Guild Wars 2

If you don’t like them that much, just delete them… You got it for free after all.

If you don’t care what you get to do with them, just waste them on skinning and re-skinning… Other wise save them, maybe some day you will change your mind and be glad you have a bunch of them.

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

To me, they are literally worse than nothing at all, because I have to go through the hassle of the ‘safe delete’ system every time I get one. Which is most weeks. On 3 accounts.

Why not just keep it then the moment you die, just it? Then you don’t have to destroy it.

Otherwise I don’t think the 27ish key strokes is going to kill you.

As for the trans charges, they can’t be getting in your way with inventory… So whats the problem?

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

saving 10s thanks to repairs was a so-so reward before. Now that they’re free, it’s literally worth more inventory space to delete them and forego the “convenience” niche that they have. I don’t think teams wipe 7+ times anymore in fractals, and even if they did, you can char select->log in->repair for free->reenter

Yep, I never said it was a great super useful item, I just said they have some use. They are better then nothing at all.

You get something for free just because you logged in and you are complaining about it?

They actually do have some use for fractals or saving yourself a few seconds on running to a repair station.

You could reskin armor for giggles, maybe skin weapons or change by the day? Even if you’re not “ADD” about your look, if you are just looking to waste them…

I actually would love it if they could be sold, Id buy em~

It would be nice if it did come back.

Please post things like this in the MASSIVE Sab post that already exists.

GRATS!

I have really dumb luck, but I tend to use more colorful words to describe it when dealing with RNG xD.

ROFL #Featherduster butt is so going to be a new thing…

Actually though I agree, that’s the perfect description of it! Though with all the rest of the outfit, I’ll happily clean where I sit.

Is now AVAILABLE and it looks GREAT TY A-net

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Half the posts on here are “RNG IS RNG.” Non-thinking, mystical, hand-waving.
RNG loot may be the term in common parlance. It’s a bad term, doesn’t convey the whole picture, and the loot in this game is weighted based on tables, not primarily based on a RNG.

Pretty sure no one, said anything about non-thinking, mystical, hand-waving. That’s just the label and description you have broadly applied to myself and others who say it’s RNG.

Just because the odds of getting something are higher then the odds of getting something else, doesn’t mean it’s not a RNG loot system.

No one is saying that you have equal chances of getting every item, in fact I have said MANY times you have a higher chance of getting certain items then others. So the odds of getting the item are weighted, that does not mean the Random Number Generator doesn’t work. It’s the commonly excepted way RNG loot works.

I didn’t see a single non-thinking post like the one you mentioned. People saying it’s RNG isn’t saying or acting how you are depicting it. However RNG loot is the correct term, language does matter, and the term RNG loot is the correct language and usage for this type of loot system.

A system which is primarily determined by random number generation is a RNG loot system.

You are giving me way to much credit here, my kind of thinking? I’m pretty sure most of the people here, read the information, and come to their own conclusions. Regardless of what I say or don’t say, many of the opinions and thoughts stated here are most-likely not a result me saying something… So please, if you have a problem with the train of though that it is an RNG based loot system that’s 100% fine, state that. There is no need to single me out in this type of thinking.

Could you please clarify then, in your opinion has any morpg ever used or had a RNG loot system?

AdaephonDelat.3890:

That would be Patrick. I’ve no idea why they’re beating a dead Patrick.

OT – Yeah another tab for toys would be ace. Not just the Carpet, Broom and Tunneler but chuck in the other toys like the kites and balloons.

He doesn’t look dead to me xD

Yea having all the toy like items there would be a wonderful change

LoL So following Nevets’ logic, has any morpg used RNG loot?

As long as you have a chance, to get item a, b, c, or d no matter how low or high the chance of getting each item is; a random number is still generated and assigned to determine the item you receive. I fail to see how that is not a RNG loot system.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Sigh. RNG is used as this mystic catchall in this thread without a real understanding of what it means. People like Miku use the phrase without even thinking and it’s just used to wave away all patterns perceived by players, even when some are legitimate.

Sigh People like Nevets always come in with their tinfoil hat logic, and completely ignoring any other possible rationalizations. Using faulty calculations and miss information to explain their logic.

The term RNG loot or when someone says it’s just bad RNG doesn’t mean it’s 100% even chance for you to get any loot, it means it’s a random chance for you to get something.

I’d love it if the LWs2 laurel vendors were fixed, many people do not have access to the ascended nomad amulets Ogden’s Ahnk and Aspect amulet. From what I have heard they should be available after completing certain LWs2 parts, I have 100% mastery and they aren’t available…

So adding in some of the event items, and FIXING the current bugged ones would be great

azizul.8469:

having kitten skin and the ability to change stats on the fly is legendary enough to me…

I know kitten is the filter… but I was thinking… if we could have a legendary that shot kittens, and a charr used it that would be super legendary enough!

If a word or term used to define something fits the majorities use, and the majority understand it as such, it’s hardly petty. Calling a valid point petty on the other hand.

The loot is based on a RNG loot system. Rings and everything else for that matter, weighted or not it is still a RNG loot system.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

And the language is stupid because the loot isn’t random and is weighted. RNG doesn’t tell the whole story.

The language is fine, many players understand that in an RNG loot system some items are common to get and others are rare. This is fairly common and widely excepted knowledge.

The only real exception to this is some algorithms have been proven to have issues when a certain range of account seeds are introduced. A-net has claimed that the RNG loot system does not have this issue.

… A loot system that uses RNG as it’s basis for determining loot is a RNG loot system. Have you played any other games that you pick up loot from? They are all called RNG loot systems unless the drop rate of the item is 100%…

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

The OUTCOME is the same. If, on a 5 sided dice, 1 represents whites, 2 represents blues, 3 represents greens, 4 represents yellows, 5 exotics, OBVIOUSLY the lower numbers will be weighted MORE.

The effect of assigning whites and blues MORE NUMBERS is functionally equivalent as giving them ONE NUMBER but WEIGHTING that number MORE.

Correct, how ever that has LITERALLY NO IMPACT on the fact that 1 is just as likely to come up as 6. I am talking strictly about the random number generated I am not talking about the rewards associated with the number.

So yes even if the odds are higher you will get a lower quality item because the lower quality item has more numbers assigned to it.

So lets use the d6 example, if 1-3 is the lowest teir reward, 4-5 average, 6 highest: This does not mean that the RNG is not random, it does not mean that you are more likely to roll 1 then you are a 6. It means that roughly half the time you will be likely to receive the lower teir reward, because you rolled a 1, a 2, or a 3. Your chance of rolling a 1 a 2 or a 3 are no different then rolling a 6, this IS how most rng loot systems work.

I’ve asked before, Nevets; do you believe that GW2 has literally no RNG loot system in place? According to what you have said it’s not random unless every outcome has the same chance, so if the RNG “worked” you should have the same chance of getting a precursor as you do a green. Is this what you are saying?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Like, I understand what everyone is saying. The game rolls a random number, and then the loot tables are weighted. But because the loot tables are weighted, it’s the same as if you had a weighted dice.

No it is not the same. If you have a weighted dice the odds of getting the fixed roll increase. While the odds of getting other numbers decreases.

The loot tables have absolutely no impact on the rolls you receive. if 90 is worth more then 6 that has literally no impact on you rolling a 90 or a 6. So the RNG number is NOT weighted it’s not like a weighted dice. You are more likely to receive a certain item as a reward, however you are not more likely to roll a certain number over any other certain number.

Wait what? why would I say the dice is not weighted and thus is not random? What in the world are you talking about?

How is that the same thing as what I said… I simply said if you randomly generate a number from 1-100 the odds of getting one number are the same as the odds of getting another number.

One number may be more valuable then the other, but the value of the number has nothing to do with the odds of the number showing up.

LOL Are you serious?

The odds of rolling any number 50 and down are EXACTLY the same as rolling 100. How are the odds of rolling any said number weighted?

The weighted factor comes in AFTER to determine the value of the roll.

Would you claim the loot system in GW2 is not a RNG loot system because a precursor is more rare then a masterwork??

Wow I would love that! (To be honest I didn’t even know about the randomize finisher option till I saw this). Would give me a reason to grab a few extra finishers

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Random means equal chance at each outcome. If there are 4 numbers for a given ring and one number for another, it’s the functional equivalent of a weighted number generator.

Definition of random in English:
adjective
1Made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision
1.1 Statistics Governed by or involving equal chances for each item.
2 informal Odd, unusual, or unexpected: I find it impossible to not laugh at such a random guy

Refer to definition 1 of the dictionary link you provided. That is what a RNG loot system does. It does NOT mean all odds are equal.

Keep in mind, the RNG is actually 100% equal… What number you get from x-z is the same, The value of the number may not be, but the chance of getting any number is…

For example: from 1-100,

rolling 1-50 earns you nothing
rolling 51-70 earns you a blue
rolling 71-85 earns you a green
rolling 86-96 earns you a yellow
rolling 97-100 earns you an orange
rolling 101 earns you a precursor (sorry couldn’t resist the odds are just so bad)

The odds of player A rolling a 25 is the SAME as the player rolling 100. The value of a 25 is certainly not the value of 100, but the odds of getting that result are infact 100% identical.

Ragnarox.9601:

legendaries lost their legendary title because you can easily buy them from TP. You can see more legendaries then exotic drops nowdays

Hyperbole abounds, but I do agree legendaries are little more then a way to show how much gold you have, not what you have achieved.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

We’ve come to the source of our disagreement. You hold a wrong definition of random.
Fine. As long as we agree that my data give evidence to support that all rings likely don’t drop as we would expect from an even dice roll, then I no longer have any reason to engage with you.

I’d say you hold the wrong definition of RNG loot, or random in the context that it is used in a RNG loot generation system.

But yes, I agree not every drop is evenly weight.

Sometimes I don’t know why I bother either.

If that’s the case, what system that we have is RNG? What system in computer game is RNG? Would it have been better if I said the it’s still RNG based?

I have thought for a second, I just disagree with what you consider RNG loot.

Yep, I did ask you if you had proof buddy, I meant concrete hard evidence that it’s not RNG. You gave your numbers and statistics based on your assumptions. Without A-net disclosing how the rolls for rewards like this are made, it’s all theory.

My last “Bit” did you bother to read it?

I literally said, the odds of getting item A vs getting item B are NOT evenly weighted.

Most of the time in a game like this, RNG means an unpredictable result not it’s 100% even chance.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I don’t think you understand how statistics works. Statistics never gives absolutes.

I’m aware statistics don’t give absolutes, I’m not the one coming here saying here are my numbers this proves it can’t be rng… That’s you.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’ve provided numbers that are astronomically improbably. You’ve provided no numbers.

Other people have provided examples that are astronomically improbable. You’ve provided no numbers.

You have provided numbers based on your assumption of how the system works. The same could be said for other numbers that have been provided. If you look at the screen shot I posted I have plenty of duplicates as well. Does that mean it’s not RNG? Nope it doesn’t.

I haven’t provided numbers because as you stated, unless the devs release info on how it works, it’s all hypothetical. Releasing numbers based on variables that may or may not be correct… May or may not be correct.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Go ahead and shout “RNG” like a religious zealot. I can’t convince you otherwise unless the code for how rewards are generated is released.

It never will be, so we’ll just have to disagree.

Yep, I’ll keep preaching and praying to RNGesus, you keep your tin foil hat at the ready!

_—- responding to next post..

Right so if you have a 26 sided die, you’d need 10 trillion rolls to replicate the EXACT duplication of what you have seen. Would you need 10 trillion rolls for multiple players to get multiple copies of the same ring?

I’d guess the odds are not 100% evenly weighted on getting item a vs getting item b. How ever, even then it’s still RNG.

mulzi.8273:

maybe they should make it so each legendary, when unsheathed, summons a ghost of a person from GW1 that follows the player around for 5 minutes, kneeling down kissing their backsides and telling them how great they are for the entire 5 minutes…

100% signed and supported ~~ Although it would be even more legendary if it were Treahern kneeling down and praising the player constantly, but he would probably end up getting all the credit for anything that happened again….

Charr: Rytlock because he rage quit warrior and rolled a revenant.

Asura: I’m not really sure how I feel about Asura, one of them called me a bookah, I think she was hitting on me…

Human: Kasmeer <3

Sylvari: Caithe, she was my favorite from when I first started playing GW2!

Norn: Legendary svanir shaman, he never gives up, even though hes defeated every few hours by swarms of players

Blacktalon.5681:

I really feel that Legendaries need to be more powerful. More stats, some type of specific power to that item( Ex. Thunderfury had 40%ish chance to proc 5 tornadoes that would attack closest targets, drawing a lot of threat), and overall more damage. IMO, a legendary should do more than 5% extra damage and stats.

So the only way something is “legendary” is if it’s statistically superior? This game is designed around Horizontal Progression. “The end game gear of today, is the end game gear of tomorrow”. If you want vertical progression there are plenty of games out there that offer it, GW2 is not one of them.

I’m extremely happy with the current stats that legendary weapons have. They don’t need to do more damage then ascended, if you don’t think the skin and stat swapping is worth it, then don’t make one.

(I though thunderfury made lighting jump from targets drawing extra agro, don’t remember it ever summoning tornadoes…)

I’m sorry I just don’t agree with you that 4 people should not be able to CC 1 person like that. That’s part of playing as a TEAM, working together and focusing someone down. Granting someone immunity to CC because they got hit with a CC just seems silly/easy mode. Of course people try to maximize hard CC with the amount of block/dodges in the game and everyone having a personal heal killing a CCd target takes much less time.

If you look at some of the recent changes it seems A-net disagrees with you, the stability change clearly shows a desire to reduce the amount of immunity to CC, making when and where you use stability more important. Giving free CC immunity when hit by any form of CC would reduce the value of stability even further.

Have you considered what this would do to stomping? Currently many people interrupt stomping with quick short duration CC. Give players immunity to CC after being hit with any other CC and it makes for some pretty easy stomps. Yes currently many people use stab/evade/other mechanics to avoid CC, however these aren’t always available, but with this CC immunity stab/CC reduction abilities would be up far more often due to not being used neerly as much.

Now onto the diversion thing… Of course I would say that if the three move in and explode and literally CAN’T daze it’s a nerf: IT IS A NERF. I specifically stated the player has set them up so that they do not all go in at the exact same time, so the clones are staggered to create more then 1 daze. If that is no longer possible, all three clones shatter, and the skill goes on full CD how is that not a nerf.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I already linked my thread with my data and statistical analysis. What you do is run a probability analysis on the chances of getting 2 of the same rings back to back. Like I said, you’d need over 10 trillion players to find just ONE instance of my repetitions.

sigh I see you are really driven about this for some reason…. Really no point in arguing about the human desire to identify patters etc, I’m simply saying the system is based on RNG, untill a dev says otherwise anything you prove with your “test” is purely hypothetical.

Are you 100% sure your test shows the true statistics and probability of getting a ring, and getting the duplicate ring?

What scale of fractal are you doing?

Honestly with the total number of ascended rings available. Getting duplicates is hardly a surprise to me.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

How many flips of a coin do you need while only getting heads to say with 95% confidence that the coin is loaded?
The answer is 6.
I provided a much larger sample size in my thread if you want to look.

You are aware that that is probability, it’s not an absolute… If someone flips a coin 10 times it may very well come up heads ALL 10 times, and the coin may be 100% legit.

Would you say someone playing Yahtzee that rolls 5 sixes in one roll must be cheating?

Hmm still not clarified are you use the term CC then Stun then KB/KD. CC = Crowd Controll = applicable to ALL control effects (Stun, KB/KD, Fear, Sink, Float, etc). Stun = specificaly the stunned state/debuff. KB/KD = Knock back/Knock down. Then lighter forms of CC, Daze, Imob, Chill, Crip etc… So to clarify. You are suggesting that this defense or protection be applied after any stun breaker is used, and/or the player has been hit by ANY form of CC?

Like I said, in my opinion if you are the victim of 4+ people hitting you with CC and dps and dieing, odds are you should go down. 1 person should not be able to take 4 people without having to worry about excess lock downs.

Orpheal.8263:

@ Miku
About your daze question, this should answer it very well:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diversion

Daze does not stack in duration. If multiple illusions are targeting a single opponent, the actual duration of daze depends on when each illusion shatters. As a result of this, Diversion is strongest when using a mix of ranged and melee Clones/Phantasms, increasing the likelihood that some impact right away while others need to spend more than 1 second running to the target, causing yet another application.

How does that answer my question, I understand how the shatter works perfectly well. My concern is: How this change would negatively impact the power of this skill. I’m aware daze does not stack, however as the wiki states

“increasing the likelihood that some impact right away while others need to spend more than 1 second running to the target, causing yet another application.”

If the first daze hits and the target receives this CC protection you are talking about, what happens when the other clones run in if timed for the daze to fade befor they connect?

Nanashi.6297:

anything that makes it possible to end a game before it’s over is a bad idea.

People might go afk already but if you give them a chance to leave the game they won’t ever try to win as soon as they are slightly behind. Proof? Just look at any game that has that functionality.

What if it’s a game thats 4v5 or 3v5? 4v5 maybe… 3v5; good luck. I agree having a way to leave the match early when it’s 5v5 could be abused, but when the match is uneven by player number it’s really not that fun.

Also filled it out!

Anyone else noticing a TON of surveys this week?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Miku.6297:

^^; RNG is RNG I keep saving them thinking something good will come of it!

RNG is RNG but the reward generator for fractals is NOT RNG and doesn’t even come close to approximating it.

Do you have proof that it’s not? Besides data generated by others that you look for a pattern in? Prety sure the devs have said it was RNG, as with all RNG systems patterns sometimes seem to appear, and there are always those that defy or break the odds.

It’s possible that there is a flaw in the RNG algorithm causing a hitch, but I highly doubt some dev is sitting there chuckling as he gives you the same ring xD

^^; RNG is RNG I keep saving them thinking something good will come of it!

Well you never know!! A-net might do something nice for everyone that missed it.

It might be the wizard hat, available the first wintersday from the gemstore for free.

Never mind, it is 100% the witch’kitten, mad king’s first vist to LA event. (It’s the belt/buckle around the middle that gives it away) ^^; wizards hat looks almost the same, just doesn’t have the buckle.

OK I’m a bit confused here, so you want this protection to prevent and trigger on stun and daze only? When reading one of your replies you talk about " Hammer Warriors and Guardians that constantly smash you into the ground" I’m no warrior or guardian but don’t these weapons utilize knock back, and knock down, far more then stun and daze? (Thought it was mace/shield war that did stuns). So if this “buff” you want only effects stun and daze, how will that help you against hammers KD/KB?

I would also be concerned about how this would this effect multi-hit daze effects, mesmers third shatter for instance. Also one big benefit of stun/daze abilities is being able to shut down other abilities… Why should players lose that KEY element of counter play because someone else slapped a random stun or daze on the person. How many players actually like the current defiant system in pve? Target gets hit with a CC now no one can CC it till the defiant stacks are taken down is not fun and makes CC more frustrating then fun or engaging to play.

“The hard CCs in this game simply are in their current gameplay mechanisms too punishing due to the ability to permanently use them on targets without any cooldowns”

If someone is getting permanently stunned because 5+ people are hitting them, they should be in trouble, not be able to get away easily because they have CC immunity for a time.

My point about the evasion builds is, simply saying “end regain up 20%” is a HUGE change that would require alot of other counter balance to many/all class to be viable. I was using the “perma evasion” builds as an example that would be blatantly obvious.

Would you mind posting a link to the set up either class uses that “stun locks” you from full hp to downed solo? Also if the target uses any form of stun breaker during any of this.

Orpheal.8263:

If there would be a short immunity to hard ccs after being stunned, then peopel would have at least a chance to get quickly out of the way, before another hard cc can hit them instantly again. ANd this short immunity should come either automatically, like reveal appears automatically after using stealth.
Or it should appear as a consequence of using a Stun Breaker, that using the SB makes you after that temporarely immune to some follow up hard ccs.

I say, thats ANets choice here, what they think would be better game balance wise.
But in my opinion, its definetly something that needs to happen for the sake of this game and especially WvW.

If there was a short immunity to CC after using a stun breaker, wouldn’t that devalue stability? I really don’t see something like this enhancing gameplay… You say it makes for more tactical and skilled combat, I don’t see how gaining a immunity to said effects after breaking one, is more tactful, in-fact it’s less tactful it requires less thought and planning on when you break stun.

Perma stealth was something 1 lone thief could do and continue fairly easily… How many professions can perma stun-lock? Perma fear??
For the endurance regain, you still haven’t answered my question, what happens with when people make neerly perma evade/block/immune builds. Using endurance (20% more then current) + vigor + some classes blocks/evades it would allow some professions to be ridiculously evasive. I don’t really see how it would be fun trying to kill a thief or other bunker/dodge build with 20% MORE end regain.

Hes not mine, it’s from the Cosplay character post…

Goose.5196’s Vivi

Orpheal.8263:

Part 1:
Here are 10 points, which would make the Game in general more balanced for everybody:

1) Nerf Stun, When beign Stunned, you shoudn’t be able to be CC’ed instantly again.
It has to work like Stealth/Reveal. You stun somebody and then you have to wait some time, until you can stun a foe again.

No ty, that’s what we have CC/stun break abilities for.

Orpheal.8263:

2) Increase for everyone the Endurance Regeneration Speed by 20%
Dodging should be possible a bit more frequently to be able to actively mitigate damage.

With 20% extra end regain some classes would become hilariously broken… Classes with long block/dodge/invulns + the extra end would need heavy balance passing in order to not be completely broken.

Orpheal.8263:

5) Automatic Block Skills should block only Frontal Attacks!
Every automatic Block Skill in this Game, that lets you receive 0 Damage over some tiem should block for players Damage only, if it was a Frontal Attack.
These Protection Skills are ridiculous cheesy and Op, if they give a player some kind of “God Mode” for a few seconds that lets them not need to think about any positioning anymore, not to mendiont how ridiculous unrealistic it is to be able to block just magically everythign, even attacks from your behind, which you basicalls couldnt see coming or into your defenseless sides.

Actually this I kind of like! It would add a little bit of presence/awareness play to the current block and a way to counter it.

It’s not true, fractals give most ring stat combos. It’s just an RNG nightmare as to which one you get.

Zania.8461:

Since when do you get sales tax refunds?

Never heard of getting one, but hes not really asking for a sales tax refund, as a buyer he didn’t pay any tax to begin with :/

Zer the tax is for listing and selling, not buying.

5% listing fee 10%exchange fee.

You pay a 5% tax upfront when you list an item
You pay 10% when the item sells

As a buyer you pay 0%