Guild Wars 2

SlayerSixx.5763:

Uh, SA reducing damage by 25% as long as you’re stealthed. Not as powerful as prot, but it stacks with it. I know that doesn’t validate choov’s comment, buy thought I’d throw it out there.

Also, pain response, shadow step (and if you’re intent on not stealthing) signet of agility is 1 + another 1 for every nearby ally (idk cap). If you run S/D, 1 per SW2 return. Withdraw and HiS theoretically cleanse 3 (+1 on withdraw if you run trickster).

Thief has enough condi cleanse outside of stealth IMO.

Aaaaalso, if you know the player knows how to land skills in between dodge casts (treat everyone like they’re intelligent until proven otherwise), be smarter and have a little something something ready for him when your roll is about to end. Its not rocket science people.

SResilience is trash you are already trying not get hit so why reduced damage while stealth anyway? Acro is trash, Pain Response is unreliable, shadowstep is mainly a stun breaker to get away and is not low CD, Signet of Agility doesn’t work like that , s/d is trash, it’s fine running HiS if you don’t mind non damaging conditions,constant interrupts and lighting damage, trickster is weak so are most of the tricks.

Your last paragraph should be just focus on guaranteed 2v1 and decap but don’t say thief has good cleansing out of stealth even the one in stealth was nerfed.

Lyger.5429:

Cheer up guys!, join the dark side and play p/d condi thief

You contradicted yourself that build and set only works in WvW and PvE where anything can work. The few that existed in PvP died after core spec patch mine did as well. Saw of few ballerina thieves around during BWE 2 and 3 but meh even with upcoming DD changes I’ll count a condi thief as a sticky pet I don’t even care for venom bombing anymore.

Serious Thought.5394:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVnMJClOhFNBONB8PhDYiyHGxxIy7hYYH0JQAUAA-TJxCABAcKAwb/hjfCAaVGAA

I’ve been killing Mesmers, Engis, Warriors, Fellow thieves, some weird Eles, and burn guards. Can’t touch Necros or Rangers because “oh my skillful, automatic, zero active play condi clear” (for rangers) and because necros are just condi gods.

No offense but that is miserable thief is second to last in condition damage. There is still no explanation on why CiS is competing with SRej just that 1 change broke OH dagger and they are fine with it. Anything works in WvW and PvE.

I have the exact opposite problem the amount of sustain I found in some of my matches is why I switch to bunker or hybrid instead of pure power or condi. You cannot deny that bunkers can reach extremes just like burst damage. I would say it depends on both comps but you are in solo queue right? Don’t complain about build matchup then you don’t know what you will fight or who will be on your team it has always been the same.

That’s the beauty of PvP.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Do not use Corruption skills if you don’t have a way to transfer.

Corruptions must be top tier and other players must not apply conditions. Oh wait that fits PvE…where anything works and mobs’ conditions are quaggan baby lotion soft. We can deal with base conditions but MoC passed the limit carelessly.

For #4 just make it a direct heal and increase projectile speed,#5 reduced cast time and corrupt boons. Spinal Shivers is somewhat overrated except CoD because you don’t have to stop attacking and carry a low link weapon. OH dagger needs help as well it’s WH> all no matter the build.

Okay it seems this hasn’t been said enough. Anything works in PvE/WvW. Lack of significant condition mobs in PvE is a flaw it doesn’t take advantage of a major part of the combat system and most of necro is useless there, there could have been possibilities for necro to contribute to dps by transfer and getting conditons off allies. What good are the additional conditions really bringing? Cripple on CPC is meh but that’s it.

Still no official comments on reveal for 3 sec in PvP. What happened to normalization across game modes?

With no initiative cost this is major dps boost to PvE thief permanent backstab O.o different idea but I can’t see it happening.

I would rather lose HP directly,nothing wrong with base conditions it’s the the additional ones from MoC that limits their use. I say this all the time but “anything works in PvE/WvW”. LF cost is a straight nerf, I’m still standing by the idea of it applying the base condition in an AoE. Why would I transfer a low duration blind,cripple,vuln etc MoC is just bad fix it.

Velimere.7685:

Sagat.3285:

Do you want a good example?

For the next 6 sec you are unable to gain LF,swap attunements(tempest lol),unable to create illusions,unable to gain adrenaline etc.

Did I miss a recent update to the game which made it so that any given Thief cannot steal or activate weapon skills while being revealed? Because that’s your direct comparison.

Not at all that would be preventing shatters not illusuons creation which is possible already through interrupts PB being a good example. Dual skills and stealth attacks may not be dominant such as initiative but they are still class mechanics. If reveal was permanently applied everywhere literally no one would care except thieves, that’s a stretch because that’s the mentality they are showing right now especially with other classes getting stealth as extra and only d/p managed to survive.

@ronpierce That’s a bad comparison between thief and necro, stealth attacks are a thief mechanic and stealth is part of thief. Bad comparisons with ele,mesmer,necro. Do you want a good example?

For the next 6 sec you are unable to gain LF,swap attunements(tempest lol),unable to create illusions,unable to gain adrenaline etc. The only reason more reveal is because they are adding stealth to other classes and more stealth to WvW they are the ones that made PU about stealth instead of boons. It’s all excuses just to nerf thief while nerfing it.

Kaiser.9873:

I get it…..it’s to make stealth gyro TB skill needed.

Nope it’s to bring more reveal to nerf thief.

messiah.1908:

Corruption are more group oriented with support
Give might
Rip boons
Block projectile and poison and weaken
Spread conditions

That’s why they give something back to us

Also using them smartly can proc the transfer the self condi to our enemy

I understand they like thematic skills but the base and traited self conditions are the reasons why it’s hard to accept them. In a group condition get cleared quickly so transfer is pointless and even if you are condi oriented they don’t really do much damage unless you have reaper for CPC. The idea that they should apply their base conditions around the necro is a way better than additional ones it rewards positioning current MoC is just terrible.

Can I say that no classes in those games uses it like thief(this is a thief thread mesmer wouldn’t care) and none have it integrated like it either so bad comparison. Stealth to them is what stealth in GW2 is to engi or mesmer. If revealed was constantly applied everywhere literally only thief would care that’s how you know your mentality and theirs about stealth is not the right one.

Ravezaar.4951:

no really want my Blind, one of few defensive tools vs Melee we have, and giving Necro stealth is as stupid as when we got Dhuumfire… so no no Absolutely NO

Aahh dhummfire still wet even if you blast it with life. I almost forgot about it…

The issue with ballerina thief or “aids” as @Kicker calls them is that just like panic shooters or “braindead” by some it that all you want to do is use #3 at least some s/p is slighty not the case but if 3 is all I have to press. Seriously d/d doesn’t provide reliable condi AA making SB necessary even with condi builds, just putting stuff on top of Death Blossom isn’t going to make it work just like putting damage on top of Unload. Stop it.

About Dancing Dagger let it grant you swiftness per foe hit,add blind to CnD.

bliss.4305:

I support the reveal on trapper condi thief builds. Right now that build is causing a lot of outrage in almost all servers because of the possibility to maintain perma stealth and damage people.

I’m sure people can still use trap builds with trapper runes if the initial trap damage revealed you. I don’t understand how any thief here can find logic in being able to deal damage and stay stealthed at the same time with absolutely 0 loss of stealth.

I support this post. This needs a fix for WvW.

It’s a nerf if of everything traps get nerfed… It would simply encourage not letting the players activate the traps and just use them for stealth especially now that CiS competes with SRej. So with the possibility of getting revealed and not having cover blind for meh trap effects and just stealth it’s a plain nerf even more with all this damage running around.

I don’t like how they made me enjoy the spec but it’s definitely not OP, I only stop due CiS being GM, SE nerf was harsh but this one broke it for me.

Puck.9612:

Op is a necro complaining about burn guards…. Smh

^This for every class except thief.

Hell to the no my thief side wants to backstab you. Enough of giving other classes stealth and bringing more reveal because of it, axe and OH dagger/focus are still not up there that is something you should support not this. You are begging for nerfs.

If I don’t use SB why can’t I “1v1 properly”? Are we forced to or did they didn’t even bother with other options?

The “best mobility vs combat efficiency” argument as already been discussed many times with the ending where is the other option? If all the mobility comes from SB shouldn’t at least another weapon make combat effective? Off-topic but let’s buff p/p damage and think as d/d as competitive melee condition weapon.

laquito.5269:

MadVisions.4529:

snippet

I can see where this idea is coming from, but I don’t think thief needs any more stealth.
Quite frankly this would make D/P SA even better due to more stealth access.

Simply put: You can’t buff anything stealth related without buffing D/P SA. So in order to get any build diversity you can buff Acro or nerf SA. As it stand right now though they would have to add things to acro that would be blatently OP to let it compete with SA.

Shadow Arts has to much easymode passive traits that make this spec far more forgiving than anything else. As long as it stays Low Risk High Reward nobody right in their mind will ever play anything else in tPvP, hence its meta.

Putting CiS back to master tier and reverting SE nerf won’t power creep d/p it will be enough to give OH sets a chance then they can buff those.

On reveal effects are bad this has been discussed many times already you can receive infinite conditions or damage while revealed not the same for stealth if on revealed effects have to exist they have to be offensive. SRej is adept minor level unless you have a way to guarantee the heal only d/p can ever since CiS became a GM making the heal useless and inferior for the rest of the sets because they were all stronger than d/p :/ good move “dev”. So no nerfs are not needed especially now. For DD EA just needs to be a minor and heal on evade higher however it still remains a hindrance to Acro’s health.

Jinx.4619:

Its boring D/P combo shadow shot> back stab steal>basilisk>back stab+ improvisation just doing this all day and realize that sr what keep thief stong not the weapon itself

Need run sb> spam IA

See guardian +1 need

And you still say it strong

This game already turned into rock paper scissor system and I dont like it

You only can help your self if you find the game boring which is an opinion. I’m comparing d/p to the rest of the sets when I say strong-er….obviously.

Never and it will be forever missed. The sacrifice for tempest was not worth it and ele was somewhat slowly moving away from cantrips but nope we have to kill possible diversity. Balancing base classes around their elite spec was,is and will be a terrible idea thief lost Acro, ele lost a decent signet build.

Something has to work until staff dominate. It’s not the upcoming reveal that we should worry about it’s the mentality that more will keep coming as other classes gets more access to stealth and we get nerfed.

No don’t make it harder for them you have no idea of what you are doing please no corruption like skills on thief. Reverting the SA nerf s(SE,CiS in GM) would do wonders, they’ve got animations to improve as well(Death Blossom) and more if they read this section. What is even the point of your request 1 outgoing hit and we are revealed so what’s the point?

I fear that would lead to ultimate lack of weapon diversity. Why make d/p stronger when it’s already stronger??

Shirk.6421:

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t understand why you’re asking for the stealth focused class to have less stealth, even though it doesn’t make enough of a difference to actually kill you.

Stealth should be a defensive mechanism, not something you stay in 24/7.

Stealth means more to thief than other classes it’s not just an extra. Traps are not dangerous anyway so even if you get hit by all of them it’s no worries just an annoyance. Now if ranger ones didn’t have damage that would bring worries, DH traps are visual effects.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

They specifically remove the damage because it hindered the only reason a thief would ever use a trap which is Trapper Runes they weren’t intended for ranger or DH lol. Call that a “cheap” fix m8.

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Why does everyone want a dark field?

Smoke field for access to Hook Strike

I feel like those who want smoke field are leaning on making it closer to d/p the best set with vast utility that’s cheap and staff was “in combat” oriented, it’s already trying to copy SB with it’s #3. Trying to make a set fit too many roles makes it OP then it gets nerfed in d/p case it’s not OP but they can’t nerf it that’s the only “combat” set left working after previous nerfs, it’s the only reason thief is not equipping double SB in PvP. While it worries me they will have to improve the rest of the sets without copy and pasting what d/p offers anyway might as well use staff as the first experiment.

Slightly off-topic I realized thief is the only one with updates like those so far after every class forum BWE3 threads were sticked by the same person mmm trying to improve social status?

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Every match I had has always ended with direct damage majorly outshining condition damage. Just like damage and sustain are high healing and cleansing are as well so conditions are fine.

PopeUrban.2578:

I think, also, that with the alacrity/chill question it could be easily remedied by simply giving the thief additional innate counters to chill. We already have many traits that specifically cleanse debilitating but not damaging conditions. Adding chill to those lists as a counterbalance and having chill affect init again would be a fine middle ground IMO.

SE revert?

Kuya.6495:

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

Everything and everyone is high.

Runewolf.8456:

Ohoni.6057:

Nope, just fix Acrobatics as it was before The Great Nerf.

and then have two lines that do virtually the same thing?

This is where you get a bold overview of their balance. Why is DD dodge based and why nerf Acro for it? Why introduce more reveal if you are adding stealth to other classes? Why make the combat theme elite spec better at running away then the core class?

I can’t believe most thieves just get along with it but meh thief is not GW2 to them. Their logic is foreign to me at many occasions.

Everything and everyone is high.

tboneking.2531:

To piggyback on this thread: does parasitic contagion work in DS as well?

Nope.

Bhawb.7408:

Basically whatever goes through shroud is whatever ANet has allowed to. Some things don’t that are life steal, like Blood Bond, and some things that aren’t life steal go through, like Blighter’s Boon. It is probably because they have to do it on a case by case basis, and in this case Spiteful Renewal didn’t make the cut, for whatever reason.

Blood Bond didn’t as well weird.

Chokolata.1870:

By design, for better or worse, the Thief is a +1 and a decap class.

That is false by design thief is a burst oriented with focus one weapon set due to initiative same way necro is an attrition oriented with DS.

@Stilgar I’m trying to avoid posting here much because “blah blah” but just one thing, anything “works” in PvE/WvW.

Zero Day.2594:

Hell definitely froze over.

A buff request… instead of a nerf…

Wow.

The times have changed I see a few like these in PvP forums as well.

Just rough and random ideas but the main to remember is that to remake a core line will take a while especially with needed adjustments to the class. I don’t see it happening the relation between Acro and DD was obviously intended it’s a cheap way of making it easier to balance or else Acro would have gotten better traits and DD would be something else.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sagat.3285:

Not sure if it’s enough to create a line around it but good effort not great because you are turning it into steal (bunch of effects same move), some traits could stay don’t completely rework it merge and/or solidify it. Also it’s weird but a wrongly relief that no utilities are attached to Acro anymore.

My thinking was that, since all thieves have Steal at the very least, it would have potential use for all builds, but unlike trickery affect all shadowsteps to make it a line you could actually build around with weapon sets and utilities. I approached the concept by thinking “okay, if i were looking at this as an alternative to SA with two offensive lines” as well as “could this be a compelling alternative for sword builds to DD if it lost swindler’s equilibrium”

I also thought about it in terms of future elite specs. Would this be viable in an elite spec that replaced steal with a non-shadowstep mechanic? I came to the conclusion that since d/p, p/d, sword/X, and shortbow all have weapon shadowsteps, and there are enough core utilities that shadowstep that it was in a pretty good place for the future.

Any suggestions for changes?

I would mind if it was an elite spec but since Acro and DD overlap too much so it seems appropriate but it can’t be purely shadowstep oriented. Assuming Acro’s evade/dodge based traits go to DD or gets deleted maybe this:

(In advance you are aware that some skills/utilities would have to change/nerf for this too as well as restrictions right? The concept itself is lacking or slim)
Minors:
-Shadowstepping gives you 1 initiative 2sec ICD
-The range of your shadowstep are increased by 150 range
-Shadowstepping removes a condition 1 sec ICD

Adept
-Gain superspeed after shadowstepping 3 sec
-SB skills have increased damage and have a chance to chill foes 5% more damage 50% to chill 2 sec duration
-

Master
-When you steal shadowstep your foe to your previous location and immobilizing and damaging them 2 1/2 sec immobilize
-When you steal shadowstep allies around your foe away from him healing and reviving them 3 allies,900 range,30% revive,2000 healing
-

GM
-Assasin’s Reward(buffed)
-Your next attack after you shadowstep burns and blinds foes 360 radius 2 stacks of burn 4 sec duration 2 sec ICD
-Reduce recharge on traps 20% when activated traps gives you Dark Aura 3 sec duration(block attack and siphon health when hit 1 sec ICD) and grant might 5 stacks 15 sec duration(I know that is fantasy)

Missing two but those are rough ideas.

Not sure if it’s enough to create a line around it but good effort not great because you are turning it into steal (bunch of effects same move), some traits could stay don’t completely rework it merge and/or solidify it. Also it’s weird but a wrongly relief that no utilities are attached to Acro anymore.

Gibimo.2193:

Impact.2780:

Daredevil is in no way elite. It’s got some nice options, but it’s impractical since the vigor changes, and due to the fact that other trait lines are mandatory. D/P works better with Shadow Arts. S/D could make good use of the traits there, but it doesn’t add enough punch to allow S/D to compete in terms of burst, and S/D was barely viable without Acrobatics before the vigor change; now it needs that improved vigor, and near 100% up-time to be on par in terms of survivability with itself before the vigor nerf. Our class mechanic is rubbish without building it up with Trickery, S/D needs Acrobatics, that means Trickery/Acrobatics/Daredevil, and that of course is not meta material because you lose the offensive buffs from Deadly Arts or even Critical Strikes. You’re a DPS roamer that has taken three defensive trait lines just to be able to survive enough to perform a role, instead of building for that role.

I do feel quite jelous of mesmer right now. Not only did they get a bunch of their “mandatory” traits made baseline, which we didn’t, they have gotten a very creative elite spec that, most importantly, is great and will definitely be used in PvP meta. Meanwhile thieves are still forced to take Trickery and have this fun looking elite spec which is pointless to use.

Note it looks fun, not cool. Setting practicality and viability aside, it doesn’t compare to the likes of Chronomancer, Reaper, Scrapper or even Tempest in terms of creativity and appearance. We just have a couple of traits which we should have in Acrobatics, and Reckless Dodge made grandmaster because it comes with a new animation.

Agreed,
Thieves have to spend too much traits on steal and forced to use trickery.
Because steal is just a gap closer without some investments.
Some of them have to be basis and traits should gives other benefits of choice.
I hope ‘trickery’ would be more condition focused giving some other benefits while playing condition and hit and run play style.

There’s a condition trait in every tier of Trickery however I barely see play for Pressure Striking not only it is weak the requirements compared to the style of p/d and ballerina thief are too off and utilities spots are already locked. Inb4 the ballerina thief gang shows up anything works in WvW/PvE. Also “he who knows his name” has been avoiding every discussion on Acro’s relation to DD,reveal and CiS competing with SRej for OH dagger sets, I call that discrimination and hypocrisy against specific constructive feedback.

DD is ironically better at running away then the believed team fighter theme, you ended with the exact opposite just saying.

knyy.6427:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

A thought occurs to me.

IF: Chronomancers are going to be meta…
THEN: Alacrity needs to affect initiative gain.

I’m not sure if anyone has tested this yet, but it needs to be the case. The optimal PVE group will always contain a chronomancer for quickness and alacrity. For alacrity to be fair, it needs to affect Initiative.

no thanks, because if alacrity affects initiative gain, then chill will too. i dont need that.

Ouch I was on the pro side until that came into consideration so no please. I’m forced to take Withdraw since SE nerf I don’t need more reasons to not engage in fights just because a chrono might be around, PvE is flawed anyway, I know DD has chill removal but that and it’s relation with Acro drives it into the P2W and lesser diversity aspect so again no. Thief has endured too much this should never happen.

Taxidriver.2043:

lol u mean pay to run away? the whole spec is just to run away faster.

/irony

It will not rival d/p but it contains two thirds of the Acro rework so it’s kind of in between.