I don’t gvg, not my thing, please give gvg there own area to kitten around in so its no longer in the wvw forums, that way they have the balanced large scale fights they want and can still do wvw any other time.
as for the BL buff, its a good enough buff to be worth fighting for, this makes it so people actually fight for it instead of karma train down undefended structures. It was easy enough to have a few havoc squads take and keep the points and the buff changed hands often.
Don’t do it, leave the points as is, if anything just add wxp consumables to loot bags.
if you do add wxp to the points please make it a split amongst all the people on the point. Yeah people will kitten if someone ganks some of there wxp by jumping on a turning point but its the only way to keep the karma train from just running the points over. Not everything in this game needs to be zerg friendly.
you have your keeps and we roamers have our playground now. dont see the problem at all.
well considering that wvw is not a roaming based game. the keeps have to be improved. the structures are way to easy to get into. they have not been improved at all. a new castle instead of the playground would have been way better accepted in our community.
roaming once in a while can be fun for a lot of us, but the majority in here likes gvg and zvz battles.
we want epic battles and sieging, not a 1 thief ganking a person that is running supply kinda style.
speak for yourself, I know a lot of people who prefer roaming and small skirmish fights, taking small objectives, guards and supply camps didn’t fill this niche mainly because its to lucrative for the karma train to roll them over. These new points give no reward for capture and will become less appealing for the zerg farmers. Keeps and towers could use a rework and that will take time, for now we got an area where roamers can play and they did not remove the areas that zergers play. Its a start.
Most of the zergs couldn’t even follow me tonight, I was ducking in the small alleyways and circling behind them to pick off stragglers, I got caught a few times but had way more kills then you would before the new map. Maybe its being in a balanced teir (1) but the buff changed hands so much it wasn’t even an issue.
I was thinking something different, what if the stat buff stayed but well you where under the effects of bloodlust you where worth 1 point per stack when stomped (removing the stomp bonus from the person with BL to the person with out it), people say the losing team needs something thrown there way, well this makes BL a double edge sword yes you get bonus stats but at the same time if you die you give points to your enemy.
In this thread people get mad at a company for being a company!
PvE pays for the game, pve will always come first.
Spvp is getting support to become an export, if anet adds difrent modes to play in this may happen, this can also make money.
wvw is an extension of pve and a casual game mode no matter how much we want it to be more then that, sadly it will never get the attention of the other two. What we have to do is voice what we want and hope that they listen and have the staff to do it.
Of course there is. People just need to transfer down. They won’t though, because WvW is scurry without zergs!
nope, no one is going to pay money to move off a server that they are established on, been on sor since it was a tier 6 server, have a good guild of friends since daoc, no one wants to move servers and restart guild unlocks and pay anet at the same time.
want to spread the population out, offer to transfer whole guilds intact with unlocks to a different server for free, and that may fix it. (until a big wvw guild takes a low rank server to the top smashing ever match up on the way and picking up new bandwagoners).
Increase the time needed to res well in combat and limit rally to one for one (one up for one downed). Also remove the ability to res off of pve mobs well engaged in combat with a player. That would help a bit.
Or in daoc when it was a thing to have everyone use aoe buffs during a relic raid to crash the server, yeah no skill lag but if you flooded the server with to much to process it just crashed.
not to justify skill lag, its infuriating and I want it to go away, but lets not use old games that also had issues as a bench mark. I want it to be better then what we had and right now its not, its just different.
Having played both DaoC and Warhammer, I want to point out some people have poor memories, both games had culling and lag, sometimes both at the same time, daoc even had load lag and you could use that as an indicator of where the zerg was hehe.
I have to ask, is the thief the most dangerous class in the game right now?
I know these days, I actually prefer seeing a thief over a necro, engi, warrior or guardian. If they D/P, I just ignore them because frankly they have little chance to kill me.
The problem is when you can totally outplay a person but they can practically disengage and reset the fight at will. Thieves can do this and mobility warriors can do this. Both are stupid and should have never been allowed to happen.
A necro, engi, and a guardian don’t have a very good chance of escaping a fight they are going to lose. There is much higher risk running solo with those classes than there is for a thief or a cheese-mobility warrior.
and some classes are way better at bunker condition build and some classes are better at group support and some classes are better in large scale fights, should they not be allowed? Should we make all the classes the same?
We can balance this, just need a way to see thru stealth…………………and dispel clones, drain adrenalin, dispell pets, drain life force, lock out kits, lock out elements, etc.
think before you talk, you want a hard counter to one classes ability then we need them for all.
@jinks, I play on SoR, moved there after the crash of HoD back when SoR was a middleing tier (tier 6?), played when the orbs where in the game too, orbs didn’t bother me then either, the fact that they could be exploited by a single thief was the real problem.
as for balance in wvw, its never going to happen, be it numbers or just a gimmikie game mechanic that enters the meta, I mean look right now, hammer warriors or bunker condition necros are not op as a build, but if you stack multiples of the same build/class together they become stupidly difficult to deal with. That is why wvw is not the place to try and balance around.
the best balance I would ever hope for in wvw is the ability to acquire gear on par and at a comparable rate to our pve brethren, this way I could log in and play the parts of the game I like playing with out having to do the parts that bore me.
See this is just another gvg thread labeled as something else, @op if they have the tech for wvw and the tech for custom arenas then its not to hard to think that tdm maps for guilds would be that hard to do. If that will happen is up to anet. Also everyone who plays gvg assumes it has a huge following in this game, I literally never here anything about gvg besides they same people on these forums saying everyone loves and watches it. I tried watching it, hammer warriors and blast combos hide any nuances of the game behind a wall of particle effects. As for the stat buff from orb meh what ever, it has as much of a chance to kill my unsupported meta (5 man roaming) as it does yours (gvg) its a bonus but so is the passive health from PPT and buffs from wvw rank, or the wild swings you get in stats from builds, gear, foods and on kill sigils, you just deal with it and be the better player.
the only thing I really agree with is that wvw is to reliant on siege and taking keeps then it is on defeating your enemy in battle, that’s why I like the addition of the point for spiking from the orb buff.
See the problem with the op is you talk in absolutes like everyone agrees with you. I for one do both wvw and spvp, I prefer smaller open field battles in wvw and well I would like to see anet stop encouraging the zerg I understand that its not everyone’s opinion and some people like giant fights. I also think the new orb buff is a good idea wvw is going to be imbalanced and if the new points did not give a buff no one would fight for them, or worse it would give karma and wxp and just become another stop on the karma train.
as for spvp, the only thing holding back is the lack of diversity in the objectives. This is something people talked about in beta and I think its something that is going to change.
as for gvg, not really my thing but if people really want it the tech is there for custom arenas so I don’t know why they can’t just make a custom tdm arena where the amount of people can be set from 10v10 to 50v50 and guilds could go have at it when they want.
Well I’m not a huge fan of a stat buff, and I could care less about gvg (its not that I am against it just a what ever to me), I don’t see how people think this does not break up a zerg, the key to zerging is smashing one point with over whelming numbers, the mechanics of these new points does not work well with that, even if you zerg the points and then leave a token defense it will still turn it to small skirmish fights between the token defense and small roaming groups, add to that if you do zerg it you will lose the ppt game to the other zergs, also since a lot of zergs are karma and wxp trains I don’t see it being popular to capture points that are worth neither of them.
I ser the complaints about the coverage game and how this does nothing for it but I think at this point it is obvious that 24 hour coverage is not a concern of the dev team, its an unbalance that will just be part of the game.
I also think that this makes roaming groups just a good thing to have, we can still do our thing but now it will even more so directly effect the battle, we can fight for the smaller buff points and when we have it the stomps we preform will directly add to ppt. Again I don’t see the need for a stat buff but maybe a buff that adds an increase to wxp gains from kills from stomps only so a stomp would give ppt and a small bonus of wxp.
What I will add to this thread is kicking a little money CUs way to get it funded is one of the best ways to get other companies to know they need to up there game in the three realm battle meta. Money talks and if enough people show that what we have isn’t good enough (by backing something else) companies will need to adapt. (See WoW for adapting to trends they have done it well for years)
I agree with you on most things you said, the game it self is a solid platform and the class balance is not nearly as wildly unbalanced as most games in the past. My problem is not with the game play or classes as much as it is with the idea of non competitiveness in a pvp environment. The everyone gets a cookie set up of wxp, Karma, xp etc is great in pve but not so in wvw. So for me it’s not mechanics its a conflict of ideals.
By the way, I dot remeber if you played DaoC or not but I was Shump and Samhayn from Ravens of the Veil. Tell Olaf I said hi.
Why trumpet the virtues of unreleased games? (I know this is off topic, but it’s a personal pet peeve) How many times must we read how great the next game will be? 15 years now, Ooh the next mmo, sure to avoid all the Pitfalls which plague all current offerings. Always a crock, always trumpeted by the first to leave the current thing, always months of life wasted in dreary pve only to be disappointed.
GW2 is as good as it gets. Stable, balanced, well populated even after the launch rush.. This game has the potential to go on for years, slowly getting better. And that’s the truth of the situation, from a great start this game will get better slowly. Expansions don’t get made overnight. WoW wasn’t built in a day.
But only if we, the PvP community support it. Or, it can die like WAR while we stupidly move onto the next Aion or Rift. How are veteran mmo players still fooled by pve games claiming to also have “great PvP experiences”? When has a pve centric game come anywhere near satisfying? Just what about teso besides novelty and hype even makes people mention it?
But it’s not as good as it could be. It is still a pve game first with 3 real combat tacked on. It’s also zergy by design and skill lag is game stopping.
I enjoy this game and I’m not following Teso (also pve first game). I also will say that I beleave that if a game comes around that fills the three realm pvp fantasy setting in a better way you will see people leave. Anet has time to make the wvw experiance better the question is do they want to?
I’m still waiting to see someone vouch for the rangers…
I ran a duel with a ranger in wvw. 4 rounds. It was a draw.
His pets terrifying howl made me flee. It was annoying. And not to mention push back since he knew rtl was the opener. I had fun. We bowed and went our separate ways.
I have been killed by rangers no doubt, but i have yet to be killed by an engie or a necro.
Never been killed by a necro? Come to BGBL South Island with out a Zerg and I can fix that for you. I play at night 9-12 est.
The limitation in MMO’s is when you increase the number of participants, the amount of data needed to be calculated scales like crazy because everyone effects everyone else.
All that video shows is a bunch of bots walking around near each other, which represents minimal load to client and server because there isn’t much to calculate.
Yeah except it was demod again today with 1k toons, it’s not even optimized yet so it’s useing the same amount of triangles no matter how far away the toon is and it was still running smooth. It’s really just showing how well an engine can run when it’s built just for large scale conflict. So if anything this has nothing to do with GW2 since this game is in order a pve game with strong support for tpvp/spvp and lastly a wvw game.
^ What happens when groups play for PPT and not rewards? In Tier 1, rewards are an afterthought to PPT and maintaining, upgrading, and sieging our own towers. It must be radically different on smaller servers then, because in T1 it’s all about maintaining and building on the PPT.
I’m on the same server as you and I can tell you that more then a few people could give a rats butt about PPT. You as a commander my care and so do others but that is not the general rule. PPT means nothing, your servers rank means nothing, winning or losing your bracket also means nothing. So the only thing left is the battle and that’s why some of us play, it’s the battles that are fun and the larger area (compared to spvp) in the uneven fights (I don’t mean 60v5 that’s not even a fight) is why some of us play.
I understand the argument that is human nature to follow in a pack and you are right. That is why Zerg v Zerg will always happen even with out Anet overly rewarding it. This again is why people say can we stop overly rewarding (thus encouraging it) so that people will than make a choice between safety and quantity over quality for rewards vs Risk and the potential for greater/faster rewards. Some will pick the later of the two and thus break up zergs some what and even then the zergs you will see will commonly consist of guilds of 10-20 with the ocassional pug Zerg of 50 or so. This would also spread the combat out over a larger area of the map. Then again this has all been said over and over again with no response from Anet at all. This debate could just be over if someone came in and said “we want to split zergs up or no we like it as is”
The best is when you down people from separate servers and when you spike one the other rally! Man is it fun to have to kill them all over again becuase you know you killed someone else.
But like others side. Nothing is going to change. They gave lip services to breaking up zergs and changing wvw but I don’t see it happening. Nothing that has been added or changed has done anything but reinforced this type of game play. (As a side note Camelot unleashed kick starter is up)
Well I think they need to change AoE cap, I have more problems with rally. This has happened a few times to me, three way fight between me and 1jq and 1bg, kill them both, spike one, other one rallies. Come on. Also have had a fight where I drop three guys and they all rally of a pve mob or some up leveled Glass cannon who wants to get kill credit.
Downed and rally are cool and heroic in pve but unbalanced and annoying in any form of pvp.
It’s more then time to start treating wvw as its own thing and not just an extension of pve.
I dont normally make posts like this, but LOL at the 5-6 SOR that chased me for about 5 minutes just now on BGBL only to have a necro display how it is better than the 2elems and whatever else you had at escaping
Grats! They should make a title for you. Some thing like “Brave Sir Robin”
Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.
That’s the problem. Players who didn’t understand WvW, or didn’t really care much for a play style based upon strategy and objectives, but who still wanted large scale battles kept hammering ANet for “more progression”. Several of us here tried to point out the pitfalls of instituting individual achievements that disincline players to pursue team objectives, but ANet didn’t understand their own game enough to realize how badly this would undermine it. They could have put in place individual achievements that reinforced team goals, but instead they made credit based upon individual kills. That’s just stupid and it’s no wonder that now we just have mobs of players mindlessly fighting in the road for no purpose other than rank and titles. That can be fun at first, but it quickly gets boring and it for sure isn’t WvW.
We must play different games, all I see now is giant balls of people avoiding fights and running to take Objectives, 70 people to kill a road guard and flip a supply camp? Yeah every night. If anything killing someone is the slowest way to rank up. Being a roamer myself I can tell you that once someone is killed once the points they are worth afterwards is garbage.
WvW is not PvP, its siege warfare. PvP is just something that happens. You should get no Wxp for player kills. if you want xp for killing other players, go to sPvP and rank up there.
But to the OP’s question; Yes this new ranking system was not thought out well. Or they just blatantly ignored one of the top problems with WvW when creating this. The ZERG. People have been begging Anet to create more ways to make the zerg less effective since the betas. Anet says they are working on things, to appease us, but nothing ever happens…its frustrating.
I love WvW and will continue to play it for as long as I can. My only wish is that Anet would try some of the suggestions the community provides daily here. Even if only on a temporary basis, periodically. Not ever suggestion is viable, but the more simple ones, like AOE hitting 15’ish would be simple, and could be switched back in a moments notice. They have proven since Tuesday that they can through patches out faster then monthly.
Removing wxp from player kills is a awful idea and would encorage people not defend and not attack anything that was defended.
Should be in my mind
Player who has not died in a long time should be the most points followed close by upgraded and defended keep.
Defending should be slightly less but tick multiple times during a siege with a bonus if you can clear the area if enemies and keep it clear for a to be determined amount of time.
Then lowest should be road guards and players who have died recently and undefended and unupgraded keeps/towers.
Fill other objectives in as needed.
Pve mobs should be removed from wxp as they have nothing to do with wvw. Pve champs should just be removed from the map.
Yet another theme about “Stop liking things that i don’t like!”.
Guys, why you not going into sPvP? It’s all about your lovely “small group skill”. Leave WvW for WvW players.
Spvp isnt good. Team gets spilt up. Rewards are bound to spvp only so skins I earn there mean nothing. Lots of reasons.
Large scale battles can be epic, but honestly most of the time it’s zergs avoiding each other to claim easy points and only engaging in open field battles when they have a much greater advantage.
Long duration hard CC.
Super long cooldowns 30-60 minutes on some.
Death penalties and Rez sickness
Equipment that would break with use and needed to be replaced eventually.
No casting well moving, melee attacks auto interrupting casts.
The ability to run out of resource Mana/Endurance
Positional and Reactionary attack chains.
No jumping right back in the action when you wipe.
Some of these are quality of life changes to the mmorpg realm as it has become more mainstream but like I said most people who started with games like WoW would find these thing punishing where some of us older guys miss some of that stuff.
Did DaoC have issues? kitten right class balance sucked, no questing system at first, leveling was a grind (good and bad, at least you got to know everyone on your server doing fins), gear acquisition was a pain before crafting was done. And the UI and controls are terrable by today’s standerd.
All that said, RvR was still done better in DaoC then it has been since, and taking the good ideas and what worked in an older game is not a bad thing. Mythic screwed the pooch in Warhammer because they didn’t follow in there own foot steps. Anet will also not follow in DaoCs foot steps (sadly) well DaoC was player friendly in RvR for its time it is brutal by today’s mainstream standerds.
Well I don’t currently play my Thief I can say it is a hell of a lot easier to fight them with culling fixed, I don’t even know if reveal needed to be changed. The newest tactic I have seen is Thief attacks me, gets his kitten pushed in, runs away till he can drop combat and ports out.
Dear JQ, according to BG we have a truce and I for one I’m really disappointed that during said truce you decided to have a 70 man Zerg camp our spawn point in BgBL well also leaving a small group watching Bay for when the treb finally took down the wall. I do not think this is how we are supposed to treat each other. To that end I will say I’m sorry myself for taking the back way out of my spawn and picking off anyone silly enough to leave the blob.
Or maybe people just see what they want to see to make themselves feel better.
You can roam as a necro, I run axe/focus with knights everything save weapons (zero on them) and I can come out on top more often then not 1v1 and 2v1 (or 5v2 since I run with a friend a lot).
But if you want to rank up and get free loots just get a staff spec for it and tag away.
Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.
Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.
It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.
In fact my account is in the GoM 7 tier but this didn’t stop me from taking the account of a friend who bandwagonned to the Jade Quarry.
PPL use more siege? Yes.
PPl Now use scouts? Yes.
Still always ending in 2 big zergs.
The whole point of WvW is to have large armies battle it out. Of course this is going to end up with large armies battling it out.
I can’t picture an army of 5 going to a castle in ancient times and taking a castle. Obviously this is not real but it is based on the premise that you need an army to siege a castle/tower/keep. Camps on the other hand are meant to be taken by small groups.
I’m sure you didn’t see people building castles and towers with in siege distance either.
Being on tier 1 also (SoR) I had much the same feeling last night. I would get small scale fights now and then followed by a frame rate drop as the Zerg came into clipping range. With the culling fix at least I can see my kitten and have a chance to run first. But yeah right now with new content it seems like its just extra zergy right now but extra bonus I now get rng with my action bar! Maybe it will work maybe it won’t!
WvW players out number all other aspects of this game. Only PvE has a chance to beat out WvW players. Remember tho most PvE’ers WvW, but there are tons of WvWers who don’t PvE.
no, whatever I do outnumbers every other aspect, because I’m the most important person and what I do, everybody has to be doing, couldn’t be any other way….
/sarcasm
have you ever considered that the few hundred persons per server at peak times (because, if you didn’t know it, there’s a limit on how many people may wuvwuv at one time) are outnumbered by far by the pve players who have no limitations at all.
So we should lock those few hundred players (per server so more like a couple thousand) out of “cool” looking armor skins? Why because they choose wvw as there end game instead of dungeons? If wvw got unique skins pve only people would lose there kitten. So no unique skins for wvw I understand that. What I don’t understand is not making dungeon skins available from badges.
dungeon skins are,
DUNGEON skins. It doesnt make sense to offer dungeon skins to WvWvW players because those skins are specifically created to and are the main if not only real purpose in running dungeons.
now i wouldnt be opposed to Unique WvW skins, and i havent seen what type of selection they have, but really they should never put dunegeons skins in WvW UNLESS they make some sort of WvWvW versions of those dungeons with PVP in it.
Here is the thing. I would love unique armor skins for wvw. The legions of pve’rs on the other hand would freak out and cry an ocean on the forums. Doesn’t matter if it gave no benefit out of it other then looks they would cry that they are now “forced” to pvp (see map completion and gift of battle crying we already have). My point being why is it ok to give all of the nice things to pve’rs (ascended, dungeon skins, more stat combos even with today’s patch, etc) but not to pvpers (armor skins locked to spvp/limited in wvw, no ascended, etc). It’s a double standerd that was said from the start would not happen in this game.
So either let us have unique skins in wvw and let pve’rs be upset or let wvw players get dungeon skins with the badges they have earned thru countless hours of play.
WvW players out number all other aspects of this game. Only PvE has a chance to beat out WvW players. Remember tho most PvE’ers WvW, but there are tons of WvWers who don’t PvE.
no, whatever I do outnumbers every other aspect, because I’m the most important person and what I do, everybody has to be doing, couldn’t be any other way….
/sarcasm
have you ever considered that the few hundred persons per server at peak times (because, if you didn’t know it, there’s a limit on how many people may wuvwuv at one time) are outnumbered by far by the pve players who have no limitations at all.
So we should lock those few hundred players (per server so more like a couple thousand) out of “cool” looking armor skins? Why because they choose wvw as there end game instead of dungeons? If wvw got unique skins pve only people would lose there kitten. So no unique skins for wvw I understand that. What I don’t understand is not making dungeon skins available from badges.
Some good changes but still makes Zerg > all. Culling is gone but with the meta still being about numbers you will now be able to see the enemies well waiting for your insta cast skills to go off.
Need to see what skins and stats are available for badges before I make an judgement on that. Dungeon skins would be cool but if its just the stuff available from temples then it was kinda a waste since anyone who wvws should have more then enough karma to buy that.
Also need to see the costs on the new badge gear. The pvt gear is outlandishly priced for anyone just getting into wvw and well some of us are sitting on badges we have to relies we have had seven months to stock up.
I think with the new guild mission you will see people not moving. Maybe large guilds will but mid to small sides guilds will not want to start over with unlocking.
