Guild Wars 2

Black Teagan.9215:

Evilek.5690:

Black Teagan.9215:

Your ideas sounds good but I would add follow things to you list:

Increase Revelation Debuff to 5 Sec; Increase Base sthealth time to 5 Sec, give the thief the baseHP from the engi/ranger/mesmer;
increase base dmg on single target weapon by 75%-100% ; reduce backstab to +50% instead +100%
Reduce Steal-CD on 30 sec

Not sure about this: Reduce Ini-Regeneration Time to 1,35 -1,5 sec

Revelation Debuff 5 sec and reduce Backstab dmg 50% ?? You must kidding.

And int regen loool

The backstab must be reduce, if they increase of the base damage(which is stronger than +100% BS-Dmg).

To Increase the duration of the Revelation Debuff is necessary, to let it be more a tactic element than a spam mechanik and the increase of the stealth were perfect to give the thief more options to infiltrate others or better chances to flee, also would it make the shadowarts stronger

I see this changes as necessary.

Every thief reg 1 Ini all 1,66 sec, which mean that a simple Heartseeker has a CD from 4,96 sec
(rly long for a single target skill which effectivity is addicted from your critchance and the hp of your enemy).
And dont forget that both weaponsets share the same ini-pool.

you already got warriors as an efficient autoattack class
you want thieves damage to come from skill spam and autoattack :
-increase single target damage
-nerf skill rotation fluidity -5 sec reveal
-50% backstab damage

condition build
D/D 0 -0-30-30-10
signet of malice
dagger storm
death blosom
you can solo non-upgraded in 30-40 seconds
-full upgraded camp 1.5 min max 2
facetank everything

I am sorry, but i do not see “the support part” in your build.
you got 1 AOE (mediocre damage burn) with 5 seconds fire field
and 1 light field, but no blast
on topic:
1. change some trinkets for berseker /valkirie
and change food to omnomberry pie, since your sustain is low.
2.consider to invest 5 points in honor for vigor on critical for more mobility inside combat.
3.Consider to change one of the utility’s for judge’s intervention // save yourselves or hold the line.
You are not able to survive against high burst+CC , without an stun breaker, even in pve situations

Hello,
Since you are new to guardian i will tell you :
you can go for an full berseker build/ruby orbs wich might provide you high DPS, however guardian got 10000 base hp an his defence comes from boons and defensive traits lines.
i would recomand to have at least decent hp or armor
this is the minimum defence i would go , as an guardian, with mediocre/low mobility
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h4|c.1g.h17.d.1g.h2|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|3s.0.3t.0.31k.0.21k.0.3s.0.2s.0|f2.p37.a6.k29.0|39.7|0.18.13.1a.0|e
traits explanations :
15 radiance – virtue of justice is renewed when you kill an foe-it become spammable
15 in zeal 10% damage against burning foes
25 in radiance – 10% damage against burning foes
10 in valor – 120 precision – 100 armor and 10% critical damage
20 in honor -you get perma vigor for some mobility , and 20% faster skill reuse for GS.

Brutaly , you are wrong.
there are classes and builds where every point of healing power matter
1. 15 points in honor – minnor traits
grant vigor on critical (5 seconds -0 boon duration) every 5 seconds
heal yourself and nearby ally’s whenever you dodge
that means without vigor you refill your endurance every 20 seconds , with vigor every 10 seconds
selfless darring – heal for 129 + healing power every time you dodge –
at 2 dodges /10 seconds – 429 healing power will provide 5100 hp /minute from dodges , to yourself and 4 nearby ally’s = that can be at maximum 25000 hp
2. regeneration 429 healing power will increase regeneration effect with 54 /second.
on an AH build you get regeneration from
-trait inspired virtues – when you activate virtue of resolve -5 seconds
hold the line – 6 seconds – CD 28 seconds
SY 10 seconds -27 seconds in 1 minute
totaly 429 healing power can provide extra 1460 HP /minute from regeneration(AH build)
2 x shelters or 1 signet of resolve will provide another 600 HP / minute from 429 healing power
Totaly you can gain ( 600 1400 +5000 = 7000 ) extra hp / minute from 429 healing power, i belive is not really an waste since dodges and regeneration heal also 4 ally’s
you mentioned 476 but nvm i made calculations with 429.
power is over rated, and those efficient power /ehp are far from real, everywhere except 1 vs 1 combats.
I run with my guardian full clerics //celestials, base power 2700. every time i am in combat with team mates i got 15-25 stacks of might, provided by me or other ally’s or from fields, fact is even if battle last 10 minutes i can keep those 15 might stacks.
And everything changes if you add furry and 15+ stacks of might on the builds.
the build i use at this moment in wvwvw is -
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|6.1n.h6|2.1n.h1l|1n.71g.1k.71g.1c.b1h.1k.b1h.1n.71h.1k.71h|311.0.311.0.211.0.1j.61.1n.68.1a.68|0.0.u56b.u28b.a3|1.7|w.19.16.y.0|e
i got ridiculous low power, but my i can provide long duration stability /boons to ally’s and decent heals, and i can mentain 15-25 stacks of might.
My Ehp on that calculator is lol 27000 , and i say lol since my dodge roll heals for 5500 /6000 my regeneration last 10.5 seconds and is like 2480 for 10.5 seconds to 5 ally’s from hold the line.

first of all you must know your enemy’s
by that i mean you should notice against what kind of builds you will fight before you engage
-if you see an thief use shappering stone, curry butternut /assasin signet – he will be glas cannon in 90% of situations – so the best to focus him first, because he die easy but can be dangerous.
-if you see an warrior with 3-4 signets , without food, he can be your last target since he is newbie and won’t give you much troubles, even if you make mistakes he cannot punish you
-you also must pay attention to mesmers, specialy if they got critical food /utility’s they can have high burst and be dangerous.
-elementailists -usualy are not dangerous , most of players play balanced-tanky elementalists and they damage is easy to dodge/avoid.
-necromancers, can be an issue but never your first target, since they got high amount of HP and fear.
-rangers i usualy take them second, after thieves since they can provide decent/high damage and CC
-engineirs – you can notice easy what kind of build they play ,by main weapon – rifle -direct damage /// pistol / x condition.
- hammer /staf /scepter gs guardians -they are usualy too slow for you and cannot harass you to much.
When you can’t win , or you should not engage
Sword /shield guardians : – they can instant blind / knockback even without an target , very dangerous in groups, they can mess up your CnD rotation
hammer warriors-they can CC without an target, they usualy run shouts to protect ally’s

@brutaly
Op says he use knights AH or clerics
for you i will run AH celestial build vs an AH bersek build
Celestial :
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1n.h8|c.1i.h17.e.1i.h1|1n.71j.1n.71j.1c.71j.1n.71j.1c.71j.1n.71j|211.e13.311.e16.211.0.311.0.211.0.2v.0|0.f3.u56b.k28.5|54.1|w.16.18.19.0|e
power 1811 /Condition damage 426
Critical damage 76% / chance 43.5%
armor 3200 / max hp 16700
Healing power -476
VS berseker trinkets – armor /traits / food /weapons stay same
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1n.h8|c.1i.h17.e.1i.h1|1n.71j.1n.71j.1c.71j.1n.71j.1c.71j.1n.71j|3s.0.3s.0.2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|0.f3.u56b.k28.5|54.1|w.16.18.19.0|e
power -2101 -cond damage 210
critical damage 86% – critical chance 50.5%
armor 2933 /max hp 14600
healing power 260
*Pro’s -celestial *:
burning will hit with 54 damage more /second
9.5% extra armor ( on this build)
14.5% more hp ( on this build)
216 extra hp /dodge , sightly better regeneration /healing skill
*Pro’s – Bersek build *
292 more attack (10.5 )
7 extra critical hit chance /10% extra critical power

you say that you use AH build/healing build
So celestial
reasons ?
both builds got empowering might
the diference betwen celestial and berseker is 2 might stacks on p attack or 3% more damage compared with extra 40 healing /dodge 1.5% armor 450 hp
you can make comparation betwen divinity runes and ruby orbs, is similar

Rafahil.2857:

ShadowLordX.5148:

Lyssa runes can also be gotten for karma + transmutation stones.

Wait what? Please explain.

+savage kits
fixed for you
buy armor 42000 karma -trnsmutate rune to an rare armor + savage

you mean how to banish thief
no thx:
thief damage source is initiative
cut it down , and you lose the burst
but we can compensate if thief summon an clone whenever he dodge (like mesmers) heal for 1000 when dodge (like guardians) or have 20 weapon skills (like elementalists)
change skills to 1200 leap range (like other classes got) or maybe they just should be albe to equip kits like engineirs have ( wait i got cooldown , i change to grenades, wait cooldown again i change the kit).
Thief: wait i got cooldown, afk can’t kill you with autoattacks with my 10k hp/1900 armor
You can’t demand cooldowns without an fluid rotation.

the point is :
1.you got high base defence wich can survive an initial burst
2.you lack burst /CC to finish 1 enemy very fast (2800 attack -2950 with 4 stacks of might -wich is maximum you can keep up with might on dodge) 50 critical chance with double precision food
your burst is imobile, compared with dagger main hand who got HS and backstab, you rely on an chain.
3. you lack sustain, malice signet will heal you for 110 /hit /target – so in 1 vs 1 situations for 110 /hit and assasin reward 69 /point of initiative spent (maximum 1000 -1200 /10 seconds) meantime an retailation will punish you for 300 /hit.
those will not allow you to sustain an fight against
D/D elementalist for example wich is very mobile and can heal constant
Guardian – since he can mentain retailation and high regen /heals, and can output same amount of damage as you in an toe to toe fight.
List can go on, ofc you will test the build viability.

here are few suggestions OP :
1. weapon sets :
usualy 1 handed weapons +off hand are the way to deal with thieves
example 1 :
sword + shield :
sword 2 – will blind the thief even if you don’t have it targeted, use it arround 2 seconds after he went stealth, you will counter his backstab
sword 3- use it to punish thief that attacked you and force him to retreat
shield -5 use it to knock back the thief out of shadow refuge / smoke field
scepter + focus
scepter 1- auto attack usualy works fine at 200-400 range, it is easy to dodge it at 700 +range, is an fast attack good for harrasment
smite 2- good area damage works with VOJ pasive . put it behind you to punish the thief , if he is stealthed and attempt an backstab.
scepter 3- an imobilize is always good for toe vs toe against thief even for 1 or 2 seconds.
focus 4 – blind +regeneration
focus 5 – don’t need any explanation here.
2. utility’s sets
save yourselves is always an good utility for 1 vs 1
JI is good finisher/harrasment against thieves
sanctuary , can be used to take advantage over the fight if you train it for ground targeting and kick thief out of shadow refuge and prevent him to attack you.
3. armors and traits:
a. knights / bersek are best in slot for 1 vs1 situations
b. clerics are used more for support , groups and long term fights.
c. soldier are good for tanking survive initial burst and will not provide you much advantage in 1 vs 1 fights.

sorry for negative answer but this might help you improve
your build is paper, and not viable for pvp /wvwvw.
reasons :
1. you lack escape ability
2. you lack survaivability
3. any decent oponent will dodge away from your pistol wisp /caltrops
4. scorpion wire won’t pull ( an ranger for example ) from 1200 range to you
5. you cannot toe to toe big boys, like melle guardians (greatsword / sword+focus) or warrior (greatsword / axe +shield)
6. your traits are an mix betwen condition damage /direct damage and dodges
Sugestions for improvements :
1.decide for what you want to go :
direct damage or condition damage
survaivability or burst
2. get at least 1 escape ability (withdraw /hide in shadows /blinding powder /shadow refuge /shadowstep)
3.
pistol /pistol is an paper weapon set. 1 dodge and your entire unload will do 0 damage
It is also easy countered by retailation , and does not works good with 30 points in acrobatics. it works better with shadow arts.
sword /pistol – pistol wisp is easy to dodge /avoid, nothing more to say
4. you got 0 acces to stealth. thieves strongest attacks come from stealth

WvWvW stats -build shine in at least 20 vs 20, and is mediocre/weak →solo / 5 vs 5
Group dependent build -support /push
high duration boons // medium-high healings //decent criticals
low p attack solo -in groups i mentain minimum 12-15 might stacks
mediocre defence
Attached stats are with boon duration food , and precision utility

in my oppinion wvwvw JP reward should reset every sunday , not every day

Lyndis.2584:

I cannot count the amount of times I have outplayed a thief so terribly that I’m more than 75% HP while he’s below 10% after blowing his entire set on me.

Then, he just proceeds to chain stealth and reappears a couple thousand range away.

How in the world do I catch a thief? Even my pet, which has a 25% passive speed boost from my signet, and an ADDITIONAL 30% passive speed boost from one of my traits, along with swiftness, cannot catch up to a thief.

It’s utterly ridiculous and frustrating to have finally learned how to outplay a thief and then come down to the fact that they’re so impossibly slippery that I cannot kill them.

Edit : You all try to make it sound so easy. First of all, as a glass cannon ranger running a double bow setup, to not get blown up in an instant a thief engages is outplaying him by far. Thieves can heartseeker strike me when I’m 0-25% for over 10k damage with their executioner trait from the back. If you’re running Basilisk Venom, you use up 1/2 of my stun breakers right there, and the only two I have is either my healing mechanism, or my only escape tool (Lightning Reflexes rollback). It takes admittedly a lot of work to not even get demolished by a thief in under 5 seconds if they’re running a stealthy backstab build (which like 50% of thieves seem to be running in roam WvW builds.)

Secondly, as a double bow ranger, I have one daze, and one knockback, both of which require you to lock on a to a target before it can be used. The only other way to interrupt or bother a thief in shadow refuge is my barrage, which has a thirty second cooldown.

If you’re a thief running an assassin stealth backstab, spike DPS build, and you fail to kill a ranger who not only has only one skill on a 45 second cooldown to make distance between us as well as vitality and armor numbers both under 1000, you have been terribly outplayed.

Edit 2 : If anyone is asking ‘how in the world did you out play a thief then with a glass cannon double bow build?’ – it involves timing with a ranger ability called ‘Protect Me’.

i am sorry but if you blow your pet knockdown /fear before thief use shadow refuge , then you didnot outplayed the thief
you got leaps on melle weapons same as thief does.
thief got leap on dagger
ranger got leap on sword /greatsword
thief lack mobility with pistol / dagger – pistol / pistol
if you use invulnerability, get thief to under 50% health, and he get the opportunity to retreat you are the one outplayed.

kurtosis.9526:

Rayya.2591:

i see no real reason to use SY on 30 vs 30 for example

I see six reasons: Protection + Regen + Retaliation + Vigor + Swiftness + Stun Break.

There are few better non-elite anti-focus-fire skills than SY, and if you’re frontlining your zerg in 30v30 you’re gonna be getting focus-fired a lot.

Then again, I run with full Clerics + Boon Duration runes, so SY works really well in that setup. With OP’s build, the boon duration will be way less, but the defensive boons will probably be even more valuable since his gear makes him so glassy. And, short cd Stun Break is always clutch.

you got perma vigor/swiftness/retailation anyway , specialy with boon duration runes, you get more vigor swiftness that you need, and specialy in zerg vs zerg whee everybody blast the light fields
considering that you got 2 major runes of water /2 supperior of monk / 2 supperior of water + 20 points in virtues +omnomberry chocolate cream – you reach 80% extra boon duration
so you got all boons except stability for 18 seconds every 48 seconds (Trained)
Compared with
1. stand your ground -retaliation / stability -9 seconds x 5 ally’s +stun breaker every 24 seconds
2.hold the line- protection – 7 seconds / regeneration 10.1/2 seconds x 5 ally’s every 28 seconds
3. hallowed ground – stability -18 seconds x 5 ally’s +fire field (64 seconds trained)
i am sorry but SY is an poor choice even for boon durations and clerics, and i gave you 3 reasons for that

the 2 builds you mentioned should use diferent traits and diferent weapon sets
for an bersek build i would go for :
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|c.1p.h17.e.1p.h4|1.1p.h1l|1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j.1g.71j.1g.71j|31j.0.3v.0.2v.0.1g.67.1g.67.2s.0|0.k63.u56c.k16.0|39.7|w.13.18.19.0|e
with 111% critical damage , 2 stun breakers, 3 teleports 1 stability, good for 1 vs 1 or small scale fights, self heals and boons
For an more tanky build i would go for alturistic heal .
2 shouts , decent critical chance, a lot of boons, wich will provide me constant regeneration
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|2.1n.h1j|6.1n.h6|1n.7o.1n.7o.1c.7o.1n.7o.1n.7o.1n.7o|2u.0.21j.0.31j.0.1p.61.1p.61.2v.0|0.0.u56b.u28b.a3|55.7|w.16.y.19.0|e
You cannot use same trait line to compare builds.

i’ve got mesmer /guardian /thief /warrior lvl 80, and i’ve done wvwvw with all of them
from my point of view sword /x is the most powerfull guardian weapons in 1 vs 1.
1. autoattack chain 1/2 sec // 1/2 sec / no cast time – the fastest auto attack chain
2.flashing blade – no cast time, it blind nearby foes even without target ( good counter against thieves/warriors)-1 of the best guardian weapon skills ingame
3. zeallot defence – can block an killshot /volley… etc

your traits are fine , but weapon set and utility’s are paper for large fights
i see no real reason to use SY on 30 vs 30 for example
same goes for scepter

Empyre.2531:

Rayya.2591:

in my humble oppinion there is no point in accusing eachother of bloobing
piken blob and baruch blob, the only diference is that piken blob with 1 guild 20 members +10 -30 pugs (involuntary – you can’t stop ppls to follow you, even if you turn badge off ) and baruch blob with 2 -3 organized guilds ( not sure why) .

Didn’t know that GH, Nug and 2nd are 1 guild + 10-30 pugs (with badge on).

…and of course Oracle of Glint I will do it, because that is what is happening. Just another server.

i am sorry, i just talked from own experience, (usualy i avoid EB and home border) i didn’t saw guilds blobing togheter, and rarely saw SCND or GH with badge on.
On EB i was few times last week , and i have to admit almost every time pikens had an blob of 60 -80 // baruch had an blob of 60 -80 and RS same. 1 of the reasons i avoid EB

in my humble oppinion there is no point in accusing eachother of bloobing
piken blob and baruch blob, the only diference is that piken blob with 1 guild 20 members +10 -30 pugs (involuntary – you can’t stop ppls to follow you, even if you turn badge off ) and baruch blob with 2 -3 organized guilds ( not sure why) .

i don’t have problems against assura mesmers, target and kill the real one.
However when i fight an assura party i have no ideea how many they are)

actualy sword damage is mediocre
is an weapon that lack burst, and if enemy dodge 2 CND already destroy all your rotation.
Haven’t played sword /x but never had real problems against that builds

i agree with you OP
but if mesmer dodge, thief should get an clone attacking the mesmer also
if guardian heal on dodge , everybody attacking guardian should get healed as well
when warrior have full adrenaline all enemy’s in area should receive 360 hp every 3 seconds / 12 % damage / 9 % critical chance
Since we share stealth , why not share everything ?

you got 4 weapons :
shortbow
dagger / x
pistol /x
sword /x
you can equip 2 weapon sets , that mean at least 50% of thieves will use one weapon set with dagger main hand (backstab build – in most of the situation)
Since the majority prefer direct damage over condition, on all classes, most of thieves would use some form of"backstab build"

randomfightfan.4091:

The only way for thieves to have higher single target dps than warriors is to have ambush trap and thieves guild out while the warrior just needs to be swapping from gs to axe. That doesn’t make any sense. Would be hard to change this without massive balance issues but really thief should have higher attack damage on daggers than warrior has on axe autos. Maybe if everything on the 1 bar for single target attacks ignored armor values it would help balance the issue.

When you have a dagger or pistol out and are only hitting 1 target, you are a able to aim for the vulnerable areas like the gaps in the armor, the neck, and the eyes. When you have an axe or gs out, you’re just smashing through the armor and don’t give a crap about where you’re aiming. Reason why things like hs and sword autos don’t count is b/c you’re just trying to smash things, not really aiming anywhere in specific.

If you don’t agree with me then that’s fine but I still feel something should be done to make it so thieves have higher single target dps than what a warrior can do in an aoe.

Here is your answer, Scootabuser made calculations
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-thief/first

Scootabuser.4915:

This is after the next patch that switches the reveal back to 3 seconds. More DPS and an easier rotation then the warrior, but more difficult to survive.

Traits

Gear:
Berzerkers
Ruby Orbs
Sigil of Force
Sigil of Accuracy (Can be higher with 25 stacks of sigil of perception)
Butternut Squash Soup
Superior Sharpening Stone

Max DPS Rotation
CLoak And Dagger
Backstab
Auto Chain
Repeat

Total DPS while behind boss: 8669
With 25 Stacks: 9060

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-warrior/first#post1886080
guys, you have to DOWNLOAD the spreadsheet in the link, the default builds on that thing are NOT what I used, the default builds on the spreadsheets use omnomberry bars and the wrong traits with bad rotations and are missing sigils.
Also, if you want to add a dodge into the rotation, you can do it yourself, a dodge takes .75 seconds and you can dodge every 10 seconds SO
CnD
Backstab
Auto
CnD
Backstab
Auto
Dodge
THAT BEING SAID, why. This is what’s called theoretical DPS. It is not an accurate in game measurement, rather it is a tool for understanding how different classes compare. For example, the theoretical DPS of ranged weapons are usually around 3-4k DPS, 10-50% less damage then melee. AN did this on purpose for the exact reason that sometimes melee people have to back out and BLAH BLAH BLAH
Applied DPS is the in game accurate one, but to do that, you need a DPS counter and ALOT of trials. And I mean ALOT of trials, and it’s going to change per player. So from a scientific perspective applied DPS isn’t as useful when looking at things like class balance, or best builds.
DEEP BREATH
ok im done

spam cluster
ress downed ally’s
dodge
collect bags
repair walls /dors
cap supply camps

new appearance with charred dye and Rox’s quiver

i finaly found an appearance that i like thanks to makeover kits /name change kits and new style items /dyes

you will not kill an Pro tanky warrior /guardian in 1 vs 1, no matter how good you are or what build you use
against warrior (axe /shield ) //greatsword) – you cannot trade blow for blow with warior since he got 3100 -3200 defence and over 20k hp, and he got same critical chance /damage / p attack like you.
The only chance is to harass him with CnD and land backstabs while he cast HB, but that won’t bring him down. Axe can kill you in less then 3 seconds with 3 autoatacks + shieldbash /eviscerate.
Against guardian, if he got an sword /focus you have low chances already. Sword will blind you every 10 seconds no matter if he target you or not , focus will provide him regen /3 blocks / another blind.
However against guardian shortbow is viable specialy if they use hammer /greatsword.

SoulSin.5682:

First of all, I am completely uninformed of all those nerfs and etc.
I made my Thief after the nerfs started on purpose since I don’t like broken classes. Now that nerfs started I made my thief and I am trying to stay here. Yup I am a bit masochist.

And this question is straight related to WvWvW only.

That said:

Why my Backstab damage is so low?
I keep floating around 5.7k~6k at best (solo, with foods only). I find quite amazing to see some thiefs hitting close to 12k (some even more) and I am stuck at half that.
What I am doing wrong?

For information, my stats in the attachment. I am using full Valkyrie with Zerk trinkets and Zerk Weapons. At the moment D/D and SB, though I am planning to change the SB to S/D since I like the combinations and I never really liked range damage.
Full Ruby Orbs on Armor and Trinkets.
Traits are 10/30/10/20/0

5700 -6000 is normal
you won’t hit any decent enemy for 12000 without 20 + stacks of might + 25 stacks of bloodlust 25 points in DA /30 Crit/114 % + CD
In fact i could claim i hit for 16500 and my stats are :
2850 power and 99% critical damage .
But the true is : my target was an upleveled character with missing armor parts probably

thieves can spam 4 poison fields x 4 seconds from stealth. fields re -apply poison every second as far i remember.
it is hard to keep up non stop stability .
Warrior 2 utility :
balanced stance / dolyak signet – like 10 seconds each with 30% boon duration
guardian : hallowed ground 10 seconds stability x 5 targets
stand your ground 8 seconds stability x 5 targets with 60% boon duration
Usualy they use the stability when they enter battle not when they regroup to heal /buff.
And sorry i write above guardian shelter – Guardian sanctuary * 900 cast range

Sacrx.6721:

Sup haters make sure to deposit your souls to me this week. Looking forward to being back in t3. You should not play for points and let AR win this week. You get good action then hopefully riverside will be removed as server. Lets try keep t3 piken – bb – AR good work.

Love you cya tomorrow. kiss.

Last 3 days you could find BB only after 23:00 , PS tick +400 all day, BB +400 all night.
I am waiting for AR to come and make the daytime more interesting

Ralathar.7236:

This will be an unpopular suggestion, but in their current state Water Fields are overpowered. They are currently the single fastest way to heal a zerg in short order and are way stronger than the other fields by far. They also completely change the face of how WvW combat is done with their presence.

It is common place for an organized group to run into a battle, kill a good amount, retreat, place a water field, and then everyone uses their blast finishers and the entire zerg is healed to full. Then re-engage. Likewise a well placed water field mid battle can completely heal all the melee inside when called out in advance with organization.

I LOVE this on a tactical side, and it does make my staff elementalist feel even more important. But from a balance side of things this is definitely not balanced and does not share the same design philosophy on the power of the rest of the healing in the game.

Suggestion: Cut the direct heal from the water field in half and apply the remainder as regeneration. This will allow it to heal the same amount overall, yet have more counter play and reduce it’s burst healing potential.

water fields are easy to counter:
Guardian shelter in middle of the field
guardian walls in middle of the zerg
mesmer area pull
poison fields
2/3 fear /stomp… etc
they are good for organized against unorganized zerg , and tactics should be promoted not banished

GhostHawks.6519:

i wanna play a ranger but it seems that they don’t fair so well in wvw

ranger is not the best , but is very strong in groups
pro’s:
best water field in game
ranged aoe damage
strong in 1 vs 1 with melle weapons
very strong underwater

I killed you Mr. Pro
it took me 10 days to catch you, but here we are
P.S 1-0 play again ?

Gj FOW
wonder who beat vizunah now

Wolfield.9812:

Put a Blast finisher at thief location on body shot Thief pistol 2# skill.

Thank you.

Goodbye.

yes so pistol can be new weapon for aoe stealth
black powder -6 initiative -body shot 3 (-2 ) = 3 seconds aoe stealth
so you can actualy stealth 5 ppls for 12 seconds with P/P every 12 seconds

invulnerability, lool
then the drama begins………

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

muscarine.5136:

First this is WvW…

Second, I’m not sure mug WvW crits against lvl20 casuals running around with lvl10 white and blue gearis relevant when it comes to balance.

yes is WvWvW
Op did not used supperior sharpening stone and had 4 stacks of bloodlust, wich could increase damage with 10-20% ?

Travlane.5948:

ok. i have 4 sets of armor! 5% dmg on each dagger. 30 30 0 0 10 (highest DPS in game) full zerk gear/accs/rules/jewels. ……. wont hit 10k…wont hit 9k…wont hit 8……MIGHT get near 7k. and thats ONLY if you hit another glass cannon. or and upscale could be more depending on what it is! read whatever u want about whatever u want. its like you said we could also do 5 cluster bombs in 2.5 seconds…try more like 5 in 5 seconds……4 trick shots in 1 second? try like 4 in 4 seconds. thief numbers are all whacked. ask any thief

with that same build…u hit a guardian….and dont crit….u might do only 1200 dmg! with a burst build! yeah 1200…iver personally dont it to a guard! go figure.

this boy can teach you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Mug-and-why-it-was-overpowered/first#post1921447
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66574/mug_1.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66575/mug_2.jpg

greyblue.4962:

Since confusion is currently the only counter in the game for a number of builds that will otherwise become extremely OP, it seems like we need there to be a few other tweaks now that confusion damage is being reduced by 50% in WvW:

1. Increase initiative cost of cloak and dagger to 8. Confusion is currently the best counter to backstab thieves. Hidden killer being nerfed won’t touch these, as most backstab builds don’t use it. Increasing the cost of C&D will force them to be much more careful with their hits and give other classes a chance.

2. Decrease base healing of all Guardian skills by 25%, let healing power bonuses remain the same. Confusion mesmers are also the primary counter for bunker Guardians. This would help to balance Guardians so they have to actually think about their builds a bit.

Any other changes people can think of that might be needed? It seems like those two, along with the elementalist nerfs incoming should do the trick.

1. Ok if we increase cooldown for phase retreat to 15 seconds -12trained , so mesmer won’t be able to spam dodge / phase retreat /dodge /dodge /phase retreat
2. ok but descrease retailation duration from COF with 30% . Mesmer should actualy invest in boon duration if they want perma retailation

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

Anatolian Turk.4057:

Not too long ago we know that NA t8 was a horrible mess with so many problems in terms of lopsided matches but guess what? The same virus has infected EU t1. We can call this a T-Virus if you wish (people from EU t1 and t2 know what I mean by that). Every EU server except Vizunah Square is trying to avoid t1. Servers from t2 are fighting ‘not’ to go to t1 while servers in t1 like desolation and SFR are fighting to go down a tier. Desolation including SFR has lost a lot of hard core wvw guilds in the past couple of weeks. And we are still losing people every passing day. A lot of people I know from Deso has already quit gw2 because t1 is staled and boring. Even if we try there is no way in the world we can drop down to t2 thanks to the glicko system. We are stuck here for good which makes me sad. If Anet doesn’t step in now, EU t1 will be a zombie town and I mean it.

looks like Desolation was an bandwagon in the end

Travlane.5948:

well u quote theoretical ideas a lot. I play thief. trust me they don;t hit for 10k with steal. 6.5k is usually the high end. it has been maaaaaaaaaaaaany months since i have hit 8k for steal and that was on an upscale.

ps…if you understood my sarcasm you would not have mentioned my “poor grammar”

ask yourself what you do wrong then
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mug
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might
Assassin’s Signet – Active: Deal 15% more damage on your next five attacks.

Travlane.5948:

ok mug doesnt do 8k dmg. so stop with that nonsense….the high end is like 6k6.5k on full 30 30 0 0 10 burst build (strongest in game) also dies the fastest in game. and only hits this hard against upscales. your ‘average’ build hits 3-4k with it. and backstabs in those builds are about 5.6k usually “ish” now this said…..its not OP. is it op in D/D ….eh maybe ….probably slightly yes. but in that build u WILL DIE! you have a 50% chance of killing 1 person ….then a what…90% chance of dying if theres several enemies around…..so who cares……but nerfing it for the high dmg build means nerfing the low dmg builds that really rely on it for a decent push. should it belong for 10 traits? prolly 20 to be honest. but if u look in the power line…there should be some dmg somewhere in there…but theres not….we have mug…and a 5% dagger dmg boost. pfft …thats ALL we have for real dmg in the power line. rest are a few immobs….vulnerabilites….venom crap….might /signet this n that. so mug is really our only viable huge dmg burst from our big bad power line.

average thieves hit for 3000, if damage formula say it hits 8000, then it hits
if you add sigil of force, if enemy wear robe full bersek, 10.000 is posible on lvl 80 player
average thieves belive they are the best at 20.000 wvwvw kills and 1 legendary

What is your first language? not English right? you missed my sarcasm…poor grammar and horrible spelling was meant as a dig. You obviously missed that bc you dont speak english well. yes well….not good…hence the first being sarcasm…ask anyone . peace kiddo.

if ENg is not my first lang, and you understand it, then is not that horible.
if you spell wrong is because you want too, i got your point:))
That makes me the kiddo and you very mature

Travlane.5948:

nothign wrong
think you ahve all the facts.
no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol.

you should stop for real with the english
And in the end, it is normal that most of thieves to disagree with the nerf, since is thief forum.
Bring this to wvwvw forum and 100 ppls will disagree, 10-15% of server population will agree with you.
I got one trait that require 10 trait points (adept) and got skill coeficient 1.5
now that means
if i use 10/30/30 build with full berseker gear utility’s shadow refuge / assasin signet and SoS (signets of power )- an common burst build i will reach 2400+250 (bloodlust) + 700 (20 stacks of might) 3350 power
weapon damage 952 * 3350 (power) * 1.10 (first strikes) * 1.5 *1.15 assasin signet/ 2000 (target defence- an glas cannon) -3025 damage MUG – but is not enough you want to crit for 2800 *2.70 =8000+ damage in 1 trait

Travlane.5948:

randomfightfan.4091:

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

steal hits block, invuln, dodge, distortion, certain mobs/bosses, etc. You get nothing.

TY FOR AGREEING lol this guy up here is just a clueless mob sheep steal by itself sux. the only skill i get happy at is whirl….but if ur fighting more than one player it will kill you bc you are taking dmg that you cant avoid for 4 seconds or more. you cant even use it unless you have like 60% or more hp…or ur dead. gunk? pfft hits once…adds a random condition…nobody stays in it. fear? 1.5 secs of fear? pffft lol big dea. consume plasma is nice….but 10 secs aint saving our kitten ..although it is def nice…but u also cant cast it unless ur invis bc its like 1.5 sec cast time. ranger ?? well remove conditions we already have…regen we have….the heal is ok b ut too risky to waste intiative in a battle especially when 1/5 may heal somebody who needs it. CLUSTER bomb is so slow that it wont even heal the dmg you take while activating it. has to be just the right condition. 3 secs of stealth is good …prollyh the 2nd best thing we have to be honest but it doesnt heal or dmg. but dont get me wrong very usefull. now compare these to direct heal direct blocks direct fire burning…….all steal is ….is a gap closer to open the fight with and maybe usefull if fighting 1 or 2 of 8 classes. :P

is second time you insult me today, second really desirve an report
if you don’t like the skills on thief, you can easy play your overpowered guardian, wich you claim you master, and that is 10 times better
P.S. cluster cast time is 1/2 seconds -you can cast 5 clusters in 2.5 seconds.