Guild Wars 2

Pavel.8531:

This is my warrior… in the OS(no stacks, no guard buffs, no bloodlust). Only food and 5 might stacks from the signet. I feel so dirty when fighting 1v1 on him…

My God man!! That build is OP, I mean look at that magic find

Runty Choir.4893:

Form.8741:

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Are you serious? Warrior has 5 skills, most thieves only use 2. Who is really trying to play the easy mode class?

Guys I found another one

Travlane.5948:

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

Well I’m not going to say they are in the realm of 30/30/30/30/30 but yes, they have a higher sustained damage, better toughness, great healing thats passive mind you , Cleansing Ire and food for condi removal, and let’s be real here. At least we have the decency to disappear before we run. They just flat out run, a large distance and all you can do is watch them. See we hit hard in bursts. They hit hard in bursts and then can keep hitting hard. My experiences with a warrior, if you’re fighting him and you find the opening to unleash on him, and he still has a good amount of health left after you’ve used like two of your utilities, its not worth it. I once saw an axe warrior auto attack my thieves guild away after I had just summoned them (hence when I’ve seen the AA do 3k damage per swing)

In Conclusion: The warrior is the best class. There other classes in the game solely to compare them to the warrior.

They arent just nerfing thief damage, they are nerfing crit damage period. And yes, it seems warriors are now hard to beat with regular dagger sets, even with DP sometimes. It isnt that we lack dmg output, its that they can do our damage and outlast us so much longer. In fact, they have a much higher sustain than us. Ive seen the axe autoattack hit for like 3k each swing. It was ridiculous, and infuriating. Ridiculously infuriating. But its the eviscerate thatll get you if you are not careful. My main gripe though is that when you get them low they run and there isnt a thing you can do about it. Most of the time if you chase them theyll turn around and open up the hurt.

We are thieves, not mesmers, silly. We can’t read minds, what’s your gear?
As for the rest, I think the lyrics of Viva la Vida by Coldplay describe our class. We used to be very feared, now warriors have taken that spot. And we’ve gotten some pretty hefty nerfs since you’ve gone. Like a 33% decrease in dmg to Cloak and Dagger to name one big one.

1) From mobs its usually random with a set steal pool, you’ll never get a whirling axe from a jaguar, but you could get hair, tooth stab, maybe even throw gunk. However ambient mobs have a high chance for a tuft of hair, avian creatures have a good chance for throw feathers, which has the same effect as tuft of hair.. Aetherblades, even in Edge of the Mists, have a high chance of giving you Drink when you steal, which gives 3 seconds of invulnerability.
As for other professions:
Elementalist: ice shard stab
Thief: tuft of hair
Guardian: Mace head crack
Warrior: Whirling Axe
Engineer: Throw gunk
Mesmer: Consume plasma
Necromancer: Fear
Ranger: healing seed

2)It would be exceptional but if you want to do that, Id rather you go more into Trickery than just for a steal range increase. But if this is just for PvE than by all means. Most thieves go full into CS since that is where our damage comes from so taking away from that may hinder you.

3)The two popular sister builds are 10/30/30/0/0| 0/30/30/10/0/0
The first one gives a bit more power and adds a mug, the latter is slightly less powerful but offers a bit more health and acrobatics. So if you don’t have mug don’t worry, a lot of us play without it and do just fine, even putting that 10 into trickery won’t hurt you, it’s just most put it into either DA or ACro

4)Yes, Start a CnD and before it finishes, use steal for an instant tele attack. Coupled with basilisk venom, it gives a nice opener or a mid fight retaliation. Be careful, if you steal while stealthed and you have mug traited, it will reveal you. Note, infiltrators signet does the same effect, you just won’t get a bundle since it is not steal, but on the flip side it’s a stun break.

5)It depends on the situation. Most class bundles are actually very useful for the class you stole it from, i.e. let’syou stealth longer than the thief, let’s guardians susceptible by locking out their skill usage, can reflect a warriors kill shot, can greatly reduce elementalist combat by chilling them putting even attunements non slow CD, can give you spare time to strip a necromancer out of deathshroud, can give you added overall strength to combat a mesmer, can let you burst heal is you steal from a ranger and shed condis. Exception in engineer, it isn’t all that useful and can still reveal you. heartseeking through the gunk gives you chaos armor though. Blasting it gives area Chaos armor and projectiles and whirls dispense confusion, but to be honest, that doesn’t help much. As for whether we know or not, it’s a matter of practice and memorization. Steal enough things over time and you have innate knowledge of what they do and when to use them.

6) That depends. You can only shadowstep or blink up to an area if the game believes that the target area is within that running distance. If I see a platform I want to shadowstep to that’s above me or any form of terrain and the game believes that running to the platform is within the 1200 range, then I can shadowstep to it. If the game calculates that the running distance is beyond 1200, I will blink right below the platform and would have wasted a utility. Same with stealing, if the target is withing the 1500 distance, you will steal up to him, but up a keep wall? No, it wouldn’t happen because it’s a keep wall.

7) Stealing can be used to get away. Target a mob and steal to pull yourself away. Here is a very cool trick. Moves like Ice shard stab and mace headcrack can be hard to land sometimes. But if you have these bundles and know your steal is off CD, you can double tap steal quickly to start the bundle casting then steal to the person to hit them with the bundle and take another bundle, possibly hitting them again. Another use is for thief stomping, when the thief is about to port away, get steal ready, as soon as they blink, steal to them to finish the stomp. Once again, Infiltrators Sigent has the same effect. Shadowstep can be an alternative too, I’ve even counter counter stomped elementalists with it. Steal , while I think should be a stunbreak, is a pseudo stunbreak. You can still steal when CC’d so if someone CC’s you and your quick enough to target something off the side, you can steal to dodge the incoming punishment.

Don’t be silly OP, all you have to do is simply hit back and watch the thief come out of it. In fact I only use Whirling Axe against a warrior to reflect a kill shot or to free up my steal again. Occasionaly if I have pistol off hand Ill use it in there while they mindlessly get hit by it. But there is in no way a warrior should be complaining about a thief’s stolen skill. I mean all you have to do is dodge or kite around him, or hit him. By what you’re implying, you’re telling us that you probably don’t even lift.

As for the first two im going to politely suggest you just don’t use pistol mastery for those weapons. I may not actually know the answer but it wouldn’t help much there.

Yes, a dual skill is the number 3

In that case I’d say go exec, but investing that much into crit chance isn’t something you need. I’d say mid thirties is fine in a lot of cases. Even still the massive increase to injured targets when your crit chance is already reliable is promising. But assuming you didn’t have that much prec investment, then Hidden Killer would be better for its 100% chance.

There is no way, just hope you arent attacking when it is about to proc, and I wish you didnt mention that, I can hear the tsunami of people who hate that trait on their way.

THANK YOU THANK YOU. FINALLY someone agrees with me! Im sick of wearing duelist boots. They look cool but I wanna try whispers, but oh goddont look at whispers boots on us, it is 10x worse than that pic I cant +1 this enough

What: Basilisk Venom
Why: When I use it, it seems to last for .5 seconds, when they use it, it seems to last for 3 whole seconds and is therefore too stronk

Medium boots look so bulky on female models for sylvari

Viking Jorun.5413:

SoLeciTO.3490:

Viking Jorun.5413 i don’t know if you are one of those thieves that love to say they are experts because they do not use D/P or talking seriously.

D/P is the best set for WvW . . . yes.

But it doesn’t mean it is OP.

Anet must buff other sets to be a real option.

Man i’m really tired of this forum, always calling all good build cheesy, all good counters OP, and “a total imbalance” for every profession they can not kill.

I run stealthless S/P quite successfully in WvW, and shut down D/P thieves on a regular basis, even in dueling and outnumbered situations when I’m seen before I can get the jump on people. I never said that it was OP. I said it was fun, and quite powerful for what it’s meant for. Please don’t take offense when someone says that the set you run is easy to play compared to what they’re used to.

Thanks, mate!

I have to say, your set is wen easier compared to what I do. I run PP quite successfully in WvW, even do very well in outnumbered situations. Unload is easily the most overlooked skill that thief players see when they try PP. I honestly don’t know why no one uses it. The blinds give me an edge when a thief catches me off guard as well. Not to mention the constant pressure from my auto attack, SP tsk tsk all of you should go PP you filthy cashulz

Jackmo.3428:

I like that the engire discussion is betwee thief warrior. As if either of those c,lasses could be a measure of whats balanced right now.

Well it started on the thief forum so yup

Doggie.3184:

Too bad it can’t just stay out with us till it dies like Necro’s Flesh Golem.

This oh god this. I would actually use it more if this were the case, and give it a tackle like the wolf of a ranger instead of golem charge…….. Sounds good right?
EDIT on second thought, this would be OP because of that one profession that has to ruin it for all of us cough ranger cough

No one can justify the Warrior’s state right now. I decided to semi-roam (go off but not too too far from friendly towers and keeps) with my necromancer, fear-necro. Now as most of us surmise, necromancers are, or at least should be, the masters of conditions. Rapid application, removing, transferring heck even so far as eating them. I ran into a warrior and a mesmer who was uplvld. As expected the mesmer went down pretty quickly due to the conditions I was applying and tranferring back to her while simultaneously kiting away from the warrior. And you PD thieves need to understand it’s not playing conditions thats easier, it’s playing condition thief, that being said as a necromancer I had to use my only stun lock a couple times but mainly kited the warrior while focusing the mesmer.

Now pay attention, I said the mesmer went down I never got to finish her because the warrior would stop, go to rez and literally face tank all of my conditions. Even when I feared him off, his food buff of 40% decrease condi’s helped him a ton. Now I looked at my combat feed and did in fact see I was hitting him with major spells a necro would use Grasping dead, Marks, spectral wall even enfeebling blood. Despite the punishment he took, I never once saw his health go less than 10%. I had him targeted the whole time to watch his health while using aoe’s on the mesmer. His passives were cleansing and outhealing my condition damage. This is unacceptable. Granted I did have to split attention between him and another, his health should’ve at least taken a dent but not even that was given. So yeah, I ended up biting the dust. It doesn’t make sense how a class can blindly run at you the whole time and not get punished for it.

Auesis.7301:

No, don’t ask for more changes. Those changes will just be more nerfs. Make do with what we have now.

I agree with Auesis here. Stay on the down low guys, the fact that we aren’t being mentioned is a good thing for the most part.

I like coming back here to read these interesting names sylvari unite!

Bombsaway.7198:

I realize this may be like asking for a recipe to boil water but how would you set that up?

Assuming you mouse turn (which you kinda should be doing as a thief :P) point your camera down as if you were wanting to run into the ground, when you heartseeker, it wont go very far. Now if you use blackpowder, you do this quick enough, HS down then turn the camera while still facing down, then HS again, rinse and repeat. This can be done up to 3 times now, it used to be four but nerfs or maybe you can…I dont play DP a lot and with the new changes this tactic is normally used as much :p

Actually, Zacchary may be on to something, traits that revolve around being revealed…someone think of more suggestions quick! I especially like the Caught idea, should be a minor I think.

Yeah I mean I understand that poison reduces healing but people seem to be thinking warriors stand still. Shortbow #4 is the best since it has a long poison uptime (until they clear it) but it’s only long if one stays in it for the full duration. On its own, the shortbow is ineffective toward warriors since it does little damage to them, which they passively heal, and most ini is spent evading to keep distance with the occasional cluster bomb.

That brings me to dagger mainhand, Lotus Strike, at the end of an autoattack. Yes it gets there, but a common tactic I see is just getting the wildstrike out and then evading because the warrior usually comes hard with an attack at that point, so even getting a lotus strike out is risky, let alone several.

Everyone else basically said what needed to be said so I’ll add in this: You will get hit, it’s an extremely likely outcome of any battle. But if there is one thing you don’t want to be hit by, its bullrush to set up for one hundred blades, shieldbash, and worst of all, eviscerate. For the love of all that is holy dont get hit by eviscerate. I’ve seen numbers from that move my thief dreams about.

Can we make Burnfall an honorary thief for that comment? I’m out of breath :’D

Rafahil.2857:

What builds!? Thieves still have builds?

They haven’t been nerfed hard enough! Quick get the nerfs out!

Use a class that does the work for you, or use a class everyone will hate you for.

I was fighting a warrior today right. So, there we are each about half health, a cast CnD right before it hits the warrior hits me with a hammer autoattack (hambow is ophee), procing LR RIGHT before CnD landed causing me to do an emergency and immediate Shadowstep away, turn around and /threaten @ the warrior to make it seem like they got lucky. The sad part is, I know that story was probably the single most best thing you’ve read in your life, I know, but it happens at least thrice a day and it’s getting annoying. Yeah it’s saved me, but times like that, it saves my opponent. Like it may sound OP, but I’m desperate, make LR its own stealth like how a mesmer can still use decoy to stealth when revealed, at least I believe they can

1) No, stealth cannot be permanent. Stealth is used in bursts during combat, otherwise you stay out of stealth for awhile. The longest stealth at one time is from a skill called Shadow Refuge will will stealth you for about 15 seconds. Other than that, get used to be invisible for about 3-4 seconds at a time. And you are 100% invisible, even to other enemy players in PvP WvW content, like not even that air distortion effect is seen

2)You are a thief :P until you learn the ins and outs, you will die quite alot. Any class but mainly thief. Try SP for pistolwhip and black powder

3)Yes, we are very quick and deal high damage at the cost of being very weak in the defense department, stealth and evasion as well as shadowsteps supplement that

and welcome to the thief community, we may be thieves but we can be welcoming

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Yeah it’s not overly useful – but then it probably depends on what profession you’re playing.

I’m an elementalist so the Sylvan Hound makes absolutely no sense when I have access to the Earth Elemental summon.

Yeah I mean it -may- help rangers, kinda

Doggie.3184:

It’s useful if you need something warm to cuddle with. That’s about it.

But Doggie that’s your job…

swinsk.6410:

I’m running 0/30/30/10/0 in spvp with haste and d/p. it’s funzie in. 8v8 hotjoins

So this is still viable in hotjoins??? thank the maker *rerolls

Morpheoz.9452:

Hello

This very intersting post generated a few questions for me:

1. Is there a cap on runspeed out of stealth in and out of combat, and in stealth in and out of combat?

2. Does speedboost from Traveler runes, signet of shadows, Fleet shadow and expeditious dodger stack ?

Cheerz

Morpheoz

Is youre talking about the trait, then the cap is 50%, ive never used it though since its hard for me to tell if its actually 50 or 33 but someone can answer that. and no speed bonuses do not stack, it will always be 25% unless swiftness is applied, then it will be 33% until the swiftness is gone, then its back to 25% no matter how many run bonuses you have

I will personally wait to see how hard Valkyrie gets hit before I make my decision afterwards, but I’m bracing myself

I feel like this would promote HS spam more, yeah its more ini, but as soon as you can use it again then go for it. As it stands, in some circumstances, HS can hit almost as hard as BS, so why not a BS then an even stronger HS follow up? But it wont make DD any more viable than it is because youre changing a skill DD already uses

Amonatory.2453:

LMAO…. Thats not build, but good try big boy. I find it funny as hell that you try to give a build thats not mine to people haha

Who said it was yours? Is your name Amonator? Noooo

How useful is this elite? I’ve never used it really, well once, I notice it gives blood and poison and can even crit, and makes my sylvari say “Let us fly!” but is this an actual useful elite?
EDIT: And keeps you in combat -_-

Good insight all. I was actually having an IG discussion with the group that gave birth to this. I agree with Viking, among others, that this would increase bursting and shy us away from acrobatic builds and such. Heck maybe even P/D for that extra condi damage burst. For a little fun fact, this was also hypothesized for realistic purposes to simulate how you get varying levels of tired depending on how much you exert yourself near your physical limit. But then again we shadowstep so screw realism?

In my honest opinion, the game has progressed to a point where other players can counter an initial thief burst, and being raw dps, you’ll lawn chair if they react to you. You tried to supplement this with converting prec to health and skelk venom it looks like but regardless those in of themselves won’t save you from being hit rather hard. You dont have any gear set up so Ill focus on traits and skills:

Trait wise, I’d take furious retaliation as it will give a +20 crit chance when the target is at half health. Mainly I say that since you are taking executioner so you’ll want that crit chance to be high for the benefits of overlap. Side strikes is constant, but not as high and you won’t always hit from the side or back.

Signets of power would be better off for ya since you already have two signets and you seem to want to end things very quickly. Keep in mind, what you’re going for is very high risk. If you dont want that playstyle where you try to burst in three hits, keep Practiced tolerance. Executioner is fine. Sidenote: Id use assassins signet over scorp wire for your cause. would give more power and might if you choose Signets of power.

You have dagger training, and it’s easy to see why but you also have skelk venom, which would allow you to get the benefits of Venomous strength. Improvisation will also be very good since youre going to steal to start an encounter and youll get bonus damage wielding a bundle ( i think more than Dagger training will offer).

Last, Flanking Strike seems good, but I recommend Thrill of the Crime.

P.S. If you choose Sig of Malice over skelk venom, that benefits from signets of power but then dont use Venomous strength for obvious reasons, and signets stack their might with that trait. I should also mention that basilisk venom will be used to start an encounter to venomous strength also wins there.

Cynz.9437:

i couldn’t resists http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

It’s been ages….yet Cynz, you fool, this implies we end up as the victor >:D Muahahaha wait why am I laughing?

Doggie.3184:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Doggie.3184:

I always get bored when I’m playing D/P, personally. It’s a lot easier to kill people with it than other builds, even though I tend to annihilate D/P Thieves with S/D (my favorite in the fun department) really easily. It’s just a safer build with the stealth and you can escape from battle when you need to. I even find D/D more fun, but people seem to not want to deal with missing CnD.

Getting bored of most things though lately. Wondering when I’ll get to use Dagger/Focus or Torch or something new. O_o We need more cheese.

You haven’t heard the leaked new class weapons?

• Warrior – WinBow
• Thief – Kraft™ Box
• Mesmer – MoarStealthCondiSpamDagger
• Ranger – UselessPetOnlyWeaponOfJustice
• Elementalist – ActuallyUsefulButNerfedIn2DaysLongbow
• Guardian – LastDitchEffortToMakeDPSGuardAThingDaggers
• Engineer – HammerButCondiSpamIsStillFarMoreViable
• Necromancer – SeeEngiButReplaceHammerWithPistolsOrSomething

I assume it’ll be like this when new weapons happen:
War- Rocket Launchers
Guard- Giant 2Handed Axes 5x Their Size
Ranger- AK47s
Ele- Artifacts That Summon Beasts Like Gigantic Mythical Unicorn Mounts That Shoot Lasers
Engi- Huge Gatling Guns
Necro- Mech Scythe-Gun-Thingys ( http://youtu.be/pYW2GmHB5xs )
Mesmer- Long Bladed Whips
Thief- A Spoon.

Trait: Cereal Killer
Skills with spoons deal 5% more damage
Autoattack:
Just a pinch
1 dmg, progresses to teaspoon

Teaspoon
2 dmg, progresses to tablespoon

Tablespoon
1dmg
inflict might on your opponent

I wish the non-champ ones were still titles like how Slayer is, for those who don’t do tPvP a lot.

Doggie.3184:

I always get bored when I’m playing D/P, personally. It’s a lot easier to kill people with it than other builds, even though I tend to annihilate D/P Thieves with S/D (my favorite in the fun department) really easily. It’s just a safer build with the stealth and you can escape from battle when you need to. I even find D/D more fun, but people seem to not want to deal with missing CnD.

Getting bored of most things though lately. Wondering when I’ll get to use Dagger/Focus or Torch or something new. O_o We need more cheese.

Hidden thief powers unlock dual sword? Dual axes? Dual rifles?

Yeah thanks guys, Ogre is working fine, just dont like the how squishy this set is XD, nothing I cant handle though, thanks again

I will not say it takes no skill, I will not say that its bad, I will say that I personally dont like playing DP because it is arguably easier only due to the fact that you have so much to work with. Actually no, I don’t dislike it for that reason but even still I think its an OU weaponset. It’s not the thief’s fault as you can use everything but regardless it’s still OU. 8/10 thieves in WvW use it. I’ve always liked DD not becuase of the challenge but because it felt right. It’s our iconic weaponset…I just wish it played more iconic… offered the same tricks and traps as DP does

For a PvP trickery, 10/30/0/0/30 what runes are generally the best to go with? I’ve barely played Trickery builds :p Was thinking Lyssa but I feel like those are OU and there is a better option Thanks in advance.

Travlane.5948:

A) your whole idea was based off a false premise (unfairness of “spamming”)

B)we understand it. just not good.

You’re still on about this? How’s about you give input other than the fact that this is based off of spamming which others have already proven that this would, in some cases, actually help the thief instead of hinder it. You seem to /really/ want to get the point across that your against thief nerf threads, understandable, but we get it.

I don’t even know what is going on here… I stopped reading the posts when I realized nobody understood the OP lol so hopefully my post is relevant.

To throw my input in on the OP itself:

I can see it both ways.. Technically it could be a life saver if you think about that one instance where you REALLY needed to be able to do “insert skill name here” and you couldn’t because you only had 1 initiative instead of X amount.. But personally I see it as more of a negative. It’s kind of like getting a bigger desk, or a bigger closet, bigger inventory bags, an extra bank tab, either way they still get chock full of junk and you need more space again.

So either way, once you use that one extra attack you’re still out of initiative and now it will take even longer to regen usable initiative. I think it’s safer to wait 2 more seconds and with awareness usually you can do SOMETHING to save yourself. You’d be surprised how much you can get away with just waiting for initiative regen (as long as it’s not a 1vX).

I think it also would cause more issues with lag. Most people I know will mash the same skill repeatedly to make sure it fires (seen it on youtube vids of GW2 all the time) which is ok when your skill just goes on cooldown and won’t fire twice.
Thief already SHOULDN’T do this but sometimes I have issues where Heartseeker or CnD or something won’t work when I try to use it one time and I have to hit it again, only to heartseeker twice. If this happens when I’m low on initiative and it puts me into negative initiative this could really kitten me up.

@ P Fun Daddy: I disagree. It’s not like it would help you get 2 CnD off to double backstab someone or something because of the revealed debuff and the skills that don’t reveal you you can already use more than once anyways, I don’t see how, for the reasons I stated above, that this would be useful over how initiative already works.

Overall I wouldn’t support this change.

Very valid points actually. Like Interceptor mentioned, it would make good thieves better and learning thieves worse, let alone lag problems.

I’m sorry but playing my fear necro on Skyhammer has proved absolutely hilarious…….but it needs to go

Hm, yeah I’m sorry I’m no frequeter here but regardless that was a nice laid out explanation

On the surface, the Elder Dragons are regarded as evil, destructive. I mean, some of their methods can be catastrophic. But let’s not forget, the Elder Dragons are a natural part of Tyria. Their “ecological niche” seems to be to balance the amount of magic in the environment. Once the magic is at a high, they awaken, consume it, and then slumber as it leaks out of their bodies in wait for the cycle to begin again. Here are the exact words in the interview posted a few days ago in another thread. My question is, I don’t think most of Tyria realizes this (correct me if I’m wrong by all means). I completely understand their wanting to rid the world of the dragons, let’s be honest, they do their job in a cataclysmic fashion. However, when something of importance is taken from its natural environment, that usually results in negative consequences. Ultimately, if all of the Elder Dragons were slain, what would happen if the magic built too high? Are the Elder Dragons absolutely essential for the planet’s natural order? Would there be worse problems if they were gone? Is lobster better than crab legs?

Arius.7031:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Zhaitan%27s_Size.png

Have you fought Teq? If so, look at this chart, and tell me again that Zhaitan is small… lol

Konig beat you to it…he beat me to it…he beats everyone to it

Luke.4562:

Is this a public declaration of Necrophilism?

Naughty, bad! Bad Luke! Necromancers already have enough stereotypes

I mean, there have been builds but as a weapon, the shortbow is more of a utility since the arrows are slow and by default it’s autoattack is relatively weak. Warriors HS can keep up with the damage. Cluster bomb is too slow. It has it’s combat purposes but as a solo weapon I doubt it’s viable.

I wish.

Karolis.4261:

RedSpectrum.1975:

alchemyst.2165:

Also I see your point but its basically that if I have utilities and I think I can defeat the opponent I will stay on them, because I know my utilities will buy me enough time to do a slight reset on the fight. If I have nothing left it’s hard for me to run away.

So you’re basically saying what’s the point? Either way I’m screwed. In that case I’d imagine it’s situational. You and Karolis are giving different examples of it being implemented though, or rather, he’s thinking of it more in an offensive fashion and you are thinking of it in a defensive fashion.
Offensively, it seems it would allow more damage to be done at the cost of a longer wait to do anything else

Defensively, if you had no utilites to follow up, it would seem worthless and potentially ruin you as you won’t have a CnD to chain stealth to wait off a CD, if I understood you correctly?

Actually i am looking at this defensively. That CnD from borrowed initiative may give you time to get some distance while stealthed and even maybe buy enough time for some utilities to get off cooldown to save your kitten . All im trying to say that this wouldn’t be a nerf in no possible way.

Ah then I apologize, I misunderstood

Yasha.5963:

This is such a funny thread, I know you thieves are just cunningly conspiring to get a stealth buff, I see through your devious plan.

But..but…but…um…thief and buff don’t go in the same sentence?.. ._.