Guild Wars 2

Xenn.3809:

Raf.1078:

disclaimer: lots – just scroll above

@Raf: For the other part to this particular argument please refer to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Less-Siege-Not-More/2172193

Raf.1078:

Did you even read Soggy frog’s intro?

Yes. Link above I let you know I did

Raf.1078:

Usually, the first paragraph of a literary piece stakes out the claim of the entire piece
(…)
Basically, what Soggy has said here is that this is what he gets out of WvW…and then he goes on to assume that everyone else shares his views.

Both partly true, and both assumptions

Raf.1078:

If ever there was a time for the silent majority to speak up. Its now. Before these pinheads get ANet to totally mess up WvW.

We can agree there, but your opinion is as good as mine or any other – just trying to debate, not attack or ‘destroy’ as been wrongly assumed.

You may not agree with his experience of the game, which is entirely fine; but you avoiding discussing the idea behind the initial post, I won’t copy/paste what he has written, since you wanted to prove you read the 1st paragraphs, I trust you finish reading the post.

The part I’m trying to get you engaged, and with this threat has tried to discuss to some degree is the section that starts with:

Focus on map design

I do not wish to continue this conversation with you for as long as I’m trying to talk about dogs and you reply me talking about cats. I will gladly rekindle conversation if we can keep on the topic of discussion.

You cherry picked a single item out of his entire post as the focus of what he’s saying. Thats not what I read as the main point of his post. Map design? Really? Thats all you took from that wall of text?

Well..okay…I’ll refrain from commenting on map design as I think it has little to do with Soggy’s main points.

subcrazy.1098:

Raf.1078:

I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.

I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.

Why are you tuning this into a PAXA thing? The post was cause maybe the AOE cap will be lifted or something else to help the small groups or lower pop servers to compete due to what ANET posted. We have a couple PAXA guys in here saying how we feel about it and you getting bum hurt.

I’m not bum hurt in the least. But couple of Paxa guys in this thread act like they think that thier interpretation of the game is the only one that matters. I disagree with them. And I’ll tell them what I think.

I do like to zerg, except when I’m small grouping with the guild. But I don’t try make make it seem like my views speak for the entire server.

I’ve seen these forum tactics before. People just need to speak up so ANet doesn’t get the idea that your views are the views of everyone involved in WvW. We all have opinions on this game. But none are less valid than anyone else’s.

And creating a long forum thread doesn’t validate those views over anyone else’s either.

The system is self regulating in any case. No matter how you acquired your dorito…if you are good commander? Players will flock to you in droves.

If you are a bad commander, your groups will dwindle away to nothing.

I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.

I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.

osif.8673:

Raf.1078:

Oh I see now…you want to make it mandatory that everyone else plays in small groups just like you.

You’re quite dense, let me sum it up in a simple form of what Jscull is saying. Remove the AoE cap – add skill to WvW. Organized zergs will be fine as they’ll know how to deal with it, mindless zergs will suffer and be forced to get better at playing the game. Small strike teams will not be put at a disadvantage based on game mechanics, just based on the sheer numbers. As it is right now, it’s both numbers and game mechanics.

Irony is completely lost on you PAXA guys, isn’t it?

That said…its obvious what you guys are trying to do. Get ANet to game the system so that it lets your small groups compete against groups it really shouldn’t be able to fight effectively.

Jscull.2514:

Raf.1078:

It is NOT realistic to think that a 5 man can or should allowed to achieve parity or compete with a 60 man zerg. Each group “plays” a different strategy in game. Both groups should have different goals.

If the 2 happen to run across each other, the game shouldn’t give the advantage to the smaller group. The smaller group should just back off and continue with whatever business they were about before they ran across the army. Not be accorded some sort of in game buff due to the size of their group…you chose to run the small group.

Im not talking 60 guys being taken down by 5….Im talkin LESS 60 MANS RUNNING AROUND and more groups want to compete via the group size or under 15. WHILE removing aoe cap.

Oh I see now…you want to make it mandatory that everyone else plays in small groups just like you.

GvG at the expense of what? That is the issue. GvG is already in practice on many servers for those guilds that care to coordinate.

What are you guys suggesting ANet do then?

It is NOT realistic to think that a 5 man can or should allowed to achieve parity or compete with a 60 man zerg. Each group “plays” a different strategy in game. Both groups should have different goals.

If the 2 happen to run across each other, the game shouldn’t give the advantage to the smaller group. The smaller group should just back off (or fight if they want to…but on even terms cause they chose to fight) and continue with whatever business they were about before they ran across the army. Not be accorded some sort of in game buff due to the size of their group…you chose to run the small group.

Xenn.3809:

Raf.1078:

Who are you…

• Best way to start a debate

Raf.1078:

Who are you or even the OP to suggest the relying heavily on siege is any less tactical than mano y’ mano in open field.? Its the equivalent of saying don’t use the machine gun or mortar and lets go at each other with bayonets only?

Small group play sans siege is simply a choice on your part. Its not or required (not yet anyway) and it shouldn’t be forced down the throats of those who shoose to play that way.

Sorry my zergs speed building of ac’s is messin with your small group’s efficiencies…perhaps you should hit another map instead of forcing everyone to play your way?

Again, will repeat, as the post where you quote me, read and focus on ideas than don’t involve siege ONLY. Is not about getting rid of siege.

SoggyFrog.4170:

Focus on map design

Did you even read Soggy frog’s intro? Here, I’ll post it for you….read the first paragraph. Usually, the first paragraph of a literary piece stakes out the claim of the entire piece, then uses the following material to bolster those points.

Soggy starts out with:

“…I’ll begin by stating where the objection comes from, then offer some solutions.

Organized groups are not especially interested in using siege in combat (one of Gandara’s most prominent guilds, XxX, hates using any siege altogether), and the most fun you get out of WvW will not be from how you place siege. It’s much more exciting to wipe a large group with coordination, tactics and patience than it is to wipe it with large amounts of siege.

What’s really thrilling about the PvP in WvW is being able to use all your profession skills, coordinate your combo fields and area skills (e.g. warding, feedback), and outmanoeuvre your opponent as a group. You don’t get this by placing an arrow cart or ballista and cycling skills 1-4 while standing in one spot.

Making siege more effective wonn’t give organized groups any particular advantage over zergs either. While the former can manage their supply better, the latter will simply have more of it, and all a zerg needs is one person to drop blueprints so that the organized group has no advantage in siege….."

Basically, what Soggy has said here is that this is what he gets out of WvW…and then he goes on to assume that everyone else shares his views.

My point on his entire treatise that everyone “does not” share his views. I remained fairly silent during the first forum lead charge for more “End Game” material. And look what we ended up with…gear progression via fractals.

If ever there was a time for the silent majority to speak up. Its now. Before these pinheads get ANet to totally mess up WvW.

sephiroth.4217:

A small guild group can do more damage than a commanders zerg…

But a side note: Commanders are only trying to help out their server, they could have spent the 100g selfishly on themselves instead of trying to help other people.

Try building rams or golems to take a keep or tower with a small group? “Oops…stay here and hit the door while we run run back for supply”.

Its works if no one is on sentry duty. But only then.

Zergs have their uses. They are their own supply camp…can spot build siege, ram the doors down..spot build on inner…and take the keep. Sentries or no.

OP, until you get your own dorito and try commanding, you have no idea of what you are talking about. History channel?….bah….you are comparing soldiers to citizen militia with attitudes.

Pincer movements…righhhttt. Sometimes its like trying herd cats. Especially with peeps not on voice..or with agendas of their own. Constant PM’s from would be armchair generals etc…

Guild groups on voice with shared goals is really the only way to ge the kind of coordination you are talking about.

Xenn.3809:

Mif.3471:

How about instead of asking for WvW to be destroyed so you can GvG, ask for a seperate GvG mode?
Some of us actually like playing WvW as it was intended….

Raf.1078:

Ditto….except I’d like to see even more siege options.

I don’t get these guys that seem to want ANet to turn WvW into open field pvp for everyone. There is plenty of room in the all the maps for you guys to indulge without making it mandatory for the rest of us.

And I don’t get why people don’t want to read properly and listen to suggestions so we all can agree contribute on some terms.

OP is not trying to ‘destroy’ WvW and turn it into a GvG – please read OP, full post – 1st part may be putting his experience with siege, but second part is nothing to do with siege.

It’s about adding more depth, with different map design amongst other ideas, not changing the ruleset, not changing the concept, not taking existent siege away or only allow one type of person in WvW – it’s meant to suggest improvements to current system that is still inclusive to all players that not ONLY relies on ‘Moar siege’ like latest Anet post seems to suggest.

Who are you or even the OP to suggest the relying heavily on siege is any less tactical than mano y’ mano in open field.? Its the equivalent of saying don’t use the machine gun or mortar and lets go at each other with bayonets only?

Small group play sans siege is simply a choice on your part. Its not or required (not yet anyway) and it shouldn’t be forced down the throats of those who shoose to play that way.

Sorry my zergs speed building of ac’s is messin with your small group’s efficiencies…perhaps you should hit another map instead of forcing everyone to play your way?

Jscull.2514:

elinos.7493:

You really want to know why? Because you are sitting in vent and they aren’t. That about sums up 99% of your “superiority”.

I don’t disagree. It’s embarrassing they are not. To quote a dude from before "if 3 staff eles choke point a 30 man Zerg and kill them all…. It should be allowed. The morons in that 30 shouldn’t hve stood in the red circles. ". Hands down should be allowed. If youre dumb enough not to play in vent with groups that are focused on killing around, and then stand in circles or “clump up” and Aoe mows you down….learn those strategies don’t work. Shouldn’t be babied like Anet has created. Comfort zone lol.

Maybe…just maybe if we all foresake our jobs and family and glue our backsides to a chair and computer screen? Live on twinkies and soda as we game our pitiful lil lves away…we can all become as uber leet as Jscull.

Oh, be still my beating heart…

Mif.3471:

How about instead of asking for WvW to be destroyed so you can GvG, ask for a seperate GvG mode?

Some of us actually like playing WvW as it was intended….

Ditto….except I’d like to see even more siege options.

I don’t get these guys that seem to want ANet to turn WvW into open field pvp for everyone. There is plenty of room in the all the maps for you guys to indulge without making it mandatory for the rest of us.

Prior to the new match-ups these forums were filled with peeps crying for….. change….any kind of change.

Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

I think its kitten hilarious.

Jscull.2514:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

Yeah…it will be really nice to play with adults again.

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I do miss the Cursed Shore and Blood Tide Coast (Tequatl) farming events. Sure, we were there to run the close events over and over for loot. But it was also hugely social events that brought tons of players out of the maps to talk, group and play together.

I can’t really see the need to nerf (and nerf they did…4 champion kraits in BTC???) those linked events? Look at the result..CS and BTC are all but deserted.

I don’t think there is an ANet fix for this. I think the WvW’ers of any given server need to get out and mingle with the PvE populace more.

Run a large guild group working on map completion or harvesting through Cursed Shore. People like to see guilds that are still active and actually play together. Talk in “say” to people around you…be friendly and bring up wvw. Answer questions.

We’ve picked up 3 new members last weekend doing this. 2 are now interested in wvw, the other not so much, but thats okay too.

Well, ANet isn’t going to elminate zergs. To do so would change the entire nature of the this portion of the game to suit the few that want to turn it into a pvp game.

Some people play their class very well. Some are not as accomplished. Numbers in a group evens that out. A zerg, if you will.

What I see here is a bunch of leets trying to get ANet to change the game in thier favor so they can roll any poor newb or lesser skilled individual that happens to step into WvW. If ANet actually did what some of you are asking…we could just change the name of the game to TERA2.

I don’t mind paying for things I want or think I need. I’m not paying a sub any longer, so 15-20 bucks a month for shinies is not a big deal.

Those of us with full time jobs and a family have a lot less game time. On the other hand…it usually means we have more expendable coin. It all equals out in the end.

I have no problem with zergs. WvW is as much an excercise of strategic supply as it is combat. Large zergs have more material on hand to speed build siege. Plus I like fighting with 20-30 friends. Its just a good time in voice with everyone bs’ing and laughing.

The main issue in these forums are those who want to take a game based on the taking and holding of property and turn it into their own lil private pvp fields & matches.

Thankfully, the game is large enough to accomodate both playstyles.

I had the same problem. I just made and started leveling one of each. 5, nearly 6 level 80’s right now..and a warrior and mesmer at 40 something (my two least favorite classes)

Maybe cause so many are guesting on a populated server? Just because you rolled on a given server doesn’t mean you have to pve there if its deserted.

I play both in wvw. But I’d say that for running with and contributing to a group of any size over 4….Staff Elementalist by a longshot.

Sabull.5670:

It’s wierd because there seems to be big disparity between what people express to want in forums and what happens ingame.
9/10 posts&comments support openfield, hate on ACs, hate the blob, hates the lag.
But the opposite is shown ingame. People saying one, doing other.
Or it’s just a vocal minority.

The forums have never spoken for the silent majority. In my entire guild, only I bother to post here. Most could simply care less about the opinions or goings on in gamer forums.

Its that way on every game. Only way to truly get an idea of of what the general populace actually thinks is to run in game polls.

But if they did that?…then very little suggested here would ever get started…cause as vocal as we are…we’re still the minority

We want change, we want change….ummm…no…wait!…no change, no change!!

All of this is eerily familiar….

According to Millenium, GOM doesn’t exist. <<key Twilight Zone music >>

Talk about ID theft.

DR and DB appear to have cloned themselves also.

Honestly, the rewards before the last update were okay with me. The new chests are just icing on the cake. I make most of my coin selling mats. Spend most of it wvw. Repair bills, imo, are as negligible as waypoint costs in PvE.

ANet just needs to do what they think best. Cause no matter what they or don’t do…someone on these forums will find fault with it.

Go visit another server for PvE? You aren’t locked into your server any longer.

Sovta.4719:

Nick.6972:

Game that failed to deliver what I expected and what developers promised.

Maybe it didn’t, they are working really hard for it…………in Wildstar.

Wildstar…man I don’t get the excitement for that game. Just the ultra cartoonish artwork is enough to keep me from ever trying it. Looks like something outa Sesame Street.

Siegecraft is WvW. The whole game was designed around the taking & holding of property and the maintenance of supply. Siege engines are the tools of the trade. Sure, you can pvp in the meantime for grins. But siegecraft is what wins the game.

cesmode.4257:

Raf.1078:

cesmode.4257:

RAF! Whats up?

??

Still hangin, Ces…on GoM now….you?

Haha, surprised you responded. I dont know you…just recognize the name on the forums I suppose. I just wanted to see what you would do, I thought it was funny.

Dragonbranding it up.

Naw…you were here early on in GW2. We had a couple of conversations on the boards. Thought you left the game though.

It makes me wish my former game had the same animation and artwork.

I played in an EQ2 Guild called Permadeath. Bunch of us got together for the challenge of it. Lasted about 6 months. But eventually, it got to be too much and most everyone drifted away.

It does change how you play though. Groups are far more cautious. Every move is planned. There were always at least 2 healers. Sometimes 3 paired with high dps classes.

Most of us kept concurrent toons running / leveling so we wouldn’t get left behind by the groups.

You still died though. Mostly by accident. And its pretty kitten hard to delete a high level toon, lol.

Never happen. Not enough of a customer base to pay for that kind of frustration. Best you can do is play permadeath on any game and be honest with yourself.

cesmode.4257:

RAF! Whats up?

??

Still hangin, Ces…on GoM now….you?

Casual? As in older players with limited time due to job, family etc…, but spare coin to spend? This game fits that demographic (and I count myself there) excellently. That alone will keep this game going for a long time. I still have fun with this game, but I don’t live every waking hour here.

The younger players will eventually move on the next “greatest” game ever…an on and on etc..

PROFESSIONS: LEVEL 40-50
• Warrior / lvl 46

PROFESSIONS: LEVEL 71-80
• Elementalist / lvl 80
• Engineer / lvl 80
• Necromancer / lvl 80
• Ranger / lvl 80
• Guardian / lvl 80
• Thief / lvl 73

(Mesmer & 2nd Guardian under lvl 40)

Chests are cool. Lil extra loot to sell. But their lack was never an issue. Played and enjoyed wvw just fine without em.

Spets the MilkBandit.9031:

Lol GoM encountered resistance in EB (still we were outnumbered) and they went to BL to PVD our paper keeps (srly guys upgrade!), i hope you enjoyed my garrison surprise, you failures.

86,000 points behind GoM and still talkin smack.

I think its the nature of gaming these days. There is a certain market that literally devours content. They jump from game to game gobbling content and screaming for more and more on the respective forums.

On the other hand there people that spend years in a game….those 2 extremes balanced by those somewhere in the middle.

I’m not seeing this vast exit from the game. But most of my friends are the type to hang for several years in a game. Exiting temporarily for a bit to beta a new game or try one out, then coming back to the main game.

For me, GW2 is now the meter that I hold all new games up to. If they aren’t as good, I’ll come back here….as in the case of Neverwinter.

In WvW…I prefer my Guardian (s). I have 2…a lvl 29 & a lvl 80. I play my Mesmer the least of all the classes.

I agree. I just sign on and go where the game takes me. Sometimes its wvw with a level 15 alt or just roaming pve harvesting as I go and knocking out a heart or 2. Its just a game.

Sometimes when reading the forums while at the office, I just have to sit back and wonder at the mindsets that can get so overworked at a video game.

Absolutely nothing ANet does or could do would affect my enjoyment of this game. Nerf?…well, lets just figure out how to get around it or make it work…no sweat. Even the lag issue right now, while annoying..isn’t gonna make me quit. They’ll get it fixed eventually.

Maybe its an age thing. But to me, its just game that I play in my free time from the real world.

Kon.9106:

I’m defiantly a Explorer and this game actually makes exploring worth it

I like this aspect too. But the thing that gets me is the lack of a treasure chest or 3 for those of us that bother to explore multitude of hidden nooks and crannies of this world. There is so much detailed…and unused artwork in this world that few people ever see…just seems like there ought to be a few shinies for explorer types.

Not really sure where I fit…but I still enjoy my time in this game.

Altaholic explorer / WvW’er….just as happy leveling, deleting, re-rolling various alts. Only manage a hour or so of playtime per day during the week…if that. Sometimes don’t make it in at all. Play a lot on weekends, however….and then mostly WvW. Master Crafter to keep all my alts geared. Harvest everything.

I don’t bother with dailies or monthlies though its nice when they pop up just cause I’m messin around doing something. Have never completed any of the PvE events for that matter. Don’t care about dungeons, fractals, legendaries or map completion.

Nice xp…and at 400…its nice to be able to craft exotics for all your alts for a quarter of what it costs on the TP. That is, if you harvest while leveling.

FenGuild.1097:

Track.5029:

I got a human atm, but i might want to reroll a norn or charr..

All my classes are human except my mesmer, its an asura, which i do also regret (wanted it to be a human)

But yeah, now im thinking about making another warrior, either charr or norn, but what do you guys think? What would you choose?

I don’t understand….you already have a thread about this on
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Which-race-did-you-go-for

and you’re still undecided? People already gave their opinions and you can search on the internet for more sources about this topic. I’m not trying to be rude to you or anything, but I am just confuse why make another thread about it when you already made one 3 days ago while receiving decent feedback. It wasn’t good enough?

It was helpful for me though and I went with charr except it’s a guardian.

He’s still deciding…so what? And you are being rude.

I’ve never been able to stick with a Charr toon. Can’t get used to being a quadruped. Makes jumping a real pain. Jumping thing can be the same for a big Norn too though.

Love the Norns…hate playing Charrs. But thats just me.