Guild Wars 2

dreztina.4820:

Brando.1374:

yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.

Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.

Dreztina,

Perhaps you have not been following the necro forums but pretty much all of the known necromancers are against dhuumfire. The necromancer community has lobbied heavily to remove dhuumire from our options. We asked the devs for more survivability (actually escapability) against focus damage/CC. Instead, they gave us dhuumfire, we literally said, “What the hell?”

Nobody was asking for more damage. Nobody.

A good portion of the necro community frowns upon the signet of spite/dhuumfire meta.

Diamond skin is poor game design. Giving necros more condition damage when they didn’t need it was poor game design. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

The Game Slayer.7632:

lol no one is complaining about it now. It’s been over 3 weeks, like I said. People found counters, and no one uses the trait because of how weak it is. Its almost too easy to counter.

You guys made such a big deal about this weeks ago. And I love getting to say ‘i told you so.’

Dude. It’s bad game design. Just like perplexity runes and just like using venom-sharing to stack immobilize. You know, the thing you are getting flamed for right now in the thief forum for correctly pointing it out as something that is broken.

Interestingly enough, their counter-argument to your complaint is the same as your counter-argument to the diamond skin complaint. Perhaps it is time for some introspection?

Joe.4178:

Cares Less.9631:

Nice video Joe, you definitely entertain with each one.

Thanks man you don’t know how much the feedback means to me. You’d be surprise by the how much negative feedback I get vs positive for each of my vids. :\

Far more upvotes than downvotes on your Youtube videos. :P

Gorefiend.9675:

If by comparable you mean similar, then wouldn’t that be true for any size fight?

By comparable, I mean similar skill levels, gear, and builds where they don’t hard counter each other. I think in 5v5 or below, clutch play/counterplay will often determine the winner but RNG can always be a factor, of course.

Azgarn.2145:

Oozo.7856:

I wasn’t insulting them. :P

Just saying people wouldn’t identify the tag with a solo or duo roamer. Nothing wrong with running in a group like [AF] as long as you are trying to find similar groups or PUG zergs twice your size.

I know you weren’t but I’ve been around and talked to enough roamers/small group players that I know what most of them think about midsize to large groups. And I did say “most”, not all.

Well, honestly, a ‘bad’ player can kind of hide in those kind of numbers in this game. But, there are plenty of very good players who run in those numbers as well. They are the ones who typically also duel or roam solo or small group, though.

It’s just an entirely different game. You don’t need to learn a lot of play/counterplay when running in groups larger than ten and some of that stuff can only be learned via practice.

Also, there is a ton of RNG that comes into play when 10+ hits 10+ due to the AoE code. One side can get lucky and have the AoE damage more spread out over their numbers while one side can get unlucky and have a few guys get hit by all of the AoE.

The AoE code in this game is totally broken when you get into fights much larger than than 5v5. Given two teams of comparable skill, gear, and builds you just as might as roll some d20 dice to determine the victor.

I play both guardian and necromancer. I can take more straight up focus damage on my necro but my guardian has more survivability due to in-combat mobility via sword 2, JI, and MI.

Azgarn.2145:

Oozo.7856:

Azgarn.2145:

Oozo.7856:

Not many people from BSty even post on the forums, so don’t direct your ire towards them. :P

They have also had quite a few people come back to the game who have been gone for months just this last week, so they are going to be running heavier for now and don’t know who people are and probably don’t care.

Being gone from the game for a while or not knowing who people are shouldn’t affect your nature or behavior. And yeah I was wrong, it was you Oozo that came to the forums a few weeks ago iirc. It’s just disappointing that a group of skilled players lack class and respect that could really make them stand out.

I wasn’t in your screenshots because I logged off early due to frustration for not finding any decent fights. Trust me, 5v2s aren’t the types of fights they are looking for and maybe they were taking their frustrations out on you, I don’t know. I wasn’t there.

Are you running with an [AF] tag now? That is definitely not a small number roaming guild. :P

When we aren’t raiding, I roam. Always have been a roamer at heart, but it’s also fun to be part of a skilled group that can fight on reset night and take down those pesky zergs. Can’t know how good you really are until you’ve mastered everything. AF is a great guild and they have taught me a lot that I didn’t know. Things that will help me as a roamer as well. And I say this from one roamer to another, it takes a lot more control and skill to be part of a guild like AF than you probably think. I felt like a newborn calf the first few nights with them.

I wasn’t insulting them. :P

Just saying people wouldn’t identify the tag with a solo or duo roamer. Nothing wrong with running in a group like [AF] as long as you are trying to find similar groups or PUG zergs twice your size.

Azgarn.2145:

Oozo.7856:

Not many people from BSty even post on the forums, so don’t direct your ire towards them. :P

They have also had quite a few people come back to the game who have been gone for months just this last week, so they are going to be running heavier for now and don’t know who people are and probably don’t care.

Being gone from the game for a while or not knowing who people are shouldn’t affect your nature or behavior. And yeah I was wrong, it was you Oozo that came to the forums a few weeks ago iirc. It’s just disappointing that a group of skilled players lack class and respect that could really make them stand out.

I wasn’t in your screenshots because I logged off early due to frustration for not finding any decent fights. Trust me, 5v2s aren’t the types of fights they are looking for and maybe they were taking their frustrations out on you, I don’t know. I wasn’t there.

Are you running with an [AF] tag now? That is definitely not a small number roaming guild. :P

I was trying to let the others know that he got spiked, but it didn’t come out the right way. :P

Azgarn.2145:

So I remember a couple weeks ago BSty came on the forums complaining about people not playing fair and bringing in more people to fight them and so on… well BSty/AD, this is why no one cares. Me and my roaming buddy somehow keep getting shafted by 5+ of you guys. Even when we hit a group of 10 EB you guys come in from the side and target me (3rd SS). Nice moves. I can feel all respect for other roamers just flowing like a river. Even when we seemingly get a honest 2v2, one of u die, you start to lose and the rest of you jump in. Referring to the fight we had SE of bay (1st SS). Maybe its becuz me and my friend were going to beat you guys 2v5 by hills… yeah a few other BP guys showed up but technically that just made it a even fight (2nd SS). Come on you are BSty/AD, you can handle 5 noobs that arent in TS together.

Anyways for some reason I keep thinking you guys are going to turn around your attitudes and actually be enjoyable to fight but I don’t think thats possible anymore. Stay classy.

Not many people from BSty even post on the forums, so don’t direct your ire towards them. :P

They have also had quite a few people come back to the game who have been gone for months just this last week, so they are going to be running heavier for now and don’t know who people are and probably don’t care.

A necromancer theme song movie. :P

This one is a 5v13+ against a hammer heavy guild group.

Brode.7689:

TUNE is a joke guild right?

I laughed when the TUNE pre-nerf perplexity engineer at the beginning of the movie below blew himself up on his own transferred confusion.

keloorie.6085:

Im running a new guardian and found that it have far more condi dmg from the passive burning,

What?

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

we necros do not have any abilities to face tank focus dmg unless we are taking the minion build or the well build.

What?

alright im not an expert , but IMO we dont have that attrition good?

Necro is the best face-tanking class out there due to DS/Plague/DS chain. We just can’t escape the focus very well. We can take it up the kitten for far longer than any other class though. :P

I thought i said it in the very first reply about that, we are not good at face tanking focus dmg… did I ? pls read well dude

We are the best at face-tanking damage focus damage, not good at escaping it. Escaping damage isn’t the same thing as face-tanking it.

so … when 3 person focusing fire on you, stunning and knocking back, placing 10 stacks of bleed, cofusion, torment on you and you can survive that just by face tanking ? good job

We can survive it better than another class due to high health, death shroud, and plague form. Maybe you don’t fully understand the term ‘face-tank.’

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

we necros do not have any abilities to face tank focus dmg unless we are taking the minion build or the well build.

What?

alright im not an expert , but IMO we dont have that attrition good?

Necro is the best face-tanking class out there due to DS/Plague/DS chain. We just can’t escape the focus very well. We can take it up the kitten for far longer than any other class though. :P

I thought i said it in the very first reply about that, we are not good at face tanking focus dmg… did I ? pls read well dude

We are the best at face-tanking damage focus damage, not good at escaping it. Escaping damage isn’t the same thing as face-tanking it.

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

we necros do not have any abilities to face tank focus dmg unless we are taking the minion build or the well build.

What?

alright im not an expert , but IMO we dont have that attrition good?

Necro is the best face-tanking class out there due to DS/Plague/DS chain. We just can’t escape the focus very well. We can take it up the kitten for far longer than any other class though. :P

Brode.7689:

TakeCare.3182:

First part. We are agreeing that those skills are lifelines, so using 2 of them for 1 stomp is horrible. Also, when that stomp could be used as an epidemic target and his method of stomping isn’t even a 100% stomp.

Second part. That’s why it’s a challenge to him. Also, that’s a cool story bro. However, you had a guaranteed stomp (if you didn’t die) with 1 skill, it just so happened that you needed to use 2 for the stomp.

@MethaneGas
If I were you and you had a guardian down with a glassy person near you, I would stack conditions on both/the downed guardian and epidemic him. They both die, you go help kill the other 2.

Also, your little trick doesn’t work 100% of the time. I’ve stopped thieves 100s of times from doing their shadowstep stomps. Here’s a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjzhsAxA6Ho

There goes your 2 wasted skills.

Now Plague stomp. Here in your own video, you could have gotten a guaranteed stomp with it, instead of just using it without a stomp. There was another spot in your video as well, but didn’t feel like searching for it.

http://youtu.be/fhcaEyWW-sc?t=8m1s

Edit: Oh just a tip, you don’t have to keep pressing #2 or whatever you’re using in Plague. Just press it once and you’re set.

Yeah, if someone sees what you are doing it can be countered either deliberately or randomly. I’m not a fan of using long cooldowns to get a stomp unless it’s a rally situation or something like that.

I think the best thing about the walk/wurm set up is the ability to shed focus, not really for the gimmick stomps. I suspect that just a simple dagger 4 to blind will net you just about as many stomps with no utility investment and on a much shorter cooldown.

keloorie.6085:

we necros do not have any abilities to face tank focus dmg unless we are taking the minion build or the well build.

What?

Monkeymonger.9235:

In my opinion it is a bad trade since you will miss the dps against dangerous targets (any form of dps/burst build).

Yeah, one way to deal with thieves is to hit them really hard when they jump on you and that kind of requires terror.

One thing I’d be concerned about with relying on spectral walk and the wurm is when you come across an enemy that thinks (I know, I know… but stick with me here) that sees what you are doing and starts anticipating it. An observant thief would actually camp out near your wurm when you are fighting and wait for you to port out. You’d be separated from your group so they would have no way to prevent you from getting stealth-stomped. That’s assuming you port out with low health and your defenses on cooldown.

Necros really need to have friendlies near them when they get downed.

The stomp trick has been known about for awhile, but most don’t want to invest the long CDs into stomping. Best to let your thieves, warriors, and guardians get the stomps if you have them.

I won’t argue over survivability vs. damage. Being able to facetank with DS/Plague and having the option to port to safety when your defense is down or when there are just too many to facetank is good. Mobility is king when it comes to survivability. I personally prefer going with more damage and have my team take care of me when I’m in trouble. Having terror is great for putting the nail on the coffin when you spot the low targets from your condi spreads.

One thing that I don’t think can be argued is that it can be hard to make a condi necro movie look flashy, and I think the mobility stuff makes for an entertaining movie. And, that is what is most important. Right?

vincecontix.1264:

Oozo.7856:

vincecontix.1264:

2 wars, 2 guards, +1 of anything else, Though good players can play anything a still be successful vs larger group of bads. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs end thread.

These guys are running with way more than five.

Yea Know that but I was just using it as an example of war+guard comp versing absolutely ridiculous numbers. Instead of 5v10+ there are like 10-15v30+. 2 war+2guard +1 of anything (prob necro) = win.

Melee focus training isn’t nearly as effective 5v5 as it is for 10v10 or more. I’m strictly talking about the standard PVT warriors and guardians you see from larger groups though. They don’t do as well in 5v5s since their damage is pretty weak.

And, I notice that the warrior in the movie is DPS double axes but I’m sure the main core of their warriors and guardians (which are allowing them to fight those numbers) are PVT.

That playstyle just doesn’t translate over well to smaller scale fights. I’m just speaking from my own personal experiences though, I’m sure there are exceptions.

Banzie.5248:

Oozo.7856:

RazGerb.6173:

Here is another reward for Dragonbrand being the most zerg trashy server I ever seen.

Actually ran across some DB tonight that were running reasonable numbers and had some good fights.

What, Is this post for real?

Outside of guild groups all db is is blob.

From [Mend] To ebay, Was extremely fun in your keep tonight Glad we made you go through so many strategies and im not sad to admit you made us go through some acs :P More then paid themselves from the amount of bodies your continually threw at us. Just sad DB didn’t join the action more with their 80 man so we could both wipe em.

Well, it is Thursday. Less people come out late in the matchup. They were running in manageable numbers in EB BL, at least.

RazGerb.6173:

Here is another reward for Dragonbrand being the most zerg trashy server I ever seen.

Actually ran across some DB tonight that were running reasonable numbers and had some good fights.

sephiroth.4217:

Oozo.7856:

Well, there was a previous matchup where some people from [RUN] spam laughed a few people they killed that they outnumbered. Typically speaking, these things happen on both sides.

So, if you weren’t there when your side did it then you think they are just being kittens.

I’ll be sure to look into that but I think it might have been some of the 7 or so people we kicked in the last few weeks for emoting instead of regrouping.

I wasn’t trying to get anyone in trouble. Just saying it happens on both sides. Most of it just some form of in-game ‘revenge’ and I wouldn’t take any of it too seriously.

I personally only emote people who have done it to me or people who tried to zerg us down but died. :P

Well, there was a previous matchup where some people from [RUN] spam laughed a few people they killed that they outnumbered. Typically speaking, these things happen on both sides.

So, if you weren’t there when your side did it then you think they are just being kittens.

vincecontix.1264:

2 wars, 2 guards, +1 of anything else, Though good players can play anything a still be successful vs larger group of bads. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs end thread.

These guys are running with way more than five.

Dynnen.6405:

Sororita.3465:

Im surprised the whole noob/carebear/little timmy/clueless guild pow wow (AD/BSty/EV/NA) didnt all come here at once, seems the only way you guys are able to do anything nowadays. What, no searching the forums for the best complementary forum waring composition and running that for months in a row? Almost kept a straight face there, thinking i in anyway care that much to come to the forums and seriously complain >.< priceless. I only come on here to cause drama for the Mrs.Buns to laugh at your reactions and you provided it in droves.

Yea, judging from the screenshot taken, the forum post, and fall-back of ‘Im just forum trollin, not really mad; lololol’ that ur a bit mad that you died. Its cool though, plz continue explaining how you aren’t mad. It provides us with plenty of lols as well =D

I personally find the self back-patting about how they provoked us into giving irrational emotional responses the best part of it. I get the feeling that sitting around and congratulating each other over non-events is a big part of their lives. :P

You do a lot of fake complaining given that you fake complain in every single matchup thread and start fake complaint posts fake complaining about how hard it is to roam solo/duo as a necro. Or were those real complaints. How can I tell the difference?

Here are a couple of 8-9v20+ fights.

These kinds of fights are manageable. I get frustrated when we roam around for hours and only find people lost and separated from their zerg, solo/duo roamers, or 40+ man zergs with not much in between.

bokkieskitten.8023:

Dynnen.6405:

Sororita.3465:

[Btsy]….do you guys even fight fair fights? We all know you dont fight larger numbers because you come here complaining about it, so do you actively try to find 5 mans or do you just choose to pick on solo roamers, roamer pairs or people running to rejoin the zerg fight? ( especially those where the other two servers are involved). Would be amazed if you also didnt run Meta builds too, bloody pikeys.

No 90% of the time Bsty is outnumbered and do fight those fights. No they don’t come here to complain about it, thats myself and Oozo. They and we ‘pick’ on whoever they can get their hands on, yes that includes hitting two larger groups that are currently fighting each other (interestingly enough one of the 30+ man grps usually turns on us). Do they run meta builds? I could be wrong but support/condi non-perplexity engie or dps guardian meta aren’t really meta.

*We also love to jump three people with our large group. We are so good we can take three whole people with eight!

In truth…..We need to be able to stroke our virtual penors, so we chase three or less across a map to feel good about our lack luster selves.*

P.S. Classic wow sucked, most people just lack perspective.

Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Must be hard being you.

Arrange a 3v3 with them. Some of them are more than willing to duel.

On a side note, we view a 3v8 as something that is at least manageable and possibly winnable. 5v40s, not so much.

First fights in this movie are 5v10 or more against enemy guild preforms.

Sororita.3465:

Oozo.7856:

DB takes the prize for the worst zerging trash server of them all. Good job, and well deserved.

the 60 man rolls the 40 man
the 40 man rolls the 20 man
the 20 man rolls the 10 man
the 10 man rolls the 5 man
the 5 man+ rolls the solo roamer

welcome to WvW?

DB is more the 40+ man chase the 5 man all the way across the map type of server often times failing to kill any of them. It is extremely rare to find any smaller sized roaming groups on DB. [SYN] is about all I’ve seen. [EA] a bit larger, but at least they don’t run with 20+ and pugs.

You should put a 5man together. I’ve been killed plenty of times by preform 5mans while soloing on my necro and I never complain about that on the forums, because I know they aren’t zerging trash. They are out there with 5 people and most of their fights are against zergs, not killing solo roamers.

There is a huge difference between a 5v1 and a 40v5.

DB takes the prize for the worst zerging trash server of them all. Good job, and well deserved.

Yes, IoJ garrison. Here is a a love song for IoJ from the heart

Kind of a surprising score for this matchup.

I get it. Just saying that we weren’t piling on. We took every camp in DB BL and the response after several minutes was just a couple of guys. IMO, you need to blame DB.

We took out a huge hunk of their golem push from behind, BTW. :P

We were in DB BL first, but it was completely dead. There was nobody to fight. So, we switched to IoJ BL and had the outmanned buff when we first got there.

Keep in mind that DB doesn’t have very good NA coverage. So, if you aren’t in their BL and they aren’t in their BL (but are in yours instead) then people looking for fights during the primetime hours will end up in IoJ BL.

Aberrant.6749:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

4 NOPE v 12 mag

#bagsnearlyfull #SomeVR #funfights #pancakes

You seem to have missed a person as well. 5TC v 12 mag, no one will be impressed now.

Where is the “versus” there? They are in a tower.

Awesome moderation.

It’s really impressive how broken these forums are sometimes.

Preforms vs. preforms

Preforms vs. preforms

For any interested here is an alternate thread for this matchup.

http://www.gw2wvw.net/forum/4

Lopez.7369:

Straegen.2938:

You are implying you should never have to adjust a build to handle another build. Not being able to do 1.5k of direct damage to another player is the limiting factor here not Diamond Skin. Adapt… everyone else had to when condi-bunkers started roaming around all over the place. These two traits aren’t even build defining and any player that loses to an D/D ele stuck in water should just quit playing that build.

People adapted to condition builds by changing a couple traits or utility skills. You’re telling condition necromancers to adapt by changing to power necromancer, which is a completely different archetype. That’s why Diamond Skin is a hard counter to condition builds.

Besides, there are better ways to balance condition builds without adding blanket immunities. More condition cleansing or duration reduction are just two examples. An immunity like Berserker Stance, which is time limited, would work as well.

Correct.

Passive damage reduction = Okay, no problem.
Passive damage immunity = WTKitten are you smoking?

Activated damage immunity on a cooldown = Okay, no problem
Passive damage immunity = WTKitten are you smoking?

Snorcha.7586:

jeez just the hit the elementalist a couple of times prior to applying you’re conditions, they have the worst armour and hp in the game, and 10% of their health drops if just look at them the wrong way… this thread.. lol.

They are also one of the worst classes at healing themselves.

glaphen.5230:

Prysin.8542:

Lopez.7369:

Penguin.5197:

Hard counters are there for stopping easy mode play from becoming too rampant.

And soloing 3 people at once? lol I’m guessing none of you bothered to take power at all and probably all ran bunky condition stats. Seriously all you had to do was have one person with a power build and he would have dropped easily.

That doesn’t make any sense. Diamond Skin is the definition of easy mode play. It’s a passive that makes other passives stronger.

Besides, that’s not the right philosophy toward balance. Easy play should be made naturally unrewarding and countered by stronger play. That’s basic game design.

I’m also not sure what easy play you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that engineer is easy to play? And what makes condition builds any easier than power builds? How is a phantasm mesmer or minion master necromancer more difficult to play than condition builds?

oZii.2864:

Not everyone runs 30/20/0/0/20 condition build, I run 30/20/20/0/0 on my Necro because greater marks is a powerful trait. I see more condition Necro’s running greater marks now then 30/20/0/0/20 standard Terrormancer.

Everyone does at high-level play, which is where balance needs to be focused on.

Your response misses the broader point of the post, anyway.

Well, last time Anet tried to introduce a “soft counter” was with stealth. They gave rangers the ability to apply revealed. Look how efficient that was.
The devs at Anet might need to reflect upon the saying “There is a difference between shaving and cutting ones head off” (poorly translated from my own language, sorry).

They seem to make fairly balanced “hard counters”.

Necro OP -> hammer warrior
Can hammer warrior be beaten? -> yes, it can.
Conditions OP -> The profession with the hardest time dealing with those, ele, got diamond skin
Can diamond skin be dealt with -> yes it can.

Elementalist the class that has the hardest time dealing with conditions. Seriously?

Elementalists have a hard time with getting two shot by zerker backstab thieves from stealth. They should have given elementalists immunity to direct damage (until under 90% health, of course)

glaphen.5230:

Oozo.7856:

The chances that a condi necro runs with lich form just in case they run across a diamond skin elementalist are pretty close to zero. :P

The chances that a condition Necromancer finds an Elementalist taking Diamond Skin is around the same.

Quite a few elems use it in WvW. They run around looking for condition builds to troll. :P

It doesn’t bother me much since I run with mixed damage type groups. Diamond skin is fine for group fights, stupid for 1v1s. But, 1v1s in this game are mostly stupid to begin with anyway.

The chances that a condi necro runs with lich form just in case they run across a diamond skin elementalist are pretty close to zero. :P

Tibstrike.2974:

Oozo.7856:

Conditions have no passive mitigation.

Tell that to the many people out there who use Melandru and Lemongrass. That is what I use on my guardian.

I was speaking in terms of traits (toughness) and skills. Of course there is food and runes but anyone using condis use their own to offset the reduction.

I’m coming from the point of him being upset that one class can hard counter him now. It’s such a trial not being able to kill all 7 other professions. Now he can only kill 6 of them easily.

I believe that the OP mains a guardian. It might do you some good to roll a necro and go duel some good players.

Straegen.2938:

Derek.9021:

But condi removal is that dmg reduction. You can’t take away from a power build hitting you with a sword, you have that dmg. If you get hit by a mark, you can cleanse.

Ways to decrease direct damage:

block, dodge, invuln, toughness, blind, weakness, reflect and I am sure I am missing more.

Ways to decrease condi damage:

remove the condition (which we have very little control over), reduce the duration, use one of two traits that make a player invuln to them

Oh, so you are saying that you can’t block, dodge, invuln, blind, reflect attacks that put conditions on you? Interesting.