Guild Wars 2

Power necro vs blinds and interrupts usually ends quickly for said necro. Life blast is quite slow and thanks to projectile mechanics can often reset w/o casting.

I would not put power necro at the top of the “easy mode” list but it is not as thoughtful as some power builds depending on how you run it. With my build I use non-DS form as utility lol.

T2 health sure opens up some doors, you really can’t go wrong with either one. The key is to decide what you want your build to do and where it’s role comes from and expand on that. Once you figure those things out, look for the gear (or amulet) that gives you the stats most fit for your build.

Spiders since they apply a venom onto their next hit. And they’re ranged so they don’t spend their remaining life span walking around a ledge to bite the enemy for 200.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Title says it. A lot of skills these days are getting telegraphs because of OP problems. Steal does many things when traited: daze, rip and steal boons, stealth, and damage

It seems to be unblockable as well.

No other profession has a skill that can do this much crippling damage to a player. Mesmer has moa which is unblockable but it is also an elite.

At least give steal a tell so people can dodge it , maybe even a slower teleport that shows a trail or how about change the skill so it can only be used in melee( makes perfect sense to add a tiny bit of realism into a fantasy game) . So far its just luck and uncanny anticipation. Anet nerfed point blank shot, so why not this?

Seems like you need to stick to pve if you want telegraphed skills.

100% of skills from stealth =/= telegraphed, should we nerf them too?

If you’re going for backstabs I’d say hidden killer over executioner with zerker/valk. Gives that much need health boost that thief naturally lacks, keeps dmg real high and guartunees that your primary damage (backstab) is going to perform and not sulk in a 4k non-crit.

That’s just my preference though. I do enjoy executioner a lot just not on d/x.

I hope next april fools they bring all of these nerfs to light for that day. I want to experience the community’s vision of thief ^^

I just wish thief could break LOS of dev’s O.o

No need to change SR IMO, its got its share of rather obvious counters and it definitely brings some group utility for the thief. Balanced all around no matter what roamers say.

You shouldn’t put up 1 weapon kit right up against another profession’s weapon kit and judge it as balance. Call of the wild is simply different.

As archon pointed out though the only real problem is #4 on ranger WH is quite sad.

Best you can make is evade on point with sustain. I made a “bunker” thief build numerous months ago. It “worked” but in my eyes only. It jus doesn’t happen because of how thief lacks sustain.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Zero Day.2594:

Vizardlorde.8243:

…
Just because you are running around with a build that doesn’t take conditions into account doesnt mean that condition build should be nerfed for your sake.
…

But that’s exactly why they’re so OP… what if i dont take into account conditions, should i be penalized for playing the build i want? nope… should i be penalized for not seeing it coming? nope because i expect a “fair” fight with my opponent, where ofc i either win or force the guy to run away from my terror.

Next week youll come complaining about hammer warriors, mesmers, and engineers cause you also didnt take any stun breaks.

Then youll complain about zerker builds cause you didn’t trait or gear for vitality/toughness….
See my point you are just whining about something you don’t like that can be fixed by tweaking your build .

Solution, allow 6/6/6/6/6. Game fixed.

Arikyali.5804:

I never really understood why so many like the rock dog – at least when playing against a thief. It’s a free CnD. Aren’t strength runes just…better?

Considering the 2/6/0/0/6 build lacks condi clear, I’d say hoelbrak would be better over strength. Cripple alone is a nasty condition for d/d since it relies heavily on landing CnD which is difficult when slow.

NeXeD.3042:

Changes like this would need the entire game to be rebalanced…

It’s not like the game is balanced atm. I mean sure things aren’t going to be picture perfect but there are a number of cancerous builds and a laundry list of “kitten?” builds that do not see the day of light.

I think it’s quite pathetic that any “tournament” matchup people aren’t running unique builds, they’re running the popular builds. I don’t blame those players, I blame the build choice out there that is viable in a team setting. No player should be forced down any build just to be useful even in tpvp, the range (mathematical term…) is far to great atm. Same with max health but that’s another can of worms for another thread.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Alright meow, what’s going on here?

There it is!

Meow wrap this up.

I give my meaningless approval in hopes that this thread will reach a Dev’s eyes. Overall good and healthy changes (if done right).

Still a long ways to go before all traits are worth looking at, let alone utility and pet skills.

@ Swish

Idk what meta pve builds are, sounds kitten to me but, if by wiggle room you mean overall sustainability and utility I’d still argue for thief being higher than necro. Not only do they have a surplus of blinds which are quick to reuse, they can cleave hard and ever since they let players change their traits anywhere as long as ooc, can adapt to fit perfectly into any boss fight or overall dungeon path.

Aside from stacking and using piercing Life blast with well of darkness and suffering, I don’t see the necro competing with group utility and dps. Those 2 alone is what imo puts necro below thief even if they are rather squishy.

Shinjo.6092:

coglin.1867:

caveman.5840:

snip

There are a great deal of factually false statements here. Such as stating that you need two dodges to avoid the entire skill. That is false.

Yes you are right. Rapid Fire lasts 2.5 s whereas a dodge lasts .75 s. So really, you need 4 dodges to avoid the entire skill.

Or use LoS and dodge 100% of the arrows, or reflect/absorb projectiles and avoid 100% while potentially killing that ranger if they are unaware.

There are a lot of ways to avoid projectiles, rapid fire is only complained about because it is a channel and follows all channeled skill guidelines like tracking. It’s annoying as kitten, but I can’t disagree with it because it isn’t breaking any game designs atm. I’d say working as intended.

Carighan.6758:

The profession balance forum has a very interesting purpose though: It keeps much of the whining out of the other forums.

Wha?

Look above and tell me what forum we are in. This forum is quite disgusting at times.

Posts like these are a nice reminder to those who read that the majority of “suggestions” are just the result of an unwelcome pounding towards a sensitive flower and they demand justice. No matter how ridiculous it may be…

Kako.1930:

I’m pretty sure it’s for the same reason that Skyhammer still exists.

But what about cape of Capricorn?

:O

OH dagger can be quite funny at the right time.

Overall you won’t win all the time if the p/d condi thief is quick to run but if you interrupt any key moment in their rotation such as CnD or hide in shadows or fear mark their SR, its a short fight.

Is it wrong of me to have pvt asc set on my thief then? Am I doing something wrong?!

Thank you op for listing the nerf wish list, let it be known from this day forward as the religious text for guild wars 2 tears.

Amen.

rogerwilko.6895:

@Swish
ranking necros before thiefs and saying ‘Over reliant on stealth and don’t do well in long melee combats’…
uh

Hell I only use stealth on a few fractals, we usually just run past or smoke trash mobs otw. S/p zerker is the way to go except for bosses, then you adapt.

Usually if a necro is present they are behind trying to catch up due to lack of mobility :/

Azel.4786:

Solori.6025:

Updating the sword auto would be wonderful

And I would raise you the swap the Sword #2 skills.

Solori.6025:

reverting the nerfs to shortbow now that LB has been buffed I think is neccessary, because compared to what Axe has going for it now, the shortbow isn’t as useful ( speaking from a 1v1 perspective)

I love the SB despite the heavy nerfs it took and always remembering ANET stealth nerf to it 2 years back when I use it – ANET still owes and apology for that in my book.

I would change it differently though, I believe that #1 is not bad, it just needs to remove that position requirement. At least Eagle Eye should also affect the SB, extending its range and buffing its damage, it would be a nice change – SB needs some traits for it.

SB #2, in my opinion, should change to a single arrow that consolidates the Poison duration and a buffed damage due to the single shot, and #4 should have a longer cripple duration and/or have a short duration immobilize as well. #5 is good in my opinion.

You mean swap the withdraw-leap to leap-withdraw? Hell yeah! Would be a huge QoL fix to sword imo although it’s not a bad weapon.

As for shortbow, I think all condition auto attacks should be adjusted to follow crossfire. Mindless cover up condition pressure should not be in this game, skills like engineer pistol aa and crossfire are imo the best designed because they either A) keep that 1 little variety condition in there or require some thought and can be countered.

Now I know ranger sb isn’t the best condi weapon but the 2-5 skills should be utility and condition spikes. Some weapon sets in addition to being on sets that can kite well let the aa just put out too much for little effort. For example, you can’t exactly clear a whole lot of conditions when the auto attack is putting out a damaging one every time, you’re just back to square one unless you wipe the slate clean with skills like contemplation of purity or consume conditions. Immobilized for long? Hard to get it off w/o a skill specifically removing it because of that auto attack bleed or burn or w/e.

I’m kind of surprised eagle eye doesn’t touch sb yet quickdraw and piercing arrows effect both. SB 2 is nice because it pierces and works great when shot gunned but it does seem odd to have an aoe skill on a single target weapon set. #4 is fine imo, just needs a little better bleed duration like 7 seconds (currently 5 despite tooltip, hopefully they don’t just fix the tooltip again…).

This thread still going? Can’t we just accept that the dodge button and line of sight do exist and move on?

/thread

This guy really upset that ranger got “nerfed” and thief got “buffed”?

Want to trade seats in the September FP? My ride never showed up…..

Bella Kim.4061:

@ yolo swaggins.2570
I had no choice but to become a roamer
because whenever I log into WvW
there was no commander
you said thieves are good for roaming
does that mean I must make a thief just like everyone else??
when I was roaming in WvW
90% of the encounters were thieves
does that mean I must become a part of 90% just like everyone else??

So you don’t like thief because they are viable roamers, yet how often you see thieves in blobs?

Don’t like the game mode, don’t play it. Thief is a great roamer, but they can be out played if you know what you’re up against.

Bleed stacking, kiting (pve more so), looking cool

It’s not bad, just has an acquired taste that some dislike and others triumph with. I’m so-so with it.

dylan.5409:

NinjaEd.3946:

yolo swaggins.2570:

This is not an exploit. Caltrops does not break stealth because it does no damage. Secondly, the insane amount of bleeds and cripple only apply if you stay in the AoE which you can easily dodge out of.

Hope this helps.

It won’t, but maybe it can pay off once the remaining gw2 population are normal people willing to L2P ^^

If its a non issue as you claim why make multiple posts on the subject?
Not just multiple posts, but multiple rude posts.
You’re coming across as pretty defensive for someone discussing a non-issue about a terrible build ……..

because come to prior experience, invalid Q.Q often results in actual nerfs despite hundreds of people stating the opposite and few even going as far as to post guides and videos, sometimes even alternative changes that work for both sides.

So yeah, you should ask for help rather than post non-sense because you dunno what conditions and AoE circles are. In short,stick to pve if you’re this bad in pvp and unwilling to better yourself.

yolo swaggins.2570:

This is not an exploit. Caltrops does not break stealth because it does no damage. Secondly, the insane amount of bleeds and cripple only apply if you stay in the AoE which you can easily dodge out of.

Hope this helps.

It won’t, but maybe it can pay off once the remaining gw2 population are normal people willing to L2P ^^

No reason to change retaliation imo. Multi hit skills often have the benefit of hitting really hard but then you have retaliation to fight back with, it’s fine that way.

I’d only suggest making retaliation shorter but deal a little more damage so it feels more like “retaliation” and not “take this DoT that can only works in numbers or rapid hits”. On thief or necromancer or engineer or even warrior I don’t even feel it except in blobs or pve super retaliation :/

Kaldrys.1978:

Based on my experience with the classes and what they bring to a group:

1. Ele – might, fury, blinds, cc (deep freeze), projectile defense (swirling winds)
2. Engi – might, vuln, stealth, projectile defense
3. Guard – aegis, projectile defense, condi cleanse, stability
4. Ranger – spotter, frost spirit
5. Thief – stealth, blinds, defiance strip, projectile defense
6. Warrior – banners
7. Mesmer – projectile defense, portal, time warp
8. Juvenile Brown Bear – pet revive is op, better tank than cleric guardian, adorable
9. Heal-o-Tron – revives even when full dead, moral support
10. Necro – idk some blinds, condi cleanse I guess

Ha, made me giggle

Although signet of undeath better revival than SnR O.o

dylan.5409:

It is an attack that does damage, so should apply revealed in the same way traps apply revealed to ranger with runes of the trapper. Could be on first bleed tick for example, or if that is too difficult to implement, then just add a small physical damage component to caltrops and apply revealed that way.

It applies a condition, no where do caltrops deal direct damage.

I swear to kitten, first you babies had choking gas nerfed and now you want caltrops? I’d love to see those insane bleed stacks from caltrops, amazing how you would just stand still and receive damage…

Jelzouki.4128:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Great thread. I’d like to know more about why people make the choices they do, and some provided that info. Overall, though, it’s really interesting to read the lists!

It’s not that hard to figure out the meta for dungeon running. I hope you really are just interested in hearing other peoples opinions as opposed to actually not knowing which classes are the best to take. If that’s the case and you don’t know then why bother working on this game if you’re not going to play it enough to know what’s good and what’s bad?

Rather harsh response towards a dev feigning interest :/

Arikyali.5804:

What if venoms are meant for PvE? Condition damage PvE? Certainly no use in dungeons, eh. Maybe solo roaming in open world?

/shrug

They (anet) already believe venoms to be for a condition build. It’s been said by carl in the ready up videos worded along the lines of “now you can buff your party’s condition damage using your own stats”.

evilapprentice.6379:

NinjaEd.3946:

Thief has received numerous miscellaneous changes that have done nothing significant.

Long story short the builds that you may of enjoyed in the past are either unchanged or nerfed or changed for no greater good. Overall same class just a different log-in date.

This is….very inaccurate.

BP’s nerf (standing outside of circles is hard!) made it so that anyone with half a brain can land an entire AA chain or an important skill on you while standing in the circle. That changes BP’s function from a good utility skill to an overpriced entry gate to stealth.

FS->LS’s nerf made it so that your opponents can dodge both your FS and LS with a single evade/immune/blind/etc while also increasing the init cost of FS (the skill you have to land to gain access to the 1init LS). Making evades more spammable is viewed as a “buff” by some, but it wasn’t. S/D already had all the evades it needed, it relied on LS’s damage/boon steal to be threatening – without it, it’s a fairly kittenty set.

Trying to play either of those sets the way you did pre-nerf to would put you at a disadvantage and confuse a player who wasn’t aware of said changes.

Like I said,“Long story short the builds that you may of enjoyed in the past are either unchanged or nerfed or changed for no greater good.”

BPS nerf was not that bad since people could simply sit outside the field and still hit you, and fs-ls nerf although wasn’t necessary imo all it did is make repeated use of this skill less attractive turning s/d into a hit and run rather than a “wana dance?” build. It’s still viable otherwise no one would use it, but it warrants a higher skill level to be as good as it was in the past.

It could be worse… much worse…

Chrispy.5641:

NinjaEd.3946:

Logic =/= fantasy mmorpg.

Good luck spreading the word to the hundreds of mmo’s who use rangers with bows and not rifles.

But…GW2 is not those hundreds of other MMOs.

That is the problem with trying to induce this ridiculous theory that some yahoo pulled in order to get rifles on a class that has been made and remade 100’s of times.

Soon it’s going to be thieves with staves and pistol necro’s because wiki said so O.o

Gaile Gray.6029:

I play a profession that can have ups and downs as far as her power and abilities, but in the end, I make the most of her strengths, try to learn to work around her weaknesses, and just generally have a blast.

Some people like build A, but other people may not like it and can’t adapt or maybe something is wrong with build A that can be adjusted but most of the time it’s flat out nerfed.

It seems like a lot of times its from a large voice that reaches those “1 in a million” dev’s and word reaches down to the rest which ultimately leads to some very questionable changes. Not all are bad, but enough have been made to where it doesn’t feel like the right calls are being made on top of being very slow. I’d love to go back to enjoying this game but it almost seems like most of the dev’s don’t care.

I find it hard to explore a profession’s strengths when half of the traits are pointless and people run cancerous builds that are in need of balance.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

quaniesan.8497:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

oxtred.7658:

Please stop saying necro dps is the lowest, for god’s sake. How can you make a rant post about people not understanding the game and still say necro’s flaws are in its dps is beyond me.

It’s a fact that necro’s dps is the lowest in game. Necros also do not have any unique buffs they can bring to the group. Sadly enough GW2 dungeons can be played in such a way that most dungeon mechanics do not come to play. When stacking together in one tiny spot and burst dps’ing everything is viable, there are going to be classes left out.

I don’t think the devs meant for this to happen when they designed the dungeons, but none wants to spend 2 hours killing trash mobs before reaching a boss.

So yes, sadly enough, in the current “meta” dungeon runs, a necromancer keeps the group behind.

Prove it. Because I think you assuming, without knowing. I have participated in DPS test in the past. Posted videos on the matter. My experience with DPS says other wise.

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

These are the dps rankings after the september ballance update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

I think you are really high with that ranking.

Yes, seems you know better than people who know all classes, hold several world speed records and have done an actual dps test. We are sorry.

I followed that link, it just lead to a fancy opinion. Also it clearly negated group buffs which is funny that they put ranger ahead of warrior. Hell they even put guardian below ranger :/

(In the correct form) IMO, that list looks like a complete shot in the dark.

You also have to factor in risks for such dps builds, where something as simple as a trash mob can down you. Downed player = rank 8 dps, even these “elitists” I watch screw up a lot thinking quicker dps = guaranteed success and I shake my head when they get smacked down in their full ascended non-sense.

At the end of the day, player skill > profession “dps”.

Bold move for making a red thread O.o

I salute you life-long ranger and hope that you can prevent senseless nerfs to a non-existent problem. Honestly if more people or you (anet) directly posted counters to then numerous “op” mechanics to let people know that there is hope if they’re willing to better themselves. Some will get better, few will continue to Q.Q but every bit helps.

Ultimately, the thief community can maybe continue to avoid nerfs too due to forum Q.Q ?

DeceiverX.8361:

While I agree that Dire + Perplex condi is what’s really the culprit behind most condition ridiculousness, P/D having such a low-risk : high-reward kit doesn’t help its case. The only time P/D should die is if it gets outnumbered by multiple targets using CC lock skills through the stunbreaks or manages to get long-ranged immobilize locked while burned with conditions and focused while on cooldowns.

P/d can be “out-ranged” or cc locked or simply be crippled (not the condition) so much to where it cannot hurt someone as quick by missing certain combinations.

P/d does have weaknesses as a kit, it’s the dire set that makes them less relevant when you can tank most of it and just chill in stealth if you get a little scared.

Thief has received numerous miscellaneous changes that have done nothing significant.

Long story short the builds that you may of enjoyed in the past are either unchanged or nerfed or changed for no greater good. Overall same class just a different log-in date.

DeceiverX.8361:

Blech. P/D dire condi is a set that needs to get thrown into the pits of nerfblivion in WvW like PU mesmer.

I bolded the actual problem.

Woaden.9425:

For anyone still trying to use Lyssa in high condi scenarios like WvW, the fact that Basilisk is 40 instead of 45 seconds is kind of annoying.

That isn’t new if you had quick venoms traited.

So many ICD’s though, I feel your pain keeping track of them.

Number changes OP or scary. Either one seems valid at this point given it took 2 months to make changes that would fit on a post-it note.

Welcome to ranger, pick from the few good pets and just ignore the rest!

Seriously, you’re going to find out that some pets rock and others are along the lines of “kitten?”

Some can end up being situational for pve but that’s about it. Take the time to try them all and find which one suits your build or possible build the most.

Logic =/= fantasy mmorpg.

Good luck spreading the word to the hundreds of mmo’s who use rangers with bows and not rifles.

Idk how the typical power necro is ran but for me I use DS for almost 80% of my time and use dagger/dagger with axe/focus (sometimes warhorn) for utility. I also don’t go anywhere near the first 2 trait lines and focus entirely on staying in DS and making sure life blast is buffed up well. Both in groups or in solo it is quite threatening unless against heavy cc or heavy blinds and projectile reflects/blocks since I hit somewhat slow.

Also I would use flesh golem over lich. Not only is lich a big suicide button in most cases, it’s a really long cooldown compared to a (potential) 40 second knockdown which pierces. So many uses for such a skill from combos to stopping a rally, etc.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I used it a bit just in some pve bosses…and wow I can tell a big difference. The hand actually feels threatening now instead of just “ohhhhh, spoooookkkyyyy”. Building up life force with it should be a bit easier. Now if only they’d make dark path as fast or faster…

I actually don’t mind the dark path projectile speed for 1 reason. The delay can often let me combo something as I’m about to teleport or even get me out of a combo if used on a distant target (which I usually target anyways). Thankfully it tracks the target otherwise I would be on the flip side.

Bhawb.7408:

Trahearne has been using Greatsword and overall making us look like a bunch of kittening wimps for a long time.

That’s because Trahernia is our lord and savior and needs to look bamf. Plus he was around during the GS craze where only good skins came out on GS, we still have 3 GS legendaries :/

Pretty sure over the course of 2 years every single profession that doesn’t have access to a GS has asked for it.

Dat cd reduction YES! Now venoms are fixed, forget the trait investment and the overlapping venom functions lets just lower the cd for those condi builds >.>

Wouldn’t even call this a Band-Aid anymore, they need to either solve venoms from all angles or move to something else because it’s just been a big waste atm. They could of lowered the cooldown over a year ago and observed it to make sure nothing became blatantly op but I guess number changes are an obstacle course from hell.