Guild Wars 2

You know whats funny about this? Even Mes and Ele is still broken easy mode in 1v1s or 3v3s.

The problem lies in their evade frame mechanics, those take no skill no matter how you look at it.

DPS Warrior is THE better class for when you are good at the game in Conquest. Guardian is just low skill floor low skill cap, there’s not much to learn. Warrior mobility and damage has out-play potential though.

That IS the challenge, hitting the long casting times.

Warrior isn’t effective because you just can’t do it.

Fail build…

15chars

Liam McColgan.7689:

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Read what I just said. Tage was destroying them in team fights, so they have to out-rotate them. They had Denshee to mirror an ele who will back cap, and then they have Tage in the team fights where he is SO MUCH STRONGER than either phanta or wakkey. Key word is TEAM FIGHTS, oRNG could not force it. They had the mobility which is Denshee to mirror 1 D/D ele, and then all they had to do was cap 2 points and ignore the 3rd.

oRNG had the cards to win and they showed it by putting Abjured in the lower bracket. They just played very badly on the finals. I don’t know why I have to teach rotations to a person who will NEVER understand why oRNG had the upperhand realistically.

JaeleCt.3967:

necro’s get 2 health bars, why cant other professions get them too? not fair.
Wars get adrenaline that gives them great regen while maxed, why cant other professions get that too? not fair.
guards get a ton of protection boons, blocks and heals, why cant other professions have that too? not fair.
id keep going but im getting bored, and i think i made my point….

Your arguments are pretty fail, no offense. You literally compared Adrenal Health to death shroud.

@tobascodagama.2961

You do realize that it takes no skill to land Moa if you knew how to dodge count and wait out stability with diversion or daze mantra right? And you have two chances to land it because continuum shift.

Also, chronomancer makes the stun signet super broken it’s not even funny. It is the most over-powered stun lock that I’ve ever seen in my life on top of the reset.

If Mesmer skills took any effort to land, chrono would be balanced.

The “double ele” thing is such a bad excuse. It’s as if Noscoc could do anything against that Warrior + Guardian cheese that oRNG did in the first set. Abjured had a NECRO people, and that was against Warrior + Guard.

oRNG got outplayed hard, that’s all that happened in the finals. Comp has NOTHING to do with it when oRNG caused Abjured to go to the lower bracket. In fact, Abjured actually had the less cheesy comp compared to oRNG.

oRNG beat them the first few times because of Warrior and Guard combo. Rom was just getting carried by Tage res and support, he literally got away with spamming 1 on Rampage with the set where they put Abjured on the lower bracket.

Sure double Ele is stupidly strong but Abjured CANNOT afford to fight the Warrior + Guardian combo. They have lost the first set because they chose to fight Rom and Tage together. Honestly, Warrior is stupidly strong and it doesn’t matter how bad you are if you have a strong Bunker Guardian like Tage giving you shouts to carry you.

More importantly, here’s what happened to the next 2 sets with oRNG and Abjured:

Pay attention to what Chaith said btw, “we started doing our own thing” after the TCG game meaning they did a 3 point push and applied that vs. oRNG. This is what oRNG did wrong, they CANNOT afford to do 3 points and should only do 2 points and KEEP THOSE TWO POINTS because if their forces (namely the Warrior + Guard) are separated they CANNOT win.

It is a team mistake on oRNG’s part to play Abjured’s game which is 3 points because now ROM can’t do anything if they separate Tage from him and ROM just got destroyed so much when he separated from Tage. A team fight comp like oRNG can only afford to do 2 points and make sure they win team fights.

TL;DR The fact that Tage had to be with ROM really bit them hard.

P.S It’s not about Warrior being unviable either. It is a mechanical issue in a sense because you need it A LOT on Warrior, something that ROM kinda didn’t have. You see him missing Earth Shakers a lot, not using signet to protect from blind for when it counts when he has Tage sustain anyways, losing track of dodge count, etc.

Flame bait. But obviously not from EU IMO.

Like yeah, Ranger definitely is UP right now but THAT IS BALANCED because Ranger mechanics are just so low-risk. Why should something that has “low-risk” be viable?

You really want Spirit Ranger to come back? In-fact that Quickness res/stomp as a zerker should be a god sent to you Ranger mains. But I will say push for a REWORK instead of a buff.

The sad part about EU is that, Warrior + Guardian counters Nos and is just as much of an easy mode combo as Double Ele. The game was essentially a 4v5 until Abjured learned how to out-rotate EU’s comp and take advantage of their inferior individual mechanics. Like no offense to ROM, but if you need a Guardian to be effective on Warrior then you were NEVER a good Warrior at all. That’s a big part of why ORNG lost.

GG Abjured. Well-played out-played.

Complain more.. winning is winning. EU needs to stop being salty considering Warrior + Guardian is just as cheesy of a combo as Double Ele. ROM just wasn’t a good Warrior, EU has no good Warriors.

Ravenmoon.5318:

It was pretty boring. Broken cele ele ftw … great pride and kitten.

There were exactly 0 interesting moments from Abjured. Most boring team worldwide.

You act as if Guardian + Warrior is anything hard anyways. But yeah Tage did well, ROM isn’t a good Warrior. None of the Warriors in EU are good.

What is the point of buffing ranger when it’s going to be anti-fun at it’s current state? Ranger isn’t a viable class but it also doesn’t take skill to play and is just way too forgiving in design. Look at spirit ranger as an example.

What you Ranger mains should be asking for is a REWORK not a buff. Make ranger HARD TO PLAY like a dota-character type of pet system.

P.S they don’t have team fight cleave, sure. But they have access to quickness stomps and res.

EremiteAngel.9765:

learn what it does before asking for it to be changed!

The hypocrisy is just insane on the people defending Mesmer, sigh.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Chronomancer’s actually in a good spot at the moment. It’s fairly balanced compared to other Mesmer specs, but it does have more room for skilled play with well timed Continuum Splits.

Just another big fail. Why do people think just because it’s D/D ele balanced, it means its healthy for the game?

This mentality will kill the game imo, no offense. It isn’t L2P when AI’s are baiting your dodges and cool downs and then you finish with shatter. Doesn’t help that this “high-skill cap” just means I reset phantasmal berserker and signet of ether.

It is NOT healthy for the game, why can’t people understand that? Once again, even the old hambow was more balanced than this “high-skill cap” spec even though it took absolutely no skill to play.

It’s so sad. Even the old hambow was more balanced than this because it didn’t have instant cast and AI…

If chronomancer stays as is it will not be fun for so many people when HoT comes out.

I’ll give you people an example of what this class can do.

1.) They can have 3 phantasmal berserkers because of signet of ether AND F5
2.) They have a trait which IF they shatter a phantasm, that phantasm will live AGAIN, this means 3 phantasmal berserkers will revive if you shatter them. Like you don’t even need 3 berserkers, you can just have 1, shatter that, revive it, and then still have ridiculous burst on top of instant cast CC.
3.) And that same shatter that will 100-0 you and RESET a phantasm takes NO SKILL TO LAND because it is instant cast.

This isn’t the only thing that chronomancer can do that breaks the game.

This just proves that “buffing Mesmer with chronomancer” will just make it broken because it is such a broken class in design for PvP and that they have to be “UP” to be balanced.

Like this is sad, I thought chronomancer was going to be high risk. But because Phantasms (AI, which baits dodges easy) exists on top of instant cast burst, I don’t think Mesmer will EVER be a skill-based class if they implement chronomancer as is right now.

They have to be very careful with Mesmer. Mesmer is already stacked by design, they CANNOT give it “high-skill cap” that has no counterplay.

apharma.3741:

Yes in PvP, Mesmer has great in combat mobility and the proximity of points and the entire game mode shores up this crippling weakness of the Mesmer, currently. Not played stronghold so no idea how that will shift things.

In WvW you are the slowest thing outside of a medi guard. Even necros have better and more accessible swiftness than mesmers.

I guess I could also bring up PvE as another place mesmers are painfully slow but it’s not the right place.

The point I’m making though is before we had options to at least get something defensive from the mindless slaughter of clones and phantasms, whether it be cripple to help kite, weakness to reduce damage or confusion in condition builds.

We lost all that, if we didn’t get some of the things mentioned in this thread we would be in a worse state than pre patch, certainly outside of PvP and it’s debatable how effective mesmer would be in PvP too. Remember everyone else got a lot more defence and offence with the traits too, a lot are minors in trait lines so just always on without really picking.

Great examples are thieves with -25% damage in stealth, guards getting a lot better aegis application, elementalists with elemental attunement/blinding ashes. I’d list others but it’s very late and I’m too tired but you get the idea.

Not really. Mesmer was already a privileged class. And Thief and Guardian buffs don’t even compare to what Mesmer has gotten.

It was never hard to spam evades while counting people’s dodges. There was NOTHING hard about Mesmer other than maybe portal plays and rotation awareness, which already isn’t that hard to understand.

The blinds are unnecessary, the mantra instant cast with confounding suggestions isn’t necessary.

Decap/out-rotate it

Medi-guard with Feel My Wrath will still not compare to Zerk Warr with Frenzy. Zerk Warr still has better survivability and more damage while medi-guard has to use the Renewed Focus just to have the same uptime.

Ofc, Medi-guard helps the team better, but Warrior carries games with THAT same support.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’ve been maining Mesmer for something close to 3 years. I don’t find it easy to play at all. Easiest, I’d say d/d ele.. you almost have to try to die.

You have PU which is a no brainer build no matter how you look at it. And shatter isn’t hard to play once you understand how landing hits work. Mesmer is not a hard class.

Thief is harder than Mesmer, that’s a fact. You know why? Because Thief has lower HP and when they’re spamming evades, they don’t do ridiculous burst damage. And most of all? Thief doesn’t have Phantasm’s which guarantees baiting a dodge to help land shatter after dodges are gone.

Condi is fine unless you’re a dd ele or PU mesmer.

Those builds take no skill.

Nova Stiker.8396:

While practicing with my Mesmer getting used to shattering 7 clones at once. It dawned to me, all of mesmer balance and their placement in the meta since day 1 is based around how powerful shatter spike is.

So the question is, why is shatter spike never in a good spot?

Because it’s instant cast and it legitimately takes no skill to land once you understand how “landing hits” in this game works.

It doesn’t help that Mesmer spams evades while attacking and if they run out of endurance they just stealth.

Mesmer TAKES NO SKILL. This is why Shatter will not be on a good spot, every other class has to be more broken than Mesmer mechanics so that Mesmer is balanced “takes actual skill.”

Look at the cele meta for example. Mesmer in that meta was kinda balanced because they still affect rotations extremely well and it’s impossible to be useless if you were good with portal.

These nerfs are a slap to the wrist, Warrior is fine.

The OP is kind of flat out naive, maybe he’s like around 13 years old?

There is no rule against BM, and it’s probably a friendly BM anyways.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-Ranger-isn-t-getting-buffs/first

For reference. I never once believed that Ranger was a weak class because of how they worked.

Both are strong. But each has an edge over each other.

Ranger:

1500 Range to bait dodges with (all you have to do is wait out projectile reflect then pew pew)
Decent melee counterpressure if using Sword/Horn instead of GS with quickness trait
AI to bait dodges with
Easy escapes
Ok chain CC potential, not very hard to land

Warrior:

Ridiculous (Arguably the best) Cleave for downed bodies
Extreme counterpressure within melee range if stances are up
Extreme Chain CC potential (the trade-off is higher casting times and vulnerable to plenty of counterplay)
Essentially has a harder time baiting dodges but is more rewarding when you land hits.

Both are strong imo.

Warrior will be fine if they don’t buff Engi, Ranger, Necro, Thief, and they nerf Mesmer and Ele.

Right now, it’s just the Mesmer and Ele blind spam that screws Warrior with most other classes like Thief. You should have a more balanced match-up with the classes that aren’t Mes and Ele though once you learn how to land hits better.

All that needs to happen at best is make Thick Skin eat one blind every 20 seconds tbh.

The current playstyle which is “kill or be killed” might be clunky, sure. But it’s also what makes Warrior unique. Warrior should be the attack to survive or “out-damage” type of class which is kinda working right now cause the way Warrior deals damage and sustains is somewhat reasonable compared to Mes and Ele at the moment and should be kind of a balancing point with some balancing tweaks to rampage.

Just wait for the elite specs or something imo.

Mesmer had the same concept during the cele meta. Phantasms (AI) to bait defenses with auto-attack fire/air and finish with Shatter while being able to evade and play defensive. And then ANET decided to give Mesmer an even more overloaded kit when it was already overloaded from the start. Can’t tell if it’s ANET’s fault or “attack while evade mechanics” fault.

Why should a class who baits defenses (dodge/stunbreaks) reliably with so many evades and is hard to catch get buffed flat-out? If they EVER buff ranger, then they have to make it HARD TO PLAY and/or make them riskier. I made this post for the sole purpose of ANET understanding why Mesmer right now is a very anti-fun class to fight against. Mesmer and Ranger are pretty much one in the same, just that Mesmer is more effective and is the result of buffing a class that can ATTACK WHILE EVADING flat-out. You can’t have everything in a silver platter and this is why ANET is/should be taking time on classes that attack while evading.

Keep it clean btw and I hope a red could read this to give them a better understanding on working with classes with “attack while evading” mechanics for PvP.

Ranger needs a “rework” before Lich and Rampage gets any attention.

I see that the OP hasn’t given any answer. In which case, don’t bother paying anyone for lessons unless it’s a top player tbh.

Try to be constructive people. Make Ranger REAL high skill cap by making pets controllable and rewarding, AND nerfing the evades.

There is a way to make this class not aids if it gets buffed. It would be great if people would start giving out ideas as to make Ranger fun and challenging while not frustrating to go against.

Like as is right now? Look at sword auto-attack (Yes, Sword/horn and Longbow works well together) or long bow auto-attack combined with the wolf/dog’s auto-attack. It adds up pretty kitten well, it’s ridiculous specially if you use the Quickness trait on top of that. It’s really strong. This isn’t the only reason why I think Ranger isn’t getting buffed though.

Inb4 1200 toughness 1200 vitality 600 healing power op or 1200 power 1200 condition damage 600 precision op.

I don’t understand how people think Ranger is low tier when it’s actually a really strong class atm.

Quickness res and stomps change games. And they bait dodges and cool downs pretty kitten well. I’m talking about the Long Bow Zerk Ranger btw. If you get people to go defensive by making them obstruct, then you are giving your team breathing room and if people focus you you can dodge it so easy cause pulsing stability, invulns and evade spam.

Like honestly everything is high tier, just that they need to nerf Ele and Mesmer.

Grenadier.

15chars

There are a few simple reasons why Ranger isn’t getting buffs right now.

At it’s current state, Ranger is just extremely easy to play, and there are a few reasons supporting this argument. I will use Longbow Zerker Ranger as an example from a team fight perspective.

1.) Pet mechanics. Pet doesn’t even have any “mechanics” going for it. It is just computer controlled and takes no skill, you don’t even need to Macro manage Ranger as if it was another unit kinda like in Starcraft. Pet getting focused/dying? Just press F4 and reposition. Pet knock someone down? Just spam Sword 1 or Longbow 1.

2.) Ranger damage is extremely reliable. Look at longbow auto-attack, it BAITS DODGES SO EASY and it hard punishes easy because of it’s ratio. Now take a look at point #1 and back to point 2. How does the pet mechanic and how a ranger attacks work? You dodge the ranger, you will eat a knock down from the dog. You dodge the dog you will eat ranger damage which isn’t even bad. Yes people, it is THAT easy to play a ranger. Landing Ranger damage is just so easy, it takes absolutely no skill.

TL;DR Because Ranger has an easy time landing damage, they help the team kill EASIER by baiting dodges through their easy means of giving damage.

3.) If you’re getting focused, that is perfectly fine. You have Signet of Renewal, evades, stealth that is easy to time, pet taunt/fear/immob, Signet of Stone, Protect Me, and “Strength of the Pack” for uncounterable stability. All of these tools help Ranger disengage so that they can repeat trying to kill you over and over and over. It isn’t hard to do these things in practice. It doesn’t help that half of those tools can be cast while the Ranger is casting evades.

4.) They have access to certain things such as Quickness Res and Quickness Stomps which can change the game and snowball certain objectives. They can do this extremely frequently too and maybe use Quickness for bursting people down. I don’t understand why people haven’t caught up to this one yet.

Don’t even get me started on Condi Ranger. That spec is just as easy as Mesmer at it’s current state. That’s even worse than Zerker Ranger if it gets buffed considering it’s tankier and has better point pressure. Just evade and spam attacks, traps, condis that’s all Condi Ranger does be it trap or survival, it takes no skill. They CANNOT buff ranger due to how noob-friendly Ranger is in design.

TL;DR They CANNOT buff ranger at it’s current state or it will be like Mesmer. They have to REWORK ranger into something that takes REAL SKILL. There is a reason why people complained about Spirit Ranger and it’s because of how reliable a Ranger can open a player up to burst while not easily opened up himself defense wise.

dominik.9721:

none he has stability try again

Woops that was my bad.

Allow me to rephrase, please DO NOT answer whether you’re trolling or not (this goes for everyone other than the OP) and if you actually know the answer. Let the OP answer.

Assuming that you have successfully baited all the enemy’s stun break and stability, and then you land a level 2 skull crack, how many axe auto attacks can you land before he can recover and dodge the next stun?

I want to hear this from the OP. Because if he’s such a good Warrior, then he would know how to play all builds.

Okay, let me check this guy’s credibility.

If I get a level 2 skull crack off on someone, how many AXE auto-attacks can I do before he recovers and dodges the next stun?

Well.. without counting rampage, if the two Warriors were god tier at landing high casting time CC then this is possible.

But for the most part? Good going XD

Fello.8673:

You are not a good player, I know this because you play a ranger

While the class takes no skill, it isn’t effective atm. I do agree playing an easy class will not make you best at anything tbh.

This isn’t Archeage ^^

This game allows you to have multiple defensive utilities. That type of CC immunity thing will not work in this game because you will simply make Healers/Bunkers OP.

You know what’s even sadder than this “Crab Mentality” theory that YOU just made?

People in denial. Specifically the Mesmer mains such as you. Stop defending your class so that this game can achieve real balancing, there is nothing wrong with people trying to make the game better.

See here’s the thing. People who main Mesmer think Mesmer is hard. That’s why people hate Mesmers:

1.) Mesmers bait dodges through AI and instant cast. Fact.
2.) It’s not hard to land shatter/burst when it’s instant cast AND Mesmer has an easy time baiting dodges and cool downs. Fact.
3.) Mesmer has zero trade-off when they attack people because they can spam evades on top of AI and Instant Cast.
4.) And if bad things happen? Just stealth, teleport to ledges, and portal away.

TL;DR Mesmer takes no skill.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I read this as…

“Hi! I don’t play Mesmer, but here’s some changes to bring the class in line and make it fair while adding risk vs reward. Sure, I have no idea how this will affect the class in other areas of the game, nor do I know the effects this will have on any other build besides the one I’ve had to fight.”

“Why 15 seconds? Because… It felt like a good number. I’ve done extensive test- oh wait.”

Oh yet, my favorite person agreed with you’

“There’s no risk with a class that fights from ranged! What.. You mean I’m actually NOT mad at Mesmer and just don’t like their greatsword? No! Nerf the whole kitten class! They get one 2.5s evade and an immune! I hate that!!!!!”

Jeez.. I really hope by now the devs have weeded out the real problem. No offense OP but those suggestions are not only overkill, it ignores the fact that the class on a whole is not overpowered. A few traits (3 to be exact) need fixing/shaving, not gutting.

That is sad and pathetic if you refuse to understand that Mesmer never took skill to begin with

Like evading while doing 10k instant cast shatters is just as easy as Rampage. You’re just angry that you’re in denial that you play an easy and effective class.

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

jportell.2197:

Vanthian.9267:

jportell.2197:

Wow so clearly there are people here that are new or relatively new.

Blurred frenzy was nerfed hard in 2013 May:
Blurred Frenzy CD increased by 20%
This skill now is an evade instead of an invulnerability.

So in a time when mesmers were hardly considered for teams ever, and halting strike did jack all for damage mesmer blurred frenzy was double nerfed.

Oh also! This was a time when Anet was considering putting an internal cooldown on deceptive evasion.

So maybe we should look at past nerfs before crying for more? Just maybe. If blurred frenzy is touched again mesmers will have no decent mainhand.

So full of it. Nerfed blurred frenzy? They changed it from a invulnerability to a evade which in this game are the same dam thing. You can’t be controlled or damaged, unless you already have condition on you, with both a evade and invulnerability.

The only thing that slightly affected you is the 20% increase on cool down and even that wasn’t much. It is still just as spamable just like the block for engineers which needs to be toned town.

Mesmer has always been strong 1v1 just like Thief have fine defenses without stealth even if all you people do is kitten the opposite. Most of this community that is left is just to bad to see it. That is why all the actual pvpers abandon ship a long time.

No they aren’t the same kitten thing. Before blurred frenzy was the only reason that sword was taken. Because illusionary leap missed its path to the target half the time. It also made it so mesmers could actually be in a team fight with out eating a face full of retal from guardians. It was a double whammy and right after that happened is when mesmers disappeared from the meta for quite a long time. The only reason sword was taken more recently is because we need a somewhat decent mainhand and illusionary leap after almost 3 years was finally fixed!

So no evade and invuln weren’t the same thing. And now people want to nerf the once nerfed blurred frenzy some more? What do you want it to be nerfed into now? 20s cooldown who’s activation time is so slow that there is no way it could count as an evade?

O wait. The devs would prolly do that.

Can you tell me how evade and invulnerability are not effectively the same thing in pvp? You do not take damage from any skills, no new conditions can be applied on you and you also cannot be cced. The only thing that’s different is the fact Blurred frenzy won’t save you from taking damage from retaliation, which is only an issue if you fight guardians/engis and do not know how to position yourself.

Also look at all other skills that provide evade, they time frame of the evade is usually 1/2 to 1 sec, for some reason Blurred frenzy provide 2 and 1/2 sec of evade on 12 second cooldown. On top of that mesmer have distortion by default, I think every profession would love that, having an invulnerability for free.

Mesmers are clearly over the top, not all nerf suggestions are justified, but stop acting like they killed the class with this change.

Here is the biggest one you didnt mention.

Distortion on the mesmer enables him to the Something else ON TOP of Being Invuln.

Evade and Other Invuln (like Renewed F.) Prevents other classes doing something else.

This is what Mesmer “mains” refuse to acknowledge. Evading/invuln while attacking is not skill based. All it does is make the way you attack have NO RISK. At least Rampage can get hit by a Moa morph by Engi or Mesmer because you can’t attack while you spam 1. You run out of evades on Mesmer and you missed a shatter? Is k just stealth, teleport on ledge, and portal out and wait for your cool downs to come back.

Mesmer was never a hard class, it is THE privileged class of the game in design.

TL;DR Mesmer never took skill.

The sad part is, even though this is supposed to be a troll thread that mimics the format of my other thread, what the OP is saying is true.

Guardian and Mesmer are like one in the same, they really never took skill to begin with because of attack while evading (in this case block spamming/blind spamming) mechanics XD

Think of it this way, will you be able to get a Mesmer to use a defensive utility before you burn YOUR defensive utility?

The answer probably is.. you can’t unless you’re a Thief. They have instant cast mechanics that make it hard to catch them in the first place. Too much counter pressure, instant cast punish, and evades in one class.

How is that hard again? Like even when Mesmer had no condi clear back then, they had the tools to not get caught in the first place.

But now? That’s even easier because Mesmer has actual condi clear and now the only thing that can get to them is POWER damage, which they have plenty of mitigation towards.

I don’t understand why people think this class is hard. During launch, everyone agreed that Mesmer was broken. That hasn’t changed today and even in the Cele meta, it was only UP because the Cele classes were just as easy and more effective to play.

Now lets talk about mechanics. For starters? Mesmer has so many things that can bait/punish dodges. Mantra of Distraction, Shatter, Phantasms. ALL of those baits/punishes dodges easy. And guess what? Most of what Mesmer can do that is threatening is INSTANT CAST. That’s why if I random dodge and you don’t do anything crazy, I will die in the next few seconds because instant cast mechanics from Mesmer take no skill to land.

Now the next problem? They can do all of these things while spamming evades and stealth.

Portal plays? That’s just rotation awareness, ANYONE can apply rotation awareness to all class. It’s not something relevant to Mesmers only. Portal plays just make rotations EASIER. In which case, Mesmer is an easy class and I rest my case.

Mesmer isn’t hard to play people. Even Helseth is realistically just getting carried by easy mechanics. Decent player and all but my point is Mesmer can actually carry bad players because of how easy they bait dodges for no effort. NOW even thief can’t really counter a Mesmer 1v1.

TL;DR Mesmer is and was always an easy class even when thief countered them. The only time Mesmer will EVER be a skill-based class is if their evades get cut in half and they get something extremely telegraphed + rewarding.