Guild Wars 2

That spell meta tho

Thread approved.

#Evanhelpus

10/10 OP – any more tips for handling thieves on Rev?

Hmm this might have a big impact on the game. This ‘back to roots’ approach could be very good for PvP if it’s realised.

For him to take over… Sounds like drastic measures. I hope they pay off.

Good luck Colin. I didn’t read all the deats, but if as the above suggests you are moving to Amazon that sounds like exciting stuff.

I’m not going to run through everything HS covered, but essentially.

- addresses issues encountered by people who genuinely set out to ‘carry’ teams – that’s exclusively a high level player mentality however, certainly not applicable to newer players.

- makes a valid point about player skill and gameplay ‘goals’. Competitive gaming is about YOU improving. Not fancy gear or titles, and anyone who only seeks the latter will never be happy in this environment.

From an idealistic perspective I’d prefer barriers of progression through leagues too, however my only concerns are tied to the averse commercials of doing this to a community of mostly MMO ‘carebears’.

Conquest unchecked trolololol

Not experienced problems on EU. Don’t always feel like my team is stronger, either.

If you win consistently now the MMR gods don’t pair you up with thumbless kids to impart some universal karma.

I like that.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Phaeton.9582

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

Your description makes them sound meaningful, but I agree so far it’s been a walkover. Still it’s much more rewarding to stronger players in terms of progression speed. Certainly didn’t encounter a close 5v5 match in the first 3 tiers.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zoose.1640:

Since the season is so short they should just implement placement matches and have it go from there. Last season for me was actually good towards the end because it did weed out a lot of players and I was already Legend x6, so most of my matches were quality matches.

I was talking on stream today about how discouraging it would be for a new player and also as to how easy it is to obtain Legendary even for fairly above average players, so why not just speed your process up by having placement matches instead of having good players grind and force lesser players to lose constantly vs that.

This^^^ .. but some people are so sticker up on their side that they fail to see the bigger picture. Thanks for your input ZOOSE.

Now we have 3 pro player on this thread alone giving their take on the system.

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

rwolf.9571:

claytonmorby.3751:

Hm do you play at a really low pop time? If you’re tier 4 it’s definitely possible you could pull sapphires, ambers shouldn’t be a thing though

Nope this was during the day. I lol’d when I saw a sapphire on the other team, and a emerald duo que’d with a amber. lost 180-500 something along those lines.

If they’re in a party the new system will treat them at the highest division in the group.

Please also remember guys (inb4 qq snowball), that a chunk of this argument about MMR are just weak players looking for luck-based reasons for being outclassed in a division.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Well, I will address and hopefully correct some of your more eggregious misstatements and misassumptions.

Personally I presume I did not have a low mmr at start of seas 2. I was in ruby, 100% solo, 2 pips from diamond. I didn’t make it cuz the last 2 days, tried to “breeze thru wins” using old losing strategies from seas 1, and it hurt my ability to get diamond and prolly my mmr too. But whatever. With a high number of games under my belt, and a 53% win ratio, I don’t think my mmr was reflective of a lower tier player. I breezed thru amber and 1st tier emerald in less than an hr day one.

Then all of sudden, my skill seems to have vanished. I started losing. The first games lost were due to the afkers etc who still thought losing games was still a good way to win this season ( I would never engage in such tactics, I always try to win). I had some dc’ers. I had some who threw games for their friends. We got stomped by rerolling/op/gimmicky teams on ts. Fine. I guess spvp is now a team sport exclusively.

In addition, once I started losing, mmr started matching me w/ poorer players (day 1-2 of seas 2). I play alot. I couldn’t save all the matches. Sometimes you just get matched w/ ppl who r not a good fit (rerolls wont help or not available) or who don’t know how to play spvp.

I am not, as arrogantly implied by many, upset about facing better players. In fact, that’s what I like about spvp – the competition. That way I can get better if I need to.

You mention that you don’t like to carry people who “don’t know what a node is.” What do you think I am encountering. How come it is perfectly okay for me to encounter people needing to be carried endlessly, but not you. I don’t understand. I paid the same amount for this game as you.

I don’t see any psychological mumbo jumbo, unless of course, anyone with emotions, opinions, and a brain is having psychological mumbo jumbo.

And please, try to refrain from telling people like me that our frustration is silly and insulting. I don’t really appreciate it. Please don’t demean my experience. I take offense at your efforts to deminimize my frustration, and others, especially since in my case, I have been playing pvp on GW for 14 years.

I am not paired with ppl in my skill level. I did not sink to this level because of my personal skill.

Think about it. My mmr is not calculated solely (or even necessarily primarily) by my personal skill level. It is calculated by the sum total of all the games I have played, and thus includes, and perhaps is primarily the result of, the personal skill levels as well the desire/ability to play exhibited by all my teammates.

This isn’t about right or wrong. There have been some horrible miscalculations and design flaws that are horribly skewed, and not panning out according to the “purist” model as designed, and consequently, the system is punishing longstanding, loyal members of the gw family, as well as punishing most casual pvp players, which unfortunately anymore, is most of the gw2 population base.

Remember, as I face more and more losses it will be impossible for me to claw my way up and in the interim, I am forced to play beneath my own personal skill level (contrary to what you may think), and it is quite frustrating and demoralizing. My last 4 matches even had players who admitted they deliberately dc’ed or akitten. They were reported, chat recorded, but so what – I still lost my pips and my downward spiral continues. What was it that I was supposed to do. I am at the bottom playing with people who don’t know how to play. There is no support. I can kill 1 v 4, but so what. If my teammates are doing nothing and 1 is afk, and the rest quit because of this, or they don’t care (cus its just one game after all), how is this my fault or reflective of my skill?

Also, as to your suggestion that players at the bottom can always go play unranked, cuz that’s where we presumably belong, is rather presumptuous. Without ever seeing any of us play, how would you know where our skill level is really at? Besides, in unranked, players go in there to fight one another one-on-one mid map or to test builds. How would that help me or anyone else, even presuming we need help and need to get better (and btw I don’t personally need help – since playing spvp since beta has taught me how to play by now). How is this suggestion a solution. You’re actually telling me to go do something else. Why don’t we all just go to pve too, and never pvp?

I am entitled to refuse to play w/ friends. That is my prerogative. If anet wanted all ranked pvp to be team based, w/friends, then anet should should make it mandatory that all people form a team in order to play ranked pvp, and should also eliminate the hotjoin button. Also, btw, my friends don’t want to risk lowering their cumulative mmr, by carrying a kitten player cuz the match-ups offer them no team support and players are often clueless about strategy or builds and sometimes, even with 2 good players, you still can’t save the team to rise up out of the lowest tiers.

Your own statement says it all: You “don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is.” Yah, its not fun. I am not enjoying it either.

I also don’t want to be “carried.” I have never been carried in pvp. I play 100% solo, and always have and always will. Its a preference. I don’t want to feel forced to do what “top players” think I should do to fix my dilemma, or to improve my fun level or skill level.

Also, my cumulative mmr is now shot forever. I will never be able to claw my way out of the bottom, probably not this season, and possibly never. Its not fun. Its the antithesis of fun. If you want to come carry me, please do so.

However, I will continue to empathize and support the same frustrations other players are experiencing as well and are quitting the game over. I don’t want GW to die. I want anet to try to fix it.

Don’t presume I play ranked pvp for the backpiece either. I don’t care about the backpiece at all. I don’t even want it. I play pvp specifically because I like strong competition. Now I must endure frustration endlessly and believe me, its not fun.

Contrary to what you say and imply, at least at it applies in my case, no matter how many times you say it or imply it, I am not a bad player. My mmr is the cumulative result of the skill levels and motivations of the teammates I get paired with, along with my personal skill and other external factors like lag, dcs, etc. I can get punished very badly if my teammates are bad. I am living proof of that.

And why is it, finally, that you emphasize your suggestions with italics, and bolding, but that is not considered drawing attention to your posts over and above what others have posted by using capital letters or other punctuation to emphasize theirs? You seem to have a nice understanding of forum rules, hence your suggestion to me as to how to post my replies. Please elucidate for me what you know of the rules that makes bolding and italics ok, but other punctuation, font types, capital letters, or other formatting means of typing emphasis are not ok. I would appreciate an education in this regard instead. Thanks for your anticipated help in this regard.

Please do not think I have not considered your viewpoint. I just think until you walk a mile in my shoes for one day in pvp, under the present system, that you are showing an amazing lack of understanding of the issues.

Also, please remember I am new to the forums. I have never felt the need to come onto the forums for anything in 14 yrs of playing gw.

+1 … nicely put

If you spent the time taken writing these posts playing the game, you wouldn’t be struggling at emerald.

Jus sayin

If I was to take a shot at bunker engis, I would nerf the hammer over bunker down GM.

Also opposed to removing fake casts of any kind on any class.

Ranger pet damage needs to be redistributed to skill shots from the ranger, so with this point in part.

There’s really so much to improve, but sadly fun for PvP =\= fun for PvE, so real change is doubtful…

You’re suggesting a nerf to some things that don’t need a nerf (such as elixir S) but a change to chill, adaptive armour etc is warranted.

I think these are good ideas on the whole.

I like how you are able to highlight important points through capitalisation.

If you’re are quit for 17 days the devs won’t know your gone

PS: What division were you in S1?

lead.7543:

Phaeton.9582:

good luck in Kenya!

Is that meant to be an insult with racist connotations?

?

Link.1049:

Last season for comparison I was happy making it to Ruby. Given that there are 6 divisions you’d think that average players could reasonably expect to fall somewhere in the middle there, so either Sapphire or Ruby. What I’m seeing is that many people are getting artificially pushed down at the entry gates.

What we’re advocating here is what I like to term ‘Trickle Down Necronomics’.

Essentially there is a net increase in pips attributed to Necromancers harnessing the power of chill. As these Necromancer climb their divisions, they create opportunities for other players to fill those places, as well as occasionally being matched up and carried by a group of Necromanci.

Through this effect, the success of the Necromancer is gradually passed down to other non-necro players, which will result in these players attaining higher divisions that would otherwise be unreachable.

Thanks for reading.

Krysard.1364:

Wanderer’s tankiness so op

tehe

Cynz.9437:

What current system needs is better placement system at begin of the season so not so experienced players don’t get farmed first few days.

I think everyone that’s going to get this point should have got it by now.

This thread has turned into a salt mine.

free your mind maaaan

That’s the toughest achievement in the game tbf

I’ll probably go offline until you get back – good luck in Kenya!

wtf is this

Cynz.9437:

jessiestiles.9437:

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

snip

There may be a few swept up in unfortunate circumstances, but here’s my point. First off, these players got out on that team in the first place because the game saw them at a similar MMR. It’s not like they were placed with people that were significantly lower than their MMR (which can happen in Unranked, when they try to balance the MMRs across team). Secondly, because the old Unranked system tried to balance teams, people get under this assumption that because their win ratio is 50-55% elsewhere that they are at least average players or better. Many players have convinced themselves that they are better than they truly are, and that’s another unfortunate side effect of this new system. Some people are getting a dose of reality but they are the same people who blame the system rather than themselves.

Point is, I think people are over-attributing their losses to the “system”, and are under-attributing their losses to their lack of skill.

And I’m not sure why people get floored by the suggestion, but que up with a couple buddies to get yourself out of the rut you’re in. You have the power to fix the rut of you think you’re just being wronged, que with better players which should help your MMR.

Couldn’t say this better.

Also, this is Sunday 4 pm HotM. I don’t see that many amber icons. Apparently majority is NOT sitting in 100 games loss streaks.

Maybe the ambers on losing streaks quit to do something else more produtive and/or enjoyable and you are unknowingly arguing in favor of irrepairably damaged game.

OR majority don’t even post nor read forums. They actually play game. This is reality :P

And they’re not horrible at it. I played through amber late last week, and honestly felt pretty comfortable 1v2ing any two players I encountered.

Go on metabattle.com, run the build and learn your class. Sorry to sound mean, but I think anyone would advocate that to someone losing 100 games straight at amber.

Malediktus.9250:

Zuko.7132:

Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

this is the problem. people giving up in droves because unbearable loss streak streaks. only reason I am still trying is because I am desperate for the AP. Played 25+ matches today and only won 1.

I’m loling evilly when I read this. Next season needs people to start at different tiers for sure though.

it’s a good idea to make tiers mean something. We just need to avoid punishing players for being bad, without having them drag down veteran players in some 50/50 scenario

I dropped a game yesterday, but aside from that winning games is generally fun.

Won’t know what real matchmaking is like for a couple of weeks. I’m guessing people that end up on the wrong side of the bell curve are having a bad time though.

I like the approach to leagues this time around. Something for next season should be some streamlining at the start – using some metric more involved than how far a player got in season 2.

Further to add; using win ratio in each tier multiplied by some exponential decay for levelling out and progression of player base over time might work…

Although you’d need to collect a lot of data for that lol!

Tontonino.9736:

I am SO happy the vigilant/crusader meta is out of the game!

Honestly this change shows how little thought is being put into this.

I’m done discussing balance here. But frankly there are glaring design issues with the new skills.

Raise the cooldowns on them by 30%. This is what is pushing your game in the wrong direction.

It’s not a bad idea though, something that doesn’t reward spam. It gets to the core of what warriors used to be about pre shout-bow; as much about when you don’t attack as when you do.

Besides the main idea was 100% quickness in zerk stance. Especially now it doesn’t affect stomp/ressing.

Improving gameplay mechanics would have a huge impact on the growth of sPvP… but shortcomings in ongoing development are usually tied to the allocation of resources, which is ultimately driven by revenue.

It’s a vicious circle that affects many businesses, and often the best way of breaking it is to find new ways to generate revenue.

sPvP isn’t a major pull factor to the majority of MMORPG players. So if it’s marketed exclusively at this crowd it’s unlikely to justify its potential commercially. This impacts subsequent investment, and more immediately, its prioritisation with regards to class design.

Swagger.1459:

I haven’t realised any of these things. Maybe I will some day.

StickerHappy.8052:

Phaeton.9582:

StickerHappy.8052:

Phaeton.9582:

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Stopped reading when I read good condi removal for druid. Now please don’t argue about solo q builds.

Do you know how bad the condi removal on glyph is?

Why would you mention that trait to justify bad condi removal?

Because it’s a fact.

Glyph condi removal is the only viable condi removal you can take in a team setting.

EB (RNG and require a live pet) and SotF (requires you to get Survival Skills) are both selfish skills.

Other option than that is Healing Spring which we know is soo awful now since they made it as a trap.

I think you need to account for ‘selfish’ condi removal too dude.

Also you seem to be overlooking celestial avatar mechanics when listing off ‘options’, which is is bizarre.

StickerHappy.8052:

Phaeton.9582:

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Stopped reading when I read good condi removal for druid. Now please don’t argue about solo q builds.

Do you know how bad the condi removal on glyph is?

Why would you mention that trait to justify bad condi removal?

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Both ranger pets have lame mechanics. It’s not a balance issue though.

One piece of feedback from the sPvP community throughout gw2 release has been that people don’t like to see heavy damage output from ranger pets.

So really all we can do is restate the feedback from that good old BM meta period. That got fixed. Let’s do that then.

It would be nice to see actual ranger attacks with risk/reward mechanics (with damage compensating for pet nerf)

Evan Lesh.3295:

Now that the box is fixed for anyone who hasn’t opened the box yet, we can now distribute replacement items for those who have.

Thinking outside the box

Fivedawgs.4267:

Phaeton.9582:

This is such a dumb thread, its a shame people would rather argue semantics than discuss the actual issues surrounding sPvP and its very much unarguable pricing model.

Almost everyone calling for improved accessibility to elite specs own HoT, but want to see GW2 sPvP compete with bigger, more profitable competitive multiplayer games.

Unfortunately people seem to be focusing on comparing sPvP to WoW.

How are you doing that? Why are you doing that?

There is of course only one answer. sPvP is just a minigame to you, you great and wise MMO player.

Esportz 2016? The dream is real.

You are the one who is dancing around the bush HOT is GW2. And GW2 is an MMO not a MOBA due to PVE. Lastly,let me remind you that gw2 is spvp. Wvw and pve together.

Clearly this topic is about sPvP. So the discussions therein should be about sPvP.

Furthermore, this is primarily an issue for sPvP as the early game and late game content aren’t distinct, essentially making this new f2p>b2p model pretty flawed here.

Nobody is arguing that the wider GW2 game isn’t B2P, which means I guess there is a second possible answer to my previous question.

2. Inability to read English and/or assimilate arguments logically.

Now I better peace before my neck develops a nasty, mottled beard.

This is such a dumb thread, its a shame people would rather argue semantics than discuss the actual issues surrounding sPvP and its very much unarguable pricing model.

Almost everyone calling for improved accessibility to elite specs own HoT, but want to see GW2 sPvP compete with bigger, more profitable competitive multiplayer games.

Unfortunately people seem to be focusing on comparing sPvP to WoW.

How are you doing that? Why are you doing that?

There is of course only one answer. sPvP is just a minigame to you, you great and wise MMO player.

Esportz 2016? The dream is real.

Chaith.8256:

Yeah, the ‘no class stacking’ rule will possibly only require 4 unique professions, rather than 5. So Thief is still irrelevant if double Rev is an option.

That would be a shame.

reikken.4961:

Uh, speaking of business models, I don’t think pvp makes Anet/NCS any money.

and as long as that’s true, there will continue to be no balance team

Why do you think we’re discussing options :p

It’s turning something really just there for overall player retention, into a route to market for the wider game.

Sassy.1697:

Masses love their DLC’s and spending 3 times the money over months/years instead of a transparent set value.

Then why not give them what they want?

We’ve bought the game and played it for years. We know it’s worth the money, but this isn’t about us.

This is about convincing your mate to spend $50 just so his engineer can use scrapper traits.

This is about the further complication of competitive sPvP having no effective “free to trial” component. Unless you mean trialling the respawn timer.

bxt.7691:

> Any chance we can get Last Login added to the members list?

Ideally also if they are repping the guild or not, so perhaps three states: Repping, NotRepping and Offline. If that isn’t possible maybe a Last Rep date on top of the last log in?

Bump

Jourdelune.7456:

Phaeton.9582:

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?

Paragon or Overwatch or Gigantic or many others… NEXT GEN MOBA incoming. ANET need to do it before them.

Paragon and Gigantic do look good. Not had a chance on the betas yet though.

Overwatch looks less directly relatable to sPvP, but it’s blizzard so no doubt they’ll make it work.

There seems to be a ton of threads now about if GW2 is P2W, and it’s clearly not.

This game is however Pay to Compete, and there’s a very hefty price just to level the playing field.

The issues discussed above just highlight how such a model is turning away prospective sPvP players every day.

Chaith.8256:

nailed it.

Chapell.1346:

Credit to Shinjiko.1352 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/UI-fluff/first#post5516134 some of the cool UI fluff for Thief.

I think any premium UI or skill effect customisation (like changing the colour of guardian ‘fire’ skills) that doesn’t provide an advantage over their default settings, is a great idea.

There would need to be a disable feature for custom arenas, but aside from that +1!

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Of course it does. And it baffles my mind why Anet hasn’t done this a long time ago.

Now with the game free-to-play we NEED PVP monetarization. For example, do what all the MOBAs do, and rotate 2 free elite specs for free-to-play players on a weekly basis, and enable them to buy and unlock elite specs forever.

Yes this is certainly an option. It also wouldn’t be unreasonable to leave Revenant as a HoT exclusive, as it’s not going to prevent players from competing.

Thanks for the longer countdown on the q pop also – just noticed that!

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Someone has to top. Someone has to be bottom.
Ele were top.
Now they’re not.
Such is life.

and sex

Well, seeing as this thread is still actively being moderated, and I’ve already made a suggestion last year that would fix this current meta, I may as well self bump. I need the hit.

There’s little else to discuss on this forum, other than play agony aunt for people who die to thieves.

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?