Guild Wars 2

Stealth isn’t the class specialty, Static. Initiative and stolen objects are.

I am a thief. What is this stability you speak of?

Hype.8032:

RyuDragnier.9476:

A single thief doing it is just trolling. 5 thieves doing it…they’re wiping that group easily. 4 backstab the same enemy for an insta-down, the last one stomps him. Happened to me in WvW.

LOL! 5 of any profession against a group of 6 uncoordinated low skilled opponents should always win.

I do think that SA builds in wvw are overly annoying to play against though. I’m glad they’re largely useless in spvp.

You might have seen that group around Hype, they were a DB group. Had to give them props for coordinating ganks on a zerg’s backline like that too.

>reads original post
>sees that he calls Ranger OP
>proceeds to laugh him out of the room

yodog.4208:

Also, the only reason there is power creep is because there is condi damage in this game. Most games don’t have condi damage, and right now condi damage is the new meta for pvp.
But anyway, this isn’t a condi rage thread

What weed are you smoking? EVERY MMO has debuffs. Debuffs = conditions

A single thief doing it is just trolling. 5 thieves doing it…they’re wiping that group easily. 4 backstab the same enemy for an insta-down, the last one stomps him. Happened to me in WvW.

GoodWithGravy.8019:

Diminishing returns (up to immunity) to discourage abuse/spam. Wears off over a balance tunable timescale.

This fix has been pretty standard for about a decade now.

This should be how it is for ALL CC, with them sharing the same immunity. Immobilized? I’m sorry, that fear now has half its normal duration. Got knockdowned after that? 1 second. Any CC after that? It will not work, only adding to the immunity period where it has no effect until 15-20 seconds pass without somebody attempting a CC, at which point immunity is gone. This is how it should be for both enemies and allies.

Get rid of defiance for this Anet. It’ll prevent stacking of CC, so open world bosses and champions will no longer need defiance, and make CC more important to time. This fixes all CC problems in this game.

Nanazaken, I’m going to say this because apparently I have to bring this up EVERY SINGLE TIME somebody QQs about the QQing about stealth being OP…the main problem people have isn’t that the enemy can stealth, it’s HOW MUCH THEY CAN DO IT. If you’re fighting D/P or somebody with an offhand Dagger, they have access to stealth that can be reused almost every 6 seconds. That is the only problem people have with it, how much access a thief has to it. Imagine if a Guardian could proc Aegis almost every 6 seconds, you’d see a ton of complaints about it too.

You must stay in the circle for the full duration of the AoE. They set it up that way so it had counters, otherwise it would have been too powerful. Instant reveal coming out of it guarantees you’ll stay inside the AoE, and that the enemies know where to aim.

Lostwingman.5034:

Charr are cats, cats largely fear water, this r fact.
Quaggan defense is best anti-cat defense.

They’re like big cats, such as tigers. Tigers LOVE water. Your argument is invalid.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I know. Keep it the way it is. However:

1) Make it Unblockable So that when i hit someone just because they have Aegis it should NOT put it on full cool down

2) Removes all Control CC – Cripple, Immbo, Chill, ect.

3) Immune to CC while in the Lightening form thing.

These changes happen and i would be fine for it to stay the way it is. The amount of times i have used it and been instantly given Immbo and such so i dont move is insane. It is VERY easy to dodge as it is. At least it could be used to remove things like Immbo, Chill and Cripple.

No need for unblockable. Just make it so a block = connecting. Because despite the fact they blocked the damage, it STILL touched them.

The only place such a build would be useful is sPvP, because in WvW if you’re not killing the enemy, you’re only stalemating until their army gets there. Executioner is better than that unless you’re going for trolling the enemy, which is still done better by Signet of Malice + Stealth + Choking Gas + Caltrops, with a Dagger Storm thrown in there if you’re sure you can survive the zerg.

Every class has gotten crappy traits, some are worse off than others in that. Rangers have to go a full 30, A FULL 30 IN NATURE MAGIC, just to have some more on demand active condition removal (we really only have 1 guaranteed) when they could have easily just adjusted existing skills to pull that off instead of giving us a trait. Now tell me yours are crappy again, go ahead.

Jzaku.9765:

killahmayne.9518:

I think this is what people want us to become.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Why-is-ranger-pet-better-then-Warrior/first

Lmao that thread brings back memories. So many new people just completely unaware how Warrior used to be rock bottom in PvP not too long ago.

And now they’re at the very top of the food chain, dominating all. They get to feel what it’s like to be at the top in every way…including unnecessary nerfs. God knows how many the Ranger class has seen.

Azukas.1426:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Azukas, D/P thieves are the only thieves I cannot counter easily, every other weaponset I have a counter prepared for.

Than you need to learn how to play instead of going on this nerf D/P crusade. Pick it up for a few weeks and I bet you’ll find out quickly how to counter one.

Though you’ll have to leave the blob to achieve this

This brought to mind something…you keep saying there’s counters, but I’ve never seen you give them. Please put a video here showing some of the Thief versus thief counters against D/P, that way I can see what I’m doing wrong. Of course, if you can’t…it COULD mean you’re just whiteknighting when you know there’s no counter to it. But that would be foolish.

Juba.8406:

also FYI, Warrior is on the nerf for the 5th time in a row, so get done with your QQ already.

I lol’d. Every class has gotten nerfed more than the Warrior from the beginning of the game, so you won’t see sympathy from most classes, you’re just getting what we’ve been getting since Day 1.

Azukas, D/P thieves are the only thieves I cannot counter easily, every other weaponset I have a counter prepared for.

It’s considered cheesy because with a full 30 points into the traitline, you can remove conditions in stealth, heal while in stealth, and can even gain back initiative while in stealth. Any thief who plans on going into stealth often (D/P stealth spammers) will take the full points because they’re going into stealth so often that those traits give them massive sustain everytime they re-enter it. It’s very easy for a D/P thief with 30 in SA to completely dominate the fight just because it’s incredibly hard to deny them the stealth and thus that sustain.

1 second stability when revealed is not much of a game changer. Now if it was “gain 3s stability every time you dodge” or “gain 3s stability every 10s when not in stealth”, it would be game changing. Do you waste a dodge just to gain stability, or keep it for when you really need it? Do you go into stealth and try to avoid enemies that way, or do you stay out and get that stability but leave your location announced to the enemies?

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

I don’t think this nerf is particularly well thought out. The set does need nerfing, but the 6th bonus looks unreliable, even for a class with a lot of interrupt access like the mesmer. Interrupt skills can fail to interrupt for a number of reasons : evades / target not using skills / stability etc. Combined with the low proc of 20%, you would be lucky if it proc’s even once – the shortish ICD of 15 secs seems irrelevant.

I thought one of the new patch’s features was to make rune and trait activation more reliable? Would prefer either the ICD be upped and / or the number of stacks be reduced for either a 50% or 100% activation chance on interrupt.

You’re telling me you want the most broken rune set in the game to always be viable?

Artasqweroldy.7458:

A while ago i thougt about making a female charr mesmer (actually never saw this combination) and wanted to ask what in your eyes is the best personal storyline?
I know this is a kind of subjective question, but maybe theres an exeptionally shiny peace of the story that stands out compared to the rest of it.

I can give you a rundown of each side’s story for the legions since Name gave a good rundown of the 2nd choice.

Ash Legion: Uncovering and stopping a Flame Legion conspiracy
Iron Legion: Creating a weapon to get rid of the Ascalonian ghosts
Blood Legion: Dealing with an incompetent Legionnaire and a Flame Legion attack.

Mesmer + anything

The mesmer alone makes the duo near invincible because if the other is focused by the enemy, the mesmer will completely devastate them with the clones/illusions. Aim for the mesmer, and they alone will wreck you while the other will kill you without problems. Face it, mesmers alone destroy everything 1v1, anything added to that is overkill.

Chokolata.1870:

Can it be just a flat 15% damage taken reduction?

This, but change it so it effects the Ranger and pet. And then give a GM trait in a different line that increases damage dealt in melee range by 15%. There, we’ve solved part of the pet problem.

Nike.2631:

I believe post-pack Warriors will be fine despite being treated like Rangers just this once…

slaps you

Don’t EVER compare Warriors (which are easily the most OP class in the game) not getting new traits to Rangers (the most underpowered and easily most underwhelming and red-haired stepchild) again. No Warrior can ever know the pain Rangers have received time and time again. Even daring to joke like this is an insult to the Ranger profession and to everybody who plays it and has dealt with subpar changes and constant nerfs since launch despite being the weakest class in the game!

Cloak and Dagger doesn’t need a buff, it’s fine as is. Dancing Dagger…that one I feel everybody can agree on it needing a buff.

nemka.1803:

lastly: there is a simple way to counter healing sig(any healing for that matter), you just apply poison, making it 33% less effictive, why wont you?

there is no need to nerf it if anything it should have a better modifier from healing power.

You imply poison lasts until a person cleanses it, or that everybody can consistently spam it. Neither is true, and the signet goes off every second, as long as it is not used, no special thing needing to be done to keep it healing. This is compared to every other signet that heals HP in the game, btw, all of which have a requirement for the healing. Here’s the list of signets that heal passively and what they require.

Signet of Malice: Heals HP when you hit an enemy
Signet of Restoration: Heals HP when you use any kind of weapon skill.
Signet of the Ether: Heals HP every 3 seconds when an illusion is out, more powerful with more illusions.
Signet of Vampirism: Heals HP when you’re hit by an enemy.

Compare all those Signets to Signet of Healing, and you see the problem, they all have a requirement to gain access to that healing, something Healing Signet does not. If it wasn’t for the existence of Adrenal Health, I’d say have it passively heal based on the amount of Adrenaline you have.

Keep stability, lower overall time for it to maybe 3-4 seconds, give diminishing returns to CC so the more somebody is CCed, the more resistance he has to it until he’s completely immune. Give that resistance 6 seconds with each CC put on the person resetting the time it lasts, and make it so no CC can last longer than 4 seconds. That kills two birds with one stone.

You want to know WHY the stability is so abundant? Because it’s far too easy for just 2 people to knockback/knockdown/pull/fear/immobilize/daze somebody to death by locking them in it. With a diminishing returns on CC, the first CC would work, the 2nd would have a half chance of success, the 3rd time would have a 25% chance of success, and the 4th on wouldn’t work at all. It essentially destroys CC spam and makes CC more important as a strategic move more than anything, and with less CC spam, Stability is less needed so people won’t be bringing it as much.

Head Nazgul.2561:

If You Can buy one legendary and have the skin on All weapons of the same type… Horrible idea. I quit if that happens. If This is only possible With skins bought from the gemstore then its ok.

Nobody gets a Legendary for the stats, Nazgul, not when Ascended are easier to make.

This made me scream with utter joy. UTTER KITTEN JOY. Do you know what this means!? We can have cowboy looking engineers, female thieves looking like Lara Croft, and a cute asura with the cutest outfits kicking kitten . THIS IS HUGE FOR CUSTOMIZATION.

Sorry, it’s a Charr thing. We’re a militaristic nation for a reason, it’ll take a few centuries to get over that.

I lol’d. Condition meta in charge in WvW? Have you PLAYED WvW in zerg to zerg combat? Conditions do practically nothing to a well coordinated zerg, and are mostly diminishing returns the bigger the enemy group becomes.

1v1? It’s devastating.
5v5? Still devastating.
10v10? Not as powerful, AoE cap prevents doing more to them.
20v20 (and on up)? LOL they don’t do anything.

Holland.9351:

Pure Longbow traits in Marksmanship:
Eagle Eye (Master)
Piercing Arrows (Master)
Remorseless (Grandmaster)
Read the Wind (Grandmaster)

Other useful traits for Longbow in Marksmanship:
Spotter (Master)
Signet of the Beastmaster (Grandmaster)

So, a total of 6 useful Longbow traits, but only 2 slots to put them in. Rework this or you won’t be making any progress by adding Read the Wind. 5 traits are already competing for 2 slots, now you’re adding a 6th.

On a side-note,
useful Longbow traits in Skirmishing:
Quick Draw (Master)

That’s a total of 1 useful skill competing for 2 slots.

Combine Piercing Arrows and Eagle Eye, move spotter to Adept. That’s all that would be needed to fix this. Then the only difficult choice will be which GM to take, as it should be.

Use glamour skills, and put on the trait that makes them give enemies confusion. Watch as enemies waste their condi-removal on the original push by the hammer train while you destroy them immediately afterwards with the confusion.

Who the hell came up with these ideas? Warriors and Mesmers get a massive buff from these traits, Rangers get a bunch of crappy ones save for one which is now REQUIRED to get more active condition removal (forcing all of us into bunker builds), etc.

kitten Anet, I want to trust you, but you’re only telling us with these traits that you don’t care about balance, considering that both Mesmers and Warriors are already OP across the board.

My opinions…

Read the Wind: This has its place due to the full points in Marksmanship required, but unless you’re in WvW or can keep yourself away from the enemy the entire time, it’s worthless.

Strider’s Defense: May only see use from Power Rangers.

Poison Master: ROFL poison…worthless when you have Empathetic Bond and Bark Skin in this line.

Survival of the Fittest: Since this gives us an on-demand active condition removal, we’re now forced to get this. Here come the x/x/30/30/x bunker builds. Really should have been a Master trait.

Invigorating Bond: This could come in handy for people who are actually 30 points into Beastmastery.

If I remember right, doesn’t caltrops and choking gas set off the block on Aegis?

It’s not just you kamix, I have this same problem. It gets annoying, and unfortunately there is no real way to solve the problem.

smitske.4912:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I have a feeling they may be giving us a more…useful idea for the trait system. I’m hoping we’re able to equip 2 of each trait type on there. Meaning 2 adept, 2 master, 2 grandmaster. Do you know how much of a game changer that would be!?

Also guys, calm down about the trait. You remember how powerful we were with LB before the quickness nerf due to the double attack speed? It means we get the unnerfed quickness for Longbow, AND it’ll stack with Quickness now.

we dont, attack speed itself stays the same just the projectile speed gets better, which admittedly makes it harder to just sidestep the attack, but that should not be the case in the first place making this a QoL change that should not be put behind the trait system.

Ahh, read it wrong then. Then it truly is worthless.

I have a feeling they may be giving us a more…useful idea for the trait system. I’m hoping we’re able to equip 2 of each trait type on there. Meaning 2 adept, 2 master, 2 grandmaster. Do you know how much of a game changer that would be!?

Also guys, calm down about the trait. You remember how powerful we were with LB before the quickness nerf due to the double attack speed? It means we get the unnerfed quickness for Longbow, AND it’ll stack with Quickness now.

Traveller.7496:

Oh, and I forgot to mention all those options for Marjory’s question made me cringe. In a RP sense, my character wouldn’t have said any of them.

I said the last one, it wasn’t a joke. Closest choice to “It felt like getting rid of a massive thorn in my side.”

Anybody else feel that Marjory’s sister has been shown just so she can be killed off in the next Living Story release? You know, give Marjory a personal reason to go kill a dragon.

Berk.8561:

Warlord.9074:

The fact that none of you remember or know that ANET has fixed this issue before shows that you guys are just noobs abusing an old bug that has been re-enabled due to bad programing.

I’d be more than happy to not use trebuchets and catapults to damage gates from behind if there were some other reasonable way to place and use siege from inside of a fortification that couldn’t be destroyed the attacks of enemies not using counter siege weapons.

Right now, there is almost no pay-off for defensive play and the door treb is one of the only good ways to defend fully upgraded towers against enemies when the populations vary widely over time are severely imbalanced, which happens quite a bit on the low-tier servers. I understand that there are practical reasons why taking a tower or keep shouldn’t normally be a multi-hour project for a large group, particularly when it’s weakly defended, but flipping towers and keeps in minutes so that that zerging is like riding the champion train in Queensdale also seems pretty absurd to me, too.

Quoted for Truth.

Axelwarrior.9084:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Axelwarrior.9084:

RyuDragnier.9476:

kitsumen.7390:

you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.

Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.

He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.

Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.

Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.

Enemies can still see the Black Powder if you use it while stealthed, so using Shadow Refuge first doesn’t change anything.

It gives you a large head start. You go to stealth, you run a bit away, then you start all the stealth spamming. They’ll be spending a while trying to find you.

Axelwarrior.9084:

RyuDragnier.9476:

kitsumen.7390:

you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.

Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.

He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.

Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.

Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

Viking Jorun.5413:

If you’ve been playing your class for more than 500 hours you should have some logical counter to a thief. Personally, I shotgun cluster bomb at my feet or put distance between myself and the thief depending on my utilities’ cooldowns. Both are effective measures, especially when I swap to shortbow and troll to make the thief lose his edge and want to kill me more than survive.

The true key to beating a thief, especially D/P, is knowing how to control the fight. Manipulating your opponent is the best strength a D/P thief has, more than other thieves, and when you take that control away he’s lost the fight.

I usually just switch to P/P when I see it’s a D/P thief, and immediately start using Unload the second he drops a BP. The D/P thieves I beat are usually stupid enough to go without any points in Shadow Arts, so a single Unload can make them back off or down them easily.

However if I’m fighting one smart enough to have points in Shadow Arts, I usually just Shadow Refuge and leave, since in the time it takes to fight him I could already be across the map helping scout out enemy groups. But I rarely roam nowadays since I tend to stick with small groups, so when I see one I’ll just spam Headshot when he tries to Black Powder just to deny him stealth long enough for everybody else to kill him or make him run.

Reverence.6915:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Pyroathiest.4168:

XacTactX.6709:

Before we wanted even matches so ANet decided to match the servers strictly in triplets, and strangely enough this matchup is 7-9. Now that being said this is because SoR’s rating needs time to adjust, it will drop out of T3 next week or the week after. Now this is the part that creates controversy: should ANet do things like make a judgment call and put SoR in a T4 match this week in anticipation of them losing rating? Seems reasonable but I’m not certain.

A lot of people like that hater from Mag don’t like DB because it has SEA guilds. We also have only 2 EU guilds on weekends and 1 on weekdays. Don’t be kitten just because you don’t outcoverage us in all time zones.

We don’t want DB in T2 for reasons that have nothing to do with your SEA coverage. We all know that DB is nowhere near capable of competing in T2. They’ll be absolutely destroyed. Likewise, if FA gets shoved down to silver for the league because of DB consuming score from SOR, every silver league server is going to wish DB was back, because FA will absolutely dominate, and it won’t be fun for anyone involved.

If you don’t want to fight DB in gold, or worse, be stuck in silver, then you and FA should actually show up this match. Seems SoS came out to play, or You and FA decided to stay home.

Few guilds transferred to SoS recently giving them far superior coverage to Mag or FA, which means that SoS will naturally gain more PPT than either Mag or FA. It’s not about Mag or FA not showing up at all.

The only time we beat those two that I know of is Oceanic time. Mag’s EU and NA groups are beastly, and can easily net them some PPT. FA…I really don’t know, Mag is usually the one I see most of the time.

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Shonie.5297:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Boonprot.6274:

Why would anyone in T2 want DB. Almost the entire GvG community is on Mag/FA/SoS.

We’d want DB for 1 week to completely shut them down and beat them so hard they’ll realize they never want to come back again. In other words, week of steamrolling them before “Back to your regularly scheduled programming”.

Kinda like what Dragonbrand did to Ehmry Bay before you transferred?

I think that was the week ZoD was PvEing to get the gold necessary to transfer. Most of us weren’t in WvW that week, if it’s the week I’m thinking of.

kitsumen.7390:

you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.

Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Darek.1836:

thief is pretty good too for skilled players too

There is no such thing as skilled when playing a thief.

Glass cannon, no stealth. WILL YOU ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE!?