Why do people insist on complaining about “uncounterable stuff” on necro.
Every class in the game has uncounterable stuff.
Where is the counterplay to thief steal which ignores LOS, is ranged and is instant?
Why was there such a rush to make dhuumfire have counterplay and yet sigils have zero counterplay turning auto attacks into 5k hits on every power class?
Where is the counter play to incendary power?
Where is the counter play to instant 12k ele spikes?I could go on for ever.
Yet it seems only necro and warrior get nerfed to add “counterplay”. They are fine with mesmer/thief/ele/etc/etc/engineer having uncounterable stuff.
In an ideal world all this uncounterable/passive stuff would be removed. But that is unlikely. So every class should be left “op”
Every class also has an anti-CC trait in the defense trait line like Reaper’s Protection. The issue is that a Necro can augment his fears with Terror/MoT – But the Necro must be good at something right?
This game has too much crap to fix. Instant cast and passive abilities are EVERYWHERE – including but not limited to the Necro
This is badly needed. Sometimes I see people getting stomped to the class-specific trainers. It is sad :\
I read “havoc” and thought I’d be watching a small man team take on larger teams of at least mostly other level 80s and fighting over classic WvWvW objectives. But yeah, five decent level 80 players on voice comms with some direct damage AoEs and some group heals should be able to wipe 3x their numbers of uplevels, especially if they’re disorganized enough to be kited and strung out.
This.
You couldv’e replaced necros with anything there… that group was the very definition of EoTM karma zerglings
Necro is one of the best professions for any PvP/WvW activity as long as you peel and heal for them. In groups you can not really focus one player unless he is terribly out of position.
A necro left to free cast from range with no pressure is quite deadly indeed – the no pressure part is key
Those are also the three best classes in PvE/WvW
Those classes have NUMEROUS ways to create/share boons – unlike the others
Those classes have plenty of combo finishers and fields – unlike the others
BOONS are the main culprit… when you make two classes about debuffing and base the game around buffing up and unleashing damage…
What are you talking about? What part of the game is this true? Condition>Power?
WvW roaming? Sure condi builds are “better” I simply attribute it to the food and perplexity but there are many power builds represented including thieves/warriors whom can almost always reset the fight against a condition build so.. tie?
WvW zerging? We know that is not the case
PvP? Maybe in uncoordinated soloq or hotjoin or duels? I would still argue more people are running celestial/strength builds than rabid/carrion builds.
Seems largely to be even or not more so in favor of power when you factor in upper tier tPvP and PvE where conditions are still largely useless
*And skill 5 just blows chunks. The range sucks. It’s crap for vertical use because it trips up at every kitten rocky outcrop. It’s bunk for fast escape because again, you have to pause to aim. So it’s really only good for chasing down other players in PVP. Too situational. I’m glad it works for the rest of you posting here, but to me it’s just taking up space on my skill bar that could be used for something better. Or at least add a better secondary effect, like AOE damage or vulnerability or something. *
Sorry man
You don’t play thief
I have been trying out something similar but more condition focused in PvP using Settlers Amulet. I have been pleasantly surprised with Unholy Sanctuary. By no means is it perfect but with 3k armor you do become ridiculously tanky.
I think it can work the way you have it set up. I think vital persistance is key to a Spectral/UnholySanctuary build. Unyielding Blast/Death Shiver seem too weak to me. In a condi build you can opt for Reaper’s Protection which is great against CC. Which brings into question whether or not FitG is a good choice for this type of build.
Spectral Attunement/Mastery with Unholy Santuary and or FitG for sure has grabbed my attention for post patch theory crafting
I’ve been here since the Beta. Players like myself rarely post on the forums except when we feel we have something worthwhile to share.
You may not like my idea dancingmonkey, but the reality is that World vs World is not balanced – in any sense of the word. Something must be done (my idea, something else) to change that and move the bar from Sheer Numbers —-———>> to Skill as a deciding factor in matches.
Server stacking is only a symptom of that larger problem.
Would there be a chance (in my above example, 1/55) you would be balanced away from your friends? Yes.
Could you queue back into that borderland immediately after? Of course.
Assuming my idea was implimented, you could always play with your friends:
if you are persistent (via queue) you can play with them;
if you don’t mind EoTM you can play with them;
if you prefer the Sanctum you can play with them.You can play with them in a BL too, you just have to deal with the 1/55 chance.
Isn’t it more fun to be challenged then steamroll?
WE KNOW
Where have you been the past two years? If you ever visited the WvW forums you would know this was complained about for way too long now
Goodluck
Why no MM Necro? After the patch will you be running Spirit Weapon Guard? I want to see more of this team
Did you not have to bug out the system to do it though?
Obviously but we should have not needed to “bug out the system” for years now. This should have been added from day one. The only reason we could not interact while in DS was because DS at one time was our downed state. Which is why it has had so many bugs associated with it over the years. Two years later and I think we can safely say they finally got DS working correctly – We still want healing/siphons in DS however
SoV is the sustain we have all been waiting for! Attrition is here!
Why bring up FitG? It will remain just as lackluster as it is right now.
One primary complaint is the inability to deal with focus fire and CC. Foot in the Grave gives access to tons of stability, and that stab just got WAY more valuable because you can now stomp and res with that stability.
Do you even Necro?
It was possible before this patch. Changes nothing!
Is it just me, or is Arenanet blatantly trying to pin spectral armor to every necro utility bar?
No question it is the best defensive utility for us now
My biggest thing is there is literally no theory crafting necessary for the patch. Nothing changed. I will not be using Unholy Sanctuary because of your stupid added functonality. I will not be using SoV because of one extra second. I will still use my spectral armor – thanks for the buff?
At least they fixed blood magic! oh wait… two years later we have a useless traitline
Yeah… it is nice you made the video and all.
But if you actually think the Necro community did not understand the trait and extensively test it in the last two years… well no.
It has no place as a grandmaster minor in its current state
Necro needs to be more like Warrior
I do not want that cheesy crap anyway
I am not the only one seeing this, right?
Rofl, that made my day.
Warrior = Cheese right?
Actually it is a very well made profession that actually has sustain. Sure it is stronger than a lot of classes thus called “cheese” (usually by players who constantly lose to warriors but i digress)
Point being we want Necro closer to Warr
@Narkodx
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you’re being sarcastic or not.
These suggestions make no sense at all. If you’re for real, have you even thought about these things or are you just typing something as you go along?
Try looking at PvP as objectively as possible, and refrain from craving buffs to your main profession if not necessary.
I’m having a hard time figuring out if you have played this game for more than a month. In fact, have you ever played a Necro? Life is very good in this game when you only play an Ele and Guardian. That’s all you list in your sig.
You will notice I am not the only one who believes that Necro needs extra sustain so sure I am quite serious
Necromancer is straight up BROKEN. It is such a outlier of a class. Ridiculous condition pressure and passive fears. The only class that RELYS on utilities for offense not defense. The only class without blocks vigor etc etc. I am honestly done playing the class anymore it is just ridiculous how they are so different from every class and so limited at the same time.
Well, Hello there mister “My main is definitely Necromancer, and my class needs to be better”.
If necromancers could heal and regen their health? What kind of suggestion is this? You want another warrior running around with 40k HP and high regenaration? There is a reason Necromancers have a second life-bar, and a reason that IT can be gained throughout the fight. That is becasuse rely on something different than Guardians or Eles.Here I am writing posts that call for D/D Ele nerfs (which is my main), while necromancers are claiming they’re UP and needs more sustain?
If you feel useless as a necromancers, you are doing it wrong.If Arenanet eventually buffs conditionmancers in terms of defense, I’ll look back at this thread and have huge grin on my face. Because I’ll know, that yet another unbalance was created by powerhungry people that have no idea what they’re doing.
Nah man. I stopped playing Necro a while back not that it really matters anyway. Conditionmancers defense/sustain is getting buffed regardless of this thread actually and they already claimed to be doing that. Not sure where your assumptions come from though but you look interesting now.
Warrior needs nerf yeah. Celestial D/D ele needs nerf yeah. But ANET won’t be doing that so why can’t I have sustain too?!
I argue for the sake of arguing. I know the power structure in this game and so do most players. Necro is not top 5 classes out of 8. So go ahead claim whatever you want. I will keep looking at my Necro in the login screen and instead click on my warrior slap on my celestial ammy and actually play a sustain class. But I am biased -_-
(edited by Narkodx.1472)
“Necro’s have a lot of hp, and you want sustain?”
When people say this it, it make me wander if they even play the kittening game.
Guards have the lowest hp, and their sustain sucks right? No, because hp=sustain is not true.Necros don’t have blocks, invulnerability, vigor, aegis, good mobility, and almost no access to stability. This means when a team wants to focus a necro, that necro is dead. And being dead is not ideal for the attrition class of guild wars 2.
A big reason why necro get focused is not because its the easiest to kill, its because they are that much of a threat if you don’t focus them.
Any necro that is built for dmg( being a threat)….
Is the easiest class to focus in the game…..its not even debatable.
Obviously. Anyone who plays the class and other classes knows this.
Does Necro have any active defense besides pressing a stun break and entering death shroud to soak damage?
Necro needs to be more like Warrior –
Remove Condition on Lifeblast
Stances/Transformations with immunity to physical/cc/conditions – not 180 sec CD
Better LF generation from Staff/Scepter
Buff to flesh wurm
Give me this and you can have dhuumfire and reapers protection and signet of spite… I do not want that cheesy crap anyway
Anet failed when they made the Necromancer. The Necromancer has become a BURST class. Stack as many condis and fear you 3 times before I get CC’ed and die.
Power is stack as much CC and gain as much LF as possible then start LBing til you die or I die. Of course the stupid Lich gimmick as well.
Any fight over one/two minutes is extremely difficult for a Necro without mobility immunity and sustain.
Straight up nerf. At this time it is essentially 100% torment uptime given you land the skill. It was a bit too much.
It can work. Problem will be conditions. Maybe use signet of stamina?
Reason being your burst skills are hard to hit and activate cleansing ire
The patch will buff this though with AoE Arcing Slice being a better source of cleansing
Exept I hate EoTM. Doubly what it has become. I’m not motivated by easy loot sorry.
You hate it. I hate it. Most forum posters hate it.
But go ahead and click on the little button once you get in game. Most of the players in EoTM do not post/look at forums. Most of the players in GW2 love EoTM.
http://www.alimartell.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Screen-Shot-2013-01-14-at-9.45.23-AM.png
New maps. New Modes. Nothing else is enough
This would be awesome. Now I can block the PvE achievement hunters/hot join heroes.
Also I can block anyone better than me so I won’t have to face them again!
Do you see any problems with your suggestion yet?
You have valid points, however your last comment (not quoted) was unnecessary.
Playing Solo Q will leave you a bit salty sometimes lol
Either way it is a bit of a ridiculous thing to ask. There are like 100 people who PvP regularly. The fact that he acknowledges he gets matched up with the same people again should tell you not enough people play PvP for us to be able to “block” people we dont want to play with.
Population too small. Too easy to exploit.
30k-40k-50k- hell give me 1million HP. That DOES NOT equal sustain. Sustain is the ability to protect/regenerate my HP. Necro is actually horrible at that. Our sustain is non-existent. BUT.. we are the attrition class!? It is really cute tbh. You want sustain? Grab a D/D celestial elementalist. They have less than half the hp of a carrion necro yet they sustain.
Necromancer is straight up BROKEN. It is such a outlier of a class. Ridiculous condition pressure and passive fears. The only class that RELYS on utilities for offense not defense. The only class without blocks vigor etc etc. I am honestly done playing the class anymore it is just ridiculous how they are so different from every class and so limited at the same time.
Tell me how useful a 5k heal on a 25 sec cool down is when you need to refill 30k of hp. Sustain in this game is boons – necro has none worth talking about and healing besides your # 6 ability – necro has the worst options in-game for this
(edited by Narkodx.1472)
This would be awesome. Now I can block the PvE achievement hunters/hot join heroes.
Also I can block anyone better than me so I won’t have to face them again!
Do you see any problems with your suggestion yet?
I wager you would be someone I would block
Assuming this is your first character and you are only level 31 you probably will not see success for a while.. especially as a Thief. Learning curve is steep.. you should try a bunker Warr/Guard type of build to learn PvP while also not getting roflstomped contstantly.
Try S/D build 2/0/0/6/6 zerker ammy and strength runes
I think that walking into a solo queue and expecting to carry it is only going to drive you insane. Really the only thing you can possible do is focus on how well YOU play in any given situation.
Very important for your sanity. I am at a point where I literally laugh at the stupid things people do in solo q rather than attempt to type anything or rage. Smile and shake my head in amusement.
:)
You must be new
Standard condi build indeed – it has been done before
25k in one hit? That is actually nothing especially when you consider it takes 84 seconds
A nice debate on PvE DPS
This build…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Empowering-Wrath-Ascended-Stella-Alamarr/first
…is not new and has been played/talked about for a long time now, yet still claim it as original by me.Finished your sentence for you.
There was this guy in the Thief subforum who claimed to have invented the 2/0/0/6/6 build that was popularized by Sizer. Needless to say he got kitten on and no one gave him the credit or stroking he thought he deserved. In a game with thousands of players and only so many trait combinations it is safe to say NOTHING is original and has been tried before by someone else
Nice video OP
Either celestial/boon stacking needs a nerf or boon denial needs a HUGE buff.
What if Necro/Thief/Mesmer had an ability that did not allow application of any boons for x seconds?
What if Necro/Thief/Mesmer boon removal abilities prioritized Might? Further buffed by lowering CD and upping number of targets?
The point is quite simple and I am more familiar with a Warr but Zerker vs Celestial needs to be toned down because there is no reason to run zerker ammy with a warrior. Equip a bow battle runes strength/hoelbrek runes and you have the same damage as zerker (intelligence sigil helps with damage especially with an axe) with what feels like triple the sustain. I imagine the situation is quite similar with Elementalist.
It is a combination of sustain via celestial as well as damage via might stacking battle sigils strength runes.
It is because Backstab has a cast time !
I used to see this all the time and was wondering wtf is going on…
If you wait until the last second that you are still in stealth the cast time will register you being out of stealth when the BS lands.. it is quite strange beacuse you still get the reveal debuff.. thus it has to be a bug
Either way I stopped using that trait because I usually maximize my time in stealth and wait till the last second to BS which caused this trait to bug out a lot..
Awesome. Simple. Why are we still waiting for something this easy to implement?
Isn’t it amazing how our community comes up with all these game modes that will never be implemented but would otherwise revitalize a dying game!?
It is really THAT simple. How long did it take you to come up with this? 20? maybe 30 minutes?
The community would be overwhelmed with happiness on a change this simple. PvP would be revitalized.
Why after two years we can not have a simple new game mode like this? No new maps needed!
I think it is too late anyway. Whatever they come up with the community will trash them for it and be bored of it in a month.
I would add that lich form will no longer improve power on wells.
Anet will probably do this since they took away the Meteor-Tornado combo from Elementalists
If you want to be useful in WvW and Dungeons then you need to spec for power not conditions. Also since you like the Axe you want to go power.
Try something like this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRLcvSTTjfPBIz46nnU494xMGeZA-jUCBoiCiEGBiIAMBqIaslRFRjVbDTFjIq2cORG0DrWKAmEGB-w
It is an older GvG type of build but it is quite versatile and still relevant for PvE/WvW. You can switch the Knight Armor for Berserker once you get more advanced in skill thus forgoing some defense for offense.
Did you EVER blast the water field?
These are my (serious) predictions for the Necro balance changes. Just getting these recorded now so I can compare things later.
Utilities:
Well of Corruption grants 1% life force per hit (in other words, making the bug it currently has an official part of the skill)
We’ll be “better,” but not in a way that matters.
WoC is currently granting 1% LF per hit?!
Your making a lot of claims here, such as claiming the necromancer is “one of the worst professions atm and in need of some of the largest changes” which is only an unsubstantiated opinion, but your are continuing to push it as your agenda, as if it will convince them to push the day of the updates back just you please you specifically.
Because we’ve seen so many Necromancers in the PvE tournaments right? Bunch of Necromancers were in that All-Star voting weren’t they? ToL completely being dominated by Necromancers comps?
Reality is the only place Necromancer is well off in is WvW zerging. This is an objective fact that can be seen by the desire to bring Necromancers into content, how much they are played, at what level, etc.
I’m not asking for them to buff us to insane levels, I’m only asking that we get the reasonable consideration that they said was the point of these previews. This was supposed to be about feedback, they have given no room for feedback.
Well, maybe there is no feedback. When have they ever changed something that they planned to do based on feedback? (deceptive evasion?) I can not think of any other instances. Just like the CDI maybe this is a nice way of making us think we really have a say and that they implement something called “feedback”
“You guys clearly need to learn what it means to play thief properly without relying on spamming skills or cheesy builds”
This is what i want.
You are clearly inexperienced. No thief spams one skill to kill the opponent. PERIOD
If you die to a thief spamming one skill you know where you are on the skill level totem pole right? The bottom
You guys realize this thread will literally go nowhere right!?
None of you are presenting any thoughtful arguments. They are not going to nerf the profession because you are bad at PvP. If you want to make meaningful changes to the class/game then actually give something back to the profession
6 second cool down or increasing initiative on skills used consecutively is moronic – even if something like that were implemented what will you gjve back? Flat nerfs with no compensation are not happening. L-2-P
sick of thieves trying to justify the ini system by saying other classes can cast more skills per minute then they can. it means nothing
I can press 2 and hit you with a hard hitting skill
you can press 2 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I cant press 2 but I can cast this weak aoe field
you can press 2 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I still cant press 2 but I can cast this slow moving projectile blind
you can press 2 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I can swap weapons and press 2 and hit you with a hard hitting skill
you can press 2 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I cant press 2 but I can cast a boon rip that does low damage
you can press 2 and hit me with a hard hitting skillyou get the picture? now take cast times into account and it gets even worse.
The arguments in this thread are truly golden. This guy has less than 10 hours on thief and less than 100 hours in the game total. No doubt about it
I’m not so much cutting down the changes, as the concept of calling them balance changes.
My main characters are a thief, a necro, and a ranger. I’ve got the others, but none of them have a full set of even exotic armor yet.
.
/thread
Will the Life Force gain on #1 Dagger stay the same? On hit?
Because that would be an interesting buff.
Regarding utilities – not much they can do about them to really shift Necro without overbuffing it 1v1.
If they don’t adress dealing with Death Shroud or expanding it, then this patch won’t affect us too much .
I believe it will remain the same simply because the endurance gain on Wild Strike (Thief dagger auto-attack) was done that way – only the damage will cleave not the benefits of the damage – endurance gain/life force gain
Nice vid mad skills
…Until you face condi class then its time to put some points in acro/sa
The only time I even notice I am taking retaliation damage is on a glass thief against a guardian. Otherwise it is a pretty weak boon
I get the build isn’t as optimal as a full power one would be, but doesn’t it compensate the lack of raw DPS for more survivability and support? Also I dont like being a copycat of others standard builds.. its just boring
Of course you have more support/survivability – Venomous Aura is about as supportive as it gets for a thief. Condition builds obviously have more survivability than full power glass cannon builds.
People are not trying to dissuade you from running the build. In fact, most veteran thieves at one point in time ran this build. I ran it for a long time with my MM Necro buddy and it was hilarious to say the least. It simply has too many limitations which as you play more you will become aware of. Goodluck Have fun!
EDIT – Precision will benefit you to have EARTH sigils not Geomancer sigils – Geo procs on weapon swap earth procs on criticals. Either way Rabid is not the best option for a Thief because earth does not add that much more damage and having some vitality/healing power will greatly enhances your survivability as opposed to a minor increase in damage from precision
(edited by Narkodx.1472)
The build is fine but condition thief does not really benefit from precision so you can switch your armor/weapons to all dire or even throw in some healing power combinations shamans/settlers
The thing with venom share in WvW is that you are reliant on teammates. You have no mobility/stun breaks/stealth utilities. So in small havoc groups 5+ this build is very effective and can see great results.
Here is where the problems start – In WvW you simply will not be able to solo roam with that kind of build – does not matter if that is not your goal. In large zerg fights conditions are rendered ineffective due to massive cleansing from Guardians/War Horn Warriors. Dungeons you will see the condition cap of 25 render a lot of your damage ineffective.
Bottom Line – It is a “niche” build; Only effective in certain situations – small scale pvp
Even in those situations a power build will be more effective. Dungeons/PvE is all about high power damage this build has no real place there. BUT.. having said all that if you like the playstyle continue to use it at least Anet is acknowledging it needs buffs.