Guild Wars 2

My answer might surprise you but dagger / dagger elementalist is probably something you’d like, because it’s a pure " in the fray of thing brawler ".
It’s also one of the best build to solo queue, because obviously its the best build in the game tight now. But the playstyle is exactly what you want.

shion.2084:

I find Ele’s are definitely a challenge, but with a maurauder engi rifle power (and touch of condi) build, I can do decently in 1v1 with them. Perhaps though my level of play is not high enough to see the ele’s which are played by true pro’s.

If they get the jump on me I’m absolutely toast. I basically need to hit all my dodge rolls, jump shot reposition, Acid bomb leaps etc to take one down, but I do have the power and damage to do it if I land everything well. Like most things for the engi, no errors allowed period.

Some of my most enjoyable battles have been with Eles recently.

I have also decimated quite a number, but that’s likely because its the flavour of the week and lots of new folks flocking to it, and you can clearly tell when that’s what you’ve beaten.

Marauder Engi is very good at beating Ele that aren’t top tier players, that’s for sure. They have high damage and decent condi variation which mean you can hit a very crucial chill grenade and win. Moa is also very good at forcing them into a defensive rotation.

You have to lame out deathshroud. Thief is very capable of killing necros, but given how long it takes and the fact that you don’t help decap/ protect the point while doing it, it’s usually not worth it.

docMed.7692:

Shadowstep.6049:

docMed.7692:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-

Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody

Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..

We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.

This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.

Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.

wat? are we playing same game?

Haha, I think so. War is simply a wait out the stances game, blind spam> dead; ranger is wait out the signet of stone > blind spam > interrupt > dead; Mesmer is the toughest of the three, but shatter Mesmer vs thief at least is more of the balanced match-ups with it maybe being 55/45 depending on who you talk to; but in general when it comes to looking at meta power builds, thieves are arguably #1/2.

I think the current Meta ranger build has a slight advantage against Thief because of how overtuned Taunt is. Rangers can set up some deadly combos with it that you won’t be able to lame out.

The advantage for Thief lies in how powerful the stolen item from rangers is IMO.

Don’t forget that elite spec aren’t supposed ( practice will differ of course ) to be “improved” professions. It’s horizontal progression. So different stolen item should also be horizontal differentiation if they were to exist.

I disagreed with the idea at first because OP is only proposing clearly improved version of the current stolen items.
If it was well balanced, I’m all for it personally. I sadly don’t think Arenanet will take the time to create those. We still don’t even have a revenant steal. :/

I like the current D/P SA meta for thief, I find it rewarding to play. Not every thief feels unhappy about the state of the class.
Especially since Daredevil si looking to bring back a strong S/D build, which is really nice.

The class has issues, but it’s not unplayable, its even really good at what it does, most people just don’t like doing, well, what thief has to do.

I don’t expect a lot of changes, but I’ll be happy to be wrong.

To me, the only things really needed are reducing the Burning stacks on Fire Ring and Cleansing fire to 1 for each, and maybe nerf Prismatic Understatement.
Everything else in the game is fine by me.

The mobility is addicting. Other classes just feel so slow without teleports.
Also, someone already talked about that, but Steal, especially when traited fully, is probably the most rewarding ability to land in this game. It does so many things for you and doesn’t interrupt your flow, it speed it up.

A long time ago, Steal in spvp used to be two possible items per class. And it was way worst than it is currently. ( stealing warriors could give you the riffle that knockback both you and the target for example )

I like the idea of having more stolen stuff existing in the game, but I don’t think it goes well with arenanet design philosophy for elite spec to have this " If I take the elite spec, thief gets a better stolen item from me " feeling.

It would probably be something that shoudl require more than a button press, and would need a longer cast time given the nature of it. And which those restrictions in mind, I think we would get too close to the daredevil elite after further designing.

You could also make it something that doesn’t by pass downed state, but then heartseeker kinda does the whole finish target with low HP already.

1) True, although given the nature of pve content ( large mobs with big hitboxes ) I don’t think we’re the straight up best dps class, but we’re definitely competitive and wanted.

2) In sPvP, shortbow 5, stealth rez ( Mercyful Ambush is currently bugged, gives 20% rez speed isntead of 10 ) and the boon stripping daze steal are mostly what people seek when bringing a thief.
You can also expect a favorable / even 1v1 matchup against power mesmer in addtion to warriors. ( They used to be free food for us, which is why people won’t accept we still win this slightly )
The thing to understand about thief in sPvP, we are VERY efficient damage and CC. A good thief will be able to do something meaningful in a match at all time, and this is very rewarding gameplay in my opinion, even if people are angry at our lack of 1v1 potential.

3) Toker has been really positive about S/D Daredevil being a viable choice against D/P SA. Daredevil is looking pretty good at improving our 1v1 potential if anything. Bound damage and the insane weakness uptime given by the middle adept trait ( forgot the name ) will make it very possible to have the advantage against any other marauder build.

We lose stealth duration on shadow refuge and stealth rezzes but given the addition of multiple very frightening reveal abilities ( scrapper F5, herald facet, dragonhunter trap ) it’s possible shadow refuge might fall out of use anyway.

4) I couldn’t tell you, I play with 50ms usually. But Arenanet has recently begun working on technical additions to the engine helping people like you with higher latency. We can only wait to see if it has a real effect. I can tell you it can be very frustrating to die as a thief because of lag or rubberbanding tho. Missing Steal because of it for example can be gamebreaking.

Lastly, the forums are often a very extreme rendition of what playing feels like. Thief is not bad by any means, it’s currently in a great spot as far as being wanted for most game modes.
The class has some fundamental problems that start to be more obvious with time, and people are worried about the future because of it. Peopel who are angry about it keep on trying to get those issues solved because Thief is just a very fun and unique class, and we all want to keep playing it. It’s an unique freedom of mobility and in&out gameplay that doesn’t really exist on other classes.

Hope you foudn some answers in my ramble. Have a nice day.

I’m not a fan of how Lock On works, but its in a very fair spot in engi trait lines. They need to find another way to get swiftness if they want lock on, and its not always easy.

These days they get by with Elixir B, because HGH and the whole elixir line is pretty insane. But that could change and they would need Speedy kits again.

It’s probably a bug but honestly, Shadow Refuge should probably be the one stealth skill that is immune to the reveal effects anyway.

Stealth is not a boon, its an effect like superspeed, so facet of nature doesn’t affect it.

A lot of what’s discussed here is very silly, but I agree with the general sentiment that the new stealth reveal skills are too much.

Stealth IS a Thief profession mechanic in the sense that without our powerful stealth attack we’re at a natural disadvantage. It also invalidate Shadow Art which is for the current build the only way of getting decent condition cleanse.
It’s also core to any dagger build to be able to enter stealth often with how Backstab damage has been adjusted over the years. ( crit for 5 / 6k in pvp these days which is reasonable )

Those reveal skills need to have telegraph with a cast time if they stay non targeted. Or WAY longer cooldown.
20sec with a chance to have it free from kinetic Battery, for an instant cast 900 range 6sec reveal is bonkers.

Auesis.7301:

It ain’t competing with Elixir X or Supply Crate.

It’ll be a nice way to break GvG stealth openers, I guess.

It is competing. The stealth / reveal drone is their elite.
I’m not sure they’re gonna run this, especially since Elixir X is just so good these days.
AoE Moa > Aoe reveal

Sifu.9745:

Hmm, engineer hard? One of the easiest profession in the game, if you don’t equip more than one kit. Go with double pistol and elixirs + elixir gun: it can’t be easier. Try Rifle + bombs and gadgets: simple again.
If you want to complicate things, sure, you can try with Rifle + grenades + turrets lol.

A LOT of pvp build run atleast two kits, since tools kits provide amazing utility and you usually run another kit for your damage.
Recently the most common build started running only one kit but that’s for a whole bunch of reasons. ( HGH being strong for the Moa elite utility, making you want to run more elixirs, which allow you to not have to take speedy kits for mobility, so you can take Lock On which is amazing. )

The most annoying thing about this if that if you use a teleport skill to move out of the ring of fire ( which should be a good play ), instead of avoiding taking burning stacks, you take a whole bunch like if you stepped in and out multiple time.

Engi is probably a good idea, its complex and rewarding.
Ele is fun and has a lot of buttons to press, does a lot of different thing, its a bit less complex than engi because it follows established rotations most of the time, but its a lot of fun.
Necro is a bit simpler than both, the meta build is based around managing conditions and boons, sending them, corrupting them, but in the end its more controlish and kill stuff with powerful auto attack in shroud.

DaShi.1368:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem isn’t the sustain in and of itself. The problem is that they do great damage in addition to the sustain. Before the condition patch I could easily fight a d/d ele to a stalemate because while I couldn’t kill them, they couldn’t kill me either, which is fine balance wise.

Now they do 1000000000000k burning dps on top of being unkillable. Which is just stupid right now.

Actually, because of the way ele’s burn, you do 1000000000k burning dps to yourself. Ele burning is the easiest to avoid. Doesn’t even require dodging.

Would be great in theory if teleporting out of a fire ring wasn’t bugged and gave you like 11 stacks of burning instantly.

Its not hard, just reduce Fire Ring to 1 or 2 stacks or burning instead of 3, and reduce the scaling / number of burn applied by Drake’s breath.
Put the damage taken from Fire 2 into Fire 5 to compensate maybe, because that one is actually hard to land.

You also could reduce the base duration of fire ring so they cannot maintain a full might stacking rotation while taking Blinding ashes, forcing them into the other Grandmaster extending fire field duration.

Tried to make something that isn’t Cultural armor look cool on a sylvari. :)

Helm – Rascal
Shoulder – Scarf
Chest – Carapace
Gloves – Flame Legion
Pants – Commando
Boots – Viper

Guardians and most Engi are pretty much a no no to fight in 1v1 and you even have to be careful in 2v1 against them. Let your team mate get them low enough so that your steal open leave them near dead.

Necros are a lot harder if you have to engage them in a Mark trapped spot, otherwise its doable. Double fear against them is usually really good. You have to be careful about spectral armor because giving them too much lifeforce will make them survive just long enough to fight back when you don’t have much left.

Mesmers.. ugh, sometimes I feel like I finally get how to win this consistently, and then you make a single mistake and you get shattered for all your life. Or sometimes you don’t even make a mistake and they just get lucky with it. I feel like with every mesmers running PU, trying to 1v1 them is a pure waste of our time.

Sunflowers.1729:

Nocta.5274:

Outside of unfair situations, Thieves have a very hard time winning 1v1 against any classes beside themselves, so keep that in mind. They have to play dirty to be worth something.

Not true in the slightest. I have a very easy time killing Rangers, Mesmers in general, as well as all glass builds. Other tankier builds like D/D ele or Guardian it is true that you have a hard time winning since they can regenerate continuously but they aren’t going to be killing you either.

Also I might add that they are traiting to be tanky and hold a point and it’s hard for many people – not only Thieves – to kill them 1v1.

Edit: How to fight D/D eles is you chill them after they switch to water attunement, interrupt Drake’s Breath if they try to hit you with it, steal to them at the moment they cast burning speed (you swap positions, so it doesn’t hit you), and don’t run through the ring of fire. And don’t hit them when they have shocking aura up, obviously.

Edit2: Or just don’t fight them. I mean, why would you waste time doing that when you can just go to another point and claim it/+1 a point for an easy win instead.

Rangers are doable I agree, but its not like easy or anything. Mesmers I dunno, since the patch, I don’t see how a Mesmer lose to a Thief on equal skill.

Also, good advices on fighting D/D Ele, but even if you stick the chill after they switch to water, they can just use water 5, or dodge roll, or use any cantrips, and its gone anyway.

I still think as far as advices go, Thieves should not seek 1v1, even the one they can win. Sniping a glass canon in the ennemy team during big teamfight is not the same as a 1v1.

Managing blinds is definitely the best way to win duels and help in team fights these days.
Putting a Shortbow 3 over a teamfight for the pulsing weakness is also very powerful, never forget to use that.

Being good at Thief in conquest mode right now is gonna feel weird because its unlike any other classes. You’re not supposed to fight with any honor. Be dirty, be unfair.

Don’t try to be a hero and 1v1 that D/D Ele defending Far or the guy that stay in the fight middle a bit too long and die in it.
Having good map awareness, knowing the Shortbow 5 shortcuts, being where you need to be to unbalance the odds is what you’re good at.

Engineers also have Lock On, master trait in Tools, which cause any player hit to be under the effect of Analyze, which reveal them.

Outside of unfair situations, Thieves have a very hard time winning 1v1 against any classes beside themselves, so keep that in mind. They have to play dirty to be worth something.

Probably because you’re using Mug in Deadly Arts.
The order those things go, you get the stealth from Hidden Thief before Mug does damage, so it reveals you before you can backstab.

Briix.6872:

Nocta.5274:

Briix.6872:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Nocta.5274:

When Shortbow had 1200 range ?

I would sure like to get that one back, particularly SB5.

That jump just feels so short.

If I’m not mistaken, the only thing on Shortbow that has ever had 1200 range was Cluster Bomb. IA would be way too strong if it had 1200 range.

Nah, everyting on the SB was 1200 range. I’m sure of it, I was there when they nerfed it

Can’t tell if you’re trolling or not, but Cluster Bomb was the only thing that was ever 1200 range.

kitten , you’re actually right. I checked some old stuff and Cluster Bomb was the only 1200 range skill.
Weird, I for sure remember a time where Infiltrator arrow range was nerfed somehow.

Briix.6872:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Nocta.5274:

When Shortbow had 1200 range ?

I would sure like to get that one back, particularly SB5.

That jump just feels so short.

If I’m not mistaken, the only thing on Shortbow that has ever had 1200 range was Cluster Bomb. IA would be way too strong if it had 1200 range.

Nah, everyting on the SB was 1200 range. I’m sure of it, I was there when they nerfed it

When Sword 2 return was instant and stunbreaker ?
When Sword dagger 3 removed 2 boons each times ?
When Shortbow had 1200 range ?

Lots happened.

That thing was already nerfed a long time ago, it used to be a full evade, and now it’s only a projectile reflector, which is really easy to interrupt.
I have no idea how you could think that thing is problematic.

It was way better when Shortbow still had 1200 range.

I think we will probably get a new weapon that is already in the game( Riffle for Thief wink wink ) before they add any totally new type of weapon.

Shockwave.1230:

Form.8741:

…Except that infiltrators return is basically worthless now for real fights.

It’s just no as good as it was. You have to anticipate it’s use and watch for tells.

That’s a bit of an understatement.
I used to play when Infiltrator return was instant AND stun breaker
Add to this S/D 3 being 1 boon steal only, and S/D feel nerfed to oblivion for people coming back right now.

Tetsuyja.7805:

Nocta.5274:

Went all out skimpy for this one, but heh, why not.
It works well with the “bimbo blonde but I’m still gonna steal all your stuff” look.

hey! looks great. what color do you use for your shoulders/gloves? gold and abyss?

It’s Midnight Fire for the black, and lemonade for the gold.
Because I’m poor.

Went all out skimpy for this one, but heh, why not.
It works well with the “bimbo blonde but I’m still gonna steal all your stuff” look.