Guild Wars 2

Kick them back! Fight fire with fire!

…oh, right. Healer ele… water fields.

They intentionally made it so that racial elites don’t give anyone a noticeable combat leverage to avoid this issue. They’re all for the most part pretty bad. Bear Form is the only one that has its uses.

I’ll keep my answer short because I don’t actually have the exact numbers you’re looking for.

First of all, I disagree with your choice in sigils mostly because of accuracy. For a warrior it’s simply not needed— even if you go force+night you’ll still be above 100% with banner+fury active.

The base crit chance for 65003 warriors (ascended berserker armor + weapons + trinkets) is 61%, so taking into account signet of fury, food nourishment, fury, BoD, and optionally deep strikes, you will be critting basically as long as you have fury, which will be for the majority of the time. Because of this, I feel you’d benefit more from force over accuracy.

As for scholar vs strength… the general rule of thumb is:
1) PUGs = strength
2) Soloing = strength
3) Organised/good teams with reliable might stacking = scholar

Scholar is the best in optimal conditions, but nowadays it’s more niche instead of being the best everywhere like it kind of was before april 15th. Ultimately it depends on what you do the most, but consider the fact that for high level FotM you need infusions to negate agony damage so if you frequently go with randoms in FotM you’ll be better off with strength runes.

By the way, it’s not only a 3% damage increase with scholar… take into account all of that ferocity that you get as well.

dominik.9721:

Are the sigills up to date?
Btw. in arah is it day or night?

It’s day and I’m not sure if you follow me on twitch/youtube but you may have noticed I recently made an Eternity and put night+force on it, and made an ascended GS for undead slaying+force specifically for Arah.

The reason I suggest night is because the vast majority of the dungeons are all night (CM/HotW/Arah are the ones that are day) so you’ll have the damage modifier most of the time.

If you truly wanted an all-purpose GS that’s useful in all circumstances, you could do Force+Strength, or Force+Frailty. Force+Strength is lower DPS for a warrior than Force+Night/Undead Slaying in situations where those sigils are in effect but it will always work, and Force+Frailty would be absolutely fantastic for FotM.

Relshdan.6854:

question to the experts:

i’m not good enough to solo “harder” dungeon/ certain orr champ content (not that you even can anymore due to megaserver) in pure power/zerk meta build.

how does a strength runes hybrid S/S +LB compare to the pure-condi solo builds?
something like tweaking the pure-condi to:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJQQNAscTjMdU5Z3H2dwJaghgyUAcuBChnX9YcGdBA-TRSBwA6Urg2+DeV+15QA0TVF86D0cCASrEEwTAgUAQMGA-e

…it’d do noticeably worse damage by comparison, to answer your question :P

If you want to use a condition build to solo content, use the one that I was arguing with maha above. You can find it on Nike’s youtube channel or the DnT theorycrafting forums which I linked in my first post on page 1. That build is very good if soloing but only on bosses that are heavily armored, where it’s nearly equivalent DPS to that of berserker power builds are.

I have accumulated over 30k shards of zhaitan in all including the several thousand I’ve spent, without a single recipe drop from any path.

maha.7902:

p1 has easy fights and punishing skips
p2 has easy fights and punishing skips
p3 has punishing fights and punishing skips
p4 has easy fights and easy-ish skips

p1 is probably the safest to pick – it’s not like p2 where theres basically three points between belka and abomination where you can just be insta-killed (spiders, deadeye before tunnel, deadeye after tunnel), p1 has a rough skip to entities but you actually have room for error

This is all true and I agree with it, but it definitely needs to be mentioned that P4 will be considerably longer than the first three paths… at least for the average person.

@OP
This advice will apply to all paths: make sure that you’re aware of the fact that in the room before the Giganticus Lupicus encounter, you need to hug the left wall as much as possible to ensure you don’t aggro any trash mobs. I can’t even remember the last time I did any pug Arah path without at least one person dying there due to being clueless and p*ssing off various elite risen. If you do, the last thing you ever want to do is pull it over to your party and have them suffer the consequence of your actions.

If it helps, the traits I always use are:

6 (V IX XI) 5(I X) 0 0 3(VI) and I use >>>THESE<<< to maintain swiftness. It takes some time getting used to using these but I think it’s worth it. For your purpose, it might be better to just use the same traits but swap Arms I to II instead. If you do that you won’t ever need to worry about running out of swiftness during the fight again but you’ll lose out on a bit of precision… and with 65003 you want as much precision as you can get

Bingo.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Forum-FAQ/first

Stacking is not an unintended tactic. There’s nowhere that you can find proof that Arenanet intended you to ONLY fight a mob out in the open. Making use of a mob’s line of sight is a very very very common tactic used on basically every mmorpg ever.

If you choose to fight away from your group and not share boons and not cleave enemy mobs, basically all you are saying is “I don’t want to deal damage and want to have as little success as possible so please keep your boons away from me.”

I average 280-300 ping as well and I find that for phase 3, I don’t have issues off wall unless I run out of swiftness or he’s close to the wall but not quite on it. If he’s close to the wall, then when you try to dodge out of his rapidfire radius you might not have enough room to get out of the way. If you DO fight him off the wall, try to have him far enough off of it so that you have room to work with.

Also something that you should be aware of is how important it is to maintain swiftness. It is absolutely essential for properly soloing him off-wall. If you fail to maintain swiftness then if you try to position yourself out of his rapidfire you’ll probably end up getting bubbled at some point.

Other than that there’s little anyone can suggest for you other than to adapt to your latency problems and dodge accordingly. Also make sure you’re using lifesteal on crit foods— no shame in using those as they’re great.

Updated the guide.

-Added a lot of thorough information about food/nourishment that wasn’t available before, but was clarified thanks to Nike! Check it out.
-Added an entry in the useful consumables section for ‘Rock’ found in the southwest Harathi Hinterlands by escorting a giant named “Fen.” They cost 1s 60c each.

EDIT: Seems there are two different rocks that function the same. This one is cheaper: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rock_

For Belka I suggest shake it off + signet of fury + banner, because most of the time unless you do a splendid job at evasions/positioning yourself, you’ll have to run OOC periodically to regenerate hp. You can have an axe offhand on weapon swap to smack her with #4 and immediately 100b each time you run back in.

Either that or just shake it off + FGJ + banner. Just keep the banner— the precision it gives + the extra ferocity is a lottt :P

Jeremlloyd.6837 posted exactly what I use on my ele whenever I solo, but periodically I’ll change traits depending on if staff is particularly good for an encounter or if I plan to make use of FGS/LH as much as possible (in which case you’d swap out pyromancer’s alacrity for conjurer).

You definitely want to stay in full berserker and to avoid going lower in fire magic as much as possible because in a solo situation you will struggle to deal a sufficient amount of damage unless you make use of FGS. However, for lower dungeons like AC/TA it’s pretty awesome. It’s mostly for ones like Arah that you’ll most likely not want to solo with ele on unless you’re feeling patient. :P

quoted from my DPS guide:

“Offhands:
Mace
-good for application of vulnerability (#4) when in groups, and for tremor (#5) to interrupt trash mobs when LOSing them to you and your teammates.
Warhorn
-very VERY useful in FotM. #5 is not only a blast finisher which is wonderful for might stacking in combo fields, but it helps when thieves are blasting the group for extra stealth, and it provides the party with vigour (extra endurance) AND weakens enemies. Warhorn also provides you and your party members with swiftness AND can cure movement-impairing conditions like immobilize, stun, cripple, chill, etc.
Sword
-wonderful for blocks. You won’t find yourself choosing this very often when in groups but during boss encounters such as for example Legendary Archdiviner in cliffside fractal where everyone is always scattered and kiting him around, or Mossman in swamp fractal, the torment from impale is reasonably helpful as well as the blocks. It has half the cooldown as shield #5 does and will also block all projectiles provided you aren’t within melee distance of the attacker(s). Example of me using it in combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJZ4Xd4KcFM
Shield
-not as practical to use as sword, but it DOES have its uses during solos. For example it’s not a bad offhand to use on swap for soloing Alphard in Arah P2, or for skipping trash / keeping OOC as you run past orrian turrets during Arah P1.”

jokke.6239:

Did you stop playing pvp or something?
Cause that is likely the answer to why you are not getting spammed anymore.
It’s absolutely horrible in pvp still.

If it being a casual-friendly mimicry of Runescape’s duel arena without the staking wasn’t enough to keep me away, this sure is.

I don’t kick in AC either unless they spawn the oozes in P1 before the scepter pieces and give some smartmouth response after I question them about it. Being new to AC is fine, as long as they say so. Normally if something dreadful happens I’d prefer to just leave and let them have fun with their nonsense. :P

alamore.1974:

What could.I do.to.improve this build??

are you sure you want honest answers

Slither if you were on your ele, did you bother to stack might and FGS rush him… ? Just wondering. I’m guessing not and that the people you had with you wouldn’t have had a clue about conj weapons based off of your descriptions. :S

This is a last resort spot that I sometimes go to but I use it more so whenever I’m using FGS in groups due to the fact that it makes it significantly easier to deal with clones. If you aren’t FGSing I find it more challenging to solo with for warrior because you can’t really LOS her easily like you can on the barricades. You have to pretty much tank her here, which stinks.

But, this is definitely a good spot to fall back to when the barricades are gone. :P

Oooh you got your sub-26!

After watching it looks like the part that I start to lose time on is definitely alphard. Despite the lucky daggerstorm where you could attack her while she was doing it, you do it very fast. I normally will have to kill her in the middle with no barriers left, so it looks like I need to do what you do and stack might with WWA before 100bing instead of trying to use it as an evasion :P

Also I wasn’t using embers on belka, so I normally have to run ooc a second time as well

Congrats, probably won’t be beaten. ^^

I feel inspired to try to get a high hit with one now. :P

I don’t think it’s a good idea to run 4/6/0/4/0 in pugs. In organised teams sure, but in pugs you are hindering your own potential by quite a bit so something important to take into consideration is whether or not your teammates are all competent or if they have no idea what they’re doing. Sometimes it’s more effective to rely on yourself.

However, it’s pretty important that you take FGJ. Fury + might for the group is always welcomed. In this circumstance SIO is your swappable utility but pay attention to whenever you’re doing something like say the dredge caravan in SE p3 which cannot be critically hit. In circumstances like that, you can swap out your BOD for signet of might or something (don’t use BOS for that in particular because of the long cooldown).

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

it varies from mob to mob, but it generally is either how much dps you’re doing or how much toughness you have (or occasionally how close you are) will determine who aggros first

Pretty sure it’s not toughness that matters, but your armor bonus.

Tequatl is killed several times day. It’s kind of obnoxious that so many people demand it to be nerfed into even more AFKable than it already is. This is already a really casual-friendly game as it is, it’s not fair for you to request it to be nerfed because you haven’t bothered to seek an organized group to fight it yet. Please don’t contribute to the many other QQ threads that refuse to allow GW2 to have content that demands more user input than pressing 1 button.

Actually more than just Simin in P4 get stuck easily. Balthazar and Lyssa do too. It’s sad -.-

Highest I’ve hit was a 25k killshot on Vahid, Corrupted Priest of Melandru in Arah P4. I had both banners + sigil of undead slaying + sigil of force + undead slaying potion and plate of truffle steak nourishment and no bloodlust stacks. Friend was using banners for me so I was able to take OMM + FGJ + signet of fury.

It’s quite a large loss in DPS, but you can do as you please. I suggest getting used to full berserker because at the moment you are hindering your own potential. If it helps you learn mechanics, good… but seek a different rune choice than Pack. I’d say the better alternatives would be Scholar or or Hoelbrak. Scholar is cheaper than Hoelbrak and they’re better anyways, so go for those.

I still feel like I don’t really understand this boss’s mechanics well enough. I’ve solod him twice and didn’t get cced at all, just crippled a lot. I don’t recall ever being cced from him aside from when bumping into the center inadvertently.

guanlong, have you ever had Randall or Illyra teleport to you right when you reach the end of 2nd orbs and kitten up your interact option?

So evil.

It’s not just the “weekend warriors” that suck, it’s the people that don’t communicate that do. I’m sick of all the people that are completely unresponsive when spoken to and aren’t willing to cooperate at all, so I can’t pug very often because that’s the bulk of what I always get whenever I do.

In FotM specifically it gets really irritating when you have more than say, 2 warriors. Ugh… especially because you know one of them’s gonna slot banner of defense and use rifle. Happens way too often to me

Thanks, had no idea there was only one corner there with a turret nearby. You have fun traiting in defense for that specific turret xD

I’m sure it’s really practical and useful instead of just staying in a DPS trait point allocation to clear it, cause y’know… game’s too hard.

I think in around 100 or so Arah P1 solos that I’ve done I’ve maybe had to use 4 crystals less than 10 times. Majority of the time I’ll use 1-2. Sure, if you fear this scenario happening this much then go for it. I’m really not surprised this is the best encounter you can think of for it to be “legitimately useful” for lol. Once again, I’ll try it next time I do an Arah P1 solo and see how useful it truly is!

I already explained that I know the build produces close to the same damage output, but that it’s still not as good. As long as it’s worse, I don’t care. I would stop playing warrior too if it meant berserker/direct damage was suddenly worse and I had to use cond in order to be competitive. You aren’t paying attention to what I’m actually saying— I still wouldn’t use it even if the two were reversed and that condition builds were slightly better. I would require them to be significantly better to justify using my least favorite mainhand weapon in combat and a ranged weapon over my favorite one.

Erm sorry but I think I’d rather not clear the orrian turrets before Lupi except the one near the far wall by the aboms. Other ones are unnecessary unless you get absolutely dreadful RNG with the elite mobs hugging the wall :P

Jotun sure, albeit completely unnecessary and not easier at all. I thought the point of this was to show how it’s useful to trait in defense in some circumstances. I have no idea if this would be faster to do than just standing still with 1-3 reflect crystals, hitting 100-120k each reflect, but it’s certainly not easier to do, and unless it’s indisputably faster to do then I can’t see how that’s worthy of deeming as “useful.” I will try it to compare the time when I next do an Arah P1 solo.

I think I also need to post another video of me bursting down elite risen again maybe :P

maha.7902:

OOC once with no ember? i’d want to see that.

So would I. I’m assuming he meant once after resetting at the start so that she returns to her original spawn point but I don’t know. Will have to wait until he uploads because he doesn’t want to unless he gets a sub-26.

maha.7902:

Your reason for not wanting to try it is completely asinine. You’re not even using the longbow at range, you’re using it point blank, and you’d know that if you literally spent two seconds playing with it. Condition lacks whirlwind attack as well, so I’d hardly call it easier.

How is it asinine to not want to use a ranged weapon at point blank? xD

And Berserker builds don’t ALWAYS involve a sword offhand when soloing, so we don’t always use sword offhand for blocks. By the way, something else to note is that with a condition build you’re limited with weapon variety and should you need to use something like warhorn in an encounter without a massive loss of DPS (wraithlord crusher+hunter comes to mind), you aren’t able to. With a direct damage build you can have any weapon swap you want.

Does that necessarily make it easier? Sometimes, sure. I think the more appropriate word choice for a condition build in this sense is limited, or perhaps less versatile. When it comes to an encounter that neither build does need to do anything other than DPS, such as berserker abomination, I’m certain that the average person would find it easier to have more toughness, a blind, a block, and two dodges than 1 whirlwind while keeping him against the wall with 2 dodges… not to mention, being rooted in place.

maha.7902:

Did you just compare the loss of a 10% modifier to basically getting burning, torment and 20+ bleed stacks removed? u srs m8? The whole challenge of using condition is maintaining both endurance and skill rotation at the same time, without a rotation you can’t maximise your damage, but trying to maintain rotation for me (since I haven’t got myself an energy sword yet) means that if I go longbow with full endurance and have to double dodge, I literally have nothing left if Lupicus decides to do something else.

Lmfao, so you’re talking about challenge with speedkilling Lupi in comparison to direct damage berserker builds? If that’s the case, then you’re right it is more challenging to compete with berserker on Lupi… because it’s worse for Lupi. Your first post was specifically stating that the challenge is because he purges conditions, implying that it either doesn’t matter or isn’t worth acknowledging for a berserker build but it does for a condition build. If you weren’t so belligerent and blind with contempt, maybe you’d be capable of inferring that I’m well aware of it being more of a problem for a condition warrior than it is for a berserker?

Reading comprehension must be the endgame of GW2.

maha.7902:

This reminds me a little of when you started crying at someone because they suggested slotting in missile deflection at certain times – it’s legitimately useful at certain points but you flooded the whole thread with tears.

Please be my guest to share with me the useful situations for warriors to trait in defense for PvE then.

Enlighten us all.

Hey, there is a very good condition build that is capable of nearly the same damage output as the best berserker build in a solo setting. In group play it’s way way worse than direct damage, but if soloing it’s pretty close and depending on how much kiting the encounter involves, you may even be able to do faster with the condition build than the berserker. However if you are able to have a proper rotation with GS on the boss, berserker is still the best DPS.

After checking my most recent highlight, I think I killed her in about 2:39. I considered this “decent” as in acceptable to not ragequit and restart. http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/4444295

I believe my fastest one was over 20 seconds faster if I’m not mistaken. Goku has been prodding me to try to compete with him in Arah P2 full funs, and he’s told me that he’s normally able to DPS her out with only having to run ooc once… so clearly it can be done significantly faster. Just saying.

You also are getting defensive for no reason as I made it clear that my reasons for not wanting to try it are because I hate mainhand sword and try to avoid using ranged weapons the majority of the time. I specifically said that the build is a nice alternative. For the most part, it is probably going to be easier for the average person to play with considering…

maha.7902:

the extra toughness enables you to take more of a beating before having to withdraw a bit to regenerate.

along with the fact that it’s well known condition damage ticks even when you aren’t actually attacking the mobs. If a direct damage build needs to kite and spends the majority of the encounter moving around or breaking their 100b chains early to evade, they’ll likely do less damage than a condition build would. This is one of the things that people try to use to make the build more appealing to others to try out, I wasn’t aware that this was debatable? Lol.

Lupicus phase 3 purges conditions no matter what kind of build you’re using. Direct damage builds lose out on attack of opportunity and any vuln/torment stacks if they fail to evade, which is a pretty significant DPS loss. It may not be nearly as detrimental for them as it is for a condition build but the objective is still the same— to avoid letting him hit you as much as possible to get the fastest possible kill. There is no extra challenge added to the encounter unless you want to point out the fact that the longer the encounter is, the more opportunity there is to make a mistake. It’s simply a different build that performs well, but isn’t the absolute best to use in all circumstances.

So harp on me all you want for not wanting to use it, but I have no reason to. I don’t need it and don’t want it. ^^

Laar.5476:

Lucas.9157:

I would. Totally. I die even when I do mentally. hahaha

Sometimes we go through the forums and look for those special posts, like these to read out loud to each other, terrible punctuation and all; there are some really golden posts out there. It gets pretty funny, especially if drinks are involved.

Used to do this with my friends SO much back in the days when I played Runescape. It was a breeding ground for behavior represented by this llama so there was plenty of awesome things to read in hurrdurr voices. ^.^

epborden.7492:

In WvW I would really argue against going S/S. The added damage from torment is nice but normally people will try to cleanse quickly enough so that it negates torment. It is better to use a shield for the added block as you still need to protect yourself. I find myself needing to use my shield for a stun much more often than torment. Better to stick with bleeds, fire, and poison from doom sigil on swap.

…

Sword has a block with half the cooldown of shield’s.

There there OP, it’ll be alright. http://i.imgur.com/8EeRp4r.jpg

Nope, I don’t use condition builds nor do I plan to.

I admit now that I didn’t put enough thought into this statement: “it doesn’t outplay direct damage in the majority of situations” so I’ll rephrase it to “it doesn’t outplay direct damage in the majority of situations in Arah” specifically. There are actually a lot of encounters that the condition build would be a lot easier to play with in, Ginva the kitten from Hotw P1 being a pretty good example.

The calculated theoretical DPS that’s posted on your guild’s forums show them to be roughly 7k each correct? It’s very close, but it’s still slightly lower if I remember correctly from a conversation in whisper with Nike… could be wrong, but I think I recall him stating that the theoretical solo DPS with condition build is around 6,900 whereas with the berserker GS 66002 one it’s around 7,100 or so. Will need to ask him to verify that but I’m not keen on buying aristocracy runes just to test out something I don’t plan to ever use :P

There are situations in which it’d probably be a lot easier to play with than the standard direct damage build, but generally speaking unless it’s an encounter that’s similar to… this... I just don’t really see the point.

I not only despise being forced to range, but despise sword mainhand for any purpose other than savage leap mobility. Even if it’s almost as good for damage output, it would have to be not only better, but significantly better to justify using it…

For situations like the video I posted above, it’d be pretty ideal. For something like Lupicus or any Arah solo I certainly wouldn’t suggest it… especially for Lupi considering how awful condi builds are for phase 3 unless they perform flawlessly.

Like I mentioned above it’s a nice alternative especially for those who dislike the GS and struggle with their rotations on it, but I have yet to see anyone post a video of any encounter using the build that’s faster than I could do it with direct damage, so… :|

Simple, transmutation charges! :P

There’s nothing worse than Varra. However, Randall is pure evil as well.

Aviston Darkstar.1278:

Which trait skills do you use?

This will help:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAR3cjMdU5ZfH2ewJaAgAx8hALuGKju2A-ThSBAB0s/Alq/YmSwrU+hnuBU0wswBUQjDCAAXog8eCAkCYUdVA-e

Aviston Darkstar.1278:

Also, I’m not sure where I might have screwed up, but I get pretty beat up by anything more than a standard enemy. Bosses/Champions down me in a hit or two. I know this build compared to my previous build lost me some toughness and vitality, but wow… I really get smacked around. Any ideas?

The idea is for you to avoid letting the mobs damage you most of the time. Instead of standing there and allowing them to hit you, make use of your dodge rolls, whirlwind evasion, or as Fenrir.3609 posted above me your blocks from either mace #2 or sword #5 or shield #5 (most of the time you’ll want to use sword’s block over the others).

It’s a lot more rewarding to learn how to play like this in the end, but will take practice!

As for condition builds, the one Nike posted is a fine build for soloing but it’s still not the best. It’s as he said, competitive and easy to play, but still doesn’t outplay direct damage in the majority of situations. Either way, a solid alternative.

All of my yes.

/15char

Lilith’s posts are awesome lmao

She ruins everything!

Hey everyone I updated the guide in a few places:
-added links to the youtube channels of the mentioned individuals at the start of first post
-tweaked some of the things that I mentioned/re-worded a few things on all posts
-added an example of when I use ‘Fear Me’ in Arah P1
-clarified some of the changes made to stacking sigils and what is now needed if one wishes to maintain stacks in general gameplay
-added ‘Medical Pack’ to the list of useful consumables that I occasionally use
-added a video of me demonstrating use of sword offhand in solo combat

Post here if you have any questions!

I wish I was in charge of the direction of the game :<

Lindbur.2537:

Lucas.9157:

Purple Miku.7032:

Nah don’t go back to it now, it’s terrible :P

It was once amazing, but fell victim to being dragged in an awful direction and right now they’re trying to salvage it.

It was terrible when I played too (5 years ago), but the nostalgia is too stronk

I feel like the new combat system has much more depth to it, but I think things may be dying too fast there, especially with lv 90 weapons. It’s insane.

But then again no one likes beating on 200+ of the same old meatsacks that take so long to kill. :p

I see what you mean.

The problem is that the entire game was designed for the former primitive click-and-wait combat system, but when they rolled out EoC they didn’t change everything accordingly. When they released it, everything was in chaos and it was overwhelming how many things didn’t work, how many mobs could get 1-hit and such. An implementation like that… the game was not prepared for. Action bar combat definitely has more depth, but I don’t think that there would have been a practical way for it to make its way into RS.

These sort of things happen all the time to me.

Ken DeBoer.9268:

I am so torn on which dungeon NPC I hate most, Magg or Hodgins. In most cases, Magg is awful.

You mean you prefer Varra Skylark over the two of them!?

Lucas.9157:

Purple Miku.7032:

Nah don’t go back to it now, it’s terrible :P

It was once amazing, but fell victim to being dragged in an awful direction and right now they’re trying to salvage it.

It was terrible when I played too (5 years ago), but the nostalgia is too stronk

November of 2012 was the last straw for the live game. EoC was dreadful. However, my nostalgia was totally killed off after trying old school RS and finding out how pathetic the community overall was. Goldfarming (some people on here might not understand what this really means— it’s having a network of suicide accounts botting to farm gold and sell on various websites) was an accepted norm, and if you didn’t bot your stats you were considered an outcast. It was terrible.