Guild Wars 2

Bulls charge teleport? Maybe as a temporary Band-Aid until they figure out how to fix rush skills in general but it doesn’t fit warrior theme to the slightest.

Also it would need a charge up because you know, it does knock down :/

Harper.4173:

coglin.1867:

It seems to me a good option is to lower the passive, so that it still has sustainable value, while adding the heal per second difference into the activated function. This theoretically gives it the same value, but no longer promotes the concept of ignoring the active. As well, it gives warriors a bit of a heal in burst situations.

But you already have other active heals if you want to go down that path.

So you figure if people don’t like the strongest option, they should just switch to the mediocre alternatives? The other 3 healing skills need a rework just as much as healing signet does, only difference is they need slight buffs and mechanic changes while healing signet just needs an overhaul from head to toe so it isn’t free healing with no drawbacks.

Receive some spike damage? No worries, pop a stance or run out of there, or put up your defenses such as shield stance, counters, cc, w/e you have on you. The second you take damage HS goes to work, so it’s not like you get wiggled down and suddenly get nuked for 5 digits.

Ever stand on the edge of your seat spectating expecting a warrior to fall at low health with healing signet ticking them up? Sometimes its like watching paint dry….

I’d prefer less on-demand reveal more environmental awareness. In this case, no to reveal but yes to foot prints.

Harper.4173:

Maybe if healing signet had a decent active that people would use it would create an opportunity cost for the passive.

There have been many suggestions, but all anet did is shave a small % and left the active untouched.

Sad really :/

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

killahmayne.9518:

Basically

- Healing Signet doesn’t need a nerf
- Healing Signet could use a functionality change

/end thread no more healing signet threads please

Pretty much. Healing Signet doesn’t need a nerf, or a buff. It needs a functionality change.

Couldn’t agree more.

Also I already asked to have this merged with the other HS discussion, I made this to act as a quick poll not draw in a large discussion. Seeing as how it turned to a large discussion it would be best to merge the 2 threads.

evilapprentice.6379:

No, DB doesn’t need to change to benefit from Power/feorcity, but D/D does need a change. As it stands, D/D is a subpar power set, an extremely subpar “hybrid” set, and worthless as a condition set. It’s not good for anyone.

I’m all for turning it into a real hybrid set (some copy/pasta below on the subject), but pretending like D/D is fine the way it is or would be fixed with minor tweaks to DB while ignoring the fact that every other weapon skill in D/D has no use for condition damage is naive.

Its subpar because missing a cnd means no backstab, which means most of your dps just went “phewwwww” and also because only 2/4 skills on d/d at all benefit power. That doesn’t mean you simply change everything to some hard hitter, the idea is time and place. Dancing dagger has no place on power, but could easily be made to satisfy condi/hybrid. DB could satisfy power if it evaded properly and already suits condi/hybrid.

The idea of d/d I don’t think was to spam DB, I mean look at the bleed duration. The idea was more than likely you land 1 or 2 of those, lay down some poison, and add something else to the mix however it seemed to of adapted to traditional 3 spam since its easier I guess (also the initiative cost was reduced long ago making it more common).

D/D doesn’t need a multitude of conditions to be a viable condi or hybrid set, there are traits and utilities and runes and weapon swap to complete it all. They just gata make all skills on the d/d kit have a place regardless of you being spec’ed for condi or power. Thief isn’t sitting on a lot of weapon choices, so lets not nerf any of them please.

fellyn.5083:

Necrotize.2974:

goldenwing.9654:

I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.

I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.

You really can’t apply that to everything. Sometimes people complain about things that genuinely need to be fixed. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed so the only opinion that really matters in the end is that of the devs.

Professions should be different, but you have to admit that HS is pretty obviously superior to the other warrior heals even though all it provides is health as a passive when people, especially now, are saying Adrenaline is super hard to build or that warriors have no condition removal. Maybe Adrenaline and Conditions are such a problem because no one is willing to sacrifice healing signet to use Healing Surge or Mending.

Or maybe Healing Surge and Mending are garbage and that’s why no one uses them.

More like you’re both right, and there is our problem. Anet kept addressing healing signet without looking at the other 3 healing skills or addressing the healing signet active.

killahmayne.9518:

NinjaEd.3946:

I was hopeing for quick responses, guess I replicated the other post on this exact page O.o

In response to poison, how is it any different from applying poison other profession’s heals which do not cleanse conditions? Also Healing signet is 100% uptime, so the second you take 1 damage it will tick, other healing skills you have to plan for the best possible time to use it.

Lastly, while ~380 health may not seem like a lot, that’s 380 health on a heavy armor profession which more often than not has numerous defenses in their build. Simple example, I would never take healing signet if it was given to my thief even if it was healing me for a large % of my health. Thief naturally gets hit hard given their viable builds don’t invest into a load of toughness. You see the exact opposite result on warrior however because ~380 health is something you can fight with.

An update to the other 3 healing skills would be a great move, but feels like it’d be a power creep without addressing the real problem. Should hit both places at once and address the entire selection of warrior healing skills so no 1 option is superior in an overall build.

I think you missed the point. With active healing skills, you actually have the option if you wanted to, to completely negate the poison and heal for your full amount. Healing Signet does NOT have that option, you take the poison NO matter what, no counterplay. And some healing skills better yet bypass the healing reduction of poison.

And what is the overall net difference in having Healing Signet tick, and using your active heal to heal yourself to full?

Not all warriors invest alot into toughness, many run with 2,500 armor which isn’t a lot given the mechanics of this class. 2,500 can get spiked very hard, and healing signet would not help them very much. People need to get out of the archetype of light, medium and heavy because of factors of healing, stealth, protection, etc that add many intangibles into the equation. They do not impact tankiness as much as people think. For example, the main reason why a Warrior is considered tanky isn’t because they have 150 more armor than a thief at base value.

As a warrior, well should say any profession, you have the choice to run with effective condition removal and warrior has solid options. Cleansing ire, soldier runes with shouts, zerker stance (to ignore any additional applications), brawler’s recovery, generosity sigil (atleast for pvp, wvw/pve is impractical given its cost), shake/shrug it off, etc.

I think only guardian has the potential to heal to “full” with their active because A) signet of resolve heals for a lot and scales off healing power well, and guardian is the lowest health tier so reaching high % health is easier than say a necro using consume conditions with multiple of them. The difference however is with active heals such as withdraw, consume conditions, healing turret (although pretty kitten strong imo), is that you have to find the best time to use those, you wouldn’t pop a 4-6k heal when you were just hit for 2k.

While you are taken down and planning to halt all offense to pop your heal, healing signet lets you continue your rampage. At worst you have to pop shield stance or use ww and rush to fall back and have HS heal you to the fullest amount but those active defenses compliment healing signet and are what I would call unbalanced. I wouldn’t say HS as a skill is necessarily OP, but it is definitely up being on a class with skills like endure pain, shield stance, or heavy vigor for quicker dodges, and having the highest armor rating (heavy armor) and health pool. The armor makes each tick of HS that much more valuable and the high health basically gives your active defensive skills a chance to come off cooldown so you can protect HS and resume your offense.

Not having to take extra time off to actually recover with an active heal and just letting your passive do its thing with no downside isn’t the kind of passive that should be available to any profession. Poison can be removed just like it can be applied and is no different from using shelter or withdraw or troll’s unguent with poison on. I do not want to see healing signet flat out nerfed, I want to see mending/healing surge/defiant stance improved overall (not just a number’s increase) and a suitable adjustment to the active and passive of healing signet that will still keep it in serious play even if it requires a small trait investment to best utilize it.

to the moderator watching over our choice of words, feel free to just merge this thread with the other one on this page. I didn’t expect long response when I made this thread, but since it took that route it doesn’t seem necessary to have 2 threads on the same exact topic. Thank you!

I was hopeing for quick responses, guess I replicated the other post on this exact page O.o

In response to poison, how is it any different from applying poison other profession’s heals which do not cleanse conditions? Also Healing signet is 100% uptime, so the second you take 1 damage it will tick, other healing skills you have to plan for the best possible time to use it.

Lastly, while ~380 health may not seem like a lot, that’s 380 health on a heavy armor profession which more often than not has numerous defenses in their build. Simple example, I would never take healing signet if it was given to my thief even if it was healing me for a large % of my health. Thief naturally gets hit hard given their viable builds don’t invest into a load of toughness. You see the exact opposite result on warrior however because ~380 health is something you can fight with.

An update to the other 3 healing skills would be a great move, but feels like it’d be a power creep without addressing the real problem. Should hit both places at once and address the entire selection of warrior healing skills so no 1 option is superior in an overall build.

evilapprentice.6379:

Einlanzer.1627:

kitten .9460:

Einlanzer.1627:

No thank you.

Frankly, making DB a power skill wouldn’t make sense, since D/D is already fully functional as a power set and the only other melee option is power-only.

It doesn’t need to be changed, except for maybe tuning the evade a bit. It functions very effectively as a bleed stacker and allows D/D to have a little versatility. It’s also very flavorful. Anyone who thinks it’s weak or useless doesn’t know what they’re talking about and is just stuck in myopic perpetual backstab mode.

DB is a terrible skill I’ve mained thief since day 1… it is just bad, glad you can find some joy in 3 spamming on immobile AI though.

Try using it against another player in yolo or team queue or even a dungeon and watch as the group laughs at you and expect a swift kick.

Doesn’t make sense to have it condi based on an obvious power set.

Except it isn’t. Layering it on top of Caltrops is the most effective bleed stacking in the game, hands down.

For things too stupid to walk out of the caltrop AoE and incapable of cleanses, IE things that nearly any spec would work on. Just because something works on dumbkitten AI and kittenty players does not make it viable or well designed. If you still want to mindlessly spam 3 in PvE, you can always roll S/P.

And yes, it does. It’s called versatility. Stop being myopic.

No, it’s called poor design – the set is too disjointed. For any specific weapon skill, you’re only ever using one set of DPS stats – every time you DB, every point you have in power, precision and ferocity is wasted. Every time you use any other skill in the set, your condition damage is absolutely worthless. This is a great example of poor design.

DB doesn’t need to function as another hard hitter for your power/prec/ferocity to be “useful” there. It just needs to evade reliably and be a skill shot. Makes “3 spam” harder, the aftercast will make you vulnerable but atleast you would be able to time your initiative evasion rather than do a ballerina dance as they strike a hammer down on you.

Slugonaut.9841:

And on a side note, I have to say, I hate the idea of runes being able to make or break a build/weapon set. It happens way too often in this game………….

Amen, amen to that..

nicknamenick.2437:

Speak for yourself pls,

I like it because it gives me more time to focus on my target.

Warriors dont have many ways to create some time for healing moments, thats why i love HS.

If you dont like its passive then use healing surge.
Becausr that healing skill does better vs poison classes.

This seems just another nerf topic to me, just stop it.

I have no intention of requesting a nerf to HS, I’m simply asking if people think Healing signet is a skill that needs no attention.To be perfectly honest, I’d be in favor of buffing Healing signet (both active and passive) if it meant the effect wasn’t as ridiculous as it is now. No matter the numbers they tweak, it should get a functionality change imo.

I’d say any signet which harms you for using the active because the passive is stronger than the alternative healing options is a poorly designed skill but that’s just my opinion. I’m more interested in other people’s thoughts.

fellyn.5083:

Nono, I was just pointing out the irony that you don’t like a certain behavior you deem toxic yet you perpetuate your own toxic behavior in retaliation.

Here’s a tip for you. If you don’t like speed runs you can either; 1) create your own groups or 2) don’t join groups advertised as speed runs. It’s really pretty simple.

Sometimes when I don’t care about getting through a dungeon fast or I’m playing a newly made character and still learning it and/or gearing it I advertise my party as casual and guess what? People join who don’t care about how fast we clear or how geared we are. It’s crazy, I know. And usually those groups end up being better than the speed run groups.

I also gotta ask, what do you report those people for? Taking a dungeon run too seriously? And do you realize abusing the report button (it says in the dialog window) can get you banned?

In any event, this has nothing to do with warriors or healing sig. Which are fine for the most part.

Well I’d say what I’ve done (since I stopped playing) is far less severe than getting towards the end of a dungeon and vote kicking someone because they d/c for like 2 minutes only to PM me after reconnecting thinking I was the one who was responsible. That is just 1 example of toxic LFG members I’ve come across, I’ve got dozens more to share.

You can advertise you want only norn males who use cultural armor and whatever else you want, most people do not follow those messages sadly. Simple example, I will join a group advertised as <insert dungeon name here> lf(x)m, the most basic post anyone would lay. Join the group, it either has hardcore kittens asking to link your gear, or they leave if you don’t fill up in under 30 seconds, or they join the group and say things like “wt*, a ranger?”, etc. So whether it was false advertised or some kittens joined in its not exactly avoidable. And the LFG system is across all servers so it’s not like I’m on a rotten server because they are almost all rotten.

In the case of reporting them, it’s often verbal abuse because it ends up being present. Whether its unnecessary rude statements or flat out caps-lock yelling, it usually shows up and I’m really glad anet never added in-game voice chat because I would have GW2 on mute 24/7.

Worst case I’ve had was one of the arah paths, can’t recall which but I was going for dungeon master title. We got to the 2nd or 3rd to last boss and kept wiping again and again. Tried different set ups but they didn’t work but one thing never changed, 1 kitten just kept flipping. We kept telling him to relax, we’re trying, etc etc finally he just says some ridiculous statement in party chat and rage quits, so we post on the lfg site (before the in-game lfg system was added) and a guy joins. We try again, and what-do-ya-know, we beat the boss (think it was the 6 gods path at dwayna or lyssa where its a dps trial). Sure enough, the 4 of us that were there from the start laugh at what a kitten the other guy was and I reported him for verbal abuse. So yeah, when I come across people who are just plain rude you bet I’m going to make them feel bad and immediately add them to the block list so I don’t come across them again. A little childish but this game is riddled with immature brats and I just don’t care to stress over them. Same reason I find people’s “optimal” dps set up to be pathetic because the player experience and build are far more important than having 1war/1ele/2guard/1 thief or w/e other non-sense comp people come up with. If you got a brain and up-to-date gear (not necessarily ascended) you can beat a dungeon comparable to a “speed clear”.

Yay, or ney?

This is whether or not healing signet (as it is now) is a well made balanced skill and doesn’t need a functionality or number change. This relates to both the passive and active as a whole.

Harper.4173:

I too would like to find it but forum search is broken.

Problem is this – you might think you’ve seen a lot of players dislike it – but since you dislike it yourself you’re only seeing what you want to see.
Because bias.

There are a lot more things people dislike more that will never be changed – I don’t see how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it.

Nothing in a game will be universally liked.

Google search OP…..

I don’t think, I’ve literally seen. You’d have to be new to the game to not come across the numerous posts that HS is bad or that warrior is easy-mode, or anything of the sort. The topic however is a dead horse and isn’t being beaten as much these days.

If you wana talk about how “how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it”, I beg you to play thief and enjoy the perspective there.

Nice how you will rapid fire posts but won’t actually go to the trouble to find out what people think on HS. Here I’ll help you-

fellyn.5083:

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

I find it amusing that you say you’ll kick people from a group because they expect everyone in the run to know what they’re doing because you claim it’s toxic behavior.

Yet you’re perfectly okay with kicking people from the group, reporting them, and “loling” at them after you’ve done so.

Lets talk about that toxic behavior..

Funny that you would cater a Q.Q player rather than let them know how it feels to be kicked for stupid kitten.

I could care less for clearing a dungeon in the best time possible, there is no reward for it and I play the game to pass time not squeeze my kitten through the screen to let everyone know I’m pro. So yeah, I’d gladly make such a player feel bad for being a bad egg. Not much else I can or would want to do, because it wouldn’t be worth listening too.

1): reduce bleed duration on auto attack to 2 seconds and increase the attack speed slightly.
2): Increase bleed duration on sneak attack to 7 seconds.
3):Remove vulnerability from body shot and replace with a debuff “wound”. Projectile finishers against wounded targets are inflicted with vulnerability (1 stack->5 seconds). Wound duration 4 seconds. (only successful projectile finishers so unload and auto attack have 20% for this effect. It will however work with ally projectile finishers).
4): for bps, increase pulse speed back to 1 second, reduce field duration to 3 seconds, maintain the 2 seconds of blind.

As for traits,

1): additional effect to pistol mastery, “unload has a 50% projectile finisher chance now”. Now a master trait.
2): Ankle shots changed to “critical hits against wounded targets have a chance to inflict cripple”. 20% chance for 2 seconds. No ICD. Ankle shots is now an adept trait. (swap with pistol mastery).
3): Combo critical chance changed to “Dual precision”, gain increased critical strike chance by 7% when dual wielding the same weapon. Seeing as how its a master trait giving 5% now and effects only 1 skill rather than picking side strike and getting 7% on all (flanking) hits. Just seems more practical this way.
4): Ricochet fine as is.

Intended result: Since p/d has stealth access and shadow strike (torment+gap opener) I’d say give the respective builds their damage source without stepping on each others toes. If the aa was simply buffed with more direct damage it only slightly helps p/p but also helps p/d hybrid. The whole p/p kit should function with its left and right gun skills, not depend on 1 skill.

The way I see pistols on thief, p/p power would use the aa for regular pressure, body shot followed by either unload or more auto attacks to rack up some vulnerability, unload for little spikes rather than spamming it, having bps to couple with pistol mastery (and body shot’s “wound” effect) so you can keep your blind defenses up and lay down more pressure without feeling obligated to only press 3 until you win. Ultimately you would be kiting them to some degree and spike them with unload at times with all skills being regularly used. Also with ankle shots you can better keep a distance so you can rack up the vuln stacks and dish out a stronger #3.

With the changes, p/d wouldn’t really receive any buffs. The auto attack certainly takes a dive even if it is quicker but it is compensated in its heavy stacker which not only is slightly longer, gets an even better benefit from bleed duration (x% is better on 7 than 5). It takes out the easy condi pressure that p/d uses to kite with but gives a strong punch if they get a cnd-> sneak attack combo in giving more counterplay for the enemy, and potentially more reward for the thief. With the “wound” effect not only would cnd add some vuln stacks, but sneak attack (being a 100% finisher X5) would really start to burry your opponent in conditions which helps p/d hybrid a little (nothing special for p/d pure condi). Above all I don’t think condi weapon sets should have strong pressure on their auto attack, it should come from skills that are nasty but avoidable.

Overall I think it’d be the right idea to buff p/p without giving p/d (an already over complained about build) anymore melting tools. Numbers are just for show, they mean next to nothing.

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Dungeon speed clear, number of warrior is 1 Max. (if going for fastest) because there are 4 classes with better dps, warrior is there mainly for damage buffs.
in WvW guardian is way better in terms of the same role, a group of 10 guardians will steamroll a group of 10 warriors.

Based on what calculation exactly? Only obvious contender is ele because of frostbow for the #4 as far as pve goes, rest is entirely objective. You also have to factor in which class is easier to play and can still perform. I’ve had a wide mix of groups from the occasional engi, necro, ranger even but warrior has always been the most common. Every now and then I see more guardian over warrior but very rarely and likely a random result of the LFG system. I can’t recall doing a fotm 40+ or cof/ac/coe/etc run without warrior(s) in the mix.

Even if you ran 100 dungeons with mostly guardians vs warriors you still have to factor in slip ups, people’s gear, people’s build, etc. Doubt you’d be able to pull anything noticeably different between the 2 times.

fellyn.5083:

Because as we all know forum posters and pvpers make up the majority of the player base.

It’s almost like you guys forget that there are 2 more game modes in the game. Both of which are far more popular than pvp.

Also I’ve hung out in the mist. I’ve never seen anyone complain about healing sig. So if we’re talking anecdotal (at best) evidence, whose is more valid? Mine or yours?

You wana hang in wvw and take a head count of warriors? How about speed clear groups for pve?

Watching paint dry isn’t going to teach you anything, if you read anything I said I suggested you take a poll or ask people for their take on HS. I never said it was the hot topic in all of the game that you could come across regularly in map chat when you log/zone in. The most probable place to find balance talk would be in hotm though, where it is more relevant.

Still waiting on that link to the anet statement on HS buff.

Harper.4173:

Again with the " large number of players" which you don’t even know.
Also HS was the skill chosen because they wanted to give warrior “passive sustain”. You can’t do that unless you buff a passive skill.

The proof on the “large number of players”, just hop into hotm map chat or browse these forums and see how many people dislike Healing signet. Hell, make a poll and ask how many people think healing signet is a well made skill in its current form. I think this post and all the others before are more than enough to show that even if they tweaked with the numbers it is a poorly made skill. I’d go so far as to say it is toxic for warrior and is the root to many Q.Q when they couple this with build X Y or Z. It simply is too good on the warrior kit, but shouldn’t exist anywhere given it has all reward and almost no risk (I did say almost).

I’d love for you to pull the quote where anet preferred a “passive” sustain alternative.

You pretty much summed up what this thread would be, except the first part. You don’t need to go 6 into DA, 1 extra strike helps but it doesn’t make the build. The cd reduction and venomshare are essential for the “venomshare” build but that’s the problem. It’s a “venomshare” not a “venom” build, they don’t stand alone too well. BV and DV are the only venoms who can put a dent into someone without investing into venoms too deeply, but it’s just not that high of a pay off with so many means to waste the venom strikes.

They don’t need to break stun or grant mobility, a condi xfer would be nice (which I’ve posted for a lot cough karka venom cough), but you should be able to slot 1 or 2 venoms (excluding BV) and not feel obligated to invest deeply into it’s respective traits. Traits should help but they should not define a whole skill set just to function or be viable.

Although I won’t play with it for x amount of months (or years), I liked hearing about these necro changes. Not only did they address it moderately they showed what people have asked for in other forms of sustain and explained why this was a step in the right direction.

Good things do come in small packages (every once in awhile)

Coloxeus.3480:

Proposed Critical Strikes Master Trait Buff
Critical Haste: You have a chance to gain quickness on a critical hit
*Increase Quickness duration from 2secs. to 3secs. increase trigger chance to 50%
Combo Critical Chance:Dual skills have increased critical-hit chance.
*Increase Critical Chance from 5% to 7%
Signet Use:Gain initiative when activating a signet. Reduces recharge on signets.
*Increase Initiative Gain from 1 to 2

Detour?

Also the signet trait was nerfed long ago because our base initiative regen was buffed. I doubt they would revert that one.

Kagamiku.9731:

It reduces the CD of the elite trait Basilisk Venom…Which a lot of people use.

Because the alternatives are meh.

They still think venom’s give massive condi damage, so don’t get your hopes up.

Harper.4173:

Because the way they want the class is they want warrior in a sturdy spot without them having to go into healing power.

The class needs to pack a punch. If you want extra healing you can go for it in a build but the idea was to give a viable heal to non-healing power oriented builds.

They specifically said this.

The skill is fine as it is – the way you want to make it goes against the philosophy they used when they actually made the skill.

The whole point is to have other builds have a strong heal and not force warrior into a bunker role ( since Guardian is already superior in that position).

If that’s the case why did they choose to add insult to injury making the passive option their best one? Warrior has a ton of ridicule because of their passive defenses being so up

My option may not be the best, but let’s not pretend that everything anet does is for the better good. Some things help, some things don’t, the whole point is to reassess and act. They had 3 healing skills to work with at the time and they choose the easiest path which has had nothing but disapproval of amongst a large sum of players. I’d say something was done wrong and should of been fully addressed long ago rather than shaving a small % off the passive and ignore the active along with 3 other healing skills. That’s just wrong.

Guardian being the best bunker falls back into what was promised from the start, every class can play every role. There is fine print along with that but you’d think the only other heavy armor profession with AoE healing and regen would be able to fight for the bunker role without depending entirely on their choice of healing skill (being passive)? Again, that’s just wrong.

Bottom line they tried something, and its visibly blown up in their face and nothing has been address on it. The lack of action on these kinds of things is what ticks me off.

vincecontix.1264:

Thief is in a decent spot atm that’s probably why there weren’t to many changes.

Decent but compared to what the community wants, horrid. You’d think there would be viable diversity by this time and some attention to useless/bugged traits and utilities but nope.

Same class, just a different patch.

Harper.4173:

Did people complain about HS being not fun to play against before it was buffed?
You know? When it only healed for about 200hps?
Did they? No – they didn’t.

It wasn’t OP at 50% effectiveness, and for months after the buff no one really expected ~400 health per second uninterrupted would be strong to begin with, until they realize what warrior is capable of.

When they shaved 7% or 16% w/e after promising a compensation to the active and instead just shaved it, that was dead wrong of them. The passive still imho is too strong being that it has such a high base value and let’s a majority of warrior builds focus entirely on offense letting HS tick them up throughout the fight. If the idea of the HS buff (from what I’ve heard in the past) was to put warrior’s in a sturdy position so they cannot be booted out of a fight so easily, why is the base value soo good?

I’d have no problem if HS was slightly buffed overall on a healing power orientated build, atleast a warrior like that would have a better position as a bunker but wouldn’t be sniping people as easily. By this I mean nerf HS for non-healing power builds but a slight amount and a large amount of healing power you will start to see quite a difference. It’s the sacrafise of an offense stat for a defensive one that I think would be more than fair.

At the same time (so all or none), address the active of HS and the other healing skill options for kitten’s sake.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NinjaEd.3946:

-snip- Quip about Stability

6- warrior skill level is below the sewers and its place in pve/wvw/pvp is most certainly not. No class should be this forgiving when it makes mistakes, but with the adrenaline “super nerf” they are slowly getting there. Enjoy your passive play style while you can.

Guardians have highest stability access.

I wouldnt call Warrior skill floor low with all of the decap engies, rangers, C-eles, Terrormancers, and P-Mesmers out there.

Skill ceiling is low though. In higher tier play, Warriors are incredibly weak 1v1 because of their passivity.

If warrior skill ceiling is increased to allow them better control over their combat to compensate for the presumed need for a rising skill floor, I am all for it. All people seem to be concerned about is hiking up the skill floor so that people founder aimlessly with them, while giving no opinion or suggestion as to how the ceiling could be improved to make them even remotely relevant in High tier play (because apparently bunker is too passive as well.)

Make them difficult to play with only an average reward? While “drop crate to win, its okay ill just stealth” exist? Good luck.

Meanwhile guardians, who decap points all day and outclass warriors if they spec medi, have absolutely nothing said about them.

It seems warrior is the only class that needs to ‘prove its worth’ to anyone else , while the other classes are happily being just as passive with skills and class mechanics instead of minimalistic healing that can’t mitigate burst.

Let anet do as they please though. The people that abuse the ‘cheap’ tactics warrior has won’t just vanish if Anet decides to listen to this drivel. Theyll just move on to something just as easy and make their passivity more glaring, like they did with the ranger buff.

At the base of it all, the uptime of stability on warrior excels still even if you only compare balanced stance to SyG. Add boon duration and balanced stance (which has a higher base) will take the lead even further, add traits and still. That is just 1 of 2 normal stability sources warrior has, guardian has 2 but 1 of them requires you to stand in an AoE drop zone and has a longer cooldown. Guardian certainly competes but it does not have a higher uptime on stability.

I would definitely call warrior skill level low, but I never said lowest. I’m aware of the “cheese” builds that sit there and press a few buttons and let AI do the rest. Despite these builds being very common, it doesn’t mean warrior is difficult to play as an overall class or any of its known builds.

All I ever want is compromise, flat nerfs do nothing good. Lose some gain some elsewhere, that is how balance should be.

They should imo pursue the removal of low risk high reward builds across all professions. It won’t happen in 1 patch, it certainly won’t happen anytime within this year, but keep at their removal until there are no easy wins for people. Balance is constantly changing with, like people you said, who just move to the next thing. It’d be a very sad world if everyone just gave up when a new problem arose. Kind of hard to accomplish anything close to that with semiannual patches though…

Perfectly balanced condi auto attack, please leave it alone, don’t want more free condi spam. Thank you.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

unlucky.9285:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

erm…. stances and high ammounts of cc are not ways to avoid damage? who knew

stances have short duration, long recharge time.

berserker stance does not remove existing conditions.

endure pain does not prevent existing conditions from bleeding poisoning burning the warrior away.

balanced stance is not a true stance as stability applied via balanced stance can be easily removed.

cc skills have large telegraphs and can be avoided by the opponent via dodges, blocks, blinds, etc.

seriously, warriors are not overpowered.
stop whining already.

1- So you want them to have high up time? That would be awful balance given their current properties.

2- Its no different from shelter lasting a mere 1.25 seconds yet people can use it to mitigate a very large sum of damage. You have to know how to use your skills properly to see any effect.

3- not all stances are invulnerabilities, again it would be awful balance if they were. You shouldn’t be dependent on stances alone anyways to keep you alive.

4- there are not a whole lot of boon removal/conversion options aside from necro and Mesmer. Even so, warrior has the highest access to stability. I hope people realize that stability is a very strong boon to have in this game.

5- fear me says hello^^ Also regardless of cc being telegraphed, you cannot dodge everything forever and warrior has a lot of access to cc. Its not impossible to just smash 1-5 with some random other cc (burst, utility) and having something land long enough for you to put a dent in your foe.

6- warrior skill level is below the sewers and its place in pve/wvw/pvp is most certainly not. No class should be this forgiving when it makes mistakes, but with the adrenaline “super nerf” they are slowly getting there. Enjoy your passive play style while you can.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey guys, folks, lords and ladies, whatever…

You’re welcome to have a different opinion than the OP. You’re welcome to say it. But don’t make snarky or insulting comments, please. If your opinion has value, you don’t need put-downs to make your point, hmmmm?

Thanks.

Would be nice if people followed such rules ^^

ExtraCosmic.9082:

The main problem with the passive eating lifeforce is that the death shroud mechanic is the necromancer’s main form of damage-absorption, in the absence of blocks, movement skills, invincibility, etc. A healing skill that’s always draining your supply is kind of going against the mechanic; you need the healing just to undo the extra damage you’ll take without death shroud. However, I can see that working as part of the active, perhaps consuming your lifeforce in one go and healing you on the amount lost.

It’s really just a different method of using DS to sustain. Rather than entering the form and having it slowly drain so that you can use 5 new skills, it moderately maintains the effect letting you stay out of it (it wouldn’t be a 100% conversion rate). You’d still be able to enter DS for a quick fear or life xfer or tainted shackles but overall such a build would not rely on entering DS for any sustain and that is just if you had the passive going. The active still needs work and removing the ICD for the necro imo would be the 1st step.

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

You are competing for the worst balance analysis right now after that. You think healing for ~4.5k on a thief at all equates to ~380 per second on a tanky profession? You are looking at 1 set of numbers and blindly comparing them, and it is making it hard to take anything you say seriously. Also obsiean flesh is a 50 second cooldown lasting 4 seconds on the ele kit, warrior stances can adapt to the fight without wasting them aside from rolling their face on the keyboard when someone spikes them.

Actually you are really competing with the worst analyze right now, because you are actually the one who simply compare one number to another. by your very means, healing surge should be one of the best heals in the game, because it heals for 10k and mending is clearly better then withdraw, because it heals more and remove more conditions. no that’s not how it works, you need to look at the bigger picture which you are clearly not doing, you lie to yourself how other people not seeing the big picture while you are the one who only sees a tiny side of it. also about obe flesh, it still does not change the fact that this one skill is better then 3 stances combined, it was merely a simple example, if you really want to compare the whole weapon set, focus air 4 can completely ignore all attack of longbow, really, when warrior switch to longbow you open focus air 4, you negate all his attacks. also nor like you know how two of the stances are 60 CD and how other classes got better offensive and defensive options, like all the other examples i’ve listed which you decided to ignore, because of your ego.

You’re just pulling things out of thin air at this point. I’d take the time to address the multiple factors that swoop right over your head but it’d do no good.

You flip flop like a fishy politician and I have no business with you anymore.

d/d is not a good weapon set for fractal, but atleast you got the gear (although you’ll die in 1 hit).

Unless your doing condi d/d is not beneficial to the group because it is single target and also requires you to keep breaking LoS which can be problematic in certain cases such as defending someone on a switch or trying to hold some enemies back while your party is rallying an downed ally.

S/X (primarily s/p) is the best because of the aoe blind for your group’s defense and also the cleaving auto attack and PW. D/d might be great on certain boss encounters but overall is a poor choice for fractals.

For wvw it’s fine, although again with your full on zerker you’ll probably melt in a few seconds if your prey is at all prepared for your ambush.

s/s (vuln stacking/preparation)
1- sword AA chain
2- inf strike
3- sword dance (rush forward causing vulnerability on up to 3 enemies, vulnerability duration 8 seconds X1, rush is a forward non-skill shot or target related, rush distance 350, deals minor damage meant for multi-hit proc effects such as SoM and vuln stacking, each rush consumes 15 endurance as well) [3 initiative each leap]
4- Bladed defense (reflect projectile only, 1/2 second time frame, and enemy melee attack will disable OH sword skills for 3 seconds during this time frame) [4 initiative]
5- Assassinate (charge up a downward thrust which will cause knockdown if you started this channel from a higher elevation (300 units?) from your target, 3/4 second channel deals high damage, knockdown duration 1.5 seconds. If used on regular elevation you simply charge up an attack for 3/4 seconds but higher elevation you will immediately execute your attack upon landing once you exceed 300 units falling.) [6 initiative]

D/S (dirty fighter)
3- Transfer of wounds slash your foe and perform a quick thrust of the dagger transferring 1 condition to your foe, deals light damage, missing the sword slash will cause cripple on you for 2 seconds) [4 initiative]

P/S (melee pistol fighter)
3- Brutal wound (stab your foe, if you strike from the front you follow the stab with a powerful shot) [5 initiative]

shadowpass.4236:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZUQNAV6Yl0MpbudNx7J8PNBMhwVPv/eut2JaEA-TFCEABsp+TJ6GgZ/BBVCKxDBQLlfIcEAA4CAEAABgduzdezbezSBAxuK-w

This would be extremely annoying to fight. Lol

Until they 2v1 you and rip you a new one, or teleport, or gain condi immunity, or out-range you in dps, or get kicked for afk for sitting still for too long.

:)

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

As for blocks/blind/stealth/etc, it is no different that a warrior having stances, perma vigor, blocks/reflects, gap openers, cc, etc. .

you simply don’t understand the fact that one skill on focus of ele is more powerful then 3 stances combined together, nor like you understand how good are instant cast able blocks. nor like you understand how teleportation is better then any gap closer or disengage warrior has, nor like you understand how good is protection, nor like you understand evade is the closes thing to invulnerability, nor like you understand how much benefit you get from having 15+ more skills or skills without CD and a handful of soft CC available to you and etc. these are the things that balance with warrior’s extra health, less so the healing skills. The higher the % of your HP pool a healing skill heals, the more valuable it is. not the amount it heals, also the lower the CD the better cuz sustain, really just a ratio between CD and % heal, but i guess you understand non of these, because you probably only play thieves and have little multi class pvp experience. really, you can go play a mending or healing surge warrior against anything non-noob, you will notice how the healing skill which has the most burst heal(10k hp with 30 CD and 5.5k hp with 15 CD)are part of the worst heal in the game.

and you clearly did not read what OP posted in his thread, i like how you just assume i was talking to you without me quoting you. really funny of your part.

You are competing for the worst balance analysis right now after that. You think healing for ~4.5k on a thief at all equates to ~380 per second on a tanky profession? You are looking at 1 set of numbers and blindly comparing them, and it is making it hard to take anything you say seriously. Also obsiean flesh is a 50 second cooldown lasting 4 seconds on the ele kit, warrior stances can adapt to the fight without wasting them aside from rolling their face on the keyboard when someone spikes them.

And no evasion does not equal invulnerability, there are unblockable walls/rings and there is a thing called baiting. Even if evasion is your arguement, there are methods of a warrior maintaining perma-vigor with little effort. If you wana compare defensive weapon skills blindly I’m going to just laugh if you think warrior has the short end of the stick.

So when you wana pick up the pencil and actual compare one profession’s sustain compared to another’s, I’d suggest you start by not putting 2 mechanics right up against one another and concluding your research. You’re only seeing like 10% of the picture bud.

Manekk.6981:

NinjaEd.3946:

Too bad its not a stun breaker. I mean it gives you stability, but I guess it’d be a little too much in 1 skill.

I’d be ok with dropping the speed bonus for it to break stun O.o

Stunbreaker with a slow cast then xD I’d drop the speed too for instant cast and stunbreaker (not the least since i’ve never experienced this speed xD)

The way speed works in this game is the highest bonus is applied, nothing stacks. So if you have +50% from super speed and swiftness, you’ll only be effected by super speed for its duration and then swiftness will take over afterwards. So that 25% is there, you just rarely will experience it on a ranger on certain builds (a lot of swiftness on ranger kit).

Simon.3794:

You simply forget the fact that other classes’ heals heal more % of their HP pool
compare warriors’ heals to warrior’s health pool
Which means their heals are more valuable compared to warriors ones, that’s why even most of the warrior heals heal a lot, bring those heals would mean death sentence to warrior.

and other classes maintain their health by such as guardian blocks, thief stealth, dodges, clone blocks, blind fields, chaos fields, invulnerability and tons of other sustain abilities.

but i do agree all passive signet heals are bad design, but, there’s no viable heal for warrior other than signet.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT, what, what did i just read, so it’s a thread in disguise.

so in the end, you just want to buff the one of the most OP build (dd ele) in the game right? great, great, great, why did i even take you seriously.

So you figure that the highest health tier profession has a low percent of their max health being healed that people must have extra damage against it? I don’t get your math at all, you simply threw out the million other elements that make up a profession’s defense and looked at the worst possible number. Nice try.

As for blocks/blind/stealth/etc, it is no different that a warrior having stances, perma vigor, blocks/reflects, gap openers, cc, etc. Every class has options in defending themselves, but healing signet is the obvious outlier where you don’t have to do anything and it works better than the alternatives. Ever since the buff to HS, there has been no contender and HS passive isn’t the only one to blame. It comes down to addressing the other healing skills and HS active, none of which can compete even after they shaved 7% of w/e amount it was.

I’d love for you to quote me on saying I want a buff to ele healing signet. I’ll be awaiting that one….

kyubi.3620:

how about death blossom would deal heavy damage to poisoned target or extreme damage if used while under the effect of revealed aka the old assassin death blossom principe of finishing move post opener (with damage around or higher then heartseeker)? This would indeed make DD the ultimate glass cannon assassination set.

Would be nice to tie some skills into revealed, seeing as it is the road anet seems to be pushing against us. I still wish it was a reliable evade and a skill shot, the rest is fine though.

Too bad its not a stun breaker. I mean it gives you stability, but I guess it’d be a little too much in 1 skill.

I’d be ok with dropping the speed bonus for it to break stun O.o

sinject.4607:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Which seems contradictory considering how hard you bash IP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either are fine with Incendiary Powder and Healing signet as passive effects, or you are not. You cannot support one and condemn the other, and be balanced in your perspective.

incendiary powder has absolutely zero counterplay as it cannot be predicted or avoided thanks to the absence of any form of broadcast as well as it’s very low cooldown time + guaranteed proc rate. IP gives engineer far too much uptime on burning when coupled with balthazaar runes, a condition that can hit for anywhere between 650-700hp per tick on rabid 6/0/0/6/2 engineer. IP drastically bolsters engineer’s ranged presence and overcompensates their weakness to kiting.

healing signet has already been nerfed, is an entirely defensive tool, is very susceptible to poison and condition pressure in general, and leaves warrior without a way to recover from burst damage like active heals do.

incendiary powder is broken. healing signet is not.

i might not appreciate passive mechanics, but i’m fine with them until they carrying builds like IP does. IP simply overperforms for what it is; an entirely passive trait with zero counterplay.

Healing signet is broken on the warrior kit. They already have several methods of removing conditions, they have time frames of heavy defense, mobility on some builds to simply run and recover. Poison only goes so far, but it is easily removed and now you’re trying to take down someone who has constant condition removal and already high health/armor. A majority of warrior builds can recover from spikes just by simple retaliation (not the boon) and/or putting up those defensive options and letting HS tick them back up and it cannot be removed.

They don’t have to press a single button and they get all this healing while most other healing skills the other 7 professions use are small bursts with thought behind them. For example, shelter on guardian or withdraw on thief can be used to avoid bursts and to heal but it is an active and a cooldown they have to pay attention to, healing signet you can play normally and not make those decisions ever. Passive play is pathetic for a game meant to be fast paced. That goes for offensive and defensive mechanics like IP and nightmare runes, the game shouldn’t play for you.

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I included traits in my list, there. The fact remains that it would be a signet passive that requires further investment in the build to have any effect at all.

Also, signet passives are disabled in death shroud. Just an FYI.

So……..I still like my original idea…

No one else does? A passive that Leeches(vampiric) from enemies into our life force pool while converting life force into health per second. Like I said someone else can crunch the numbers but as a concept I think it has risk and reward and it fits thematically. And since the passive will be cancelled in death shroud there is no worry about some weird interactions.

I am a little too high to think up an active. Like I said in my original post I would have it like warrior healing signet so the active would be almost moot…. Maybe something gimmicky.. like

Active: Cast time 1 sec- Summon and sacrifice demonic angel giving 100% life force 180cd…. Probably super op haha

Big whopping NO to making it another healing signet where the active is moot. Only the ele signet I feel is proper because they can trait to maintain passives with signets on cooldown and the active isn’t game breaking, I hate the thief/warrior/necro/Mesmer signets. Thief you never want to use the active, warrior same, Mesmer you just kite and stealth and easily maintain the strong passive (I don’t see them use the active much even though it looks neat :<). Less passive options more quick thinking. Signet’s should be a nice little bonus, the active should be worth using time to time.

As far as your suggested passive, a limitless AoE attack/self healing just doesn’t seem balanced at all. The conversion of life force gain to healing every x seconds I like (didn’t realize I posted something very similar to it) but there is no way to work the numbers on a mechanic like that. It’d either be incredibly overpowered or incredibly underwhelming.

hihey.1075:

Thief is not UP.

+1

xXBurningEmberXx.6085:

How am I not generating the 10k I c in vids? Has is been needed?

Where have you been exactly? Thief has been nerfed a lot since launch, and it isn’t going to get any better. If you want to play like thief did back from the beginning best you pick a new profession and save the effort.

Man, this community is so toxic its disgusting. Even in game there are so many people who are just bad eggs, and I remember people saying console was the only place for bad players.

Finding less and less reasons to skim these forums.

Fact: Only thief receives nerfs to overpowered builds due to forum Q.Q.

Result: Be not afraid if you are a ranger. You may get tweaked once every 6 months though.

DeceiverX.8361:

It does full damage from behind, and half from the front.

No, no, it does full damage at front and double damage from behind.

:)

sinject.4607:

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

cuz its wack yo.