Maguuma threads are weird.
A few decent fights tonight. Hope it doesn’t end when the weekend’s over.
These points can be capped by 1 player that give outnumbered servers a chance to be able to actually win some fights.
No, they can not. Maybe one point can, but you cannot solo cap and hold 3. They decay fast enough that by the time you’ve capped 2, the first one decaps. You need at least 2 people to cap them, assuming you encounter 0 resistance.
The points themselves are actually relatively well designed in this way, but the psychological effect of not thinking you deserve your wins, or feeling cheated out of a win in a fight — because of an unfair stat bonus — is just extremely disheartening.
Plus, the server with the higher pop is more likely to have the buffs at any given time. I’m sure small groups can coordinate to hold the buffs for a little bit, but generally the bigger servers will just recap them pretty quickly.
This thread is near impossible to read, and I fear that a lot of good points made up in threads merged into this were lost.
i heard jq is paying for guilds to transfer because they’re so desperate lol leagues #pay2win
Can confirm.
Not engi, not ranger, not thief.
Done.
Preemptive edit: don’t hate me medium classes. I love you.
On the topic of merging, I have noticed the impression that we merge to hide discussion, and this could not be further from the truth. As I mentioned previously, we pass on feedback to the development team regularly. What makes that more difficult is having anywhere from 5 to 50 threads on a single topic. I understand that each thread may have its own sub-conversations taking place, but when it comes to being able to parse and provide feedback to the developers, one thread per topic is best. I disagree with your stance that merging destroys conversations. I encourage everybody to use quote tags to keep a conversation going post-merge by quoting the posts you are replying to.
The problem with merging, as I brought up in my original post about it that was deleted, is that it becomes increasingly harder for developers and players to know what the topic is even about. There are posts about lag, zergs, roaming, stat buffs, bugs, suggestions, etc, and many deserve to be in different topics because when merged the posts don’t make any sense anymore. A lot of response posts don’t use the quote function, and it’s hard to tell where a new topic starts and an old one ends.
It’s not the players’ fault that there are a lot of complicated issues with this new patch. There are probably 9 different threads now in that one merged post, and many of them have entirely different angles to approach a complex issue. Merging more into it is doing the entire community a disservice, and even worse, stifling discussion on these practices by removing posts about them does NOT help public opinion on the matter.
I started a very well mannered discussion on why I feel like the thread merging is hurting discussion on this subforum. The tone and responses were very similar to this thread. Nothing was disrespectful or against the ToS, but it was removed for, and I quote, “complaining about moderation.”
Are we not allowed to discuss how our threads are being derailed by overmoderation and merging? My point remains that the flow of discussion is disrupted when threads are merged and the resulting merged threads are very very hard to follow. I cannot see how anyone, developers and moderators included, would be able to discern any kind of information from these fragmented threads with 30 different topics going around.
Agreed. 50 points isn’t so bad, and you would have at least a modicum of control over it if it only affected your map.
As it is currently, even if you control the map you are on, you still can’t do anything about 2 of the 3 potential buffs on your opponent.
Theory: Devon plays on JQ. This would explain a lot.
Regardless, I would be VERY interested in hearing about this alternate buff.
Just because you don’t understand what’s going on in a GvG doesn’t mean there is no skill required.
Honestly, as someone who roams, does sPvP, raids, and does GvGs, GvGs require far more attention and skill than anything else in the game.
I actually love the new zone… I just hate the buff. The buff itself is terrible and killing WvW. The servers we were up against just gave up, and there were no fights at all. We had to call our raid 3 hours early, because after the 10th keep flip, it just becomes boring.
Every single time the buff changes hands, the server has to recalculate literally everyone in WvW’s stats and it lags pretty terribly. The biggest fight I’ve had while this was happening was a 5v5 and even that was unplayable for 5-10 seconds. One member of my group even lagged off a cliff and died. I can’t imagine how it will be later tonight during NA primetime with 20v20+.
Ironic that the one aspect of this patch that the community didn’t want is lagging the servers out of control.
Yeah I’ve seen quite a few people running around with the iron hide buff off of rams. I also nearly lag out every time the bloodlust buff changes hands. It’s very very laggy for a few seconds. Could make a big difference in large fights.
I know you said you didn’t want to comment on this, but these stats are ridiculous on my
guardian.
Atk: 3464, Crit %: 54, Crit Damage: 68, 23k health, 3700 armor with 3 bloodlust, 25 bloodlust, 5 guard leech, and 5 applied fort.
Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.
My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.
This plus the bloodlust is going to make a lot of people quit… good luck having much of a community after this season…
Thread this week is pretty terrible. Same with the matchup.
Here’s hoping to TC next week.
A few good fights here and there tonight. Hopefully we can find some more later in the week.
I actually think the new points are actually kind of cool, minus the cannon. The stat buff, however, gives an unfair advantage to larger servers and will ruin a lot of open field fights.
Agreed. I’m no student of game design, but I really think Devon and crew have ignored a very large portion of the dedicated populace of WvW, and it’s showing.
I mean, the old GvG scene thread has spent a page or two discussing other games to move to. Anet is at a huge risk of losing most of their organized, competitive PvP players.
After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.
I miss Habib. He removed culling and understood the community.
If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make it very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.
This is the best idea I’ve heard on the issue.
The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.
You could have made it easily in a way that the buff is contributing to points or points gain. The fact that you made it a stat buff proves that you did not learn from the orb´s . Very unfortunate that anet is so resistant to learn from previous failures.
It’s funny, because the old devs completely understood the snowball effect that the orbs caused. There are old quotes from Habib talking about this very issue and explaining why orbs were removed.
Wildstar seems to have alot of pvp formats also
Sadly though I don’t think anything will compete with the level/depth of combat that GW2 can offer. The combat system in GW2 is simply amazing. Combo fields alone make it a diamond in the rough…
I’m not holding my breath for any of the upcoming options.
I think TESO will be good for the “macro” scale of combat (top down strategizing), but the field fights….I’m far less hopeful. Wildstar is up in the air. We don’t know enough about EQ Next yet. ArcheAge looks pretty similar to TESO, but again we don’t know enough. CU will be one to keep an eye on, but it’s gonna be 2-3 years before anything reveals itself there.
As they say….time will tell.
There is nothing deep in GW2 combat because everything is wasted – combat is a mess.
Wildstar will have all PvP features: arenas, bgrounds, open PvP with OBJECTIVES, 40v40 Warplots and a combat system mixed of best arounds mmo (builds diversity of gw1, dash, double jump etc).
Wildstar devs specifically said that the open world pvp won’t be objective based.
The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.
By “controversial” do you mean “universally opposed”?
I wouldn’t hold my breath on the queuing issues been fixed in the nearest future.
And allowing more players into a zone isn’t the right way to go, since the servers can barely handle 30v30 action without breaking down, resulting in heavy skill-lag and such.
As others have pointed out it’s bound to get worse the closer we get to the season 1, as people will obviously want to have an easy ride for their precious rewards, with minimal to no effort, and that leads them to jump to already over-stacked servers like the one your on.
30v30 is actually fine on NA. We don’t get skill lag until 60v60v60.
People who hate GvG are either pugs, in a bad guild, or are in NA T1.
Anyone know if ESO’s RvR is any good?
T1 players cannot complain about queues.
I actually did Sorrow’s Embrace with a couple devs last night after the TW match, and got an opportunity to talk with them briefly about GvG.
I can confirm that the existing GvG team was disbanded.
Not too surprised by this, unfortunately…
Dear Kalkz and Company,
While your efforts for defense were indeed valourous, I love all you folk turning into loot bags for us burn and mags peeps. We sure do appreciate it. Any chance next time you can drop a precursor or two? We’d appreciate it.
Thank you,
Your new map management, maguuma
This post prompted me to take over. I usually don’t command Monday nights due to work, but well, I love a challenge like this. An overrun borderland is like a virgin field, waiting to be plowed anew :P Was alot of fun fighting you guys tonight. We won some fights, and lost some, but you never did get Garrison or Bay back from us after we got them back. I think that was okay with PYRO though, they seemed to just be rolling around looking for fights towards the end.
Yeah, we were just trying out some new things tonight. Thanks for the fights! Our 25 man had a lot of fun.
Altie
On the point of the buff being neutral, that would be impossible as the buff can only be taken if 1 server caps 3 points. The buff will be kept even if the said server has 0 capture points, correct me if I’m wrong here.
Anyway, this subject is not the meaning of this great postI’ll have to check but from what I interpreted their post as it was “you must hold all 3 points to receive a buff” So neutralizing one of the points should neutralize the buff meaning it’s not perpetually active somewhere.
Neutralizing the points does not strip the buff. You have to actually cap it from someone.
This may be a bit off topic, but how do you lose the blootlust buff anyway? On the dev stream he lost the contoll points and still had it.
It has to be taken from you. Meaning, another server has to actually cap it. Neutralizing it doesn’t get rid of the buff.
I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.
It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.
It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.
Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.
None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.
We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.
So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.
That bothers me.
Thank you, I thought I made it quite apparent what the OP was about but it seems some people still feel the need to draw lines in the sand and start throwing rocks. Your reply is very much appreciated.
I feel like the open field community unfortunately did this to itself by trying to use GvG to back all of our arguments. GvG is great and all, but I really feel like it’s only a small aspect of what these guilds do.
WvW, by Devon Carver’s own definition, includes open field fighting. I wish we had framed our arguments against his proposed changes with that in mind.
I agree with both of the above posters. We need something, just not a stat bonus.
Trying for the 3rd time to post here. Maybe the forum doesnt like it, but this is the first good trap that anyone would activly buy.
I feel like it adds a new mechanic by forcing people to pay attention to where they want to fight. A well organized group could kite a large zerg into a choke, strip their Bloodlust with pre placed traps, and fight on a more even footing.
I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.
It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.
It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.
Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.
None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.
We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.
So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.
That bothers me.
VP have had a good time in Mag BL today.
Props to PYRO… always good fights with you guys.
/salute
Uh… we’re in BP bl tonight…
15v15 seems unfair to me. How about 5v20?
So Mag is in t4 and not crushing? Did something change?
We have a pretty low weekend population. I know I don’t really raid at all during the weekend.
If you think Zergs only exist in Tier 1-2 and sometimes 3. In EU you are sorely mistaken. My guild will always fight the zergs, zergs are all that is wrong with the game, they develop no skill level by running in zergs. If anything the quality of opponent is worse the higher the tier. The guild groups of mid tiers are a lot harder to fight than the huge zergs of higher tiers.
People in general like max reward for little effort, thus they will zerg, they will not improve and thus get farmed by guilds. Long may the circle of life continue.
PPT people need to get off their high horses though, most self respecting WvW guilds earn more points in the 4+ hours they raid each day without trying/obsessing over points – just a by-product of looking for fights, than they will do during the same day.
EU has more zergs during primetime among all the tiers because there are less timezones in EU that people play in. NA has like an 8 hour+ primetime.
Couldn’t agree more with this post.
However, I also feel like it hurts open field fighting outside of GvG. Most of the active WvW guilds do raids and focus primarily on open field combat. This new buff really hurts a large segment of the WvW population by destroying any sense of fairness these fights might’ve had.
No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.
How would it lessen the value of the buff? At this point, it just sounds like you’re making excuses. If it was optional to turn off, everyone wins.
Personally, I think the new buff ruins the spirit of fair open field fights. I don’t really want the buff, and I don’t want my guild to have the buff. It’s not fun winning or losing a fight because of something that happened outside of that fight.
My idea to deal with the buff: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Suggestion-Trap-that-removes-Bloodlust/first#post2795692
Basically, if there was a trap that removed the buff, we could just apply that trap to each other before GvGs, and it could be useful in PPT fighting, too.
While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
We get pretty bad skill lag in NA, but only in queue v queue fights. Maybe Anet has bad EU server infrastructure.
I think that there should be more than just “take the bloodlust from the other team” to counter the new mechanic. A lot of servers are hopelessly outgunned during certain points of the day (my server, Maguuma, has approximately 15 people who play during Oceanic primetime) and literally cannot afford to leave the keeps they are defending to take the new bloodlust buff.
Why not create a new trap that temporarily (say 15-30 minutes) removes the bloodlust buff? This allows for the playing field to be leveled against much larger servers and adds a new dynamic of play. I don’t see traps used very often, but I know I would buy a stack of them if this was introduced.
What makes me laugh is that the new seasons will have matches like these all the time. I don’t think Devon understands what a huge difference there is between even a couple of ranks.
I don’t think Devon plays WvW.
I am 9000% sure that he does not.
Like it or not, all of the threads about GvG DO relate to WvW because GvG happens in WvW and is a simulation of open field combat. Even by the barest of definitions, GvG is open field combat, which last time I checked, is a part of WvW.
Half of the hostility from the GvG community is because of all of their threads being moved to dead subforums and abandoned. Let there be a real discussions about this issue instead of simply moving things that you don’t want to have to talk about.