Guild Wars 2

The comp stacking can get a little crazy, but I can’t argue with Anet based on taste

kdaddy.5431:

NA is a joke and the scene constantly destroys itself.
It’s pathethic. They could have elevated the game to such a higher state on their side, finally getting some proper competition rather than the dumb circlejerk they have but no, the egos of a bunch of underachievers is way too important so they continue to destroy what they have.
Meanwhile the top of eu all have 150+ games now, actively try to snipe eachother to have games as competitive as possible and discourage alt accounting and qing in odd times. (see; the treatment of zapddos and blackjack who are the only people who legit try to do what you guys do, funny that the most hated (and banned) team of eu basically just does standard NA actions)
The same was seen when the guild ladder leaderboard was out – all NA teams started trying to farm it in all the most dishonest bs ways possible. When carcrash decided to do the same on europe the EU scene decided to just do inhouses and scrims so that there was healthy competition while freezing CC out and shutting down this behavior.
Everyone on that leaderboard part of the problem while doing this and I’ve spoken to p much everyone on there about it. The problem is from the top down since NOBODY on NA will actively try to take a stance for making your own scene better. That is your job to do. Instead, you kitten up your own ladder and then come to EU ladder in a sad attempt to kitten it up aswell.
Grow up, all of you. If you spent half the time you did finding out ways to ruin your own community on getting good instead maybe you would have produced more than a single good team that had amazing record of going 4-10 vs eu teams in games in 2016.

Exedore.6320:

Your tier pretty much means nothing except for legendary and maybe platinum. Stop worrying about it.

At silver/bronze I’d feel like pacman with a power pill in the land of ghosts XD

Obtena.7952:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Obtena.7952:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Obtena.7952:

Exedore.6320:

Gwaihir.1745:

Why should you be given a second chance when you failed to evade it the first time?

1/4sec cast time is not reasonably avoidable. The only way to avoid it is to guess at when it will be used. It’s unblockable, so you can’t stop it that way either.

Then maybe Anet thinks it’s unreasonable to avoid it …

The bold part is where you went wrong.

Really? Enlighten me … how do you know what Anet thinks should be happening here? Seems to me that this makes plenty of sense. There is counterplay to the pull … so I don’t really get what the problem here is. People don’t want to counterplay? In PvP, you don’t have much choice do you.

No no no, you misunderstand. The error is the assumption that Anet put any thought into it at all XD

Whoever makes the claim is burdened with the proof! :D

No, I don’t misunderstand when players don’t get something, they assume it’s a mistake on Anet’s part. That’s pretty common among people that think they know better what Anet’s intentions are … more than Anet themselves. Perhaps people need to step back and think a little about their own assumptions for why Anet put a cast time on Spear because the base virtue is insta … it’s certainly not a mistake they added a cast time and there are methods to counterplay it.

A more reasonable approach would be to question the length of cast time, not assume that the cast time duration they added intentionally was a mistake in the first place. Now, feel free to have a discussion with that base assumption and JUST maybe, you guys will have something Anet will listen to you about.

Personally I’ve never questioned Anet’s design on DH. I’ll happily stipulate the “balance” was created with PvE in mind though. I’ll also forward, based on experience, that Spear is one of the many OP HoT skills introduced to PvP without propper care for the game mode :). I’ll also affirm that, based on history, Anet DOES have a strong tendency to create/introduce/change things without much, if any thought. But I’ll give you and Anet the benefit of the doubt on this one and say Anet did put a ton of thought into Spear. In which case, why is it so horribly OP and why hasnt it been toned down properly yet? Assuming Anet does listen (we’ve got reason to believe they do based on history- I mean, eventually. Usually after a few years and a ton of grief) I’m sure Spear is slated for a good nerf at some point regardless.

:D

What’s the point in maintaining a status if you’re going to opt out of playing the game?

If you obtain something (silver status) but can’t genuinely maintain it, doesn’t that undermine the worth you place in it?

Is it therefor purely about aesthetics? In which case why are you so wrapped up about the importance of leader boards and solo’q’s?

About DH’s. I get nervous whenever I have a stack of DH’s on my team. DH can perform, but since it’s the class so many plebs are drawn to, I don’t know that I can rely on them to do it.

How’s this for a balanced matchup. 2x war, 2x nec, 1x DH on each team. Only my team won 500 – 300. Stacking of some classes can make a huge difference (two good eles) but the “stacking” of good players is far more important.

Obtena.7952:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Obtena.7952:

Exedore.6320:

Gwaihir.1745:

Why should you be given a second chance when you failed to evade it the first time?

1/4sec cast time is not reasonably avoidable. The only way to avoid it is to guess at when it will be used. It’s unblockable, so you can’t stop it that way either.

Then maybe Anet thinks it’s unreasonable to avoid it …

The bold part is where you went wrong.

Really? Enlighten me … how do you know what Anet thinks should be happening here? Seems to me that this makes plenty of sense. There is counterplay to the pull … so I don’t really get what the problem here is. People don’t want to counterplay? In PvP, you don’t have much choice do you.

No no no, you misunderstand. The error is the assumption that Anet put any thought into it at all XD

Whoever makes the claim is burdened with the proof! :D

Soothsayer.9206:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Soothsayer.9206:

if any of this, even in part, is true, then sPvP could be in real trouble; it’s a shame really! why not just relegate f2p alts to unranked prohibiting them in ranked altogether, couple that with a full MMR reset at the beginning of each season? wouldn’t this make people to have to earn their top spot? couldn’t these things help minimize match manipulation in a large degree? disturbing allegations if true.

This is a nice idea. However long time GW2 players, or the heavily invested ones doing this sort of thing, own multiple full copies of the game. You can own alt accounts without them being f2p.

wow, totally forgot about that! now that you bring it up, why in the world would someone spend extra real money on alt accounts (real GW2 accounts are not cheap especially with HoT expansion)? do people really go through that much trouble? for what purpose? anyway, thanks! was just thinking that something is better than nothing.

There was a time before HoT when GW2 was on a super sale. This was back in my WvW days, and because of the way servers worked, I knew a lot of players who brought multiple extra accounts so they could futs around with alt accounts on enemy servers.

Every now and again there’s a sale. What’s a few bucks to a gamer? I spent all of $100 on this game for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of hours of entertainment XD

Soothsayer.9206:

if any of this, even in part, is true, then sPvP could be in real trouble; it’s a shame really! why not just relegate f2p alts to unranked prohibiting them in ranked altogether, couple that with a full MMR reset at the beginning of each season? wouldn’t this make people to have to earn their top spot? couldn’t these things help minimize match manipulation in a large degree? disturbing allegations if true.

This is a nice idea. However long time GW2 players, or the heavily invested ones doing this sort of thing, own multiple full copies of the game. You can own alt accounts without them being f2p.

Kuya.6495:

The gist of it was that allegedly, the NA top leaderboards are full of players queue dodging, throwing matches and paying people to d/c to avoid losing rating, and they have since moved to the EU leaderboards to try to do the same thing. Apparently, in EU this behavior is less tolerated. According to Helseth this behavior is why NA has less skilled players than EU.

http://www.bandicam.com/ has a free version that allows for 10 minute chunks of recording, if you don’t have any cash or access to shadowplay. Not ideal, but its easy to use and will do the job.

Obtena.7952:

Exedore.6320:

Gwaihir.1745:

Why should you be given a second chance when you failed to evade it the first time?

1/4sec cast time is not reasonably avoidable. The only way to avoid it is to guess at when it will be used. It’s unblockable, so you can’t stop it that way either.

Then maybe Anet thinks it’s unreasonable to avoid it …

The bold part is where you went wrong.

If I remember rightly (someone correct me if I’m wrong) a fire shield will also detonate when replaced by a new fire shield. So by chaining fire shield procs together (by either the crit effect, leap, blast, or rune etc) you can continue to pop them.

Gwaihir.1745:

K not going to sit here and whine because you can’t understand how quite literally direct my answer was. If you can’t understand it that’s your problem. Good day.

My answer was vastly superior to yours :D

;D

So Unblockables go through both blocks and reflects.

Projectile Destruction is a third category because technically it is not a “block” (as per shield or aegis) and it does not reflect the projectile. But in terms of game mechanics it is considered a block for all intents and purposes pertaining to projectiles with unblockable status.

Don’t start a new mesmer. The game doesnt work that way. Continue to level.

I’ll leave the rest up to the PvE…. well the PvE’rs of the world.

Famine.7915:

Yes let’s talk “logic”. You should be able to dodge a kittening chain already wrapped around you.

Wait, someone wants to talk logic?

Should we even be raising the question of how an arrow fired from a bow flies any amount of distance with a metal chain attached?

~“Hi, Physics here, I’d like my two cents kitten.” XD

If there were a campaign to drive players away from the game, these would be the clips to kick it off.

Cheers EU! :D

Things you need to understand (I’m oceanic btw so my bias is A++)

1) EU and all people represented there are beacons of holy light, and the moral compass by which all humanity finds it’s way.

2) NA players are not only evil, but they’re trash players incapable of raising above a level with the ground to be able to even SEE the shoes of the godly EU players.

3) Source for these facts can be found on any random internet forum where GW2 players frequent. Such truths are stated over and over again by a vast number, albeit variety of EU players, therefor you know it’s wholly correct.

4) Because of EU’s moral superiority, no other source is necessary. Rest assured you can take their word for it.

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone is complaining about the health of clones and phantasms for this paragraph right here. With the number of DH, Wars (power and condi), overload air, scrappers and just general cleave in a team fight most clones don’t even reach their target with superspeed as they’re already dead.

But mesmers role is not being in the team fight

What I find hilarious is that the only reason Mesmer doesn’t fit in a team fight is because the clone mechanic in the face of all the team fight aoe and cleave is what keeps them out of it. Remove the problem, alter and ultimately open up (diversify) the roles mesmer can manage.

Anet, or their Overlords NCsoft

XD

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1

This is false. Every class has multiple viable builds. Just because you have created some arbitrary reason to exclude other builds just to suit your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s as bad as you think.

I get what you’re trying to say. I mean, I run either a power shatter chrono, power lockdown chrono, interrupt condi chrono, power rifle berserker, or a p/p thief when I’m playing. And yet, I understand and am honest enough to admit that these builds and this approach is limited and severely lacking in the world of META.

People can and do run whatever they want. But the devs have not balanced the game to make a diverse number of equally competitive builds across the classes and the subsequent roles of conquest. This is the whole point, and exists objectively beyond the reaches of my personal opinions, and regardless of if you want to ignore the nuance of the argument or not XD

sephiroth.4217:

His stream proved what many have said and that’s a lot of players are clueless to PvP and are keeping average players dragged down.

Credit to him for seeing things from the low side, you can see his allies are very inexperienced and that the majority of them very well could be keeping a few average players down in the cracks of the system, so Thanks Helseth.

None of this would be a problem if personal score/contribution credited bonus points to increase gains, and soften defeats.

X points for a win, lets say 10.

a D, C, B, A rank awarded based on your performance (score = offense + defence + support – deaths etc) awarding 0, 10, 20, 30 respectively. Rank = pre-determined score ranges. Rank is averages over the performance of duo-Q’rs (so both have to perform or they pull eachother down).

X points for a loss, say 40

a D, C, B, A rank awarded based on performance as above, but, 0, 9, 18, 36 respectively. So kitten performers drop the full 40, and great performers that still lose only lose 4 points.

Desertion = instant 40 point loss, desensitizing leaving/giving up at any point.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Those that say we should delete specializations, I really have to wonder if they played pvp prior to HoT. There was a time where only 2-3 of the classes were even considered viable to play at all. Now at least every class has build that can be fun and competitive within the realm of the game. I never count pro builds because that is a different branch of play then if you’re queuing ranked or unranked.

MOST of PvP history pre-HoT had no variety, not just of builds but of classes played due to imbalance, OP’ness (celeEle a fav example), etcetc. However there was the small window post the trait revamp and pre-HoT that had the most amount of diversity PvP has ever seen, both of class distribution and build variety. Some builds were the strongest (meta) choices, but a sufficiently skilled player could take a number of variations (depending on the class) and compete. This included a variety of roll changes for some classes.

Roll diversity under HoT is at an all time low. Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1 as zero is the equivalent of deletion XD ). All HoT has is class diversity, and even then people are continually arguing X, Y, Z, class doesn’t cut it under various circumstances (Thief for example, or many classes without the propper team comp running the required meta builds).

So please, enlighten us to the history you’re talking about. Clearly only you played this game pre-Hot XD

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Yeah so we can go back to pre-Hot where you either played an ele or you where subpar.

The current meta has no more and no less meta builds than any other meta.

He didn’t say add back in celestials….

Because celestial wasn’t the only problem core has nor was it even the biggest.

I’m sorry but people need to take off the rose colored glasses. Core classes are flawed. Some of the core classes lack the most basic of tools while others are drowning in tools. Core meta would be no diverse than the current meta.

Under core you could build meta counters that weren’t themselves instantly and utterly deleted by the rest of the meta. Elite meta does though. This is objectively why deleting elite specs will open up diversity.

~Who throws a shoe, honestly? XD

Do you have any idea how much complaining it takes to generate a single nerf?

And you want to undo all that effort?

For shame.

Poelala.2830:

I find it hilarious that people say THE ONE THING ELE CAN DO is overpowered. You clearly are very ignorant of the game mechanics and ele mechanics if you don’t know how to kill one.

So the one thing an ele CAN DO is sustain itself and it’s team. Yet apparently they’re an easy kill…

con•tra•dict (k?n?tr?-d?kt?)?

v.
To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
v.
To deny the statement of. See Synonyms at deny.
v.
To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.

XD

If they’d just die instead of dragging out the fight, and burning all the cc’s in the world just to have a shot at doing the job, then maybe they wouldn’t get such a hard time.

Honestly, if ele would just work with you instead of against you, nobody would mind them one bit. They’d be best friends.

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

1. Give them DH block spam
2. Give them Rev evasion spam
3. Give them Druid healing spam

That’s what everybody else does.

A good player plays a meta build and wins….

and this is unexpected?

I can do the same at higher tiers with non-meta builds.

Of course superior setups and players are going to climb. It’s the law of averages. But what team rolls who is still always going to be a determining factor. Can’t escape it. Not much point arguing against it or dismissing it.

The only true fact is that GW2 is a hell of a game, that is all XD

I also only run some sort of rifle setup when I play war, and always have. War is not my main, and I never expect to go to the top when playing it. I’m also past caring for GW2 as my #1 competitive game, so these days I play for different reasons (like the fun of playing rifle, mixed with the testing/balancing and counter meta build producing aspects).

Two major thoughts on Rifle under the current S5 state.

Rifle needs a particular setup to “work” and the right rotation of skills to properly drop someone to the ground in a timely manner. Understanding warrior staples about adrenaline levels, burst use, and weapon swapping is necessary to get the most out of it. There’s rarely a good reason not to take the Berserk line now, so Defense and Discipline are the other must haves. Though arguably a rifle-centric build would really benefit from some other options. You’ll just not live long enough to make the most out of it. Whether your new or old to warrior, everybody figures this out off the bat.

Second: Rifle as a weapon is dependent on a min/max setup, and the skills need redesigning to accommodate this. Rifle 4 was a major step in the right direction but it hasn’t gone far enough. Rifle butt is great, and volley can be utilized for some much needed pressure. However the AA is weak, or possibly just to slow, not to mention clunky in close quarters. It could do with either a damage buff, a rate of fire buff, or some situational tweak like doing more damage at close range. Perhaps some combination of the two.

Simply increasing AA damage isn’t enough though. The weapon feels like it needs some sort of more skill based defense. I know stealth isnt a warrior thing and probably never will be, but it often comes to mind as a target drop and reposition skill. But stealth isnt necessary. Turning rifle 2 into a single channeled block like mesmer scepter 2 that can also be pressed a second time to fire it’s crippling shot would go a long way. Then reducing a cd slightly on 4, even at the cost/removing of the imob would give it what it needs to perform at it’s roll. If the devs wanted to improve the weapons overall function some more, they could split the imob shot from the #4 into a second skill that can be fire after the evade, allowing you to evade > imob (at your choosing within a window of a few seconds) > then burst/pressure.

I could happily have all the damage stripped away from the 1-4 skills if it was loaded up with defense/utility. Then I could skillfully outlast my opponents while building adrenaline to use in timely bursts.

OriOri.8724:

Ross Biddle.2367:

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Yes, currently increasing the CD won’t change the fact that you can use it twice every 90 seconds (or 76.5) due to CS. But that goes out the window when we get the next elite spec and not everyone plays chronomancer anymore.

I really wish people who played mesmer would start looking at skill CDs objectively and leave CS out of it. CS doesn’t affect base mesmer, and it won’t affect anyone who plays the new elite spec, as such, any and all core mesmer skill CDs should be balanced primarily without CS in mind, and then if it happens to be overtuned with CS in play then it can be adjusted later.

You assume the next elite spec will give mesmer a viable build and that Chrono won’t remain utterly necessary due to the core problems inherent in mesmer design (and in the face of the meta).

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

But yes, you’re right, CS doesn’t effect base mesmer. But Chrono effects every weapon, utility, and elite currently in play! Chrono may need CD increases, but base mesmer does not. Base mesmer operates at about 1/3 the potential of chrono given everything, it’s ridiculous having to run it in an elite spec age (the eAge).

I know it’s crazy to suggest it but the game needs an entire redesign once again to properly balance how weapons/traits/skills/utilities/elite specs work. The devs won’t be ready to admit it yet, and I presume the game will fall to the annals of history before it comes about, but balancing elite specs and the matter of core lines will never be resolved until they do.

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Spoichiche.1290:

but the game is clearly not less skillful/balanced than before.

Fact: The game is less skill dependent, and more unbalanced than before.

This is at the core of all post HoT complaints. This is what people mean when they say (and they say it a lot) that HoT broke the game.

And, for the record, we had one sweet spot of design and balance for those couple of months after the trait revamp, and before HoT dropped. Everybody was thrilled with the way things were for that brief period of time. Then, DOOM> XD

HoT

adjective, the big change
1.
DOOM
2.
Despair
4.
WTF??!

The devs don’t want it that way.

Take it up with them.

Gwaihir.1745:

You should note that most all guardian passives are nerfed versions of the original. Unlike a lot of other passives in the game.

and yet….

Beautilation.7915:

keep everything as it is, but bring back clone death and make it baseline.

Also bring back scepter spawning two clones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR5iFRRH5SI

Sykper.6583:

Made you click huh?

It’ll be like if a Pro streamed Portal-playing his own lord at Foefire, it’s that stupid!

This alone was worth the price of admission XD

Gwaihir.1745:

Pvp doesn’t balance around bronze tier for obvious reasons.

It doesnt balance at all!

:D

apharma.3741:

zHasgard.9827:

It’s nothing compared to the top 10 players, 5 are the same guy lol,the pro players and the most experience at spvp are just manipulating the leaderbord with secondary accounts and playing only duoq

In NA, don’t tarnish EU with the deceitful, dishonest and honourless standards of the US.

#ShotsFired

Weren’t kitten Germany and Soviet Russia formed and maintained in Europe?

Hmm….

XD

Dreamer.1952:

Orangensaft.7139:

Hey there

While checking my current rank position in comparison to a friend on mine i noticed something strange

On the left side of the PvP League Panel it says:
Games Played: 45
Games Won: 30

When i check my position on the leaderboards though it says:
Wins: 29
Losses: 15

So on the left side it tells me i played 45 games total with 30 wins on the leaderboards to the right i only have 44 games played with 29 wins

My best guess is that 1 of my wins didnt count for the leaderboard for some reason
But i really dont remember having a dc or switching class during the match and being absent from match for too long then or anything like that

So does anyone have an idea what could have caused this?
Or is it just an UI bug that shows it wrong?

Thanks for help in advance

I made the same expirience yesterday. I had yesterday 4 wins 1 loose. Only 3 wins of them are shown on the Ladderboard. I locked on the match history and there I had 4 wins in ranked.
Today The same I hade 7 wins 1 Loose and again 1 is not shown in the Ladderboard but in history all are in ranked. I have 93 matches 52 wins, Ladderboard is showing 48 Wins 39 Loose (btw my loose is so high because I was before in bronze and had really creeping matchmakings, I am happy to be out of bronze).

When I read this I heard it in Chekov’s voice
https://youtu.be/rSQWO5REZbU?t=62

DeathReign.7821:

Lexander.4579:

place continuum split, spam all shatter skills, use signet of illusions and spam all shatter skills once more

once split resets you repeat the above step without the split, collect free wins from bodies of people with billion confusion stacks

It’s the season to be salty fralalalala lalalala.

It’s been one hell of a long season…

OriOri.8724:

=
This isn’t balance ANet. No class should be so much easier to play than others. I would be fine with this if other classes were this braindead and could carry as hard as guardians can, but this is beyond kittening ridiculous. Granted this is bronze division, but still its absolutely ridiculous that 1 class has such a low skill floor that you don’t even have to know what the skills are to be effective with it.

ANet, you really need to remove Guardians ability to carry players. Period

And yet, Anet has done such a bad job of the game at this point that it is absolutely necessary. Or else most new people wouldn’t be able to get in the door, and absolutely none of them would be able to stay XD

If a new player picks the wrong class starting out in this game, you can count them as good as gone once they log out.

Lexander.4579:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Prince Vingador.8067:

kdaddy.5431:

Ill be honest and say i struggle against the condi mesmer 1 vs 1 but if a mesmer goes into a team fight.

I target it first before the necro. When i had a team who actually targeted the mesmer in team fights, wow that guy would die in seconds.

So for me mesmer isnt too bad, it loses to DH in 1 vs 1 and is quickly targeted in team fights.

Really?
U target the mesmer first?
U must be that guy that is chasing the mesmer across the map, while the rest of your team is focusing the necro.

One good unblockable killshot will remove him from the game.

One good lockdown/shatter burst will do the same.

It’s easier than you think if you’re not a complete meta class reliant newb

still playing in the ratings where warriors run rifle i see

Don’t be silly. Except for a few games to see the state of S5, I left this game before the end of S4.

GW2 is a momentary stop in for a brief bout of nostalgia, followed by a walk down frustration lane. Then it’s off to the PS4 to play some good PvP action.

If you’re playing seriously in any ratings bracket of GW2, you’re to be pitied

Zamfir.8462:

Thanks for all the help and hints! Say, while there are a number of mesmers watching – I’m having a huge problem with getting certain skills to land. When creating wells, aoe, moas, etc. They just don’t seem to proc and go into a short cool down. I’m trying to see if I’ve been interrupted, but it’s not clear that I have. I’ve not been knocked down or pulled, etc. I’ve since practiced trying to drop wells and aoe’s on the run and in practice it always works, but in combat for real, more often then not they fail. I find the best chance of dropping a well or proccing an aoe is to stand still and cast it cold, but then I’m a sitting duck. What mechanic am I missing?

It sounds like you’re cancelling your own skill, either by activating another skill, dodge rolling, or possibly breaking los?

Prince Vingador.8067:

kdaddy.5431:

Ill be honest and say i struggle against the condi mesmer 1 vs 1 but if a mesmer goes into a team fight.

I target it first before the necro. When i had a team who actually targeted the mesmer in team fights, wow that guy would die in seconds.

So for me mesmer isnt too bad, it loses to DH in 1 vs 1 and is quickly targeted in team fights.

Really?
U target the mesmer first?
U must be that guy that is chasing the mesmer across the map, while the rest of your team is focusing the necro.

One good unblockable killshot will remove him from the game.

One good lockdown/shatter burst will do the same.

It’s easier than you think if you’re not a complete meta class reliant newb :)

Lexander.4579:

incoming mesmer mains who dont want their broken class fixed in 3 2 1

Hi, day 1 release Mesmer main here.

You can remove CS from the game. I don’t mind. All the non-mesmers will find the next mesmery thing to cry OP about, as they have done since day 1 release.

Also, CS has nothing on Rev. The entire class is a flawed design of brokenness.

Ele’s have always, and continue to be broken.

Thieve’s initiative has seen them be a nightmare of a balance issue for the duration of the game.

and on and on and on…

HoT completely ruined this game. All ire should appropriately be leveled at all HoT changes.

Case in point: For the mesmer class to stand up under the current system, it needs a button that allows it to double up on all its kitten (including an additional button that allows it to double up on its doubled up shatters). Along with a line that grants it the speed it needs to move around, and a mechanic to generate enough clones quickly enough that would otherwise be instantly destroyed without replacement should said traits not be there.

Broken as kitten

myren.5490:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Windwalker.7421:

MailMail.6534:

Clones dying from cleave and AOE is called counter play. Penalizing people for getting rid of our clones would get rid of this counter play. Listen to the Boss Ross.

And why would an option to trait in a way to counter this counter play, especially on a trickster class, be a bad thing? Sounds like a good option if it leads to more build diversity and more skillful counter-play required by those facing Mesmers, because they can’t just mindlessly AoE illusions like now. I fail to see how more horizontal options in traiting are ever a bad idea.

There are lots of counter-play to counter-play scenarios, this is usually considered a good thing for both build and play diversity. It’s just too simplistic to have a single easily accomplished method of completely shutting down a fundamental profession mechanic such as our Shatters is. Giving an option to keep our opponents on their toes when they mindlessly spam AE is IMO an enrichment to skillful PvP play.

Making Illusions or especially Phantasms more survivable is another route, but these are mutually exclusive and completely different play-styles. We already have traits and a Signet to accomplish that, but clearly even if you specialize in all of the current options, not even our Phantasms turn out to be really any more survivable than without these options. So yes, those options should also be significant improved to have a much more noticeable impact, in order to provide another option.

That does not exclude making other useful traits to discourage the killing of especially Phantasms. Those two trait options would in fact be mutually exclusive by their very nature.

The problem is that there is no skill involved. It’s all just mindless spam. Enemies mindlessly spam their aoe/cleave. Clones die at random, spewing random condi’s in their own AoE fields. You then mindlessly spawn more clones without an iota of skill to repeat the process ad-nausea. Then the other guy mindlessly spams condi cleanses, starts his mindless invuln/evade/block chain, and mindlessly spams some more pressure skills etc etc etc.

The game is oodles and oodles of mindlessness at this point. Adding more spamming mindless options is just adding more mindless spam to an already mindlessly spamming spam fest XD

Spam.

While I disagree with Ross’ exaggerated statement, I do agree that utilities and traits should be improved that actually increase phantasm and clone survivability. I mean there’s a lot of changes that could improve QoL like boons on mesmer affect phantasms. Another helpful change would be changing phantasm abilities to something similar to Echo of Memory. An effect then a phantasm that both damages and supports.

You flatter me, thankyou for the compliment :D

Windwalker.7421:

MailMail.6534:

Clones dying from cleave and AOE is called counter play. Penalizing people for getting rid of our clones would get rid of this counter play. Listen to the Boss Ross.

And why would an option to trait in a way to counter this counter play, especially on a trickster class, be a bad thing? Sounds like a good option if it leads to more build diversity and more skillful counter-play required by those facing Mesmers, because they can’t just mindlessly AoE illusions like now. I fail to see how more horizontal options in traiting are ever a bad idea.

There are lots of counter-play to counter-play scenarios, this is usually considered a good thing for both build and play diversity. It’s just too simplistic to have a single easily accomplished method of completely shutting down a fundamental profession mechanic such as our Shatters is. Giving an option to keep our opponents on their toes when they mindlessly spam AE is IMO an enrichment to skillful PvP play.

Making Illusions or especially Phantasms more survivable is another route, but these are mutually exclusive and completely different play-styles. We already have traits and a Signet to accomplish that, but clearly even if you specialize in all of the current options, not even our Phantasms turn out to be really any more survivable than without these options. So yes, those options should also be significant improved to have a much more noticeable impact, in order to provide another option.

That does not exclude making other useful traits to discourage the killing of especially Phantasms. Those two trait options would in fact be mutually exclusive by their very nature.

The problem is that there is no skill involved. It’s all just mindless spam. Enemies mindlessly spam their aoe/cleave. Clones die at random, spewing random condi’s in their own AoE fields. You then mindlessly spawn more clones without an iota of skill to repeat the process ad-nausea. Then the other guy mindlessly spams condi cleanses, starts his mindless invuln/evade/block chain, and mindlessly spams some more pressure skills etc etc etc.

The game is oodles and oodles of mindlessness at this point. Adding more spamming mindless options is just adding more mindless spam to an already mindlessly spamming spam fest XD

Spam.

MailMail.6534:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ithilwen.1529:

Here again, there is agreement with one of my main premises.

Clones die so easily and without any penalty at all. This undermines practically all Mesmer builds.

Hence, killing clones should carry a penalty. I contend that penalty should be damage/conditions just as it was,

OR

Clones are immune to all sources of damage (they can still be hit for 0, and still have condi’s applied), and phantasms take 10% cleave/aoe damage, and only 100% focus.

That way there’s no flaw in the system for Mesmers, and no silly “penalty” for anyone else.

Your conclusion doesn’t follow btw.

Clones dying from cleave and AOE is called counter play. Penalizing people for getting rid of our clones would get rid of this counter play. Listen to the Boss Ross.

As an additional note: If clones couldnt be killed at all, we could actually do away with the necessity for excessive clone generating traits. The chrono line did nothing more than introduce a “surgical” fix to a core mesmer problem. But it’s ugly and only resulted in another monstrosity. We can liken this surgical monstrosity to depictions of Leatherface.

Before THAT we relied on DE, perma endurance regen, and dodge roll for the same clone generation. A more complicated, messier version of our shatter spam auto regeneration now -_-