Guild Wars 2

Still nothing about CiS and SRej in the same tier, d/p needed improvement why not buff that?

babazhook.6805:

Sagat.3285:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

No it not absolutely needed. Yes it would be too close to D/p in style of gameplay.

Stealth blind backstab YAWN same thing over and over. If you want to stealth blind and backstab why pick one set over the other?

Because it’s a completely different playstyle. And to be honest D #5 needs blind more than D/P #3 – so lets take it from D/P then if D/D isn’t allowed to have it.

It still blind stealth and backstab. #1 and #2 of d/d and d/p are already the same. Making the #5 the same in FUNCTION (blind stealth backstab) does not make the sets further apart. I do not see that as imaginative.

I would prefer to see the d/d set have a significant advantage in the damage it inflicts on doing a backstab given it so much harder to set up. The reward would be MORE damage and not just Blind which d/p already has.

Now there the damage component of of the CND that can be pointed to as to why it advantageous to use but given the number of CNds that fail due to blocks dodges timing when compared to the means by which the d/p set can stealth I do not think it enough. I do not see this disadvantage made up for by adding a blind to CnD.

Damage is not the issue it was always utility vs d/p, sustain became a problem when CiS was put in the same tier as SReJ. If Death Blossom and Dancing weren’t lacking in the movement/utility department the set would be fine. Adding blind to CnD is not fixing the set it’s fixing a mistake in what made the set work.

But as you know CnD never had blind on stealth. The proper fix for it remains in the SA traitline and not in making D off hand more like P offhand.

All you are arguing for is homoginizing the two weaponsets to make them more alike. By all means switch up the traits and drop a blind on stealth back down to master. THAT is where the style was broken and that is where it should be addressed.

No that would just promotes less trait choices and adaptability it would just be a linear path just because you have OH dagger. Making it baseline creates a bit of freedom and a new trait while not powercreep it since only the stealth from CnD would blind and not all like with CiS.

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

No it not absolutely needed. Yes it would be too close to D/p in style of gameplay.

Stealth blind backstab YAWN same thing over and over. If you want to stealth blind and backstab why pick one set over the other?

Because it’s a completely different playstyle. And to be honest D #5 needs blind more than D/P #3 – so lets take it from D/P then if D/D isn’t allowed to have it.

It still blind stealth and backstab. #1 and #2 of d/d and d/p are already the same. Making the #5 the same in FUNCTION (blind stealth backstab) does not make the sets further apart. I do not see that as imaginative.

I would prefer to see the d/d set have a significant advantage in the damage it inflicts on doing a backstab given it so much harder to set up. The reward would be MORE damage and not just Blind which d/p already has.

Now there the damage component of of the CND that can be pointed to as to why it advantageous to use but given the number of CNds that fail due to blocks dodges timing when compared to the means by which the d/p set can stealth I do not think it enough. I do not see this disadvantage made up for by adding a blind to CnD.

Damage is not the issue it was always utility vs d/p, sustain became a problem when CiS was put in the same tier as SReJ. If Death Blossom and Dancing weren’t lacking in the movement/utility department the set would be fine. Adding blind to CnD is not fixing the set it’s fixing a mistake in what made the set work.

babazhook.6805:

Sagat.3285:

babazhook.6805:

More on cloak and dagger.

I had once been of the opinion that adding blind was the fix needed but after reflection it became apparent this would make the set too close to D/P.

D/p relies on a blind then a stealth and backstab. The “feel” would not be any different when one adds a blind to CnD between the two sets. Offhand dagger becomes too much like off hand pistol..

So there are alternatves that would make the CnD style feel different in d/d builds.

As suggested add more vulnerability stacks. This would make the Backstab always hit harder.

There are alternatives though that can help differentiate the sets.

Add 2 seconds slow to a CND this acting to inibit an enemies reactions.

Add 3 seconds superspeed to a CnD this allowing rapid repositioning while stealthed.

Add Quickness of 2 seconds to CnD wherein the thief now can choose to carefully reposition to get to the back or side for the backstab or come out of hiding immediately and take advantage of the quickness.

Wut??

Blind on CnD is simply needed because SReJ and CiS were put in the same tier and no it wouldn’t be too close to d/p. It’s freeing space in trait choices it literally just needs that blind or these two traits not in the same tier. If “he who knows his name” doesn’t get that by now I fear nerfs will come as soon as the patch hits.

No it not absolutely needed. Yes it would be too close to D/p in style of gameplay.

Stealth blind backstab YAWN same thing over and over. If you want to stealth blind and backstab why pick one set over the other? Surely there something more creative that can be done then rely on blind all the time.

You don’t get it do you? That style was present already they just nerfed it with OH dagger to promote less diversity. You misunderstood the initiative system if you expect a change of style, it purely depends on the situation. I’ll take that style instead of buffing the AA of our most used weapon so I can press 1 more.

MadCatSadPet.7649:

To be honest I don’t understand the boon corrupt buff on scepter. Scepter has always been staple for condi builds, and power builds would simply run signet corrupt ( and never use scepter anyway ). Scepter isn’t weak right now. Nor do we really lack boon corrupt.

Reapers aren’t even in a bad place right now, why buff us any further?

I main reaper. I don’t want reaper to become the new OP. When I hear people QQ about reaper now, I know they suck and need to l2p. But if they make us OP it would actually justify all that salt and scrubs would start running reaper cheese. That just cheapens my favorite class to use in pvp.

Have you tried using dhuumfire and just terror for condi necro aka no reaper? Ignore terror have you tried dhuumfire as a non reaper? I don’t see the buff as overwhelming but if a nerf comes let it not be misdirected.

Alin.2468:

The game already has 2v2, 3v3, arenas. Just create a custom arena Courtyard, and set it for 2v2, 3v3, or whatever you desire. Simple.

I miss Courtyard.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brujeria.7536:

It will never, ever be overpowered. In any competetive game mode you could do so much more usefull stuff then using the AA waiting for the full chain for a single boon corrupted, skill 2 and 3 have fairly low cooldown, you have DS / RS skills that are much more potent. Also you have a second weaponset. While it looks good on paper, it really does not come into play that often in a real scenario.

You’re forgetting that you want to land that 3rd auto for the Poison anyway.

You want to land all of your attacks anyway that already makes it a perfect scenario even if we exclude that scepter is single target,of average speed and burst may become more common. I know everyone is factoring reaper in this but I’m not because that’s not how balance works.

babazhook.6805:

More on cloak and dagger.

I had once been of the opinion that adding blind was the fix needed but after reflection it became apparent this would make the set too close to D/P.

D/p relies on a blind then a stealth and backstab. The “feel” would not be any different when one adds a blind to CnD between the two sets. Offhand dagger becomes too much like off hand pistol..

So there are alternatves that would make the CnD style feel different in d/d builds.

As suggested add more vulnerability stacks. This would make the Backstab always hit harder.

There are alternatives though that can help differentiate the sets.

Add 2 seconds slow to a CND this acting to inibit an enemies reactions.

Add 3 seconds superspeed to a CnD this allowing rapid repositioning while stealthed.

Add Quickness of 2 seconds to CnD wherein the thief now can choose to carefully reposition to get to the back or side for the backstab or come out of hiding immediately and take advantage of the quickness.

Wut??

Blind on CnD is simply needed because SReJ and CiS were put in the same tier and no it wouldn’t be too close to d/p. It’s freeing space in trait choices it literally just needs that blind or these two traits not in the same tier. If “he who knows his name” doesn’t get that by now I fear nerfs will come as soon as the patch hits.

Grimreaper.5370:

Paulie.6215:

Add a blind when it hits. That’s all it needs.

You honestly think adding a blind would add build diversity?

It would fix a mistake in trait placement.

Divided by zero.9370:

Sry jana, but if those 8k hours on thief were played in wvw, they hardly count. But to get back you problem, why do you compare d/p skills directly with d/d? Why should you get blind on d/d set? Heck, i can put this the other way around: d/p doesn’t get and evade, no mid-range attack with decent damage, no cripple application, no “instant” stealth. So actually nerf d/d plox.

Blind on d/d is closely related to both CiS and SRej needed to effectively play p/d and d/d ever since those two traits were put in the same tier those sets have had a greater obvious decline in use. That’s why us users of it wanted blind on Cloak and Dagger or just CiS back at master.

A change that wouldn’t buff d/p unlike MH dagger AA buff. Not that changing its tier made sense in the first place Karl or whoever taught it was a good idea.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

It was ever alive?

If I remember they are careful with it because it doesn’t act like a projectile, not that it has the benefits of a projectile but that is the reason it seems for its state…at least boost the traits.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

It was ever alive?

If I remember they are careful with it because it doesn’t act like a projectile, not that it has the benefits of a projectile but that is the reason it seems for its state…at least boost the traits.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Let’s say the attack chain is 1.5 seconds long. Auto attacking for 10 seconds would corrupt 6 boons. The new corrupt boon plus master of corruption would add 3 corruption every 10 seconds. At this point necro would be corrupting around 1 boon per second. Those aren’t even all the tools necro has to convert. And you think this won’t be nerfed immediately?

Please no perfect scenarios..

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Well good thing necros have a spell that sends all their condition to their opponents, right?

If only foes didn’t apply conditions as well you are describing a perfect scenario not that that condition transfer is underpowered but non necros tend to overestimate it’s effectiveness.

kybraga.7103:

Honestly, if they did make Parasitic Contagion, It’d basically kill a trait in Death Magic.

Not that Death Magic trait is really used.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Sagat.3285:

Nina.4317:

Need:

1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Healing Power

This, I’ll wait to experience and know all the changes before further comments. Ele could never be the same

Ele defense is utterly useless without at least ~500 vitality, toughness and healing power.

Removal of celestial without adding an amulet with power/crit/ferocity/toughness/vitality/healingpower makes ele unplayable.

It’s too early but I predict the struggle as well eles goes hand to hand with cele at least necro has shroud for HP. He did claim those are not irreversible changes.

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Lol they are really trying to sugarcoat MoC if you don’t play necro you wouldn’t understand. Boons have always been on a rampage the only bad thing is that boon hate is become more present on necro only so far I would share some to war against protection and stability.

Nina.4317:

Need:

1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Healing Power

This, I’ll wait to experience and know all the changes before further comments. Ele could never be the same

CiS at master tier…

Hahaha I saw this coming and I’m loving it.

Jana.6831:

Guess how often we have asked D/D to be buffed and CiS not to be moved to grandmaster? Now this way around. Since D/P is a low risk high reward set, compared to everything else. If nothing else can’t be viable because D/P might become OP, then lets nerf D/P so we can finally have useful traits.
I don’t mean to harm D/P thieves, I want us all to be viable. And I guess those who know me know that.

Another question how is an improvement to OH dagger,MH pistol,sword and dual skills a buff to d/p since moving CiS to master again will skyrocket its power?

You are asking them for a three(two if you are not seing the big picture) step process do you trust them that much?

Jana.6831:

It wouldn’t be – but there has to be a reason why it’s in GM.

Stupidity is literally the answer.

One question how is CiS back at master tier a buff to d/p?

Haven’t been active in a while. Are they still refusing to acknowledge that CiS as GM is a major issue?

Silverbolt.2301:

Is this a serious post? I’m at a loss of words right now.

(Inserts “base thief must be balanced around DD like Acro was” comment)

You are welcome.

No comments on separated balance but they are really pushing for Esports though. It wouldn’t get nerfed or change in use so I don’t see the point of debating from a PvE point of view if anything you shouldn’t care.

Stand The Wall.6987:

its already been improved
its not going to be improved again
it doesnt need to be improved
no.

When was it improved? Do you mean when stability became stacking and they left the trait at 1 stack?

@Blaine Tog I didn’t notice this was about fighting AI but still PvE shouldn’t get in the way of PvP nor WvW.

@Blaine Tog Your example is a perfect case scenario you will barely get out shroud risking death to proc it at least to an interval close to 7 seconds which already doesn’t make sense since you will be using shroud skills.

Faster ways to die exist other than putting this trait to full potential unless we are talking vanilla PvE or attempting bunker.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Caine.8204:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Foot in the Grave is already obscenely powerful, giving us an excellent stunbreak up to once every 7 seconds without having to spend a Utility skill on it. While I would like better access to Stability outside of Reaper, I don’t see buffing Foot in the Grave as a good way to do that.

It’s really not that much stability in today’s game.

Nor does it need to be. The stunbreaker alone is very strong, considering it’s on a mechanic we will almost always have available and generally want to use while under fire anyway. As far as I’m concerned, the stack of Stability is just gravy.

It’s still meh and greatly pales to Death Perception or Dhummfire if you are a reaper only change I would ask for is making it proc when exiting shroud.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Because then nobody would use channeled vigor.

Winner?

I shouldn’t pull the ele card but as long as elementalist is available to play this amulet is not going anywhere. Like always forums are forgetting to ask for boon hate..think about it for a bit.

Laosduude.1690:

Thief—Steal: Removed this ability’s target requirement. This skill will no longer attempt to fire (and go on cooldown) on enemies outside of its maximum distance.

Reading it carefully, they usually add “Fixed a bug” lol so it was an intended change I bet, but the heat got real.

This makes the “fix” stand out, out of everything to backtrack on mmm I guess that is their limit.

Sunfish.5970:

Sagat.3285:

It’s because revenant has a hard time staying alive in combat especially in team fights that was a somewhat similar case for prepatch necro.

Don’t be fooled….

cant tell if sarcasm or stupid : C

It’s okay to be fooled.

It’s because revenant has a hard time staying alive in combat especially in team fights that was a somewhat similar case for prepatch necro.

Don’t be fooled….

I shall log back in again @Swiftwynd OP probably has access to HoT but I laughed every time someone asked if thief is worth it and the only positive responses are :"But DD has..." especially to returning players even more for PvE.

doblev.2701:

The thief delivers superior to other DPS classes in the game do not understand what the hatred expressed in previous comments in this forum .

The thief is in a tough situation right now that people are still trying to complete the raid , and a meta are totally damaging the sense of play.

I have seen the thief doing 80 k damage seems like a very good way to contribute to a raid do not understand if there are 9 people providing useful and damage not exceeding the thief and the thief made ??every 48 seconds, a 80 k dps then there I do understand.

It’s been a while since I logged in but this got my attention for too long. Just wut?! It’s a great bait though I’m thinking English is not your first language.

Things haven’t change much it seems I’m eager to know what is planned on those balance changes for thief and elite specs.

Sevans.4619:

Bhawb.7408:

PC is probably best changed to not require damage dealt, but just be on applying conditions (like an opposite of Altruistic Healing), or on tick of conditions, regardless of damage dealt. This would also open it up for non-condition damage builds.

I like this idea.

Condition cleansing is always going to be a counter-argument to anything regarding conditions, but I think realistically you can’t balance around the belief that they will always be cleansed; They won’t.

They can also be avoided,tanked(resistance) or transferred. Honestly the only “worrying” scenario would be PvE something will happen to those conditions before,while and after they are ticking in either PvP or WvW. They should have found a compromise by now due to flawed PvE.

The idea is nice but I liked the original concept of higher risk=higher healing but if that is the last option oh well.

Tora.7214:

Depends on build, the problem is that most thieves still havent get out of the berzerker stats meta, thats why they keep being destroyed

I decided to move away from it and made 2 different builds with my daredevil, trying to play it the way arenanet seems to seems them by the new dodge mechanics and DD runes

And im having a total blast

For pvp i use an evasion conditions based build with dire stats (carrion in spvp) with d/d and lotus training wich just destroys anyone that isnt using a trap/wells based build. Great survability, massive condition cleanse, 90% evasion uptime, 30+ aoe bleed stacks and great hp regen thanks to the synergy of lotus and blosson with SoM. Played well no class outside the mentioned above can kill you; they will wave their arms trying to hit you as you fly around them bleeding them to death

The second build i made was for daily pve content wich uses soldier armor/wep with berzerker accesories, sigils of the night,sigils of accuracy, DD runes, staff +p/p or sb, result: 2.7k armor, 44% crit with prescicion signet (51% if we count the flanking trait crit Buff) 2.6k power with 18k hp; pretty survivable with its nice armor, hp, dodges when you start to see them as part of your rotacion instead of just survival tools, fast staff hits that also synergy pretty well with SoM and And still pretty nice aoe dmg with 3k bound dodges and 8k vault, 3k WC

So my suggestion is: get.out of the friking berserker meta, berserker thief is dead, puff kaput, play DD thief as it.was created.to be played.and you will see how fun and powerfull class is

In short buy HoT and play DD.

Jana.6831:

Sagat.3285:

Anything works in WvW and PvE.

Depends on what you’re doing – if running with a zerg, well, good luck but you can do a lot of damage. If you’re the +1 you might be helpful. 1 vs 1? forget it.

In PvE I use DA, CS, T and have troubles with conditions pretty often. That might be different if I had a really good party to do dungeons and fractals but I haven’t. So I change from DA to SA in fraktals and hope for the best in some dungeons.

Truly depends but in zergs venom share is alright open PvE well you set your difficulties anything can still work.

Anything works in WvW and PvE.

Wait so in summary this thread is trying to encourage us to buy HoT and keep quiet? I don’t see what’s in there that makes up for CiS at GM level if you do tell me.

Jekkt.6045:

Sagat.3285:

Jekkt.6045:

shave 250 toughness off minstrel and add it as precision.

That ruins the point you don’t see zerker amulet with toughness…remove the boon duration and bring it back.

the boon duration is already there to cut vitality…

otherwise the amulet would be full nomads.

With full defense possible there is more desire for for full damage players since bruisers won’t kill it. It’s conquest a bunker or bruiser oriented will always make most of the meta you decide how many damage ones you want to see.

Jekkt.6045:

shave 250 toughness off minstrel and add it as precision.

That ruins the point you don’t see zerker amulet with toughness…remove the boon duration and bring it back.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Shadowstep.6049:

besides only person from Anet that is supposely playing thief is Ruby who is “OH SO EXCITEDDDDDDDDDD” to mash golems with staff all day -_-

I literally hate that woman. She serves absolutely no purpose.

Haha I’m wrong for laughing at this.

Morwath.9817:

LastHope.8127:

Gizmorage.6412:

LastHope.8127:

would be fair if other classes would have acces to chill does damage too.

wow, unbelievably good logic here. hey why don’t we also give necros invulns, cause that would only be fair. but Then we could give death shroud to thieves cause reasons and then…

Youre confusing unique game mechanics to a condition….

It’s unique game mechanic basicaly, same as traitable damage on Fear. However damage ticks on Chill are like a bad joke, they hit as hard as Terror, while Chill last for eternity.

And how is Terror doing right now…? Much effectiveness right?

Dhuumfire is terrible on base necro.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

How we make a class that has so much stealth/mobility be balanced? I feel like it being UP in fights is a good trade off for the map control they offer.

I can’t come up with a way to make thief be amazing without it causing cancerous cells to form.

This comes up so many times it’s not even funny anymore seriously stop it. You improve what doesn’t provide that mobility and stealth I mean it’s not like we have just two weapon sets,1 set of utility and 3 required lines…is it?

SA traits are not fine.

SA was nerfed…

Axialbloom.8109:

Thieves, Elementalists and Guardians are Karl’s professions. The three that were patched today were Robert’s, so maybe Karl is still working on his.

Yeah right…This holds no value until we see anything relevant not just increase damage on this and go back to the couch.

Muchacho.2390:

Xecil.2798:

Weakening Shroud has the bonus of crits giving weakness, so it has a purpose outside of shroud as well, which is something that Spiteful Spirit could use.

Going by that logic of weakening shroud… It should give retal on getting hit with a icd?

I’d prefer cripple or boon corruption on hit honestly. They could make it a hybrid and add additional direct and condition damage to crippled foes or under the effect of retaliation.

Serious Thought.5394:

The 0 response to major crisis is fun. We are worse than warrior, but they got buffed. Bright side, first patch in a while with 0 nerfs. Counts for something right?

Undocumented changes?