowns, you’re not. It’s not rocket-surgery, you still need basic dueling skills to win against switched-on players.

Last time I checked the thief is the one that runs out of options and gets “cooldown locked” against D/D eles or 3kit engis (which are both common PvP builds) that know what they are doing. In a skill spam race a thief cant compete with eles and engis, if you try it you will most likley lose.

the problem with P/P is that everything that uses condition or can burst in one lockdown will wipe the floor with you

Zenith.7301:

The difference between scepter ele and a thief is the scepter ele has huge cooldowns to do the burst a thief can do way more often.

Air attunement switch lightning strike, lightning strike, fire sigil, air sigil every 5 seconds HURTS a lot.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Mayama.1854:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i lost hope that they were hiding something when they came out today and announced that mesmer was getting extra changes based on player feedback.

it might still happen, but if it does, why wouldn’t they say it on the preview?

Dude just accept it.

Traps and venoms will be useless forever.
Thiefs will be kitten in teamfights forever.
Necros will always die in teamfights to focus.
Necros will never have a working blood traitline.
Mesmers will always be horrible buggy.
Mesmers and Thieves will always have only one working role in groups.
Ranger pets will always be dump.
Rangers will always be complelty OP or useless
etc etc etc
you get it, its 2 years now…

the balance team is mostly the same from GW1, and GW1 had some late blossoms and big overhauls to certain profession skills that brought crap builds to meta.

…if you weren’t a paragon, that is.

I wouldnt care much about the changes if we wouldnt have a 6 month dev cycle.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i lost hope that they were hiding something when they came out today and announced that mesmer was getting extra changes based on player feedback.

it might still happen, but if it does, why wouldn’t they say it on the preview?

Dude just accept it.

Traps and venoms will be useless forever.
Thiefs will be kitten in teamfights forever.
Necros will always die in teamfights to focus.
Necros will never have a working blood traitline.
Mesmers will always be horrible buggy.
Mesmers and Thieves will always have only one working role in groups.
Ranger pets will always be dump.
Rangers will always be complelty OP or useless
etc etc etc
you get it, its 2 years now…

No we are not too sour, theirs just a limit after 2 years.

All that say that the DS change is a nice buff dont get it, you could do that since release.

Necro was a sustain monster in beta, you could tank 5+ enemies for a crazy long time and with LoS you could even down some. I still remember escaping 30+ man zergs in beta with DS and spectral armor easily running back into my zerg while they all focused me. Next beta patch nerfed necro into the ground and the class never recovered.

no siphon buff, no heals in DS gg

Cynz.9437:

Mayama.1854:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Mayama.1854:

nickxnickx.5401:

Chicago Jack.5647:

nickxnickx.5401:

Should it not? Should thieves stand back most the time and attack from a distance.
You understand we need gap closers..

They should be able to zone people out, of course, but all forms of thief – as with any class – should be able to be peeled away. S/D is nefarious in being extremely difficult to peel. People get frustrated over this because it means, like the warrior with their beserker stance, they have easy capability to tunnel vision. Fortunately thieves have a way more active playstyle than warriors. However S/D’s defensive structure shuts down an overwhelming amount of possible peeling mechanics. The bruiser, dodging spec is fun and should be in the game, but it has to be easier to peel it away.

Thieves are almost lack luster in everything they have. The more you’re able to peel away from them, takes away they’re whole class aspect of being “pesky”, as well as, nerfs the crap out of them. Reason being.. if a thief is not near you, what are you doing? – attacking.

So being able to peel away from a thief. Specifically a S/D thief (one of few weapon sets) will just make the thief an even more defeat able target.

However, if a thief is on you, it gives the thief a chance when you’re burning dodges.

Sure it makes thieves tunnel vision someone, but do thieves really have an alternative to not? (aoe abilities?)

Beeing lackluster in any other aspect is no reason to give a class in an mmorpg the tool s to do one thing super well. Look ive played some mmorpg PvP and other games have stuff like mages that can one shot anyone, they cant do anything else. Is it balanced? Nope because it removes any counterplay.

good things thieves aren’t like that, huh?

thief’s strong point is 1v1. sadly, it also happens to be the only thing we’re not sub-par at. meanwhile, most other classes have more than one strong point and more than one weak point, depending on how they build.

It just frustraiting that mmorpg devs dont learn. Look at WoW, the most popular mmorpg ever, they have frost mages. Its quite similar to the gw2 thief, very elusive, high burst, no sustain damage and very good at controling enemies. Its the major pain in the kitten in that games PvP. You cant tell me thatt the gw2 devs dont know that but they designed the thief class in the exact same way.

This is disinformation right here, mages were so strong not only because of their high dmg but amount of CC they had, they could keep someone CCd for 1+ min if they tried. Thieves NOWHERE nearly have such amount of controll, 1.5 sec stun on 45 sec CD and maybe mini immob from sword (that actually costs initiative, basically putting other spells on CD) can hardly considered CC bomb like mages were. Heck, even rogues in Wow had absurd amount of CC compared to thieves in GW2.

There is no class in wow you could compare thieves to, thieves in this game have conditional stealth (not perma), they are very mobile and high dmg potetial with some ranged options but that is where it ends.
Rogues for example were also squishy but they had perma stealth, high amount of CC, high dmg, bad/mediocre moblity (compared to other classes in wow) and with only ranged dmging spell. People played rogues as peel bot with burst on demand for arena not as scout/assassin like thieves are in this game.

Thieves in gw2 always control, watch any thief video if you wont believe me, thieves are designed in a way to make them always in control of the 1v1. You are always the aggressor as thief, the class forces the enemy to react. It works exactly the same as frost mages in WoW. It doesnt matter how you archive the control. Also why do you bring the WoW rogue into this discussion it has nothing to do with it…

messiah.1908:

Mayama.1854:

[

in group fight i can admit i see more p/d condi but if you run with group they should easily cleanse. sure the p/d can catch you and kill you but as any other build

A p/d condi thief that chases you is harmless, he has no way to apply pressure while chasing. The best way to give a P/D condi thief the middle finger is to just run away. That guy went into WvW with his super awesome 1v1 spec and now you have the kitteniness to give zero kittens about it.

if i play p/d condi and i catch the backline memser/necro/ranger/ele 90% i can down them in 1 burst. dont forget they wont have full hp while i have full burst. sometime the ele can run away to his group and cleanse. but after i burst i have 36 seconds with almost nothing just pewpewpew

I guess you play one of those p/d condi thieves that dies to a single putrid mark.

Klonko.8341:

I know about 1vs1, and i’m okay because I win most of time. But It’s wrong when you end up fighting a group of people and most of them are P/D. It’s just boring and bad…

A group of P/D thieves would most likely lose to a group made out of any possible composition, because P/D does not really scale into teamfights. PU mesmers are team fight gods compared to a P/D condi thief. Just to give you something to measure it.

messiah.1908:

in group fight i can admit i see more p/d condi but if you run with group they should easily cleanse. sure the p/d can catch you and kill you but as any other build

A p/d condi thief that chases you is harmless, he has no way to apply pressure while chasing. The best way to give a P/D condi thief the middle finger is to just run away. That guy went into WvW with his super awesome 1v1 spec and now you have the kitteniness to give zero kittens about it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What I have to say about elites is that some of them are useful in certain circumstances. However, there are plenty of circumstances in which I’d prefer to have a fourth utility skill, instead. From GW to GW2, elites went from the cornerstone of one’s build to being an occasionally useful skill.

I always liked the idea to turn all elite skills into signets. Make a power, condition, def and utility elite for every class. Passive mode just gives a bonus to the stat and active is something that helps that kind of build. Right now elites are either completly useless or trivalize specific situations.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Mayama.1854:

nickxnickx.5401:

Chicago Jack.5647:

nickxnickx.5401:

Should it not? Should thieves stand back most the time and attack from a distance.
You understand we need gap closers..

They should be able to zone people out, of course, but all forms of thief – as with any class – should be able to be peeled away. S/D is nefarious in being extremely difficult to peel. People get frustrated over this because it means, like the warrior with their beserker stance, they have easy capability to tunnel vision. Fortunately thieves have a way more active playstyle than warriors. However S/D’s defensive structure shuts down an overwhelming amount of possible peeling mechanics. The bruiser, dodging spec is fun and should be in the game, but it has to be easier to peel it away.

Thieves are almost lack luster in everything they have. The more you’re able to peel away from them, takes away they’re whole class aspect of being “pesky”, as well as, nerfs the crap out of them. Reason being.. if a thief is not near you, what are you doing? – attacking.

So being able to peel away from a thief. Specifically a S/D thief (one of few weapon sets) will just make the thief an even more defeat able target.

However, if a thief is on you, it gives the thief a chance when you’re burning dodges.

Sure it makes thieves tunnel vision someone, but do thieves really have an alternative to not? (aoe abilities?)

Beeing lackluster in any other aspect is no reason to give a class in an mmorpg the tool s to do one thing super well. Look ive played some mmorpg PvP and other games have stuff like mages that can one shot anyone, they cant do anything else. Is it balanced? Nope because it removes any counterplay.

good things thieves aren’t like that, huh?

thief’s strong point is 1v1. sadly, it also happens to be the only thing we’re not sub-par at. meanwhile, most other classes have more than one strong point and more than one weak point, depending on how they build.

It just frustraiting that mmorpg devs dont learn. Look at WoW, the most popular mmorpg ever, they have frost mages. Its quite similar to the gw2 thief, very elusive, high burst, no sustain damage and very good at controling enemies. Its the major pain in the kitten in that games PvP. You cant tell me thatt the gw2 devs dont know that but they designed the thief class in the exact same way.

Maugetarr.6823:

The double-edged sword of playing the class with the most potential, but not necessarily the most powerful class.

It doesnt have the most potential its just a 100% control class, which means it forces the enemy constantly into defense. The thief is usually always in control of the fight. His class skills allow that. Once you know that and play the waiting game thieves become alot easier. Thats the reason why engineers are the best class against thieves, you cant force all cooldowns and you cant predict everything a engi does which results in losing the control over the fight. Overall its bad class design, for the same reasons why frost mages in WoW are badly designed. Classes in mmorpgs that are build around completly controling the fight will never be balanced. That GW2 has two of them, thief and mesmer, doesnt make the situation easier.

Edit:
Deleted a big rant about how thieves are actually easy to play, would have only started a flamewar.

Ok sorry for that and I guess I overreacted a bit. So back on topic. They dont get what the thief needs, well no sorry they dont see what ANY class needs. Its really frustraiting to see such a nice system go down the gutter. I dont say that lightharded because I usually stay calm and watch what happens. Imo the thief needs, first and foremost, a bit of his play style removed, remove some of the stealth and dodge spam but make him a bit more out in the open fighterish (is that even a word?). That would make him alot easier to balance and if a thief could actually take a bit of beating traps and stuff might be actually worth taking (after fixing them too of course). I guess I watch the necro class changes cause its the last class I play that wasnt in a preview already and if they kitten him up too I just take a loooooooooooooong brake. I mean what does A-net care I never bought a single gem anyway.

nickxnickx.5401:

Chicago Jack.5647:

nickxnickx.5401:

Should it not? Should thieves stand back most the time and attack from a distance.
You understand we need gap closers..

They should be able to zone people out, of course, but all forms of thief – as with any class – should be able to be peeled away. S/D is nefarious in being extremely difficult to peel. People get frustrated over this because it means, like the warrior with their beserker stance, they have easy capability to tunnel vision. Fortunately thieves have a way more active playstyle than warriors. However S/D’s defensive structure shuts down an overwhelming amount of possible peeling mechanics. The bruiser, dodging spec is fun and should be in the game, but it has to be easier to peel it away.

Thieves are almost lack luster in everything they have. The more you’re able to peel away from them, takes away they’re whole class aspect of being “pesky”, as well as, nerfs the crap out of them. Reason being.. if a thief is not near you, what are you doing? – attacking.

So being able to peel away from a thief. Specifically a S/D thief (one of few weapon sets) will just make the thief an even more defeat able target.

However, if a thief is on you, it gives the thief a chance when you’re burning dodges.

Sure it makes thieves tunnel vision someone, but do thieves really have an alternative to not? (aoe abilities?)

Beeing lackluster in any other aspect is no reason to give a class in an mmorpg the tool s to do one thing super well. Look ive played some mmorpg PvP and other games have stuff like mages that can one shot anyone, they cant do anything else. Is it balanced? Nope because it removes any counterplay.

nearlight.3064:

musu.9205:

I tried pu and it’s meh then i went back to my CI and standard shatter for reasons.
PU with scepter still dont have aoe condition pressure like engi and necro means less damage potential and easy to deal with when the meta is guard/ele/war for tpvp.
Adding torment doesnt help pu mesmer that much ,they are already strong for 1v1, also clone death is more a defensive trait (I doubt u even really used it).

The builds a tend to run in pvp right now are glass S/F ele, glassish power necro

about this im pretty sure everyone who has some brain and played pvp a lot will tell you glassish power necro and s/f ele aren’t highest skillful play ,they are not even your words “high risk” at all. what they truly are is one trick pony —--almost one shot u in secs and for rest time they are struggling to stay alive (yeah this is hard while u could have more teammate help after your burst someone down ) that’s how they are played. They don’t have much trouble to land damage at all unlike CI or shatter mesmer(unless aoe is hard to land to point lol).

Wake up and stop crying about P/d thief and pu mesmer ,at least for pvp

If S/F ele doesn’t require skill, and careful management of cooldowns and skills, than I don’t know what does. Power necro, yeah that’s several times simpler. But you can’t deny that those builds are high risk high reward, and that gives me more satisfaction than all the cheese builds I mentioned here for one reason or another.

So once again, this post isn’t specifically about one class, but rather the direction anet is overall going towards with much of its changes.

Dunno about you but on my 5k crit 100% crit chance in DS power necro I have to play alot less carefully and can juggle cooldowns way more randomly than on my full blown condimancer.

Its something that bothers me since they announced that necros get a defense buff.

Whats the problem with it you might ask? Well its the scaling of the necro class mechanic. Death shroud does not scale well with the number of enemies you face. Necros a very good 1v1 fighters but struggle against multible opponents. The reason for this is that the extra life bar is meaningless if 3 people hit you at the same time. Blocks or evades for example scale well because it doesnt matter how many people try to hit you while you activated the defensive skill.

So if they stay true to the class which means: No escapes and no real damage avoidance; than I cant see a way to balance the necro. Every buff that does not fundamentaly change the class and brings it up to par with the other classes in team fights would automaticaly make it completly OP in any 1v1 scenario.

So you want nike elementalists too? Arent nike warriors enough in WvW?

Linnael.1069:

We’re talking about all game modes. As an elementalist I would literally rather take a fourth utility than any of my elites, no matter what I’m doing where or when.

Supply drop dominates spvp like nobody’s business.
Thieves guild is a won fight when soloroaming.

FGs is one of the best elites for WvW…

and thieves guild is not a won fight against alot of builds becaues it gives them something to actually hit which triggers their on hit/on crit ect. skills. For example if you use thieves guild against a necromancer he will happily transfer all conditions to your thieves guild while sitting in death shroud to outlast the damage.

Chicago Jack.5647:

The change to mesmer scepter auto is the worst potential change to pvp next to almost introducing perplex runes in the game. They are basically giving mesmer an impale skill.

Wait for the necro changes, if they want to bring its def on paar with other classes in teamfights he will turn into a walking fortress in 1v1.

If they buff the necro defense in teamfights to a level that brings him on par with the other professions than the whine will be massive from players that like to 1v1.

Thief, Mesmer and Necro are made to be crazy good duelling professions. Its build into their class mechanics. You either nerf them into oblivion or they will be superior to other professions in 1v1.

Thief stealth/dodge spam will always give them an advantage in 1v1 but sucks in teamfights.

Mesmer clone spam will always give them an advantage in 1v1 but sucks in teamfights.

Necro death shroud will always give them an advantage in 1v1 but sucks in teamfights.

As much as I hate to fight PU Mesmers, P/D Thieves and Terrormancers myself they are all useless if you play as a team. I dont say its not easy mode but in the end its a team game and those specs cant compete in that mode.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Otaur.9268:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Everytime I hear sic em! or I am lucky enough to step on a stealth trap and see the reveal debuff on my buff bar, my daggers cringe and all I can think about is…..

WHERE IS MY DPS?!

Ty devs for giving other classes the tool to laugh into my face cos my offence is gone and usually condis are melting me at the same time. But at least dagger aa will cleave xD

That would be in your #2 spot. Heartseekers for 6k are insane…

Sure that kind of heartseeker is nice, too bad the target needs to be 25% HP or lower for that.

Tbh all those finisher skills or traits that deal more damage if someone has low HP make the game to bursty. Im playing alot of necro right now and its basicaly a joke that you can constantly throw 5-6k life blasts around in death shroud if someone is under 50% hp.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just pointing out a few things:

1.) There is no such thing as “perma” anything for the thief. If a thief was “perma-resetting” they would be immortal which is just exaggerating a falacy..

Thieves can reset at will as often as they want. To proof it you just need to watch a twitch or youtube video from any decent thief. I mean theirs even a good example on the thief forum right now, the video of that engi that duels P/D thieves. In every single video the thief constantly reseted the fight and only died because he overextended or did a stupid mistake. Its known throughout the community that a thief can reset as often as he wants if he knows what he does.

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an “iWin” button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is “banned” in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a “hidden rule” between “experienced players”: even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such “everything is fair” – even PU and SA and OP elites…<.<

Than maybee just accept that some classes/builds hardcounter others? Last time I checked a condi engi has zero chance against a condi necro that knows what he does. Same with supply crate. If its in the game you can use it.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Thats a good article about what blaming others for using “cheap” tactics etc. means. No offense but you argue like that guy that I dueled some days ago that whined and called me cheap because I feard him and two shot his thief in lich form. He dueled a power necromancer and he whined because I did something pretty obvious.

Anchoku.8142:

Just a note of clarification; an exploit, in game terms, is using an unintended feature/programming error.

All the “save” ways a necro can stomp are unintended.

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Esplen.3940:

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

It was so OP ^^ you could basicaly spawn a phantasm, stealth, repeat. The only thing the enemy saw was the torch animation.

Cynz.9437:

Mayama.1854:

Advent.6193:

Mayama.1854:

Condition are meant to be the thieves weak spot, similar to engineers and warriors (well warriors seem to get away with everything nowadays).

I’d argue that low base health and minimal access to defensive boons are plenty of weakness. After all, how fast does a glass Thief melt?

It takes quite a LONG time to kill a thief so whats you problem?

warrior can kill a thief with 1 attack
necro can kill a thief with 1 fear
ele can kill a thief with 1 attack chain
guardian can kill a thief with like 2-3 GS spells
should i continue?

Yeah totaly true happens all the time, thiefs stand around and wait to be hit all the time. Like guardians are so super squishy with their low HP…

Advent.6193:

Mayama.1854:

Condition are meant to be the thieves weak spot, similar to engineers and warriors (well warriors seem to get away with everything nowadays).

I’d argue that low base health and minimal access to defensive boons are plenty of weakness. After all, how fast does a glass Thief melt?

It takes quite a LONG time to kill a thief so whats you problem?

Advent.6193:

Now, as for the SA bit, I’ve been saying for months that ANet needed to start putting more condi-clear and sustain options into Acrobatics line. Mainly because of how over-weighted current SA is for Thief defense, especially when you consider the profession’s near absolute lack of defensive Boons/Stability.

Condition are meant to be the thieves weak spot, similar to engineers and warriors (well warriors seem to get away with everything nowadays).

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

What is wrong with the thief community thinking that their class takes more skill than most others… so many instant cast spells, so many ways to reset if you kitten up, initiative regenerates fast enough that you always can press that escape button, access to one of the best burst skills, access to arguable the best defensive tools. Kinda delusional, like its way easier to manage initiative than memorizing all cooldowns on a 3kid engineer.

Just a quick reply dont use spitefull marks. Marks deal not much damage so 10% wont make a difference. Scepter is a condi weapon.

If you ever want to frontline with your necro foot in the grave is a must, the 3 seconds of stability can really save your life. I would also take near to death so you can use the stability as often as possible.

Muchacho.2390:

They said that the aa from necro dagger will hit 2 targets and they said they want to make the skirmishing weapons of necros (mainhand dagger and axe) more viable. Meaning they want melee necromancer builds more survivable.

Though i am not sure how good they will become.

Because of the scaling of DS (full DS can be brutaly OP in a 1v1 but is useless in 1v3 or more) i really wonder how they want to do it.

I mean honestly how do you balance necros? They have basicaly only HP as defense and the kittentiest stunbreakers in the game. If you only tweak numbers you would have to give them so much HP that they can shrough off 100blades, pistolwhips etc like nothing to bring them in line with other tankier specs.

Usagi.4835:

• Mainhand dagger has one of the hardest-hitting autoattack chains in the game;

The problem is you cant get toe to toe with melee classes you have to kite them with melee weapons… its really really anoying.

flow.6043:

On topic:
First enable healing in DS, then we can talk about adjusting vamp traits.

I really want it too but I doubt that they want to open that can of worms. Their will be players that find options to stay alive endlessly if they allow it. With a balance cycle of half a year they dont want to risk something like that.

DeceiverX.8361:

When any other class can reach 80%+ crit rate with higher stats across the board, I don’t think it’s unique to thieves lol.

You can easily build a powermancer with 100% crit in deathshroud that is also very tanky and has good power. Not saying its OP on this class just pointing out that thief is not the only option.

Carighan.6758:

Now I’m not saying Thieves don’t deserve every single nerf they can get because hell is that class annoying to fight. 1v1. I don’t fight 1v1, that’d be a “fair” fight, why would I ever want to fight that. Sure I can win 1v1s, but I shouldn’t ever commit to them in the first place, too much risk, too little reward, too long spent fighting.

I personaly think that in general PU mesmers and Terrormancers are way more frustraiting to fight than any thief spec.

bethekey.8314:

I really tried to find some value in this, given your title, but I just can’t. You aren’t doing anything special here aside from using a build with good sustain and outlasting the thieves until they make a mistake. In other words, you’re not doing much of anything good; it’s the thieves doing something bad. Usually it’s them not dodging a magnet as the most evasive class in the game.

I understand recording perfect fights is both difficult and unrealistic. However, I see countless times you dodge for no reason, block for no reason, overcharged shot out of range, and waste cds like jump shot for a stealth that the thief can easily outlast. Running a mile away (resetting cds) isn’t actually valid strategy for anything competitive (maybe it is in WvW then?). At some points, fights simply devolved into staring contests. Magnet can be cancelled to bait dodges, and standing perfectly still certainly isn’t a good way of masking it. And using crate 1v1 vs a thief?

You might say some of the above issues I bring up are due to trying to predict when the thief will burst you from stealth. Even then, you should never blow both of your dodges and burn through your only block. Good thieves will capitalize on that.

Also about crates… its part of the class. If you have it you can use it.

All in all, video much more appropriately titled “Fun fights with P/D thieves I happened to win”.

As I said in another thread the video is really good at showing how many times a P/D thief can kitten up completly and get away with it. I would go so far and say that this build is even more idiot proof than PU mesmer and hammer warrior in WvW.

dietzero.3514:

So to you, numbers = dominating?

And Thieves kill any chance of pvp and wvw roaming being balanced.

Thieves are not at the top of the WvW roaming food chain, if you roam in your typical zerg spec you asking for getting your face kicked in.

Their are so many thieves in WvW because you can always run away if you kitten up and its entrance level for being good at 1v1 is lower than on lets say a fresh air ele or engi.

The super anoying P/D condi thief is kinda balanced because you can always walk away from him, thiers nothing he can do against it. If he chases you he has no initiative left to damage you. Same works with PU mesmers btw.

BrunoBRS.5178:

warriors lose adrenaline when they miss their burst. thieves lose initiative. it’s the same thing. so for the love of god stop this stupid crusade against thieves. anyone misses a skill, the skill goes on cooldown. a thief misses a skill, their global cooldown goes down, like everyone else’s. there’s absolutely nothing else to this discussion.

Its different you cant shut down a thief with perma chill and inititative is the only reason why you cant play a block mesmer. So the initiative system gives an advantage. Saying that its equal is simply not true.

Raiff.6742:

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Golly gee willikers my frand Raiff is that the thanks I get for trying to help your clueless bum in that other thread! Vee Wee answered so many of your questions! These questions were extremely basic Engineer questions too! Oh well! A thankless job this is trying to help newbies on this 4um!

PS Turret Engineers are very bad! If you ever face anybody even remotely competent you will get your booty smacked! Bootysmack!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

It was that thread that showed me what kind of person you are. Technical stuff, you’re spot on. But in the opinion arena, you side with the safe crowd. I don’t blame you, that’s probably how you got in the top 10 for PvP, you did what was proven and easy. But that’s not what makes games grow, or promotes change of any kind in this world. Experimentation, imagination, and a willingness to break away from “What is proven to be right” to try and improve other ways., that is what promotes growth.

So sadly Vee Wee, you are par. Not above, not below, but average. no matter how good you do, if you never use your imagination and skills to promote change, you will never be above that.

Also, you suggested against turrets. I did the bomb/grenade walk that you suggested. It was boring, played, and countered. I went turrets, and every match after, my team rocked. So you can see what data I have to suggest you really don’t know more than the basics.

Adios Amigo!

What a snob… do you think you know everything about engineers? Do you really think the “top 10” do not experiment? Seriously… how do you think that those “meta” builds are made? Its very good players experimenting with the game til they basicaly tried everything possible and found out what actually works and those players usually invest a ton more time into doing that than the average player. Do you think you personaly have more insight into the game as the whole collective of all top players combined? Stop beeing so full of yourself. The status quo that you personaly hate so much is nothing more than the combined knowledge of all players playing that game for almost 2 years now and that patch in particular for 6 month.

You made another thread here asking the most basic things about engineers. That shows that you have basicaly zero clue about the profession. So in short you are the new kid that acts all smug and thinks he knows it all. Get of your high horse kid.

Torsailr.8456:

Axialbloom.8109:

Agreed. Our feedback will be (even more) meaningless for the last 2 professions at this rate.

This isn’t really a fair statement to make. Development times are much longer than most people realize. No, 2 weeks isn’t enough time to read feedback and make changes, but then 8 weeks is on the short side too. The most that would ever be changed in this time frame is a slight tweaking of numbers; the actual functional changes being made won’t change. Any feedback dictating a large change to anything they’ve announced won’t be happening until the next patch.

Do you play dota2? They tweak and drasticaly change things faster than 2 weaks if needed.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

While warriors do have decent sustain and high damage, they are also the most visible of all of the classes except Guardian.

Most visible? What the kitten are you talking about, the most visible “class” are norns… also please enlighten me and tell me more about how other classes have the same sustain + damage as a warrior. I would also want to hear more about how warriors are less of a damage sponge than necromancers…

You need to change exactly one thing to keep perma resetting thieves in check (and PU mesmers). Add dimishing return to stealth in WvW. Problem solved.

Novalitus.7382:

So how comes no change has been made to the staff?

Because its the most usefull weapon, its boring but its the only real ranged option and it offers the most utility. What else should a bower build use? Main hand axe / Main hand dagger?

Thats what really anoys me about the necromancer. 10 skills of the necro are set in stone. DS and staff, you can only chose you second weapon set and utility spells. If you are not a minion master the chance is high that you use only 5 utility spells in all your builds. If you play a condi necro the only real choice is your offhand weapon.

The video really shows how much you can kitten up with a P/D condi thief and still do decently. The second one did massive kitten ups like running straight into your ult or standing right next to a big ol bomb without even trying to avoid it but he didnt get punished for it at all. PU mesmer and P/D condi thieves are basicaly idiot proof. Just compare the effort the engi had to put into the duel compared to the thief. Even if its one of the hardest match ups for a P/D thief.