Guild Wars 2

Sanduskel.1850:

i can’t see how we are a dying class. I continue to see plenty of thieves on my server.

Ask yourself, there is no way to know unless you ask everyone, but how many consider the thief their main? I could be in my necromancer and someone make the observation that there was a necromancer here so they aren’t the only one, yet I consider myself a thief.

It saddens me that we are indeed a dying class. With each update you cannot blame them, it doesn’t make sense why I should have to cross my fingers not for some amazing new skill or trait, but to not get nerfed even more. This is deep but, I imagine us thieves around a camp fire, a large camp fire, at least, it started out as large and it is now dwindling. One by one, one thief gets up and walks away into the darkness followed by another. Most leave, a couple stay behind. Goodbye Zacchary, I’ll miss your gifs :‘( If you ever decide to come back into the darkness I’ll have your spot warmed up for you

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Scythes-for-thieves-D/first#post3050503

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Scythes-for-necromancers-D/first#post3050167

Pretty much theory crafted a new weapon for thief and necro, not flawless but I would love to see them
Holy crud that was post # 3050503 what does it meeeeaaaaaannnn

teg.1340:

900 range leap for 3 ini, stealth for 2 ini, block, spike damage, condition damage, immob, blind, condition stripping, blinding, knock back, …

sounds like the most op weapon set I’ve ever seen. well done, sir!

Whoops, I was thinking about DD for a second, I meant to use HS’s range :p, and the stealth isnt for 2 initiative only, you have to enter the block first, which costs 4 good sir, but I do admit, a near spammable knockback is OP…hmmm

rastaman.1462:

My kingdom for a Scythe! I don’t mean if it will be a power or condi weapon (oh well i would prefer a cleave weapon btw). I love your suggestion about skills except for the #5, 3 second aoe fear on a terrormancer with 100% fear duration it would be just LOL.

Haha, yeah I just realized this, seeing as how Reaper Protection as it stands procs the longest fear :p idk if this would synergize with a fear build though, would definitely be interesting to see if it could, IF WE COULD HAVE A SCYTHE

Lightsbane.9012:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Lightsbane.9012:

i love this idea, but i’d prefer it to be a power weapon. absolutely love the last skill suggestion and i don’t think it’s overpowered at all. just look at warrior’s fear me.

Thank you for the feedback Yeah my goal was to make it a power based weapon but as for the numbers I was a little unsure :S and for the skill Blood Loss, even though it says it in the description, it does in fact NOT cause bleeding. the idea was that they’ve lost so much that they are dizzy. but I you have any suggestive tweaks Ill by happy to edit them

no i was referring to red rain

Ah I see what you mean. A skill focused on one build is rather sub-par, perhaps I can tweak the dmg, afterall compared to HB it is rather weak :p

Daerian.6523:

RedSpectrum.1975:

since thieves essentially are assassin/ninja archetypes, and it will be the quickest two handed melee weapon.

What does scythe have in common with ninja or assassins? Are you sure you are not thinking about kama (which is pretty much japanese sicle)?

Redscope.6215:

When it makes it in, the scythe will be a war, nec, mes weapon… that’s my prediction.

And Guardian. Cause Dervishes from GW1 ;-)

a t s e.9614:

Skythe is for fast atacks .

Scythe is slow, polearm type weapon.

Withing contexts of the game, how one uses a scythe really doesn’t matter, I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJvT6nUVfE
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU72AbJEjvU

examples of fast scythe usage or ninja scything in gaming. Literally went to youtube for like 2 seconds and found these :p

Lightsbane.9012:

i love this idea, but i’d prefer it to be a power weapon. absolutely love the last skill suggestion and i don’t think it’s overpowered at all. just look at warrior’s fear me.

Thank you for the feedback Yeah my goal was to make it a power based weapon but as for the numbers I was a little unsure :S and for the skill Blood Loss, even though it says it in the description, it does in fact NOT cause bleeding. the idea was that they’ve lost so much that they are dizzy. but I you have any suggestive tweaks Ill by happy to edit them

A made a thread on the thief forums about how, in my opinion, scythes should be introduced and given to two classes: Thief and Necromancer Scythes For Thieves. Thief mainly because a scythe is a ninja weapon in various media but ultimately, the necromancer should wield this fantastic weapon So before I go on, this is indeed a melee two-hander, I also speculate that if introduces, it will be the fastest of the two handed melee weapons, and it can cleave up to three targets. I please urge you to read the thief version first as, like with daggers, the scythe moves are similar to an extent I also tried to give you guys mobility Constructive Criticism is welcome to avoid amazing OPness
Scythe
Dark Swipe300 (1/3)
Range: 130
Swing your scythe in a horizontal motion, becomes Dark Harvest.

Dark Harvest 315 (1/3)
Range: 130
Do a quick 360 degree spin with your scythe, slicing across your foe’s middle, becomes Soul Reap.

Soul Reap 430 (1/2)
Range: 130
Life force gain: 100%>-2% LF, 50%>-4%LF, 25%>- 6%LF
Finish with a downward slash on your opponent, steal life force as your foe gets weaker.

#2 Red Rain 800 (x5) 2 1/2(Duration)
Cooldown: 7s
Bleeding: 5 stacks (8s)-1300dmg
Blind: 2 seconds
Range: 130
Blind your foe, then follow up with a flurry of slashes, bleeding your foe with each successful hit. Roots.

#3 Blood Loss 410 (1/4)
Cooldown: 17 seconds
Daze: 2s
Range: 130
A extremely quick slash with your scythe to major arteries, causing massive blood loss and fatigue(daze).

#4Become the Dark 390
Cooldown: 35 seconds: no target hit
25 seconds: target hit
Immobilize: 2 seconds
Torment: 2 stacks (3s): 225 is still, 450 if moving
Range: 1000
Melt into the ground, becoming a swift shadow and moving toward your foe, inflicting immobilize and torment.

#5 Fear the Reaper 450 (3)
Cooldown: 45 seconds
Fear: 3 seconds if Life Force is above 50%
Chill: 5 seconds if Life Force is below 50%
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast
Do ritualistic movements with your scythe, ending in a 360 degree spin. Cause AOE Fear if LF is above 50%, AOE Chill if LF is 50% or lower.

Redscope.6215:

When it makes it in, the scythe will be a war, nec, mes weapon… that’s my prediction.

Okay if warrior gets scythe and not thief, that will be the mark to make me quit this game

Stx.4857:

Whatever class can use a scythe ill reroll instantly lol. Thief would be really cool, but Id rather have it on my necro.

I figured it would be a necro centric weapon but if any two classes could use it I would think these two

Sanduskel.1850:

It’s not a bad build if you play smartly.

Sanduskel, you’re pro any build that doesn’t use stealth -_-

Valvador.4291:

RedSpectrum.1975:

You answered your own question pretty much. Unless you use that thiefsmer build, you’re going to be spamming unload, which isn’t that powerful. Now then, let’s assume you aren’t condi specced, the auto attack is rather laughable, so this means your main source of damage is coming from Unload. Nothing wrong with that…or is there? See Unload essentially becomes your bread and butter attack for P/P, not the auto attack, unless you use condi specs, but you normally wouldnt be doing P/P anyway. Back to the point, your bread and butter attack isn’t your auto attack, which means it uses initiative, which means that if you want to use any of the other moves that quite frankly have no synergy with your bread and butter attack (Unload in case we forgot), you have to sacrifice some initiative, which means less unloading and more lolpewing. That’s the problem, no synergy, little damage, and too slow it seems: no built in evade or stealth like literally every other weapon set the thief has.

I appreciate the explanation. I haven’t had much one on one time with this build in one on one operations. I am usually in combat and am relying on my utilities and dodges to get out of the way.

However with S/D I’m either using flanking string to string boons, or spamming 2 to teleport, or 5 to attempt to daze or heal.

With Dagger Pistol I am only really using Blinding Powder to stealth and then backstab.

I don’t know if saying that “relying on Unload” is really that bad of a thing especially if it’s your primary way of doing damage. And what makes you say that it’s not that great of a burst utility? Because it’s easy to read and dodge?

It’s not that great at bursting because for one its power is a ways from being on par with backstab in the least, and also because a lot of the damage can be mitigated by sheer means of evasion.

Comparing D/P with P/P is a flase comparison because D/P moves have synergy. You have a blinding smoke field which can cast stealth if you use a leap finisher, which D/P just happened to have: heatseeker

You have an on demand interrupt: headshot, heartseeker for finalizing kills, shadow shot for gap closing and backstab for massive damage. And when you are in between attacks, you have your auto attack for bread and butter damage.

P/P, power wise, you kinda just have unload to deal damage. Yeah you can use your other attacks, but let’s not forget, initiative spending

You answered your own question pretty much. Unless you use that thiefsmer build, you’re going to be spamming unload, which isn’t that powerful. Now then, let’s assume you aren’t condi specced, the auto attack is rather laughable, so this means your main source of damage is coming from Unload. Nothing wrong with that…or is there? See Unload essentially becomes your bread and butter attack for P/P, not the auto attack, unless you use condi specs, but you normally wouldnt be doing P/P anyway. Back to the point, your bread and butter attack isn’t your auto attack, which means it uses initiative, which means that if you want to use any of the other moves that quite frankly have no synergy with your bread and butter attack (Unload in case we forgot), you have to sacrifice some initiative, which means less unloading and more lolpewing. That’s the problem, no synergy, little damage, and too slow it seems: no built in evade or stealth like literally every other weapon set the thief has.

Rennoko.5731:

Afya.5842:

If I understand right, it shows the real dps every second? Or something else? I have yet to test it.
If it is, what’s the number you get?

It just lumps each condition into its own floater per second. So you see a bleed floater for all your bleeds summed, a floater for poison, a floater for burn etc.

So you can see upwards of 2k for a bleed floater with enough stacks.

Personally…. I oddly find it bad. One of the ways I could tell when to epidemic was the rate at which numbers were exploding out of someone… now I have to pay close attention to what that number on the bleed floater reads or their debuff bar. I expect to go back to the old floater system.

If I recall the patch notes right, you can turn them off

I have accepted that the scythe will probably not be in this game, especially since they have a skin for it, but I can dream right? So I figured if their was a two handed weapon introduced that thieves could use ( and necros), it would be scythe, since thieves essentially are assassin/ninja archetypes, and it will be the quickest two handed melee weapon. I’ll try to go into actual numbers (taking into consideration attack speed and what not) but I could whip up a few conditions and initiative costs as my main goal is to start the train running, if anything seems OP feel free to correct it but don’t get kitten, it’s not even real…yet, and this does cleave up to three targets suggestions are welcome Necromancer Scythe:
Scythe
Auto attack:
Scythe swipe 220 (1/3)
Range: 130
Swing your scythe in a quick horizontal motion. Becomes Harvest.

Harvest 220 (1/3)
Range:130
A quick 360 spin with your scythe in a horizontal motion, becomes Reap.

Reap 300 (1/2)
Blood (3s): 165 dmg
Range:130
Finish with a downward slash down the middle of your foe, inflicts bleeding.

Stealth
Umbra Slash 450 (1/4)
Range:130
Torment (3s): 123 if still, 247 if moving
Reap your foe from the shadows, dealing damage and inflicting torment.

#2 Rake(3/4):
3 initiative
Damage:200
Range: 450
Vulnerability: 2 stacks (4s)
Combo Finisher: Leap
Do a swift dash toward your foe, sweeping up with your scythe and inflicting vulnerability.

#3(A) Gyro (1/2)
4 initiative
Damage: 260
Range:130
Slice your foe followed by a quick evasion toward their opposite side, becomes False Mercy.

#3 (B) False Mercy(1/2)
2 initiative
Damage: 235
Range: 130
Tap your scythe tip into your foe, transferring 1 condition to them.

#4 Achluophobia (1/4)
4 initiative
Damage: 350
Range: 900
Max # of targets: 3
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Immobilize: (1.5s)
Slice blades of darkness toward your foe inflicting immobilizing them. Bounces between targets.

#5(A) Feint
4 initiative
Damage: 520
Block Duration: 2s
Range: 130
Raise your scythe to block the next attack, if blocked follow up with a powerful sweep, can be broken prematurely for Phantom Blade.

#5(B) Phantom Blade (1/2)
2 initiative
Damage: 530
Stealth: 3s
Blindness: 2s
Range:130
An extremely quick spin slashing your opponent while shrouding shadows over yourself. Stealth.

I like how it’s clear your main goal is to nerf stealth, common complaint. But you offer no stat changes to make up for it. If the thief stayed the same, 5 seconds of revealed would be disgustingly atrocious to their health. And revealed when stealth ends doesn’t make it any better. So now you want to punish those who need to heal right? God forbid last refuge procs…..

Silly OP you mean ‘guerilla’ but I do agree that we have to rely on stealth too much. It’s one thing if it gives us access to our most hard hitting attacks with the exception of the sword, that honor goes to LS, but, ok let’s put it this way: Beginner thief’s Cloak and Dagger: 3 stacks of vulnerability, stealth for 3 seconds
My cloak and dagger: 3 stacks of vulnerability, stealth for 4 seconds, regenerate health for 4 seconds, next attack is a critical hit, cure one condition on hit and another after 3 seconds, restore 2 initiative

Same here it is not just you, I just got it.

He said initiative

Barfoi.9537:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well if you go dual pistols you are almost certainly going to be using unload most often, which roots you

…? Moving will not cancel the channeling.

My fault, I had a brain lock :p which is sad because right before i posted this I was lighting up the flame effigy like a christmas tree

Well its disheartening for players to want to improve when they give it there all and the opponent laughs it off one way or the other, thats not me personally but I can understand the mentality

Well if you go dual pistols you are almost certainly going to be using unload most often, which is your bread and butter dmg, that usues initiative. If you use any other skill besides the auto attack you’ll use initiative which then cant be used for your #3 which has no added effect besides direct dmg. Shortbow on the other hand, while arguably weaker, has an aoe, on demand blast finisher, built in evade, up to 30s poison field and a shadow step. Why would you pass that up in WvW

Edit: lol

Bweaty.9187:

Only Plague works under water. Plague is also the condi based one. (Tho it’s AoE blind and nice stats boost while up has it’s situations for Power based builds too)

Litch, is your power build focused single target pew pew.

Golem isn’t affected by your gear etc. So awesome while leveling as you don’t ‘need’ to keep such sexy gear if your pet dose the work for you.
DON’T GET WET. He dies!
He will bug out HEAPS, usual trick is to move a few steps and auto attack again. One of the clipping/pathing bugs he dose, actually can work to your favor. Getting him to charge a WvW door, will make him do full charge damage in 1 spot.
P.S. he’s pretty ugly.

Not Just that, if he charges into a wall period its stationary, so if you catch an enemy npc or player in that full charge, it’s just downright devastating

Okay, after using all elite skills, let me first ask, why D/D? If you want melee i’d suggest D/WH or D/F since an offhand dagger is for conditions. But back to the point, you seem to be power based, so lich form isnt all too bad for you as the #1 skill hits hard for power builds, as well as its other attacks. Plague form is really used for condi builds since it spreads conditions. But my favorite is the flesh golem as it brings something for every build. It will be your melee buddy for close combat fighting, or even if youre a condi necro, he can keep cripples up to kite foes and knock them down giving you more opportunity to deal more damage to your incapacitated foe, from melee attacks or conditions.

Wolfield.9812:

Mesmer steal is the best. Stability. Done.

Actually I find it depends on who youre fighting really, thieves, then blinding tuft is best since it usually comes down to who stealths longest, guardains, mace head crack locks them from using life saving skills, mesmer is just good all around, elementalist keeps them slow and DRAMATICALLY lengthens CD on their skills and attunements, throw gunk is meh, the warrior steal is cool because if you set them up with your Black Powder, then you can safely use the axe while they are swinging about hitting nothing. The ranger steal is great team support as it heals a bit and cleanses conditions, which in this current meta, is a necessity. The necro fear is good as well, I use it to give me the time needed to finalize a kill on a necro of take that time to strip them out of death shroud

^^Thats actually very cool how even her skin color matches the armor color scheme

I feel like most thieves already hit hard in pve regardless of the build

Excalibur.9748:

S/D thief hate just exploded in the last week or so…I don’t even.

Well let’s look at it, D/D got hate(lolbackstab), D/P got hate(lolstealth), S/P got hate(lolpistolwhip), Ive even seen P/D get hate(lolstealthcondi). Only ones left are SB(lol) and S/D really(lolevades), oh and P/P but those thiefmers will take care of that(lolconfusion).

Stx.4857:

It was OP when it was a stunbreaker. Now that its not, it is perfectly fine. No reason to nerf it at all.

It deals no damage and costs a decent amount of initiative.

Adding some clarification in case some new thieves read this, when Stx says deals no damage, he means it deals a small amount, it still does damage.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Is the bug that cancels out your glow intensity when using one of these kits still around? Because I would very much like to give one of my Sylvari a new style but don’t want to lose the glow :-/

Dear Riot Inducer, does this answer your question? I LOVE this new hair

Im going to say no since it literally looks JUST like the cultural t3 heavy helm, just with some flowers on the side

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Donari.5237:

You shouldn’t, a guildie of mine just changed her glow today. I changed my main vari’s hair and glow right after that glitch was fixed, and my new vari started apple red mushroom head and is now lichen green with a front comb-over. Brightest glow on both, and they shiiiiine at night.

So you -can- worry about it, but it’s not mandatory Also note that my newer vari got the makeover kit bright teal to tip her leaves, so new kit-only things didn’t bork the glow.

Thanks

Of course I want to try the new hairs tmrw, but before there was that old- and I do hope, old glitch where they would lose their glow, I wont have to worry about this right?

Then I misunderstood since I knew you were smart enough to know a shortbow cannot kill those guys and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative
you get back 6 initiative not 12 or 15, using CnD of Black Powder then RFI does not count as full init regen :p

nuuuuu not caithe, she inspired my sylvari to be a thief herself (even though it was pre chosen)

Sylvari can be thieves too

Littlefeather.8623:

The problem is your using a cookie cutter build or relying on stealth too much…

Try someting outside of the box, try stealthless build, try range instead of putting yourself in harm with melee…

I run P/P with basilisk which usually takes them down to half, than a few traits/runes kick in for extra damage at 50%, than ice drake venom for a few seconds of chill slow/cooldown increase time which is under rated. Than I have my way with them at 900 range, if they do get close, no problem.

Roll for Initiative is a lifesavers in itself, 1 for full initiative refill, and the other for the nice evade, if they close the gap again, Just pop Withdraw for evade version 2, this time with heal. If they continue to close gaps, take full advantage of you 3 dodge rolls with 6 seconds swiftness… Or shortbow out.

If you get killed 1v1 in PvP its kinda your own fault :/

1. I switch between stealth and evasion builds and have fought these guys with both
2. RFI Isn’t a full initiative refill but it is a stun break, there is one
3. Shortbow is too weak for these guys its like killing someone with bug bites as Kal Reegar says so informatively, only reall good thing is the poison field really, but im sure they can keep the stuns up to wear them off
4. Okay but I wouldn’t want to waste a heal for dodging- “okay then eat the stun then your choice” okay I’ll use withdraw then oh look more stuns and sword #2 isnt a break anymore
5. Most importantly what most seem to not be seeing, time does not stop for everyone, while im dodging around all over the place like a graceful gazelle and showing off my nice acrobatics, the warrior is a) healing b) shedding CD time

Bhawb.7408:

Because there is something comical about a spectral sperm.

Bhawb, I’ve respected you up until this point, now I cant unsee it.

Doggie.3184:

Thieves are the masters of all weapons in reality. They just have amnesia currently.
They need to remember their Assassin roots.

“The bullet goes..here right?”
“No, it goes here in the loading chamber, for the third time.”
“Right and I point and shoot -shoots rifle-”
“WTF MY LEG SUNOVA-”
“Well I still know how to pull a trigger, can we try the axe next?”

Perhaps due to the fact that those wraiths hold sentience whereas shadow fiends are not sentient. Necromancers spawn mindless minions, not minions that possess reason and thought

I love the thief, hate me if you want but I do. I like the speed, I love the mobility, I love the ability to disappear at will. A lot of fights take much more effort to win on my end than it does for my enemy, so when I win, I love the rewarding feeling. I like being underestimated and I like stealing things….take that last one how you want it.

Zacchary.6183:

Roll a stunlock warrior.

But den when another faceroll build comes I’ll have to roll THAT one

I personally think HiS is fine as is, I see your logic but Shadow’s Rejuvenation helps with torment, but to each their own. Not that im saying I wont welcome the change if it comes

Because HiS explicitly states that it removes burning, poison and bleeding. Torment is torment, not burning poison or bleeding. However if you trait for shadows embrace (which you should in the current meta), HiS will remove torment either instantly or after 3 seconds. Don’t forget, Torment is new, HiS was there since the beginning. With traits, HiS is already a powerful healing skill, not in terms of outright healing per say (ignoring rejuvenation) but in everything else it fixes for the thief and sets up the thief to do

My face when (old pic)

minizero.1432:

Something that was not mentioned above is the OPness of cluster bomb spam, as a blast finisher.
I believe it is one of the only spammable blast finisher, thus you can with i.e. a warrior fire field, stack around 15-20 might on your grp by yourself.
This is a pve godsend!

great uses i have found:
*spam on fire for mass might
*spam on water field to heal your whole group
*spam on shadow field for a good 10 sec on invisibility (use your smoke screen sit on top of it, spam cluster bomb). If done right you can stay invisible a good 30-40 sec, by chaining that + SR etc.

*ethereal field for area chaos armor

It offers a ranged weapon with good utility: built in evade, nice aoe damage and a 30 second poison (if the stay in for the duration) and a shadow step. Its, well, the safer ranged weapon rather than pistols since it offers so much. It lets the thief tag multiple enemies in an event with aoe, get out of dire situations via the evade which is spammable and gives crippled so its a two hit wonder right there, and the infiltrators arrow. It’s only true drawback is the the auto attack, it hits three people, but the scale of its relatively low-power versus its long “cast” leaves something to be desired….personally

Kolly.9872:

I play both Warrior and Thief at the moment in tPvP only and I have to admit that I have an easy time on my warrior thatn on my thief, even tho I main thief since beta and warrior since 3 months.
I think you can beat an hammer mace\shield warrior with healing signet using some of the common tournment thief specs (S\D 10 30 0 30 0, 10 0 0 30 30 or 0 30 0 30 10) but it will require a Greater effort and you will have to greatly outplay the warrior,
on the other hand the warrior requires much less effort to be succesfull with in tournments.
Unfortunately in this game some many fotm classes have not realy drawbacks if they miss something like an AoE or CC, cooldowns are nonesxistance for many classes and they can try to AoE or CC after few seconds.
It’s crazy to see how many noob warriors in tPvP just spam stuns and CC on people with stability on but they don’t pay anything for their bad gameplay cos they can keep spamming CC 24\7.

Basically this is what I have experienced as well. I have to put in so much effort, relatively, to kill someone on my thief as opposed to by other classes, and they call us noobs