Guild Wars 2

You either gotta decide to go all in on condi or all in on power – trading PTV for Dire does not make much sense if your build is all Wells which should focus on power

Link us a full build using the editor

yolo swaggins.2570:

From what I saw, the only reason why those players lost were because they were bunkers fighting a condition bunker spec. While the bunkers were not dealing much damage, they were dying to the conditions that bypassed their toughness. So not only were they not dealing much damage but their armor didn’t matter. Basically the players who were losing were fighting bare.

Plus the fact they were all bads also helps

If deathshroud is useless and you never use it then you have been doing it wrong this entire time

Another thing, the best time to use Locust Swarm – at least in my opinion of course – is right before you enter DS so you get some LF and tank some hits

Holl.3109:

Thank you CntrlAltDefeat for looking past the celestial part of this build. Glad you enjoy playing it as much as I do. 2 v 1’s are very possible with this build, if they aren’t too bursts that is. And with the warhorn trait you have 22 1/2 sec swiftN on 24 sec CD. And having locust swarm up 15/24 is good enough for me, but like you said, you like it on demand which is fine [although I would switch out spectral attunement for something else if you only have 1 spectral skill.

Other commenters:
Most of you consider celestial a problem, which it can be, but isn’t. Sure healing power isn’t used a lot in the build, which I get, but still you got 2000+ other stats that aren’t wasted.
But, looking past celestial, any other comments? I feel this build is very viable and has no real weaknesses other that boon removal, which isn’t too common.

I do not think it is bad, not the trait distribution/selection – I actually like it a lot

What I do not like is the amulet – Celestial does not give enough condi pressure to kill anything with cleansing and your physical dmg is not enough to down a true bunker like Soldier Hambow… 3k Lifeblasts won’t cut it which is about the most you will hit them for

I like this build with zerker – more sustain than 6/x/x/x/6
I even tried it with Carrion but instead I took PoC and Terror – Pretty much the same physical dmg as Celestial but a TON more condition dmg – I used Sce/Dagger Axe/WH

Overall it is good though +1

Gold? Bring out the real currency man

Everyone who posts an X is OP thread got beat in PvP or WvW and assumes they are the best player on earth when they most likely suck – How can I lose!?

You want people to stop exaggerating and calling everything OP right? Me too

But will it happen? Coming Soon™

I’m not sure what you’re getting at.. I think you’re just a little frustrated and probably rusty or something.

Power Ranger is not a “hard counter” to anything really… definitely not a condition necro considering if the power ranger is built 6/6/x/x/x then he has minimal condition cleansing.. that being said it is not the easiest fight for a Necro assuming the Ranger has a positional advantage which is what you need to avoid

The only hard counter is diamond skin ele – which is clearly not that popular for many reasons – zerker stance does not last forever and warriors in general are easier to overload with condis since the latest patch

Hardcounters do suck but I do not see many at all – there are difficult matchups that favor one build over another but nothing is unbeatable

Huh? How do you know they are raising the caps?

Wait.. are you telling me a LB zerker ranger died to a thief?
He did not just stand there as you pressed 2?
Pics or it didn’t happen

PvE? WvW? Where do you want to use this build and for what purpose?

You’re right that blood is currently useless – so why are you trying to make a siphon build aka blood build

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Guide-DPS-Necro-for-PvE/page/3#post4418242

That is the best PvE guide for max damage using daggers

•This transform no longer increases power levels exponentially. The damage of skills in this transform has been adjusted to compensate.

What this means is “doing the same damage as before”

Tell us what you really mean though – Lich is OP right?

It wasn’t really “nerfed” Lich used to previously increase your stats power/precision giving you insane scaling on Chill of Death and Air/Fire runes – The base dmg of the skills was increased to compensate so it essentially does the same amount of dmg as before

How about superspeed/quickness for like… 2 seconds?

Would this help with Lifeblast builds?

Jelzouki.4128:

Please post any changes to the necromancer class that you would like to see put into effect in this thread.

Let’s try and make them realistic. These changes need to help the class as a whole and they need to be focused on helping the necromancer find its place in tpvp.

1. Give the stability from flesh golem to the player instead.
2. Make plague form a corruption skill. Reduce cool down to 120 seconds.
3. Remove the cast time from Epidemic (it is too easy to miss the opportunity to capitalize on this skills affects)
4. When using the healing skill “Consume Conditions”, gain 5% life force for each condition consumed, if no conditions are consumed gain a random boon. (Any boon really).
While rolling the current meta condi build for necromancer, you easily find yourself not reaching over 25% life force. If you try to roll a build that gains life force more efficiently, your team and yourself suffers because you simply don’t play an effective role in tpvp now; too many ultimatums when choosing your build as a necromancer. Most of the traits are really separate in terms of synergy.

These are just a few of the much needed changes for necromancer. Please make your changes realistic, and they must additionally address a certain necromancer problem. I didn’t create this thread for people to come up with new auto win buttons; let’s build off of what we already have, just like I did above.

Realistic eh? Flesh Golem giving us stability is never going to happen – We already have stab from the other elites – Stability every 40 seconds from charge? Yea right I wish

Plague a corruption skill? Sure but it’s a transform – This skill is overall pretty darn good right now I do not think it needs anything

Epidemic needs nothing – It is not really all that useful in PvP and in WvW when you are hiding behind a zerg who cares if it has a cast time – Keep in mind they would just up the cooldown to compensate – no thx

Buffing Consume Conditions is definitely not where we need to go when we have garbage like Signet of Vampirism

Overall, 2/10
This is not what Necromancer needs nor are you looking in the right places for buffs – Here is a few hints —> BLOOD MAGIC Siphoning and Heals in Deathshroud

I would love it… but I do not think it would happen. Axe would be the best Lifeforce generating weapon by far and no other weapon has two sources of LF.

If I understand you correctly axe autoattack would become a three hit chain where only the third hit generates LF? If so I do not think it would be OP as it can be countered and would make axe have a niche as the best LF generating weapon – Maybe axe training would alter the AA and have it function in this manner? At least we would have to sacrifice something like chill of death

Spiteful Marks is crap. Unholy Sanctuary is… questionable

You’re using condition weapons in a powerbuild – You can keep the staff but that scepter is useless without condition damage switch it for an axe/dagger then use chill of death or axe training

What are you using this build for? PvE PvP WvW?

Eurantien.4632:

You press W until you get close. Then you press your condition skill. Then you press S and back up and then press Q to get behind a wall. Then they heal. Then you press E to get out from behind the wall. Press W to move forward again to get close. Then you press your condition skill. Then you repeat the steps to get behind the wall. Repeat. Pretty soon they will be dead.

You’re welcome.

Which button is condition skill on D/P zerker thief?

Pay To Win !? You could not have made a minor thing look more dramatic – good job

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Joakimforslund.8473:

It’s impossible to kill a bunker engi, even 2vs1 its hard to kill them. I’m facing a bunker engi almost every game and they can’t die for real… NERF NOW A-NET!!!!

Do you mean impossible in general or impossible just for you?

ummm… if he can not kill it obviously no one else can!

If we had attrition and more sustain I think celestial builds will work better for Necromancers

I think there is a reason our two most viable PvP builds are centered on burst – either condi burst and fear or power burst with lich/wells/lifeblast

I have tried many celestial builds on Necro and the lack of killing power is what the issue is – Duel a Cele Ele or a Soldier Hambow and you will see what I mean

Mahkno.7593:

Thanks for the quick and thorough feedback!

Yes, it’s a backstab-centered play style and I guess the only reason I was questioning was because I couldn’t figure out if critting air/fire all the time (well 70%) plus the damage from executioner in build A would make it the more powerful of the two.

Much appreciated.

No problem

One last thing you should consider -Strength Runes – In your high crit chance build it can give you a substantial boost to power/might

Stealth builds have good access to might from the 5th trait in Shadow Arts 2might per stealth entry
Crit Strikes you can also trait Signets of Power and with just one signet you get ~50% uptime on 5 might stacks
Also two points in acro can get you inertia of power for more might

Another thing to consider is high fury uptime for your lower crit chance build- Furious Retaliation in CS or two points in Trickery for Thrill of the Crime also gives you Fury

Ok so you are deciding between two different things essentially

Executioner v Hidden Killer and Power v Crit Chance

Both are related but it comes to preference I will give you an example – Is most of your damage coming from Backstab? You want hidden killer – thus probably sacrificing some crit chance in exchange for power – making sure when you land your backstab it always crits and does a ton of dmg

For example a Thief using D/P and S/D on weapon swap is constantly landing non-stealth attacks thus can use Executioner more effectively and opt for a higher crit chance

In the end both builds you linked will work the only way to know which is best is to try them out for yourself – First build will have more sustained damage outside of backstab while the second will have larger burst damage via backstab

Dual Dagger Power Builds tend to go for Hidden Killer and max burst via backstab

You’re going to need to put the entire build in a build editor so we can make a comparison – your information is too vague

How are you getting 2757 power? Might/signet/bloodlust? Seems too high without some buffs

It would need an ICD or a per target limit

You can evade 7 people’s attacks by pressing pistol whip once for example

Or potentially evade like 6-7 times in a row with felines grace + endurance signet + pistol whip or other evade skills

Is this not the best $60 you ever spent?

Once I spent $60 on a steak and it just came out the other end

This $60 has lasted me 2+ years

But yeah everything you said is true

All movement skills bug out with low fps/ping – many times I will infil signet into heartseeker and immediately get rubberbanded to original position – same thing with steal + HS

I like most of you guys have been experimenting with axe but the clunkiness is too much in this fast-paced game – the auto attack is definitely better and more smooth now but still lack luster damage slow vuln stacking and low dmg makes you never want to use it

Finishers would be nice blast for #3 whirl for #2 and cleave/splash damage for #1 – This would make it a lot more viable

Roe.3679:

Early Morning Riser.1240:

So how did this work out? I hope you kicked some kitten!

I was able to make it afterall (crisis averted). First game was myself, NeXeD, Narkodx, Minas and Zombify – we kept it close but ended up losing. The other team had 1 or 2 diamond skin eles and used them well. They were on to our shenanigans. Zombify had to go and we picked up a pug necro, and we ended up winning the next match pretty handily, but they also seemed aware that we were slow and had sent a lot of people far, which worked for them at first.

Pretty funny starting a match with 80% life force and running to mid in a locust swarm that would’ve made the Bible, though. It was pretty fun but I do think the 5 necros made it obvious that we would be asking for certain strategies used against us.

I would do it again for sure.

Yep, very fun I would do it again for sure!

Rotating is hard with 5 Necros but our team fights at mid were mostly a blow out – massive AoE pressure/condis/lich

High mobility teams and diamond skin eles are probably hard counters to the 5 man necro teams but I think we can work around that with possible adding an MM to guard home point

I am on most nights 7-12 EST so be sure to send me a whisp anytime!

Lachanche.6859:

I see you have not experienced what i am talking about, let me break it down for you.
If you push far you take a gamble. Will our close holder go mid so that we can have 1v1 + 4v4 or will he stay close so that we have 1v1 + 3v4 ?
If you win your gamble then it’s a 50% 50% situation, if you lose your gamble the game is lost.
No way your team will regroup, everyone will keep rushing one by one and by going far you will have single handedly destroyed every chance your team had to win.

So it’s either a 50% 50% split where you could win far by leaving close undefended or a 100% certain defeat situation.

Why would you take such a risk ? It’s not something you can afford in solo queue.
Even if you are a thief you are much better attacking a priority target like a necro or a mesmer on mid, this way your team is more likely to win the teamfight and you avoid to bet the outcome of the entire match in the first minute of the game.

HOWEVER, i was talking about an even more specific situation, a situation where someone from your team stubbornly keeps going far, he doesn’t care whether your team already has 2 points or if his presence is needed elsewhere, he just wants to win that duel with the far holder and he loses everytime.

This is something you should never do regardless of whatever.

this
pretty
much
nailed
it

Everyone presenting situations where it is advantageous to rush far at the beginning are probably not queing when I am because that never happens

Don’t get me wrong I am not disagreeing it can be a viable strategy and can carry a team to victory in solo q – This is like winning a match when it is 4v5 which I did last night (all four of our players had 200+ points) – The reality is the players going far are usually costing their team the game not helping just like you should expect to lose a 4v5 – there are outliers to everything

I also played a match last night where no one went to the home point the entire game and just zerged far/mid – braindead players are OP

EoTM single handedly destroyed WvW – At the time we had ques and there was a need to relieve that so players had something to do while they waited
The issue is that there is no longer ques and there is no longer an incentive to do regular WvW

-Constantly outmanned because you are on low pop. server? Goto EoTM
-Wanna level up your alt? Goto EotM
-Want better rewards? Goto EotM
-Want to just follow a huge zerg around? Goto EotM

It has divided a dwindling population and creates too many incentives especially for newer players – it is killing WvW

I would rather have 4 Thieves than 4 Noobs – Can we have an anti-noob stacking filter?

Common sense is apparently too much to ask indeed

When I press the Solo Q button I expect the WORST

So should you, the game becomes easier to deal with

I agree (not)

What will you do to compensate the Thief?

Or is it just another QQ post?

Why do siphons need to even do damage? Armor ignoring damage is quite good/useful sure but it is negligible and we already have condition damage for that

I believe this holds siphons back – just give me bigger heals and no damage

Battle Energy Fire Air Blood Doom Intelligence Strength Geomancy

How about the fact these are pretty much the only sigils used? Either nerf these or buff everything else

The disparity between these sigils and the other “niche” sigils is too high

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I usually don’t read walls of text like this
and I didn’t
keep QQing

I did read it and the wall of text is pretty clear and logical.
However, i am just hoping someone of influence reads it so it won’t be of waste

This entire thread is a complete and utter waste

You think a dev will read this? LOL

Devs will look at the upcoming tournaments and see plenty of Necros – thats all we need to see all other arguments are pointless

The best part of this thread is where he claims his experience is from 1v1 duels – which is where Necro is actually strongest

The issues arise when you encounter a 5v5 situation and you’re getting focus fired

I also liked when he said nightmare runes are only available in PvP – Lets me know you are actually a new player who has no clue

+10000

Amazing

How can you have a throw dagger and cloak and dagger when its sword OH…

I have definitely seen it as a buff especially for cleaving the downed and a rezzer

Also taking camps faster

Without Shadows Embrace at minimum you got no chance

You just straight up buffed everything

0% chance

Brujeria.7536:

Narkodx.1472:

HEY GUYS

There are actual Necromancers on top teams in PvP now

WAIT!

We are weak and useless

WTF?

Best part of this useless thread –
Ovid says that if you think Necro is useless and not strong or viable it is a L2P issue
Brujeria says that if you think Necro is completely fine you are not experienced enough and need to L2P

Second best part of this useless thread – Mesmer 3rd auto attack chain on the sword counts as a viable and more powerful boon removal than anything Necro has

I usually dont reply to posts like this since your post alone is enough proof that you have no idea about game designs, balance or archetypes, but as im in the mood right now i still do it.

Necromancer currently has one viable build that is mostly used and rather reliable in pvp. This build is based around terror, fear and spike damage. Most burst and a lot of potential danger is caused by 2 passive procs, traits and runes. Only because a class has one really viable build for pvp is not proof that a class is fine. GW2 is designed against “single purpose” professions, every profession should be able to fill any role in their own style – the key factors, how a certain profession deals DD, or supports might be completly different. The necromancer was often described as an aggressive attrition style, tanky fighter with good self sustain. The only viable meta build is neither attrition, neither tanky, neither sustain heavy. Its a simple condi burst build that works because of passive procs. The point is clear that necromancers are rather strong in this role, but thats the only role, and this role does not even meet the criteria the class should be constructed around.

Players can make most things work, the bigger question is, how are things designed and balanced, what classes does exceed in a situation, with a build style within the summary of all professions and available builds, and then add the challenge of staying true to the class design and philosopy.

Most necromancer skills that are really potent arent “weak” at all, they just are sitting duck style skills, rather unreliable and not aggressive, rather reactive – things like corrupt boon, putrid mark etc. are strong if they work well, but if they work well they dont do it in a way they should be supposed to based on the class description – the current meta is most likely burst, recover, burst recover, maybe disengage after big CDs are blown, then rinse and repeat. Necromancers dont fit into this meta since they have no reliable means to do their thing, they cant apply their intended playstyle aggressive enough so the only viable option is to burst down the enemy faster as they can burst down you – thats applied through mostly passive means, “random passive proc situations” in a terror build.

In the current pvp mindset this even favours the necromancer a bit, as its about contesting points, sizewise limited areas where the enemy is forced to get up close, giving the necromancer a possible place in teamfights with proper positioning, but once ANY other gamemode (deathmatch, arena, return a flag, etc.) Necromancers will fall off even more as it has no downside for other professions to disengage on will.

I usually don’t read walls of text like this

and I didn’t

keep QQing

HEY GUYS

There are actual Necromancers on top teams in PvP now

WAIT!

We are weak and useless

WTF?

Best part of this useless thread –
Ovid says that if you think Necro is useless and not strong or viable it is a L2P issue
Brujeria says that if you think Necro is completely fine you are not experienced enough and need to L2P

Second best part of this useless thread – Mesmer 3rd auto attack chain on the sword counts as a viable and more powerful boon removal than anything Necro has

flow.6043:

Blackmoa.3186:

so necro atm:

worst mobility
worst support
worst survivability
worst damage
3rd best boon removal

discuss

The only thing I can agree on is the worst mobility. The rest is somewhere between debatable and definitely not true.

Narkodx.1472:

Ignoring Conquest the meta 0/6/4/0/4 Necro build can defeat anything in a pure 1v1 duel

This build isn’t even the strongest 1v1 build among necros. And there are lots of builds on other classes that can give it a very hard time.
Ultimately it comes down to the player’s skill anyway.

I think it is the best OVERALL dueling build – Opinion neither of us can probably prove

The best dueling build for a Necro depends on your opponents build – Buildwars

In the end we can both agree it comes down to player skill indeed

Carrion much better – Thief has no need for crit in a condi build

Apokriphos.7042:

According to the Q/A response I got, the developers balance the classes using strictly team Pvp. Using this rationale, Necromancers are supposedly most balanced there.

I don’t agree with that assessment or the approach in general; ignoring all other game modes for balance purposes seems ridiculous in any game, let alone GW2.

The current meta tPvp necro build running terror is strong enough to be ‘competitive’ at higher end tPvp. It relies on a lot of automatic fear procs, supported by the same mindset that gave us the recently buffed Nightmare Runes. However, other classes with higher potential skill caps will dominate said necro, given both players are equally skilled, because our strength is balanced around those involuntary procs.

What are you talking about? All other classes given equal skill can beat a Necro? what builds? this statement is way too general to make any conclusions… I think the meta necro build is actually one of the best builds strictly speaking in a 1v1 duel – but obviously thats not the only thing that counts in the conquest game

Ignoring Conquest the meta 0/6/4/0/4 Necro build can defeat anything in a pure 1v1 duel – the classes ultimate weakness comes when we include capture points and multiple opponents in a team fight situation

Yes all class balance is with tPvP in mind – which is how it should be the game should not be balanced for 1v1 or WvW roaming or Pve or anything else besdies the only competitive format we have – Class balance should only be for competitive formats