Guild Wars 2

I also play a thief and I will say this. Stealth does not need to be nerfed, culling needs to be fixed BUT in the mean time we should most likely increase the revealed debuff to make up the difference in load times till said time that culling is fixed.

We also need to have something done with mesmers disappearing when they make a clone, it’s supposed to be a blink like ability but due to culling it can take 2-3 secs before thy reappear its like a free stealth with no revealed debuff.

Also dagger 5 c&d needs to be changed, not so much because its OP but its so good oh dagger is nearly a main stay in any Thief build and over shadows other oh options.

I think we suffer from a few general problems like toughness not scaling well vs damage (I know this is hard to balance with other classes having blocks,sort cooldown blind and aegis), mid range weapons are a little in the weak side for almost all who have them, and it’s hard to make a power/ tough build in spvp due to the fact the knights gives +vit instead if tough for spvp.

Biggest Boon would have to be DS and how well we can control an area with wells.

I run solo or small groups in wvw. Power/tough axe/focus build.

When your solo you can kill most people 1v1 minus the following confussion/condition mesmers that clone a lot. They drop target so much that its near impossible to kill them. D/d ele well I don’t die to them they can run at any time. P/d thief becuase again they drop target a lot and wear you down.

The only other problem you’ll run into but it’s to be expected with how Tanky we are is escaping is not really an option. Once your in the fight your commited.

Wvw is pve, pve and spvp are separate and I think Anet did too good a job of seperating them. I think this is part of the reason that spvp has not taken off. I think if I could group with my friends and earn wep/armor skins throu spvp I may actualy play it for more then build testing.

Svarty.8019:

Pendragon.8735:

I make money in PvE to WvW. It’s true you can make some slow steady money in WvW, but usually only if you buy no siege, which is in other words, being a drag on your teammates.

You shouldn’t be able to earn more in WvW than in PvE because people would come to WvW to farm gold – I guess that might not be as bad as I thought it was when I started typing this.

But wvw is pve, just with less revenue, more repair bills, less gear, less progression, really hard to get titles and Way more fun.

Lost me at Bro.

I’m not even much of a pver and I still think I’m down for a chicken run.

enji.7459:

Sorry, for some people a title over their head and new armor looks are last on the list of things to fix in wvw. Personally, those things matter zero to me and just because I think supply perks aren’t going to help draw people to continue playing doesn’t mean I want overpowered skills or anything like that. Culling, bug fixes, wvw mechanics working instead of simply removed (orbs anyone?!), and things that actually improve game play are what I am waiting to hear about. If they just implement titles and armor skins and skills like extra supply and don’t actually address the issues people have been griping about people will be even more disappointed imo.

Adding a progression system does not take away people from doing what your asking also.

Culling is a server issue and is being worked on by the tech team

Orbs are an issue with the maps being explotable and they have map designers to work On that (I hope they are working on it at least)

Other bugs are worked on by other teams.

Now I’m with you that the things that effect wvw need to be moved up in priority but we will have to see.

As long as titles and armor skins are also on the list of things we get I’m cool, little passive increases like carrying more supply are a good way to progress with out power creep.

It’s not mitigated by toughness. So no crits but no passive mitigation either.

@ timespace

Yeah the thief has a build that counters a general warrior build. That thief is also nearly useless in group combat and brings no group utility. Unlike the warrior he is countering. Hence give and take.

Master of Timespace.2548:

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Explain me how to beat a semi-decent p/d thief as a mesmer. Well lets say a rather good p/d thief who generally doesn’t do stupid mistakes.

Next you can explain me how to beat him as a warrior. :P I also challenge you to not just explain, but also to prove that your explain is correct (duel a p/d thief who is known to be very good).

I don’t play a Mesmer you would need to find someone who does. I also don’t run p/d or d/d on my thief. I use sword/dagger and short bow (when I play it. running necro at the moment )

But my buddy runs a condition Mesmer and eats p/d for lunch but has a hard time with d/d. On my axe/focus power necro I eat d/d well having a harder time with p/d. It’s a bit of give in take with builds. I also don’t play a warrior but will tell you that hammer warriors rule.

That’s the thing thou. There are plenty of people out there that like me play more then one class and know counters you just need to look for them.

I see you edited your post, so let me get this straight I need to find a build for two classes that is useful in general and also good at killing select builds? Then I need to share this perfect build with everyone? Well when I find out how to go 30/30/30/30/30 and have all my utilities on my bar I will be here in a flash letting everyone know.

SoPP.7034:

I don’t think that people should have to plan, strategise, use specific gear, skills, traits and armour all to survive one profession. That’s game breaking.

You have to trait and plain to remor conditions. You have to trait and plain to deal with range if your melee and melee if your range. The same things that help you vs GC thief help you vs any GC class.

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Get some Tough, I run 1900, use axe 3 to get retaliation, he needs to be on you to do damage, drop a well and stand in it, when he is out of stealth use focus 4 and axe 2 both will hit him even if he stealths. He should be dead by now wait till be reappears and stomp him.

What this video high lights is the true power of AoE confusion fields + blast finishers + AoE cc.

Yes RG had awesome condition removel and more often then not I beleave that was the thing that won the battle.

The problem isn’t with the play its with the shear amount of particul effects that keep you from seeing most of what’s going on.

I hate my armor and think it should be punished.

Really for me it’s roaming pvp, not knowing who what or how many are around the next bend has a thrill to it you can’t find is spvp.

Magnetron.5823:

I agree, thiefs rule in WvW.. i have never seen a more powerfull class that deals that much damage in just 6 strikes in 3 seconds.

3400 toughness and still down in 6 hits, and the thief only presses 1 skill.

I thought this game was skill based.

I call shenanigans, I run 1940 tough on my necro and can ignore thief well I kill his buddy then turn and kill him too. Did you cc or dodge at all? Come on man even if thief is over powered making kitten up is not helping you.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Lets not punish zerging it’s a viable tactic in large scale pvp but we can stop incentivizing it.

As for the you don’t like Zerg go spvp crowd. That’s bull kitten and you know it. Running with a small group in a large map and fighting groups like yours or Zerg busting is a tried and true part of large scale pvp and has been for years. So please stop. We all know at the moment the mechanics in this game favor the Zerg far to much and need to be changed to even it out. Like I said don’t punish but please stop rewarding that style of play.

Truely it’s not even Zerg but just greater numbers in general that are over rewarded and its mainly that way becuase of the Rez system in this game. I got in a fight solo vs five people, does it matter that they where bad and I dropped two of them out of the gate? Nope because I couldn’t stomp both of them at once so well I was stomping one the people mass rezzed the other guy. No way for me to interrupt the Rez since I was stuck in stomp animation and no resources spent by them to actualy get the guy back up. If anything a change to rezzing and a change to AoE could greatly change how useful small groups of players could effect that battlefield (for real world reference think seal team or air borne units).

Columba.9730:

Majik.8521:

Retrospek.4583:

A proper proposal to fix the problems with thieves in my opinion would be that not only does outgoing damage break stealth, but also incoming damage breaks stealth.

stealth breaking on damage taken would just kill the thieves.

i still believe the best solution is to apply revealed debuff every time they come out of stealth.

No it wouldn’t. Every other game has this. There’s no reason this game shouldn’t.

If stealth didn’t last 4 secs and precast and channeled spells didn’t track you when you went stealth then maybe it should break on damage. Your trying to apply mechanics that are used against thief classes that have a stealth skill that is full time and make it work on short duration stealths. Won’t work.

Really fix culling, then if need be balance stealth. As of right now I have shelved my thief and main my necro and I have no problem fighting thief at all. I still think people need to play the class and once they do they will see not only how to counter the class but get to experiance the joy of all the bugs that the class has.

But then again I need to remember who I’m talking to. Just look at your post history you find a way to complain about thief no matter what the subject is.

Sorry it’s my fault SoR has been falling behind was busy leveling my Necro since guard and thief are so face roll (according to the forums). I’m back now so no supply camp is safe!

All kidding aside I feel like the magical ppt and small world bonuses are not really enough of a drive to keep people going. Sure I love WvW but what’s the reason to lose sleep and spend all my time sinking gold into it with nothing to show but a stack of badges? No cool title or armor skins or weapon skins nada. So like many others I play to have fun win or lose makes not a difference to me or the server.

Maybe come March this will change, having some form of personal progression title,skin,etc is at least a way to show your dedication and all that you accomplish towards your progression can’t be wiped out just because your server had to go to bed.

I also hope they add sickle as a 1h weapon at some time.

As for lore there where war scythes heavier blade that came to a point for punching thru armor. They also could be used to hook legs and knock people over. But yes the blade was mounted to stick forward more then the side. So Vuln and knockdown would be good choices for attacks

I would love to have a 2h melee weapon for Necro, we actualy have the survival skills to do it.

Rukia.4802:

There is a problem when you can gear up in WoW 50x faster than you can get full exotics in GW2.

For a game that isn’t supposed to have grind it sure has the most I’ve ever seen. So… from what I’ve gathered in the replies in this thread, as long as the journey isn’t difficult it’s considered casual? So even if it takes you months to get exotics that’s casual? Lol.

I would consider myself a casual player (week nights after kids go to bed very rarely weekends) and I have 2 80s full exotic and a 77 with a full set of gear waiting in the bank. My theif has all but two crafting professions capped. Also have a ton of wvw badges and karma jugs sitting in bank. So I have a hard time seeing what your having a problem with.

I don’t know what most people do but I can keep 15/25 stacks of Vuln up the whole fight and combo of wells is awesome. Plus I can maintain Afro and tank it up for a long time plus self healing is goo with locust life tap, consume condition, dagger two, and focus regen.

Leaving in wvw with necro becomes way easier post 55 with three stat gear of your level, before then it’s a bit of a bear.

As my sig says I have a guard and thief at 80, I have a necro at 70 at the moment and he is a beast. I would say necro but be warned once you commit to a fight with a necro you are all in. I was used to this from my guard but seeing you only have a thief you are used to being able to get away. Not really an option with the necro. That said the necro has way more staying power so sticking it out isn’t really a bad thing.

Well we all know that the high tiers of wvw are a coverage war. The only thing I can tell you is to ignore the score. Do you get good fights during the hours that you play? That’s what matters.

Right now I had been passing on wvw to level an alt and becuase well culling may have gotten better for some I was not one of them and being run over by an invisible army is not what I call fun. Also I think tier 1 is to zergy (because it has to be) maybe march will help break it up a bit and we will have more small groups to fight (would also help my culling).

Teamkiller.4315:

Although I think if they remove AOE caps they should also remove boon caps as well.

Meh with in limits maybe I mean heal on boon guard would be unkillable then. Lots of balance changes would need to be done.

Depends on what you want.

Mesmer is bad kitten /p>

Hammer warrior is no slouch when in a group.

Thief is good solo/small party.

Guardian can be a beast with boon stacking and damage

D/D ele is FotM worthy ATM.

I mean anything can be good depending if it jives with you.

Elthurien.8356:

Samhayn.2385:

Your average assualt style rifle has 16 rounds so that 80 shots, no one has 100% accuracy, just an FYI. Sometimes shear numbers beat training and superior fire power.

That’s from one roamer to anouther.

The good ones use 30 :p and the psychological impact of 5×30 bullets whizzing and cracking through the air and splattering blood, faecal matter and brains all over the farmers would be enough to stop them in their tracks long enough to reload the next clip. AoE with no cap has a similar psychological impact on a zerg, the trained will adapt and overcome, the untrained will panic and scatter.

Depends on why the people are fighting really, cornered animal and all that. But that besides the point.

Yes removing or upping the limit on AoE would help a lot but you would also have to add in the fall off effect where the farther from the center of the ae you are the lea damage you take (in the case of range AoE, pbaoe is a risk reward thing). They may also need to bring the damage down due to overlapping AoE also. But that’s what testing is for.

Your average assualt style rifle has 16 rounds so that 80 shots, no one has 100% accuracy, just an FYI. Sometimes shear numbers beat training and superior fire power.

That’s from one roamer to anouther.

tagnut.8621:

Kakeru.2873:

tagnut.8621:

Anyone complaining about zergs is an idiot.

You want small scale – go play s(illy)pvp. I bought this game for one reason and one reason only – large scale battles. And since the culling change (which incidentally is much much much better for me) we’ve had them non stop – massive 3 way fights lasting 5, 10, 15 minutes.

If you’re whining about zergs you’re in the wrong game.

Wow! hahahah this is the post of someone who clearly has no experience of how WvW (RvR) is gone right. Oh god i feel sorry for the person at the end of this post.

O rly….

So this having no experience of rvr eh? Most of the opponenets I’m fighting in largescale wvwvw I’ve fought before in 3 or 4 mmos previously.

RvR done right = DAOC large scale. RvR done wrong = WOW, especially arenas.

WvWvW is the closest I’ve come to DAOC – it ain’t DAOC but its not bad. Now their were a small minority of idiots who thought rvr in DAOC was finding somewhere out of the way to run 8v8 teams at each other and that was fine, they amused themselves. Now the rest of us really enjoyed massive large scale fights and sieges. Warhammer tried and failed badly due to atrocious management.

Unfortunately their seem to be a minority of idiots here who think that wvwvw should revolve around their 2 or 3 or 5 man teams and squeal zerg when it doesn’t go the way they like.

Yeah but that small band of idiots like you called us where able to, take keeps hold mile walls and wipe the floor with the zergs with tac-tic (for people who remeber the vn boards). I’m glad I played on a server where the Zerg actualy worked with and appreciated the roaming groups and didn’t have people calling us idiots like you just did.

That said you at least notice that DaoC did something right and you also know that RP where split amongst all the groups that hit the target and split by damage done by said group. This at least rewarded small group play well at the same time we still had zergs running around. It worked 11 years ago and with the rank system coming to gw2 I see no reason it would not work now.

Shump ChickenEater, Firbolg Warden of Ravens of the Veil, Percival.

tagnut.8621:

Anyone complaining about zergs is an idiot.

You want small scale – go play s(illy)pvp. I bought this game for one reason and one reason only – large scale battles. And since the culling change (which incidentally is much much much better for me) we’ve had them non stop – massive 3 way fights lasting 5, 10, 15 minutes.

If you’re whining about zergs you’re in the wrong game.

Ok so your play style is already rewarded in spades. You enjoy this and for that I’m glad. Games are mean to be enjoyed.

So some of us want to run havoc/small man groups becuase that’s the type of open world pvp we enjoy. Taking on other small groups harassing the Zerg and swooping I. To hit teams from the back in a pincher move. So we ask to maybe recognize this form of play and reward it in its own way.

So explain to me how having my style of play rewarded much like your style is rewarded would in anyway effect you negatively?

If you really look at most posts it’s not the Zerg most people hat it’s more of the fact that the Zerg is over incentivized, for all the reasons you stated and then some.

What myself and others would like is a reward for playing in smaller groups so with the upcoming changes it would be nice if points are split to all involved meaning if you run with a smaller group you are splitting points to a smaller pool compared to the Zerg.

It would be the only thing in WvW that worked this way becuase right now if 5 people take a supply camp they get (made up numbers inc) 1k xp, 1k karma and 1 silver, if 50 people take the same camp (way easier for them btw) they all get 1k xp, 1k karma, 1 silver. And that is the biggest problem with the system, rewards do not scale to match the true difficulty to the task done and since its safer to Zerg and you are rewarded just as much why would you not?

But you add one system, just one that works differently and it would just be a nice way to say, look we know small groups are out there and this is for them.

Ninein.4782:

People have to remember that radar made 8man teams popular in DAOC. It was easy to farm anyone who weren’t using radar software cheat due to having CC’s with long duration and no player limit. Plus it allowed 8 man teams to avoid any fight they don’t want to get involved. This allowed them to shoot up the ranks and get even stronger. Win win all around so there was a strong incentive in DAOC to play 8 man teams.

I never ran radar in DaoC and never needed too. I was part of one of the most well know. 8 mans on hib percival.

If people are worth a set amount of points and the points get split evenly by the group no matter who does the damage then You will see smaller groups in wvw. If you get a set amount of points per kill no matter what then you will see more zerging. It’s all about how it’s implemented.

Example for people who need to see it, target is worth 100 points when killed. 5 man kills target everyone in group gets 20 points. Zerg kills same target target is hit by people from 3 groups that’s 15 people know splitting the same 100 points so that’s about 6 points per person.

But it everyone got 100 points for a kill and didn’t have it split then there is no reason not to Zerg. (Don’t do this Anet)

I think we already overly reward the Zerg, fixed karma and do rewards for objectives, easier to Rez harder to spike zerglings, AoE limits that reward standing close together.

So maybe it’s time to reward the other play styles in wvw a bit, it’s not like zerging will stop just becuase it become rewarding for small groups to wvw also.

It has to be based on kills. PPT and Karma are already there to incentives taking points if you added ranking to that mix it would be come an even bigger ball of people running from point to point. We can not keep having stuff added to the game that makes zerging even more important. If we spread the people out you will have more action across the map and with less people to load it may even easy up on culling. Large groups have there place but they can not be the only thing going.

What people seem to miss is if you make it per kill based you will see more people defending, why? Easy if you own something people will already come to take it. No need to hunt when kills will come to you. You will see small groups defending points until the Zerg shows up then they will move on.

Sovta.4719:

Samhayn.2385:

Sovta.4719:

Quixal.9124:

Samhayn.2385:

Umm what?

Don’t worry, I am pretty sure Sovta is actually on our side in this debate. He making a parody of the usual elitist talk but exaggerating the snobbery and hostility to make them look bad.

Ok, explain to me WHY is agony in this game then if not for gear check?

To encourage you to join a guild and run the hardest content in the game with people you know and not pug it? Maybe some things should not be puggable?

Ok, link me some guild with 100+ active members focusing on fractals and arah. Thanks in advance.

Do your own homework.

The best part of this is people want to be elitist and pugs. How does that work anywhere but WoW? O yeah it doesn’t and that’s why everyone here is not playing wow.

Sovta.4719:

Quixal.9124:

Samhayn.2385:

Umm what?

Don’t worry, I am pretty sure Sovta is actually on our side in this debate. He making a parody of the usual elitist talk but exaggerating the snobbery and hostility to make them look bad.

Ok, explain to me WHY is agony in this game then if not for gear check?

To encourage you to join a guild and run the hardest content in the game with people you know and not pug it? Maybe some things should not be puggable?

Yes and no. Yes if you can get the ascended gear in the stat allocation that you need but it would be better to run the gear that fits your spec rather then Trying to find a way to jam ascended gear in there becuase it’s “better”

Sovta.4719:

Samhayn.2385:

Sovta.4719:

YES!!! We need this! If you think we don’t then you are noob. If someone took his time to learn to play and wants EFFICIENCY in dungeon he should not suffer by playing with noobs.

And here is the reason it should not be Implamented. Thanks for summing it up for everyone.

Thank you by showing how good are you.

Umm what?

Here is the thing, I have played a game with gear checking and gear scores and dps meters and people wanting you to have cookie cutter specs. The whole time I played it I was able to use non standerd gear (pvp gear) and a pvp spec and still out dps, not stand in fire and learn the bosses script as fast or faster then the hardcore pve expert. All this was fine in guild where people know me and how I play and accepted the fact that I did not need to be carried. The problem comes in when you want to put becuase either not enough guild members are on or they are doing something different at the time. So if I feel like running a dungeon I can but if they implement gear check I’m going to have to justify my gear and build to some guy/gal who read on some website that since I play “x” class I should have “y” build and “z” spec? kitten all that noise. The best part is I could with my non cookie spec be the one carrying the “expert” thru the dungeon becuase skill, knowledge of your class and proper timing mean way more then what spec you run.

Sorry for the wall of text but pve elitism is a hot butting issue with me.

Sovta.4719:

YES!!! We need this! If you think we don’t then you are noob. If someone took his time to learn to play and wants EFFICIENCY in dungeon he should not suffer by playing with noobs.

And here is the reason it should not be Implamented. Thanks for summing it up for everyone.

@op, well this may be your way of thanking Anet for this game I would like to take this opportunity to say Thank you and all others like you for your service and dedication. I wish you the best of luck and a fast recovery. Also I would like to thank your family for what Im sure was a hard time well you where away.

Thobek.1730:

Doomdesire.9365:

SoR only 3K away from SoS! We’re making a giant push!

sigh. SoR are becoming the new JQ… happy with just being in T1 and not winning.

/edit – before you jump down my throat someone said it on the SoS BL’s earlier today about SoS and SoR which I agree “we are both fighting against each other to be the best loser”

think about it.

Ok so we have a good three way fight, constant action in wvw and a target rich environment.

What does being in first place get us? Some pve buffs?

One can hope, I want more small group action in wvw.

Queues can be fixed by allowing “free” transfers off key servers (wvw queue an hour plus peak times) to select servers (no queue peak time).

Anything else should cost gems.

Also we need the orbs back in the border keeps, they still need to be powerful to own and they need to be hard to get requiring a organized group of people (30+) to get. Then you should need to return it to an area near you down keep. Porting and shadow stepping should make you drop the orb. Obvisouly the maps would need to change to make this happen but since the maps are already being worked on I thought I would put it out there.

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this thread: Thieves saying thieves aren’t OP. I see noone has been able to answer my question about what other class can kill in 2 hits. I rest my case.

Next up: thieves saying “guard” skill for ranger’s pets is OP.

100 blades, gc shatter mes, whirling wraith on GC guard (I have done it).

That said I think you will see a backstab and mug nerf. Not needed but will happen. No what needs to happen is a CnD nerf so you can’t chain it off objects to stay in stealth. At the same time things like pistol whip and flanking strike need to be fixed/buffed. You know why you only see pistol/dagger and dagger/dagger thief? Becuase our other options are sub par at best.

Being on SoR I would like for us to just go back to being a server that I could actualy get into wvw when I have time to play (weekdays 9-12 est)

I am disappointed that wvw changes are getting pushed back a month but at the same time I would rather it work when released then have it shoved out the door to appease the people who can’t wait.

As for ESO, so what. People saying eso will kill gw2 will be on the eso boards sayin CU will kill eso. It’s the same thing on all the time with every game.

Gw2 may not be the best mmo for everyone but its the best one for me. I think I. The end that’s what matters most.

Gentlemen start your zerglings!!!

Maybe this week I can get some leveling done in wvw with my roaming/havoc group since we will have things we don’t own.

You got run over becuase you happened to be there. WvW is a pvp zone and going there is like sighning a consent form. O and you drop loot when we kill you!