Guild Wars 2

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

If you think D/P is just pressing #5 #2 to win, then you’re wrong.
It’s got simple rotations perhaps, but every single skill is useful at least.

So you know it.

Its simple and every single skills are useful

And yes most of them press hs bp combo and this is important key to win. If you arent doing it u are wrong.

so let me ask you. Which part is hard to play as d/p?

You can basically get in stealth anytime u want with so much blinds , got condi removal gap closer with blind , interrupts. Rotation is super simple.

Why do u think there are so many thieves use d/p in wvw and pvp thats because its strongest weapon set that all skills are useful and basically its easy to faceroll.

Did you even try vs d/p with s/d or d/d?

D/p is always easier to win than other weapon set thats because having access to so much blinds , gap closer and easy access to stealth u will always have advantage with opening burst.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

D/P has high skill cap once you take off SA, play DA/CS/Tr and run full zerker or close to it, at least S/D has plenty of evades compared.

D/P never req high skills to play thats even without SA lol.

from what i’ve experienced d/p and p/d is super easiest set to play.

SonOfJacob.7396:

Agreed. Hopefully this is coming. It really was a HUGE quality of life improvement for armor and weapons.

Yeah Hope it happens !

imo.

if u take hidden killer from CS line u can basically lower/give up precision and adds up more defensive stats like hp/armor because of 100% crit on stealthed. and more ferocity from cs line that provides.

Deadly arts also great especially i love that mug + executioner.

I find panic strike quite useful but dont think its 100% necessary.

I guess personal preference.

I take DA when i play d/p and CS when i play d/d

This is my own made up build. (Basically same power/ferocity for all builds 2400+power/1100+ ferocity (215~220+ crit dmg))

Which 1 would u prefer to run it in wvw?

Build #1 : 15215 HP / 2118 Armor / 43% Crit Chance Unbuffed (Speed Runes)

Build # 2 : 14075 HP / 2118 Armor / 50% Crit Chance Unbuffed. (Speed Runes)

Build # 3 : 14275 HP / 2217 Armor / 41% Crit Chance Unbuffed. (Traveler Runes 15% boon duration)

I just cant seem to roam in wvw without that 25% movement speed provided from traveler/speed runes. and extra open utility slot instead of shadow signet.

I will prob go for build #1 but lmk what u guys think.

stats above is unbuffed (no wvw fortitude buffs , food,utility buffs)

D/P is the strongest weapon set.

S/d and D/d also works but not really strong like d/p.

Let us change our ascended backpiece stats with the forge too !

Just like armors/weapons.

Would be great thanks.

Sandrox.9524:

There always been thieves who said it was l2p while other said it is op like mesmers are torned today,and history showed us that thieves got nerfed in the end so I suspect mesmers will too eventually.

Sandrox i think u got no idea what u are talking about.

You got 0% understanding of all professions.

Purecura.1795:

I’m happy with the PU buff, all these people complaining really annoys me. PU and lockdown have always been my favorite Mesmer builds. With the PU buff to stealth and the boons you get are amazing, I truly enjoy the gameplay even more when playing as a PU Mesmer.

Arena Net! Robert Gee! Please don’t NERF the PU buff, I really feel PU is beyond fun now. So once again thank you, and don’t listen to the negativity spewing forth from those hating on the new buff for PU Mesmers.

Abuse that PU !!!!!!!!! before it gets nerfed ^.^

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

You know ele is a good exmaple for this.

Ele is 1 of professions that has so much sustain & tough to kill.

But as u see ele has super low hp and they still survive so well thats because they have good traits/utility skills weapon set skills thats helps sustain/survival. and thieves need those kind of buffs not just hp increase.

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

I used infiltrator’s signet + shadowstep + shadow refugee before the patch.

but after the patch since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p bp helps more against their open burst than infiltrator’s signet. But yeah i do agree infiltrator’s signet is also great to land that cnd + stunbreaks and small ini recover. I do swap them around depends on situation.

Btw i tried the acro line yesterday and it worked out great especially better survivability than trickery but trickery seems to provide more burst but yeah acro is definitely a great choice imo.

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

Kevin.5980:

I think the necro complain is against mesmer’s stealth not against thief. 3 life blast from necro would down a thief in pvp. Not including condi burst/transfer they could do, dont think necro has any issues against thief.

Thief do need some buff on survival, i feel so weak when i got down by just one WW from warrior from near full hp lol.

Yeah but the problem is those necroes want the reveal debuff upon entering shroud because of only reason they are having hard time vs mesmers which isnt only necro’s problem. and because of that thief will be even more weaker once more profession gets reveal debuff. It’s just not right to have so many reveal debuffs on so many professions.

Phantom Master.9582:

Good day fellow Mesmers of the community, its not a secret that Mesmer is currently in the spotlight for possibly being the strongest profession in the game at this moment.

Bad news is that every build that has been in this spotlight have been nerfed to dust in the past. These builds include Beast Ranger, Old Phantasm Mesmer, Spirit Ranger, Hambow Warrior, S/D Thief, Dhuumfire Necro, etc. (The only build that comes to mind that came back after getting destroyed by the spotlight is D/d elementalist, however it took an entire year for its comeback.) The gw2 balance team is dangerously influenced by the infantly cries of the forums which puts our build diversity to risk.

To avoid this fate from happening to the current shatter mesmer, we should discuss changes should be done in order to bring mesmer down to the level of the other professions without over-nerfing.

I’ll start with my suggestions:

• Power Block: Interrupts deal damage and inflict weakness. Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown.
  This trait is really unique and cool, but the reward is insane considering the low risk now that mantras recharge in the background. The increased cooldown is 15 SECONDS! This is crazy powerful for such a low risk involving the current state of mantra of distraction. For a nerf, I would reduce the increased cooldown to 7.5seconds or less.

• Confounding Suggestions: Chance to inflict stun whenever you daze a target. Increased stun and daze duration.
  Mesmer have always had crazy shatter damage, this isn’t new, however it took lots of clone micromanaging and planning to properly set up for a good mindwrack burst. With this trait, its all thrown out the window, with the new Mantra of Distraction you can easily stun whenever you feel like it to setup for your burst, its easy and rewards bad mesmers as much as good mesmers which is just heartbreaking. I would remove the stun and simply slightly increase the daze duration in order to bring this trait closer to the power of the other adept traits.

• Prismatic Understanding: Increased stealth duration from mesmer skills. Gain random boons while you are in stealth.
  This trait doubles the duration of our stealth abilities, considering that stealth is a completely broken mechanic with no counters in this game, this gives us wayyy too much flexibility when setting up for our burst and wayyy too much forgiveness for our mistakes. I would suggest nerfing this to only a +50% stealth duration instead of the current +100%.

Discuss.

Finally a reasonable thread that offers a resonable suggestion.

Memser shouldnt be over nerfed but some of traits needs to be toned down as u stated above.

Btw kinda sad u didnt mention d/d thieves which has been nerfed harder than s/d lol

DHawk.2687:

MidoriMarch.8067:

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

Not trying to be rude
It’s just trickery doesn’t excell outside of pure burst and run away or 1v1 fights
The extra ini is nice, don’t get me wrong, but if you miss your CnD either use bp or make sure to hit the other, and especially in Zerg dives it’s hard to miss it ^^ so many dumb targets. And you gain vigor in acrobatics on a successful dodge as well if I’m not mistaking
But after practicing with dd for a while it’s not hard to get the CnD’s on target, sure everyone misses, but I have the shadowstep, the bp, shortbow, 2 insta stunbreaks, can’t be immobed, high health, shadow refuge, etc to keep me going
I’m not trying to brag but I havent once not gotten out of a Zerg focusing on me and acrobatics is one of the main reasons for it, and it really helps out taking out someone hiding within a group of players, I can litterally walk through a static field and not even notice it, even better, I get swiftness from it xD

I will give it a try thanks.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Wurm runes seems to be popular after the patch ;o

We need the added survivability and it allows us to not have to take Deadly Arts since we make up some damage in Critical Hits.

might try those out.

Anyway good to see many people still running d/d

seriously hope anet do something for d/d

Wurm runes seems to be popular after the patch ;o

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

After the patch our survival has been nerfed to the ground.

And build diversity is more less+not as effective like before.

Ofc we may hit harder than before but others can do too and they have more better survival than us.

YET there is more complain qq from necro forum that ask reveal debuff upon entering shroud just because they are having hard time against pu mesmers. I just dont even understand why they hate stealth. Just because of no counter? I dont think so u can still win the duel against stealthed thief or mesmer and that comes from a knowledge/experience of dueling , playing pvp/wvw and seems like some people doesnt even know how to play their own class and yet qq.

Well i do agree PU mesmers and overall they are a bit too strong atm but that doesnt mean more profession should get reveal debuffs especially when thief has been nerfed hard out already it will make us even more bad.

I do have all professions except the ranger and engi and from my perspective view thief is not a master class. But people think thief is like a god class that can dominate everything.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Why-so-much-complain-from-necroes/page/2#post5284213

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/We-should-see-invisible-enemies-during-shroud/page/2#post5284161

DHawk.2687:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Interesting build.
But i cant imagine playing dd thief without running cis and trickery :0
Especially after the post patch.

Why rely on trickery so bad, yes it’s a good trait tree, but acrobatic works better for DD because the 50% speed lets me hit every backstab and the stunbreaks allow for easy Zerg dives

Because that + extra initiative is so good to give up. and bountiful theft boon steals + vigor help us survive better + more damage.

Your build can only land 2 cnd which means if u miss them u are pretty much screwed.

and u dont need that stunbreak on acro to avoid zerg. you are pretty much dead if u meet up with bunch of zerg focusing u down anyway

@x Charlie.4820

You are wrong.

Yes, now we can put 3 trait lines.

But how does that increased thief’s survival when actually SA/ACRO traits got nerfed together? Now i see u are really typical selfish 1’s that only cares about 1 main profession u play, and dont even know what’s going on with other profession. And u guys talk like i hate necroes but wrong i also play necroes and i dont think necroes are garbage like u guys do.

Go check on thief forum more than 80% thieves are not satified about the patch. and most of them are related to survival.

Sparda.9750:

instead to buff us, they should consider to nerf mesmer ele and guard.. they are the same thing, do the same thing and it s npot a good stuff

I do agree on this.

not guard but mesmer and ele.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

You guys know that there are like 20 of you all arguing against the same person… just let this thread die, he clearly hates necros and won’t stop until they get nerfed, best thing to do is just ignore him.

Scroll up and seee.

And your words are not valid because u are already paying attention/made a reply to the thread. nice logic dude.

x Charlie.4820:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Trust me, necro is in top 3 in pvp.

I’ve dueled this Edelweiss (Genesis.7693) guy which claimed thief always win 100% fight against necro. i played necro which was cookie cutter signet build from metabattle and he used d/p i won the duel 16-3. More like thief without using d/p wont even stand a chance against necro.

I dont know him and i don’t know you. So this doesn’t have any point to it.

Ontop of that, 1v1s don’t dictate balance. Certainly not 1v1s by players who could have a big difference in their skill levels.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Necro is already in a good spot yet everytime i check necro forum people always complains. reveal debuff , stability , mobilities. Why not stop the greed? Seems like u guys just want to have everything and be more op like mesmer.

So your in agreement that other classes are stronger than us, but also don’t think we should be buffed. This paragraph alone contradicts itself.

Necro is always first target in teamfight regardless of build, Yet you seem to think that is balanced.

Again, Your talking about different threads from different people. Nobody asked for them ALL. They are IDEAS.

Our 2 main power weapons after HoT will be greatsword and dagger, Now that chill doesn’t affect movement abilities you’re going to have a tough time staying in melee. That’s why people want some mobility.

MidoriMarch.8067:

And seems like u guys dont know, thief now hits much harder yes but in return their survivability has been nerfed hard (trait stat bonus removed which result in -200 armor / healing power vitality.) and also practiced tolerence vitality nerf , SA line nerfed (SE , CIS GM) feline grace nerfed. which means its very squishy. Lets be honest Ele/Mesmer/Necro is top tier in pvp.

Your not taking into account the buffs it got. It’s now able to take 3 full traitlines, That alone increased it’s survival.

Everyone got a stat reduction unless they played some weird 33333 build or something prepatch. That arguement isn’t valid.

It’s the only one able to have access to the vigor prior to patch (Everyone elses got nerfed.)

Now i don’t think thiefs are much of a problem for a necro with DS but your acting like they’re trash tier. They’re definatly above us.

They can decap, boonstrip (Preventing any stability stomps), stealth, interrupt on demand, Have high mobility and have better survivability than a necro. If a thief gets focused in a teamfight and he has good reactions he can lose focus real quick.

Where does ur logic come from? Necro isnt the first target to kill because they lack stability/cc’s also because they are big threat to leave alive. and i dont even understand why thats related to balance. Play wise dude and u talk like thief is actually master class that can do anything but u are wrong go play a thief. Thief is most useless out of all profession in team play based pvp.

Khristophoros.7194:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Full reminder that marks exist. And if the enemy is out of range of setting off a mark you wouldn’t be able to deal with them anyway.

This is a slippery slope to all classes having personal detection or reveal.

Marks don’t give us a fighting chance against mesmers let’s be real.

I told you.

Necro is not the only class that suffers vs those mesmers.

Let’s be reasonable, make a thread to balance mesmer not reveal debuffs.

having so many reveal debuffs on many profession ruins the whole stealth mechanic and no point of using stealth.

Trust me, necro is in top 3 in pvp.

I’ve dueled this Edelweiss (Genesis.7693) guy which claimed thief always win 100% fight against necro. i played necro which was cookie cutter signet build from metabattle and he used d/p i won the duel 16-3. More like thief without using d/p wont even stand a chance against necro.

Necro is already in a good spot yet everytime i check necro forum people always complains. reveal debuff , stability , mobilities. Why not stop the greed? Seems like u guys just want to have everything and be more op like mesmer.

And seems like u guys dont know, thief now hits much harder yes but in return their survivability has been nerfed hard (trait stat bonus removed which result in -200 armor / healing power vitality.) and also practiced tolerence vitality nerf , SA line nerfed (SE , CIS GM) feline grace nerfed. which means its very squishy. Lets be honest Ele/Mesmer/Necro is top tier in pvp.

zapv.8051:

If you are killing a thief in wvw, it’s because that thief is bad, or overcommitted. Thieves should never ever die in wvw, and rarely die in pvp (go watch good thieves, and tell me how many times they die a game). All our aoes don’t mean anything when they can stealth and port away, spam interrupts, and blind every few seconds. A good thief in wvw will chip away at your DS till it’s gone then go in for the kill, and there is very very little you can do about it. Also, even if it where the case that necros where gods of 1vs1 they would still be tough to take on a team because of all the problems in teamfights.

I tend to think the only people saying necro is strong are people who say this based off of strictly their experience. Necros, like every class, can do great when you aren’t playing really good people. When you start to fight people who can dodge all your 3/4 second casts, coordinate burst, and use their cooldowns efficiently you start to see why necros are bottom tier. Also, most if not all of the game balance should be around top tier play (with the exceptions being things like turret engi which was simply infuriating). In top tier play their are very few necros, so clearly necros need buffs.

It is that simple, don’t overcomplicate it with things like, “I think this or that.” The common players opinion isn’t really relevant when talking about balance because the common player hasn’t learned to dodge, rotate and work with their team. There are exceptions to this rule, but in general it is true.

Having said that, necros did get some decent sustain buffs, but the other core problems like lack of stab, easily counterable damage, mobility, invulns, reflects and support are still their.

You are so wrong.

What u are talking about is pre-patch not the post-patch.

Since thief is even more squishy after the patch , 1 single mistake and you are pretty much dead.

Good necro wont get chipped,waste their ds from thief u obviously doesnt know how to play necro if u lost to a thief.

Interesting build.
But i cant imagine playing dd thief without running cis and trickery :0
Especially after the post patch.

@Sandrox

you are the ignorant 1
I dont even know if u are playing thief or not.
I am talking about increasing thief vitality wont solve the problem here.
and having increase hp + our old trait back would make thief Op as kitten and everyone will qq nerf it. So u want thief to be tanky as kitten and do the super burst as well?
Why not make a thread that is more reasonable?

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Genesis.7693:

Sandrox.9524:

Axelwarrior.9084:

If you are “dominating” Thieves in 1v1, you’re playing aganst bad thieves (or worse than you, at least). End of story, that’s all there is to it.

nope,power necro after patch kills thieves easly cause thieves got nerfed hard.

You have no idea what you’re talking about lol….thief got nothing but buffs and now they hit harder than ever. Any half decent thief that doesn’t just sit and eat your damage will spin circles around you and destroy you. Don’t be disillusioned because you play against less skilled opponents.

Bottom line was necro fell behind comparatively to other classes simply because power creep didn’t hit us as hard. We do 20-30% less damage than before with a marauder amulet compared to old zerk for a net gain of 8% extra crit and 3k hp. If you decide to go zerk ammy then good luck surviving Mesmer burst or thief backstab with that base 19k
hp. You’re basically asking to get insta-bursted even if you have full DS.

u are the 1 who doesnt know kitten about it.
thief’s damage got buffed but the survaivability got nerfed hard. Go check thief forum
and there is no way thief or mesmer can 1 shot full ds necro without 100% full glass cannon signet thief or mesmer which means they are very squishy. And u expect surviving full burst with zerker amulet necro? Lol seems like u are the 1 that needs to learn how things going atm.

Khristophoros.7194:

DeceiverX.8361:

Khristophoros.7194:

And it’s more about being able to fight mesmers.

This is the biggest issue I have with proposing for reveal – the thief’s class mechanic and pretty much all of its damage and essential utility comes from its stealth attacks. Throwing reveal around willy-nilly, especially now of all times (thief is bottom-tier with necro atm, if not worse) without comping up with some huge compensation for the thief in regards to its damage potential/stealth attacks is just a really bad idea.

If the problem is mesmers being OP in stealth, but not thieves (which as a class require it for the most part aside from a few builds like P/P and S/P), then just nerf mesmer stealth, not stealth as a whole.

That’s why I’m suggesting personal detection not the reveal debuff. In that case the worst it does to the thief is now he has to play around the necro’s shroud more carefully instead of “oh that necro popped shroud now his team can see me and I’m dead” of course that would be dumb.

Why dont u ask devs to remove stealth completely from the game?

Will u be satisfied when every single profession get reveal/detection debuffs?

Necro is already strong against the thief after the patch since thief’s survivability has been nerfed to the max.

Just because u are having hard time against PU mesmers doesnt mean u need the detection/reveal buff.

Every single professions now are having hard time vs those mesmers not only necroes.

It would be way too unfair for thief/mesmer and no point of having stealth when every single professions start to cry about “we need reveal/stealth detection”

Zenith.7301:

Rudy.6184:

Zenith.7301:

Mesmer, warrior, and thief are highly effective against ele because all these three classes have strong spike and CC options to keep the ele under pressure. Eles perform best against ranger/necro/guardian because those classes have inferior spike/pressure options.

It is funny to read someone who doesn’t play ele writing such things. Thieves perform well against eles? Wut? They die to aoe and condies before doing something. Warrior sometimes is a problem, but mainly rampage, mesmer is even match i would say (if not pu). But… Performing best against necros – lol eles have hardest time agiainst those, SoS and corrupt boon is pain for ele. Against guardian and ranger i would agree.

As for how to deal with ele – time well your interrupts – it will collapse the attunement rotation and lower pressure from him. Best interrupt his burning speed at beggining (before evade animation). After every interrupt cast damaging skill. Boonstrip as much as you can, especially before burst, make burst after earth (if he use stone heart) or strip protection.

S/D thief is a solid ele counter, you must be playing terrible thieves. D/P thief is a pretty even match up.

Necro is cake on an ele, I’ve mained ele/mesmer/ranger since before release early beta, I don’t need your lecturing. Ele has such spammable and short cd condi cleanse, a single corrupt boon isn’t really going to ruin you and neither is signet of spite.

Necromancers have horrendous sustain and very long cast times on their heals( read: easy to interrupt), heals which have fairly long cd’s and heal for relatively little of the necromancer’s health pool. They have garbage for spike and unless you’re facetanking wells you should be able to wear them down if you play aggressively.

Lol S/D thief is solid ele counter? u must have fought ele that doesnt even know how to play.

Ele is a nightmare for the thief after the patch especially when they trait blinding ashes or even with earth stone heart trait.

Only way to beat ele as thief is to burst them down quick but good ele wont stay still and wait for thief to burst u down. And especially when S/d got nerfed. and even with D/P its hard match up against ele

Necrotize.2974:

Mixing up targets with the real mesmer only really works on new players. I mean, remember when PU first became a thing and everyone was crying that it was so broken and OP for mesmer to have that much stealth(which was just +1 second). Then people just kinda slowly realized that if the mesmer is just sitting there in stealth collecting boons, they’re not really doing much to support their team and eventually PU mesmers kinda disappeared from SPvP.

Plus there are tons of people who hate playing against stealth just because it doesn’t have obvious counters that are as simple as slotting a different utility or picking a different trait. This is apparent from the thieves forums since…forever. Most of them wouldn’t be happy until stealth was either completely removed or nerfed into uselessness.

This is true but however. PU after the patch is a bit too much.

@Vieux P.1238

Btw where did that 99% thief players came from?

Check the thief forum and see how many people actually think positive & satisfied about the recent patch.

@Vieux P.1238

Do u even play thief? Thief is 1 of the hardest class to play out there.

If u actually think thief can burst down everyone just by pressing 222222 u are so bad and playing it wrong. Against a decent player that 222222 will lead u to suicide.

Don’t expect anything great patch about thieves from Dev.

They suck at balancing and they only listen to those skilless noobs who doesnt even have enough time spending on their own class to vs against thieves.

Nephrite.6954:

Guys does my post request the devs to not improve our traits? I only posted things that state how useless the dev is to our class, you know that guy who doesn’t give a kitten about this class. The one who forgets the name of thief traits during live stream.== Anyway of course I would appreciate it if they’d give us old feline grace and SE back. I’m just asking for them to increase our vitality as well so we won’t drop in a couple of Aoes so quickly. If only our vitality were same to engis and mesmers then we won’t have to spent much for vit in WvWvW, doesn’t this allow us contribute to other things like Precision or toughness? Yes, I understand thieves aren’t meant to tank, but I’m positively sure that increasing our vitality will help prevent us from dropping flies and assist us by providing the time to react to burst from other classes. As a thief player from almost a year and a half I’ve seen what people requested from this forum, request that are usually obvious nerfs. I’ve seen enough of them ask for feline grace nerf, SE, shadow rejuvenate etc, it’s endless look it up. To my absolute surprise they actually listened to them or were too inexperienced to balance it due to the lack of test. The nerfs are so ridiculous sometimes that I suspect they only test it on golems in Heart of Mist.

So you know it already. It would actually make a difference when we get about 10k+ hp but that would be just ridiculous we are not warriors or necroes. less than 10k hp wouldnt even make a big difference.

Just like ele or guardian as u said have great sustain thats because of their skills/trait NOT THE HP POOL. AND WE NEED THOSE KIND OF BUFFS NOT HP INCREASE.

Whats the point of having higher hp when we doesnt have those traits back or further solution? yes we may a bit tanky but the main problem would be still same. and as someone stated above there is almost 0% chance that dev will increase thief’s vitality higher chance would be trait fix.

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.

You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.

higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

or…in short…more vitality…lol ppl these days….

lol people with l2p issues only want thief to have more vitality pssh.

That’s why threads like this serve as a request you fool. Only want vitality? You kidding me?== I recommend you troll another thread.

More than half of people on this thread disagree with u increasing hp for thief so they must be trolling as well?

nope,only you.
Most here agree with it,and you are just a bad troll which obviously seen too much gameplay of thief rather than playing one.You cant say thief dosnt need vitality while there is a straight forward anomaly in proffesions base health which clearly shown thief got the lowest with no logic behind it.

scroll up and check it out u are obviously blind and i bet i have more time spent on thief than u salty boy. So u want thief to have just more vitality instead of SE/FG back? obviously u got no logic behind it and got no experience about thief at all.

Devs seriously brainless.

If u check on other class forums they are still crying about thief stealth op qq and want more nerf (well mesmer pu stealth is different story). and Devs just listen to those unskilled player that qqs it seems.

Terissimo.6852:

Even if its total trash compared to d/p now, still way more fun. Enjoy :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xuAJAOmRl4

Nice vid. Btw improvisation is too much rng and not worth taking it over executioner unless u use both cs/da.

I use SA/CS/Trickery but using haste + trickster trait. true that its hard to give up thrill of crime + bountiful theft but after the thief nerf that low cd on withdraw is so much necessary + condi removal and haste is pretty awesome that boost up ur dps crazy.

and executioner is surely awesome trait with panic strike but i use CS hidden killer for 100% backstab crit burst since i can invest more into defensive stats sacrificing precision. but anyway its really frustrating d/d is even more harder to play/survive than before after the patch. and since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p 99% of the time that also counters us.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I don’t agree when people say D/P is anywhere near “cheese” or boring.

Wrong.

D/p is cheese and strong thats why so many people runs d/p,

try to play d/d or s/d against d/p player u will get shrekt so hard thats because d/p is currently got every single advantages + more burst after the patch and its more easy low risk high reward.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Flumek.9043:

Youre plain wrong, nothing else. (For pvp, that is.)

Ele is nr1-2 and in S-tier with mesmer atm.

Necro is 7th, before ranger, both a clear tier behind warri/engie.

Idk what builds you had in mind, but short story is no team wants or needs a necro, and the ones who take a great necro player need to work a lot around him for medium results.

LOL necro is 7th? lmao u make me laugh.

I do agree ele and mesmers are a bit op atm but when i played my necro i hardly lose to any other class other than memser/good ranger that kites, lol necro is at least top 3.
so u guys are expecting mobility , stability , reveal ? why dont u just ask dev to let necro have everything and be op facerolling? I see so many qq on necro forum compare to other classess.

How would you rank the classes from top to bottom?

It seems we agree that Ele and mesmer are 1 & 2.

That leaves: Ranger, Necro, Warrior, Engi, Guard, thief

I think we can agree that rangers are the bottom right now.

So what you are saying is that necro is better than engi, guard, thief, and warrior…

Warrior who can 1 shot kill an entire team using certain builds right now while being 100% invuln?

Engi who can stack 10K+ burning ticks + every other condition repeatedly, while also doing great direct damage, have amazing heals, and stealth?

Thief who can burst 30K+, give the team stealth, heal to full in stealth, and move around the map 5x faster than necro?

Guard… well I don’t play a guard so I don’t actually know what they can do… maybe someone else can fill in here.

In a team fight a necro brings nothing but damage. Damage that is slower, harder to apply and less consistent then other classes. We have no way to avoid focus fire, so any team with a necro is immediately down 1 player since there is nothing a necro can do to escape and come back with.

I’ll admit that necro can 1v1 thieves and engineers pretty well, but that does not make them below necros.

LOL WHAT? whats up with those kittened 30k burst 10k burning ticks from?

More likely no one will just stand there get hit by full burst from them unless u are a noob. and 10k burning ticks? do u not know how to use condi removal? Do u just watch burn ticks go up like crazy doing nothing? What u are talking is absolutely absurd.

I see so many tears from necroes.

Just because tournament team doesnt run necro doesnt mean its bottom tier trash profession lol the logic. It’s true that necro are in good place right now thats why so many people in spvp/wvw runs it so stop crying just because necroes doesnt have everything. stability/mobility isnt mean to be necro’s

Esplen.3940:

MidoriMarch.8067:

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

Oh ok, then let’s remove Poisons, Traps, Tricks, Cantrips, and Steal from Thieves, while removing Stealth from Blasting/Leaping Combos, Ranger, Engineer, and Mesmer.

Majority of people agrees that PU stealth is op right now.

Currently PU power spec is 10 times harder to deal with than the current SA thief.
Period. There’s no comparison, not even close.

Thief is so easy to kill compare to Mesmer, Period. They don’t get invulnerable, evade (if they play perma-stealth, they have to go D/P, so no evade), their stealth time shorter, they can’t harm you when in stealth compare to mesmer, they don’t have easy access to reflection, their blind will cause them to sacrifice dps, their burst is easier to counter.
All they can do now is to land that first back-stab, if they fail they’re usually busted. This does not apply to Mesmer, since they have so many tools to cover their mistakes.

Also Mesmer’s stealth apply to more targets and bigger radius, that a small team of 5~10 can easily abuse PU and easily kill anyone in WvW with no consequences. of being chased or being tracked.

This is my experience against Mesmer and Thief. Period.

Thieves have counterplay. Even as a warrior, I know where SR is, I know roughly when their regular stealths end and where they need to be to burst, they’re easier to catch if they screw up, and they’re more confined by the initiative system for burst than are mesmers and their clones.

Sure, they have crazy burst coupled with engage/disengage, that’s their schtick. But it’s a fairly unforgiving class if you want to be bursty, especially compared to mesmers.

Landing warrior bursts requires more finesse than PU mesmers right now, and that seems so wrong. Couple that with the nutso survivability enhanced by PU and it should be obvious that rolling back the stealth bonus is a pretty non-disruptive fix.

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

Flumek.9043:

Youre plain wrong, nothing else. (For pvp, that is.)

Ele is nr1-2 and in S-tier with mesmer atm.

Necro is 7th, before ranger, both a clear tier behind warri/engie.

Idk what builds you had in mind, but short story is no team wants or needs a necro, and the ones who take a great necro player need to work a lot around him for medium results.

LOL necro is 7th? lmao u make me laugh.

I do agree ele and mesmers are a bit op atm but when i played my necro i hardly lose to any other class other than memser/good ranger that kites, lol necro is at least top 3.
so u guys are expecting mobility , stability , reveal ? why dont u just ask dev to let necro have everything and be op facerolling? I see so many qq on necro forum compare to other classess.

After the patch Necro + Ele are top tier in pvp/wvw.

We can tank and we can hit like a truck.

Why do people complain so much and being greedy.

Only thing I want is probably buff on axe and some of utility skill buffs.

Reveal buff? Lol why do we even need this to kill a thief? My power necro dominates 1v1 against thief most of the time even without reveal buff. Only problem is mesmer but it will be nerfed soon imo.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Yet you keep comparing the most op class atm with thief to validate your reasons to give thief more HP.

Whether you think devs care or not, it’s way more likely traits/skill would be changed instead of our HP pool.

Perhaps you should check other subforums, you’d find a thread where a devs agrees that all dmg sources are currently strong. Oh hey, if the problem is being 1 shot after dmg was buffed, why increase HP instead of reducing the dmg output across all classes? So it’s okay to 1 shot other classes but thief should be given more HP to deal with the insane burst? In case you forgot, ele and guardians also have the lowest health pool, if you stab zerker ele for 10-15k, he won’t outheal that while he is rolling his face in dirt.

Regarding condi, they are problem if you don’t use shadow embrace or you fight a pu mes, which was overbuffed. Thieves had issues with condis when using no SE even before. If built for condi removal, current zerker thief can fight and kill pu mes much easier than other classes can. Oh pu mes can reset and come back to kill a thief, get real, thieves have been doing this since launch.

I simply dislike the idea of turning thief class into warrior, we are supposed to be squishy and to avoid dmg instead of soaking it. If you want to facetank dmg flying at you, reroll.

That was my whole point. Thanks.

I don’t even understand why some of people want thief to have vitality increase.

We did absolutely fine before the patch even with low hp pool.

Only reason we are having hard time surviving out there right now is not because of HP pool.

And thief doesnt mean to have high hp pool like a warrior dont forget we are THIEF.

We just need buffs/revert on our survivability on traits/utility skills.

Jayden already stated most of it.

Bad Bad idea.

Why not just ask devs to delete stealth?

I play power shroud necro and i dont even need reveal buff to wreck thieves and mesmer. It’s true PU mesmers a bit op but thieves after the patch is super squishy and easy to kill. this is more likely l2p issue u can easily predict where they are when they go in stealth just by entering shroud cast number 5 and then 4. Also staff marks procs when they come near/step on it. so easy

we need axe buff + better utility skills more than this. stop being greedy necroes are already top tier in pvp/wvw after the patch.

Necroes are already strong against thief or mesmer without reveal.
Stop being greedy and we need axe buff more than this.

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.

You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.

higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

or…in short…more vitality…lol ppl these days….

lol people with l2p issues only want thief to have more vitality pssh.

That’s why threads like this serve as a request you fool. Only want vitality? You kidding me?== I recommend you troll another thread.

More than half of people on this thread disagree with u increasing hp for thief so they must be trolling as well?

Increasing HP on thief wont solve the main problems we have right now.

If u want high hp pool go play warrior or necromancer. I dont want thief to be a meatshield.

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.

You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.

higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back

or…in short…more vitality…lol ppl these days….

lol people with l2p issues only want thief to have more vitality pssh.