Guild Wars 2

Most players already have left. I only log in occasionally to do dailies. I’ve just been playing BDO and Blade and Soul and occasionally check in here on the forums to see if they’ve un-effed up WvW yet. Funny thing that BDO has more support for guilds than a game called Guild Wars does. There’s actual guild wars and arenas where you can fight, and you can challenge people to duel anywhere outside of town. I decided to give it a try since its cheap to buy it now anyway and its been alot more fun that i’ve been having in wvw ever since anet decided to focus on pve and ignore us anyway.

I’d advise some of you to give it a try. Despite what some people say, its not the least bit pay to win, you’d be a fool to try and pay2win your way through it. They limit how much you can sell from the cash shop per week. and it would take you months of selling and thousands of dollars to get where a player who just grinds would be, and you’d still be behind everyone that knows how to make silver in game. Its a huge grind, but its worth it once you get geared up and can do pvp.

We just have to accept that anet doesnt give 2 craps about wvw or its players and if you want to play something that supports guilds and competitive pvp, you have to find a different game. I’ll keep checking back occasionally hoping they prove me wrong, but until then, I’m just going to play other games instead and actually have fun rather than frustrate myself with anet’s utter incompetence and neglect towards wvw. I’d advise you all to do the same.

coro.3176:

I’m that good

Actually though, I run with no stun break because I like Rocket Boots (should be a stunbreak but isn’t) as my escape skill.

However, I believe in counterplay. Every attack ought to in theory have something you can do to avoid it or prevent its damage/cc. Unblockable attacks can be dodged. Melee can be kited. CC can be blocked. etc. I consider Basilisk Venom a broken mechanic because you just have to take the cc+damage. Yes, a stunbreak will save you from some of the burst (maybe half?) but you still have to take the interrupt & attack and there’s nothing you can do about it.

I’ve never really had a problem with basi venom. I’ve always thought it was pretty balanced as far as elites go. Headbutt on the other hand, that’s incredibly broken. Stuns for longer than basi venom, can crit even tanky people for 5k, and refills adrenaline to full, its a self stun also so it allows you to proc rousing resilience, and is only 20 seconds as opposed to basi venom that’s more than double the cd and isnt anywhere near as powerful.

And yeah, i like rocket boots too, but i always have elixir gun with me since the stunbreak and the cond cleanse from it is too good to pass up.

coro.3176:

How do I deal with other stuns? I block. How do I deal with other unblockables? I dodge.

You can’t dodge or block Basilisk venom. When used with steal, it’s instant. Even if I happen to be dodging at the time and the steal is evaded, I’m pretty sure that doesn’t consume the venom. It’ll still apply on the next attack.. or the next one if I manage to dodge that too.

Why would you roam with zero stunbreaks? I’m sorry, but that’s just foolish. I take every stunbreak and condi cleanse available + condi reduction runes, traits, and food, and still think theres too much stun and condi spam. How can you roam with none and think things are going to turn out ok for you? The majority of roamers are condi and cc spammers. So roaming without every stunbreak and cleanse you can take is just asking to die.

Harper.4173:

I take it you don’t really get the state of WvW back then. It was not that easy – but you missed my point entirely. The amount of effort required to get your badges back then was not minuscule. I remember grinding for about two weeks – although I didn’t play WvW only.
The reward system back then was radically different – there were no tracks, you couldn’t “afk” and you only got badges from killing players which was NOT easy considering how big zergs were and how populated WvW was. Not to mention that not all players dropped them. In a large zerg vs zerg fight you were lucky if you dropped around 5.
Did I mention there was no autoloot? so you had to manually pick them up? If you couldn’t – you lost them.

So yeah – I got what I wanted from WvW in about 4-5 hours per day for about two weeks.
A full raid run with a good team will take you 3-4 hours a week. It gives you 13 LIs. You need to do this about 12 times to get your armor. That’s comparable as a time investment in time but not necessarily in skill and dedication – I will admit.

Mate – you don’t get it – it’s about wanting that item – not the rarity. Not the function – that specific item.
If you want something but it’s gated behind content do that content – it’s THAT simple.

You’re telling me that if i wanted THE PVP BACKPIECE I should have done the PVE one? How does that work? Are they the same item with the same skin? You dismiss my argument in an absurd way.
It’s the same as you wanting the legendary armor and me telling you – “just get ascended lel”. it’s not the same thing.
Regardless of “options” if you want something behind gated content – you have to do that content.
Go ahead and complain all you want – if I could I would gladly give you a set of LIs to make your own armor – it’s that bad.

The point being you have the option of having a legendary back from PvE. I guess youre one of those players that cares about the skins. I don’t I just want it for the functionality. WvW should have an option of having legendary armor as well. Give it a different skin so you pvers wont cry about your exclusive skin, i dont care. The point is you have a way of getting a legendary back from pve without ever having to do pvp. WvW and Pvp do not have the option of getting a set of legendary armor without doing pve, and that is not the least bit fair.

And yes, I understand perfectly how wvw was back then. I’ve been playing since beta and have been a wvw player this whole time. Which is why i find your statement utterly ridiculous. It was and still is incredibly easy to get badges. Most wvw players who arent just casual pvers that pop in during reset are sitting on 10s-100s of thousands of badges by now.

All modes deserve their own legendary set. There is a PvE back, if you want that skin, you do pve. There is a pvp back, if you want that skin, you do pvp. But you still have the option of getting a legendary back playing your preferred mode. That option does not exist for legendary armor for those that dont like pve. PvP and WvW deserve a set of legendary armor as well with different skins than the Pve version so everyone can get it in their preferred mode and not be forced to play content they hate.

This seems appropriate.

Harper.4173:

Nikkinella.8254:

How would you pvers feel if roles were reversed and legendary armor required you to do nothing but play pvp and wvw for months on end rather than your preferred game mode? it wouldn’t be very fair would it

Yeah – nah – I did that.
Back when I made my first legendary it required 500 badges. This was month 6 of year one since release. Farming those was hard. I WvWd a LOT for them and you know what I didn’t do? I didn’t complain on the forums.

I dislike GW2’s PvP – mostly because of the maps and the team balance throughout the seasons. (the combat is fine – the maps and balance are completely bad in my opinion).
I wanted the PvP backpiece – you know what I did? You guessed it – I did PvP without complaining that I can’t get my skin in PvE.

So yes – you’re wrong. I didn’t come on the forums to complain – it was * fair*. You want the PVP Backpiece – you do PvP. I dislike PvP – but I did it. Why can’t you do the same?

LOL! youre comparing having to spend at most a couple days in wvw just running around in a blob to wvw players having to do raids? It not even comparable. The miniscule amount of wvw you have to do to get GoB is NOTHING compared to the ridiculous amount of time a wvw player would have to spend doing raids. And you can afk for the most part to get GoB anyway. I can’t believe you would even try to make that comparison. You can get what you want from wvw in a few hours. If I could get legendary armor from pve in 6 hours then go back to playing wvw, THEN it would be a fair comparison.

And as far as the pvp backpiece goes, THERE IS ALSO A LEGENDARY BACK YOU CAN GET IN PVE! So there goes that argument. You have the option to play pve and still get a legendary back and never have to set foot in pvp. You chose to do it because you wanted that skin, but still have the option to get one in pve instead. There is no legendary WvW or PvP armor, we dont have the option of getting a different one. What a hollow argument. So no, we wvw players DO have the right to complain about it. And the pvp back is so simple to get as well. You can lose almost every fight except for the few required wins for the collection and still earn it. You can practically afk to get that as well now.

Erzian.5218:

Nikkinella.8254:

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

Internal CD would result in quite the opposite of what you supposedly want to achieve as it would punish thouhtful players who combine their different sources of chill for a spike and those who actually hit their highly telegraphed rs4+5 combo.

Apart from that: berserker, thief, chrono and druid are all counters to reaper because of the high amount of cc and condition removal/resistance they have access to.

All the classes you mentioned are equally as broken and need severe nerfs too. So it not like we’re just trying to pick on reaper. But other classes being broken is no excuse for deathly chill to remain broken. People always try to defect topics by going “Oh this is broken on x class here so its ok for this to be broken on my class!” No, ALL the broken stuff needs to be nerfed. All the overpowered crap that HoT brought in needs to be nerfed into the ground so wvw fights can be fun again.

All these people complaining about how it looks, and we wvw players just want it for the functionality since you constantly have to change your build in wvw to adapt to different opponents. Just give us a version of it that has the default ascended armor skin and we’ll be happy. We don’t like pve, and we would have to spend our entire time we play the game for months, playing a mode we hate, in order to get something that would be extremely beneficial as a wvw player to have. Seems a bit ridiculous and most wvw players would opt to just not play at all rather than be subjected to playing pve.

How would you pvers feel if roles were reversed and legendary armor required you to do nothing but play pvp and wvw for months on end rather than your preferred game mode? it wouldn’t be very fair would it? Just give us a set for each mode all with different skins so we can play our preferred game mode and still have legendary armor. I’d rather earn it in pvp or wvw instead of having to suffer through pve.

babazhook.6805:

A naked warrior with zero armor or weapons will have close to the same total vitality as a thief kitted in Dire. A warrior can kit out to get 3k+ armor and more health then that thief in dire while still having a high crit rate and ferocity , this in a power build.

Yet power builds can generate enough power to kill the same.

Why is it that a thief or Mesmer in Dire suddenly an issue? If you generate enough power to kill said warrior, you have enough to kill said thief. The fact is that for a thief in Dire the majority of its mitigation comes from dodges , stealths ports and resets. The dire armor gives some added survival for the times between. The Dire armor does nothing against other condition builds.

Dire and TB are not an issue. Claiming it so is very much like all of the people complaining that Ghost Thief was a result of trapper runes.

Warrior is just incredibly broken now so i don’t think its very fair to use one OP class to defend things that are broken on other classes. Conditions and just warriors in general need nerfs.

Feanor.2358:

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

Dude, you’re talking about pve. I’m speaking from a purely wvw perspective. Don’t touch it in pve, i don’t care if its op there or not because I don’t play pve. The fact of the matter it is that it is overpowered how it is in wvw. It needs an icd in WvW. They have shown that they do have the capability to split skills and this is a skill that should have a split and the wvw version needs an icd. And all the skills you mentioned for ele are not viable at all in a roaming build anyway. They may be meta for pve ele, but are totally useless for roaming. This is why we need separate balance for wvw and pve. Stuff that is overpowered in wvw and ruins the mode for everyone seems perfectly fine in pve. And god forbid they disrupt the meta in pve! So wvw just has to suffer with ridiculously overpowered garbage that deserves to be nerfed, just for the sake of pve.

I don’t know why they continue to think that wvw and pve can function on the same balance system. fighting other players is clearly different from fighting mindless AI. Mesmer is probably the one of the highest dps roaming builds right now, but i know theyre crap dps in pve. Ele is the opposite, high dps in pve, but thats not viable in wvw so we have one of the lowest dps roaming builds out there. There’s tons of discrepancies like that with every class. WvW and PvE can’t use the same builds and same skills, so it should not be balanced the same way.

XenesisII.1540:

In case you guys haven’t seen it posted in the general forums or reddit, the legendary armors in motion.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/215430230

Eww. If they do make a way for us to get that in WvW, i’m definitely transumuting over it. They all look terrible. The light armor looks like a giant bug, and that’s the least horrible out of all of them. Even more reason for me to want a separate wvw version with default ascended skins on it, cuz i’m just gonna transmute it anyway.

Now that you’ve finished on the PvE version, when can we WvW and PvP players expect our own separate versions that dont require us to do any mind numbing PvE? Legendary WvW armor when? Atleast let us know if you’re working on it or if you plan on continuing treating WvW players like the neglected, deformed stepchild you keep in the attic and never allow to see the light of day. And despite what some ignorant and ill-informed people working at your company may think, WvW and PvP players do NOT enjoy PvE and we shouldnt be forced to do it for rewards. All 3 modes deserve equal rewards that can be earned in just that mode alone.

They need to be nerfed in both pvp and wvw. Its a change they made to make conditions more viable in pve, so I don’t understand why they didnt make it a pve only change to begin with. When they announced the changes they even said something about wanting to make it more viable in pve. And now we have a boring condi meta in both competitive modes and a dwindling population in both modes as well because its become so boring and unbalanced. But hey, pve is doing fine, so GG Anet. But yeah I agree, they need to revert the changes for both pvp and wvw.

Drinks.2361:

I don’t find the class balance terrible when roaming, the real problem are the players who feel they should build siege to hit a small group fight.

aww, but that’s funny when it happens. It makes me feel special, like they think im such a threat they need siege to fight me. I had 2 thieves and a ranger try unsuccessfully to kill me the other day before running into a nearby camp and building a ballista to shoot at me. That made my day.

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

Chorazin.4107:

Balance on the small scale in WvW is poor at best, broken at worst. Anet do not care, Zerkers, DD, condi chronos are probably the worst offenders.

It takes player intervention in 5v5’s to preserve some semblance of balance by banning condi comps.

And then you have things like the 5 man mesmer distortion groups. How long was Ghost thief a thing? Like 6 months before Anet got around to balancing it and only because someone posted a vid of them killing a PvE boss mob with the build.

Dont even get me started on how broken mesmer is in wvw. They’ll never fix it though cuz supposedly its bad in pve. Chances are it will become even more godmode than it is already because of that to the point where it becomes pointless to play anything besides mesmer in wvw. Its almost at that point already. The distortion thing will never get fixed because that’s something that mesmers use to cheese boss mechanics in raids and they don’t seem to have a problem with that. As for the overwhelming amount of damage they do with both condi and power, it will probably just get buffed even more since they’re the lowest dps in pve. This is why we desperately need separate balance from pve.

Xenon.4537:

Gokil.2543:

… it makes for top quality memes…

I tried.

I laughed and then i cried because its true.

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

If we have to keep our Icd, necro needs one for deathly chill. even if we take every possible way we can get burn, reaper still outputs more chill than we output burn. And thief will still be able to blindspam more than we can. I still think its perfectly fair for our icd to be removed entirely on that alone. They either need to buff us to that point, or nerf them down to our level. I’d be fine with keeping an icd if they also gave necros an icd of 10+ seconds. But yeah, you’re right there is too much spam in the game already and powercreep is never good. toning everyone else down would be a better solution.

Good tips, but it doesn’t change the fact that reapers are overtuned right now in wvw. Reapers, Chronos and zerkers are all in the same boat now as far as high reward and low effort go. They all do need to be tuned down a bit. I’m not saying you’re wrong, on the contrary, I agree with you. But they are overtuned right now and do need some shaving. The risk/reward factor is way off for all 3 of those classes right now as far as small scale fighting goes. Druids are borderline, but i’d say its mostly their pets that need to be changed. Shouldnt be able to build tanky and have a bursty pet.

@ apharma

You can however afk raids. There are plenty of guilds that offer to do them for you. You pay them some gold, they do the raid for you while you afk and reap the rewards. So tell me how raids are actually difficult or “prestigious” when i can just convert gems to gold and pay some guild to do it for me? Not that I’m willing to pay thousands of dollars potentially for something that should have a wvw equivalent to begin with since it benefits wvw the most out of any mode.

At the very least wvw players deserve a way to earn the legendary armor playing our preferred mode if they don’t plan on giving us our own different version. WvW is always neglected though, so the chances of them making a separate set for wvw is slim to none, considering the fact they added an ascended vendor for pvp, which doesnt even use armor, but havent given wvw one when we need it the most. So the best we can hope for is a way to earn it through wvw now. I would prefer a wvw exclusive set different from the pve version, but do you honestly see them doing that?

You can’t afk GvG fights or roaming in wvw. you have to actually actively participate in it, and have more skill than your opponent if you want to beat your enemy. And there are plenty of people who have videos already of them soloing raid bosses. I mean hell, I used to solo MAX attack missions back in Phantasy Star and the pve in that game was infinitely more challenging than anything in this game because enemies actually reacted to you and werent just giant hp sponges with set patterns. I just find the pve in this game so dull i can never bring myself to even bother here. I tried raids, bored to tears. Its the same garbage as the rest of the pve in this game. Its just a matter of memorizing a set pattern. Thats my point. Players, well good players anyway, do not act in a set pattern. They act and react to what you do and fighting another player will ALWAYS be more difficult than fighting AI because of that.

And I never said mindless zerging didnt exist in wvw. If you actually read what I said, I said it exists in both wvw and pve. But thats only one part of it. The hardest part of pve is raiding. The hardest part in wvw is gvg and roaming. But the hardest part of pve is still nothing compared to the hardest part of wvw because you still have to interact with other humans and not a scripted AI that follows a set pattern that can be memorized then exploited. If anet was smart, they would have supported gvg and had legendary armor as a prize for the top guilds around. But instead they chose to destroy balance for the sake of pve raids and drove all the competitive guilds away.

And why are you trying to argue against facts anyway by bringing up things that have nothing to do with what I said anyway? You’re like those people that argue that the world is flat, or there’s more than 2 genders despite facts proving otherwise.

You obviously aren’t a wvw player if you think that’s all its about. And yes, wvw will always be more challenging than anything pve could ever have. Fighting another player is always more engaging than fighting scripted AI that moves in a set pattern and doesn’t react or try to counter what you do. Roaming and GvG makes anything in pve a simple walk in the park. And that is something that can’t be debated, because its a fact. Fighting another player is ALWAYS more challenging than fighting AI, that’s not even something that can be disputed. We don’t refer to the mindless zerging when we talk about challenges in wvw. mindless zerging exists in both pve and wvw and takes no skill in either mode.

Raiden.1375:

Nikkinella.8254:

That, I could accept. I could just pay some pve guild to do it for me while i afk through all the wings once. Then I could earn the armor playing my preferred mode and not have to suffer continuously through mind numbingly boring pve that i have zero interest in, just to get something that would be beneficial for me in WvW. But doing something like that would make sense and would benefit everyone, so of course Anet will never do it.

That would be better than having to pay them 12 times right? Lol, even if selling runs was banned or something, I would still be much more willing to give raids a try knowing that I only had to complete them once worst case scenario, and I’m sure lots of others would too. Who knows, some people might even end up enjoying them, and stick around to do some more… Which is what Anet seems to be pushing for with this.

Nikkinella.8254:

That would be a compromise I would be willing to make. But I would PREFER that WvW gets its own separate unique legendary armor different from the PvE version that requires zero interaction with anything PvE related that WvW players could get only from doing WvW

Yeah, me too ideally. As long as that’s not another 2 years away from being implemented before we can even start working towards making it.

They already said they have no problems with people selling dungeon/fractal runs before as long as its for in game gold and you dont use real money and stuff like that. they don’t care about guilds selling runs. So there goes the argument that pvers have that its “prestigious” and only people that grind through that crap deserve to have it. There’s several guilds that offer to carry you through it already. There goes their argument that wvw doesnt deserve to have legendary armor cuz you can afk through reward tracks. You can afk through raids too.

I HATE the pve in this game. I wouldnt do it at all if wvw paid better and didnt require me to do pve to pay for food and gear. I don’t mind spending like 100 bucks and converting gems to gold to pay for a single run through a raid so i dont have to suffer through doing it myself. But im not going to spend thousands of dollars potentially having to pay for dozens of runs through raids, that’s just ridiculous.

A game shouldnt feel like a job, and pve to me is a boring job that i would have to do just to get back to WvW. I don’t think i’d be able to stay awake long enough to make it through a whole raid if i was forced to do it myself. This could actually end up making Anet alot of money. Alot of wvwers would be willing to just pay for it if we could just do it once. Pvers will be happy cuz they get more gold from us, wvw players would be happy cuz we get armor and dont have to suffer through pve. Anet makes tons of money from us converting gems to gold. Everyone wins.

Seriously though, does anyone know how i could just play an earlier version of the game before all the catering to pvers? wvw was great a few years ago before all the changes. I want to back to the old trait system and before stuff like dire and perplexity existed.

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Here a good question to ask if wvw was the only way to get legendary armor how would raider react?

How do pvers always react if they ever have to do anything involving wvw or pvp? They cry, scream, demand, and send death threats to Anet until they cave and allow them to do it in pve instead.

As seen with the old map completion hehe. It feels like anet is making the same errors over and over. We realty need to cox them into changing there approaches to this game.

They never should listen to pvers at all. They just ruin the game for wvw and pvp players alike and are never happy even when they get their way anyway. Pve cries that they cant play condi in pve and are bored with all running zerk. Condi is already op in wvw, pvers dont care and cry for buffs anyway. Meta in pve changes in pve from all zerk to all condi. wvw and pvp suffer now that condi is no longer just op, but at god mode. Pvers cry now that meta is boring and they all use the same builds. They made wvw and pvpers miserable begging for changes and they still arent happy now. Anet should never listen to pvers.

Raiden.1375:

Just out of curiosity, would you guys still be upset if Legendary Armor only required clearing all the current raid wings once (just for the Legendary Armor collection achievements)? And then after that, the Legendary Insights could be obtained through weekly reward tracks in WvW or PvP, similar to how raid boss kills only drop the Legendary Insights once per week?

Basically, it would then theoretically be possible to only spend a week or so clearing all of the PvE Raid wings, and then you could go back to WvW or PvP to earn the rest of the Legendary Insights that are needed to craft the armor. Where as right now, you would have to clear the all of the currrent raid wings every week for 3 months straight to acquire enough Legendary Insights for the armor.

That, I could accept. I could just pay some pve guild to do it for me while i afk through all the wings once. Then I could earn the armor playing my preferred mode and not have to suffer continuously through mind numbingly boring pve that i have zero interest in, just to get something that would be beneficial for me in WvW. But doing something like that would make sense and would benefit everyone, so of course Anet will never do it.

That would be a compromise I would be willing to make. But I would PREFER that WvW gets its own separate unique legendary armor different from the PvE version that requires zero interaction with anything PvE related that WvW players could get only from doing WvW

I’d simply go back to how things were a few years ago. Before stab changes, before condi buffs, before all the crap changes made for the sake of pve that sucked all the fun out of wvw, back when we could put 30 points into a traitline and had better build variety. If I could find a private server somewhere that plays an old version of the client, I’d be all over that. I don’t suppose any of you happen to know of one?

Jski.6180:

Here a good question to ask if wvw was the only way to get legendary armor how would raider react?

How do pvers always react if they ever have to do anything involving wvw or pvp? They cry, scream, demand, and send death threats to Anet until they cave and allow them to do it in pve instead.

We definitely should have a poll. Some hate the idea, some love it. So we should put it to a vote.

Pver’s think its fair that raids are the only way to get legendary armor. Lets add WvW map completion back as a mandatory thing to get gift of exploration and lets make it so crafting legendary armor requires 2 gifts of battle for each piece. It is legendary after all and should require you to do something in all parts of the game. And getting full map completion in wvw these days is something I would say is harder than anything you have to do in pve.

OR we could be fair to everyone and not try to force people to do content they dont enjoy or want to do. Wvw players shouldn’t be forced to do pve anymore than pvers should be forced to do wvw. Pve gets its own set of legendary armor, wvw gets its own different set of legendary armor, and spvp gets its own different set as well.

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

or “disable the effects of enemy res traits and mercy runes” or “stomps are 100% faster” That would be nice too.

People still use Mercy runes or is that eu meta still? O.o Idk, ANET removed quickness stomps. Not sure they would want them back. Increasing stomp speed would remove relevance for Daredevil’s Impact Strike

+200% or +400% damage to down is enough for sure.

Oh yeah, people have been using them ALOT lately. I have no idea why there’s like this sudden huge influx of people running res traits+ mercy runes now, but its a fairly common thing now from what I’ve encountered. The res traits stack with mercy runes too. They can res someone faster than you’re even halfway finished with the stomping animation. very annoying when you blow several cooldowns to ensure a safe stomp and they still get up before you’re even partially done with the stomp animation.

At the very least they need to make the outmanned buff give 100-200% faster stomping animation. or they need to balance it out and give every class a finishing move like impact strike. They have the ability to just add skills if they want to. They’ve done it before with stuff like antitoxin spray.

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

or “disable the effects of enemy res traits and mercy runes” or “stomps are 100% faster” That would be nice too.

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

Taobella.6597:

to be more balanced i would agree to this only if the sever is outman

That would probably be better actually. Just a new thing to add on to outmanned buff.

How does this not benefit all of wvw? The more skilled smaller groups will be able to wipe the unskilled groups without them being carried by ressing their downs over and over until they overwhelm the smaller groups. This would also be a great way to punish zergs, which is something alot of us have wanted. Discouraging mindless blobbing is a good thing. The only one that suffers in this are the bad uncoordinated players, which is how it should be. We should just have a poll since we have alot of people who do want this, and alot of people who dont. And this topic gets brought up alot anyway.

I don’t want the pve version. They would cry anyway if we got access to the same armor they got. Just give us our own legendary armor with the same skin as basic ascended armor. WvW players only want it for the stat swapping anyway, so they don’t have to waste any resources making new skins for us. The legendary armor is already done. So literally all they have to do is make a second set of it and reskin it with base ascended skins and put it in a vendor for us for some sort of currency we can get only in wvw.

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can’t run around without a guardian with res traits and mercy runes to babysit you when you get outplayed by someone? I don’t see why you’re arguing against this. Only unskilled zerglings that try to run over better players while relying on numbers should fear this.

Yeah I mean whats the harm in having a poll? If the majority don’t want it, they just vote no and it doesn’t get put in. If yes gets voted, well then you know that the majority feels the same way I do and wants to bring back skilled gameplay to WvW.

SKilled play should be rewarded. If you get downed when you 3 vs 1 someone, you deserve to die completely and not be carried by downstate to save you.

Can we have another poll to see if we can remove downstate from WvW? Its a poor mechanic that I and I’m sure many other roamers agree carries bad players. Oftentimes when I’m fighting 3 or more people by myself and manage to down 1 or more of them, the rest will usually res them faster than i can even finish the stomping animation to finish one of them off. You were downed, you lost, go waypoint. Please just remove this carry mechanic already and keep it in pve only.

Or at the very least can we change the outmanned buff so that it negates downstate for an enemy you kill and just kills them instantly when you take their hp to zero?

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Nikkinella.8254:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

K THEN.5162:

I’m pretty sure it’s Aang

U win the thread mate.

+9000 on this. Aang ftw

But now that we need him most, he’s gone.

It kinda hurst me in the feels since it’s a perfect metaphor for the ele community and lack of build diveristy in pvp.

Aang where are u? the 4 attunments need u to unite us and lead us into the mists.

The Fire Nation (OP warriors and out of control condi spam) have taken over and Aang (a decent dps build for elementalist) is nowhere to be found to bring balance. That’s how I see it.

I don’t really see a problem with this skill, especially when compared to something like say warrior’s outrage which is 10 seconds, and can be traited so it gives them almost a 3k heal and an extra 1000 toughness whenever they use it. And they also fart out stability and stun you every 4 seconds. So do you really think its that bad considering thief’s limited defenses outside of stealth? I don’t think we should even begin talking about nerfing thief’s defense until we deal with crap like that and also 12k arc dividers at 450 range.

They only care about pve. It was nerfed because of raid bosses. Same reason they didn’t give a flying crap about how broken ghost thief was until it managed to solo a raid boss. Balance in game is done entirely around pve with no care of how wvw is affected.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

K THEN.5162:

I’m pretty sure it’s Aang

U win the thread mate.

+9000 on this. Aang ftw

But now that we need him most, he’s gone.

The main reason most people are frustrated with Anet as far as wvw is concerned, is because each patch seems to make wvw less and less fun, and there’s no indication at all of any desire to even try to fix this. You really do need separate balance already for all 3 game modes. No more, “oh we want skills to be similar across all the modes so people arent confused.”

NO, that doesnt work anymore. That may have been fine 5 years ago, but that simply doesnt work anymore now. The game needs separate balance. There’s too many skills now that are simply ridiculously overpowered in wvw that make combat miserable and un-fun for all those involved, but nerfing them globally would ruin stuff in pve and vice versa.

The balance team needs to get over whatever hangup they have about wanting all 3 modes to be similar and just separate balance already. Combat is simply not fun anymore in wvw because of the terrible balance that seems to be balanced around raid bosses with billions of hp. Newsflash, players don’t have billions of hp like bosses do! Overpowered skills like epidemic and CoR on a 4 sec cooldown doing 10-20k damage is not acceptable here like it is in pve!

There are numerous threads listing all the overpowered and underpowered stuff in wvw that seems perfectly fine in pve, and I’m sure you’re aware at this point what skills are overperforming or underperforming but dont change them because it would ruin stuff in pve. But this isnt pve, it needs separate balance. Fighting a player that can have 10-30k hp is nowhere near the same as fighting a boss with millions to billions of hp.

Quick, someone go solo a raid boss on condi mesmer so we’ll finally get that cancer out of wvw too. Its been what, 4 and a half years we’ve had that OP crap? Solo a raid boss with it, and we’ll probably see it gone in the next week.

They missed the opportunity for that years ago when they drove away the GvG players with crappy changes. If they revert the stab and condi changes and remove broken stats like dire and minstrels, tone back the boonspam and passive procs on every class. MAYBE and thats a very small maybe, we might see a return of GvG then we could see where it goes from there. But they would actually have to care enough about wvw for that to happen and admit they were wrong (HAHA) and finally have separate skill balance for all 3 game modes.

I used to play wvw for 6 +hours a day roaming and doing gvg. Now i only log in maybe once a week or so for a few hours if that much. And occasionally check in praying for condi nerfs to be announced. They just made this mode no longer fun to play. And if its not fun for the people playing it, why the hell would anyone want to watch it?

Alot of falsehoods being spread around by condi players. You can very easily negate power damage to practically nothing with high armor and constant protection and weakness spam to the point you can ignore power players completely. I can easily 1 vs 4 most power builds with very little investment in defensive stats against power damage because of that. On the other hand, i can spec entirely againt condi with anti condi food, runes, traits, and its still a struggle to kill some condi builds just 1 vs 1.

Power damage is additive. If multiple power users are attacking you, you can still survive because theyre all doing the same negligible damage against you. Condi damage however stacks multiplicatively when more players are added. The damage becomes exponential against more than one condi user at a time and it gets to the point that regardless of how many cleanses you have, it becomes impossible to deal with without complete immunity.

You should not be able to 1 vs 10 and stack 50 bleed instantly by yourself and nearly kill that group. That is not balanced. That is not skill on your part, that is called overpowered. The majority of players that play condi only think they are good, they aren’t. Theyre being carried by a broken mechanic and they know it. Which is why they argue so hard against it when anyone suggests something to balance it. They like their god mode and don’t want it taken away.

The fact of the matter though is regardless of your personal opinion, it isn’t healthy for the game mode in its current state. There’s a reason why everyone blobs up now and stacks resistance as much as possible. There’s a reason why GvG is dead now and there’s few roamers to be found now. Those of you who only ever zerged before and got sick of being crushed by more skilled players finally feel useful and i could understand that. But the current state of condi is driving away the more skilled players that enjoyed GvG and fast paced, skill based combat as opposed to our current skill-less condi spam meta. It doesn’t take any skill to have 3k armor and 30k health, press 2 buttons and kill groups of people.

Electra.7530:

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

Some SJW or feminist probably complained about how it was oppressive to women somehow so they removed it. You’d be surprised how many seemingly minor things get removed from games these days because of those exact reasons. I wish I were joking about this, but i’m dead serious. Seen it happen in tons of games I’ve played over the years.