Guild Wars 2

Ragnarox.9601:

Y we have aegis at 50+ sec cd hooray

The passive on aegis is a 40s cooldown and with Communal Defenses, you can give aegis to allies every 15s when blocking an attack via any method.

(edit: 40, not 20 (which is the duration). Still much less than 50 and the rest remains true)

I liked it a lot. It’s more active than it looks like on paper, but not terribly cumbersome. Hitting a power twice when you want the active effect (or 3 times if it is ground-targeted) takes some getting used to. The best part about it is the flexibility.

Well, for all hits to connect, you’d have to run in a straight line directly away from the caster, which kind of reminds me how that darned coyote used to run straight when there was a freight train behind him.

I love this skill, and agree that the cooldown seems a bit low. I’d rather increase the CD modestly than nerf the damage or raise the energy cost if it proves to be out of line.

Herald has perma-swiftness.

Prior to lvl 80, Shiro has quickness on impossible odds and Jalis has a lightning field you can blast for quickness.

Afaik, they make an exception for instruments. Rotation macros are a no-no. The rule I have seen is one function for one button press.

Mazze.4529:

Sugestion: Increase the attack-speed of the hammer autoattack or make it more aoe like. If that would be to powerful, you could reduce the range.

• Please remove weapon swapping. We have the legend swapping and if this isn’t enough, you can give us a increased attack-speed over all weapons.

I’m sorry, but there’s not enough “no” for this post. Hammer AA is very strong already and is a piercing attack (it already has enough AoE). While the attack rate is slow (fitting the weapon), the projectile speed is actually quite good. Reducing the range is a terrible idea.

If you don’t want to use weapon swap, don’t, but kindly don’t ruin the profession for the rest of us. Revenant without weapon swap was vastly inferior.

Thanks for the feedback, gang.

@Rym

on Forced Engagement, the shortest cooldown I could find on a pull was 12s other than a thief ability, so I was assuming (as mentioned in the op) that the cooldown would be increased considerably, so spamming it isn’t an issue and the cost could be lower. I agree that if they decided to keep the low CD a higher energy cost would be needed.

@Terra

Yup, Forced Engagement doesn’t serve a distinct role in most situations, which is why I suggested the pull.

I think you make a fair point with respect to comparing the legends to one another, however, you also have to consider the legend as a whole. Perhaps you are right about Vengeful Hammers being too expensive, but I’d rather have it as a strong defensive utility that justifies the cost than a weaker one you can maintain all the time. So, here’s a thought inspired by your other feedback: keep the cost as is, but remove weakness from inspiring reinforcement and add 1/2-1 sec weakness to each hammer hit.

One thing to keep in mind with Rite of the Great Dwarf: that 50% is NOT protection, it is a unique effect. While I haven’t tested it, it should stack with protection and yield total protection of 66%. Unlike Glint’s active, this has no CD. I’m hesitant to buff it anymore, tbh.

Guardian has aegis, as already mentioned. Revenant has no access to reflects, which is a guardian strength. Right now, guardian has drastically better access to stability, though I am hoping that will change a bit. Revenant does have resistance, but virtually no condition clear, and certainly not group condition clear, something Guardians excel at.

So, what I’m trying to get at, is that they compliment each other more than they conflict. As a Revenant, I’d be thrilled to have a Guardian in the group. And as a Guardian, why wouldn’t I want a Revenant that can increase boon duration by 50%?

Apologies, forgot to mention this was strictly from a PvE perspective. I’ll update the original post. I like Glint/Jalis for PvE but Shiro would be really tough to pass up for PvP.

Forced Engagement definitely needs help. If it were up to me, I’d ditch the skill completely, but I did my best to make a realistic suggestion within the existing framework that would give it more of a purpose.

Stinja.9612:

What mode were you mostly playing OP if i can ask?

Hi everyone. I wanted to really dig into the Jalis legend today. While there are other things that need to be addressed as far as Revenant goes, there are plenty of threads for those issues, but not as much attention on poor Jalis, which could still use a little love.

Roy described Jalis as a “tanky brawler”. This legend offers stability, loads of protection, a strong heal, condition clear, and debuffs like weaken and slow. The emphasis is much more on damage mitigation (aka tanky) than offense. Here are my thoughts and couple of suggestions for Jalis from a PvE perspective.

Soothing Stone

This is a great skill as is. I wouldn’t mind a slight reduction in cast time, but aside from that, it’s perfect.

Inspiring Reinforcement

I get that this utility was overpowered before, but it isn’t worth using now, except for the weakness, since the stability is gone the moment you step off of it and even with Facet of Nature on, you will only have a single stack most of the time. While I think the animation is very cool, it doesn’t keep up with player movement, so it doesn’t function well on the move either. I would like to see this ability function like the stability version of Shadow Refuge, so a party could stack up on it and get 8-10 seconds worth of stability. Increase the cooldown if necessary or make it an upkeep skill that pulses stability. It absolutely needs something different than what we currently have.

Forced Engagement

First things first, cut the energy cost to 20 or 25. Beyond that, I’d like to address the distinct lack of mobility in this legend by adding a pull. Increase cooldown as necessary to compensate for the addition of the pull. Beyond the added utility, I think this change solidifies a role for Forced Engagement as a tool for depleting breakbars. Another possibility to give the skill added functionality would be to move the stun break here from Rite.

Vengeful Hammers

This ability was changed from the previous BWE to give Jalis more of a tanky feel and the result is phenomenal. While you wouldn’t think that the small, incremental heals would be worth much, combined with the damage reduction, it’s actually fairly effective against multiple minor enemies, particularly combined with the Devastation trait line. The damage is likewise modest but adds up, and the energy cost feels right.

(Edit) It was pointed out that the cost is a bit high compared to Glint’s skills. Moving the weakness from Inspiring Reinforcement to here (1/2-1s per hammer hit or something similar) would make this a legend-defining ability and justify the upkeep cost, in my opinion. While that sounds pretty strong, range is limited and you can’t run it indefinitely.

The only issue with this ability is that the hammers get destroyed next to walls, on bridges, or anywhere a valid walking path doesn’t exist (e.g. edge of cliffs). This limits the use of the ability to open spaces and needs a fix.

Rite of the Great Dwarf

I didn’t really know what to think of this skill at first. It sounds powerful, but it is expensive and has a lengthy channel (especially in the previous beta). With the shorter duration that it now has and no cooldown, this feels like it is in a pretty good spot as a powerful defensive buff for you and your party. Note that the damage reduction from Rite stacks with Vengeful Hammers for a total of 60% damage reduction 1-(100*.5*(1-.2)). (Edit: Terra makes a good point below that with the long cast time on this ability, it is rather strange as a stun break, since by the time the cast is finished, most stuns would have ended).

I’ve really enjoyed using this legend, both from range and in melee. I believe that a bit of a reversion on Inspiring Reinforcement and the added utility on Forced Engagement, along with the bug fix to Vengeful Hammers will make this a legend that people will strongly consider when taking on tougher content.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your thoughts.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I agree that the damage should not be reduced. Another recommendation I have heard from others is to reduce the total cast time of the skill. This would make it more bursty, but would also decrease the Rev’s evasion time and (importantly in 1v1), increase the fraction of the damage avoided by using a single dodge. This would encourage the Rev to bait out dodges before using UA and would reward opponents for saving endurance to dodge UA.

appreciate the thoughtful input. This seems like an interesting option.

Huh. Interesting. Thanks.

Edit: you’re absolutely right. I was so focused on the combat log before I didn’t notice. But I am definitely seeing the hits from both the major and minor traits in devastation.

radioAspen.6829:

And all in all it just feels better. Herald is what made Revenant “click” for me, but I can’t imagine playing the class without it…

Yup. Before Herald was announced, I liked the Revenant, but it felt like something was missing in the previous beta test.

Kronos.2560:

He is correct. The hammers double/triple siphon per hit. It’s a fantastic tank build, if only the hammers didn’t randomly disappear when they hit anything cept mobs…

Clarify please. I tried applying vulnerability and couldn’t find indication that either of the siphons from devastation were working. We’re you looking on screen or in the log?

fluidmonolith.3584:

the new hammers are very helpful at providing tankiness and, when paired with devastation, they trigger life siphoning on vulnerable foes which almost doubles their damage output…

I can’t find any evidence of this in the combat log (is neither the damage nor the heal listed?). You sure you weren’t seeing the healing the hammers provide now?

Cruens.1640:

I welcome your attitude to my suggestion. I agree there are certain specs that can provide party-wide permanent Fury other than Revenant, I think of Ele’s with the Fire trait-line.

I do appreciate that you’re engaging in a reasonable conversation here. If I came across as defensive/hostile, my apologies. There have been more than a few “nerf Revenant” posts this weekend.

On topic, I agree you’ve got a point with respect to out-of combat. I think slight tweaks to duration would have a much larger impact than one might think (because of F2 duration boost and pulse frequency) and can address the issue. But I reiterate that increasing the cost on the upkeep skills would gut the profession and is not the way to go.

Rym.1469:

Unrelenting Assault follows everywhere you go. For 2s, you’re basically tied to your chosen target. I managed to follow other Revenant spamming Phase Traversal on WvW with it, traveling about 4000 units in total from my initial position.

I had wondered about that. If that is true, why not give it a max range it can travel once the initial effect begins, like 1000 or something like that?

Tora.7214:

but your suggestion doesnt take the pve aspect of the game on count and would kitten the skill badly in HoT pve content

I don’t see why. More often than not, if you are facing multiple opponents, at least one of them is a vet/champion/elite/etc which you can select as your primary target. The only situation where it would be less effective would be against a swarm of trash (e.g. raptors) where you don’t really need it for damage anyway. If anything, I think the suggestion would actually make the skill better in PvE. Now, if the target of the final attack were random, it would be terrible.

Dojo.1867:

Ye right. Except it is no animation. I want to see you tell your team to stop the burst in time. We talk about instant 4 seconds here. Worst case you run in some cleave.

Your comment just shows that you don’t get why this is too good.

And I’m totally in favor of adding a prominent visual to it. To be really effective, this heal takes timing, especially in PvP. A smart player will try and bait a Revenant opponent into using their heal before unloading on them. and if you’re in a group, if everyone unloads an alpha-strike on a revenant at the same time and they counter it, kudos to them.

You know, I really liked the other thread about Sword 3, where the guy asked “how do you counter this?” rather than complaining about how broken a skill was. Then we can have a productive conversation.

Dojo.1867:

everything else can be fixed by tuning down damage)

(Snip)

The comments in this thread make me glad that you guys don’t balance. So much “no way you nerf the broken stuff I play right now”:

And I’m glad that you don’t, because I don’t want a fun profession to use in PvE to get ruined because of people that can’t be bothered to figure out how to counter It in pvp.

I’m already getting tired of people coming into the Revenant forum and demanding nerfs to skills because they don’t understand how the skills work and got wrecked in pvp. Everything about it is new, so take a little time to understand how it works and how you might counter it before demanding changes.

Dojo.1867:

Let’s be honest here.

I don’t think you really want us to do that. A visual indicator would be fine. Aside from that, it’s fine as is.

I think you get something every 2-3 events, not for every event. If you could choose what you wanted, they wouldn’t be able to offer anything really great.

If they feel a change is necessary, this would certainly be preferable to an overall damage decrease.

Absolutely not. Facets do not need a higher upkeep. As it is you can keep a couple running and still have very low energy gain, which feels great. Any more than it is now and it wouldn’t be worth using them.

You want to lower their ability to generate fury, when there are other professions that can provide permanent fury as well? No thanks. Revenant is useful in groups. Let’s keep it that way.

Sarunei.8057:

Rev has a hard time dealing with the snipers and smokescales

I’d say hammer is the tool of choice for snipers. Use your projectile shield and take them out as quickly as you can. If your shield is on D&D, make use of the evade on hammer 3.

For smokescales, Sword 3 works exactly like their attack and you can use it to avoid the damage.

You really have to be on your toes more than what people are accustomed to. There’s some stuff that can wreck you in a hurry if you are caught unawares.

Kidel.2057:

If you camp glint then you won’t be doing much damage. Glint is for support and boon stacking. Once you have some fury and might you should swap to shiro and use impossible odds to do damage. Quickness + daggers + fury + might > fury + might.

Even Jalis does more damage then Glint if you have the buffs already.

Thanks. Don’t care. I’m happy as is. Doing plenty of damage. And holding the legend swap in reserve for stun break and condition clear is vastly more important to me.

fair enough. Glad you got a chance to try it out.

Hammer is quite strong on a pure power build, especially given the range it has and how much aoe it offers. Sword/shield is a lot of fun. Sword 3 is actually dynamite on a single target since all the hits will be focused there.

Experiment with different facet setups to see what works for you. Today I’ve been running around with F2/swift/might for travel and facing routine enemies (where you don’t really need more than sword AA). For bigger/tougher fights, I like to hit the might & swiftness actives, then switch on the fury facet and go to town.

Glint still needs some work, IMO, but the big draw there is the heal w/ condition clear and the protection on the hammers and elite. I’m staying in Glint most of the time, and when I’m forced out of it, it’s because I need that heal and I’m on the defensive (DPS isn’t the immediate concern), so Jalis is a help.

RE: trait/legend, yeah, it’s not a difficult mistake to make. If you have any other questions, feel free to give me a shout.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

IT IS EQUIPPED 10CHAR

Did you actually read the above sentence?

The legendary Dragon stance is separate from the Herald trait line. You must equip the trait line for the dragon stance to be available, but that does not automatically equip the legend in one of your two slots. Perhaps you should not be so rude and read the response that was trying to help you.

superherofan.8042:

I enjoy the boon sharing bonanza of the facets, but I’m not really using the consume feature because they are all condition based.

Only one of them applies a damaging condition, and that one also applies weakness and chill, which are useful regardless of build.

you need to select the Herald elite spec to use a shield.

The utility skills are specific to each legend. To change utilities, equip a different legend.

I’ve seen the exact same thing with other abilities in the game. Swap with Mesmer sword clones does this. It’s really annoying.

Knighthonor.4061:

How about stun break on Dwarf Heal?
Its one of the two things i like about dwarf. Heal and Hammers…

I’d rather have it on something with a shorter CD and not be forced to burn a heal for stun break if the heal isn’t needed. A stun break somewhere would be nice, though. Inspiring reinforcement would make sense and it needs a major buff anyway.

Knighthonor.4061:

Taunt skill needs a buff to add some kind of useful element to this. Perhaps make it deal heavy damage and transfer damage you take, back to the target, sort of like a buffed up ret boon.

Even then I’d want the cost cut in half.

Kidel.2057:

Jalis hammers are still bugged and useless on bridges or near map obstacles.
Also Elite skill got a nice buff, but the strunbreaker there is kind of luckluster, since it has a huge cost.

And I’m not even bothering using the taunt one. It costs too much. At the moment the only reason to use Jalis is the healing skill, so it’s a wasted legend slot.

I wouldn’t call it a wasted slot, but I agree Jalis still needs a little love

The only problem with UA is when it simply doesn’t work because of uneven terrain. I played PvE all day yesterday and thought it was great. Keep in mind that the evade is an extremely powerful defensive tool.

Don’t run everything all at once and you will be fine.

Trait to clear on switch in invocation. Jalis heal clears 3. Ok most of the time in PvE, but nasty against stuff like tormenters in Verdant Brink that constantly reapply. Mallyx may be pretty important for PvP

Adamantium.3682:

Has anyone reported this as a bug, or could explain to me that it isn’t a bug:

One With Nature (the active of Facet of Nature) does not seem to get the benefit of the Facet of Nature +50% boon duration. All the boons when applied are the same length as the tooltip says they will be, but they should be 50% longer. The buff should not be reflected in the tooltip, but it should be reflected on application and for me it is not.

This may be working as intended, since the +50% effect ends when One with nature is activated.

yup, a few things are funky that way. Sword 3 says things are out of range all the time, even when right next to the enemy.

Kumion.7580:

I think Rev needs and energy restoration trait to make running facets viable. Yes, the actives are good, but if you’re going to support a group with passive buffs then you can’t fight and sustain your energy. A trait for facet-energy-reduction or a trait for incremental energy restoration would really improve the Rev’s ability to be support-focused as Anet seems to want.

I don’t think that will work. I think the whole thing is balanced around having to pick and choose what to run at any given time. I found combat felt pretty good with energy at +2 or even +1 for an extended period if I let it build up for a few seconds at the start of combat. In fact, I would often look down and realize the bar was almost full (keep in mind I didn’t have F2 and I was going out of my way not to simply spam everything).

What I do think still needs work is energy costs/ There are a few that are much too high for what they do, IMO.

Corran.4957:

Yeah I love the heal, you just got to remember the double use (i never use the passive in combat) else you find yourself dead and wondering “wtf happened”

I’ve actually been trying out using the facet, hitting it the first time earlier than I would normally pop a heal.

Corran.4957:

I actually disagree, my way around this is OOC, run nature/fury/swiftness.

This will stack up a ton of fury and swiftness (talking 1m+ if you not fighting for awhile), and then when you enter combat you can just use the actives of fury/swiftness and use the might stacking and still gain energy for weapon skills(or even run regen if you want) … then just use fury/swiftness if for some reason you get low

Agreed. I didn’t have F2, so I was doing it a bit differently, but I was surprised at how often I was activating various things. It’s much more active than I thought it was going to be. Yes, it’s true that you could run around with a couple of facets on all the time, but it’s not remotely the optimal way to do things, IMO. For instance, the active for Facet of Elements is a phenomenal combat opener. Not ever using it is a waste.

Knighthonor.4061:

But that Shield,,,, come on,,, could have been better.

I disagree. It’s fantastic.

Is that we have to wait more than a month to start leveling one. I’m having such a blast, especially with Herald spec. Revenant is like a big bag of toys to play with. There’s a tool for nearly every situation. There may be other professions that can do individual things better, but I just love the flexibility.

In fact, my only gripe at all would probably be with the crazy high cost on Forced Engagement and what I feel was an overcorrection on Inspiring Reinforcement, and I am confident those are still being considered.

October 23rd can’t come soon enough.

I don’t think the break bar is terrible at all. Simply trait for condition removal on Legend swap (and you also get stun break in the Invocation line).

I love the idea, but think it is a bit too intrusive, especially the colored portion in the center. I’d like to have the pulsing colored area in the middle removed and stick to the line art. The line art may also need to have the opacity reduced a bit as well, but I’d like to see the other change first.

Watchwork mining pick is an excellent buy (it gives sprockets from mining). Paid 1000 for mine and don’t regret it a bit.

Altair.8402:

The highest damage “condi” builds isn’t even pure condition damage, but a mix of power and condition damage.

Bingo. A lot of condition builds are hybrids of conditions and regular damage.