Doesn’t matter what it’s called, it’s gone. Good riddance too.
Also “Res-Rushing” was coined about 10-15 years ago in other MMOs like EQ, UO, WoW, etc.
Because if the said dungeons takes over 25 minutes for these best players in the world, that dungeon is not accessible for casual players at all.
Casual players might be very skillful and knows what they are doing. But they have limit play time everyday. Some only have 2 hours a day. When the dungeon takes over 25 minutes, on top of time need for finding a group, dungeons becomes too time consuming for these casual players. They will be limited by time, not skills.
Sounds like you want a dungeon finder. If you are having trouble finding a group, go to www.gw2lfg.com. I agree there should be an in-game tool, since not everyone uses that web site. However, by now many veterans to PUGs do, so I don’t find this reason that valid.
As it is right now, Arah dungeon path 4 is impossible for any casual player that only have 2 hours a day to play. This path 4 takes over 4 hours for a lot of players. Some spent 12 hours in this dungeon and still failed it. It isn’t fair to have contents totally inaccessible for these casual players just because they got real life stuff to deal with.
I did Path 4 in two pugs last week, and the run took under an hour. We one-shot Simin in one run, and two-shot her in another.
But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.
If you haven’t even done the path, I don’t know why you’re saying it’s impossible. It isn’t.
I love how elitist always attack others instead of the issue at hand.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitist
Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hypocrite
I thought you might want to brush up on your English a little.
Also…
CHIPS.6018When did I say a level 15 should be able to do a level 80 dungeon? Where did I say that? Queue me on it if you see it. :P
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All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?
You paid for access to the game; nothing else. If you logged on, and only attained level 15, should you expect to be able to do Arah Explorable Mode? I mean, you paid for the game, right?! Why are they keeping this content from us!
It’s the same thing.
This kind of attitude of entitlement is really hilarious to me.
You’re really comparing GW1 to GW2 CHIPS?
Domain of Anguish dungeon runs took average pugs 2 hours to complete. Only the very best and highly coordinated speedrunners did it in under 25 minutes. You also needed a full set of consumables to make sure you didn’t wipe.
Also, if you wiped in Domain of Anguish, the entire instance reset. You had to start it over from the beginning. But this wasn’t even unique to DoA. Every single dungeon, every single mission in the whole world, until Heart of the North, followed this same rule: If you wiped, that was it.
And you’re complaining about not being able to res-zerg, and an Arah run that takes under an hour?
GW1 had a different type of skill. It’s also find this really amusing: Your double-standard, with regards to how you to expect any sort of respect for how well you say you played that game, when you don’t show the same sentiment who play GW2 better than you do.
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Are you trying to claim that Lupi in Arah cannot one hit kill non-tank players? If so, there aren’t much left to discuss.
He doesn’t. You either gave him a stack of the grub buff, or you weren’t topped off. Lupicus only two shots at most.
You’re just wrong. Feel free to run Arah with me and you’ll see.
Lupine Blast can also be deadzoned, where it doesn’t do any damage to you at all. This a boss which has been soloed, by some people in under 8 minutes.
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There shouldn’t be a role so to speak.
There are definitely roles in this game. The reason a group can go poorly is because they don’t understand what roles are to begin with.
- Support: Coming to the aid of your team. Every Profession is capable of Support. (Revival, for instance is Support)
- Control: Preventing a creature from harming your team. The simple act of having aggro, taking a hit, Dodging, or kiting is Control.
- Damage: This should be self-explanatory, but maximizing Damage is more involved than you think.
You can specialize your build into doing one of these better than others, or fill a void in your group. If you’re a Warrior, for instance, you can provide 8 indefinite Vulnerability from using Axe/Mace alone. (Which is comparable to Greatsword) If your group needs more Support, maybe the Guardian can slot shouts (“Hold the Line!”, “Stand Your Ground!”) so they can bring more Regeneration, Stability or Protection to the party. If you’re trying to keep the creatures from getting out of control, maybe the Thief will spam Black Powder until things stabilize.
Many players feel that we bring so much Control (Dodging) and Support (Reviving) without being specialized into anything, that we can afford to maximize Damage as much as possible for most of the dungeons. And they’re right.
Bosses have a billion billion hp and one hit kill non-tank characters.
One-hit bosses? Which ones actually do that? The only bosses I know that legitimately one-shot people are in Fractals Level 40-50+.
Bosses don’t have “billions” of health. I doubt anything in this game has close to a million at the moment. I’ve seen Champions die in under 15 seconds with the right group composition. (And Time Warp) Many people are not specced optimally for damage. Maybe you have a Magic Find Leech in your group. Look inwardly before blaming the encounters.
Ok so against something like this people should LTP? Get better?
ONE mistake by ONE of you PUG members, when you are trying to kill that billion billion hp boss, will lead to party wipe. And once you wipe, that billion billion hp boss will be fully healed.
If someone is Downed, come to their aid.
And just because someone is defeated, you have options. You can revive them, quite easily mind you, using an Ash Legion Spy Kit to revive them and the boss won’t even attack you; or you can reset the boss, running away, and then trying again. You don’t have to wipe. And you didn’t have to let him get defeated to begin with.
Prove to me how PUG is not totally 110% dead after this update.
Prove it? Ok.
www.gw2lfg.com
I see plenty of groups there. In fact, I can get a group for almost every single Explorable Dungeon in the game, within minutes. Contrary to all the doom and gloom everyone is posting on the forums, it isn’t the Apocalypse in these groups either. Whenever we are in the dungeon, we ask if anyone is new; if someone is, I’ll briefly explain what’s going on to these new people. There are very rarely any problems, and if they are it’s a minor inconvenience.
So for me to succeed, I better look for a elite guild and force them to play with me, even when they are busy doing something else. Or start adding my own circle of elitist friends.
Just because you are having issues, it is not a universal issues. Those that had trouble before are adapting, and I am actually seeing a noticeable improvement in the PUGs now, with players being more attentive to rescuing their downed teammates.
The dungeon developers spent a lot of time designing the boss encounters and events in these dungeons. I think it’s rather insulting you aren’t willing to pay attention to what the creatures do, and you’d rather just die, run back, and continue to die to the boss without knowing why you were defeated to begin with.
I think it’s very weird that players are not even saying what profession they are, because there are many people who would give useful advice and tips if you simply asked for that, instead of complaining that you don’t like the change. There’s always something new to learn for everyone.
The best way to build your team is to bring only as much Support or Control as is necessary for your group to survive. After that, bring as much damage as possible. Many people new to dungeons use Toughess and Vitality heavy gear at first, and then switch to Berserker’s once they are more comfortable with the encounters. The damage difference between using Berserker’s and not using it is very noticeable.
The Damage role is not as simple as just hitting your damage buttons. It also involves maximizing Fury and Might uptime, with 25 stacks of Vulnerability on creatures.
Everyone mentions Warriors, Guardians and Mesmers as strong PvE Professions but I find that Engineers are hugely underrated. One Engineer can bring 20 stacks of Vulnerability by themselves!
I’ve seen some pugs suggest that they try to “kite” the mobs and kill the assassins. I don’t see the advantage in this at all, since the most reliable way to get someone up from being downed is through Rallying off of a mob death. If you’re always AoEing, and prioritizing assassins, no one will be defeated and you’ll always protect Magg.
How are you dying in these dungeons in the first place? Most people have no trouble with them.
Prove it.
www.gw2lfg.com
If you were right, there would be no groups. I see plenty. Maybe it’s all a conspiracy though.
If I wanted free legendaries I would go back to WOW (which I left precisely because of the freebie legendaries being thrown about) …. I am not, and nor are the many OTHER posters who are upset at the cavalier changes by a company who promises one thing and has changed it, asking for free legendaries, … but we DO have the right to the CONTENT that we have paid for.
No, you don’t. You paid for access to the game. Nothing else.
Look at it this way: If I bought the game, but then stayed at level 2, am I allowed to complain about not being able to do Citadel of Flame? Why won’t anyone invite me? This is unfair! I paid for the game!
You are essentially saying the same thing. You paid for the game, but what you have access to is entirely up to you. It doesn’t entitle you to high ranking in sPvP, it doesn’t entitle you to being able to lead an army around in WvW, and it doesn’t entitle you to res-rushing your way to victory dungeons. You can earn all of these things if you put the effort into them; or none at all. The choice is up to you.
….. EXACTLY the horrible sort of disgusting sickening elitism we do not want rearing its ugly vile head …
No offense, but why do you put so much energy into nonconstructive posts like these instead of actually seeking or giving advice for dungeons? Some players are doing fine, and some aren’t. The difference is just in the willingness to learn. Res-Rushing was not going to stay, and it’s definitely not coming back. Please tell me a single MMO where you can still res-zerg encounters? It made GW2 feel unpolished and crude.
Furthermore, just because you paid for the game this does not entitle you to everything. It’s like saying, “Why can’t I have my Legendary for free right now? I paid for the game!” or, “Why am I waiting in queue for WvW? I paid for the game!” You are saying the same thing about dungeons.
You paid for access to the MMO; nothing else. What you do with your access is entirely on you.
You don’t need heavies for Alpha. You just need to be close to him. Alpha doesn’t have any actual melee swings, and all of his damage is avoidable. It’s just easier when you’re in melee range.
It’s in the patch notes.
First, a healing class role, that when well played would prevent the death of players in the first place. Second, a moderately cool-downed revival spell to bring eliminated players back into the fight. With these 2 in place, res rushing has NO place in the MMO. Without healing or resurrection spells, Waypoint Revival appears to me as the most natural way play the game.
Do you know why Downed stated exists to begin with? Because there are no healers, as you pointed out. That’s why we get a second chance. Everyone can heal themselves and you have the ability to immune damage very frequently through Dodging. You can also save your teammates, repeatedly, through reviving them.
If worst comes to the worst, just Ash Legion Spykit and revive the Defeated player.
Tips:
- Spreading out all over the place is generally not a good idea. If you do get downed far away from your team, they can’t come to your aid right away. (This is a really bad thing to do on Subject Alpha)
- A downed player can still receive boons like Protection an Aegis.
- Generally speaking, if you see more than one person get Downed, that’s when you should use a skill to revive allies if you have any. (Although most aren’t that useful) The Warrior elite banner is probably the best one, since it’s ranged and revives multiple players.
“Tricks”:
- Ash Legion Spy Kit is your best friend forever.
I can live with that, but I need some assistance, a link a good video?
http://www.youtube.com/user/strife025/videos?view=0
I don’t know what profession you are, but this guy has some pretty helpful videos and builds. I think he plays a Mesmer, Warrior and Guardian.
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The issue is with those dungeons that for the big majority were extremely difficult even with decent skill and good gear, e.g. CoE, Arah.
Giganticus Lupicus (and Subject Alpha to an extent) have been solo some players and duo’ed by many. These fights are not “extremely difficult” for groups, although they might require a little bit of effort to learn what they actually do.
Lupicus only has one or two moves you need to learn to look out for. For instance, he crosses his arms right before he does his large AoE. Most PUGs just wait for the red circles and then complain that they had no time to react and that it was unfair. (Even though he has a unique animation that had almost 2 seconds of wind-up)
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Res-rushing did exist in World of Warcraft early on. When you died, you “released” and you were thrown outside the instance, sometimes 2-5 minutes away as a ghost. You had to return to the instance portal to resurrect, and you zoned in at the very beginning. Out-of-combat resurrection was also common in instances.
After a few months, the designers did away with all of these cheesy strategies by putting the entire zone into combat when you engaged a boss (to prevent “OOC ressing”) and also prevented a dead player from zoning in while an encounter was in progress. Res-rushing was also quelled on outdoor encounters, because of unique mechanics developed for those bosses. For instance, some bosses put a debuff on you if you died. If you re-engaged the boss with this debuff, you would instantly die.
Here’s a guide for Subject Alpha. He solos him too.
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For those criticizing the exploiting of Jade Maw, I’d like to point out that the Agony damage is quite literally impossible to live through, and I sincerely doubt it was done accidentally this way. You can’t blame people for trying to find a way around it.
Here’s some perspective. These are damage values before Agony Resistance:
Level 10: 12% health a tick.
Level 20: 24% health a tick.
Level 30: 48% health a tick.
Level 40: 72% health a tick.
Level 50: 1172% health a tick.
It could have continued to scale up and the players progressing through Fractals would have though, “Oh well. I guess we need more gear. It doesn’t exist yet, but one day it will!” It would have been something to work towards and look forward to. However, the damage jumps up to a brick wall to halt progression completely.
Unless the amulets grant somewhere in the range of 430 Agony Resistance, you aren’t going to live through the level 50 Jade Maw’s Agony.
Right now, the Agony is being re-applied if you are revived after being defeated, a simple and elegant fix to all of the exploits going on to bypass it. If you cannot live through Agony once, you will never live through it ever.
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I don’t know everyone is so resistant to change. When I first started playing GW2, I thought the dungeons were incredibly tough. As I learned more and more about the game though, I began to adjust my build and learn how to avoid damage.
I find the dungeons very boring right now, especially when a team coordinates their group builds around one another.
Res-rushing was incredibly bad for the game’s longevity. Some pug groups I joined completely neglected making any attempt to revive their allies, or they themselves paid little heed to the encounter mechanics because this safety net was always there to catch them. Rushing over to save someone meant nothing because it was almost impossible to fail an encounter since you could zerg it to death.
I am very thankful for this change, because the defeated state has meaning now. It’s up to you to avoid it as much as possible. Now when I group, I encourage pugs to pay attention to their allies’ well being more if I see they are slacking, and there is noticeable improvement in reaction time towards reviving your helpless comrade.
The only “mistake” ArenaNet made was to not remove res-rushing sooner, since people are so accustomed to it. I’m sure they were limited by time and resources, however.
One problem I’d say is that in this game we can’t easily share our builds. In GW1, you could ping your build and everyone could easily assess what the group had and what was needed. In this game, it takes more effort.
Huh? Not sure what you are talking about. There are no LFG tools. So you get a guild grp, which is not always possible, or you have a pug. Getting a pug for some of the dungeons can take a long time or be impossible depending on what dungeon you are looking to do. After you get 5 people in a pug, you actually want players to have to question each other and perform some type of gear check interrogatory? Are you kidding?
I’m not kidding. I play a Guardian, and whenever I do Arah I usually play as support, because it’s easier on everyone that way. When I pug it, I inform the group this and that it would be preferable if everyone else was Damage since I could more than fulfill the Support role.
It isn’t an interrogation. Why would you want to be in a group with 3 people playing Support? The run would be unbearably slow. It’s in everyone’s best interest to tell each other their builds, even if it as briefly as, “I’m Damage.” or “I’m Support.” or “I’m Damage and Control.”
The problem is that you mistake “efficiency” for “elitism.”
As for a LFG tool, I go to www.gw2lfg.com and I post, “LFM, need Damage!” if that’s all we need.
Explorable Modes were originally intended for organized groups. It isn’t that much work to check how much support your group is bringing; you just have to ask.
You can still live through the Agony at level 40. Level 40 Agony is 72% health every second, before Agony Resist. With 30 AR, it reduces the damage to 36% hp/second, which you can survive with enough healing.
Level 50 is impossible because it is 1172% a second.
The laser actually does damage to your corpse, so it keeps the group in combat. This happens with some of the lasers, but not all of them as far as I know.
If you are suffering from this bug, log off and rejoin the instance. You will be dead, but at least you can use the Waypoint again.
Just do what I do: Start the instance first. If they kick you, the instance dies. The time invested in doing Story Mode is worth it.
All you need to succeed in dungeons is bring only as much support as is necessary, then max out your damage.
This is the same thing as the “Guardians are OP in Fractals, ohmagerd” argument.
These easy dungeons are a “best case scenario” for Warriors in these builds. The problem is the dungeon encounters, not the Warrior profession. You need more threatening mechanics that put pressure on them, and things to force them to have more diverse builds.
The most efficient way to play as a team has always been is to bring only as much Support as you need, (the bare minimum) and then bring as much damage as possible.
And to be quite honest, I prefer the “Zerk Warrior Elitism” attitude over the Magic Find Leech.
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I want to clear something up here, we do not auto-ban people without investigating the account first. Our CS staff reviews reports that come in and if they find questionable activity, they take whatever action they deem appropriate.
Questionable activity can actually be as simple as a guild mate sending 30 gold to another in a loan.
There have been more and more reports of people with high playtime being banned in WvW for “botting.” If there is no automated system in play, then many mistakes are being made repeatedly. It is just a coincidence that these bans are correlating with the rise in guilds being aware of this activity and using the report feature?
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So why the [heck] wall is so much better than our smoke screen? Why?
Smoke Screen does more than block projectiles. It also provides a Smoke Field. The reason it’s shorter is because you can give people AoE Stealth using a combo blast finisher, which is actually very strong in some circumstances.
Wall of Reflection is only a Light Field, which is not as powerful or useful by comparison.
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Shield of the Avenger: I’d say Shield of the Avenger is probably too good. When you get the Spirit Weapon Mastery (20% recharge reduction) plus Improved Spirit Weapon Duration (+50%) Major Traits, your projectile blocking uptime is very high. I also find it very strange how the shield’s passive effect is so strong, and its active effect is useless, and never used.
Remember Before Fractals?: Prior to Fractals of the Mist, Guardians were not as popular with groups. Groups all wanted higher damage dealers. It isn’t a coincidence that with the introduction of this new dungeons that Guardians suddenly became “good.”
PvE Diversity: Here are some things which you do not see much or at all in PvE, which would encourage more build diversity. These aren’t crazy ideas either, just abilities creatures lack:
- Deadly Conditions: Most conditions are rather trivial in PvE. I can’t even think of the last time I actually needed to slot this specifically.
- Boon Removal: As I said before, Boons are never removed. There should be more strategy involved with Boons other than applying them on cooldown.
- Interrupting: Interrupting is not very important in this game. The whole concept of “Unshakable” really bothers me too. It should be based on time, not the number of CC applied to it, so it doesn’t punish groups with less interrupts.
The real issue is that encounter design is too one dimensional. You were correct in explaining that In Fractals of the Mist, you have too much emphasis on projectile-based damage. You missed the mark when you blamed it solely on the Guardian.
Boons Are Awesome: Legendary and Champion creatures actually reduce the duration of Conditions. This inherently makes Boons much more useful, which are integral to the Guardian profession. I’ve never seen a Null Field, Corrupt Boon, or any type of Boon removal in any PvE of significance. Nothing in PvE actually does anything to stop Boons.
Too Many Projectiles: Like you said, projectiles are very common in Fractals. My answer to this is: Stop making so many projectile-based encounters! Mesmers actually match the Guardian in their ability to stop projectiles, but Mesmers themselves as a profession are not strong in PvE with their Support or Damage. This makes them much less attractive for groups by comparison.
Bottom Line?: When you put a Guardian in an environment that it is ideal for, of course the Profession is going to shine. There are other environments where you see this happening for other Professions. For instance, Warriors are very popular for every non-Fractal dungeon because their damage is very high and they are a very durable Profession. Four warrior / one Mesmer (for Time Warp) speed-clear groups for Citadel of Flame are very common these days.
My point is that there are ways to make other Professions feel important, and it starts with more diversity in encounter design.
I’m not too familiar with Ranger abilities to comment on it extensively, but “Protect Me” only lasts 6 seconds, and the Agony is 9 seconds. I assume the pet would die from the redirected damage and the ability would end prematurely? I don’t know.
It’s a pretty moot point though since anyone that has a Ranger at Jade Maw at that level is just going to use “Search and Rescue” and win regardless!
The Jade Maw’s Agony goes through all immunity. (Mist Form, Endure Pain, etc.) You can’t block or or dodge it either. (The application or subsequent ticks)
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4919/gw223.jpg
Mesmer see, Mesmer do
What does this picture prove? Anyone can avoid agony by staying back there, but I’d like to see the mesmer jump to the platform and still not get hit with it…
They just don’t fully understand how the Agony works on that map. The Jade Maw’s Agony doesn’t just fire once. The moment you cross over into range of it (mid-air, jumping down from that rock), Agony will be applied to you, even if it’s well after your party has been hit. Someone has to be able to live through the Agony to revive the players in your group who died to it.
Pets don’t get hit by the Jade Maw’s Agony; neither does the ghost from Revive Orbs. That’s why those work.
As long as you don’t use them to make thousands of gold within days, I think you guys are fine.
Jade Maw’s agony hits for over 1,172%/second at and past 50; it ticks 9 times too. To put it in perspective, it hit for 72%/second at 40-49. You need to abuse Revive Orbs, or Search and Rescue, or some other exploit to get your party back up. You need (about) 450+ Agony Resistance to “legitimately” survive it.
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I really don’t see why someone who is actually Level 4 would bother doing Level 30. It’s much more difficult, and they only get Level 4 rewards for their effort.
The change lets that Level 4 group with someone who is Level 3, 5, and 6 and everyone progresses if they succeed.
Spamming your CC abilities to clear defiant is not skillful or interesting gameplay. It would fell better if Defiant was a duration instead of stacks.
Just play a Thief. If they haven’t nerfed their damage now, they never will.
Same thing happened to me tonight. I have a ticket open with all the information required but I’m not hopeful for a quick response.
The dungeons of GW2 will feel really odd at first. Your experience with “spamming boulders in Ascalonian Catacombs” is pretty common for newcomers, but no other dungeon is this cheesy.
GW2 dungeons are basically about controlling chaos. As a five player party (at 80) you will have a large arsenal of abilities are your disposal to tackle even the most ridiculous odds. The harder the content is, the more you will begin to recognizes the three roles of GW2 better: Damage, Support, Control. While every character is capable of the three, a more difficult dungeon (Fractals 30+/40+) will require the players dedicating themselves into builds that compliment their party members, with a more balanced setup.
Map: Fractals: Volcano
Issue The “Teleporting Grawl” bug occurs during the first boss encounter of this Fractal (The Champion Grawl Shaman). The captive on the far right (facing the Champion) can be pushed into the lava by a Veteran Grawl that teleports to it.
It might be related to being staggerd into the wall, or being crowd controlled in general.
The Dredge Powersuit is actually a well designed boss in terms of GW2 bosses. Here are some tips that might help:
- The person tipping the lava bucket should try to not attack. As long as you aren’t on the boss’ aggro table, he won’t ever target you. You also move quicker while out of combat.
- Make sure someone has a short cooldown Immobilize for the boss when it is in position. It helps a lot.
- Kiting in a circle works better than back and forth. You never have to run through him.
- Everyone should pretend as if the boss is aggro’ed on to them. This makes positioning him much easier.
- To stop the heal, the easiest way is to use Fear. Necromancers have the easiest (only?) access to this.
- When dealing with his Agony attack, every profession should be able to completely avoid it reliably. The way it works is that the boss sends out three pulses of damage, each that can apply Agony. You can tell when it’s coming because it gains Stability right as it’s being cast. The ability is on a 45s cooldown.
Try to find the right abilities that can deal with it. Guardians can use Shield of Wrath, Warrior can use Shield Stance, Engineers use Tool Kit: Gear Shield, Thieves can use Signet of Agility to give themselves four dodges in a row, Elementalists can cycle between Mist Form and Arcane Shield. I’m not sure about Rangers, Necromancers, and Mesmers.
Necromancers can fear the heal he does to interrupt it, since it isn’t affected by Righteous Indignation. While you don’t produce the biggest numbers, you prevent what undoes everyone else’s damage.